NationStates Jolt Archive

As the election draws to a close, I feel compelled to make one last plea for those who have yet to vote to do so without regard to ideology.

When you take an ideological approach to politics, you effectively lock yourself into following the "party line." People tend to pigeon-hole you into whatever their concept of your avowed ideology is. Not only does this severly limit your options, it often casts you in a rather unfavorable light.

We in the Party of Whatever Works ( POWW ) do our best to take a rational approach toward issues, and beyond that, to the overall well-being of community, nation and world.

For example, although we understand the need for business to be as regulation-free as possible, we also understand the need for business to be closely monitored for the greater well-being of their various client and stake-holders ( employees, customers, owners, entrepreneurs, etc. ), and the overriding need for environmental protection.

Please consider joining the "Party of the thinking human," the Party Of Whatever Works!"

http://img157.echo.cx/img157/5324/thethinker1sy.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Your comments and suggestions are always welcome at POWW, whether you're a member or not! :)

1. I lost my sanity in a tragic suicide.
2. I voted for the communist party.

1. I lost my sanity in a tragic suicide.
2. I voted for the communist party.
Strangely enough, those two comments are not incompatible! :D

Your comments and suggestions are always welcome at POWW, whether you're a member or not! :)

About the campaign poster...the text in the bottom left hand corner is a little difficult to read, as it's almost the same colour as the background. I keep on interpreting it as 'The party for shrinking humans'.

By the way, you have a TG.

I'll vote for the first one to tell me where to vote...

I'll vote for the first one to tell me where to vote...
http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423271

I'll vote for the first one to tell me where to vote...

The NS General election thread.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423271

EDIT: beaten to it...

thanks, want me to vote for anyone in particular?

thanks, want me to vote for anyone in particular?

The Party of Whatever Works.

Just an observation that to vote for someone with no explicit ideology is not to vote for someone with no ideology at all. There is a set of underlying beliefs that are used to decide what is good and what is not good. It is just that these have not been thought about. It is a very very risky proposition. If you do not like the ideologies of that are explicit, you are better off abstaining than voting for a party that claims, erroneously, to have no ideology.

There are things that the party members believe in, these constituyte an ideology regardless of whether they wish to cal it that. If these beliefs are just pure pragmatism, whatever is best now, then there will be no direction to the governance and complete inability to predict the future trends. This means that you, as an individual will not know whether it is better to spend now or save now, to study or to work, you will not be able to plan anything.

I am sorry Eutrusca but although the idea of an ideology free politics is veryt nice, it is actually impossible given that politicians are people.

So A final plea, vote for an ideology you agree with or abstain. Do not vote for an unknown ideology. The Ideology of the Party of Whatever Workks is evident in their manifesto. Read it, rather than take their word that they have none.

About the campaign poster...the text in the bottom left hand corner is a little difficult to read, as it's almost the same colour as the background. I keep on interpreting it as 'The party for shrinking humans'.

By the way, you have a TG.
Point taken. I'll change it as soon as I have a chance. :)

a party that claims, erroneously, to have no ideology.

I think there is a misunderstanding. It's not that we have no ideology as such, merely that we do not blindly follow an ideology. We are not rigidly bound to any kind of policy, we try to be sensible, rather than "oh we can't do that, it's leftist/rightist/libertarian/authoritarian" etc. Maybe someone else can explain this better.

I think there is a misunderstanding. It's not that we have no ideology as such, merely that we do not blindly follow an ideology. We are not rigidly bound to any kind of policy, we try to be sensible, rather than "oh we can't do that, it's leftist/rightist/libertarian/authoritarian" etc. Maybe someone else can explain this better.

Go and read the post of Eutrusca's at the start of this thread. It specifically says:

I feel compelled to make one last plea for those who have yet to vote to do so without regard to ideology.

I am simply pointing out that that approach is dangerous. Everyone has an ideology, and if you vote without regard to it, then it will rear up its head and bite you. Know who you are voting for, decide on the basis of the policies, not the rhetoric, and if you don't support the ideology of any group then abstain.

Rational reaction is not eliminated by having an ideology in most cases (I am not sure about communism or fascism, but within normal ranges this applies). Look at our manifesto and you will see rational consideration of many points that our ideology does not guide us on. Where our ideology would lead us to an absurd position (which it happens that it has not yet) we would have to reconsider the ideology, modifying it to keep it within reason.

I am simply pointing out that that approach is dangerous. Everyone has an ideology, and if you vote without regard to it, then it will rear up its head and bite you. Know who you are voting for, decide on the basis of the policies, not the rhetoric, and if you don't support the ideology of any group then abstain.
I see your point. That was not the best way to describe the party. However, I would say that adherence to a principle without flexibility can be harmful. I did vote on basis of the manifesto, by the way, in case you thought otherwise.

I think there is a misunderstanding. It's not that we have no ideology as such, merely that we do not blindly follow an ideology. We are not rigidly bound to any kind of policy, we try to be sensible, rather than "oh we can't do that, it's leftist/rightist/libertarian/authoritarian" etc. Maybe someone else can explain this better.
I think you said it very well. :)

We do indeed try to be "ideology free," but we do have a set of principles which guide our thinking. These are covered at length in our Party Platform, but boiled down to their essence:

* What is best for the greatest number of people?

* How can we best improve the quality of life for those most in need?

* What is best for the long-term welfare of community, nation and world?

Beyond those few, we do our very best to rely on the best available data and the rule of reason.

Strangely enough, those two comments are not incompatible! :D
Apparently, that was the step I had to take in order to make up my mind on who to vote for!

Apparently, those were the steps I had to take in order to make up my mind on who to vote for!
And may I ask? :)

And may I ask? :)
I said communist, right? Yup. Them.


I can't wait until I get to vote for President of the United States.


*Write in* Me.

Well, it looks like the "Classic Liberals " are going to win and that suits me just fine. No other party presented here were really in the same league as them anyway.

Xan.

I think you said it very well. :)

We do indeed try to be "ideology free," but we do have a set of principles which guide our thinking. These are covered at length in our Party Platform, but boiled down to their essence:

* What is best for the greatest number of people?

* How can we best improve the quality of life for those most in need?

* What is best for the long-term welfare of community, nation and world?

Beyond those few, we do our very best to rely on the best available data and the rule of reason.

Ah. I know you don't like labels, but that is a description of Utilitarianism.

Well, it looks like the "Classic Liberals " are going to win and that suits me just fine. No other party presented here were really in the same league as them anyway.

Xan.

No one is going to "win" since no one s even close to a majority. The Classic Liberals will have the most votes and probably the most seats now that it looks like the Democratic Socialist Party will finish with only four seats. This is ok with me since PoWW and the Class. Libs. have a good deal in common. What we really need are a few more votes for the PoWW to break the three way tie with us the MRR and the CoTP, who knows a few more votes could get us another seat.

Ah. I know you don't like labels, but that is a description of Utilitarianism.
I'm an anti-labelist. :p

I'd rather see a balance between the Democratic Socialist Party and the Classic Liberals. That would be a nice balance.

Xan.

Ah. I know you don't like labels, but that is a description of Utilitarianism.
Oh, I'm certain there's some label somewhere into which we can be force-fit. There's certainly no lack of lables, and our dislike of them is obviously no deterrent to having them slapped, willy-nilly onto our collective forehead. Whether we accept them or not is another matter entirely. :)

I've realised that the Party of Whatever Works doesn't seem to have a party colour (e.g. NSCL have Orange, RTP have Red, etc.).

How about Gold?

The Party of Whatever Works

I've realised that the Party of Whatever Works doesn't seem to have a party colour (e.g. NSCL have Orange, RTP have Red, etc.).

How about Gold?

The Party of Whatever Works
What is the "color" of thought? Gold? :)

I'd rather see a balance between the Democratic Socialist Party and the Classic Liberals. That would be a nice balance.

Xan.

It will probably shape up into a balance between the communists (DSP, RTP and the UDCP) and the centerist/slightly right of centre parties (MRR, Class. Libs. and PoWW) with the various small parties holding the balance of power. Right now it looks like it will be an eight nine split between the extreme left (DSP 4, RTP 1, UDCP 3) and the libertarians (Class. Libs. 5, MRR 2, PoWW 2) although both the PoWW and the MRR might be able to each pick up another seat.

It will probably shape up into a balance between the communists (DSP, RTP and the UDCP) and the centerist/slightly right of centre parties (MRR, Class. Libs. and PoWW) with the various small parties holding the balance of power. Right now it looks like it will be an eight nine split between the extreme left (DSP 4, RTP 1, UDCP 3) and the libertarians (Class. Libs. 5, MRR 2, PoWW 2) although both the PoWW and the MRR might be able to each pick up another seat.
How dare you call the DSP extreme left? THEY'RE LIBERALS!!!

http://img83.echo.cx/img83/2121/ohgodyes0qn.jpg

http://img39.echo.cx/img39/3366/openborders4lc.jpg

How dare you call the DSP extreme left? THEY'RE LIBERALS!!!

Perhaps but they're likely to vote with you on most issues, from now on I'll refer to these three parties as the Red bloc.

What is the "color" of thought? Gold? :)

It was the colour of my thought - and the thought was "what colour do I like?" :D

Perhaps but they're likely to vote with you on most issues, from now on I'll refer to these three parties as the Red bloc.
*chokes on his own rage*

It will probably shape up into a balance between the communists (DSP, RTP and the UDCP) and the centerist/slightly right of centre parties (MRR, Class. Libs. and PoWW) with the various small parties holding the balance of power. Right now it looks like it will be an eight nine split between the extreme left (DSP 4, RTP 1, UDCP 3) and the libertarians (Class. Libs. 5, MRR 2, PoWW 2) although both the PoWW and the MRR might be able to each pick up another seat.

I think you are forgetting a very important party. I would put the libertarians/capitalists as us, the NSCL, as well as the Up Yours Party and the MRR. The PoWW are a slightly right of centre party and will hold a degree of power. The Up yours party has 3 seats at the moment, NSCL 5, MRR 2 and PoWW has 2. Giving a combined 12 seats. 1 more seat and the right of centre parties have a majority. That could be MOBRA or POO if they get seats.

That could be MOBRA or POO if they get seats.
Impossible! Right-wingers have no sense of humour! Shit, wait a second.... They're righties! NO!

I think you are forgetting a very important party. I would put the libertarians/capitalists as us, the NSCL, as well as the Up Yours Party and the MRR. The PoWW are a slightly right of centre party and will hold a degree of power. The Up yours party has 3 seats at the moment, NSCL 5, MRR 2 and PoWW has 2. Giving a combined 12 seats. 1 more seat and the right of centre parties have a majority. That could be MOBRA or POO if they get seats.

Yeah the Up Yours Party is doing very well and will probably side with us over the Reds more often then not. I think the PoWW might even be able to pick up another seat because of the tight race between us the MRR and CoTP which we are currently leading. That would give our four parties a majority with 13 seats.

It was the colour of my thought - and the thought was "what colour do I like?" :D
Heh! Go for it, dude! :D

In case you want to use it, I will provide the hex code I settled on. It's F6C300.

In case you want to use it, I will provide the hex code I settled on. It's F6C300.
Kewl. Lemmie go try it out! :)

What thinkest thou???


http://img43.echo.cx/img43/2306/thethinker22yy.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

The gold shows up well and is pleasing to the eye, but I don't think it's necessary to justify it with a slogan that doesn't really say anything. It's not like the NSCL mention citrus fruits to justify their use of orange.

The gold shows up well and is pleasing to the eye, but I don't think it's necessary to justify it with a slogan that doesn't really say anything. It's not like the NSCL mention citrus fruits to justify their use of orange.
:rolleyes:

Guys we really need to win some more voters over, we're right between having 2 or 3 seats (currently at 3 but by a hair). Needless to say we've made great progress today, when I joined and started watching closely we were just over 8% of the vote and behind CoTP, now we're well over 10% and almost past the UDCP. Lets finish strong.

Also we really should look into getting an offsite forum and maybe making a short list of candidates to fill our 2-3 seats.

:rolleyes:

That's not to say that I think we should get rid of the poster. On the contrary, the more the merrier.

Guys we really need to win some more voters over, we're right between having 2 or 3 seats (currently at 3 but by a hair). Needless to say we've made great progress today, when I joined and started watching closely we were just over 8% of the vote and behind CoTP, now we're well over 10% and almost past the UDCP. Lets finish strong.

Also we really should look into getting an offsite forum and maybe making a short list of candidates to fill our 2-3 seats.
Would you be in charge of starting that forum, please? If you will, please make sure it's password protected. I don't think it's appropriate to "air our dirty linen in public." :)

As to additional voters, I'm all for it, but not at the cost of principles. I would much prefer to have a Party made up of civilized humans who engage in civilized discourse about issues affecting civilization, than a large Party made up of those who "kinda, sorta, maybe" want to approach issues in a logical manner.

That's not to say that I think we should get rid of the poster. On the contrary, the more the merrier.
Heh! How very "politic" of you! :D

We need to overtake the UDCP otherwise we might lose our third seat if the DSP gets much stronger. We must sure the commies take seats from each other not from us.

We need to overtake the UDCP otherwise we might lose our third seat if the DSP gets much stronger. We must sure the commies take seats from each other not from us.
Your suggestions???

No idea, I'm trying to get that offsite forum set up right now. I guess post something in your regional message board about the PoWW and post in the General Election thread about once each page.

No idea, I'm trying to get that offsite forum set up right now. I guess post something in your regional message board about the PoWW and post in the General Election thread about once each page.
Hmm. We tread a fine line between political advertising and spam! Heh!

I'm working on it, but trying to avoid looking too eager for votes. We'll see. :)

Ok I think I got it working, still a few bugs I'll need to work out (I've never done anything like this before).

http://s2.phpbbforfree.com/forums/powwforum.html

Hmm. We tread a fine line between political advertising and spam! Heh!

I'm working on it, but trying to avoid looking too eager for votes. We'll see. :)

Look eager for votes, the rest of us look desperate don't we? :)

Ok I think I got it working, still a few bugs I'll need to work out (I've never done anything like this before).

http://s2.phpbbforfree.com/forums/powwforum.html

I'm an admin on my own forum, so I may be able to help (my forum is invision power board though, not phpbb - I don't know how similar they are). I can give advice on what forums and categories to create though.

Look eager for votes, the rest of us look desperate don't we? :)
All the more reason to avoid even the appearance of eagerness! ;)

I'm an admin on my own forum, so I may be able to help (my forum is invision power board though, not phpbb - I don't know how similar they are). I can give advice on what forums and categories to create though.

Ok I think I've got it set up ok. If I run into any problems I'll drop you a line, thanks for the offer.

Ok anyone thats a member of the PoWW should register.

I'm an admin on my own forum, so I may be able to help (my forum is invision power board though, not phpbb - I don't know how similar they are). I can give advice on what forums and categories to create though.
Do me a favor?

Would you begin compiling a list of all POWW members? I have a short one, but the more complete we can make it, the better off we'll be. :)

Do me a favor?

Would you begin compiling a list of all POWW members? I have a short one, but the more complete we can make it, the better off we'll be. :)

How should I do that? I could create a thread asking all members to post to say that they are members.

Also, to be sure that people who post on the forum are who they say they are, they should confirm that they have signed up, here on NS. I have signed up with the same name as my nation.

How should I do that? I could create a thread asking all members to post to say that they are members.

Also, to be sure that people who post on the forum are who they say they are, they should confirm that they have signed up, here on NS. I have signed up with the same name as my nation.
Perhaps that should be a requirement ... join the forum with the same name you use here???

Since there may be those who, for whatever reason, might prefer to not be identified as members of POWW, I'll send you the list I have now and you can just periodically ask for members to let you know who they are via telegram. What thinkest thou??

Perhaps that should be a requirement ... join the forum with the same name you use here???
I thought that was sensible.

Since there may be those who, for whatever reason, might prefer to not be identified as members of POWW, I'll send you the list I have now and you can just periodically ask for members to let you know who they are via telegram. What thinkest thou??

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Do me a favor?

Would you begin compiling a list of all POWW members? I have a short one, but the more complete we can make it, the better off we'll be.

Hmm I was about to ask you to do that... I'll make a section in the forum about it.

Anyway, gotta log off now. TG any messages for me.

Your gold seems a lot like the NSCL orange. Perhaps a change of colour? White would be a good choice as it is clear, as is your parties policy of non-ideological decisions.

Sounds good to me.

I was never sane to begin with, but I am insane enough to vote for POWW. In my less hallucenogenic moments I might even be considered eligible to vote. ;) Come visit me @ Larry's Pool Hall, aka London Psychiatric Hospital. To bad they don't let me have guests in the padded cell anymore... :eek:

I was never sane to begin with, but I am insane enough to vote for POWW. In my less hallucenogenic moments I might even be considered eligible to vote. ;) Come visit me @ Larry's Pool Hall, aka London Psychiatric Hospital. To bad they don't let me have guests in the padded cell anymore... :eek:
Ha. Ha. Ha. Verrry funny! :rolleyes:

Your gold seems a lot like the NSCL orange. Perhaps a change of colour? White would be a good choice as it is clear, as is your parties policy of non-ideological decisions.
Good point. We're actually just playing around with things at this point, trying to find our "political legs," so to speak. White seems a bit prosaic somehow. How about dark blue? Burgandy? Mauve? ;)

Avacado green? [ hurls! ] :D

The Democratic Socialists are a fairly ideology-free party (contrary to what the name suggests...)
The only ideology underlying is that everyone should get a fair go, one not influenced by the wealth of your parents.
Therefore we are going to use the free market as a tool to achieve that goal, where innovative individuals prosper, and less fortunate still live a life worth living...

The Democratic Socialists are a fairly ideology-free party (contrary to what the name suggests...)
The only ideology underlying is that everyone should get a fair go, one not influenced by the wealth of your parents.
Therefore we are going to use the free market as a tool to achieve that goal, where innovative individuals prosper, and less fortunate still live a life worth living...
I think it would be a good thing if you would confine your ideological proselytizing to threads designated for such propaganda. We of the Party Of Whatever Works do not visit your "manifesto" thread and threaten your comrades with logic, now do we?

Quick newsflash from the election front. We've overtaken the UDCP! We're now the fourth largest party in NS and are almost guranteed three seats! Lets keep up the good work!

Quick newsflash from the election front. We've overtaken the UDCP! We're now the fourth largest party in NS and are almost guranteed three seats! Lets keep up the good work!
POWW party at my place next Saturday! I'll supply all the vittles if the rest of you bring the beer! ( HINT: I like Carona Extra! ) :D

Looks like we're in a position to overtake the Up Yours Party! As of now we're short by six votes! Who would have thought that this would happen? From almost nothing to almost third place in the popular vote!

Looks like we're in a position to overtake the Up Yours Party! As of now we're short by six votes! Who would have thought that this would happen? From almost nothing to almost third place in the popular vote!
I considered it a possibility, but never dared hope. :)

People are getting tired of ideological, knee-jerk responses from supposedly intelligent politicians, of whatever stripe, right and left. If we can continue to offer thoughtful, insightful, workable solutions to real-world problems, and actually listen to what people say, we should garner even more support, even though the elections end in just a few hours.