NationStates Jolt Archive

So is this EU thing sort of like them becoming their own United States? The United States of Europe or something? I mean, the constitution that didn't go through is basically an overall constitution like ours in the USA is, and each country has it's own country laws as well, as long as they stay within the overall law, correct?

I'm sorry, I never payed much attention to the EU, as I didn't see it as a superstate coming into play like America is. I think it's a brilliant plan. Hope it works someday.

So is this EU thing sort of like them becoming their own United States? The United States of Europe or something? I mean, the constitution that didn't go through is basically an overall constitution like ours in the USA is, and each country has it's own country laws as well, as long as they stay within the overall law, correct?

I'm sorry, I never payed much attention to the EU, as I didn't see it as a superstate coming into play like America is. I think it's a brilliant plan. Hope it works someday.

No, the constitution is not for creating a European Superstate but for dealing with the recent EU expansion, which occured last year. As at the moment the EU constitution, is designed to support 15 member nations and was agreed back in 1993, therefore it is now out of date and needs replacing for the EU to function properly.

But the problem's have been over three main areas:

1. A Free Market - Both the French and Germans see this as an Anglo American idea and prefer a more Socialist Econemy

2. The Balance of Power- Since it's inception the EU has effectively been governed by the French and German's and they want to keep this power, but nations like Spain and Poland want more of a say and therefore are ruffuling a few feathers with the "old order".

3. Veto's- Like in the UN certain nations carry veto's and nations like Britain do not want to give up this power especially on areas like Defence Policy.

Thanks for the info.

I read on MSNBC, that in the future they want to make it like the US states though, so that you can pass freely through county borders without a passport or anything. Will they someday get a Constitution that's like ours in the USA, and perhaps become an equal partner with the US?

With the USA growing increasingly paranoid about China, if this happened with the EU, I think it would ease some American tension.

Thanks for the info.

I read on MSNBC, that in the future they want to make it like the US states though, so that you can pass freely through county borders without a passport or anything. Will they someday get a Constitution that's like ours in the USA, and perhaps become an equal partner with the US?

With the USA growing increasingly paranoid about China, if this happened with the EU, I think it would ease some American tension.

Yea, Im all for a European Superstate, as countries like the UK, France, Germany will never raise like they have down in the past and we are too small in both area, recourses and population. But if we combind together I feel we could become a big player on the world stage and therefore avoid a China v USA war as both sides would fear a 3rd player joining in.

It might seem like a good idea from the USA, but here in Britain people don't want to be part of the corrupt and inefficient bureaucracy in Brussels. All the EU does is take away money from us and over-regulate every aspect of our lives.

You say that the EU could be like the USA. That is very untrue. The EU is a centralised monolith, while the very principles of your political system is de-centralisation, and giving most of the power to a local level.

And you might have noticed that even the French don't want a federal EU - look at the results of their recent referendum.

It might seem like a good idea from the USA, but here in Britain people don't want to be part of the corrupt and inefficient bureaucracy in Brussels. All the EU does is take away money from us and over-regulate every aspect of our lives.

You say that the EU could be like the USA. That is very untrue. The EU is a centralised monolith, while the very principles of your political system is de-centralisation, and giving most of the power to a local level.

And you might have noticed that even the French don't want a federal EU - look at the results of their recent referendum.

Well, that's the way it USED to be in the US. Now it could be argued that we are a giant socialist state. I just don't like to see the USA as the only monolithic power around, but I don't want to see some insane country become it either. I think another superstate on the same level as the US could be a wonderful thing, if done right.

Seems like the EU has many problems to sort out before this happens though. I hope they get sorted out okay. Even America began on shakey economic ground. (We had to change our currency quite a bit) If France and Germany would just realize the world shouldn't do their will, then I think it should do fine.

Well, that's the way it USED to be in the US. Now it could be argued that we are a giant socialist state. I just don't like to see the USA as the only monolithic power around, but I don't want to see some insane country become it either. I think another superstate on the same level as the US could be a wonderful thing, if done right.

Seems like the EU has many problems to sort out before this happens though. I hope they get sorted out okay. Even America began on shakey economic ground. (We had to change our currency quite a bit) If France and Germany would just realize the world shouldn't do their will, then I think it should do fine.

But the BIG problem the US didn't have was over 2,000 of history and great rivalries aswell as diverse culture.

Thanks for the info.

I read on MSNBC, that in the future they want to make it like the US states though, so that you can pass freely through county borders without a passport or anything. Will they someday get a Constitution that's like ours in the USA, and perhaps become an equal partner with the US?

With the USA growing increasingly paranoid about China, if this happened with the EU, I think it would ease some American tension.
For those countries that are in Schengen there are already no border controls between them. All the EU15 except UK and Ireland are in Schengen. Additionally, Norway, Switzerland and Iceland are part of the Schengen zone.

But the BIG problem the US didn't have was over 2,000 of history and great rivalries aswell as diverse culture.

No. As a matter of fact, that's why we left. That's true.

It might seem like a good idea from the USA, but here in Britain people don't want to be part of the corrupt and inefficient bureaucracy in Brussels. All the EU does is take away money from us and over-regulate every aspect of our lives.

You say that the EU could be like the USA. That is very untrue. The EU is a centralised monolith, while the very principles of your political system is de-centralisation, and giving most of the power to a local level.

And you might have noticed that even the French don't want a federal EU - look at the results of their recent referendum.
Please don't speak for me.
I'm in the UK and welcome closer ties with Europe.
I want the UK to adopt the Euro.
The European definition of "Federal" is different to the British definition. It's been a stick point for years cos people like you think things are being sneaked past them with "weasel words". Sillyness
The French opposed the constitution for very different reasons to the Dutch.
Also as previously stated the constitution wasn't some evil document..just an update an of an outdated one

Please don't speak for me.
I'm in the UK and welcome closer ties with Europe.
I want the UK to adopt the Euro.
The European definition of "Federal" is different to the British definition. It's been a stick point for years cos people like you think things are being sneaked past them with "weasel words". Sillyness
The French opposed the constitution for very different reasons to the Dutch.
Also as previously stated the constitution wasn't some evil document..just an update an of an outdated one

I agree, Britain needs closer ties to Europe, though I didn't agree with certain parts of the constitution. e.g A free market

It might seem like a good idea from the USA, but here in Britain people don't want to be part of the corrupt and inefficient bureaucracy in Brussels.
A few inaccuracies. I don't see where this notion of the EU being corrupt comes from unless you were suggesting that all government is corrupt. The EU from what I can see is no more or less corrupt than the British government, although I don't think that is really what you meant.

The EU is certainly inefficient but there is a lot more structure to it than most people seem to think. I agree that the EU very often treads that fine line between 'looking after interests' and unbelievable stupidity.

All the EU does is take away money from us and over-regulate every aspect of our lives.
The over-regulation thing is a matter of political ideology so I won't dispute that. Besides I happen to agree with you, although I would say that the UK government is equally as guilty of that. :)

But the money thing is a fair point. The EU does take a lot of money away from the UK budget. People get annoyed with the EU because they don't see any benefits but I do. I live in Paisley, west of Glasgow in what is classified as a deprived area of the EU. Part of the Paisley Town Centre revamp a few years ago was funded by the EU. The M77 Motorway stretching from Glasgow to Gretna was payed for mostly by EU money after the then Strathclyde Regional Council applied directly to the EU for funding (after Westminister refused to build a motorway connecting Scotland and England!). And then what about the benefits for the struggling countries in the EU? Surely it is only good for the UK eonomy if new markets for our industries (tertiary services most commonly) are stimulated and grown by investment in the new Eastern Block? Not to mention the benefits for the people in those countries from being members of the EU.

I'm afraid I don't share the 'what's in it for the UK' take on european politics.

You say that the EU could be like the USA. That is very untrue. The EU is a centralised monolith, while the very principles of your political system is de-centralisation, and giving most of the power to a local level.
Very true, although the EU only has power over certain policy areas. Much policy is still the sole responsibility of national (or devolved) government. The Eu is still mainly concerned with the Common Agricultural Policy and the preservation of the free movement of people, goods and services.

And you might have noticed that even the French don't want a federal EU - look at the results of their recent referendum.
The constitution does the exact opposite of establishing a federal Europe. It further establishes a united confederation of European nations to share in policy areas such as Trade and Agriculture. There is no significant power extension to the EU in this constitution. Also, I think you'll find that France does want a more integrated Europe but the French public disagree with many of the directions that the EU is going in. The principle one being the reinforcing of the free market economy. They want a more socia-minded economy with state intervention.

This constitution is not that big a deal. To be honest I don't know why they called it a constitution. It is a treaty in the same way as the other treaties establishing the ECSC, EC, EEC and EU were. The reason France voted against it was because of problems they had with policy areas and this is the first chance they've had to express their discontent. The treaty was put to referendum to try and make the EU more democratically accountable to the general public. Despite being a pro-european I think that the French defeat of the constitution was tremendous and was exactly the way I hoped their referendum would go.

You say that the EU could be like the USA. That is very untrue. The EU is a centralised monolith, while the very principles of your political system is de-centralisation, and giving most of the power to a local level.


You wouldn't think so these days, what with the ever declining power of state's rights due to a certain political party...

You wouldn't think so these days, what with the ever declining power of state's rights due to a certain political party...

I guess your not part of Tony Blairs Fan Club?

(Neither Am I)

I read on MSNBC, that in the future they want to make it like the US states though, so that you can pass freely through county borders without a passport or anything. Will they someday get a Constitution that's like ours in the USA, and perhaps become an equal partner with the US?

a) Yes, there is free movement of people, workers and capitals between the EU member states, which though being a source of economical growth, is also a source of some discomfort, as the wealthier countries fear the wage-based competition of poorer countries (Though this is a weak excuse, in my opinion).

b) It is very hard to foresee the future of the EU in terms of how its future constitution will be, but in time it will surely become an equal partner of the US.


With the USA growing increasingly paranoid about China, if this happened with the EU, I think it would ease some American tension.

Definitelly, yes. Despite the constant bashing between europeans and americans, the my-dick-is-bigger-than-yours stuff and ignorant-driven debate, and though Europe and the US are culturaly diferent, and growing more distant, they still share two very important things, that the Chinese don't share : A market driven economy, and a democratic system. These two things alone are enough to put the US and the EU in the same side in case of a major conflict against chine. Offcourse, this also means that the bickering between ourselves is constant, you can see that not just in Iraq, but in the Airbus-boeing war (both in which both sides have fucked up alot).

Definitelly, yes. Despite the constant bashing between europeans and americans, the my-dick-is-bigger-than-yours stuff and ignorant-driven debate, and though Europe and the US are culturaly diferent, and growing more distant, they still share two very important things, that the Chinese don't share : A market driven economy, and a democratic system. These two things alone are enough to put the US and the EU in the same side in case of a major conflict against chine. Offcourse, this also means that the bickering between ourselves is constant, you can see that not just in Iraq, but in the Airbus-boeing war (both in which both sides have fucked up alot).


Well, perhaps the next few generations of both sides of the ocean will be a bit more friendly-playing than the 50 year old Baby Boomers are. We can hope.

Well, perhaps the next few generations of both sides of the ocean will be a bit more friendly-playing than the 50 year old Baby Boomers are. We can hope.

Yea, we can hope!

But the BIG problem the US didn't have was over 2,000 of history and great rivalries aswell as diverse culture.

Sure we did. We just rolled over it during out expansion westward.