NationStates Jolt Archive

Following the realease of the third movie, I have been wondering what the whole star wars theme is all about. It seems like its a great story etc. and I want to read one of the books just to see what its like.

Could somone (preferably a star wars fan) briefly explain to me the story line of star wars. Also which books and/or movies cover the parts of the story line. As an example: Episode 1 covers.......

Thanks for all your help, maybe it will inspire me to read the books and maybe get into it.

Its ultimately the story of the fall and redemption of a great man-Anakin Skywalker.

well its about space and aleins and fighting and the story of good and evil.............. i like the fighting :sniper: :gundge: :sniper: oh its not about that is it :headbang:

Its ultimately the story of the fall and redemption of a great man-Anakin Skywalker.

exactly. except he began as anakin starkiller

What about the whole backround story of the galaxy.

What if Jesus was a bad guy?

What if Jesus was a bad guy?

then I'd be totally screwed, and so would the rest of humanity

exactly. except he began as anakin starkiller

Well, it went through many incarnations throughout Lucas' conceptioning phases... In the times of 'Starkiller' I think Vader was probably just a generic villian that was unrelated to the protagonist. The last name 'Starkiller' was Luke's.

then I'd be totally screwed, and so would the rest of humanity

Bingo. We'd have the Galactic Empire.

So, what are the wars etc. that they fight and what are the main events from episode one to like 6

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/006071.php


Now I've seen all six of the Star Wars movies, and read the novelizations, and I'm starting to fully grasp the politics of the Old Republic and the Galactic Empire. And I am stunned with the sheer brilliance of Palpatine -- and amazed that the same man who gave us Jar-Jar Binks and the Ewoks also pulled this off.

First off, let's tackle the bit about how Lucas intended to draw parallels between Palpatine and the Empire with the Bush administration. The big scene for this is Anakin and Obi-Wan's argument, where Anakin says "you're either with me or against me," and Obi-Wan answers that "only the Sith see things in such black and white." That sticks out like a sore thumb, because both sides engage in a bit of moral relativism. Palpatine tries to persuade Anakin that good and evil are simply a matter of perspective during the theatre scene, while in Return Of The Jedi Obi-Wan rationalizes his lies to Luke about his father "were true -- from a certain point of view." With those two examples, the Obi-Wan/Anakin argument pretty much falls apart.

Palpatine engineers his rise to power by arranging a war, where his two personas (Palpatine and Sidious) each run one side. And the way he arranges the two sides is also brilliant. Throughout the first three movies, the "bad guys" are almost universally non-human. This helps him push a human-superior agenda, and by the time of the original trilogy, there's nary a non-human to be seen on the Empire's side (apart from the informant who led the Imperials to the Millenium Falcon in Episode 4, and the majority of the bounty hunters in Episode 5). Further, trust and respect for droids is also diminished, based on the Trade Federation's widespread use of them as soldiers and weapons. His plan is to make everyone think of humans as superior, and his leadership of the human element of the Republic will push him forward.

He also has plans for dealing with Jedi. They defeated the Sith the last time they clashed, and he knows that it won't be easy to overcome them. His biggest advantage is that many of the Jedi simply don't believe the Sith still exist, but that can't last forever.

His response: he reveals that fact at a time, place, and manner of his choosing. He sends his apprentice, Darth Maul, to confront them. But Maul is a "classic" Sith Lord, a fighter above all, and ably demonstrates his abilities as such. And the Jedi, who have spent a thousand years training to fight such threats defeat him.

But Palpatine isn't a "classic" Sith, he's a "new" Sith. His battleground is political. He's learned from the mistakes of the past, and his sacrifice of Darth Maul is to convince the Jedi that they are facing a resurgence of an old threat -- one they've defeated before.

Palpatine's second apprentice, Count Dooku/Darth Tyrannus, is a more of a "New" Sith. He becomes the political leader of the Separatists, but publicly plays down his Sith identity and highlights his political strengths. The Jedi dismiss this as a legacy of his noble background and former standing as a Jedi, and don't see it as an indicator of the Sith's incursions into politics. And he, too, is sacrificed in Palpatine's greater plan.

Even the names the Sith take on for themselves indicate their personas. Darth Maul was a fighter, pure and simple. Darth Tyrannus was a political leader. Anakin Skywalker's first act after being christened Darth Vader was to go to the Jedi Temple not as an honored knight, but as an inVader who struck down all within the walls. (Not to mention that "Vader" supposedly means "father" in Dutch -- or so I've heard.) And Palpatine himself conceived and carried out one of the most inSidious political schemes I've ever heard of.

The Jedi made the classic mistake of most great powers: they devote too much time preparing to re-fight the last war, and are woefully unprepared for an opponent who tries a new tactic. It's often said that one learns far more from failures than from victories, and that is exactly the case here.

George Lucas has given us a political saga that could rival The Rise And Fall Of The Roman Empire, but the most amazing thing is in most of the interviews I've seen, he doesn't seem to quite grasp it. He seems incapable of recognizing and articulating it outside of his films.

Its ultimately the story of the fall and redemption of a great man-Anakin Skywalker.

Eh, I think it's R2, since we see the story mostly from his point of view. Think about it, Anikin is an evil phantom in the original trillogy. R2 is a round character throughout the entire series

http://www.darkhorse.com/zones/starwars/timeline.php decent timeline, dunno how accurate...

http://www.starwarsfanworks.com/timeline/ is supposedly good... IDK

It's a dual plot, one part is a personal one and the other is social/political.

At is a personal story of a few men and women, a political story of an entire galaxy, and a philosophical story of Good and Evil. What more could you ask?

watch the movies. read the books. questions you ask, later.

It was about the Grand Clone Army of the Republic,
The Droid Army of the Trade Federation,
The Rebel Alliance,
and The Empire.

It's a dual plot, one part is a personal one...

...and the lesson there was don't trust science, stick with mysticxal bullshit instead...

and the other is social/political.

...and the lesson there was some people are pre-destined to rule society due to their bloodlines.

...and the lesson there was some people are pre-destined to rule society due to their bloodlines.

Like the Time-Lords.

I liked episode III, but the Jedi are just about the stupidest movie types relative to what they are supposed to be.

I think I would have been happier if I had onlt seen episode IV and V been told what happens in VI and III

I liked episode III, but the Jedi are just about the stupidest movie types relative to what they are supposed to be.

I think I would have been happier if I had onlt seen episode IV and V been told what happens in VI and III

Yoda's stupidity gives me countless hours of pleasure.

His lies make me laugh too. Frankly my life is richer for having seen all the movies.

Quote:'(Not to mention that "Vader" supposedly means "father" in Dutch -- or so I've heard.) /Quote

True enough

Yoda's stupidity gives me countless hours of pleasure.

His lies make me laugh too. Frankly my life is richer for having seen all the movies.

What passes for logic or strategy or even basic common sense between these people is beyond me.

Give me decent Bashars and a handful of legions of Saudukar and I would have dominated the empire.

God help the empire if they had to face an enemy that could think in the long term.

Check it out on wiki.

It's a constant struggle between Sith and Jedi. There are also some themes in Star Wars you might notice - remember when Anakin says, "If you're not with me, you're my enemy"? Ring a bell?

All you need to know is

1) All its basic plots are stolen from mythology

2) The names are weird (Yes, "Darth Vader" comes from German "Vater" and Dutch "Vader" -- both meaning "father", and "Darth Sidious" comes from the word "insidious", or slowly and steadily destroying, which is what he is...and "Han Solo" should be pretty obvious...)

3) It's generally too simplistic, about the conflict between good and evil, neither of which exists.

I haven't watched any of the movies beyond episodes IV, V, and VI, and only those at the urging of some NSers, so I can't say for sure.....

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

...and the lesson there was don't trust science, stick with mysticxal bullshit instead...

I don't see what's so great about science. The determinism inherent to it in particular is quite anti-human.

...and the lesson there was some people are pre-destined to rule society due to their bloodlines

I wouldn't say that. The Jedi weren't really rulers. They just advised the ruling organization.

I don't see what's so great about science. The determinism inherent to it in particular is quite anti-human.



I wouldn't say that. The Jedi weren't really rulers. They just advised the ruling organization.

They had a huge influence on the Republic.

Well, if you are looking for the background story of Star Wars, here goes.

The Force is a mystical energy field in this galaxy far, far away, which binds everything together. Every living thing has these microscopic midi-chlorines in them. The more one has the more they can control the Force (though the midi-chlorines thing is really only discussed in Episode I). Very few beings have enough to control the force at all. Now there is a Light and a Dark side of the Force. Members of the Light side use the force to protect themselves and others and lead selfless lives, while the Dark side uses the force to gain power and to hurt others.

Now anyway about 25,000 years before episode I a Galactic Republic forms and begins spreading throughout the galaxy. It is protected by the Jedi order, a group of celibate force-wielding light side Force users who swear to defend the Republic . They traditionally form no attachments to anyone or anything. Some of the Jedi begin dabbling in the dark side and are banished from the Republic. They go to the outer reaches of the Galaxy and build an Empire, calling themselves the Sith.


About 4000 years before Episode I the Sith empire attacks the Republic and are defeated. Then 2000 years after this some Jedi discover the old Sith teachings, grow in power and wage a new war on the Republic. It takes a thousand years but they are finally defeated. They are utterly wiped out except for one, Darth Bane. Bane decides that the Sith were defeated by their own infighting than anything else so he decides that there should be only two Sith at a time. He passes the name Darth onto his apprentice and this process continues for the next thousand years as the Sith remain shadowy manipulators.

Now, we arrive at episode I. The Republic is corrupt, the Jedi don’t know that the Sith still exist and the Galaxies large corporations police themselves and maintain large droid armies. And thus, the stage is set for Darth Sidious to begin his plot to take over the Galaxy. Hope you see the movies. They are great. Don’t believe all the junk about I, II and III not being as good, they are simply different.

Well hope that was helpful. :D

It's the brainwashed majority oppressing the shrinking minority who is taking on an impossible task of destroying the majorty. Everyone in the galaxy goes along with the empire out of sheer fear. The evil empire manipulates the public into accepting a perpetual war by using fear and false motives such as "spreading freedom throughout the galaxy," when really, the empire is just expanding its cold arm of death. The small rebellion uses resourcefulness and making peace with the native beings to defeat the empire before the empire destroys the rebellion and all hope of true freedom and democracy is lost; pulled out under the feet of the public who was convinced they were fighting to preserve freedom and democracy, when really, the evil empire was just promoting its neocon agenda to control the galaxy.

I honestly dont see much of differance between the Republic with the Jedi running it and the Empire with the emperor and Vader running it.

They both use force to crush dissidents

The both allow some form of representaion

Why was one considered evil and the other good? Simply because one attempted to build a better weapon?(Death sstar)

I honestly dont see much of differance between the Republic with the Jedi running it and the Empire with the emperor and Vader running it.

They both use force to crush dissidents

The both allow some form of representaion

Why was one considered evil and the other good? Simply because one attempted to build a better weapon?(Death sstar)

Theres a huge difference.

For one, The Jedi didnt use force to crush dissidence, they were mediators for local and galactic disputes.
They were, in a sense, policemen for the Galactic Republic.
However, they were also warriors, and were often called on to defend planets, or civillians from harm, or tyrannical invasions.

They always worked within the laws set by the Galactic Senate.
In fact, enforcing those laws.

The Empire, most assuredly, used force to crush dissidence.
They disbanded the Senate, once the Death Star was built, and blew the hell out of a peaceful unarmed planet to make a point to Princess Leia Organa.

The Jedi didnt just beat the hell out of anyone who dissagreed with thier rulings.
True, if you broke the law, and the crime was large enough, or you were such a dangerous individual that your own planetary law enforcement couldnt handle you.....the Jedi were called in.
Once they found, you..and they always likely would find who they were looking for...duh..theyre jedi...they would likely ask you to surrender, and then cut you down if you didnt.

Whats the difference?

The Jedi didnt force you to join the Republic, and adhere to its rules.
The Empire did.

The Empire would not give any warning..if you were a threat, or just unwilling to cooperate..you died.

Finally, let us turn to probably the most popular example there is, one that most everyone of the previous and this generation associate strongly with. This is that of "Star Wars." These films are some of the most easily evident psychodynamic films there are. The Oedipal relationship here is a bold one: we know that Darth Vader is Luke’s father. As for Luke’s mother figure, that role falls appropriately on Leia, still a member of the family. While, after finding out that Leia is his sister, Luke does not want to marry her, this relationship is still a metaphor, as he has to save her from Vader on more than one occasion. But let us think more of the direct conflict between father and son. This conflict is evident enough, along with the temptation to become "like his father" which is easily seen as the temptation to give up, and to identify with the father in the actual Oedipal conflict as Vader had done with the Emperor. What is psychoanalytically delicious is the manner that they fight—they battle each other with long sticks that glow and pulsate with energy. These are excellent phallic symbols, flowing with libidinal energy. They also attempt to battle each other by using their control of "the Force" which is a perfect analogy for libido, the driving force behind all life forms. And in the end, we are satisfied, for Luke wins. In addition to this, we have a second satisfaction in that Vader wins his own Oedipal conflict, in killing his father-figure, the emperor.

But to stop at the Oedipal theme in "Star Wars" would be to overlook a wealth of psychoanalytic themes. Subsequent to the conflict, we find the id represented in R2D2, who communicates only on a level which fellow droids understand, but is able to project images (dreams) and is often the leader of the two, and even guides Luke in one of his triumphant flights. This makes C3P0 the superego, as he is never far behind R2D2, always nagging, always reprimanding, looking down on him from above, and communicating in the same language with R2D2 (unconscious communication) yet able to communicate to people in English (conscious experiencing of conscience). As we find R2D2 appropriately paired with C3P0, this relationship is amusing, not disturbing. However, we find an unmitigated id in the figure of Jaba the Hut, who is almost pure id. He never moves, and is instantly gratified by eating and playing with his sexy slaves; furthermore, Jedi mind tricks (guilt) do not work on him at all. And, as this is obvious to our superego what he represents, we feel appropriately repulsed and disgusted by him. Before leaving this tangent, there is one more very interesting level that "Star Wars" works on—this is the archetypal level. While this is a very sensitive area between Freudians and Jungians, I would like to sidestep those issues, and, for the purposes of this paper, consider the archetypal level as one which agrees with the psychoanalytic perspective. One of the great representations on this level is seen at the end of the first released film, where Luke destroys the Death Star. This is symbolic of conception in many ways. First of all, the proportions of the Death Star to the fighters are similar to that of the egg and sperm. While there are many fighters, only one can fly in the ridge of the death star, and hit the small and exact target. And, of course, one must shoot the target (ejaculation), an action that Luke employs the Force (again, libido) to perform. Someone even says that his shot is "one in a million." And when he successfully hits the target, fertilizing the egg, the Death star explodes. One can see this as a huge explosion of death—the satisfaction of the death drive, Thanatos, which shares a polar relationship with the life drive, Eros. It is simply inverted for the purposes of the story (it would not suit to have an explosion of life), and could even be seen as a sort of anticipatory reaction formation, so that the watcher’s superego does not realize that the ego is enjoying the act of conception (which, of course, implies repressed sexual desires). Furthermore, we see great use of archetypes in Vader who makes a great Shadow, as well as in Darth Maul and Qui-gon (from "Episode I"), who seem to almost perfectly represent Satan and Christ.


There you go

http://www.dspp.com/papers/kluge.htm


The biggest load of crap Ive ever seen.

Since nobody else answered the question:

Episode 1: The Phantom Menace
- politically, Palpatine becomes chancellor of the Republic, and the trade federation is chastised for their blockade of Palpatine's home planet of Naboo.
- action wise, there's a cool 'pod' race, and probably the best swordfight of the series
- character wise, Anakin is a ten year old kid but you can see he's got quite a future ahead of him

Episode 2: Attack of the Clones
- politically, Palpatine gets executive powers, in order to attack the separatist forces trying to break away from the Republic. The trade federation is one of the (lesser) separatist forces.
- action wise, there's some fun encounters with a bounty hunter including a nifty chase through some asteroids, and a big arena battle scene at the end
- character wise, Anakin has been made a Jedi-in-training under Obi-Wan's tutelage

Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith
- politically, Palpatine becomes the first emperor of the Galactic Empire, turning the Republic into an enormous dictatorship. The separatist army is 'defeated' (it was a tool of Palpatine's all along so he could become emperor)
- action wise, great space battle and one swordfight after another
- character wise, Anakin switches sides and joins Palpatine as one of the Sith (anti-Jedi)

Episode 4: A New Hope
- politically, a rebellion of freedom fighters is struggling against the Empire's might, with some significant success.
- action wise, great character-driven story including a prison break and another space battle.
- character wise, Anakin (now Darth Vader) throws his weight around, while Luke Skywalker (his son) joins the rebellion.

Episode 5: The Empire Stikes Back
- politically, the Empire trounces (but does not entirely defeat) the rebellion
- action wise, there's a great battle scene on an ice world, Luke gets some training as a Jedi, and other rebellion characters are pursued by Empire forces
- character wise, Darth Vader is at his nastiest, and Luke is learning things the hard way (including who his father is).

Episode 6: Return of the Jedi
- politically, both the Empire and the rebellion face off in one final battle
- action wise, there's another prison break, some great action scenes on a forest planet, and the coolest space battle of the series.
- character wise, Palpatine and Darth Vader try to lure Luke to the dark side, just like Palpatine did to Anakin in Episode 3.

Obviously I haven't included everything that happens, but it wouldn't be as much fun to watch if you knew the rest.

ok.. so where does Captain Jean Luc Picard fits in all of these?

ok.. so where does Captain Jean Luc Picard fits in all of these?
You have failed me for the last time!

*force-chokes Greedy Gamorrean* :p

You have failed me for the last time!

*force-chokes Greedy Gamorrean* :p

lol. the Diet Coke I had in my mouth almost ended up all over my monitor and keyboard...

The Jedi didnt force you to join the Republic, and adhere to its rules.

Tell that to the Seperatists.

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/006071.php
Ahh, pretty decent surmise of Star Wars, except for one thing:
How does the Star Wars Xmas special fit into all this?

http://www.dspp.com/papers/kluge.htm


The biggest load of crap Ive ever seen.
I always wonder reading these pyscho-analytical wank pieces.
It seems to me that the person is not so much describing the movie as projecting their own inadequacies and hang-ups onto the movie.
This author's father obviously had too little time for him, and his mother was far too protective if you ask me.

Tell that to the Separatists.
ohhh...exelente...magnifico !!!

very good point indeed...

BTW I can see the differences between the Sith and the Jedi philosophies...and I am pro Jedi.

but he has an excellent point.

star wars is about balance. in the first movie, a jedi finds a young boy with a high amount of the energy of the force, thinks he is the one who was prophesised to bring balance to the force. in the second, he gets married. in the third, he destroys all the jedi [the good side], making the bad side of the force much stronger, wife gives birth to twins. in the fourth, the son, luke, starts to become one of the first jedi in about twenty years and destroys his fathers huge battle station. in the fifth the son learns that the evil guy that he swore to defeat was his father and his fathers master tries to lure luke into being evil. in the sixth, luke connects to his father who then destroys his master, destroying the bad side. that makes no good and no evil, thus balance. DO NOT READ THE BOOKS!!! the books defy the basic meanings of star wars and are just made to make money!!!!!!!!!!

lol. the Diet Coke I had in my mouth almost ended up all over my monitor and keyboard...
Is that why the tractor beam didn't work? Lord Vader will be most displeased if he ever gets knowledge of that...

:D I just love it when well-placed quotes work!

Ahh, pretty decent surmise of Star Wars, except for one thing:
How does the Star Wars Xmas special fit into all this?
OMG! Please, for everything that is dear to you - never, ever, mention this again, please!!! It does not exist. Never did. No. Uh-uh. Nein. Just... Don't.

OMG! Please, for everything that is dear to you - never, ever, mention this again, please!!! It does not exist. Never did. No. Uh-uh. Nein. Just... Don't.
I downloaded it the other day, and tried to watch it but couldn't get past the wookie scene.
I can understand why Lucas wants to destroy every copy.

I downloaded it the other day, and tried to watch it but couldn't get past the wookie scene.
I can understand why Lucas wants to destroy every copy.got a link?

Watch the movies. Since you already know a lot of the surprisees in episodes IV-VI, I'd suggest watching from I to VI, instead of the order they were released.

At the heart it's about Anakin Skywalker's rise, fall, and redemption. I think it would be best if you just watched them without knowing anything else.

@ OceanDrive: If you haven't seen it, be grateful and don't. It's terrible. Go see the Muppet-Special. That's at least funny.

You know what Ben said when the X-Mas Special came out?
I felt a great disturbance in the Force... as if millions of
voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear
something terrible has happened.

You have failed me for the last time!

*force-chokes Greedy Gamorrean* :p
Great, I just had to stand up, go to the fridge, grab a Diet Coke, return to the PC, and take a drink, just so I could spill it all over the monitor when I laughed. That's a lot of work!

Following the realease of the third movie, I have been wondering what the whole star wars theme is all about. It seems like its a great story etc. and I want to read one of the books just to see what its like.

Could somone (preferably a star wars fan) briefly explain to me the story line of star wars. Also which books and/or movies cover the parts of the story line. As an example: Episode 1 covers.......

Thanks for all your help, maybe it will inspire me to read the books and maybe get into it.
The oldest story in the world: the battle between good ( the Jedi, Force, etc. ) against evil ( the Sith, the Emperor, etc. ).

Star Wars is about fatherhood.

We start with a fatherless (literally) child, Anakin Skywalker, who finds a father-figure by chance, Qui-Gon Jinn. Qui-Gon takes Anakin under his wing, free's him by swindling Watto.

Qui-Gon dies, and Anakin gains a new, less experienced father-figure, Obi-Wan Kenobi, who is sceptical about Skywalker. We also see the possibility of another father-figure for Anakin (Palpatine/Sidious, who says "We shall be watching your career with great interest") which leads us into Episode II.

In Episode II, father (Obi-Wan) and son (Anakin) are increasingly frustrated with each other.

In Episode III, Obi-Wan and Anakin have become less frustrated, no doubt because of the intensity of the Clone Wars.

In the meantime, Anakin's prospective father figure, Palpatine, begins moving to corrupt Anakin, and turn him against the Jedi.

Episode III ends with Anakin completely rejecting the father figures who have loved and nurtured him, for Darth Sidious. It leads into Episode IV by showing Anakin's son, Luke, with Luke's first father figure, Owen Lars.

Luke and Owen are frustrated with each other, and this frustration paralells that between Obi-Wan and Anakin.

Luke wants adventure, excitement. He wants the stars. Owen is solid and practical. He wants to do moisture farming, and live a quiet, happy life with Beru. He can't understand Luke's craving, just as Luke can't understand why he can't go to the stars.

The arrival of R2-D2 and C3P0, and the Empire point Luke to a father who understands him, and whom he can understand, Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Episode V sees Obi-Wan direct Luke to a new father-figure. One who can teach him better. By the end, Luke finds out who his real father is, and this sets the scene for Episode VI, Luke's redemption of Anakin Skywalker, and in the end, we see Luke's real father's together, at one with The Force.

The oldest story in the world: the battle between good ( the Jedi, Force, etc. ) against evil ( the Sith, the Emperor, etc. ).

OK some of you people are just twisted. How can a Baby-snatching Religious Cult that says publicly they are peaceful while training in the deadliest weapon only they can create, and magically changing the minds of less gifted people Possibly be the GOOD GUYS?!?!?! :confused:

The Sith use magic too, but they have to hide their ability, religion, and numbers in the shadows or else they'll be summarily executed for not being of the majority religion. Also there is only Darth Maul was raised since childhood to be a Sith, otherwise all other Sith were honest & meaningful converty of their own violition, not like brainwashed Jedi children handling deadly weapons as early as 6 years old.

What would a psychiatrist say about a cult which demands it's followers be more emotionless that the programed clones they command? It is much more healthy to express one's hate and love, fear and confidence; than to be more dead inside than the burlap cloaks they wear.

Everything Palpatine told Anikin was truth. Everything Obiwan told Luke was a lie. So choose to think the Jedi are good if you wish, I suppose they are, "...From a certain point of view." -Obiwan Kenobi

But yes, at it's heart Star Wars is a lengthy battle between good and evil.

Check out the link for more info.

http://www.flin.demon.co.uk/swars.htm

Tell that to the Seperatists.

The Seperatists joined with the Trade Federation Droid army,and were attacking peaceful start systems.

However, keep in mind that this was orchestrated by one man, Palpatine, in conjunction of the creation of a Clone Army, wich would fall immediately under his direct control, all without having to reveal himself as a Sith Lord.

The Jedi didnt start the war, that was all Palpatine.

Jedi good..

Sith cooler....but bad.

OK some of you people are just twisted. How can a Baby-snatching Religious Cult that says publicly they are peaceful while training in the deadliest weapon only they can create, and magically changing the minds of less gifted people Possibly be the GOOD GUYS?!?!?! :confused:

I cant help but see this as comedy, so I'll bite.
The Jedi never claim to be peaceful. They do claim to not use the Force out of anger, or fear, or agression.
Much like any martial art..(and the jedi are much like Shaolin Monks that work for the government) the highest levels teach that peace and tranquility are paramount.
Only in the defense of self, or others.

The Sith use magic too, but they have to hide their ability, religion, and numbers in the shadows or else they'll be summarily executed for not being of the majority religion.

Thats because the Sith do things like choke the life out of people from across the room, and electrocute the bejeezis out of anyone who even looks at em funny.
They're bastards like that. The harsh treatment of such bastards is paramount to civiliaztion.

Also there is only Darth Maul was raised since childhood to be a Sith,
No. All Jedi (well most anyway) are trained from about age 2-4.

otherwise all other Sith were honest & meaningful converty of their own violition, not like brainwashed Jedi children handling deadly weapons as early as 6 years old.

I highly doubt Anakin really had much choice in the end.
Destiny is a bitch like that.
As for little kids playing with lightsabers, these are kids that can read your mind, or even influence your thoughts..and can see the future, past and present.
Quite exceptional lil kids, I'd say.

All in all, it was a Star Wars movie, and an apology for the previous two.

Three points:
1. Whomever wrote the Padme/Aniken dialogue should be drawn and quartered.

2. There was too much CGI in the lightsabre battles, especially with Yoda... it was hard to follow in some sequences.

3. This should have been Episode 2. They should have made Ep 1&2 into ONE movie, then done a third about the Clone Wars. As it stands, Obi Wan is going into hiding on Tatooine... so when does he serve Senator Organa? :(

What is Star Wars all about?

Episode IV: a throw back to space-operas in book and (generally crap) film form from the early part of the 20th Century.

Episode V and VI: the continuation of the story, partly because the first film was such a success, and partly because the newly invented marketing side of film-making (toys, t-shirts, lunch-boxes, posters etc. etc. etc.) was even more of a success.

Episode I to III: the most cynical marketing decisions and corporate-driven hype currently made by man, notwithstanding Lord of the Rings. (Jar Jar Binks inflatable chairs anyone?) I particularly enjoyed the way the PS2 game was released at least 2 months before Episode III came out.

See? Easy.

All in all, it was a Star Wars movie, and an apology for the previous two.

Three points:
1. Whomever wrote the Padme/Aniken dialogue should be drawn and quartered.

2. There was too much CGI in the lightsabre battles, especially with Yoda... it was hard to follow in some sequences.

3. This should have been Episode 2. They should have made Ep 1&2 into ONE movie, then done a third about the Clone Wars. As it stands, Obi Wan is going into hiding on Tatooine... so when does he serve Senator Organa? :(

Are you really asking for plot continuity? Absolutely nothing makes sense after III. I am half tempted to point out the logical silliness, but I will restrain myself.

To amuse myself, let me bring up 1 point.

Jedi hve to be able to continuously see into the immediate future. They have to be able to do this in order to deflect blaster shots. Why? because blaster fire moves at the speed of light. If the Jedi puts his saber in position to deflect a shot after a shot is fired then his hands must be moving at least close to/or above the speed of light. This change in acceleration/velociity would break his bones. So a jedi has to do this before it is fired, yet he cant figure out that the clones are going to shoot him in the back? how does this make sense?

"1. Whomever wrote the Padme/Aniken dialogue should be drawn and quartered."

Whomever wrote the Padme/Anakin dialogue realised that we are not dealing with well adjusted, mature adults capable of having an adult relationship, but two very isolated, very immature people, one of whom has been living in palaces since her early teens and has only met one guy who wasn't some Naboo government flunky, the other a former slave boy who has known 3 women in his life; his mother; the strange woman who warns of sand-storms; and Padme.

The people who write all the rest of the teenage romance dialogue are the ones who should be drawn and quartered.

I cant help but see this as comedy, so I'll bite.
Actually, I honestly mean it. I support the Empire and the Sith.

The Jedi never claim to be peaceful. They do claim to not use the Force out of anger, or fear, or agression.
Or love or hope or pride, or attatchment.

Much like any martial art..(and the jedi are much like Shaolin Monks that work for the government) the highest levels teach that peace and tranquility are paramount.
Only in the defense of self, or others.
Actually the Order was seperate from the government until Palpatine subsidized it. And they did promote peace, through domination. Also there were times when Jedi interferance was unwanted by both sides of a dispute.

Thats because the Sith do things like choke the life out of people from across the room, and electrocute the bejeezis out of anyone who even looks at em funny.
They're bastards like that. The harsh treatment of such bastards is paramount to civiliaztion.
OK, if Jedi assassins came after me, I shock 'em. And if my wife was consorting with a traitor, and possibly having an affair with him, I'd choke her. If you are referring to the original trilogy, you appearently didn't follow the link. To put in a small portion:
"Vader was a ruthless disciplinarian. He executed officers under him who had disobeyed orders in the face of the enemy - allowable under the rules of war. (Luke) Skywalker hurt others simply, it seems, to show off. Which is worse?"

No. All Jedi (well most anyway) are trained from about age 2-4.
Which just supports that the Jedi were baby snatchers. The point I was making is that Maul was the only raised Sith, and other Sith chose to be.

I highly doubt Anakin really had much choice in the end.
Destiny is a bitch like that.
That, and a determined magician changing a dice roll. So he actually wasn't abducted from his crib, little Ani was still obtained dishonestly by an over eager master swordsman who was ready to abandon his current student in leiu of one with more potential. Very admirable intentions, yeah right.

As for little kids playing with lightsabers, these are kids that can read your mind, or even influence your thoughts..and can see the future, past and present.
Quite exceptional lil kids, I'd say.
And if they hadn't been brainwashed into warriors, maybe they would've used their exceptional abilities to make great scientific discoveries, medical advances, be succesful Holovid Stars, or lead their small village into prosperity. The choice should've been theirs to make when they came of age. Had they then chosen to become Jedi at that time, at least it would've been an educated descision.

Star Wars is the tragic story of one mans fight against the corruption of his society and it's growing decadence. This man is willing to sacrifice everything, becoming scarred in mind and body, in order to bring peace and stability to a fractured and falling civilisation. It is a tragedy because he fails, because others don't understand the stern precepts of self imposed duty - it is a tragedy because even one whose life he saves turns on him.

Rest in Peace, Palpatine - at least you tried.

"1. Whomever wrote the Padme/Aniken dialogue should be drawn and quartered."

Whomever wrote the Padme/Anakin dialogue realised that we are not dealing with well adjusted, mature adults capable of having an adult relationship, but two very isolated, very immature people, one of whom has been living in palaces since her early teens and has only met one guy who wasn't some Naboo government flunky, the other a former slave boy who has known 3 women in his life; his mother; the strange woman who warns of sand-storms; and Padme.

The people who write all the rest of the teenage romance dialogue are the ones who should be drawn and quartered.

Ah yes, I went out and bought the first three books yesterday ( I think the books are better then movies). I have to agree, it is a bit odd when you have a teenager and a 9 year old being all sappy and such. Also the lady who warns of sand storms's name is Jiva I think.

You know, I only post occasionally on this site now, but this is SO ridiculous that it merits a response.

Actually, I honestly mean it. I support the Empire and the Sith.
Wow. Just wow. Your link comes from a website making fun of the essay you cite, which originally came from a racist organization. Talk about self incrimination.

Or love or hope or pride, or attatchment.
The Sith aren't fans of any of these emotions. They, in fact, prefer anger. I didn't see Vader being compassionate about the billions of innocents murdered on Alderaan.

Actually the Order was seperate from the government until Palpatine subsidized it. And they did promote peace, through domination. Also there were times when Jedi interferance was unwanted by both sides of a dispute.
Domination here is a tricky word. By this definition, any organization which keeps the peace through superior strength is inherently detestable. You would thus advocate banning the police, the military...functionally, the state. Street gangs don't want interference by the police. The police do it anyway, to protect the greater good.

Not only that, but the Jedi never killed without provocation. Jedi sent to mediate disputes never used force simply because they could, but only if they were attacked or fighting was about to break out.

OK, if Jedi assassins came after me, I shock 'em. And if my wife was consorting with a traitor, and possibly having an affair with him, I'd choke her.
Herm, if you were a megalomaniac who had manipulated a boy into believing that his wife was about to die and only doing your bidding could save her to me doesn't sound like an admirable career path. It sounds a bit fascistic to me. Only a bit.

The Jedi came after Palpatine because he was tapping into a power which inevitably brings death and destruction wherever it goes. Apparently you didn't get the memo about the Death Star. Or the Sun Crusher. Or Wookiee enslavement. Or the massacre of dissidents. You get the idea.

If you are referring to the original trilogy, you appearently didn't follow the link. To put in a small portion:
"Vader was a ruthless disciplinarian. He executed officers under him who had disobeyed orders in the face of the enemy - allowable under the rules of war. (Luke) Skywalker hurt others simply, it seems, to show off. Which is worse?"
First, they didn't disobey orders. They carried them out incorrectly. That's like saying someone should die because they get a D on a test they studied hours for. Not cool. By the way, I'd like to see the treaty that allows for summary execution without trial.

Tell me the Luke incident you refer to. Because I don't remember it. You know what I do remember? Threatening billions of people to coerce one person, then blowing them up even after she nominally cooperates.

Which just supports that the Jedi were baby snatchers. The point I was making is that Maul was the only raised Sith, and other Sith chose to be.
Irrelevant. So someone was born into a household that told them that democracy was the best political system, and someone else chose to be a Nazi. Does that make the Nazi better?

Not only that, but Force powers can be really dangerous to a young person if they aren't trained to use them properly. Think of it like foster care.

That, and a determined magician changing a dice roll. So he actually wasn't abducted from his crib, little Ani was still obtained dishonestly by an over eager master swordsman who was ready to abandon his current student in leiu of one with more potential. Very admirable intentions, yeah right.
He didn't want to abandon Obi-Wan; he thought Anakin had potential to do great good for the universe. He took Anakin from slavery through magic. If I had a wand that I could have used to get rid of slavery back before the US Civil War, would I have used that want? Damn straight.

And if they hadn't been brainwashed into warriors, maybe they would've used their exceptional abilities to make great scientific discoveries, medical advances, be succesful Holovid Stars, or lead their small village into prosperity. The choice should've been theirs to make when they came of age. Had they then chosen to become Jedi at that time, at least it would've been an educated descision.
I'm not sure how force powers could do anything but the latter. Anyway, I'd trade galactic peace for any of that in a heartbeat. Remember how there were functionally no wars during the Republic period, unless they were challenged by the...Sith! Ridiculous.


Essentially, the Dark Side empirically (pun intended) turns people against their friends and loved ones, causes an insane desire for power which in turn causes them to start bloody wars and instigate murderous coup d'tats just to allow them to dominate more people than they already did, leads to the destruction of representative democracy, places non-human races in slavery (the only exception being Thrawn because he's a genius; it'd be like the Nazis using Einstein to design them weapons), committing campaigns of genocide against either alien planets or human planets which harbor even the smallest vestige of dissent, and did I mention blowing up an innocent planet earlier in this post? Oh wait. <I forgot. The Empire was also blatantly sexist.>

The Light Side? Kept peace across a galaxy for thousands of years with the least amount of violence possible, had equal opportunity for all races and genders and representative democracy, did not commit genocide, and generally made the galaxy a nice place to live.

Give me a break.

Star Wars is the tragic story of one mans fight against the corruption of his society and it's growing decadence. This man is willing to sacrifice everything, becoming scarred in mind and body, in order to bring peace and stability to a fractured and falling civilisation. It is a tragedy because he fails, because others don't understand the stern precepts of self imposed duty - it is a tragedy because even one whose life he saves turns on him.

Rest in Peace, Palpatine - at least you tried.
Again, infuriatingly humorous. Palpatine intentionally sacrifices jack shit. He kills billions of innocent people (not just on Alderaan - Imperial purges of other planets with orbital bombardments, stormtrooper raids, poison gas, and biological warfare are an accepted fact of Star Wars literature), placed non-humans in secondary positions, and convinced an impressionable teenager that he should aid all of this by playing a mind game with him. Give one example of Republic corruption pre-Palpatine worse than abuses under the Imperial system. You can't. You know why? Because the writers wanted to write a good-and-evil morality tale. The bad guys are, well, bad. Pretending otherwise to appease some strange conceit of being the Devil's advocate is laughable.

You know, I only post occasionally on this site now, but this is SO ridiculous that it merits a response.
Well, it's plain to see I don't post often, I'm up to what about 20?

which originally came from a racist organization. Talk about self incrimination.
No, a racist organization linked to this essay. It was not written for it.

I didn't see Vader being compassionate about the billions of innocents murdered on Alderaan.
Oh, yeah. Cause his life preserving helmet is SO expressive. He did however place a comforting hand on Leiah's shoulder, even without knowing she was his daughter.


Not only that, but the Jedi never killed without provocation. Jedi sent to mediate disputes never used force simply because they could, but only if they were attacked or fighting was about to break out.
There have been many occasions when I myself have been about to attack somebody, but restrained myself at the last microsecond. So is it right for someone to attack me when I want to attack someone else? Here the Jedi are just merciless Thought Police cutting limbs off of anyone with an attitude.


Herm, if you were a megalomaniac who had manipulated a boy into believing that his wife was about to die and only doing your bidding could save her to me doesn't sound like an admirable career path. It sounds a bit fascistic to me. Only a bit.
He had nothing to do with convincing the boy his wife was about to die, his own prophetic dreams did that. And the old man did posses the power he claimed, he used it on the boy. The boy might've learned it in time, but his estimaed time table (based on a previous accurate prophetic dream) was way off.

The Jedi came after Palpatine because he was tapping into a power which inevitably brings death and destruction wherever it goes. Apparently you didn't get the memo about the Death Star. Or the Sun Crusher. Or Wookiee enslavement. Or the massacre of dissidents. You get the idea.
Yeah, and the angelic Jedi NEVER killed anyone or caused destruction of property. The large cooling unit (I belive that's what it was) dropped onto the IG Godyguards, the Wookie workers & contract laborers who were building the 2nd Death Star when they were blown to atomic particles by Jedi Allies. And who was it that used the Sun Crusher to destroy the Cardia solar system? Luke Skywalker's own student Kip Durron.



Tell me the Luke incident you refer to. Because I don't remember it. You know what I do remember? Threatening billions of people to coerce one person, then blowing them up even after she nominally cooperates.
The dutyful Gammorean Guards attempting to halt anyone's ingress without proper authorization. Did they truely deserve death, could there have been another way? I will give you that Tarkin went too far, he was too eager to test out his new toy. But even with his horrendul actions did she tell him the truth? NO. Like Tarkin, another beacon of evil was a non Force user, the devornian in the Cantina, The Butcher of Montellian Serat.


Irrelevant. So someone was born into a household that told them that democracy was the best political system, and someone else chose to be a Nazi. Does that make the Nazi better?
That does not make the Nazi party better, but at least the individual Nazi you hypothetically refer to had the option of free will. And free will IS better.

Not only that, but Force powers can be really dangerous to a young person if they aren't trained to use them properly. Think of it like foster care.
Oh yes, the Force was so dangerous by allowing Ani to SURVIVE multiple races that no other human could, without any training. In foster care children are raised by those not their parents yes, but they are allowed to socialize & play & have friends outside of their foster home. The Jedi raise children with the same care & expectations as the character Todd in the movie Soldier, and he had a very happy childhood. If the Force powers weren't involved with the Jedi, their society would be very similar to THX-1138; Lucas' first movie.

[QUOTE=Deleuze]He didn't want to abandon Obi-Wan; he thought Anakin had potential to do great good for the universe. He took Anakin from slavery through magic. If I had a wand that I could have used to get rid of slavery back before the US Civil War, would I have used that want? Damn straight.
And that would be very noble of you. Did Qui-gon free all the slaves in Hutt Space? (equating it to the CSA in this instance) Or even all the slaves on Tatooine? Nope, he chose the creme da la creme and left the rest of them to their miserable lives. Granted, he was correct in his predictions, right up until Anikin joined his evil son.


I'm not sure how force powers could do anything but the latter. Anyway, I'd trade galactic peace for any of that in a heartbeat. Remember how there were functionally no wars during the Republic period, unless they were challenged by the...Sith! Ridiculous.
If a boy can sense when to dodge his racer surely a Village Elder/ Tribal Leader could predict the rains, or how the nerf herds will migrate. As for galactic peace, it's a big deal for the big wigs, but did the Clone Wars ever impact Owen Lars until he had a baby dumped on him? Functionally no wars, that means what: police actions, military advising, blockade negotiations? But the again with the Jedi Gestapo who but the Sith had a chance in a war?


Oh wait. <I forgot. The Empire was also blatantly sexist.>
Admiral Daala managed to do quite well for herself. As did Ysanne Isard, Director of Imperial Intelligence. Both of these ladies gained their positions during Palpatine's rule, and both eventually in addition to their other duties commanded Super Star Destroyers. Not bad for any Imperial Officer, regardless of species or gender.


The Light Side? Kept peace across a galaxy for thousands of years with the least amount of violence possible, had equal opportunity for all races and genders and representative democracy, did not commit genocide, and generally made the galaxy a nice place to live.
The Jedi kept relative peace for thousands of yeas using surgical strikes, only discriminated against those without Force ability and those Force users not of their order, were on the cusp of forming a Theocracy before falling, controlled select peoples minds through a power the people (except a few rare races) had no power to defend against, and generally made the galaxy a nice place to live if you were with them.

And if my wife was consorting with a traitor, and possibly having an affair with him, I'd choke her.

:eek: I sure hope you are kidding. Otherwise you need help!

Anyway, my two cents.

The Jedi are defiantly the good guys. They have the best grasp of the Force. They forsake attachments, like love, because it is dangerous to them because it can creat fear. And we all know that "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to the Dark Side." The Dark Side ultimately turns you into a perversion of what you once were. Anakin loved Padme more than anything, yet he killed her. The Sith ARE evil. They don't deny it. Terms like dark and shadow never have positive connotations. You can even look at their names:

Maul: To maul someone is to harm them horribly
Vader: yes, I know it means father in Dutch but it sounds like invader
Tyrannus (Dooku): Tyrant, someone who rules harshly without legal authority
Sidious: Insidious, to slowly destroy

The Seperatists joined with the Trade Federation Droid army,and were attacking peaceful start systems.

However, keep in mind that this was orchestrated by one man, Palpatine, in conjunction of the creation of a Clone Army, wich would fall immediately under his direct control, all without having to reveal himself as a Sith Lord.

The Jedi didnt start the war, that was all Palpatine.

Not quite true: the war was originally triggered when the Jedi attacked the forge-world of Geonosis, in the attempt to rescue prisoners who had been sentenced to death by local courts for the murder of a number of Geonosian factory workers while attempting to rescue a third prisoner who was being held for espionage.

This rescue attempt (involving something in the region of 200 Jedi) was rapidly followed-up by a full-scale invasion (orchestrated by the Jedi Master Yoda), which saw the destruction of most surface installations across Geonosis, the majority of the Geonosian people being forced to flee into the tunnels below to escape the Republic soldiers.