NationStates Jolt Archive

Because we about are, we're just disagreeing on if the act itself is sinful or if the sin if found within the intent. Since I, morally speaking, do not believe in moral absolutes I cannot cast ANYTHING as a sin unless I know the motovation of those what done it (To mangle Brit English for fun).

Is killing ALWAYS wrong? Depends.
Theft? Depends
Lying? Depends
Wanting? Depends

There's so many depends out there (not the Depends product) that I am forced to look at the motovation of people in order to decide.

So to me, if the heart is evil, sinful, the act becomes so.
If the heart is good, then I must ask further to decide because the act might become one of virtue.

not everything is relative

catholic athiest? Does that mean you believe in God but you don't believe in God?
you have a problem with that?

it must not be all that uncommon. im a catholic atheist also

not everything is relative
Then what isn't?
(I might also recomend you to look up Lawrence Kohlberg’s Theory of Moral Devlopment and the base work of Jean Piaget for more information. It dovetails nicely with what I have been saying)

n/t

you have a problem with that?

it must not be all that uncommon. im a catholic atheist also
??????????

Then what isn't?
(I might also recomend you to look up Lawrence Kohlberg’s Theory of Moral Devlopment and the base work of Jean Piaget for more information. It dovetails nicely with what I have been saying)
adultery
abortion
homosexuality
promiscuity
greed
vice
hate
murder
etc.

If someone writes something and it contradicts the word of God, for a christian, the word of God takes precedence. I thought you said you were a christian.
For me as a christian, even the writings of Locke and Jefferson take a backseat.

Meh, a lot of people are slipping into becoming Christians by name only. I'm an agnostic, but I've noticed a lot of people are part-time Christian...when you want direction and spiritual comfort, you'll go through the motions but most times, you'll break the rules but since you technically "believe"...you get absolved from everything morally incorrect you do...I've listened to people justify cheating in their relationships using biblical quotes.

Seems to me that it's always been twisted to fit the needs of the believer, although it's getting to a point where blending real world science and scripture results in people not being responsible for anything they do. Sin ain't that bad anymore I guess. This is my observation.

Meh, a lot of people are slipping into becoming Christians by name only. I'm an agnostic, but I've noticed a lot of people are part-time Christian...when you want direction and spiritual comfort, you'll go through the motions but most times, you'll break the rules but since you technically "believe"...you get absolved from everything morally incorrect you do...I've listened to people justify cheating in their relationships using biblical quotes.

Seems to me that it's always been twisted to fit the needs of the believer, although it's getting to a point where blending real world science and scripture results in people not being responsible for anything they do. Sin ain't that bad anymore I guess. This is my observation.
Well, actually you are right about that and the Bible predicted that would happen.
But note that Jesus said "Not all who call me Lord, will enter heaven. But rather those who both believe in me and also do my will."
There are several places in the Bible where it tells you how differentiate the true christians from the false.

adultery
abortion
homosexuality
promiscuity
greed
vice
hate
murder
etc.

I will give you the 7 vices, but let me see here...
Killing: Is it wrong to kill those who would kill you? Kill to protect those you love? Did not God command to kill? Kill to ease suffering? Those are wrong?

Promiscuity you will need to define as I am nto sure what boundries you have set.

Homosexulaity: As been pointed out, Jesus never said anything about this. The old laws have been fulfilled and we are under HIS laws now, and he said love. And if two people love each other, how is that wrong?

Abortion: Again, where is it listed? And do you really feel God would consider it a sin to save the life of the mother? He does not trade lives like that. Consider if said mother is already a mother and this chid would indeed kill her, is it right then that both baby AND mother die and be taken away from her other children?

[/QUOTE]If someone writes something and it contradicts the word of God, for a christian, the word of God takes precedence. I thought you said you were a christian.
For me as a christian, even the writings of Locke and Jefferson take a backseat.[/QUOTE]
You need to read it BEFORE you condem it. The Theory or Moral Development states how mroality developes within people, their understanding and so on. The final level is the ability to fully put yourself in another's shoes and see from their viewpoint. THAT is what Jesus did. How many times does it say that He knew the other's heart? Which is what I mean that until you see, truly see, the other's view and understand their actions you cannot judge or condem because you do not know. That example I follow from Jesus Himself. He knew the evil in the hearts of the so called holy men of the time AND he knew the good of those he should have condemed, which speaks to that God weighs our hearts, not our actions during that final day. Then is sin reviled and then is evil and good seperated.

The fundamental part of christian teachings are that:
adultery is sin
abortion is sin
homosexuality is sin

And there are other things I could list, but those were the things that were being discussed. And this is what I learned from the Bible of what it is to be a true christian.

Being a christian does not mean you ignore sin nor does it teach that everyone will go to heaven. It says only a minority will cause the majority will reject the true teachings of Christ.

Now this is not all I got to say about what it is to be a christian, its just a start.

But I am breaking here so people can have a chance to reply.
No, true Christian is one who believes in the Trinity.

I will give you the 7 vices, but let me see here...
Killing: Is it wrong to kill those who would kill you? Kill to protect those you love? Did not God command to kill? Kill to ease suffering? Those are wrong?

Promiscuity you will need to define as I am nto sure what boundries you have set.

Homosexulaity: As been pointed out, Jesus never said anything about this. The old laws have been fulfilled and we are under HIS laws now, and he said love. And if two people love each other, how is that wrong?

Abortion: Again, where is it listed? And do you really feel God would consider it a sin to save the life of the mother? He does not trade lives like that. Consider if said mother is already a mother and this chid would indeed kill her, is it right then that both baby AND mother die and be taken away from her other children?

If someone writes something and it contradicts the word of God, for a christian, the word of God takes precedence. I thought you said you were a christian.
For me as a christian, even the writings of Locke and Jefferson take a backseat.
You need to read it BEFORE you condem it. The Theory or Moral Development states how mroality developes within people, their understanding and so on. The final level is the ability to fully put yourself in another's shoes and see from their viewpoint. THAT is what Jesus did. How many times does it say that He knew the other's heart? Which is what I mean that until you see, truly see, the other's view and understand their actions you cannot judge or condem because you do not know. That example I follow from Jesus Himself. He knew the evil in the hearts of the so called holy men of the time AND he knew the good of those he should have condemed, which speaks to that God weighs our hearts, not our actions during that final day. Then is sin reviled and then is evil and good seperated.

hold on. Hold on. That is not Christianity. Jesus never said "go do whatever the heck you want. You'll get into heaven regardless." You will not find that anywhere in the Bible.

1. He also said, those who live by sword will die by the sword.

2. Promiscuity is any sex outside of marriage.

3. Homosexuality as was pointed out in this thread earlier, is defined as sin by not just the prophets and the apostles but by Jesus himself. It is written that man shall not lay with man as man lays with woman.

4. He said that law will not be fulfilled until Heaven and Earth are passed away. He did not abolish the law. Matthew 5:17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law
And through out the writings of the gospels and the writings of the Aposltes you will not find anything where it says that you dont' have to obey the laws of God. No where does it say that you will get into heaven no matter what you do. If you reject the godship of Jesus, you are not getting into heaven.
If you reject the truth, you are not getting into heaven.

5. Their writings are only valid if they are based on scripture, if they are based on the inspiration of the holy spirit. Which, they most likely are not.


The original Christians had a name for your type of Christianity. And they condemned it for the twisting of truth that it was.
In fact the very first division in the church was between the believers of Christ and those who claimed to follow Christ but preached that people would go to heaven no matter what they did. See people back then were infiltrating the church teaching there was no moral code for christians. And Paul and Peter were excommunicating them. As Paul wrote, if anyone claiming to be a christian and does and teaches that which is contrary to what we have taught, show him the error of his ways. If he refuses to change, excommunicate him.
Even Jesus himself, said that not just anyone is allowed into heaven but those who obey the laws of God. That is in the scripture. That is the words of Jesus.
You see, what you are promoting is nothing new. Jesus and the apostles condemned it back in the day, just as it is condemned now.

*Snipage
So do you want a sarcastic reply to this one or a very long throughtful one?

Doom777']No, true Christian is one who believes in the Trinity.


Even Satan believes that Christ is the Son of God, and that God is the Father. Is Satan a "true Christian?"

Belief in the Trinity will not be enough to save you.

For it is written,

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



Iniquity basically means sin and evil.

John 1

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

9. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Stating that Jesus is also God.

16. And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
No one has seen God. Not one person.

John 2:23. Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did.
24. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men,
25. And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
He knows the thoughts and secrets of everyone.

John 3:9. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10. Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11. Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
only Jesus has ascended to heaven.

{quote]16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.[/quote]

If you continue in sin, you are not in the light but are in opposition to the light.

19. The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20. Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.[/qoute]
The woman thought he was just a prophet. He revealed himself to be the Messiah.

[quote]John 5
25. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27. And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
He will judge all.

45. Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Do not think that if you continue in sin, that you will get a free ticket.
But if you don't believe the prophets or the Apostles how can you say you believe Jesus?

-Whittier, I have outlined the correct funteamentals in my thread.

-Whittier, I have outlined the correct funteamentals in my thread.
ha. Nice spoof. :D

The fundamental part of christian teachings are that:
adultery is sin
abortion is sin
homosexuality is sin

And there are other things I could list, but those were the things that were being discussed. And this is what I learned from the Bible of what it is to be a true christian.

Being a christian does not mean you ignore sin nor does it teach that everyone will go to heaven. It says only a minority will cause the majority will reject the true teachings of Christ.

Now this is not all I got to say about what it is to be a christian, its just a start.

But I am breaking here so people can have a chance to reply.

Actually, those are not "the fundamentals". The fundamentals are better outlined by the classic Fundamentalist movement (before it was hijacked), as:

1. Biblical Inerrancy
2. Diety of Christ and tri-unity of the Godhead.
3. The virgin birth
4. Substitutionary Death and Ressurection
5. Second Comming.

4 of them are accepted fundamentals accross the entire eccumenical churches(Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Reformed[Continental, Presbyterian and Baptist), Anglican, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Dispensational Baptists, and Charismatic). the 5th is under much dispute (Amillenialism and Premillenialism[Pre- mid- and post-Tribulational] vs. Postmillenialism[Dominionism] and Preterism).

As such, it is used to discount validity of the Jehovah's Witness', Mormons, and Word-Faith Movement as "Christian" denominations, sd classification as "heretical sects". A deliniation between essential doctrines of the core beliefs, and that of divergent doctrines from the core of Church theological views. (Mancheanism, Arianism and the like).

To be a christian means to follow the teachings of Christ, and Christ said absolutely nothing about homosexuality or abortion, and when he came across an adulteress, he stopped her from being stoned with the ever famous "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

The story of the woman taken in adultery in John 8:7, where Jesus supposedly said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her," is apparently a later interpolation as it does not appear in manuscripts or early translations.

Yes Virginia, the New Testament has indeed been corrupted.

The fundamental part of christian teachings are that:
adultery is sin
abortion is sin
homosexuality is sin
These things may be true, but they're hardly fundamental to the religion.

Being a christian does not mean you ignore sin nor does it teach that everyone will go to heaven. It says only a minority will cause the majority will reject the true teachings of Christ.

At least, in the Calvinist flavour this is true.

To be a christian means to follow the teachings of Christ, and Christ said absolutely nothing about homosexuality or abortion, and when he came across an adulteress, he stopped her from being stoned with the ever famous "let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Rather, Christ gave a few statements on how to live. His first two and greatest commandments were to 1) love God with all you have and 2) love your neighbor as yourself. Then there was also the Golden rule--treat others as you would be treated. And then there were the beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount--you know, blessed are the merciful, etc.

You know, if you want to talk about christianity, Whittier, you might try reading what Christ actually said rather than listening to church leaders.
Abortion
This document reflects commonly held beliefs based on scripture which have been endorsed by the church's Commission on Doctrinal Purity and the Executive Presbytery.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does the Assemblies of God oppose abortion?
The Assemblies of God is unashamedly pro-life. Even though a United States Supreme Court decision legalized abortion in 1973, abortion is still immoral and sinful. This stand is founded on the biblical truth that all human life is created in the image of God (Genesis 1:27). From that truth issues the long-standing Christian view that aborting the life of a developing child is evil.

Those who defend abortion claim that an unborn child in the early stages of development is merely fetal tissue, not a person. But neither science nor medicine can declare an arbitrary time during pregnancy when human life begins. The Bible indicates that human life begins at conception (Job 31:15, Psalm 139:13-16). Because of the sacredness of human life, the matter is settled by theological statement of Scripture, not by a medical determination of viability outside the mother’s womb.

There is a Christian alternative to abortion. Instead of terminating the life of the unborn child, the newborn can be placed for adoption by loving Christians. Adoption is a concept authored by God, for all Christian believers have been adopted into the family of God. By choosing to give birth to her baby rather than having an abortion, the birth mother spares the life of a child created in the image of God.

CONCERNS:

Some professing Christians use unchristian methods to oppose abortion. But we must never forget the priority God places on His spiritual and material creation. The soul and where it will spend eternity is of primary importance. Believers must recognize God also loves those who are proabortion, so we must show compassion also. Yet, at the same time, we must try to halt the horrendous murder of innocents in our country.

Just stopping abortions is not enough. The church must show compassion and support toward those who carry their child to birth but do not have the needed resources or an awareness of adoption options.

Because of the advances in medical science, very few mothers today die in pregnancy or childbirth. Yet in some infrequent cases saving the life of the child or of the mother may mean the death of the other. If after prayer for God’s intervention, the problem is not resolved, consultation with attending pro-life physicians will be helpful in arriving at the proper conclusion.

Homosexual Conduct
This document reflects commonly held beliefs based on scripture which have been endorsed by the church's Commission on Doctrinal Purity and the Executive Presbytery.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is the Assemblies of God’s position on homosexual relationships?
The Assemblies of God believes strongly that God has declared great displeasure and opposition toward homosexual conduct. However, He yearns to restore and forgive all who come to Him, including homosexuals. Unfortunately, many today mislabel those who speak out against the sin of homosexuality as hate-mongers and prejudiced people seeking to oppress and take away the rights of homosexuals. But these persons view homosexuality from a skewed social perspective devoid of true biblical morality. The Church, however, is called to be faithful to God’s Word in all things. For this reason the Assemblies of God opposes homosexuality and the gay lifestyle recognizing such as sin. But we encourage all members to reach out in love to homosexuals extending to them the grace that leads us all to Christ’s forgiveness.

Homosexuality is both a sin against God and mankind. It runs contrary to the divine plan, purpose, and will of God who created us in His image (Genesis 1:27) and redeemed us so that this image, marred because of sin, might be renewed (Colossians 3:10). Most fundamentally, homosexuality is sin because it perverts the created order of human sexuality, the heterosexual fulfillment of both man and woman (1 Corinthians 7:2-5). In creating the first man and woman, God ultimately established the family consisting of a father, a mother, and eventually children. Society is founded on this social unit which propagates the human race. In total contrast, the lifestyle and practice of homosexual couples establish a social unit that thwarts that process and the creative purposes of God for humanity.

Clearly the Bible states homosexual practice is sin. Scriptures which denounce homosexuality are found in both the Old and New Testaments. Advocates of homosexuality often attempt to rationalize, reinterpret, and explain away key biblical truths to justify their acts. Such abuse of inspired Scripture is wrong. Along with the passages that clearly describe homosexual conduct as sin (see below), the Bible speaks repeatedly about God’s divinely ordained plan of heterosexual relationships and marriage.

Genesis 19. In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, the "men" of Sodom demand to "know" the angelic visitors of Lot (v.5, KJV). Attempts to describe the request as merely a desire to get acquainted with the strangers does not fit the context. Other biblical passages link Sodom with sexual immorality and perversion (2 Peter 2:6-7; Jude 7).

Leviticus 18:22. The specific command that a man is not to "lie with a man as one lies with a woman; [for] that is detestable" is sometimes attacked by pro-homosexual scholars who argue that Christians are no longer under the Mosaic Law. But there is a sharp distinction between the dietary or ceremonial laws abolished in the New Testament (Mark 7:19; Hebrews 10:8-10) and the moral laws reinforced in the New Testament. They are still applicable today. Breaking the ceremonial laws resulted in temporary uncleanness; breaking the moral laws meant severe punishment or even death (Leviticus 11 and 24).

Romans 1:26, 27. This New Testament passage is the most pointed and clear condemnation of homosexuality (among men or women) in the Bible. "Women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. . . . Men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion." Some pro-homosexual scholars claim that Paul’s statements were addressed to first-century believers and thus are not applicable today. But God’s moral laws do not change.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10. God’s inclusion of homosexual conduct with other specific sexual and social sins is clear from Paul’s first letter to the Corinthian church: "Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." Some defenders of the homosexual lifestyle have tried to explain away the terms "male prostitutes" and "homosexual offenders" by claiming that they refer to general immoral behavior rather than homosexual practice. But such a meaning of the Greek cannot be found in first-century literature and the translation would result in needless redundancy, for Paul began his list with "the sexually immoral." The two words refer to the sins of passive and active homosexual behavior.

Some pro-homosexual advocates try to refute the biblical injunctions against homosexuality by saying the Bible speaks against promiscuity and prostitution, not against loving, committed gay relationships. Some unfaithful spouses of heterosexual marriages have tried to justify adultery on the same grounds, but nowhere does Scripture suggest that loving, committed relationships of any kind can turn sin into righteousness. God does not permit mankind to reinterpret the clear teaching of Scripture to justify personal sinful desires.

As Christians we must ask what Paul meant in Romans by calling homosexual acts unnatural (Romans 1:26, 27). Human logic tells us they are unnatural because if practiced universally, the human race would soon die out. From a social perspective they are unnatural because they are degrading to the sensitivities of the large majority of the population. (Some homosexuals claim wrongly that 10 percent of the population is homosexual. This exaggerated percentage, based on Alfred Kinsey’s faulty sexual-practices survey in 1948 and 1970, has been accurately set at between 1 and 3 percent in several recent and better documented studies).

One of the myths propounded by pro-homosexual advocates is that homosexual orientation is genetically determined and that people have no choice in the matter. There is no scientific evidence to support this claim. Linking a particular behavior with a specific gene is considered highly unlikely by geneticists. Some would like to believe this myth, for it could be used to excuse all sin and evil behavior. In contrast, ministers and psychologists are treating homosexuality with success, which further discredits the genetic theory. The fact that God’s transforming power has changed the lifestyle of many homosexuals is well documented.

Finally, homosexual acts are unnatural because of their high correlation with major illnesses and terminal disease. In viewing Romans 1:27 we must ask what is the "due penalty" mentioned "for their perversion." Though AIDS is not necessarily a direct judgment from God, as innocents are sometimes the victims of the sin of others, it remains a disastrous overarching consequence of sin through the fall of man (see Genesis 3). Contrary to the claims by homosexual public relations campaigns that gays and lesbians are normal, healthy, average people, the opposite is true. Former homosexuals describe a disgusting lifestyle of perversion and sexual obsession. In a study of the median age of death for heterosexuals and homosexuals, less than 2 per cent of homosexuals survived to age 65 while married and single heterosexual men and women living past 65 ranged from 57 to 80 percent.

Clearly on every front whether it be moral, spiritual, physical, or psychological, the practice of homosexuality has proven itself devoid of any individual good or social benefit. Furthermore, the historical record shows homosexuality as detrimental to the well-being of the individual participant, the extended family, and society at large.

At every turn the Assemblies of God refutes the practice, the acceptance, and the promotion of homosexuality, yet admonishes all Christians to reach out in love to all homosexuals so they too may repent and know the forgiveness and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

CONCERNS:

Some people ask, "Why can’t Christians live and let live, leaving homosexuals alone?" At one time Christians were silent concerning the evil practice of homosexuals. History shows homosexuality has been around since early times, and as long as it was not openly flaunted, homosexuals were seldom challenged. But today, homosexuals have become aggressive in pushing their agenda. The church has been forced to answer.

Today, families with members who choose a homosexual lifestyle sometimes call for social acceptance of the deviant lifestyle. Some churches hearing this cry or impacted by revelations of homosexual clergy within their ranks have responded by advocating a gay-friendly theology of compassion. But lowering God’s holy standards to mankind’s sinful preferences is an abomination in God’s sight. As members of the body of Christ, we must not ignore God’s clear admonitions.

The homosexual agenda has already impacted public education, public policy, the military, government, politics, business, entertainment, media, and religion. As inroads have been made into these areas, both the arts and the media have openly promoted acceptance of its sinful behavior. Major companies are now appealing to the homosexual market through sponsorship of homosexual events that influence general public opinion about homosexuality. Such aggressiveness demands that Christians not sit idly by as this morally deficient agenda is pushed.

In the face of a militant homosexual movement that is pressing for legal and social acceptance of homosexuality, the church must keep its focus. First, homosexuals are sinners like everyone and need God’s grace, love, and forgiveness. Second, homosexuals can through the miracle of the new birth be set free from the power of sin and live changed moral lives. The church must reach out to all sinners with the love of Christ, no matter what the sin. And we must never let the declining moral climate of our nation pressure us into condoning what God condemns.

I can't read all of this.

Whittier, if you think the first thing to mention when talking about Christianity is what certain sins are then I think you're getting the wrong impression of what Christianity is.

It's not some moral code. It's not some promise of reward. Christianity is not God being all authoritarian and favouring those who suck up to him on face value but underneath secretly do it because they're benefitting from it.

It's about a change in mindset; about not just living the life but actually experiencing God as a friend and father figure in the same way Jesus did.

At least, it should be. I get the feeling that the Christianity you're talking about is the modern day greed-appeasing Organisation rather than the principles of Christ. And I suppose that could arguably change what it actually is. But if the church can do that, why should I pay any sort of attention to it?

I don't want anything to do with a body that distorts God as it pleases, and am well prepared to stand in opposition to it in certain areas if necessary.

Who dug this up?

Who dug this up?
0o

31st of May...

It's the anniversary!

I just replied to it since it was on the first page, but that's quite neat. I wonder if someone was just searching for all threads on 31/5 or something.

The fundamental part of christian teachings are that:
adultery is sin
abortion is sin
homosexuality is sinI like it how you miss the bit about "Love thy neighbor"...

The fundamental part of christian teachings are that:
adultery is sin
abortion is sin
homosexuality is sin

Yeah, and murder is 100% ok.

Well you should remember the last two:

10. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

These people who are persecuted for righteousness sake are the same people who are sincerely out promoting the law of God. They are the ones who promote morality and ethics. They tend to be your whistleblowers or the picketers in front of the abortion clinic.
Now don't go thinking that covers killing abortion docters. There is nothing righteous about murdering. And if you say I am posting support of that, you will be lying cause I said no such thing.

Then you have this one:

11. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

This happens all the time. The true christians are the ones who are persecuted and reviled. Their opinions are most often the minority opinions.
This can be seen from history. And the other thing is, that those christians who do try to live their faith usually do end up being falsely accused.

That is why, later in the old testament, they wrote, if a brother be accused, there must be at least two witnesses.

Do you follow?


Yep...Gays arent persecuted by christians at all...


You know, Im no christian at all, but it sickens me to see so many self-proclaimed christians forget about the whole "do unto others" thing.

Faith must not be blind or it isn't really faith. You must be convinced in your own mind that a particular faith is right. I can tell you the universe is actually part of multiverse. But you have to make up your own mind whether you will believe it and accept.

Faith is nonexistant without doubt. Faith is questioning but still believing.

The Jewish God and the Christian God are technically the same. When Islam began it only rejected Christianity due to the concept of the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and Judaism as corrupted. Otherwise I believe it's a very wise man's way of understanding the Eternal Truth.

Actually the Islamic god Allah is the same and Islam accepts the jewish and christian texts as scripture.

Christianity is the simplest of religions. Only two rules:

Love God
Love everyone else

Yet those two rules are the hardest to follow.

Usually those who claim to be the most religious follow them the least.

Mat 7:22-23

The only fundemental of being a Christian is to love the lord with all your heart, and to accept him as the Messiah.

The fundamental part of christian teachings are that:
adultery is sin
abortion is sin
homosexuality is sin

And there are other things I could list, but those were the things that were being discussed. And this is what I learned from the Bible of what it is to be a true christian.

Being a christian does not mean you ignore sin nor does it teach that everyone will go to heaven. It says only a minority will cause the majority will reject the true teachings of Christ.

Now this is not all I got to say about what it is to be a christian, its just a start.

But I am breaking here so people can have a chance to reply.

You are about 2000 years behind, buddy.

The fundamental christian teaching is that everyone sins, so one sin doesn't matter more than the next. All that matters is that Jesus took the punishment for your sins and all you have to do believe and trust in him as your Lord and Savior.

Regardless of that, where does the bible call abortion an absolute wrong?

Is it true that Whittier is DoS?

Is taking glee in that a sin?

Then I sin.