NationStates Jolt Archive


Apocalypse 1940 (To be written, maybe RP, who knows)

Deutsches-Brabant
05-06-2005, 06:17
This is based partly on the 'Alternate WWII Scenario' I had going a bit earlier. The following is, fundamentally, a teaser of sorts.

1940 was a year fraught with tensions worldwide. Although Germany had emerged as a surprising bulwark of democracy and stability and had by and large made peace with its former enemies Britain and France, a new and greater threat was looming from the East. For a decade, Joseph Stalin, the brutal and cunning ruler of the Soviet Union had been building up his nation's economic and military might as much of the rest of the world struggled under a lingering Depression. Meanwhile, the victorious Spanish Republic is overthrown by a Communist insurgency, making the situation even more volatile.

The United States, without the leadership of Roosevelt, has made modest economic recovery but remains without any real direction on foreign policy issues. Although the US is, of course, more favorable towards the Western democracies, most Americans view the approaching tension in Europe with jaded cynicism. America has its own problems.

In the Pacific, the Japanese find themselves already embroiled in an ongoing conflict with Nationalist China, which managed to defeat Mao's Communists in an earlier campaign. The Empire of Japan is aware that the Soviet Union is supplying Nationalist China, but will not declare war on Stalin's incredibly powerful state without powerful support. An isolated battle at Khalkin Gol proves the potential might of the Red Army.

As Americans prepare for the 1940 elections, in which previously unsuccessful Presidential nominee Franklin D. Roosevelt is said to be attempting to run again, as the Japanese plan their battle strategy for a full-scale invasion of China from their bases in Manchuria, Stalin gathers the Red Army for a massive westward invasion.

In order to stop the massive Soviet invasion, a hasty alliance has been formed between most of the countries of Europe. Although Fascist Italy and democratic Britain are awkward allies and the French still hold the Germans with distrust, the simple fact is that the Continent will either rise together or fall together. Further complicating the issue is the Empire of Japan, who welcomes a diversion of Soviet strength, but also covets the colonial possessions of European nations.

The Second World War is about to begin.
Lacadaemon
05-06-2005, 06:25
You'd never get the british or french to fight for that one.

Well not at least until Germany was on its knees.

In any case, the USSR didn't have that kind of striking power at the time.
Blackfoot Barrens
05-06-2005, 06:38
I'm with Lacadaemon here. The official Anglo-French policy would be "Let the hun bastards wear each other down." Translated into French of course. Hundreds of years of European warfare are not eliminated by one reasonable German.
Deutsches-Brabant
05-06-2005, 06:42
I disagree. I think that a massive attack across Europe by the Soviet Union would elicit a response from Britain and (eventually) France. Since it's not just Germany but everyone else, Poland, Czechslovakia. And what was IRL in 1940 isn't directly applicable, since Stalin's been building for an invasion. Which he would've probably tried sooner or later if the Wehrmacht hadn't beat him to the punch. And the Soviet Union had massive military power, it was mostly that it was extremely poorly managed that the Germans did so well in 1941.
Blackfoot Barrens
05-06-2005, 06:44
If it's the case of a unified, organized, built up and battle ready Soviet Union verus a democratic, peaceful, reasonable and Versaille-limbered Germany then I have no idea what magic has been worked over the past twenty years. So it should be a fun read. ;)
Industrial Experiment
05-06-2005, 06:45
I disagree. I think that a massive attack across Europe by the Soviet Union would elicit a response from Britain and (eventually) France. Since it's not just Germany but everyone else, Poland, Czechslovakia. And what was IRL in 1940 isn't directly applicable, since Stalin's been building for an invasion. Which he would've probably tried sooner or later if the Wehrmacht hadn't beat him to the punch. And the Soviet Union had massive military power, it was mostly that it was extremely poorly managed that the Germans did so well in 1941.

Did the officer purges still take place?
Deutsches-Brabant
05-06-2005, 06:48
The Soviet Union was unified and organized, it just needs to be prepared along a different route. Without Nazi Germany to worry about, I think Stalin might've bene bolder in that route.

That's a good question, and a serious one. Stalin was extremely paranoid, but at the same time, with offensive action in the offing, one would have to be careful about such things.

It's important to note that it's not 'attacking Germany' as much as it is everyone. Germany doesn't even HAVE a direct border with the Soviet Union. The initial assaults would be against the Baltics, Finland, Poland and Romania for the most part.
Industrial Experiment
05-06-2005, 06:51
The Soviet Union was unified and organized, it just needs to be prepared along a different route. Without Nazi Germany to worry about, I think Stalin might've bene bolder in that route.

That's a good question, and a serious one. Stalin was extremely paranoid, but at the same time, with offensive action in the offing, one would have to be careful about such things.

It's important to note that it's not 'attacking Germany' as much as it is everyone. Germany doesn't even HAVE a direct border with the Soviet Union. The initial assaults would be against the Baltics, Finland, Poland and Romania for the most part.

Is there still an appeasement favoring panderer in charge of Great Britian?
Lacadaemon
05-06-2005, 06:53
I disagree. I think that a massive attack across Europe by the Soviet Union would elicit a response from Britain and (eventually) France. Since it's not just Germany but everyone else, Poland, Czechslovakia. And what was IRL in 1940 isn't directly applicable, since Stalin's been building for an invasion. Which he would've probably tried sooner or later if the Wehrmacht hadn't beat him to the punch. And the Soviet Union had massive military power, it was mostly that it was extremely poorly managed that the Germans did so well in 1941.

Well, he wouldn't have his neutrality pact with the Japanese thus leaving his eastern flank open.

And let's face it, he would have to roll over the Czechs at their full strength (38 at least heavy divisions), the hungarians, the germans, and supported poles. All without lend lease.

There is no reason for the french to get involved at that point - except to move forward and establish the Ruhr-Rhienland as protectorates and take their industrial base if things got hairy.

There is even less reason for the brits.

Plus, lets face it, soviet tech was primitive. All over by xmas I say. ;)
Blackfoot Barrens
05-06-2005, 06:56
It's cheating though isn't it? I mean the spirit of this kind of writing is to change one thing in the past then let everything else play out accordingly. Here you're messing quite extensively with both Germany and the Soviet Union. Perhaps if you gave it another few years of build up, maybe dealt with Japan first. I don't think Stalin would go invading Europe higgelty-piggelty when he could still deal with Japan and have a whole border free.
Industrial Experiment
05-06-2005, 07:02
Plus, lets face it, soviet tech was primitive. All over by xmas I say. ;)

That sounds decidedly familiar...
:P
Lacadaemon
05-06-2005, 07:15
That sounds decidedly familiar...
:P

Oh indeed.

But WWI, was never going to be over by Xmas. Just look at the creation tables for the 'new-armies' if you don't believe me. The British General Staff estimated that a land war with Germany would create at least 1,000,000 dead and take about four years before 1914 (assuming the french were allies of course).

Thess facts, when the war was concluded, were well known. I have spoken to relatives that have confirmed it. And unless you realize that, you can't understand why appeasment was so popular. No-one wanted to enter another war for 'democracy'.

That said, the USSR was impotent in 1939-40. It would have been over by Xmas.
Blackfoot Barrens
05-06-2005, 07:20
Thess facts, when the war was concluded, were well known. I have spoken to relatives that have confirmed it. And unless you realize that, you can't understand why appeasment was so popular. No-one wanted to enter another war for 'democracy'.

That's a point. Next time someone accuses the Bush administration of turning Fascist my retort will be, "So... wanna go to war?"

(I'm British by the way)
Deutsches-Brabant
05-06-2005, 19:29
Would moving up the timetable a year or two change anything in your opinion? Just wondering.