NationStates Jolt Archive

I've been meaning to post this for a while. As opposed to many of my somewhat joking threads and posts, I thought I would really share something of mine. Care not if you dont, but please read it, and at least give your opinion, for or against it.

I oft hear the word terrorism, and indeed, it is always used in a negative connotation. But what is terrorism, other than a method of getting others to comply with you out of fear? It sounds bad, but look at it in another light.

Crime and punishment: Virtually all systems on earth use a system of punishment for crime, a deterance system of not doing what the government doesn't wish for you to do, by threatening consequences. Many are killed, or jailed, or fined for not complying with the laws, and their sentences are often more about detering others than punishment or help.

How is this different than, say, Al-queda? AQ(shortened) is trying to deter people from a course of action, by threatening consequences. Some have done what AQ is against, and so they have "punished" people for it. Both partially work, detering some while being inneffective on people who constantly do it. Both are trying to achieve a greater good. The only real difference is what the belief systems are, and how well they can deliver on their promises. A tertiary factor is how well they are put in media.

Would one not call the US government a terrorist organization? They constantly threaten governments with consequences if they pursue certain means. Are you, or your fellow citizens terrorists? Have none of you ever threatened consequences based on possible actions?

The name terrorist is more literally a non-mainstream use of terror tactics. Most people dont agree with what the so called terrorists, such as AQ, say. So a derogatory name was designed for them, terrorists.

There is only one difference between these terrorists, and almost anybody else. A difference in beliefs, and in tactical planning(as opposed to strategic). So if you disagree with their beliefs, feel free to condemn them for it. But do not condemn their tactics, and turn a blind eye to your government, nearly every other government, and nearly every other person on the planet. Just because its not a car-bomb in baghdad, doesnt mean the exact same thing doesnt occur in America, Spain, Kenya, or any other nation in the world.

We need a more precise definition of terrorism...then this question wouldn't arise.

Its more like a statement then a question though. Besides, anyone in his right mind will have seen this by himself before ;)

When the U.S. attempts to deter people from a course of action by punishing crime the person gets a trial by a jury of his peers before punishment is dolled out to the offending party. However, terrorists kill thousands if not millions of inncoents who may not even agree with the goverments the terrorists oppose. To even compare the most succsesful justice system in the history of the world with brain-washed young men blowing themselves up at the behest of some Arabian aristocrat is just ridiculous. To compare it to U.S. foregin policy is also ridiculous, The U.S.'s actions are taken to protect itself and sometimes other nations. Terrorists couldn't care less what happens to their people or anyone else because they are brain-washed naive hate-mongerers who serve masters who cling to power by creating scapegoats and forcing an opressive religon on their populace.

However, terrorists kill thousands if not millions of inncoents who may not even agree with the goverments the terrorists oppose

Note: domestic terrorism can indeed lead to massacres. Millions however are only reached if you are looking at periods of multiple years/decades of sustained terrorism attacks. In shorter periods that type of genocide is only done by a government (unless one call Darfour and such terrorism ?)
International terrorism attacks seldom claim more than a 100, and at most a few 1000. On a yearly basis that is less than most diseases.

Of course, it still is a bad thing, and should be fought. But the "terror" part is somewhat overrated when one puts things into perspective.

Terrorism is where a group of people of like minds stand together to over throw a government because they feel oppressed.

Freedom Fighters is where a group of people of like minds stand together to over throw a government because they feel oppressed.

So what is the difference ? Easy Freedom Fighters are supported by the American government and Terrorist's attack a government supported by the American government.

I just have one Question. Why AQ looked at as the biggest terrorist in the world. Out side of Muslim countries, how many attacks have there been, 4 at the most. 911, Bali, Spain and i think one more but i can't remember.

What have to remember is that AQ never existed until the US wanted to convict Bin Lardin with out him being there.

The US also trained him and gave him all his money, why so he could set up camps for Freedom Fighters to overthrow Muslim governments.

So why did he change, because the US didn't want to get rid of Sadam Hussian. Ironic really.

We need a more precise definition of terrorism...then this question wouldn't arise.


DoD defines terrorism:The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence against people or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives.

Lickerty Split
The US also trained him and gave him all his money, why so he could set up camps for Freedom Fighters to overthrow Muslim governments.

Correction: We gave him money so he could fight against the USSR, which was attempting to take over Afganistan. The fact that he needed a new scapegoat to keep himself and his associates in power is the ONLY reason he turned on us. All this fanatical Islam stuff and all that "America is the Great Saten" bs is merely a tool that he and others like him use to brain-wash young muslims.

"Tierrrorrists" and "Tierrrorrist Oarrgainiezazioens" are people and groups who oppose the Bush government. By common sense, yes, the U.S. government, both current and historically, is a terrorist organisation with a whole lot of terrorists working for it's cause and supporting it.
But if it said in that accent, it simply means people or groups the U.S. government and U.S. multinationals see as a threat.

Anyway, Global Warming is much more of an imminent reality than terrorism is. Political games, hatred and war can be worked out after we secure the planet's survival for the next century or two. As it is, there is a point of no return just over the horizon, and we really need to start running the other way.

Sosato
Anyway, Global Warming is much more of an imminent reality than terrorism is. Political games, hatred and war can be worked out after we secure the planet's survival for the next century or two. As it is, there is a point of no return just over the horizon, and we really need to start running the other way.

LOL :D Great joke really whoo. I'd almost forgotten that people still beleived in that fairy tale. Thanks fo the laughs.

(In all seriousness you should really read State of Fear by Michael Chrichton)

Its a little known fact that the name Al-queda was actually coined by the CIA to descibe a congomeration of many terrorist cells they were keeping an eye on because they thought they *might* have some kind of link, this of course is bullshit. Al-queda doesn't exist, it never has its a US government construct to justify their expansionist foriegn policies such as invasions of Iraq and Afganistan, as well as increasing pressure on the governments of Iran, Syria, and North Korea the so called "Axis of Evil" its sickening really that people actually fall for this crap and let their government commit hideous crimes agasinst humanity all for the sake of waging war on an abstract noun.

"Guerrilla warfare is entirely opposed to terrorism, but degenerated and weak guerrillas may resort to terrorist tactics. The very nature of terrorism is opposite of popular support; such is the reason why it is reverted to by degenerate and isolated soldiers. Terrorism seeks by violent action, planned by a small group or single individual, to instill fear and terror in the masses and in the government through public bombings (guerrillas attack military, not civilian, targets). Since the birth of terrorism, its end result is alienation of workers, an increasingly repressive government, and the destruction of revolutionary organizations, leaving the mass of the population unprotected by a now sharper and more brutal government."

http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/g/u.htm

Isn't a terrorist someone who targets objects (people, place, thing) that are not combat-orientated(i.e. civilians) and calling them military manouvers?



I don't think a person doing random carnage can be a terrorist simply because of no socio-political ideology that is being furthered. I don't think a country that engages another countries military can be a terrorist either. However, if said country were to target innocent civilians, torture them as a method of achieving their goals, they would rank as terrorists.

Freedom fighters, I believe are attacking goverment and military targets, not the populace of the country. Terrorists are attacking non-combatants.



Peace.

To compare it to U.S. foregin policy is also ridiculous, The U.S.'s actions are taken to protect itself and sometimes other nations.

And how exactly was the US protecting itself when it installed 30+ dictators since the end of WWII?

Terrorists couldn't care less what happens to their people or anyone else because they are brain-washed naive hate-mongerers who serve masters who cling to power by creating scapegoats and forcing an opressive religon on their populace.

Man, you really pinned George down allright. :)

I am interested though to know if you are aware who the scapegoat is this time. :)

Sosato


LOL :D Great joke really whoo. I'd almost forgotten that people still beleived in that fairy tale. Thanks fo the laughs.

(In all seriousness you should really read State of Fear by Michael Chrichton)

It's funny how everyone jumps on the bandwagon whenever anyone writes a book that seems even slightly intellectual.
The book is a load of shit, a conservative think tank knee-jerk reaction to a pretty fucking huge looming problem. The guy has no idea about any science even remotely close to atmospheric and climate related sciences. When an academic book is released which seeks to expose lies and uncover the truth about big theories and such, there is usually a whole bunch of other literature to back it up. In fact, the only thing countering what is being said is the affected party (or parties) and a good advertising campaign.
In this case, he has nothing to back what he is saying up, no library of similar literature, no support from the scientific community. He is just attempting to ease the conscious of SUV drivers and people who otherwise contribute ungodly amounts of greenhouse gasses into the environment.
If you really want to see a "state of fear", dont look at greenies: look at the Bush, Blair and Howard governments.

http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/CIAtimeline.html


Seriously, if you haven't before, read it now.

I think we're leaving out the two main characteristics of terrorism:

1. belief in collective moral responsibility

2. use of secondary targets to affect those against whom charges of injustice are made, rather than taking it to the source directly.

In short, retributivism isn't terrorism (if proportionality is maintained), provided due diligence is done to keep innocents from harm. That's a bare bones definition, but it's a start.

I think we're leaving out the two main characteristics of terrorism:

1. belief in collective moral responsibility

2. use of secondary targets to affect those against whom charges of injustice are made, rather than taking it to the source directly.

In short, retributivism isn't terrorism (if proportionality is maintained), provided due diligence is done to keep innocents from harm. That's a bare bones definition, but it's a start.

But I've been talking about the deterance value of such retributivism. Its there to make people not want to do what the government wishes them not to do, primarialy. They go through with it primarialy so that its not just seen as a bluff.

So many misconceptions so little time:

And how exactly was the US protecting itself when it installed 30+ dictators since the end of WWII?

This dictaters that were installed were anti-communist. By installing these leaders, the U.S. was stopping the spread of Communism, thus protecting the world from the most destructive ideology in the history of the world. (Stalin killed moe human beings than any other leader, ever.)

Man, you really pinned George down allright. I am interested though to know if you are aware who the scapegoat is this time.

I am no fan of Bush, simply a supporter of some of his policies. The simple truth is that the man is a coward and a hypocrite. However, he is not forcing religon on anyone. In many Muslim nations one can be killed simply for being Christian or even not Orthodox Muslim enough. I assume you think that Al-Queda is a scapegout for the U.S. It is not even close to how America is shown in the Islamic world. There the general rule is, "If you can't blame it on a Western conspiracy the people won't beleive it."

It's funny how everyone jumps on the bandwagon whenever anyone writes a book that seems even slightly intellectual.
The book is a load of shit, a conservative think tank knee-jerk reaction to a pretty fucking huge looming problem. The guy has no idea about any science even remotely close to atmospheric and climate related sciences. When an academic book is released which seeks to expose lies and uncover the truth about big theories and such, there is usually a whole bunch of other literature to back it up. In fact, the only thing countering what is being said is the affected party (or parties) and a good advertising campaign.
In this case, he has nothing to back what he is saying up, no library of similar literature, no support from the scientific community. He is just attempting to ease the conscious of SUV drivers and people who otherwise contribute ungodly amounts of greenhouse gasses into the environment.
If you really want to see a "state of fear", dont look at greenies: look at the Bush, Blair and Howard governments.

It is also funny that you assume that I only don't beleive in Global Warming because of "State of Fear". Springtime blizzard in Denver are enough for me and the fact that last year was actually colder than some recent years. As Crichton says in his book which contains a 21 page bibliography citing his sources for the book, (paraphrasing) "It is sad when average people can not question science."

It is also funny that you assume that I only don't beleive in Global Warming because of "State of Fear". Springtime blizzard in Denver are enough for me and the fact that last year was actually colder than some recent years.

And that is inconsistent with global warming because... ?

As Crichton says in his book which contains a 21 page bibliography citing his sources for the book, (paraphrasing) "It is sad when average people can not question science."

They could, if they would actually bother to find out what they are questioning. Attacking evolution with "if men descended from monkeys, why are there stilll monkeys", stellar evolution with "why is all matter perfectly organised" or global warming with "why was it colder last year" is wasting scientists time - since they are the comments of people who do not know what they are talking about.

They could, if they would actually bother to find out what they are questioning. Attacking evolution with "if men descended from monkeys, why are there stilll monkeys", stellar evolution with "why is all matter perfectly organised" or global warming with "why was it colder last year" is wasting scientists time - since they are the comments of people who do not know what they are talking about.

Or could it be that they simply don't have an answer? :D

And if you must beleive in utter rubbish like global warming than move to the U.S. if you don't already live here. It would actually benifit us. Our growing season would increase, thus allowing us to grow even more food than we already do.

Terrorism is where a group of people of like minds stand together to over throw a government because they feel oppressed.

Freedom Fighters is where a group of people of like minds stand together to over throw a government because they feel oppressed.

So what is the difference ? Easy Freedom Fighters are supported by the American government and Terrorist's attack a government supported by the American government.

I just have one Question. Why AQ looked at as the biggest terrorist in the world. Out side of Muslim countries, how many attacks have there been, 4 at the most. 911, Bali, Spain and i think one more but i can't remember.
What have to remember is that AQ never existed until the US wanted to convict Bin Lardin with out him being there.

The US also trained him and gave him all his money, why so he could set up camps for Freedom Fighters to overthrow Muslim governments.

So why did he change, because the US didn't want to get rid of Sadam Hussian. Ironic really. I wonder if you would think this way after your arms have been blown off while sitting on a bus

I wonder if you would think this way after your arms have been blown off while sitting on a bus

Nice statement. The plight of Isreal is so oten forgotten. :( Truly they are the biggest victims of terrorism.

Or could it be that they simply don't have an answer? :D

To these questions they definately do. For completeness sake:

1. The theory does not state humans evolved from monkeys - it states humans and monkeys have a common ancestor. And not everyone evolved into humans because.. drum fill.. in some areas a monkey/ape has better survival chances. By being able to rip a tigers head off for instance.

2. Matter is not perfectly organised.

3. If the earth gives off less heat to space due to an increase of the greenhouse effect this does not mean the earth will evenly warm up everywhere. Parts of western Europe will get much colder if the gulfstream changes for instance. Global warming can in fact result in ice ages.
Sidenote: most people are attacking the idea that humans are responsible for the increase in "global warming", not global warming itself. They just call it natural. Which doesn't mean we as a race should like it.

And if you must beleive in utter rubbish like global warming than move to the U.S. if you don't already live here. It would actually benifit us. Our growing season would increase, thus allowing us to grow even more food than we already do.

You have just proven my point - the theory does not state anything like that at all. Perhaps you should find out what it says before you make assumptions ?

EDIT: however, perhaps this should be continued in a new thread.

So many misconceptions so little time:
This dictaters that were installed were anti-communist. By installing these leaders, the U.S. was stopping the spread of Communism, thus protecting the world from the most destructive ideology in the history of the world. (Stalin killed moe human beings than any other leader, ever.)

Really?
I think the definition of communist is a little stretched by the US.
These were predominately socialist states. Elected Socialist govts. overthrown by self rightious US interests.
By the same definition most of Europe is presently communist.
The US were worried less that the USSR would run the world and more that their private interests would be taken over and their business deals would be made to be favourable to the govts. they dealt with.
They supported terrorists to defend US business and nothing more. Pretty much as they inavede Iraq to defend US business and occupy afganistan to try that old oil pipeline into pakistan business.

You have just proven my point - the theory does not state anything like that at all. Perhaps you should find out what it says before you make assumptions ?

I concede the point that global temperatures are rising slightly. They have been ever since the little ice age ended around 1850. However, if you look at long term data there is no correlation between an increase in temperatures and more CO2 output. The idea expressed before is based on that if the average yearly temperature in the U.S. rose a few degrees our growing season would increase. And about the other stuff, I knew all that I was just being difficult. :D

Anyway, this does tie in with terrorism. Terrorism does not supply the amount of fear needed by society since many Westerners fool themeselves into thinking that the fanatical muslims are not a major threat or that they are only a threat to the nations that fight back against them. So the enviremental organizations of the world, which after 20-30 years are now part of the establishment, step in to fill the void. They create a "State of Fear" in order to gain donations to keep their "business" running. They use these donations to fund research. The scientists performing the research know where the monhey is comming from so they carry about the expirement in such a way that it will please the funders, thus they get more funding and thus, the theory of Global Warming emerges. And yes I know that corporations do the same thing, that is why only double-blind experiments are the only truly accurate ones.

I'll say it again:


http://home.att.net/~Resurgence/CIAtimeline.html
Seriously, if you haven't before, read it now.



It's all about the U.S. "fighting communism", terrorism and a timeline that seems to be the events of the last 4 years over and over and over again since the turn of the century.


READ IT~!!

Nice statement. The plight of Isreal is so oten forgotten. :( Truly they are the biggest victims of terrorism.



*LOL* their plight is forgotten? hardly.. we are never allowed to forget how they live in daily fear of the evil arab nations around them.. and all those vicious palasinians who's response to having a boot put on their neck is..erm.. to.. fight back! sorry kiddies.. Israel is a perfect example of what people do when they have nothing left to lose.. no brainwashing needed with many of the palastinians.. good ole' despair's doing a good enough job on it's own.

on the other hand things are looking encouraging over there at the moment.. hope the currrent trend continues.. might see some progress in my lifetime ...

who am I kidding?

hmm.. in other news.. who killed more civvies.. the mighty Bin Laden at 911 or the Noble Bush during the invasion of Iraq? well.. I'll give you a clue.. the bigger killer doesn't have a beard..

hope those oil-wells were worth it! (if anybody doubts for a second what Iraq was really about check out which areas were prioritised in the initial push.. hmm.. many of them are nearly unnoccupied.. strange that.. unnoccupied except for all those donkies nodding..)

Britian ruled 1/4 of the world over the barrel of a gun for close to a century.. America tears down democracally elected governments as soon as they become inconvenient.. Stalin the Steel Man himself was a slaughterer on a scale that made Hitler look like a beginner.. and he in turn was shown how to do it by the Great Chairman Mao (do your homework.. he got FAR more bodies to go cold than Stalin)..

terrorists? terrorists are pussies.. Governments are the real menace.. but a sad necessity..

can't live without 'em (they naturally spring up) and even the nations built on the highest ideals (America for instance.. truth, freedom.. liberty) soon become twisted parodies of what they were meant to represent.. repressing millions for gain and profit..



sorry for that guys.. just got back from work and am a little vexed.. feel better now.. get some cynicism out of my system

So, apparently a man who commited suicide in a bathroom with an obvious liberal agenda is to be considered a trusted source for information. Please, that article almost made me burst out laughing. I couldn't finish it. It's just too much historical igonorance, paranoia and just plain naive idiocy all rolled into one.

........ And yes I know that corporations do the same thing, that is why only double-blind experiments are the only truly accurate ones.
It doesn't take double dlind testing to spot that the Antartic ice shelf is melting faster than ever seen before.
The earths temperature is regulated by the seas and their salinity. All that extra freshh water is not a good thing.
The US's extended growing season will, of course, be paired with increased weather extremes. You already have some of the most extreme weather on the planet....it'll get worse. we'll just need rubber boots and a bigger umbrella :p

We need a more precise definition of terrorism...then this question wouldn't arise.

We don't need it. We have it. Look in any dictionary.

The question arises not because we don't have the definition, but because politicians are trying to alter it for their own agenda.

By the same definition most of Europe is presently communist.

They aren't? Huh. News to me.

hope those oil-wells were worth it! (if anybody doubts for a second what Iraq was really about check out which areas were prioritised in the initial push.. hmm.. many of them are nearly unnoccupied.. strange that.. unnoccupied except for all those donkies nodding..)

The oil wells were priortized to stop terrorists from burning them and destroying their own economy, which they tried to do but were mostly unsucsesfull. Now you just look at how much money the U.S. has made of Iraq, none. Don't try to mention Haliburton, they are the only ones in the world who could do what they have done that were part of the Coalition of the Wlling. Without that company Iraq would have no ifrastucture to speak of (and beleive me, many Americans would actually prefer it that way.)

Stalin the Steel Man himself was a slaughterer on a scale that made Hitler look like a beginner.. and he in turn was shown how to do it by the Great Chairman Mao (do your homework.. he got FAR more bodies to go cold than Stalin)..

I consider those men to be terrorists. Anyone who kills inocents to further an ideology is a terrorist, whether you are talking about medieval crusaders or fanatical muslims.

They aren't? Huh. News to me.



The oil wells were priortized to stop terrorists from burning them and destroying their own economy, which they tried to do but were mostly unsucsesfull. Now you just look at how much money the U.S. has made of Iraq, none. Don't try to mention Haliburton, they are the only ones in the world who could do what they have done that were part of the Coalition of the Wlling. Without that company Iraq would have no ifrastucture to speak of (and beleive me, many Americans would actually prefer it that way.)



I consider those men to be terrorists. Anyone who kills inocents to further an ideology is a terrorist, whether you are talking about medieval crusaders or fanatical muslims.

Europe communist? *lol* really haven't kept up to date with world politics, have we? all those free market econimies but they've got *gasp* welfare states and a much smaller rich/poor divide than the states.. clearly communists..

and as for the Oil wells? damn right the terrorists went after them.. if they could keep oil production offline the American Empire would quickly lose interest in Iraq.. what would be the point of installing a puppet government if there's no oil for them to give you? hell yeah.. it's not like the Iraqi people have ever seen any benefit from the oil.. all the profit has traditionally dissapeared into the ether.. if the current ruler's name is ether, that is.. so from their point of veiw they lose nothing, right?


hmmm "Anyone who kills inocents to further an ideology is a terrorist".. erm.. that's a lot of terrorists.. included in the list is every world leader who's ever gone to war.. ever

you don't think of your War Against Terror as anything but good and just.. in truth it's a jihad in the purest sense of the word.. to America on the macro scale profit IS a religion.. you have your hard-held convictions and they hold theres.. both sides have morallity to be applauded and appalled by.. both sides are inimical to the other.. shame really.. aside from the propaganda the two sides are incredibly similar

Terrorism is simply the use of terror tactics to force the enemy to either comply or fight a less than full efficiency. Example; Anyone who is familiar with the fictional W40k universe would know of the character Conrad Curze, Primarch of the Night Lords. His tactics were to perform a quick strike on the communications centre, having the security cameras film the massacre and then broadcast it to the planet. By definition, that is terrorism.

Our definition of terrorism is someone trying to generally make a right bastard of themselves by blowing up innocent people in cowardly ways. If you say terrorist to almost any american citizen, they think Islamic Extremist with half his body weight of C4 strapped to his chest.

This is wrong, as terroris is a type of tactic that is, simply put, one of the most effective ever used.

Europe communist? *lol* really haven't kept up to date with world politics, have we? all those free market econimies but they've got *gasp* welfare states and a much smaller rich/poor divide than the states.. clearly communists..

and as for the Oil wells? damn right the terrorists went after them.. if they could keep oil production offline the American Empire would quickly lose interest in Iraq.. what would be the point of installing a puppet government if there's no oil for them to give you? hell yeah.. it's not like the Iraqi people have ever seen any benefit from the oil.. all the profit has traditionally dissapeared into the ether.. if the current ruler's name is ether, that is.. so from their point of veiw they lose nothing, right?


hmmm "Anyone who kills inocents to further an ideology is a terrorist".. erm.. that's a lot of terrorists.. included in the list is every world leader who's ever gone to war.. ever

you don't think of your War Against Terror as anything but good and just.. in truth it's a jihad in the purest sense of the word.. to America on the macro scale profit IS a religion.. you have your hard-held convictions and they hold theres.. both sides have morallity to be applauded and appalled by.. both sides are inimical to the other.. shame really.. aside from the propaganda the two sides are incredibly similar
Thank you. You saved me some typing.
A lot (not all... we don't want to gereralise) of the citizens of the US on here seems to be very confused about world politics. 'praps that's connected to the large number of US high school kids who can't point to Canada on a map (let alone Iraq or Afganistan) or maybe a blinkered and skewed world view is comforting for them. Terrorism is only in the news since the US have suffered. The rest of us have put up with it for years and years (often financed by US citizens (IRA and ETA for eamaples).
Amazing how were having a war on it now ain't it?

Europe communist? *lol* really haven't kept up to date with world politics, have we? all those free market econimies but they've got *gasp* welfare states and a much smaller rich/poor divide than the states.. clearly communists..

Ridiculously high taxes, eliminating the rich/poor devide thus decreasing incentavie to work hard, massive innefficient socialist schemes (i.e. unviversal health care, 35 hour work week, manditory vacation time), yep sounds like communism. All a socialist is, is a communist who isn't willing to fight for his cause, they prefer to infiltrate goverment by convincing people that the goverment can solve all their problems.

you don't think of your War Against Terror as anything but good and just.. in truth it's a jihad in the purest sense of the word.. to America on the macro scale profit IS a religion.. you have your hard-held convictions and they hold theres.. both sides have morallity to be applauded and appalled by.. both sides are inimical to the other.. shame really.. aside from the propaganda the two sides are incredibly similar

Considering that jihad is a muslim phrase I don't think the War on Terror is a jihad. If you want to get all liberaly buzzword why not call it a crusade? Anyway, do you really want terrorists having free reign to do as they please? (which is to kill every non muslim on the face of the Earth by the way). And I know that nothing in this world is ever absolutley good but this is an example of something that is moslty good, you are just to blinded by political corectness too see the truth. And what, may I ask, morality do fanaticial muslims have to be applauded.

Thank you. You saved me some typing.
A lot (not all... we don't want to gereralise) of the citizens of the US on here seems to be very confused about world politics. 'praps that's connected to the large number of US high school kids who can't point to Canada on a map (let alone Iraq or Afganistan) or maybe a blinkered and skewed world view is comforting for them. Terrorism is only in the news since the US have suffered. The rest of us have put up with it for years and years (often financed by US citizens (IRA and ETA for eamaples).
Amazing how were having a war on it now ain't it?

Please don't lump me in with those idiots. I can assure you that I can point to Iraq and Afganistan on a map and from the time I was about ten years old I always wondered why we let the fanatical muslims get away with so much. I always had a feeling they would do something drastic eventually.

All the years that AMERICA has been sponsoring Terrorism in Africa, Nicaragua, Honduras, Cuba and Chili etc. Now they want to lead a campaign against the very monster they nurtured.

All the organizations they are naming were financed or supported in other ways by the US. US politicians had no problem with carrying terror to the Caribbean and many other countries as long as the damage was not on their soil.

People need to get an understanding of the widespread hypocrisy and the complicity of the major media networks in America and Europe in trying to push the world to war just to save America’s face and revamp their economic downturn.

Ridiculously high taxes, eliminating the rich/poor devide thus decreasing incentavie to work hard, massive innefficient socialist schemes (i.e. unviversal health care, 35 hour work week, manditory vacation time), yep sounds like communism. All a socialist is, is a communist who isn't willing to fight for his cause, they prefer to infiltrate goverment by convincing people that the goverment can solve all their problems.

.
You are obviously very well travelled. You must have visited a great many European countries to make such a sound judgement of how they work.
I bow to your superior knowledge.
Crap.
High taxes? What are the tax rates in the UK? or France? or Germany?
Can you quote them without looking them up?
And surely standards of living are more important than how much cash the govt. takes from you.
As for your "socialist schemes" ....
Universal health care is a human right. Exploit your people don't critisise us for not expoiting ours.
35 hour week? I work (contracted) 37.5 and usually do more. Once again your "facts" are just US propaganda.
"manditory vacation time". My holidays aren't manditory I could work them if I were stupid. I just get 28 days paid holiday a year. Oh how European business must suffer having to pay for that!!!
You have no idea of politics outside of your closed little world. Put your head back in its box. It's not working for you!

You are obviously very well travelled. You must have visited a great many European countries to make such a sound judgement of how they work.
I bow to your superior knowledge.
Crap.
High taxes? What are the tax rates in the UK? or France? or Germany?
Can you quote them without looking them up?
And surely standards of living are more important than how much cash the govt. takes from you.
As for your "socialist schemes" ....
Universal health care is a human right. Exploit your people don't critisise us for not expoiting ours.
35 hour week? I work (contracted) 37.5 and usually do more. Once again your "facts" are just US propaganda.
"manditory vacation time". My holidays aren't manditory I could work them if I were stupid. I just get 28 days paid holiday a year. Oh how European business must suffer having to pay for that!!!
You have no idea of politics outside of your closed little world. Put your head back in its box. It's not working for you!

This guy is more stupid than a clown, I live in England and have been to Germany on many occasions he knows nothing I can't believe his ignorance its beyound words.

You are obviously very well travelled. You must have visited a great many European countries to make such a sound judgement of how they work.

I personally have not travled outside of the U.S. but a close friend of mine has lived in France, the UK, Germany and Sweden and it turned him into an ardent anti-socilialist. He will tell anyone who will listen about the dangers of soicialism and the harm it can cause. He tells people of the 75% (close to that can't quite remember) tax rate in Paris and how living in an apertment and owning five peices of furniture is considered a good life. Hardly so in the U.S. we have ambitions and goals.

And surely standards of living are more important than how much cash the govt. takes from you.
Last I checked U.S. has the highest standard of living in the history of the world and it has lower taxes.

Universal health care is a human right. Exploit your people don't critisise us for not expoiting ours.
35 hour week? I work (contracted) 37.5 and usually do more. Once again your "facts" are just US propaganda.
"manditory vacation time". My holidays aren't manditory I could work them if I were stupid. I just get 28 days paid holiday a year. Oh how European business must suffer having to pay for that!!!


We have Universal health care. Its called health insurance. You see in the U.S. responsable people pay a monthly premium to a company to pay for their healtcare. And you know what? Healthy people don't have to support the unhealthy because they get to pay a lower premium. 37.5 is not impressive in the U.S. at all, by the way. And about your businesses suffering: Europes economy is exepriancing almost zero growth while the U.S. continues to dominate in that arena. Heck even your currency being worth more is bad for your economy.

By the way I get my most of my info about Europe from the CIA World Fact Book (Neutral) , National Public Radio (liberal) and Fox News (conservative) and of course from my globe hopping friend.

We need a more precise definition of terrorism...then this question wouldn't arise.

But why would anybody want to define terrorism properly when it's such a good word to scare people with?

Who needs solid evidence of anything when there's a word that acts as a hypnotic trigger to send the masses into a squawking panic?

IWe have Universal health care. Its called health insurance. You see in the U.S. responsable people pay a monthly premium to a company to pay for their healtcare. And you know what? Healthy people don't have to support the unhealthy because they get to pay a lower premium.

How much is this premium ?

Sidenote: if I get one more internal server error after typing a long post I am going to scream.

I personally have not travled outside of the U.S. but a close friend of mine has lived in France, the UK, Germany and Sweden and it turned him into an ardent anti-socilialist. He will tell anyone who will listen about the dangers of soicialism and the harm it can cause. He tells people of the 75% (close to that can't quite remember) tax rate in Paris and how living in an apertment and owning five peices of furniture is considered a good life. Hardly so in the U.S. we have ambitions and goals.


Last I checked U.S. has the highest standard of living in the history of the world and it has lower taxes.



We have Universal health care. Its called health insurance. You see in the U.S. responsable people pay a monthly premium to a company to pay for their healtcare. And you know what? Healthy people don't have to support the unhealthy because they get to pay a lower premium. 37.5 is not impressive in the U.S. at all, by the way. And about your businesses suffering: Europes economy is exepriancing almost zero growth while the U.S. continues to dominate in that arena. Heck even your currency being worth more is bad for your economy.

By the way I get my most of my info about Europe from the CIA World Fact Book (Neutral) , National Public Radio (liberal) and Fox News (conservative) and of course from my globe hopping friend.


I agree with you Jabba but I can't resist him. I'm driven by my curse'd demons.

75% eh? wow. I think you've played NS too long or your "friend" drank too much absinthe. I pay 25% basic tax and about 9% NI (national insurance) .
Believe me I'm not trying to impress you with 37.5 hours.Having to work in excess of 48 hours to survive is not living and not clever.
I don't think you'll ever understand the health system here. Americans I've worked with in the UK have praised it. But it's not worth my effort banging why it works well into your head.
As to the US standard of living I think you'll find that sweden is acredited with the highest standard of living in the world and strangely they have very high taxes too. They seem happy. I just finished Bill Brysons "here and there".
He seems to praise European standards at every turn and is, gosh.... you guess it....and American. And one who's travelled for a reason other than to kill people.
Grow up.
Get out.
see the world (without shooting anyone)
Come back and make an unbiased judgement.

Terrorism: The act to use force or threats to demoralize, intimidate and subjugate, such as use as a political WEAPON or POLICY. The demoralization and intimidation produced in this way.

Adage: "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist".

My view: I live in the U.S. and am an American citizen. I for one, hate and am outraged at U.S. policy and it's corrupt government. America is the instigater and leader in terrorism. I am not happy with calling myself a U.S. citizen. I am appaled and for the most part against what this nation currently stands for. I am a human being and a mere mortal first and foremost. Where is this world's utopia? If I knew that, i'd be living there. I doubt that it exists. I'll just wait for JESUS CHRIST to return and GOD to sort everything out in the end. I pray and am hopeful that that day is near. GOD bless all!

Terrorism: The act to use force or threats to demoralize, intimidate and subjugate, such as use as a political WEAPON or POLICY. The demoralization and intimidation produced in this way.

Adage: "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist".

My view: I live in the U.S. and am an American citizen. I for one, hate and am outraged at U.S. policy and it's corrupt government. America is the instigater and leader in terrorism. I am not happy with calling myself a U.S. citizen. I am appaled and for the most part against what this nation currently stands for. I am a human being and a mere mortal first and foremost. Where is this world's utopia? If I knew that, i'd be living there. I doubt that it exists. I'll just wait for JESUS CHRIST to return and GOD to sort everything out in the end. I pray and am hopeful that that day is near. GOD bless all!
Bugger.
I was just gonna congratulate you on your open minded and brave view when you spoiled it and went and brought god into it.
I'm sad again now :(

We have Universal health care. Its called health insurance. You see in the U.S. responsable people pay a monthly premium to a company to pay for their healtcare.

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American health care is sick!

Survival of the fittest. disparities between the rich and poor are markedly more pronounced in the U.S. than in England or France. This, in large part, is due to the fact that one in nine Americans has no health insurance. America does not help those who are vulnerable in their society.

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American health care is sick!

Survival of the fittest. disparities between the rich and poor are markedly more pronounced in the U.S. than in England or France. This, in large part, is due to the fact that one in nine Americans has no health insurance. America does not help those who are vulnerable in their society.
Jabba, I agree with you 100% but we're thread jacking by discussing it here.
Would you like to start a new tread. Maybe something like...
"European socialism = Communism (or not) or..
Superior socialism.
or what ever.
and I'll join you there (in between working :D )