NationStates Jolt Archive

After 9/11 alot of my fellow liberals tried to ask the question "Why do they hate us?". They tried to get to the root causes of the conflict between Islamists and the USA. Alot of answers came back. Mos of them containing at least a bit of truth.

Nobody, to my knowledge has told the Islamists to ask themselves "Why does the USA hate us?" I wonder what answers they would come up with. Probably crap like "They're an instrument of satan/zionism/crusaders/(insert lame scapegoat here)".

We are the infidel! Death to the infidel! (sarcasm)

Seriously, though, the Taliban sprang up because we screwed stuff up for them and then abandoned them way back when... kind of like a lot of your liberals want to do to Iraq now - up and leave without fixing shit first.

why do they hate you/us? because we have lots while they have very little. i say that lies at the real root of the problem.


that plus violence begets violence... we go into their country, guns blazing, and try to 'sort them out' and make them more like us, this is obviously going to cause resentment amongst a lot of people. how would you feel if, say, Islamic extremeits rolled into America with a vastly superior force and told everyone to adopt their values, rules and laws and belittled your own, not to mention your culture? i think most people would resent this.
the west has been doing this for so long to these areas (since the crusades) i'm not suprised they don't care for us much. add in the element of religious fervour (always a strong force when people have nothing) and you have hate.

thats my view anyhow, bash it all you like

Sure Saddam needed to be removed, but the US shouldn't have gone in on false evidence. I've done one tour in the second gulf and my gf is being shipped out tomorrow.

I don't hate anyone, I just hate their leaders that make bad decisions.

"Anyone that can become president should never be allowed to do the job"

why do they hate you/us? because we have lots while they have very little. i say that lies at the real root of the problem.


that plus violence begets violence... we go into their country, guns blazing, and try to 'sort them out' and make them more like us, this is obviously going to cause resentment amongst a lot of people. how would you feel if, say, Islamic extremeits rolled into America with a vastly superior force and told everyone to adopt their values, rules and laws and belittled your own, not to mention your culture? i think most people would resent this.
the west has been doing this for so long to these areas (since the crusades) i'm not suprised they don't care for us much. add in the element of religious fervour (always a strong force when people have nothing) and you have hate.

thats my view anyhow, bash it all you like

That's not the question.

The question was... have a Middle-East Muslim ask themselves: "Why do Americans hate us?"

why do they hate you/us? because we have lots while they have very little. i say that lies at the real root of the problem.


that plus violence begets violence... we go into their country, guns blazing, and try to 'sort them out' and make them more like us, this is obviously going to cause resentment amongst a lot of people. how would you feel if, say, Islamic extremeits rolled into America with a vastly superior force and told everyone to adopt their values, rules and laws and belittled your own, not to mention your culture? i think most people would resent this.
the west has been doing this for so long to these areas (since the crusades) i'm not suprised they don't care for us much. add in the element of religious fervour (always a strong force when people have nothing) and you have hate.

thats my view anyhow, bash it all you like
I'm not sure that works.

First of all, there are many poor countries. Look at some of the sub-saharan african nations. You don't see them starting massive terrorist organizations.

Secondly, we haven't really sent US troops with "guns blazing" into muslim countries very often. Al Quaeda started acting against the USA in the 1990's. Up until that point the only major military involvement we'd had in the arab or wider muslim world had been the first gulf war, where we fought against a fake muslim.

EDIT: this isn't what I was asking about.

After 9/11 alot of my fellow liberals tried to ask the question "Why do they hate us?". They tried to get to the root causes of the conflict between Islamists and the USA. Alot of answers came back. Mos of them containing at least a bit of truth.

Nobody, to my knowledge has told the Islamists to ask themselves "Why does the USA hate us?" I wonder what answers they would come up with. Probably crap like "They're an instrument of satan/zionism/crusaders/(insert lame scapegoat here)".
I don't hate Islamists (any more than I hate anybody else, any way). I understand that everybody has their own reasons for doing whatever they do, which make sense to them, and they will usually do what they feel is right.

That's not the question.

The question was... have a Middle-East Muslim ask themselves: "Why do Americans hate us?"
i was responding to the first part of the OP.

"Why do they hate us?". They tried to get to the root causes of the conflict between Islamists and the USA

and what i said is what i believe to be the root cause of the conflict.


i ignored the second part because i don't think the US hates the Islamic world. at least i certainly hope not. hate is something too strong for "civilised" culture to fall victim to


don't tell me what to post :rolleyes:

Sure Saddam needed to be removed, but the US shouldn't have gone in on false evidence.
I agree on both of those points. Saddam needed to be removed, and the US should have left in the first place. Daddy Bush shouldn't have pulled out to begin with, Clinton should have went back in, and I'm glad Bush Jr. did go back in. Yes, the evidence was incorrect, but you can't really blame Bush for believing it. M6, Russian Intel, and the majority of the CIA were all telling him that Iraq did, in fact, have WMD's. I don't personally care whether they were right or wrong, Saddam needed his ass kicked and Iraq needed a new government.

I don't hate anyone, I just hate their leaders that make bad decisions.

I hate Frenchies and Canadians... but I've spoken to many online and I've met one smart Canadian out of the whole bunch.

i was responding to the first part of the OP.



and what i said is what i believe to be the root cause of the conflict.


i ignored the second part because i don't think the US hates the Islamic world. at least i certainly hope not. hate is something too strong for "civilised" culture to fall victim to


don't tell me what to post :rolleyes:
Dude, I'm not trying to tell you what to post. I'm just asking you not to hijack.

I think there's a perception in the Islamic world that we hate them. I want to know why they think that. Preferably from one of them.

I'm not sure that works.

First of all, there are many poor countries. Look at some of the sub-saharan african nations. You don't see them starting massive terrorist organizations.

Secondly, we haven't really sent US troops with "guns blazing" into muslim countries very often. Al Quaeda started acting against the USA in the 1990's. Up until that point the only major military involvement we'd had in the arab or wider muslim world had been the first gulf war, where we fought against a fake muslim.

EDIT: this isn't what I was asking about.
there are terrorist groups within African countries, to the best of my knowledge, and the terrorism of 9/11 did occur after the "guns blazing" incidents of the 1990s and original gulf war, did it not?

i don't know the specifics of history, but i believe other western powers were militarily active in the region for a long time before the US got involved in the 90s, especially the British Empire. the US is just the current main target

sorry for hijacking your thread. i'll shut up now (i need to go revise anyway:()

If you want to go far enought back, the root of the entire problem is a combination of the fall of the Byzantine Empire at the hands of Muslim Turks, the fact that the Christians and Muslim both lay claim to Jerusalam as thier holy city, the crusades and the fact that Muslims deny that Christ is the savior, while Christians claim that he was.

Nobody, to my knowledge has told the Islamists to ask themselves "Why does the USA hate us?" I wonder what answers they would come up with. Probably crap like "They're an instrument of satan/zionism/crusaders/(insert lame scapegoat here)".

I am not one of them, but I think the root answer would be "because we are different" *. No doubt packaged in talks about different religions.

* specifically where morals and customs are concerned, but that makes a less nice and simple answer.

<snip> i don't think the US hates the Islamic world. You wouldn't be able to tell now would you?

It's an interesting question, why they think we hate them, and one that only a Middle Eastern Muslim can answer.

I can posit some answers by putting myself in their shoes, but until someone with a finger on the pulse of the culture shows up and posts, we're just guessing....

--For the first time in many years, we're not letting the US run the world, and they hate us for it.
--There are more of us than them, and they hate us for it.
--We have all the oil and are squeezing them dry, and they hate us for it.
--We are Allah's chosen ones, and they hate us for it.
--We do not let the US's pawn, Israel, spread her death to all our children, and they hate us for it.

Dude, I'm not trying to tell you what to post. I'm just asking you not to hijack.

I think there's a perception in the Islamic world that we hate them. I want to know why they think that. Preferably from one of them.
sorry, bad mood today... bad day :(
apologies

sorry, bad mood today... bad day :(
apologies
No problem.

I hate Frenchies and Canadians....

Pourquoi?

I

I hate Frenchies and Canadians... but I've spoken to many online and I've met one smart Canadian out of the whole bunch.

If it was online how did you know where they were from?

Um... I get the feeling the most common response would be 'Because they see that some of us are crazy fundamentalist terrorists and assume that we're all like that'. As for the fundamentalist terrorists, it probably is something along the lines of 'Because we're better than them and they know it/They're afraid of us'.

I may not be American, but i can have a bash at this.

//Originally Posted by Rubina:

<snip>
--For the first time in many years, we're not letting the US run the world, and they hate us for it.

Doubtfull. The US is very powerful, and although they would be threatened by opposition (as your example was, the islamic world), whey would most definitely not hate them, they would just compete (in underhand ways at most).

--There are more of us than them, and they hate us for it.

Ehh, ok. You would hate a group of people because it was bigger? I think not. The same applies to the US i feel.

--We have all the oil and are squeezing them dry, and they hate us for it.

True enough, the government there would be a lil' pissed off about that.

--We are Allah's chosen ones, and they hate us for it.

I don't think America is mostly muslim (though i could be wrong), so this makes no sense. It would be like someone declaring themselves 'pasta master of the world' - the title has no effect on a viewer with a different belief.

--We do not let the US's pawn, Israel, spread her death to all our children, and they hate us for it.

I cannot comment on this as i have too little understanding in the issues involved.


End quote//

Although you have a very reasonable post, you're manner carries an aura of closed-mindedness, perhaps? "And they hate us for it" seems a little 'ingrained phrase'-esque to me.

If you want to go far enought back, the root of the entire problem is a combination of the fall of the Byzantine Empire at the hands of Muslim Turks, the fact that the Christians and Muslim both lay claim to Jerusalam as thier holy city, the crusades and the fact that Muslims deny that Christ is the savior, while Christians claim that he was.

That's funny. I was always told that the Islamic religion DOES believe Jesus was a prophet, but that he was the second of three. They don't deny that 'Christ is the savior'. They say that Mohammed was the most recent prophet, and thus the one to put the most emphasis on.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

That's funny. I was always told that the Islamic religion DOES believe Jesus was a prophet, but that he was the second of three. They don't deny that 'Christ is the savior'. They say that Mohammed was the most recent prophet, and thus the one to put the most emphasis on.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong. To a christian saying that Jesus is the savior implies that he's the son of god, god made flesh, sent to die for our sins. Muslims don't buy into that.

its a complex problem with many roots. there is no one easy answer and no easy solution

in addition to those metioned above....


they hate us because THEY want to run the world but dont have enough power and we dont run it the way they would.

they hate us for our unwavering support of israel

they hate us for the spread of our culture which brings their people away from their traditonal culture and control

they hate us because from time to time we screw them over

they hate us because they are told that we are the cause of all their problems

they hate us because they live in countries without a free press and without the freedom to criticize the government so their corrupt government turn discontent that rightly belongs against their own govt toward US.

they hate us because we are "christians" and are in competition for souls.

they hate us because they are being educated in radical islamic schools instead of state supported secular schools.

i could probably think of a few more.