NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050531/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_8

WASHINGTON -
President Bush on Tuesday dismissed a human rights report as "absurd" for its harsh criticism of U.S. treatment of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, saying the allegations were made by prisoners "who hate America."
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"It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world," Bush said of the Amnesty International report that compared Guantanamo to a Soviet-era gulag.

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Im sure that if he was asked about US ex-OW's in vietnam though, they would never lie, because they are only interested in the truth(not saying anything about POW's or vietnam vets, just using an example).

"It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world," Bush said of the Amnesty International report that compared Guantanamo to a Soviet-era gulag.



Bhahahaha! :p

I would expect nothing less out of the Pesident, no matter who held the office.

Owning up to allegations like that would be political suicide; and as much as I like the idea of honesty in politics, there is something to be said for self-preservation.

At the same time, quietly launching a massive investigation, crucifying a few induviduals to make an example to the rest of these "bad apples" in pys ops, and FIXING whatever problems allowed this to happen would be a good way of restoring my faith on our government.

On the one hand, if all Amnesty did was consult the prisoners and ask them their opinions - that is, the ones who've been let out - then yeah, of course they've got their evidence from a skewed source.

On the other, if they physically examined said prisoners for the evidence of stress torture, or psychologically examined them for the evidence of mental torture (the famous playing of the Teletubbies theme - or whatever it was - over and over, because it's so alien to them it's highly disorienting), or if they looked at the film of how they were treated, with sensory depravation techniques and the like, one wonders if Amnesty might have a point. They do tend to.

Amnnesty is at my school.

I'm glad we took it the the press.
AND BWUHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

I am seriously fed up with him.

"We're a Freedom Loving Country! TAKE OVER IRAQ!"
"We're a democracy fighting for peace!" (Biggest. Oxymoron. Ever.)
"We can't let any BAD LEADERS get their hands on Nuclear Weapons!" (BWUHAHAHAHAHA!)
"We're a country of Equal Rights! BAN GAY MARRIAGE!"

Crucifixion... How I love it!

Maybe it's anti-American because voting in crap governments is the American way. Or maybe, it's a load of bullshit.

On the one hand, if all Amnesty did was consult the prisoners and ask them their opinions - that is, the ones who've been let out - then yeah, of course they've got their evidence from a skewed source.


Well what do you do?

"Prisoner where you abused?"

"Yes"

"Guard are prisoners abused?"

"No"

the evidence of mental torture (the famous playing of the Teletubbies theme - or whatever it was - over and over, because it's so alien to them it's highly disorienting),

It's not alien to me and I would declare it torture!

Hey at least they didn't have to watch Barney and what is it called Baby Bop?

My friend is one of the nicest people you will ever meet and he said after having to watch them over and over with his boy; he said he was ready to be a clock tower sniper! ;)

I'm not gonna believe either side of this arguement, because I don't think anyone who really knows is gonna tell the absolute truth, and I really don't give a care anyway.

I'm not gonna believe either side of this arguement, because I don't think anyone who really knows is gonna tell the absolute truth, and I really don't give a care anyway.

Neh.

Well, you should.
Innocent people are getting tortured because of some idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

Neh.

Well, you should.
Innocent people are getting tortured because of some idiot who doesn't know what he's doing.

What else is new? Goes on all over the world. I can't worry about everybody, ya know. Why are 50 suspected terrorists more important than 50 innocent Chinese or Russians? I trust Bush a bit more than Putin, ya know.

ya know things would have stayed the way they were in ancient times nobody would have cared cause the said prisoners would have been sold in slavery instead we have become more "civilized" and we just whine and complain....god i hate the 21st century

What else is new? Goes on all over the world. I can't worry about everybody, ya know. Why are 50 suspected terrorists more important than 50 innocent Chinese or Russians? I trust Bush a bit more than Putin, ya know.
Because the '50 suspected terrorists' are being tortured in your name, with your tacit aproval. Because we claim to be better, we attempt to plant our flag on the 'higher ground,' we should hold ourselves to a higher standard rather than pointing about to say we're 'not as bad as that guy.'

Because the '50 suspected terrorists' are being tortured in your name, with your tacit aproval. Because we claim to be better, we attempt to plant our flag on the 'higher ground,' we should hold ourselves to a higher standard rather than pointing about to say we're 'not as bad as that guy.'

I did my part to try to end the war. I voted for Badnarik. I signed petitions to get Bush impeached. I just have a problem believing Amnesty International, as I feel they just get in the way most of the time. Nothing I ever do is enough for some people it seems.

What else is new? Goes on all over the world. I can't worry about everybody, ya know. Why are 50 suspected terrorists more important than 50 innocent Chinese or Russians? I trust Bush a bit more than Putin, ya know.

Yes, but you don't get to vote about Putin. You do get to vote about Bush. So if you don't give a care (assuming you live in the US) about the torture that we've all known was going on under his watch and didn't do anything to replace him (ya, I don't know that it would stop under anyone else, but I knew it wouldn't stop under him, if the next guy doesn't stop it then we replace him too, eventually someone gets the idea.) then you are complicit in his crimes. That's what a democracy means. You get the government you deserve.

Yes, but you don't get to vote about Putin. You do get to vote about Bush. So if you don't give a care (assuming you live in the US) about the torture that we've all known was going on under his watch and didn't do anything to replace him (ya, I don't know that it would stop under anyone else, but I knew it wouldn't stop under him, if the next guy doesn't stop it then we replace him too, eventually someone gets the idea.) then you are complicit in his crimes. That's what a democracy means. You get the government you deserve.

Did you read my last remark? Or maybe you were writing this while I replied. Either way, as I said, I don't trust Amnesty International, and it's my right not to. Many people don't trust em. Doesn't make me a bad person. I don't trust the president either. I'm just saying I'll wait til hard facts come in.

The Defense Department has been refusing to answer to newsweek reporters on questions about the koran incident. What information needs to be classified, what do they have to hide if they are innocent.

Infringing on the POW's freedom of religion is a violation of the Geveva Convention.

George W. Bush get out of the White House and into prison for obstruction of justice.

Amnnesty is at my school.

I'm glad we took it the the press.
AND BWUHAHHAHAHAHAHA.

I am seriously fed up with him.

"We're a Freedom Loving Country! TAKE OVER IRAQ!"
"We're a democracy fighting for peace!" (Biggest. Oxymoron. Ever.)
"We can't let any BAD LEADERS get their hands on Nuclear Weapons!" (BWUHAHAHAHAHA!)
"We're a country of Equal Rights! BAN GAY MARRIAGE!"

Not a particularly poetic style of argument, yet you sum it up so well!!

I couldn't agree more. All governments are to a certain extent hypocritical for sure, but governmental hypocrisy is certainly another area where USA leads the world!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050531/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_8

WASHINGTON -
President Bush on Tuesday dismissed a human rights report as "absurd" for its harsh criticism of U.S. treatment of terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, saying the allegations were made by prisoners "who hate America."
ADVERTISEMENT
click here

"It's an absurd allegation. The United States is a country that promotes freedom around the world," Bush said of the Amnesty International report that compared Guantanamo to a Soviet-era gulag.

--------------------

Im sure that if he was asked about US ex-POW's in vietnam though, they would never lie, because they are only interested in the truth(not saying anything about POW's or vietnam vets, just using an example).


OR,

Maybe we finally have someone who is able to call absurdity what it is. I read the report and it is about as lame as it gets. It is a serious blight to AIs credibility.

Is Gitmo perfect? No. Is it a gulag? How absurd. Good for W. for calling it what it is. Maybe this is what AI needs to get back in touch with reality. I say give them more reality checks as needed.

Because the '50 suspected terrorists' are being tortured in your name, with your tacit aproval. Because we claim to be better, we attempt to plant our flag on the 'higher ground,' we should hold ourselves to a higher standard rather than pointing about to say we're 'not as bad as that guy.'

LOL. How naive. Maybe you'd like us to provide beanbags and teddybears for those bad bad men? Maybe as a new form of 'torture' we can replace their cotton briefs with boxers - pretty close to the absurd definition of torture you and AI currently use.

OR,

Maybe we finally have someone who is able to call absurdity what it is. I read the report and it is about as lame as it gets. It is a serious blight to AIs credibility.

Is Gitmo perfect? No. Is it a gulag? How absurd. Good for W. for calling it what it is. Maybe this is what AI needs to get back in touch with reality. I say give them more reality checks as needed.

Yes, as im sure the iraqi information minister was giving his people a reality check with his information. Bush would never lie.

LOL. How naive. Maybe you'd like us to provide beanbags and teddybears for those bad bad men? Maybe as a new form of 'torture' we can replace their cotton briefs with boxers - pretty close to the absurd definition of torture you and AI currently use.
I'd be happy if they'd just start with either charging or releasing them. We can talk beanbags later...

Firstly, the whole gulag bit was absurd. Secondly, since the majority of those in guantanamo were caught on the battlefield fighting against america, probability dictates that they hate or despise america. Simple logic that.

I did my part to try to end the war. I voted for Badnarik. I signed petitions to get Bush impeached. I just have a problem believing Amnesty International, as I feel they just get in the way most of the time. Nothing I ever do is enough for some people it seems.
Okay, #1: petitions due jack shit, signging a petition is tantamount to doing nothing. #2: yeah, being completely apathetic about people being tortured and hostile to an international group for not allowing governments to do what ever they want shouldn't be enough for anyone.

It's not alien to me and I would declare it torture!

Hey at least they didn't have to watch Barney and what is it Baby Bop.

My friend is one of the nicest people you will ever meet and he said after having to watch them over and over with his boy; he said he was ready to be a clock tower sniper! ;)
The Charles Whitman Memorial?

You know, the Bush administration, Rumsfeld in particular, didn't have any trouble believing Amnesty International when they cited Saddam Hussein for human rights abuses. I wonder why they're having trouble now? Hmmmmm.

Originally Posted by Borgoa
All governments are to a certain extent hypocritical for sure, but governmental hypocrisy is certainly another area where USA leads the world!
That would be sarcasm, right? The Americans are nowhere near the leaders in that category.

Originally Posted by The Nazz
You know, the Bush administration, Rumsfeld in particular, didn't have any trouble believing Amnesty International when they cited Saddam Hussein for human rights abuses. I wonder why they're having trouble now? Hmmmmm.
Many possible reasons. For one, Hussein was a military dictator, which means that he was not elected, and thus has minimal accountability. So, it isn't hard to imagine that someone who maintains power through violence will be willing to exert that violence on anyone who gets in the way, and in the most horrific of manners. Two, Amnesty International was reporting human rights abuses in Iraq long before the Bush administration entered the scene. Three, what Saddam Hussein's regime considered viable methods of torture are too horrific for many people in the Western world to contemplate, let alone act upon. (I'm sure there are some sickos out there who could come up with it on their own, but I'd like to believe that they are few and isolated.)

Many possible reasons. For one, Hussein was a military dictator, which means that he was not elected, and thus has minimal accountability. So, it isn't hard to imagine that someone who maintains power through violence will be willing to exert that violence on anyone who gets in the way, and in the most horrific of manners. Two, Amnesty International was reporting human rights abuses in Iraq long before the Bush administration entered the scene. Three, what Saddam Hussein's regime considered viable methods of torture are too horrific for many people in the Western world to contemplate, let alone act upon. (I'm sure there are some sickos out there who could come up with it on their own, but I'd like to believe that they are few and isolated.)
I've got a more likely reason--the Bush administration chooses not to believe Amnesty International when they point out what a bunch of hypocrital SOBs they are, but believes them when it's convenient. I was hoping I wouldn't have to spell this out, but I see I was incorrect.

The Charles Whitman Memorial?

Reference yes. He has a memorial?

Reference yes. He has a memorial?
Yes, in a fashion - there was a short called "The Charles Whitman Memorial" on a movie from the 80's - either "Prime Time" or "Kentucky Fried Movie".

I've got a more likely reason--the Bush administration chooses not to believe Amnesty International when they point out what a bunch of hypocrital SOBs they are, but believes them when it's convenient.

Which is exactly how they treat the UN, as well.

Amnesty International does have a lot more credibility, than the current US government.

What else is new? Goes on all over the world. I can't worry about everybody, ya know. Why are 50 suspected terrorists more important than 50 innocent Chinese or Russians? I trust Bush a bit more than Putin, ya know.


why, V.V. Putin is a good guy, and besides that, I wouldn't want to argue face to face with an ex-KGB colonel and a black belt in Judo, would you?????

remember the woman who got uppity after the Kursk incident at the press conference Putin held, she got a needle behind the ear and disappeared

why do you hate america so much?

What else is new? Goes on all over the world. I can't worry about everybody, ya know. Why are 50 suspected terrorists more important than 50 innocent Chinese or Russians? I trust Bush a bit more than Putin, ya know.
If Putin would have blamed Hodorkovsky for supporting terrorist, Bush would have praised him. Now he blames that Russian court decided he's quilty even before the trial. (which I find just hilarious. Who needs trialds anyway!)

China and Russia can always say that those people are not innocent, they are suspected terrorists.

(btw I don't believe Hodorkovsky is as clean as western media represents him. You can't become the richest man of that country by legal means.)