NationStates Jolt Archive


Captives told to claim torture

Eutrusca
01-06-2005, 00:28
NOTE: This, as far as I'm concerned, is the last word on all the allegations of "torture" and "mistreatment" of detainees, unless of course you prefer to believe a band of murderous thugs.


Captives told to claim torture (http://www.military.com/News/Home/0,13324,4-XX-0-DAYX20050531,00.html)


By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

An al Qaeda handbook preaches to operatives to level charges of torture once captured, a training regime that administration officials say explains some of the charges of abuse at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp.
The American Civil Liberties Union last week posted on its Web site 2002 FBI documents regarding accusations from suspected al Qaeda and Taliban detainees at the detention center. The organization had won a court decision that forced the administration to release scores of e-mails between agents who had interviewed captives.
U.S. Southern Command, which oversees the prison, is investigating interrogation techniques at "GTMO," as the naval base in Cuba is called, as well as the FBI-conveyed, unsubstantiated complaints. The U.S. Justice Department inspector general has begun a separate probe.
One investigator, Brig. Gen. Jay W. Hood, said last week that the most explosive charge so far -- that guards flushed the Koran Muslim holy book down a toilet -- is not true. The Pentagon tabbed Gen. Hood to conduct a probe into how Islam is treated at the prison in the aftermath of a since-retracted report by Newsweek on the Koran claim.
U.S. officials think the Koran story -- told by a detainee who did not see the purported event -- might be part of an al Qaeda campaign to spread disinformation.
"There have been allegations made by detainees," White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters. "We know that members of al Qaeda are trained to mislead and to provide false reports. We know that's one of their tactics that they use. And so I think you have to keep that in mind."
In a raid on an al Qaeda cell in Manchester, British authorities seized al Qaeda's most extensive manual for how to wage war.
A directive lists one mission as "spreading rumors and writing statements that instigate people against the enemy."
If captured, the manual states, "At the beginning of the trial ... the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by state security before the judge. Complain of mistreatment while in prison."
The handbook instructs commanders to make sure operatives, or "brothers," understand what to say if captured.
"Prior to executing an operation, the commander should instruct his soldiers on what to say if they are captured," the document says. "He should explain that more than once in order to ensure that they have assimilated it. They should, in turn, explain it back to the commander."
An example might have occurred in a Northern Virginia courtroom in February.
Ahmed Omar Abul Ali, accused of planning to assassinate President Bush, made an appearance in U.S. District Court and promptly told the judge that he had been tortured in Saudi Arabia, including a claim that his back had been whipped. He is accused of meeting there with a senior al Qaeda leader.
Days later, a U.S. attorney filed a court document saying physicians had examined Ali and "found no evidence of any physical mistreatment on the defendant's back or any other part of his body."
Larry Di Rita, spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, said two Guantanamo commanders told him that al Qaeda detainees are experts in circulating false charges among the more than 500 fighters captured in Afghanistan.
"There are elements within the detainee population that were very effective at getting other detainees agitated about the Koran by making allegations," Mr. Di Rita said. "They particularly focused on the practice of their faith and the Koran being kept from them. So people should not be surprised when detainees come out and make these kinds of allegations. It causes the reactions we've seen."
He added, "None of this is meant to excuse the situation we found when individuals were unfortunately abused at Abu Ghraib. That was wrong."
There already has been one Pentagon review of accusations of abuse at Guantanamo. Vice Adm. Albert T. Church III, the Navy inspector general, released a report in March that found three substantiated closed cases of "minor" abuse in 24,000 interrogations -- one assault and two female guards' making sexually suggestive gestures to detainees.
"It bears emphasis that the vast majority of detainees held by the U.S. in the global war on terror have been treated humanely and that the overwhelming majority of U.S. personnel have served honorably," Adm. Church wrote.
Chellis
01-06-2005, 00:30
And what of those who are innocent, who dont even have the right to an attorney? Or are they all guilty, simply because we believe they are?
Borgoa
01-06-2005, 00:32
NOTE: This, as far as I'm concerned, is the last word on all the allegations of "torture" and "mistreatment" of detainees, unless of course you prefer to believe a band of murderous thugs.

I prefer to believe those that have been released after being wrongly imprisoned there just for being in the wrong place with the wrong ethnic background at the wrong time.

I also prefer to believe those nobel US troops that have spoken out after seeing it.

I also prefer to believe the ICRC.

But that's just me...

And frankly the last line of the article scares me deeply... says to me that it's the US authorities think it's perfectly acceptable if "only" a minority are abused.
Avika
01-06-2005, 00:40
Should we be surprised that terrorists would resort to some desperate tactics? We shouldn't believe everything these guys say, just like we shouldn't take what Bush says as being 100% accurate. :gundge: Hehehe. I have no idea what that face is doing.
Wurzelmania
01-06-2005, 00:41
This is another of those days. Seriously Etrusca, somedays you strike me as a reasonably thought out and intelligent debater with the unfortunate handicap of opposing me (not that I'm a good debater, just I'm right ;) ). Other days you post like this.

Any training, formal or not will tell you one way or another 'defeat your enemy however you can' In the playground I won many fights but my opponents had louder voices and within a day it was 'fact' that I was in hospital with broken limbs despite my walking, talking prescence. If a US soldier is taken prisoner they would probably do much the same.

Your logic here dictates that one written statement is a 'catch-all' for anyone connected to it, the world doesn't work that way.
Swimmingpool
01-06-2005, 00:54
NOTE: This, as far as I'm concerned, is the last word on all the allegations of "torture" and "mistreatment" of detainees, unless of course you prefer to believe a band of murderous thugs.
No, it cannot be this simple. Nothing ever is.
Sabbatis
01-06-2005, 01:41
NOTE: This, as far as I'm concerned, is the last word on all the allegations of "torture" and "mistreatment" of detainees, unless of course you prefer to believe a band of murderous thugs.

I agree with you. Unfortunately the media and the terrorist apologists have plenty of words left. This report will soon be "discredited".
Iztatepopotla
01-06-2005, 01:42
That's why there have to be independent investigations in Guantanamo and other places. In that way you don't give these tactics a chance. But the refusal to let these claims be investigated and the continuation of the same old policies actually give the enemy a much better ground to stand.
Seangolia
01-06-2005, 01:52
Okay, let's crunch some number.

There are currently 600 detainees at Guantanamo, give or take.

And FBI report said that less than 100 of these were actually Al-Queda Operatives. The rest are conscripts, forced into fighting by various people for various reasons. Most of them actually had no real qualms with America, they just got caught in the tide.
Carnivorous Lickers
01-06-2005, 02:40
The rest are conscripts, forced into fighting by various people for various reasons. Most of them actually had no real qualms with America, they just got caught in the tide.

If this was a defense, half of the criminals arrested in organized crime would get off on it.
Disraeliland
01-06-2005, 02:50
The rest are conscripts, forced into fighting by various people for various reasons. Most of them actually had no real qualms with America, they just got caught in the tide.

The vast majority of prisoners taken by the Allies in WW2 were conscripts.

Your point was?

The duty to take captives in war is a necessary, humane one.
Haloman
01-06-2005, 03:03
I'm sorry, I still find it hilarious that people think they can compare concentration camps during the holocaust to Guantanamo Bay.
DrunkenDove
01-06-2005, 21:01
I'm sorry, I still find it hilarious that people think they can compare concentration camps during the holocaust to Guantanamo Bay.

Indeed. Although thats not to say that the camps shouldn't be.
Nimzonia
01-06-2005, 21:06
...unless of course you prefer to believe a band of murderous thugs.

Surely that's no way for a veteran to talk about the US military :eek: :p
Sinuhue
01-06-2005, 21:08
I agree with you. Unfortunately the media and the terrorist apologists have plenty of words left. This report will soon be "discredited".
Once you can actually prove every single one of those people is a terrorist...then you can go and call everyone who is outraged at the way these people are being held "terrorist apologists". Until then, you can just call us people interested in 'human rights'.
Sinuhue
01-06-2005, 21:09
Surely that's no way for a veteran to talk about the US military :eek: :p
Hehehehe...I actually read it that way the first time too...changes the meaning a bit, doesn't it?
Potaria
01-06-2005, 21:10
Once you can actually prove every single one of those people is a terrorist...then you can go and call everyone who is outraged at the way these people are being held "terrorist apologists". Until then, you can just call us people interested in 'human rights'.

*hands you a massive cookie*
Sinuhue
01-06-2005, 21:46
*hands you a massive cookie*
I hate it when things end this way. *sighs and eats the cookie, disapointed that ONCE AGAIN, Eut has posted, stated, and run*