NationStates Jolt Archive

I used to laugh at the idea of gun control type restrictions on kitchen knives, but it's not just a joke anymore.

Warning: Long, pointy knives may be hazardous to your health.

The authors of an editorial in the latest issue of the British Medical Journal have called for knife reform. The editorial, "Reducing knife crime: We need to ban the sale of long, pointed kitchen knives," notes that the knives are being used to stab people as well as roasts and the odd tin of Spam.
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David Corio for The New York Times

Manufacturers are urged to redesign kitchen knives with rounded tips.
Related Full Text of the Editorial (BMJ.com)

The authors of the essay - Drs. Emma Hern, Will Glazebrook and Mike Beckett of the West Middlesex University Hospital in London - called for laws requiring knife manufacturers to redesign their wares with rounded, blunt tips.

The researchers noted that the rate of violent crime in Britain rose nearly 18 percent from 2003 to 2004, and that in the first two weeks of 2005, 15 killings and 16 nonfatal attacks involved stabbings.
...
Get the rest here (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/27/international/europe/27knife.html).

...My God. We're gonna send our children to school with big bright helmets and walk around with pillows tied to our chests.

I don't see any problem with this idea. I heard that they'd consulted at least some chefs and found no use for the point in the process of food preparation, and assuming that is proven to be truthful, then this is just a reasonable safety standard. Spoons don't come with a sharp point, because it isn't needed, and so if the knives in question do not require it, why not do away with their points?

This isn't exactly like asking children to wear safety goggles while playing conkers.

Yeah OK BG, but it's a KNIFE. It's supposed to be SHARP and POINTY! What's next, electric sockets that don't zap you when you stick a fork in them?

Yeah OK BG, but it's a KNIFE. It's supposed to be SHARP and POINTY! What's next, electric sockets that don't zap you when you stick a fork in them?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Wouldn't electric sockets that don't zap you be a good thing?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Wouldn't electric sockets that don't zap you be a good thing?

No.

Because like this knife ban, it's not universal. You'll have kids growing up who think you CAN stick forks in electric sockets, because the ones in their house don't zap you. Similarly you'll have kids growing up who think knives aren't pointy or sharp, because the ones in their house aren't. It'll be a rude awakening when they happen to forget the entire world isn't as safe as the bubble they grew up in was.

Besides, electric zaps are cool.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Wouldn't electric sockets that don't zap you be a good thing?
I don't think so. Makes me wonder if the electricity is still turned on.

But back to the original proposition, removing sharp points from knives. There is going to be bureaucrat somewhere, probably in Brussels, that realizes that the definition applies equally well to knife edges, razor blade edges, axes, chisels, and every other sharp-edged implement. And with a stroke of a pen, these will be banned.

And the bad guys will still be buying guns and sharpening screwdrivers, while the rest of us can't even slice a tomato.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Wouldn't electric sockets that don't zap you be a good thing?
Actually, the Ground Fault Interrupt circuits do a pretty good job of that already. That's the exception to the "electricity off" problem.

...My God. We're gonna send our children to school with big bright helmets and walk around with pillows tied to our chests.

HAHAHHHAHA, I already do that- I'm special... Jk :P

I don't see any problem with this idea. I heard that they'd consulted at least some chefs and found no use for the point in the process of food preparation, and assuming that is proven to be truthful, then this is just a reasonable safety standard. Spoons don't come with a sharp point, because it isn't needed, and so if the knives in question do not require it, why not do away with their points?

This isn't exactly like asking children to wear safety goggles while playing conkers.

The shortest knife in my kitchen is a French garnishing knife, about half in inch wide at the bolster, two inches long, sharp and pointed. It has to be or you couldn't garnish things with it. It would reach internal organs, if you put a decent thrust behind the stab.

The longest knife I have is a 14" carving knife, about an inch and a half wide at the bolster, also sharp and pointed. It, too, has to be. When carving a roast, a bird, or anything else, you often must insert the point first in order to begin a slice that starts from the bone, and you have to do that frequently. You could pin someone to the wall with it if you tried.

I use the points on my other knives, too, all the time. The people who wrote this study fabricated their claim that pointed kitchen knives are unnecessary. IOW, it is untrue, and they are lying in a weak attempt to make their case.

The control freaks with credentials and social agendae have gone stark, raving mad. I don't know why anyone pays them any attention, but to laugh at them.

Yeah OK BG, but it's a KNIFE. It's supposed to be SHARP and POINTY! What's next, electric sockets that don't zap you when you stick a fork in them?


*absolutely agrees with this statesment SB >:-)*

Ironic isn't it, that a dull kitchen knife is more dangerous to the user than a sharp one (Less control means higher likelihood of mishap while carving the roast) Its all fun and games until someone loses a left testicle, then its a sport...for beaurocrats.

First of all, saying that, "banning thing A is stupid because then somebody will ban thing Y" is absurd. It's like saying that if we allow people to hold hands in public, next thing we know old ladies will be raping puppies in the street. And hey, since we banned riding without seatbelts, I suppose the next thing is for Brussels to re-introduce the guy with the little red flag walking ahead of each car.

Second, knives aren't like germs that one needs to encounter in order to build up an immunity. I've never handled a real hand grenade, but I know not to play hide the pin if I ever do encounter one.

Finally, they're not trying to ban all pointy knives, just the big frick-off ones used in (I think) something like half of all stabbings or fatal stabbings that purportedly don't need to be pointy to do the job they're designed for. If that turns out to be incorrect, then we'll just have to make do with the dangers until somebody invents some way around it.

Of course, if there's no big pointy kitchen knives around, people may just pick up pointy fruit knives or something, instead, but I expect that the argument is that these sorts of makeshift weapons are less likely to end in fatality, and that people's lives will be saved.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and get drunk on ale I let myself be over-charged for because the cashier was pretty.

Perhaps the ban advocates will attempt a compromise as they have done with gun owners in the US. You could possess pointy knives if:

- you pass a background check (optionally may need to prove need for this tool as well)
- you take safety training classes and pass competency testing
- you register them with a Knife Bureau costing taxpayers millions of dollars per year
- you keep them under lock and key when not in use
- the knife manufacturers are responsible for any injuries caused by knives

I don't think the knives are the problem... But I'll play along and let's assume they are all gone.

Next will be increasing reports from the hospitals that people are being stabbed with knitting needles (maybe their balls pinned together), head injuries through flat irons (including major burns) or the occasional "Honey, have you been in the garage messing with my tools? I'm looking for my ham... kapow!"

Cutting off the head to cure the headache does not work. And besides, how did that good ol' Klingon saying go? "There are always weapons!"

And it would be inconsistent not to ban sports for children. So many injuries.

First of all, saying that, "banning thing A is stupid because then somebody will ban thing Y" is absurd. It's like saying that if we allow people to hold hands in public, next thing we know old ladies will be raping puppies in the street. And hey, since we banned riding without seatbelts, I suppose the next thing is for Brussels to re-introduce the guy with the little red flag walking ahead of each car.It's not that absurd at all. Gun rights proponents like me have been saying for years that once guns are banned, knives will be next. Nobody believed us, and I don't think anybody really thought anyone would ever publish a serious papper suggesting a ban on kitchen knives.

It would appear that the Cowards are winning. :(

And it would be inconsistent not to ban sports for children. So many injuries.
Consistent and government in the same sentence, since when it was grammatically valid.

I don't see any problem with this idea. I heard that they'd consulted at least some chefs and found no use for the point in the process of food preparation, and assuming that is proven to be truthful, then this is just a reasonable safety standard. Spoons don't come with a sharp point, because it isn't needed, and so if the knives in question do not require it, why not do away with their points?

This isn't exactly like asking children to wear safety goggles while playing conkers.

Where did they consult these chefs? McDonalds?

The pointy bit is quite usefull, especially for boning/butchery.

(also, it balances the knife for chopping),

You know, as europe goes, so does the power-elite in the United States. We will never be as free, as we are right now-it's enough to almost make a person give up on the whole thing, put an unregistered handgun in his mouth, and pull the trigger, preferably before the Safety-Nazis start banning books for papercuts.

The "Progressive" ideal that you can have a civilization without risk just marches blindly and stupidly onward. The idea of being so risk-averse that someone with alleged intelligence would be promoting "Safety Knives" for cooking as a legal requirement is extremely disheartening. The fact that such a suggestion would be treated as a serious proposal is even more disturbing.

Liberty is the assumpion of responsibility. You can't have Responsibility without attendant risks. No Risk, no Responsibility. No Responsibility, no Liberty.

People go to bars to drink poison (alcohol is a poison. a toxic poison, folks. Drink too much, and it will kill you, drink it in too concentrated a form, and it will kill you...) that in mind, banning another risky activity (smoking in an enclosed space) is ridiculous.

Knives are sharp instruments meant to cut things. Some of us use the pointy-end to start those cuts.
they can also be used to hurt people. LOTS of things can be used to hurt people. You can kill a person with a softbound notebook, or a mirror, or any one of thousands of mundane "harmless" objects.

I don't want to be bubble-wrapped into perfect, helpless, safety.

the cowards are winning, and I don't see any way to stop them. :(

...
Liberty is the assumpion of responsibility. You can't have Responsibility without attendant risks. No Risk, no Responsibility. No Responsibility, no Liberty.
Hey, that's nice - I really liked that!

I don't want to be bubble-wrapped into perfect, helpless, safety.
Bubble-wrap is the next thing to go: People who have tried to protect themselves from evil, dangerous influences of the outside world have "safely" suffocated... ;)

...
the cowards are winning, and I don't see any way to stop them. :(
Thanks. You've answered a question that I've asked myself ever since I started thinking seriously about gun control. There is absolutely no logic to banning guns. Criminals are willing to break the law by definition. Law-abiders won't. Obviously banning guns won't end their use in crime. Okay, that's indisputable. Why is there such a strong anti-gun movement? It's the cowards, of course. There is no logic that will overcome cowardice. You're right, we're done.

Consistent and government in the same sentence, since when it was grammatically valid.

Indeed.

Thanks. You've answered a question that I've asked myself ever since I started thinking seriously about gun control. There is absolutely no logic to banning guns. Criminals are willing to break the law by definition. Law-abiders won't. Obviously banning guns won't end their use in crime. Okay, that's indisputable. Why is there such a strong anti-gun movement? It's the cowards, of course. There is no logic that will overcome cowardice. You're right, we're done.

But it's all "for the children".

You know, as europe goes, so does the power-elite in the United States. We will never be as free, as we are right now-it's enough to almost make a person give up on the whole thing, put an unregistered handgun in his mouth, and pull the trigger, preferably before the Safety-Nazis start banning books for papercuts.

The "Progressive" ideal that you can have a civilization without risk just marches blindly and stupidly onward. The idea of being so risk-averse that someone with alleged intelligence would be promoting "Safety Knives" for cooking as a legal requirement is extremely disheartening. The fact that such a suggestion would be treated as a serious proposal is even more disturbing.

Liberty is the assumpion of responsibility. You can't have Responsibility without attendant risks. No Risk, no Responsibility. No Responsibility, no Liberty.

People go to bars to drink poison (alcohol is a poison. a toxic poison, folks. Drink too much, and it will kill you, drink it in too concentrated a form, and it will kill you...) that in mind, banning another risky activity (smoking in an enclosed space) is ridiculous.

Knives are sharp instruments meant to cut things. Some of us use the pointy-end to start those cuts.
they can also be used to hurt people. LOTS of things can be used to hurt people. You can kill a person with a softbound notebook, or a mirror, or any one of thousands of mundane "harmless" objects.

I don't want to be bubble-wrapped into perfect, helpless, safety.
the cowards are winning, and I don't see any way to stop them. :(

What reason did you have for being opposed to tighter gun registration laws?