NationStates Jolt Archive

No, no, no. This is not about what kind of believe is the right one, and it's not about atheists either. I know you don't believe in god because there is no evidence, and that's ok.
My question is to those who do believe in god. As there really is no evidence, just a number of very old books, why do you believe in god, what makes you believe? Could you imagine yourself waking up one day doubting god's existence? Or his continued interest in mankind and it's morality?

No, no, no. This is not about what kind of believe is the right one, and it's not about atheists either. I know you don't believe in god because there is no evidence, and that's ok.
My question is to those who do believe in god. As there really is no evidence, just a number of very old books, why do you believe in god, what makes you believe? Could you imagine yourself waking up one day doubting god's existence? Or his continued interest in mankind and it's morality? Yes. I do often. My faith has survived, though. Can't write more.

Yes. I do often. My faith has survived, though. Can't write more.

Thanks for answering. I thought this topic would draw more attention than that. Oh well...

really i just find it hard to believe that 'life' was just some sort of freak accident. i just belive that there has to be some sort of guiding force that made this world. maybe not the generally accepted version of a 'god' but something

Well the thing about faith is that it, well, requires faith. Even if there's no evedence. End topic.

My question is to those who do believe in god. As there really is no evidence, just a number of very old books, why do you believe in god, what makes you believe?

I believe in the *possibility* of life of such a nature we would consider them gods. My basis for this are the facts that

a. we exist
b. less developed lifeforms exist
c. the universe is a pretty big place

I consider the assumption that we are the supreme creation of evolution which can not be improved somewhat ridiculous, not to mention arrogant.
I also believe it possible that there is a "God, The Creator" - but consider that less likely.

Could you imagine yourself waking up one day doubting god's existence? Or his continued interest in mankind and it's morality?

"Are we alone ?". Sure, I wonder about that sometimes. However, months can easily pass without me thinking about this subject at all - both the existence and non-existence. It is not an important part of my life, just something to think about.
And I *never* understood why we should worship and follow our creator without questioning him. I do not do everything my parents want either.

In an infinite universe it's quite reasonable to assume an omnipotent being exhists.
Why one would give a toss about this ant nest we live in I can't imagine.
but in an infinite universe.......... :D

It is a question that only causes a headache, and gave me many panic attacks in my early teens. I have now decided to go through life without worry, and just see what happens at the end. I do believe somthing happpens, as an eternity of oblivion just seems... wasteful.

"Are we alone ?". Sure, I wonder about that sometimes. However, months can easily pass without me thinking about this subject at all - both the existence and non-existence. It is not an important part of my life, just something to think about.
And I *never* understood why we should worship and follow our creator without questioning him. I do not do everything my parents want either.
Months? Dude... you need a girlfriend... ASAP...

Months? Dude... you need a girlfriend... ASAP...

...dude... so do you

This is true, this is true...

*Sigh*

Months? Dude... you need a girlfriend... ASAP...

Already have one :p But why would thinking about life, the universe and everything be incompatable with ( / specifically stimulated by) a significant other ? She is more concerned with trying to convince me to become a vegetarian ;)

No reason, thats what faith is all about, believing with no reason at all, but believing nevertheless...

otherwise it would of been knowledge, which is, of course, much weaker

My question is to those who do believe in god. As there really is no evidence, just a number of very old books, why do you believe in god, what makes you believe? Could you imagine yourself waking up one day doubting god's existence? Or his continued interest in mankind and it's morality?

Which god?

Thomas Aquinas brought out my basis for belief in God. God was the "prime mover", the being who set the universal laws into motion.

Although there is no proof for God, there is also no proof that he DOESN'T exist. For how could one prove that an infinite yet invisible being exists/doesn't exist? It's a 50/50 chance, so it's down to faith. And my faith directs me to God. To try and ask for proof of God strikes me as rather odd - it's like saying 'Prove that numbers exist', someone saying 'well heres' a 7 for you' - and me saying 'Well, that's like saying when I write 'GOD' it proves that God exists'.

See my problem?

the way i see it, if there's not a God, then living a nice christian life is no loss. I prefare to wait for marriage to have sex, and all the other things. and the ten commandments wen folowed actually make life nicer and happier, so no probs folowing them either.

At end of day if there is a god, i know im going to heaven, for eternal bliss, id rather put my bets that there is god, cos if i decide to not belive, and find out there is i am gonna b stuck in hell for eternity. not good, worst thing u can imagine.
also something bout hell not many people know, the devil is in hell as a punishment, he dont control hell, his a prisoner there too!!
I KNOW GOD EXISTS, I HAVE WITNESSED MIRACLES, so no probs, i know where i stand :)

Although there is no proof for God, there is also no proof that he DOESN'T exist. For how could one prove that an infinite yet invisible being exists/doesn't exist? It's a 50/50 chance, so it's down to faith.

Not necessarily 50-50. If I were to ask the question "Are you an inhabitant of Egypt" the answer can be yes and no; but no is far more likely since most people here seem to live in the States or Europe. Two answers, but not with the same chance - just like with "does God exist".

And my faith directs me to God. To try and ask for proof of God strikes me as rather odd
It is - which is why people generally ask for a way to test if Gods exist. Which, as you pointed out, is not possible, thereby making the theory that God exists unscientific (but not necessarily wrong).

it's like saying 'Prove that numbers exist', someone saying 'well heres' a 7 for you' - and me saying 'Well, that's like saying when I write 'GOD' it proves that God exists'.

Only if you define God as something you can write down ;) I can show you seven *things* in addition to writing the number down. I can not show you God.

As I see it God, in whatever form you wish, is the easiest thing to believe in. Believing in evolution takes more faith since there's always farther you have to go back to find the original matter. The big bang theory makes sense but you'd have to break the laws of physics in order for it to be true. Scientists are trying to think of ways to do it but it takes great faith to persue. Believing in God, you just have to say 'I don't know how he did it, but he did.'

I also believe in God because I've seen things that can't be explained by science. AIDS patients on life support being released the next day after a night's prayer. Prayer from a stranger specifying exactly where and why there is pain. A man threatening harm to children unable to rise from the couch though there were no physical restraints.

thereby making the theory that God exists unscientific (but not necessarily wrong).

I don't see that science and God have to be mutually exclusive. If there is a God, he created science.

I don't see that science and God have to be mutually exclusive. If there is a God, he created science.

To be called scientific, a hypothesis needs to be testable. Since one can not test for the existance or nonexistance of God (God is omnipotent and can therefor "cheat" out of every conceivable test) his existence does not fit the criteria. Doesn't mean it is wrong, just that the label science cannot be stamped on it.

No, no, no. This is not about what kind of believe is the right one, and it's not about atheists either. I know you don't believe in god because there is no evidence, and that's ok.
My question is to those who do believe in god. As there really is no evidence, just a number of very old books, why do you believe in god, what makes you believe? Could you imagine yourself waking up one day doubting god's existence? Or his continued interest in mankind and it's morality?

I don't believe in God because of some very old books.

I believe because I've had numerous personal experiences that proved it to me.

To be called scientific, a hypothesis needs to be testable. Since one can not test for the existance or nonexistance of God (God is omnipotent and can therefor "cheat" out of every conceivable test) his existence does not fit the criteria. Doesn't mean it is wrong, just that the label science cannot be stamped on it.
what does the word 'science' mean again?

Although there is no proof for God, there is also no proof that he DOESN'T exist. For how could one prove that an infinite yet invisible being exists/doesn't exist? It's a 50/50 chance, so it's down to faith. And my faith directs me to God. To try and ask for proof of God strikes me as rather odd - it's like saying 'Prove that numbers exist', someone saying 'well heres' a 7 for you' - and me saying 'Well, that's like saying when I write 'GOD' it proves that God exists'.

See my problem?

See this is why I simply deplore trying to explain my faith, because the pseudo-arguements, like this one, of ignorant Christians are constantly thrown in my face by atheists and other non-believers. The arguement used by Zyxibule is what is called argumentum ad ignorantiam(Argument from Ignorance), it assumes that because something cannot be proven false, it is therefore true, which is fallacy. Something that hasn't been proven false should not be taken as '50/50' as was proposed above, one should objectively evalute available evidence to distinguish which of two(or more) theories is more plausible. As The Alma Mater stated above, "Two answers, but not with the same chance".

Now really truly, the 'available evidence' strongly works against many of the things in the Bible, thus working against the idea of there being a God. Honestly I've worked pretty hard just to manage a stalemate in debates against atheists when it comes to this issue. If you're a Christian trying to give 'proof' of what you believe in, you're in for a long time and you'll more than likely end up talking in circles. Quite frankly Christian faith is scientifically insane, I just happen to like that type of insanity; at least I'm a Christian who can admit that.

i believe because it gives me a peace that no other things make sense and im happiest there with my God

Amongst the many definitions in Websters and the Oxford Dictionary, there is this little gem: "Knowledge, especially that gained through experience."

Of course then we get in to metaphysics, as all experience is essentially subjective, not objective.

Science is rationality. However, rationality is only a part of our life experience. THe irrational, the emotional, the illogical is also part of our life, and a far larger part than the rational. Rational science would in fact be impossible without irrational belief and imagination. It was a belief in the idea that there must be fundamental laws that drove Newton to formulate his theory of gravity. It was a belief in those laws that drove Einstein to formulate relativity. As that great man said, religion without sience is blind, and science without religion is lame. Neither can function alone, though they both try very hard to do so...

As for me... my belief is God is founded on my personal experiences. I would list them but there's only so much time in the world. I've had a few people tell me that most of my experiences are coincidences but, then, I've found that an awful lot of coincidences happen when God is around... :)

God is in everything. God is above everything. God set this universe in motion. Once you realise this you can look at everything, from the colour of the sky to the most fundamental physics, and see the beauty of God's creation. It's fun. :)

My question is to those who do believe in god. As there really is no evidence, just a number of very old books, why do you believe in god, what makes you believe? Could you imagine yourself waking up one day doubting god's existence? Or his continued interest in mankind and it's morality?
I came to a belief in god in my adulthood, because of an understanding of the concept of god, made evident through an exploration of mythology. There is sufficient evidence in mythology to support the human need for the relationship with divinity, symbolised in a transcendental body and mind, and that evidence (the mythology itself) is evidence of god. (Makes we wince every time someone points at a myth as no-evidence of god.) Additionally, I have experienced a 'feeling' that I believe comes close to what has been described by others metaphorically as godly, and while it in no way is objective physical evidence of god, it was rather convincing.

Needless to say I am not a Christian and have no belief in that image of God as something real.

I came to a belief in god in my adulthood, because of an understanding of the concept of god, made evident through an exploration of mythology. There is sufficient evidence in mythology to support the human need for the relationship with divinity, symbolised in a transcendental body and mind, and that evidence (the mythology itself) is evidence of god. (Makes we wince every time someone points at a myth as no-evidence of god.) Additionally, I have experienced a 'feeling' that I believe comes close to what has been described by others metaphorically as godly, and while it in no way is objective physical evidence of god, it was rather convincing.

Needless to say I am not a Christian and have no belief in that image of God as something real.
Nothing like Wicca to make a simple idea complicated beyond useful understanding.

I don't believe in God because of some very old books.

I believe because I've had numerous personal experiences that proved it to me.

Same here. Many, many times God has called out to me, and told me that he's there, and that he has plans for me.

Same here. Many, many times God has called out to me, and told me that he's there, and that he has plans for me.

So why has God abandoned me? I'm a good person with strong morals and a kind heart, I'm caring, polite and I rarely swear any more, yet others attack and beat me, I am hated by many, and I am alone. So tell me, what part does this play in gods master plan? Why have I been abandoned?

My faith was destroyed long ago, by the harshness of reality.

So why has God abandoned me? I'm a good person with strong morals and a kind heart, I'm caring, polite and I rarely swear any more, yet others attack and beat me, I am hated by many, and I am alone. So tell me, what part does this play in gods master plan? Why have I been abandoned?

My faith was destroyed long ago, by the harshness of reality.
and where oh where does it say:
"and ye, those who art Christians shall lead lives of luxury and wealth, thou shalt all have penthouse suites at that hugeass 7-star hotel in Dubai and more stuff than you know what to do with" ?

does it not say more to the effect of:
"become a Christian and people will rain sh*t on you for the rest of your life"

what's fair anyway. non-Christians are condemned to hell for the sin of a bloke listening to a woman. now that's harsh

I've decided to just go through life like I want, and then die and see what happens. I figure as long as you live a good life, god'll let you in. If he just lets people who believe in him in, then he's a big headed moron and i wouldn't want in anyway.

I've decided to just go through life like I want, and then die and see what happens. I figure as long as you live a good life, god'll let you in. If he just lets people who believe in him in, then he's a big headed moron and i wouldn't want in anyway.
well, it's your eternity of pain. I'll see you by the sulphur baths.

We believe in God for the same reason that people have been believing in gods for thousands of years. Fear, superstition and brain-washing. We are human and thats our little crutch. Heaven forbid we should be alone in this big universe. That would be way too scary. :eek:

well, it's your eternity of pain. I'll see you by the sulphur baths.

I'll bring the towls, you bring the Margaritta. :D

I've decided to just go through life like I want, and then die and see what happens. I figure as long as you live a good life, god'll let you in. If he just lets people who believe in him in, then he's a big headed moron and i wouldn't want in anyway.

I'm a Pentacostal, and I don't believe that God is such a dick that he'll screw you into Hell for not believing.

I do, however, note that I've had a lot of success over the years with group prayer - I've seen genuine miracles, and I'm a very skeptical person by nature.

So, your mileage may vary, but I'm not waiting to die to see if God is real and if Heaven is a nice possibility. I'm enjoying the benefits now.

Nothing like Wicca to make a simple idea complicated beyond useful understanding.
Well, I wouldn't know.

(And it is exceedingly simplified, not complicated.)

If you meet someone and get to know them, you can't then say that thay don't exist cos that doesn't make sense.

Quite frankly Christian faith is scientifically insane, I just happen to like that type of insanity; at least I'm a Christian who can admit that.

Albert Einstein once said that there's only so far you can trace back evolution until you find God.

look ok mankind made up all the myths all the gods around the world just because they needed to feel safe mentally and like there was meaning to the life they was leading and such what not personally id love to smacks the preach dude who is using that stained cloth in that stupid church saying its the someand what other jesus's bloody toga or something like that people wake up and smell the coffee you got jiffed by all of our ancestors there is no alah god zeus apollo etc. etc. and so forth and so on* i cant believe human as far as we have evoled would be as stupid as we are petty difference are nothing we are all human period so i guess people need to be thinking about a real problem besides what this country is doing against this other country no just work together cause pretty soon the real world is gonna take a shaft up the *ss and die from nukes polution overpopulation and maybe even a meteor crashing down ending our nice little party and personally people i used to be a christian until i came to the age of reason and just laughed at my church now im just a human living a normal life until you church goers lol wasting precios time at church when you could be helping to improve the world i know i do i work my *ss off everyday *just another way for people to give a small group of people more power i mean for *uck sake people the pope omg wth he was just a old guy who needed to die he needs to keep his hands off the altar boys :eek:

what's fair anyway. non-Christians are condemned to hell for the sin of a bloke listening to a woman. now that's harsh

Ouch! Eve had to be seduced by the serpent. All it took for Adam was the mention of it.

rubbish


Your post is proof alone that there is no God. No loving God would give someone the Internet and then remove their ability to type coherently.

Oh, we can say ass here, ok?

[QUOTE=Manawskistan]Your post is proof alone that there is no God. No loving God would give someone the Internet and then remove their ability to type coherently. QUOTE]

Hahahah. Convincing arguement. Makes me almost question my faith

Well, I wouldn't know.

(And it is exceedingly simplified, not complicated.)
sorry, Gamer. my mistake.

Ouch! Eve had to be seduced by the serpent. All it took for Adam was the mention of it.
hmm.. ladies love the serpent..

but true. it's not like Adam applied any critical thinking to the entire situation

look ok mankind made up all the myths all the gods around the world just because they needed to feel safe mentally and like there was meaning to the life they was leading and such what not personally id love to smacks the preach dude who is using that stained cloth in that stupid church saying its the someand what other jesus's bloody toga or something like that people wake up and smell the coffee you got jiffed by all of our ancestors there is no alah god zeus apollo etc. etc. and so forth and so on* i cant believe human as far as we have evoled would be as stupid as we are petty difference are nothing we are all human period so i guess people need to be thinking about a real problem besides what this country is doing against this other country no just work together cause pretty soon the real world is gonna take a shaft up the *ss and die from nukes polution overpopulation and maybe even a meteor crashing down ending our nice little party and personally people i used to be a christian until i came to the age of reason and just laughed at my church now im just a human living a normal life until you church goers lol wasting precios time at church when you could be helping to improve the world i know i do i work my *ss off everyday *just another way for people to give a small group of people more power i mean for *uck sake people the pope omg wth he was just a old guy who needed to die he needs to keep his hands off the altar boys :eek:

I like your use of periods.

Try using rational thought, next time, bud.

Albert Einstein once said that there's only so far you can trace back evolution until you find God.

1. I never heard that quote ascribed to Einstein. I do know quite a lot of quotes which make it quite clear he did not believe in the Christian perception of God ;)
2. Einstein was not a biologist nor an expert on stellar evolution :p

My original thought about that was, imagine you grew up in another culture, say you were born in a Braham family somewhere in Northern India, or you were born in Tunisia, or you were born in the former GDR, in all of these cases you would most likely have grown up and heard about god only very late in life, after being influenced by the faith of the people around you. Most likely you would have become nice, friendly but firm believers in Hiduism, Islam or atheists.

I grew up in a Catholic family in a Catholic town and went to a Catholic school. I grew up in country where religion is treated as something very private, something you talk about to friends and family, something you display as moderately as possible, and nothing that you ever, under any circumstances make a public spectacle of. Religion to me always was dignified rather than emotional.
As a result, people come to terms with their spirituality in a private way. I still call myself Catholic, although I find that some Catholics - please don't be offended by my next lines, please - I find some Catholics, especially Catholics from the US, sometimes slightly embarassing with the way they turn their faith public. To give an example, I was in New York a few years ago and took a guided tour through the city. With our group was a young girl from Texas, who wasted no time in letting everybody in the group know that she was Catholic. She asked the guide about mass schedules about every single church we passed on the way. There's a house in Manhattan that was the birth place of the first American-born saint; as soon as the guide informed us on that the girl ran up to the house and kissed the wall. I do understand that she must have been a very extreme case, but I felt rather embarassed about the way she was shoving her religion into other people's faces.
Actually, at that moment, had somebody asked me I would have denied being a Christian altogether.

I still call myself Catholic, because I know thatmy belief structures were created and formed by the environment I grew up in, I come from a Catholic background and it has shaped my view of the world. But it didn't determine this view. When I was a teenager, I looked around at other religions the world has to offer, and tried to think myself into their philosophies and views. Please note, I didn't go for the fact so much as for the general views and different ideas, processing them againt my own background and judging them by the standards of my conscience.
After a while, I concluded that deep down, all religions are expressions of the same ethic standards, they all more or less convey the same message : Live a good life, be good, kind and compassionate to others, don't take what isn't yours, don't hurt or kill others. Some religions combine this with messages from gods or prophets, others hold these truths to be self-explanatory.

In understanding this, I found it - for myself at least - ridiculous beyond words to follow all of the bible to the letter. The commandments can be derived from my statement above, and so can all other standards I live my life by. Some of them are in line with the words and with the interpretation of the bible, others aren't.
But I figure that any god who created the entire univers can't possibly care if I eat meat on Fridays or have a homosexual relationship. If god is essentially good - which I sometimes doubt when looking around, but maybe he's just got a very black sense of humour - then all he could possibly want for us is to make life better for each other, to enjoy what he gave us and to be responsible with it.
If he doesn't exist, we should do the same, for the sake of humanity and human society.

1. I never heard that quote ascribed to Einstein. I do know quite a lot of quotes which make it quite clear he did not believe in the Christian perception of God ;)


THAT would really surprise me, considering that he was Jewish...

I believe in God because that is what feels right to me. I respect that other people have different views of what God is to them, and even that some people prefer not to believe at all. I refuse to push my belief on others and expect others to feel the same way.
Overall, you have to believe what makes sense for you. Forcing someone else to believe as you do just makes it less. You can believe there is one God, several gods, that Nature is god or no god at all. It is what you are comfortable with and I believe that we would all be more comfortable if we would just accept that and not try to conform everyone else to what we think is right.

<Schnip>
ethics may be similar between religions but the essential philosophies are vastly different, the main distinction being:

Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, many other religions :- your own actions can determine your path in future life/lives.

Christianity :- all fall short in their own actions.

non-christianic Religions therefore say "do good that you may be saved". Christianity says "do good because you are saved".

1. I never heard that quote ascribed to Einstein. I do know quite a lot of quotes which make it quite clear he did not believe in the Christian perception of God ;)
2. Einstein was not a biologist nor an expert on stellar evolution :p

I believe he meant you could never trace evolution all the way back. In the end, you have to have some kind of creation. It had to come from somewhere.

He delved into many different fields like physics which is an aspect of evolution.

I believe in God because ice floats!!!
PM me for a more in depth answer. Its quite interesting.

If you want to know whether God exists or not all you have to do is answer one question... Did Jesus rise bodily from the dead?

The good thing about this question is that theres no middle ground, he either rose back to full life or remained dead. I urge you all to look at this because the answer you come to will model and change the rest of your life.

AJ

PS
I've had a few people tell me that most of my experiences are coincidences but, then, I've found that an awful lot of coincidences happen when God is around... :)

God is in everything. God is above everything. God set this universe in motion. Once you realise this you can look at everything, from the colour of the sky to the most fundamental physics, and see the beauty of God's creation. It's fun. :)

Amen to that!!!

ethics may be similar between religions but the essential philosophies are vastly different, the main distinction being:

Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, many other religions :- your own actions can determine your path in future life/lives.

Christianity :- all fall short in their own actions.

non-christianic Religions therefore say "do good that you may be saved". Christianity says "do good because you are saved".

And the difference for living your life is...?
Besides, Islam believes that your life is predetermined from the minute you are born - kismet

And the difference for living your life is...?
uhh... 42? sorry, what were you asking?
Besides, Islam believes that your life is predetermined from the minute you are born - kismet
yeah. so does Christianity (and logic) in effect. if you have two exclusive choices you cannot take both. therefore your life can only go down one path. figuring out that path just requires factoring in all possible influences etc.

experience

uhh... 42? sorry, what were you asking?

Living a good life hoping that it will "save" you from something and living a good life knowing you are already "saved" seem to have the very same effect, just living a good life, right?

yeah. so does Christianity (and logic) in effect. if you have two exclusive choices you cannot take both. therefore your life can only go down one path. figuring out that path just requires factoring in all possible influences etc.

Actually, Islam is taking that a step further saying that all decisions you will make in your life are already written down wehn you are born, you can't avoid or change them in any way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kismet_(fate)

Living a good life hoping that it will "save" you from something and living a good life knowing you are already "saved" seem to have the very same effect, just living a good life, right?

It's the same effect but the reasons for living a good life are different. Being forced to live a good life instead of choosing to

No, no, no. This is not about what kind of believe is the right one, and it's not about atheists either. I know you don't believe in god because there is no evidence, and that's ok.
My question is to those who do believe in god. As there really is no evidence, just a number of very old books, why do you believe in god, what makes you believe? Could you imagine yourself waking up one day doubting god's existence? Or his continued interest in mankind and it's morality?
Like many people yes, I have once doubted the Lord's existence. But then, I felt something missing in me. Some great gaping hole in my heart. I knew that hole could only be filled by believing in God. Also, for me you see, God is like air, you can't see Him, but you know He's there. It's my faith, and I am happy with it.

Living a good life hoping that it will "save" you from something and living a good life knowing you are already "saved" seem to have the very same effect, just living a good life, right?

Actually, Islam is taking that a step further saying that all decisions you will make in your life are already written down wehn you are born, you can't avoid or change them in any way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kismet_(fate)
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kismet_%28fate%29

The article begins with a misunderstanding of destiny. It's hard to take it seriously. :p

It's the same effect but the reasons for living a good life are different. Being forced to live a good life instead of choosing to
aye, exactly, the very essence of free will


Actually, Islam is taking that a step further saying that all decisions you will make in your life are already written down when you are born, you can't avoid or change them in any way.
how is that different from my point? (apart from God writing stuff down. Apprently he has a pretty good memory)

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kismet_%28fate%29

The article begins with a misunderstanding of destiny. It's hard to take it seriously. :p

Why misunderstanding? It starts giving the historical context and those societies understanding of fate/kismet

Why misunderstanding? It starts giving the historical context and those societies understanding of fate/kismet
I believe you may be about to read/hear the excessively complex, vague to incomprehensible definition of Destiny as given by a 'Gamer'.

and I thought Destiny was the girl from the hairdressers..

I don't believe in god.

I believe in God.

There's a difference.

As for why, that's complicated - and a very long story.

Why misunderstanding? It starts giving the historical context and those societies understanding of fate/kismet
I added a section to "destiny" called "Destiny in divination". I hope the editors approve it.

I added a section to "destiny" called "Destiny in divination". I hope the editors approve it.

Divination? I guess we're talking about two different things here... I was trying to point out the fact the Islam doesn't believe in living a good live in order to be saved, as life is predetermined in every aspect. You can only live the life god designed for you.
It kind of makes sense, too, if you believe that god is onmiscient he WILL know exactly what your live is going to be like aeons before you're born.

Divination? I guess we're talking about two different things here... I was trying to point out the fact the Islam doesn't believe in living a good live in order to be saved, as life is predetermined in every aspect. You can only live the life god designed for you.
It kind of makes sense, too, if you believe that god is onmiscient he WILL know exactly what your live is going to be like aeons before you're born.
Muslims do believe that a man is responsible for his actions. "The Ash’arites concluded that, although Allah decrees for a man to do a thing, he also gives man the choice and desire to do it. In this way, each man becomes responsible for his own actions because he chose to do what Allah had decreed for him to do, even though he could do nothing else. This teaching is known by the Arabic word ‘kasb,’ which means ‘acquiring’."
http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/shamoun/Predestination%20in%20Islam.html

Muslims do believe that a man is responsible for his actions. "The Ash’arites concluded that, although Allah decrees for a man to do a thing, he also gives man the choice and desire to do it. In this way, each man becomes responsible for his own actions because he chose to do what Allah had decreed for him to do, even though he could do nothing else. This teaching is known by the Arabic word ‘kasb,’ which means ‘acquiring’."
http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/shamoun/Predestination%20in%20Islam.html

I never said they were not held responsible for their actions. Muslims have a very clear picture about what the afterlife is going to be like according to the life you lived on this side. But the Christian idea of salvation and absolution does not comply with this philosophie. It is written in the book of life if you are going to heaven or hell.