NationStates Jolt Archive


Oh the Irony

DHomme
30-05-2005, 22:34
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=588782005

Ahhhh, liberals. So misguided.
Bolol
30-05-2005, 22:37
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=588782005

Ahhhh, liberals. So misguided.

(Scratches head)

This is just plain...muh...
DHomme
30-05-2005, 22:46
(Scratches head)

This is just plain...muh...

muh?
The_ United_Kingdom
30-05-2005, 22:48
Ahhhh, liberals. So misguided.

I can agree with you on that!
Intangelon
30-05-2005, 22:49
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=588782005

Ahhhh, liberals. So misguided.

Just like all those "American" cars made in Mexico. Please don't tell me you believe this kind of irony is reserved for liberals only.
DHomme
30-05-2005, 22:52
Just like all those "American" cars made in Mexico. Please don't tell me you believe this kind of irony is reserved for liberals only.

No other groups are more misguided/corrupt/greedy but liberals think they can end poverty without ending capitalism.
The Noble Men
30-05-2005, 22:52
One word: Whoops!
BLARGistania
30-05-2005, 22:54
No other groups are more misguided/corrupt/greedy but liberals think they can end poverty without ending capitalism.

when did they say that?
Potaria
30-05-2005, 22:55
when did they say that?

^ What he said.
DHomme
30-05-2005, 22:56
when did they say that?
are you kidding me? These guys want to drop the "unpayable" amount of debt and make "fair trade". They want capitalism, but with a few more crumbs for the lower-middle classes
Darwens Commie Exiles
30-05-2005, 22:57
that'll be 'common sense' then
Squi
30-05-2005, 23:02
lol. all I can say or need to say.
BLARGistania
31-05-2005, 00:11
are you kidding me? These guys want to drop the "unpayable" amount of debt and make "fair trade". They want capitalism, but with a few more crumbs for the lower-middle classes

No, liberals want to pay off the debt because debt + deficit spending = bad.

Liberals would also like fair trade because it removed the patron-client/dependancy theories out of the international arena. Those two theories are pretty much what keeps the third world third world.

And why not capitalism with social programs? It works.
Subterranean_Mole_Men
31-05-2005, 00:37
ha ha that is funny. It is like US army soldiers wearing parts of their uniform with "made in china" logos.
Tuesday Heights
31-05-2005, 00:39
Ahhhh, liberals. So misguided.

Explain to me how this has anything to do with liberals?
Wegason
31-05-2005, 00:42
Explain to me how this has anything to do with liberals?
Exactly, it should be something like

"Ah, the hypocritical idiots, producing anti poverty wristbands under slave labour conditions, how fitting" :p
Upitatanium
31-05-2005, 01:04
Don't see how it's related to liberals. Christian groups, right and left, do lots to try and end world hunger.

My guess is that they got a middleman to arrange a manufacturer that could do it cheaply so less money would go to make the bands so more money would go towards the charity. The charity was likely not directly involved.

I find it disturbing that you are suggesting that only liberals are concerned about poverty.
Straughn
31-05-2005, 02:18
Don't see how it's related to liberals. Christian groups, right and left, do lots to try and end world hunger.

My guess is that they got a middleman to arrange a manufacturer that could do it cheaply so less money would go to make the bands so more money would go towards the charity. The charity was likely not directly involved.

I find it disturbing that you are suggesting that only liberals are concerned about poverty.
In this climate it appears that the hijacked term "liberals" suits anybody who needs someone to blame some of their own problems on. Just the catch-stigma of the times.
Meh
Domici
31-05-2005, 02:32
Explain to me how this has anything to do with liberals?

Probably because conservatives know and don't care about all the suffering that American consumerism causes and are perfectly happy to contribute to it. If they find out that their products cause disproportionate suffering to others, it doesn't come as a surprise to them.

Liberals on the other hand try to minimize that sort of thing, and occaisionally conservatives trying to play to that will sucker them. Look at Starbucks for example.

They try to appeal to liberals by looking liberal over here. (http://starbucksgossip.typepad.com/_/2005/03/some_conservati.html)

And then they go union busting over here. (http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/features/12060/)

A liberal buying starbucks on the strength of the first link is misguided and upon hearing of the second will be surprised and dismayed. A conservative hearing the second story, despite his ignorance of it, won't give a shit, and was thus never mislead, unless he stopped buying starbucks on the strength of the first story told to him by someone at New World Coffee.
New Foxxinnia
31-05-2005, 02:48
Just like all those "American" cars made in Mexico. Please don't tell me you believe this kind of irony is reserved for liberals only.And those Japanese cars made in America. Which are better than the Mexican made cars, and are made cheaper somehow.
BLARGistania
31-05-2005, 05:21
Probably because conservatives know and don't care about all the suffering that American consumerism causes and are perfectly happy to contribute to it. If they find out that their products cause disproportionate suffering to others, it doesn't come as a surprise to them.

Liberals on the other hand try to minimize that sort of thing, and occaisionally conservatives trying to play to that will sucker them. Look at Starbucks for example.

They try to appeal to liberals by looking liberal over here. (http://starbucksgossip.typepad.com/_/2005/03/some_conservati.html)

And then they go union busting over here. (http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/news/features/12060/)

A liberal buying starbucks on the strength of the first link is misguided and upon hearing of the second will be surprised and dismayed. A conservative hearing the second story, despite his ignorance of it, won't give a shit, and was thus never mislead, unless he stopped buying starbucks on the strength of the first story told to him by someone at New World Coffee.

I'm very proud to say that because of what starbucks does, I have never, ever, with foreknowledge purchased a starbucks product.

I have bought a soda from a different bottling company, I'm sure starbucks made a profit off that, and I ordered coffee from Barnes and Noble once, forgetting they 'brewed' starbucks.

Those are the only two black marks on my coffee soul.
Texpunditistan
31-05-2005, 05:37
HAHA! Classic! I just blogged about this. :D
Intangelon
31-05-2005, 07:12
And those Japanese cars made in America. Which are better than the Mexican made cars, and are made cheaper somehow.

Now there's some irony.
Undelia
31-05-2005, 07:25
Great link Dhomme. Just more proof of the Hypocracy of the liberal elite.

Explain to me how this has anything to do with liberals?

I beleive the article says that these bands are worn by rich Hollywood types. These people tend to be liberals.
Seangolia
31-05-2005, 07:39
Great link Dhomme. Just more proof of the Hypocracy of the liberal elite.



I beleive the article says that these bands are worn by rich Hollywood types. These people tend to be liberals.

Ah, but those rich Hollywood types didn't have anything to do with the production or sale of the product. They only wore them to demonstrate their stance on the issue.
Beth Gellert
31-05-2005, 07:39
Here's some people who don't know what the word, "irony" means.
Ursos
31-05-2005, 07:47
Great link Dhomme. Just more proof of the Hypocracy of the liberal elite.



I beleive the article says that these bands are worn by rich Hollywood types. These people tend to be liberals.

Look, i cant stand devout liberals either. in fact they piss me off like you wouldnt believe, but probably for differnt reasons. but to make such an idiotic generalization like that, it only creates conflict. example, say someone is... it doesnt matter, black, jewish, white, hispanic, but for arguements sake lets go with black. now someone says something like, well those black types tend to be violent anyway, you are now taking an entire group, in this case rich hollywood types, and attaching a negative (in your eyes) word to them. even if the "rich hollywood types." are more often liberal than conservative or whatever else you cant just loop everyone in a group into one catagory and assume they are all the same. say, again for arguements sake, 70 percent of jews were murderers, do you think its right to prosecute every single one for murder, treat each one as a criminal, jsut for your own convenience, to save time and energy? Washington is spinning in his grave. What happened to the idea of a partyless america. dont you see what comming together as a group like this is doing? you are banning together as conservatives in this case and forcing the opposite, liberal oppinions out, but what thats also doing is forcing everyone in your own group to agree, eliminating individual thought. when we go to vote someone into office now you are voting for the party as much as the individual, it limits choice and democracy, and now we are counting on the struggle between these two major parties to keep us a democracy. if the liberals, or the conservatives had their way the system would be like iraq pre 9/11. one party, one oppinion, one choice. go cast your goddamn ballot, im sure it will make a difference. it might sound stupid to all of you, and im sorry for being so harsh and accusitory, but you have to start thinking about the consequences of your actions, everyne does, think about what the future would be like if you had your way, use all your insight, you might be frightened. i dont mean to sound like one of those idiotic cant we all get along types, because ive come to the conclusion that we really cant, not perfectly, but to stop trying is jsut pointless. even if you dont agree with someones oppinion, you have to understand it, or your point is invalid, and your arguement will never grow. and then one day, with most issues anyway, that your oppinions and your adversaries are differnt due to fundamental differences in morals, and then you will need to trace your opinioins and morals all the way back, to a basic human desire, the source of all objectives, and only then will you really understand what you want, and what is right, and how to learn o agree to dissagree. but one thing is for sure, none of this enlightenment will happen in the midst of idiotic name calling and splitting up into sides that limit your freedom of thought. just try...
Undelia
31-05-2005, 08:02
but to make such an idiotic generalization like that, it only creates conflict

I apologize if I offended you. I thought that "tend to be" was an effective qualifier. I know that not all of Hollywood is liberal, just look at Swarzinnager. I also know that it is bad business to "come out" as a conservative in Hollywood, so many "stay in the closet". I was just simply trying to explain why people can make a connection to liberals.

Washington is spinning in his grave. What happened to the idea of a partyless america

Human nature happened. People nautrally form support groups, their primary purpose is to raise money for candidates after all. Whether or not these parties have gained to much influens is up for debate, however. Though I don't think any sane person could think that they havn't.
Refused Party Program
31-05-2005, 09:25
No other groups are more misguided/corrupt/greedy but liberals think they can end poverty without ending capitalism.

:D

Gotta love that naive optimism.






















































Says the utopian.
Ursos
31-05-2005, 09:46
This is a little off topic, but this is why many people dont go about trying to preech nuetrality. people like me, like my friends, we realize the fuetility of it all. that you wont make a difference, that you cant create peace just throguh discussion, or really by any means. there is this story about a woman on the beach who throws back the starfish when the tide comes out, even though she cant save them all, she wants to save them all. i hate that story, as a biologist. nature should jsut take its course, throwing back starfish upsets the balance... still, this impulse of mine to try and bring balance to the world, is as natural as anything that exists, jsut liek the womans impulse to save starfish. thats why i need to do my part, throw one back... none of this matters. i dont understand why people feel th need to control other peoples lives. what the government should be about rather than trying to control peoples lives is preventing peoples lives from being controlled. taking away power from those who try and control others. thats what the benefit of society is in my mind. if i am weak, other people would, supposedly save me from others who try and controll me. why else should we exist? to tell people what is right or wrong, to step outside our boundries and expand them, to try and control people? security... that need for root, look at al lthe problems its created. i dont blame people for being powerhungry. i really dont. it feels safer when you have more power, when everyone agrees with you when the conflict happens far away from you. what is even safer though is eliminating the conflict at the source. to find the basic emotions, whether they are fear or desperation, that cause all these conflict. this issue, with the wristbands being manufactured in slave like conditions... what is the issue here. i think within this forum and anyone who is both sane and educated it can be pretty universally agreed that slave like conditions to manufacture anything especially these bracelets is kind of wrong, and there was nothing to debate until whoever started this thread associated this stupidity with liberals. its kind of funny, and at he same time kind of sad how much fighting there is, over stupid things like that, when both sides, the people who really believe in their causes, probably have their hearts in the same places. they just want whats best for what they care about, themselves, their family, their country, race, the entire world, maybe even te universe if someone can relate on that braod a level. we do too much argueing and not enough understanding. its not that i hate a liberal attitude, or a conservative attitude. i hate the closemindedness that occures so frequently on both sides. why not try to work together, understand eachother, understand your indivudual needs, so one day you can feel safe just floating, outside of groups. i know its human nature to want to form groups. ive spent the larger part of my adolesence drifting from group to group, bouncing in and out in a search for comfort, until i realize that thats not really how to find personal peace at all, and that despite how wonderful it is, there are more important things than your own life, and your own safty. not even principles, thats not what i mean at all, most of the time i say someone who dies for their principles is a fool. but see, the thing is, its not jsut one thing thats more important. people in power, and really anyone, because everyone has some amount of pwoer, tend to use their power as if everyone felt the same thing was most important. i love nature, but i understand that not everyone else does, and if i were a ruler i wouldnt jsut assume everyone would find happiness and peace the same way i do... the point that im making, is yes, groups are natural, sometimes even healthy, but once you lose touch with yourtself as an individual, your no longer one individual belonging to a group, but an organ in a larger body, an ant i na colonoy, a mindless worker. i dont know about you people, but i cant be satisfied with life as a cog in a machine. Im not even a nonconformist or anything, i really dont mind if my actions are satisfying someone elses ends that are not my own, but its not my purpose in life, and i get no satisfaction from it. do you?
Asengard
31-05-2005, 10:13
I'm bothered about the rubber that's going to be left over after the fad's finished. They should have made the bands out of something biodegradable instead!
Mekonia
31-05-2005, 10:55
hahahahaha, at least the sweatshop workers are still being paid!
Come on, the bands are only E1, where else would they be made?
DHomme
31-05-2005, 13:00
The fact that 'make poverty history' is a liberal organisation is not the main focus of this article, i just wanted to make a little jab at them. The main focus here is that this group who says they want to abolish global poverty (under capitalism) is using sweatshop labour and so are creating more poverty than they are solving.
Aldisia
31-05-2005, 13:05
I thought the 'Make Poverty History' bands were made out of some kinda fabric. It's the 'Livestrong' bands (which are also for charity) which are rubber. I personally support Make Poverty History, so I'm not keen to see it hit by something like this.
Sonho Real
31-05-2005, 13:09
You can get white rubber Make Poverty History bands and fabric ones (white, with black writing). Mine was made by Traidcraft, so that one should be all ok at least.
Beadon
31-05-2005, 13:22
This isn't just an issue that liberals run into. Everyone initiates programs to fight one cause or another and gets embarrassed when some supplier of a supplier of a supplier uses some technique/process/labor that goes against their message. It happens to both sides of any argument. Look at the Catholic church and the image of wholesome abstinant life they tried to protray when several of their priests were secretly groping little boys.

On top of that, I'd say that people allow slip-ups like these sorts of embarassments to ruin the image of the company/organization more than they should. For example, The Church (a huge entity) can't be watching every single priest in its organization. That'd be like you keeping an eye on every skin cell you have to make sure it doesn't go wonky on you. In this case, I'm sure someone said, "call so and so and order a bunch of these." And that person called up someone and said, "I need a hundred thousand of these, can you find someone to supply them?" And that person called up someone and said, "I have someone that needs a hundred thousand of these, can you produce them?" And they said yeah. They left out that they're made by chinese people crammed into warehouses like sardines.

Rather than pointing and laughing so much at the slip-up, pay attention to how the company/organization reacts to the slip-up and you'll see what sort of organization they truly are. If they foist the blame off on someone else, they're slippery. If they say, "oops, our bad," and set up a new supplier who doesn't use sweat shop labor, then they're good people.
Aldisia
31-05-2005, 14:17
BLARGistania, I think you have 'fear' spelt wrong in your sig. It should read 'ph33r', duh. :p
Eternal Green Rain
31-05-2005, 14:37
These bands have nothing to do with politics. They're all about fashion.
I wont let my daughter buy them (except the anti bully ones). If she wants to give to charity that's fine, it's her money but buying a wrist band both lines the pockets of the manufacturer and makes a naff public statement about how "good" you are.
Just shut up and give the money.
That's liberal for you. Only a pretentious prick buys the band and that's fashion for you.
LiazFaire
31-05-2005, 14:55
ahhh many of you are american... and thus seem to have a really bizaar idea of what 'liberal' or indeed the ideology of 'liberalism' entails... you appear to be mistaking us for socialists...

please don't, red in no way suits my complexion.

the make poverty history things a socialist thing, as is that idiot geldoff, whilst I can see why many liberals may support it in theory, this bizaar idea that some of you seem to be attaching to liberals that they want to get rid of capitalism is ridiculous.

and yeah the bands are totally a kitsch fashion craze, anyone that didn't realise that really needs to take their head out of the sand.

oh and finally 'Liberal elite'??!?!?! i've heard this bandied about, anyone care to explain to me who from the 'elite' is actually 'liberal'? I think you'll find most of them are far more red then anything else.
Eternal Green Rain
31-05-2005, 15:06
ahhh many of you are american... and thus seem to have a really bizaar idea of what 'liberal' or indeed the ideology of 'liberalism' entails... you appear to be mistaking us for socialists...

please don't, red in no way suits my complexion.

the make poverty history things a socialist thing, as is that idiot geldoff, whilst I can see why many liberals may support it in theory, this bizaar idea that some of you seem to be attaching to liberals that they want to get rid of capitalism is ridiculous.

and yeah the bands are totally a kitsch fashion craze, anyone that didn't realise that really needs to take their head out of the sand.

oh and finally 'Liberal elite'??!?!?! i've heard this bandied about, anyone care to explain to me who from the 'elite' is actually 'liberal'? I think you'll find most of them are far more red then anything else.
If the elite are red it's because they can afford to be. Which rather makes them socialist sell outs unless they're giving their millions to poverty sticken africans. Not something you see too often.
The elite i've met only support whatever politics makes or at least keeps them rich. they may wear red, green or blue hats but it's all bullshit.

Why do people have a porblem abolishing world poverty. Should an ex-dictatorship suffer because of a leader who's been gone 20 years?
Should people who live in slums be poor because their leaders have borrowed to build dams to power cities? or borrowed to buy weapons to fight the wars of the US and the USSR?
I say abolish the debt of all broadly democratic counties just once.
Whispering Legs
31-05-2005, 15:10
I was listening to National Public Radio this morning, and they characterized the No vote in France as a vote against the elite. People outside of Paris - the common working people - can't stand the elite who live in Paris, or who run Brussels, etc.

So they voted No.

Sound familiar? American working people, tired of the Hollywood elite, tired of a Democratic Party who hunkers down in the major cities, abandons the rural areas, and constantly refers to the common man as a "redneck"...

Maybe America isn't so strange after all, eh?
LiazFaire
31-05-2005, 15:15
the socialists are taking over... silly peoples
Eternal Green Rain
31-05-2005, 15:23
the socialists are taking over... silly peoples
Muh! they all screw you in the end.
LiazFaire
31-05-2005, 15:51
I presume by 'they' you mean polititians... and this is of course tragically part of the nature of power, thus why free democratic elections are a necessity and why it is important that liberal parties stick to their moral and ideological grounding without abandoning them for the lure of more power.
Xanaz
31-05-2005, 16:02
No other groups are more misguided/corrupt/greedy but liberals think they can end poverty without ending capitalism.

You make it sound like they all know each other..lol

There are many different types of liberals, same as there is many different types of conservatives.

Such a statement is either to inflame the liberals on this site, or showing a complete lack of knowledge in the variety of different levels of both liberals or conservatives for that matter.
DHomme
31-05-2005, 16:21
You make it sound like they all know each other..lol

There are many different types of liberals, same as there is many different types of conservatives.

Such a statement is either to inflame the liberals on this site, or showing a complete lack of knowledge in the variety of different levels of both liberals or conservatives for that matter.

No I just dont like liberals. Not neoliberals, classic liberals or libertarians who at least admit theyre selfish, but liberals as current society defines them. The ones who like putting money into pointless programs with no results
Whispering Legs
31-05-2005, 16:28
No I just dont like liberals. Not neoliberals, classic liberals or libertarians who at least admit theyre selfish, but liberals as current society defines them. The ones who like putting money into pointless programs with no results

Hmm. Would the current French government count? The "elite" of Paris running the country without a care for the working man?