NationStates Jolt Archive

Many people these days seem to think that America has started on some sort of Neo-Imperialism spree with the invasions of Afghanistan, others think that even before Bush Jr America was showing signs of becoming a neo-imperial power. Let us take this as a hypothetical and say that, yes, America has started a new empire and has added its first new state, the 51st state. What state do you think this 51st state should be? Canada? Mexico? The UK? Australia? Saudi-Israelia?

all if the above

How about my ass? Yes. The 51st state of America is Green Sun's ass-end. Despite the fact we're more than three time larger than the US...

Seriously, USA is not trying to set up the 51st state. That just wouldn't make sense, really. Canada or Mexico maybe will willingly join the Union, but if we declared Iraq or Aghganistan as the 51st state, you know how hard that would be to defend? You'd have to go halfway across the world. There's one or two Latin American countries that actually want to become the 51st state. I think Costa Rica plans to apply as soon as tehy get their government stable...

Anyways, America should focus more on Central America in my opinion. They're closer and easier to deal with. In Iraq, we just need to get the Iraqi government working again and then we can leave them to do their stuff.

I don't think America should keep GWB, but changing to a Liberal president would be just too dramatic too suddenly. A less Conservative president would work, or at least one who didn't have to bribe his way through Yale.

all if the above

Well then vote for all of the above, multiple answers are accepted by the poll...

Who'd want to be a state? Being a territory has many benefits and fewer responsibilities.

Afghanistan or Kyrgyzstan

Seriously, USA is not trying to set up the 51st state.

That's why I said it was a hypothetical...

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I knew that. Just confirming it. Yeah.

Seriously, though, it just wouldn't be sensible to set up a colony in the Middle East. Maybe encourage Middle Eastern nations to join with each other and grow together, making one big nation instead of a bunch of Nebraska-sized fragments intent on killing each other. I blame the British and the French for doing such a bad job in redrawing the Middle East after WWI. They shoulda kept that kid away from the maps and the crayons^^

Taking Canada into the Union would be the worst ... idea ... ever. It'd totally ruin the delicate balance you guys have got set up between liberals and conservatives, and probably lead either to the Dems ruling in perpetuity or the demise of your two-party political system.

Oh, and we'd probably have to be the 51st through 65th states, because you guys would get penis envy and partition all our large, muscular provinces into piddling, wimpy "states," which of course would screw up the Senate beyond belief. Not to mention that then you'd have to deal with all our obnoxious frenchies.

Seriously, you've already got access to all our natural resources, why'd you want to make us a part of the USA? Less is more, dude. We were a colony state until 1867 and we couldn't even alter our own constitution until 1982. Just rule over us like a colonial overlord. We're used to it.

I wouldn't mind to see Mexico and Canada join the US, although not as one state each, but each state and province as one new state in the US.

Taking Canada into the Union would be the worst ... idea ... ever. It'd totally ruin the delicate balance you guys have got set up between liberals and conservatives, and probably lead either to the Dems ruling in perpetuity or the demise of your two-party political system.

Oh, and we'd probably have to be the 51st through 65th states, because you guys would get penis envy and partition all our large, muscular provinces into piddling, wimpy "states," which of course would screw up the Senate beyond belief. Not to mention that then you'd have to deal with all our obnoxious frenchies.

Seriously, you've already got access to all our natural resources, why'd you want to make us a part of the USA? Less is more, dude. We were a colony state until 1867 and we couldn't even alter our own constitution until 1982. Just rule over us like a colonial overlord. We're used to it.
But think of it this way: You can now say what we want you to do to an extent!

Would Canadians like to become Americans?

Would Canadians like to become Americans?
I thought Canada was in America. Along with Greenland, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, etc.

Would Canadians like to become Americans?
Technically they already are...

Well Canadians aren't killing each other like Americans are so maybe we haven't taught them the secret of American street violence. Then they can be TRUE Americans. They already have a nice standard of living and a similar culture so this must be the only thing left.

Seriously, though, it just wouldn't be sensible to set up a colony in the Middle East. Maybe encourage Middle Eastern nations to join with each other and grow together, making one big nation instead of a bunch of Nebraska-sized fragments intent on killing each other. I blame the British and the French for doing such a bad job in redrawing the Middle East after WWI. They shoulda kept that kid away from the maps and the crayons

Well, last time the Arabs tried that it didn't quite work out, did it? Syria and Egypt joined and became a big country (maybe they annexed little other places, I'm not sure). Then they got busy agitating Israel (which was happily agitating back), and then they broke apart again.

What about the Ottomon Empire? Turks are considered Arab aren't they?

What about the Ottomon Empire? Turks are considered Arab aren't they?
No. Turks are turks. The idea of panarabism has been around since the early 20th C. but it's unlikely that they will achieve it any time soon.

but if we declared Iraq or Aghganistan as the 51st state, you know how hard that would be to defend? You'd have to go halfway across the world.

The US held the Phillipines as part of the U.S. commonwealth from 1899 when they threw out the Spanish to 1946 when the Phillipines finally got their independence. That is halfway across the world as well.

Then go back further to the time of the Crusades. There was an Arab empire then that got to Spain and threatned Europe. They were much more advanced (for the time period) then they are now obviously.

Technically they already are...

Actually, flip that around. Technically we're not, but to all intents and purposes the answer is yes. Just don't mention that to Canadians, because they tend to view "American" or "United States" as a swear word.

Then go back further to the time of the Crusades. There was an Arab empire then that got to Spain and threatned Europe. They were much more advanced (for the time period) then they are now obviously.
Yes. Although it was more a union of sultanates than a real single country. It lasted quite a bit, too.

The US held the Phillipines as part of the U.S. commonwealth from 1899 when they threw out the Spanish to 1946 when the Phillipines finally got their independence. That is halfway across the world as well.

Ah yes, let's not forget your little misadventure in the Philippines.

I say, to anyone concerned about neo-imperialism or "the new hegemony," just look at the US's previous imperial efforts, when that sort of thing was in style (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/Kipling.html). In 1914, Great Britain ruled 1/3 of the world's surface. America, the most economically powerful nation at the time, managed to conquer . . . Cuba (which they soon left anyway) and the Philippines. Wow. 'A' for effort, guys. Ruling the world just doesn't come naturally to Americans, I guess.

America, the most economically powerful nation at the time, managed to conquer . . . Cuba (which they soon left anyway) and the Philippines. Wow. 'A' for effort, guys. Ruling the world just doesn't come naturally to Americans, I guess.
They also had the option of annexing all of Mexico (think about it: the isthmus, the entire Gulf, the Yucatan, the gold, silver, titanium, zinc and molybdenum mines) in the mid 19th C.

Their problem was that their government has always been too WASP-y and making citizens of brown, mostly Catholic people who don't speak English has always been against their core beliefs.

I think the US is getting over their own prejudices in this matter, however. Althugh it's still one of the reasons mentioned by some who oppose to make Puerto Rico a state.

America has already been through an imperialistic age, America annexed most of the west, shived off Native American, and forced Hawaii to be a state

If anyone should be the 51st state i say its Puerto Rico!!! Those are my people, my heratige. And if they dont then they should be their own country and annex south florida because I lived there for 14 years and trust me your a minority if you are white or pretty much anything but hispanic or jewish.

I picked Mexico and Canada. Mexico because so many of them emigrate here they might as well be another state, Canada because they just have so much in common with us.

Now that I think about it I should've picked "Other" too so I could include Japan; everyone knows that the Japanese secretly wish they were Americans. ;)

I know this is all theoretical, but for arguements sake I'll take the poll and comments so far at face value:

Saying Canadians are already American is as submoronic and preposterous as saying all Americans are exactly like G.W. Bush and that he's a Nazi to boot. While there are a lot of similarities, the two are not the same. In case you haven't noticed, we have a PARLIMENT, just like all Americans have brains and free will and don't dream of goose-stepping into a bright futuire along with their fearless leader... To extend the analogy further, many people say they feel both staements are dubious, but there are also people who beleive the world to be flat

If Stephen Harper becomes the next PrimeMinister of Canada however, Canada's status as the 51st state may become a fait acompli and render my arguements moot. Mind you, why would the US gov't. want to make Canada the 51st state? The other 50 are enough of a headache already, I'm sure. Besides, no one in the US gov't would want the Quebec Separatist problem, I can assure you of that.

I don't mind it when Canada and Canadians are described as being similar to Americans. Remember that if you follow that logic, Americans can then be described as being similar to Canadians (except we have much better reefer). A full Union of the two, to create an entirely new country called neither Canada nor the USA and with a new constitution and governmental system would be kind of neat, but won't happen any time soon. Americans and Canadians are alike in this respect: both are too proud of their nation to let that happen.

I DO think Peurto Rico could easily be the 51st state. It would only be fair to Peurto Rico to elevate them to the status of a State, equal to the other 50. That or as someone already mentioned, let it alone to be a truly soveriegn country.

Saying Canadians are already American is as submoronic and preposterous as saying all Americans are exactly like G.W. Bush and that he's a Nazi to boot. While there are a lot of similarities, the two are not the same. In case you haven't noticed, we have a PARLIMENT, just like all Americans have brains and free will and don't dream of goose-stepping into a bright futuire along with their fearless leader... To extend the analogy further, many people say they feel both staements are dubious, but there are also people who beleive the world to be flat

Whoa, buddy. I'm not saying Canadians are just Americans with a funny flag and some Quebeckers thrown in. And what's with the Nazi comparaison? Jeez, people are far too willing to throw down the Hitler/Nazi gauntlet in political disussions. However, I am saying that the average American and the average Canadian are like close family: cousins if not brothers. We speak the same language with basically the same accent (your mileage may vary), we shop at the same stores and eat the same food, and we do similar things with our leisure time.

I find it interesting that you bring up Parliament. As a matter of fact, I live in Ottawa and I can see the Peace Tower from the end of my street. But you make the same mistake many Canadians make when they try to distinguish us from our neighbours. "We have free healthcare; we're peacekeepers, not war makers; we believe in gun control; we have a Parliament, not a Congress; we've taken a more liberal stance on marijuana and gay marriage; we've got the CBC [would they still exist if they had to make money the honest way?]."

However, those differences are all political in nature (generally Liberal), and in fact many Canadians are passionately opposed to them. If they wanted to, tomorrow all our provincial legislatures could pass bills to dismantle their state-run healthcare, or maybe Parliament could start the wheels in motion to enact our own version of the Second Amendment. These minor differences really don't mean that much next to the fact that a Canadian can move to the States and feel entirely comfortable and "at home" there, and vice versa.

If Stephen Harper becomes the next PrimeMinister of Canada however, Canada's status as the 51st state may become a fait acompli and render my arguements moot.

Let me guess, another NDP supporter (lol, but we love you anyway). Let's not forget that conservative people usually put more of a premium on patriotism than most. It would have been hard for a man who believed in turning the steering wheel over to Washington to have gotten elected as leader of the Conservative Party.

I DO think Peurto Rico could easily be the 51st state. It would only be fair to Peurto Rico to elevate them to the status of a State, equal to the other 50. That or as someone already mentioned, let it alone to be a truly soveriegn country.

I don't know a whole lot about Puerto Rico, so I'm going to ask an honest question: do Puerto Ricans speak a lot of English or are they still primarily a Spanish island? If it's the latter, admitting that many people to the Union who are unlikely to be assimilated seems to be a bad idea for the US, and PR should probably just declare independence.

It seems like Aus is heading very quickly down that path.

"It seems like Aus is heading very quickly down that path."

Translation: "I don't agree with the Federal Government's policies, but I can't find and defend a cogent argument against them, not can I suggest a real alternative"

"It seems like Aus is heading very quickly down that path."

Translation: "I don't agree with the Federal Government's policies, but I can't find and defend a cogent argument against them, not can I suggest a real alternative"

No, I think it's happening culturally more than politically. I also think it's been happening for 20+ years, a lot longer than the present government has been in power. I don't agree with the policies of the present government, but I don't think they are the reason why we're turning into an outpost of the USA.

I think with president Blair in charge, Britians heading down the road to 3 party poltics, American culture ect. We won't join the states but we'll become like them.

Good point.

I'd blame subsidising arts and entertainment (a bi-partisan policy, it must be noted).

Subsidising arts and entertainment has made the industry complacent, and feather-bedded. No author, playwright, filmmaker, or artist has to produce anything of quality that Australians can enjoy and identify with, they can safely produce rubbish confident that if they can get over the bureaucrat's bar, they've got a paycheck.

Its Work-for-the-Dole, with less work, and LOTS more dole.

In the meantime, our best talent goes where the money is, overseas.

American popular culture, on the otherhand, is more accessable, easier to identify with because they have audiences to which they are accountable.

Good point.

I'd blame subsidising arts and entertainment (a bi-partisan policy, it must be noted).

Subsidising arts and entertainment has made the industry complacent, and feather-bedded. No author, playwright, filmmaker, or artist has to produce anything of quality that Australians can enjoy and identify with, they can safely produce rubbish confident that if they can get over the bureaucrat's bar, they've got a paycheck.

Its Work-for-the-Dole, with less work, and LOTS more dole.

In the meantime, our best talent goes where the money is, overseas.

American popular culture, on the otherhand, is more accessable, easier to identify with because they have audiences to which they are accountable.

Do you agree with the minimum quota of Australian content? Personally, I do.

No, and removing it won't mean that all Australian shows get removed.

Do you really see 7 removing Blue Heelers, or All Saints, for example?

If Australian producers want their shows aired on Australian TV, then the proper thing to do is make great shows, not whinge to Canberra.

Well then vote for all of the above, multiple answers are accepted by the poll...

my bad

No, and removing it won't mean that all Australian shows get removed.

Do you really see 7 removing Blue Heelers, or All Saints, for example?

If Australian producers want their shows aired on Australian TV, then the proper thing to do is make great shows, not whinge to Canberra.

True enough. I really hate seeing/hearing the American ads on the TV. I saw one recently for an Australian film (can't remember which one it was) & it had an American voiceover. It makes me angry. Also listening to kids speaking in American accents, because that's what they hear.

BTW, is Disraeli in reference to Benjamin, Vicky's favourite?

I think it should be Guam.

I think with president Blair in charge, Britians heading down the road to 3 party poltics, American culture ect. We won't join the states but we'll become like them.
But we've always had 3 party politics and the Americans have 2? How does the number of parties affect whether a country is like America? also we actually have a left wing and a right wing party and not two right wing ones. As for president Bliar, he won't be here come the next general election so how Gordon Brown as PM will treat America is anyone's guess, as Chancellor I can't remember him expressing one opinion on foreign policy.

Would Canadians like to become Americans?
HELL NO. Canada would sooner rejoin Britain then join the U.S.
Canadians do not want to be Americans. We don't like you. We're just too polite to outwardly say it to your face. Why? Consider your own ignorance towards the rest of the world, and you'll figure it out.
Americans are feircely patriotic, which gets on everyone else's nerves, by the way, and they're stuck living the "American dream". The difference with the rest of the world? We're awake.
As for the 51st state, it's probably Peurto Rico.

I must say Puerto Rico is the most likely choice. It's already an administrative region of the US, all they'd have to do is proclaim (?) it a state.

Many people these days seem to think that America has started on some sort of Neo-Imperialism spree with the invasions of Afghanistan, others think that even before Bush Jr America was showing signs of becoming a neo-imperial power. Let us take this as a hypothetical and say that, yes, America has started a new empire and has added its first new state, the 51st state. What state do you think this 51st state should be? Canada? Mexico? The UK? Australia? Saudi-Israelia?
Never happen, GI! 50 is our limit!

GramnoniaWhoa, buddy. I'm not saying Canadians are just Americans with a funny flag and some Quebeckers thrown in. And what's with the Nazi comparaison? Jeez, people are far too willing to throw down the Hitler/Nazi gauntlet in political disussions. However, I am saying that the average American and the average Canadian are like close family: cousins if not brothers. We speak the same language with basically the same accent (your mileage may vary), we shop at the same stores and eat the same food, and we do similar things with our leisure time.

Whoa, whoa, you're missing my piont. . Its unfair to call G. W. Bush Hitler like or US policies as Nazi like. I used it as a metaphor to illustrate how it *feels* to many Canadians when some people (not you, per se, just some in this thread and elsewhere) make the equally ridiculous statement that Canada is America in all but name only. I agree that the similarities between us are like those between cousins.

I find it interesting that you bring up Parliament. As a matter of fact, I live in Ottawa and I can see the Peace Tower from the end of my street. But you make the same mistake many Canadians make when they try to distinguish us from our neighbours. "We have free healthcare; we're peacekeepers, not war makers; we believe in gun control; we have a Parliament, not a Congress; we've taken a more liberal stance on marijuana and gay marriage; we've got the CBC [would they still exist if they had to make money the honest way?]."

However, those differences are all political in nature (generally Liberal), and in fact many Canadians are passionately opposed to them. If they wanted to, tomorrow all our provincial legislatures could pass bills to dismantle their state-run healthcare, or maybe Parliament could start the wheels in motion to enact our own version of the Second Amendment. These minor differences really don't mean that much next to the fact that a Canadian can move to the States and feel entirely comfortable and "at home" there, and vice versa.

Yes. And? As for the CBC, people who oppose its gov't funding miss its point entirely: A NATIONAL newscasting service, as opposed to corporate (and if you think stinkers like Conrad Black made their money honestly you're very mistaken)

Let me guess, another NDP supporter (lol, but we love you anyway). Let's not forget that conservative people usually put more of a premium on patriotism than most. It would have been hard for a man who believed in turning the steering wheel over to Washington to have gotten elected as leader of the Conservative Party.

Actually, I support whatever party I think is best for the country at the time, since the very concept of governance through ideology is flawed at the very core. Not that you'll ever seperate the two. Its human nature. I'm an Absurdist, not a Socialist or any other political creed except pisssed off at having to choose between the lesser of X evils. I hate Stephen Harper because he's exactly the type of political goon who demonstrates this. He and his party would seek to remake the entire country in their own image. A very undemocratic one. If he acts like this in Opposition, imagine the disregard for opposing opinions and solutions that he would have as PM. He'd also make Canada a laughing stock with his antics. I think its pretty telling when oldtimers such as Veterans who would otherwise support A Conservative party (THE Conservative Party ceased to exist here) went on public record as not voting for the CA because they strongly beleive Harper and his party have a hidden agenda. These are words from people who put their lives on the line for our freedom, so I never discount their political opinions, no matter if I may disagree with them from time to time.

I don't know a whole lot about Puerto Rico, so I'm going to ask an honest question: do Puerto Ricans speak a lot of English or are they still primarily a Spanish island? If it's the latter, admitting that many people to the Union who are unlikely to be assimilated seems to be a bad idea for the US, and PR should probably just declare independence.

I don't know all that much about Peurto Rico either, except that the US still runs it as a Protectorate...in action if not word. They should piss or get off the pot and let PR decide what they want for themselves, whatever that may be.

Thats a good point New Rheged, Brown's going to be our next PM and noone has any idea what his opinion on the worlds most influential nation is. That cant be good lol

If britain could no longer stay independent and had to join either europe or the USA, id hope that we join the USA. You can say what you like about GWB or imperialism, but for a country that should be unbelievably unwieldy because of size, they're VERY organised, unlike ::spits:: europe. All this referendum stuff recently just proves to me that Europe will never form a USofEurope like Chirac and Schroder want.

God bless America i say

Strongbad-Land: Love the name!

I don't know all that much about Peurto Rico either, except that the US still runs it as a Protectorate...in action if not word. They should piss or get off the pot and let PR decide what they want for themselves, whatever that may be.

Puerto Rico is a US territory like American Samoa and a few other territories. PR prefers it that way anyway, we asked once if they were interested in statehood and they said no.

How about a freely associating state, like the Federated States of Micronesia or the Solomon Islands! That would be so much easier, you get to use the dollar and don't have to pay federal taxes! The only thing is that the US Army can base in your country...

all if the above
exactamente

Many people these days seem to think that America has started on some sort of Neo-Imperialism spree with the invasions of Afghanistan, others think that even before Bush Jr America was showing signs of becoming a neo-imperial power. Let us take this as a hypothetical and say that, yes, America has started a new empire and has added its first new state, the 51st state. What state do you think this 51st state should be? Canada? Mexico? The UK? Australia? Saudi-Israelia?

I don't think any of those countries should have to be dragged into being a state. But I suppose Mexico would be my choice. No one would be complaining about illegal immigrants coming from there anymore, they'd already live in the U.S.

Last I checked there were only 50 states. Well and Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps just wishful thinking on the author of this thread's part.

HELL NO. Canada would sooner rejoin Britain then join the U.S.
Canadians do not want to be Americans. We don't like you. We're just too polite to outwardly say it to your face. Why? Consider your own ignorance towards the rest of the world, and you'll figure it out.
Americans are feircely patriotic, which gets on everyone else's nerves, by the way, and they're stuck living the "American dream". The difference with the rest of the world? We're awake.

To become a political part of the USA does not mean that you would automatically become an "American" ideologically. It's not like you're going to become fat just by getting a US passport.

No one would ask you to change your personality. And that's why the US would never admit Canada or Mexico into the Union, even if they asked.

Never happen, GI! 50 is our limit!
I never knew there was a limit. Unless you think that more is asking kids to remember to many states and capitals.

Yes. And? As for the CBC, people who oppose its gov't funding miss its point entirely: A NATIONAL newscasting service, as opposed to corporate ...

Oh, I don't miss the point, I just say the government is unjustified in spending our money on a TV station that nobody watches.

I hate Stephen Harper because he's exactly the type of political goon who demonstrates this. He and his party would seek to remake the entire country in their own image. A very undemocratic one. If he acts like this in Opposition, imagine the disregard for opposing opinions and solutions that he would have as PM.

Trying to remake the country in one's image is exactly what all the political parties do; it's the entire point of a political party. When someone votes Conservative, he knows in what direction they're going to take the country ("hidden agenda" propaganda notwithstanding), ditto for if he votes Green.

Please specify how Harper acts like "this" in Opposition. I've not seen instances of him trying to suppress Canadian democracy. Which is quite the contrast with the Liberal party oligarchy, for instance. For Chrissakes, the Conservatives haven't even been in power for 12 years, and yet you're accusing them of arrogance and a high-handed governing style? Look how we've been dealt with by the Grits for the past decade!

And if some old coots want to vote Liberal because they think Harper's got a hidden agenda, who cares? They kicked all manner of ass during the war, but that doesn't mean they're any more astute or intelligent than the rest of us.

Oh, I don't miss the point, I just say the government is unjustified in spending our money on a TV station that nobody watches.

Hey, I like the CBC. A lot of people watch it, and you get to watch things that otherwise would just go unseen. TV shouldn't just be popular stuff.

If another 9/11 happens b4 Bush is out of office then the entire Middle East will be occupied.

True enough. I really hate seeing/hearing the American ads on the TV. I saw one recently for an Australian film (can't remember which one it was) & it had an American voiceover. It makes me angry. Also listening to kids speaking in American accents, because that's what they hear.

BTW, is Disraeli in reference to Benjamin, Vicky's favourite?

If the American voiceover was the usual voiceover for film trailers (the one who sounds like he should cut down to 300 packs a day), I'd let it slide. After all, he's THE voiceover guy.

It doesn't matter to me how kids speak, its bad enough that they speak at all, without more stress over how they do so.

Yes, Disraeliland is in reference to Benjamin Disraeli.

I wanted to name my country after a historic conservative, and I figured Churchill, and the Gipper (pause for awe) were taken.

Actually, flip that around. Technically we're not, but to all intents and purposes the answer is yes. Just don't mention that to Canadians, because they tend to view "American" or "United States" as a swear word.

I know this is all theoretical, but for arguements sake I'll take the poll and comments so far at face value:

Saying Canadians are already American is as submoronic and preposterous as saying all Americans are exactly like G.W. Bush and that he's a Nazi to boot.

Last time I looked at a map, Canada was still located on the same North American continent as it always has been. When was it moved, and to where? (And if it hasn't been moved, then you're American, just like all residents of countries in the Americas.)

Iraq is state number 53, following Puerto Rico, which used to follow The Phillipines.

Personally, I say tear down ALL borders, because "borders" of nations is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

That, or the entire world in united under a single flag.

SO, I would full support Canada and America becoming one country, but NOT America having control over Canada. Hopefully Canada could knock some goddamn sense into us rednecks.

Seriously, USA is not trying to set up the 51st state. That just wouldn't make sense, really.

True. If you make a place a state then the people there are entitled to defense of their rights by the American government. America would hate to have to impose personal civil liberties on corporate installations all over the world. How expensive would it have been for the US if Reagan had actually conquered Nicaragua instead of simply imposing a military dictatorship on it? This way we get to exploit their labor and resources, but don't have to defend their rights. Would Bechtel be able to prohibit the drinking of rainwater in any country that enjoyed status as a United State? I don't think so. Better to keep them as unofficial colonies. It keeps them in the same legal limbo as the detainees in Guantanamo.

If another 9/11 happens b4 Bush is out of office then the entire Middle East will be occupied.

I say that there should be a popular movement to grant dual Iraqi-American citizenship to any American who wants it.

Then we'll move there in huge numbers and vote to make it a state. All nice and legal. Peaceful takeover. Then if Middle Easterners have a problem with American policy then they can just vote in a Senator and a few dozen Representatives like any other heavily populated state (this only works if Iraq more than doubles its population in a wave of American immigrants).

I voted other, my post the world, in my opinion and we all have a right to our opinions, the
USA is the most democratic nation in the world despite
whatever problems it has, like all nations none is perfect.

The world should have one democratic world government.

Last I checked there were only 50 states. Well and Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps just wishful thinking on the author of this thread's part.

I've said repeatedly that this is a hypothetical thread on a theoretical question. Wishful thinking? I'm not an American...

Last time I looked at a map, Canada was still located on the same North American continent as it always has been. When was it moved, and to where? (And if it hasn't been moved, then you're American, just like all residents of countries in the Americas.)


Put your pants back on. Don't be so absurdly pendantic. I used America in the sense 99% of the people on the planet use it, as reference to THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I just wanted to point out that 1) its foolish to Canada is a part of the USA, just as 2) its foolish to say Bush is like Hitler and the US gov't is like the Nazi's. I also wanted to point out that when a Canadian hears statement 1, they feel the same way an *American does when they hear statement 2. :rolleyes:

I think some people here need to get reading glasses. (Gives Daistallia 2104 a withering look)

*refers to A Resident of the United States of America...have to make things clear or the semanticly challenged get their panties in a knot.

To become a political part of the USA does not mean that you would automatically become an "American" ideologically. It's not like you're going to become fat just by getting a US passport.

No one would ask you to change your personality. And that's why the US would never admit Canada or Mexico into the Union, even if they asked.

^ ^ ^ ^
What he said.

Gramnonia: Give me a break. The Conservatives bankrupted the country when they were in power before the current LIberal government. There is a reason why the Conseravtives weren't able to win a Fedral election for 12 years, and its name is MUlroney, a cad with his hands in deals far more corrupt than the one demolishing the Liberals right now. Your habit of putting down anyone who disagrees with your conservative outlook is a prime example of the antics the new Canadian Aliiance Party has engaed in before they changed their name, and a tactic they continue to use. Old Coots? You'll be one some day too, and I'll gladly challenge you to a duel with canes, no walkers allowed. Better start taking your metamucil, because I'll be one tough and dirty old man. ;)

^ ^ ^ ^
What he said.

Gramnonia: Give me a break. The Conservatives bankrupted the country when they were in power before the current LIberal government. There is a reason why the Conseravtives weren't able to win a Fedral election for 12 years, and its name is MUlroney, a cad with his hands in deals far more corrupt than the one demolishing the Liberals right now. Your habit of putting down anyone who disagrees with your conservative outlook is a prime example of the antics the new Canadian Aliiance Party has engaed in before they changed their name, and a tactic they continue to use. Old Coots? You'll be one some day too, and I'll gladly challenge you to a duel with canes, no walkers allowed. Better start taking your metamucil, because I'll be one tough and dirty old man. ;)

LOL!!! I look forward to meeting you on the field of battle, sir (also known as the retirement home's cafeteria). Honour must be maintained. And I won't take metamucil, since that could be considered an illegal stimulant. :)

I don't dispute that Mulroney ran up some pretty huge debts, but he was only following the well-worn path of Trudeau, the man truly responsible for our mountainous debt.

Heh. But at least my antics are cheeky and fun, whereas the antics of the Liberal Party are cruel and tragic. Which wouldn't make them antics at all, really. ;)

Many people these days seem to think that America has started on some sort of Neo-Imperialism spree with the invasions of Afghanistan, others think that even before Bush Jr America was showing signs of becoming a neo-imperial power. Let us take this as a hypothetical and say that, yes, America has started a new empire and has added its first new state, the 51st state. What state do you think this 51st state should be? Canada? Mexico? The UK? Australia? Saudi-Israelia?if and I say IF, there is going to be a 51st state, then it would be a territory of the US that votes to start the process of Statehood.

Many people these days seem to think that America has started on some sort of Neo-Imperialism spree with the invasions of Afghanistan, others think that even before Bush Jr America was showing signs of becoming a neo-imperial power. Let us take this as a hypothetical and say that, yes, America has started a new empire and has added its first new state, the 51st state. What state do you think this 51st state should be? Canada? Mexico? The UK? Australia? Saudi-Israelia?

Ha! You are sooo wrong! Truth be known, we have our greatest leagal minds busy at work trying to figure out how we can grant California her independence...like it or not!

Ha! You are sooo wrong! Truth be known, we have our greatest leagal minds busy at work trying to figure out how we can grant California her independence...like it or not!

Why's that? Are you seeking to destroy the US economy?

How about none

How about my ass? Yes. The 51st state of America is Green Sun's ass-end. Despite the fact we're more than three time larger than the US...

Seriously, USA is not trying to set up the 51st state. That just wouldn't make sense, really. Canada or Mexico maybe will willingly join the Union, but if we declared Iraq or Aghganistan as the 51st state, you know how hard that would be to defend? You'd have to go halfway across the world. There's one or two Latin American countries that actually want to become the 51st state. I think Costa Rica plans to apply as soon as tehy get their government stable...

Anyways, America should focus more on Central America in my opinion. They're closer and easier to deal with. In Iraq, we just need to get the Iraqi government working again and then we can leave them to do their stuff.

I don't think America should keep GWB, but changing to a Liberal president would be just too dramatic too suddenly. A less Conservative president would work, or at least one who didn't have to bribe his way through Yale.

Colin Powell is the best guy if you stay republican. Either him or Arnold Schwarzanegger sp?

Watch the movie 'The 51st State', and you'll know the answer.

Any way, according to the Lizard.

Only 45 votes for the UK? I'm shocked.

I believe that The UK should be the 51st state of the USA

The UK, they're already the largest US aircraft carrier.

the netherlands....en the rest :rolleyes:
england is a vassal state

the netherlands....en the rest :rolleyes:
england is a vassal state
Ewngland isn't a country, the United Kingdom is!

The UK, they're already the largest US aircraft carrier.

Go Airstrip One! Long live IngSoc! Long live Big Brother! :p

None of The above.

Ewngland isn't a country, the United Kingdom is!
my mistake,but some welsh,scots and irishs will disagree here,i really meant the U of K

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I knew that. Just confirming it. Yeah.

Seriously, though, it just wouldn't be sensible to set up a colony in the Middle East. Maybe encourage Middle Eastern nations to join with each other and grow together, making one big nation instead of a bunch of Nebraska-sized fragments intent on killing each other. I blame the British and the French for doing such a bad job in redrawing the Middle East after WWI. They shoulda kept that kid away from the maps and the crayons^^
Yeah, I agree with you there. But really even if they did a perfect job of dividing the region, there would still be bloodshed. Its always been that way in the Middle East. Hell, the Palestinians and Israelies have been quarreling for the past 4,000 years for God's sake, except then, the Palestinians were known as the Phillistines. And the Middle East gets its hands on a nuclear weapon, than they'll be both the the cradle of civilization and the grave of civilization.

Columbia. They make better drugs.

Personally, I say tear down ALL borders, because "borders" of nations is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

That, or the entire world in united under a single flag.



Do you realize what you are saying? "tear down all borders, unite the world under a single flag!!" that's completely impossible, because there will always be nationalisms, i'd like to see a japanese saying he's part of the "New world order" rather than being a japanese and forgetting all the successes of his people, or a french saying "Baguettes were the invention of the human not of the former french"....

That cannot be done yet i agree with your point pity the whole world doesn't

Do you realize what you are saying? "tear down all borders, unite the world under a single flag!!" that's completely impossible, because there will always be nationalisms, i'd like to see a japanese saying he's part of the "New world order" rather than being a japanese and forgetting all the successes of his people, or a french saying "Baguettes were the invention of the human not of the former french"....

That cannot be done yet i agree with your point pity the whole world doesn't
Heil sushi,and frankfurt wurst

You do know there's other ways to gain influence and receive respect in international politics besides expansion right?

How about the U.S. doesn't plan on annexing anything anytime soon and that we live in a time where freedom and democracy are what we are pushing the envelope for.

Yo, I love America. Isn't this great or what *sniff-sniff*? God Bless America!!!

They know it GWB dosn't.