NationStates Jolt Archive

Holocaust Survivor Leaving US - Sees What's Coming
By Joey Picador
Justice For None.com
5-27-5

One of our neighbors is moving. I've been in this neighborhood for about six years now, but didn't really know them very well at all - just waves and nods, mostly.

So I heard the moving van pull up this morning. When I got home this evening I happened to spy my neighbor (he's like 85 years old - I don't know exactly, but he's old, talks and moves very slowly) standing on the sidewalk next to the van. I walked over and shook his hand, and we started talking. I asked him where he was moving, and he said, "Back to Germany."

I had been stationed in Germany for two years while in the military, so I lit up, and commented about how beautiful the country was, and inquired if he was going back because he missed it.

"No," he answered me. "I'm going back because I've seen this before." He then commenced to explain that when he was a kid, he watched with his family in fear as Hitler's government committed atrocity after atrocity, and no one was willing to say anything. He said the news refused to question the government, and the ones who did were not in the newspaper business much longer. He said good neighbors, people he had known all his life, turned against his family and other Jews, grabbing on to the hate and superiority "as if they were starved for it" (his words).

He said he was too old to see it happen right in front of his eyes again, and too old to do anything about it, so he was taking his family back to Europe on Thursday where they would be safe from George W. Bush and his neocons. He seemed resolute, but troubled, nonetheless, as if being too young on one end and too old on the other to fight what he saw happening was wearing on him.

I gotta tell you - it was chilling. I let him talk, and the whole time, my gut was churning, like I had mutated butterflies in my stomach. When he was finished, he shook my hand, gripping it really hard, until his knuckles turned white and he was shaking. He looked me in the eyes, hard, and said, "I will pray for your family and your country." He let go of my hand and hobbled away.

I have related this event to you in the hopes it will serve as a cautionary anecdote about the state of our Union, and to illustrate the path we Americans are being led down by a group of fanatics bent on global economic and military dominion. When a man who survived the fruits of fascism decides its time to leave THIS country because he's seeing the same patterns that led to the Holocaust and other Nazi horrors beginning to form here, it is time for us to recognize the underlying evil inherent in the actions of those who claim they work for all Americans, and for all mankind. And it is incumbent upon all Americans, Red and Blue, Republican and Democrat, to stop them.

http://www.justicefornone.com

:rolleyes: More Nazi references.

This sort of blithe copy and pasting without commentary is trolling and spam, just a friendly warning.

...and of course that's a completely credible source http://assets.jolt.co.uk/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

:rolleyes: More Nazi references.

Seems to me that they would hold more relevence when used in this fasion by holocaust survivors, yes? There is something to be said for first hand experience. ;)

we dont need the Jews leaving the neighborhood...(Im not going to stop them either)

what do we need? we need the Jews to leave the Arablands (Midle east)... that can help...a lot.

Oh God. Not another "OMG BUSH NAZI!111!!!1!" threads.

This sort of blithe copy and pasting without commentary is trolling and spam, just a friendly warning.

I took it further. This thread has been reported.

I've heard the same thing from German immigrants. Though they are still here.

In fact, I think one of the reasons Germany and France are so weary of us right now is because they are starting to see a resemblance to their former selves. My concern is that we aren't listening to anyone.

Oh God. Not another "BUSH NAZI OMFG!11!!1!" thread...

Seems to me that they would hold more relevence when used in this fasion by holocaust survivors, yes? There is something to be said for first hand experience. ;)

If I have been in a car accident I do not become an expert in car accidents. But go ahead, worry, live in fear that Nazis are around every corner and the US will turn into the next Nazi Germany. In three years when the new president is sworn in and life is continuing much as it has for the last fifty you can continue to worry about it.

Nazis, Nazis everywhere and not a place to run.

I took it further. This thread has been reported.

Looking at your former comment, I have to wonder if you did it just because you didn't agree with what the thread was saying.

Nazis, Nazis everywhere and not a place to run.

So how's that different from a terrorist threat? Does that mean that terrorists will never attack again as well? The Nazis are still around (and gaining political power again in Germany), and so are terrorists. Is that different or not?

So how's that different from a terrorist threat? Does that mean that terrorists will never attack again as well? The Nazis are still around (and gaining political power again in Germany), and so are terrorists. Is that different or not?

Did I say I lived in fear of terrorists? Of course terrorists will attack again, but I do not fear they will take over.

As to the posting of the whole article, that was largely because I got it from a different site that didn't have a direct link and I wasn't able to track it down on the one given (not that I tried that hard, being at work and all...)

About the Nazi thing, one wonders when in a recent speach Bush talks about forcing people to see his "truth" by repeating the propoganda (his word, not mine) over and over again in a phrase almost exactly remeniscent of a speach given by Goebels the Nazi propoganda chief. (I wish I could remember the link to the video of this...sigh...)

So, yeah....

If I have been in a car accident I do not become an expert in car accidents. But go ahead, worry, live in fear that Nazis are around every corner and the US will turn into the next Nazi Germany. In three years when the new president is sworn in and life is continuing much as it has for the last fifty you can continue to worry about it.

No, but such an experience does tend to make you much more aware of when events that highly increase the chance of an accident happening are occuring. ;)

And, I must disagree that life will continue much as it has. A change in president has very little effect on ongoing longterm social and political trends in the real world. The problem isn't a possible takover by Nazis, but rather socio-political trends that are headed toward similar ends if they are not somehow arrested. For those whose lives aren't effected by such a change because they are already living in that way, life won't seem to change except in little ways... That is so long as they don't run afoul of those trends due to changing circumstances (and then they will wonder how things could have gone so wrong...) For the rest, the change has been and will continue to be significant, and for many, decidedly 'Nazi-like'.

No, but such an experience does tend to make you much more aware of when events that highly increase the chance of an accident happening are occuring. ;)

And, I must disagree that life will continue much as it has. A change in president has very little effect on ongoing longterm social and political trends in the real world. The problem isn't a possible takover by Nazis, but rather socio-political trends that are headed toward similar ends if they are not somehow arrested. For those whose lives aren't effected by such a change because they are already living in that way, life won't seem to change except in little ways... That is so long as they don't run afoul of those trends due to changing circumstances (and then they will wonder how things could have gone so wrong...) For the rest, the change has been and will continue to be significant, and for many, decidedly 'Nazi-like'.

I just don't see it happening. These are not permanent trends, they are swings of the pendulum (spl?). It may swing further, it may swing back now, but it will swing back. That is why I won't worry about it. :)

Oh God. Not another "BUSH NAZI OMFG!11!!1!" thread...If I remember correctly, the last one was locked for being flamebait. It always struck me as funny how a thread comparing Bush to Hitler was flamebait, where one implying that no sensible person would be a conservative was considered harmless. I suppose it all has to do with the implication: explicit threads are locked and implicit ones ignored.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

<snip>He said he was too old to see it happen right in front of his eyes again, and too old to do anything about it, so he was taking his family back to Europe on Thursday where they would be safe from George W. Bush and his neocons.
Ok, I'm confused.

GWB & the Neocons (great name for a band) are Bad because they promote the Zionist cause - i.e, are pro Jew.

But GWB & the Neocons are going to scapegoat/kill the Jews just like Hitler.

Am I missing something? :confused:

If I remember correctly, the last one was locked for being flamebait. It always struck me as funny how a thread comparing Bush to Hitler was flamebait, where one implying that no sensible person would be a conservative was considered harmless. I suppose it all has to do with the implication: explicit threads are locked and implicit ones ignored.

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe
This one deserves to be locked, really. Disagree with his policies, fine. But for God's sake, don't compare him to a Nazi! It's insulting everyone who ever lived through that era.

Ok, I'm confused.

GWB & the Neocons (great name for a band) are Bad because they promote the Zionist cause - i.e, are pro Jew.

But GWB & the Neocons are going to scapegoat/kill the Jews just like Hitler.

Am I missing something? :confused:

Careful not to confuse Judaism (or Jews for that matter) with Zionism. Regardless of how one feels about either, they are entirely different animals. ;)

Also, nobody said Bush was going to start killing Jews. What was being pointed out was a disturbingly similar socio-political trend and general mindset. Hitler had Jews, Gypsies, etc. Neocons/neolibs have...well...they seem to hate a whole plethora of groups on their list as well...

The surface seems different but the mindset is virtually the same or is quickly becoming so.

This one deserves to be locked, really. Disagree with his policies, fine. But for God's sake, don't compare him to a Nazi! It's insulting everyone who ever lived through that era.

Would it not be more insulting to allow that past to be repeated, even if in a milder more sanitized form? Whatever happened to "Never again!"? Or does that only apply to one group of people?

No, "Never again!" belongs to all people and no similar trends should be allowed to flourish in the halls of power regardless of what nation's halls those may be or who it is who walks them.

Eternal vigilance is, after all, the price of liberty, and historically speaking, none have been greater enemies of that liberty than well meaning tyrants in positions of power. ;)

:sniper: Yeah, ok, so um, where's this person's credentials? Does he really have an 85 yr old neighbor who survived the Holocaust and still has the gumption to move his family, seeing is how an 85 yr old still has family besides his wife if he is married at the house.

Bush is not a war fanatic. Neither is the government. Get over it.

I think people who don't like Bush need to take a look at what would have happened if Gore were president...yeah, I'd leave the country if he were president. I'm tired of people being dorks about Bush. :rolleyes:

I think people who don't like Bush need to take a look at what would have happened if Gore were president...yeah, I'd leave the country if he were president. I'm tired of people being dorks about Bush. :rolleyes:

Sigh... Again, this is not even about Bush specifically, but about current socio-political trends within the US in general, and especially within the halls of power in DC (and yes, for the uninformed, DC does house more power groups than just Bush and Co.)

Now lets see, an 85 year old. Thats ALMOST 90, in case you dont realize.
He's something like ten years after his life expectancy, most likely he has SOME medical/psychaitric condition heldover from his experience in the camps (this is assuming that the part about the survivor-neighbor is true) and all of the sudden he decides to fly back to Germany with his family?
I find this rather suspicious.
Anyway, why would Bush go after Jews? We LIKE Jews here. They displace the Mexicans :P
(Alright, that was a bad joke, but I couldnt help it :P)

Godwin's Law!

The Nazis are still around (and gaining political power again in Germany), and so are terrorists. Is that different or not?

I take exception to that. The NPD and DVP in Germany are gaining about as much power as... hmmm, the Greens in America, or maybe the Perot Party.
True, the NPD managed to get a seat or two in a state parlament, but they don't actually get to make and decide policies, not for their state, and especially not on a Federal Basis.
That people voted for them was due to ridiulous new unemployment figures, which hit the East in which most people have seen a communist government only 16 years ago. They were protest votes, not actually intended to hand any kind of power to Nazi parties. And the next election in a different state no one wanted to know about them.
You see, when Nazi parties get votes in any (even the smallest) election, all of Germany hears about it, and there is a big anti-nazi reaction, and next time they lose again.

You see, when Nazi parties get votes in any (even the smallest) election, all of Germany hears about it, and there is a big anti-nazi reaction, and next time they lose again.

That's good then.

:sniper: Yeah, ok, so um, where's this person's credentials? Does he really have an 85 yr old neighbor who survived the Holocaust and still has the gumption to move his family, seeing is how an 85 yr old still has family besides his wife if he is married at the house.

Bush is not a war fanatic. Neither is the government. Get over it.

I think people who don't like Bush need to take a look at what would have happened if Gore were president...yeah, I'd leave the country if he were president. I'm tired of people being dorks about Bush. :rolleyes:

Tell me, what would have happened if Gore was elected? You would not be in America, and...?
He would have done the same things Clinton did before him. The reason America's economy is going well is still because of the strutural reforms (ie unemployment benefits etc) that Clinton did. I can show you with a simple diagram that the reason for a tax cut are ideological. The actual benefit to the economy of such a tax cut are:
a) smaller than the cost of it to the Government
b) only short-term, since you miss out on long-term investment in important areas in which private investment doesn't get involved (eg provision of public goods)
Bush's economic credentials are pretty much non-existant. He is a failed businessman, and thus he is mainly introducing business-friendly policies. And those don't benefit you...(unless you're a large CEO. In that case, vote Bush!)
----------
Had Gore be elected, had the attacks on September 11 have happened? Of course. He would have gone to war in Afghanistan as well. Fair enough, I say, the UN was okay with it and so I'm okay with it.
Had he gone to war against Iraq? No. He wouldn't even have thought about it. And therefore there wouldn't have been any media coverage and you would be just as happy as you are now.
And since we know now that Iraq couldn't do anything to America, WMD or otherwise, that would have been the right decision.
Gore could now count on international relations to help with Iran (the EU wouldn't be suspicious, and Iran wouldn't see it as vital to haves self-defence nukes as soon as possible). Same thing with the DPRK.
---------
As to the topic at hand, I don't think there are particular ethnic groups in the US liable for genocide (there is not enough Middle-Eastern people there).
So if that old man exists, he's probably a little bit paranoid (and the current situation (economically) in Germany isn't great either).
But as soon as the military can get out of Iraq, there are going to be voices in Washington to go to war with someone else. But that's not gonna happen before Bush is out of there. That's gonna be Jeb's job...

This sort of blithe copy and pasting without commentary is trolling and spam, just a friendly warning.
but...he reports, you decide.

No, but such an experience does tend to make you much more aware of when events that highly increase the chance of an accident happening are occuring. ;)

And, I must disagree that life will continue much as it has. A change in president has very little effect on ongoing longterm social and political trends in the real world. The problem isn't a possible takover by Nazis, but rather socio-political trends that are headed toward similar ends if they are not somehow arrested. For those whose lives aren't effected by such a change because they are already living in that way, life won't seem to change except in little ways... That is so long as they don't run afoul of those trends due to changing circumstances (and then they will wonder how things could have gone so wrong...) For the rest, the change has been and will continue to be significant, and for many, decidedly 'Nazi-like'.
social and political trends like the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act or the Real ID Act?

This one deserves to be locked, really. Disagree with his policies, fine. But for God's sake, don't compare him to a Nazi! It's insulting everyone who ever lived through that era.
if you notice, he quotes someone who "lived in that era"

GWB & the Neocons (great name for a band) are Bad because they promote the Zionist cause - i.e, are pro Jew.

But GWB & the Neocons are going to scapegoat/kill the Jews just like Hitler.

1. no they are good for that reason
2. no, hes comparing their authoritarian practices to Hitler.

Now lets see, an 85 year old. Thats ALMOST 90, in case you dont realize.
He's something like ten years after his life expectancy, most likely he has SOME medical/psychaitric condition heldover from his experience in the camps (this is assuming that the part about the survivor-neighbor is true) and all of the sudden he decides to fly back to Germany with his family?
I find this rather suspicious.
Anyway, why would Bush go after Jews? We LIKE Jews here. They displace the Mexicans :P
(Alright, that was a bad joke, but I couldnt help it :P)
the extent of Hitlers practices were not limited to killing the Jews

Tell me, what would have happened if Gore was elected? You would not be in America, and...?
He would have done the same things Clinton did before him. The reason America's economy is going well is still because of the strutural reforms (ie unemployment benefits etc) that Clinton did. I can show you with a simple diagram that the reason for a tax cut are ideological. The actual benefit to the economy of such a tax cut are:
a) smaller than the cost of it to the Government
b) only short-term, since you miss out on long-term investment in important areas in which private investment doesn't get involved (eg provision of public goods)
Bush's economic credentials are pretty much non-existant. He is a failed businessman, and thus he is mainly introducing business-friendly policies. And those don't benefit you...(unless you're a large CEO. In that case, vote Bush!)
----------
Had Gore be elected, had the attacks on September 11 have happened? Of course. He would have gone to war in Afghanistan as well. Fair enough, I say, the UN was okay with it and so I'm okay with it.
Had he gone to war against Iraq? No. He wouldn't even have thought about it. And therefore there wouldn't have been any media coverage and you would be just as happy as you are now.
And since we know now that Iraq couldn't do anything to America, WMD or otherwise, that would have been the right decision.
Gore could now count on international relations to help with Iran (the EU wouldn't be suspicious, and Iran wouldn't see it as vital to haves self-defence nukes as soon as possible). Same thing with the DPRK.
---------
As to the topic at hand, I don't think there are particular ethnic groups in the US liable for genocide (there is not enough Middle-Eastern people there).
So if that old man exists, he's probably a little bit paranoid (and the current situation (economically) in Germany isn't great either).
But as soon as the military can get out of Iraq, there are going to be voices in Washington to go to war with someone else. But that's not gonna happen before Bush is out of there. That's gonna be Jeb's job...
maybe hed do something about Saudi Arabia too.

social and political trends like the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act or the Real ID Act?

Yes. ;)

Oh, and thanks for saving me the trouble of having to state the obvious in response to those other posts like I usually do. :)

Comparing the current political trends to those that preceded the rise of the Nazi party in Germany is completely ridiculous. A comparison could easily be made comparing various American Democratic politicians to Hitler, in that they each appealed to the workers who felt under-appreciated for support by promising a change for the better, when in reality they did not deliver such a change at all - actually, Hitler led his party of middle-class workers in the exact opposite direction. However, just because a radical comparison like that can be made does not mean that it is even remotely true. Democrats are not Nazis, Bush is not Hitler, and American politics are not leading to a movement similar to that of the Nazi party. Get over these acid trip conspiracy theories.

Comparing the current political trends to those that preceded the rise of the Nazi party in Germany is completely ridiculous. A comparison could easily be made comparing various American Democratic politicians to Hitler, in that they each appealed to the workers who felt under-appreciated for support by promising a change for the better, when in reality they did not deliver such a change at all - actually, Hitler led his party of middle-class workers in the exact opposite direction. However, just because a radical comparison like that can be made does not mean that it is even remotely true. Democrats are not Nazis, Bush is not Hitler, and American politics are not leading to a movement similar to that of the Nazi party. Get over these acid trip conspiracy theories.
no one said it would be exactly the same process by which hitler took over. we are just trying to compare certain authoritarian practices of the Bush administration to that of Hitler. they are in fact valid. its not just Bush=bad Hitler=bad Bush=Hitler. i despise that logic, but thats not what were doing. and what conspiracy theories are you talking about?

maybe hed do something about Saudi Arabia too.

What needs to be done about Saudi Arabia? It's an authoritarian regime that is no good for the majority of its people. But that's the people's problem. If things get too bad, there'll be revolution.
More importantly, if the royal family falls, the US Economy is going to take a bad (a very very bad) hit in the groin. Saudi Investors (all of which are connected to, and dependent on, the house of Al Saud) would disappear, and trillions of dollars would go missing out of the US Economy. It's gonna get ugly...
So one could say that the US is a hostage to some degree, and not because of oil. Which is why the Bushes like the Saudis and Bin Ladens (except that one....) so much.
So what could anyone "do about Saudi Arabia"?

the extent of Hitlers practices were not limited to killing the Jews
I never said they were.

"No," he answered me. "I'm going back because I've seen this before." He then commenced to explain that when he was a kid, he watched with his family in fear as Hitler's government committed atrocity after atrocity, and no one was willing to say anything. He said the news refused to question the government, and the ones who did were not in the newspaper business much longer. He said good neighbors, people he had known all his life, turned against his family and other Jews, grabbing on to the hate and superiority "as if they were starved for it" (his words).

It is implied that he (the neighbor) is Jewish.

What needs to be done about Saudi Arabia? It's an authoritarian regime that is no good for the majority of its people. But that's the people's problem. If things get too bad, there'll be revolution.
More importantly, if the royal family falls, the US Economy is going to take a bad (a very very bad) hit in the groin. Saudi Investors (all of which are connected to, and dependent on, the house of Al Saud) would disappear, and trillions of dollars would go missing out of the US Economy. It's gonna get ugly...
So one could say that the US is a hostage to some degree, and not because of oil. Which is why the Bushes like the Saudis and Bin Ladens (except that one....) so much.
So what could anyone "do about Saudi Arabia"?
decrease our oil consumption allowing us to not be dependent on dictatorial govenrments for our oil. only takes about 7 miles per gallon nationwide to do that according to Bobby Kennedy (he gave more exact amount but i forget it)

It is implied that he (the neighbor) is Jewish.

I think it is more to the point that he didn't want his family around when a similar outlook came in to being, not that he felt that Jews were going to be the subject of pogroms.

That said though, what was the quote from that period about the speaker not caring when they came for all sorts of different groups until they finally came for his? (at which point it was too late obviously.)

I never said they were.
Anyway, why would Bush go after Jews?
my point is that you immediatly equate him leaving the country because the current social and political trends reflect that of nazi germany with bush going after jews.

if you notice, he quotes someone who "lived in that era"
Yes. The Holocaust survivor is insulting his contemporaries. Comparing the acts of Hitler to US policy is like comparing hell to purgatory.

social and political trends like the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act or the Real ID Act?
Which in all reality are just extentions of various laws put into place by the War on Drugs. And then there is the fact that technically it's illegal for the government to use SSID# for identification purposes.

The Nazis are still around (and gaining political power again in Germany)

No they're not. It's illegal to be a "Nazi" in Germany, or even sing about being one. Nice free country they have over there...

Comparing the acts of Hitler to US policy is like comparing hell to purgatory.

It should be noted that neither is somewhere that one should wish to be. While, by catholic definition, purgatory is better than hell, neither is somewhere that one who believes in them tries to get to, rather they are both places of suffering to which one is banished in atonement for sin. So comparing US policy to Purgatory (if Nazi policy is to be compared to Hell) doesn't exactly say much for US policy now does it? ;)

How foolish. Doesn't he know that the Europe he knew is dead and has been replaced by Eurabia?

This book tells all. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/083864077X/qid=1117256676/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-8072010-6173403?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

The Fall of Europe. An essay by Ali Sina (http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina50525.htm)

The article shows what all of the European countries are doing for radical Islam. France is used as an example. Remember the 9/11 hijackers came from Germany though....

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=18087

Remember the 9/11 hijackers came from Germany though....

You mean the hijakers who had more than half there members turn up alive and well in other parts of the world after they were accused crashing planes into the towers and pentagon thus immolating themselves? Those hijakers?

(Sorry, I'm getting a bit too tired and irritable at this point...)

No they're not. It's illegal to be a "Nazi" in Germany, or even sing about being one. Nice free country they have over there...

Sounds good to me. Stick all them Nazis in the slam...

As to the posting of the whole article, that was largely because I got it from a different site that didn't have a direct link and I wasn't able to track it down on the one given (not that I tried that hard, being at work and all...)

About the Nazi thing, one wonders when in a recent speach Bush talks about forcing people to see his "truth" by repeating the propoganda (his word, not mine) over and over again in a phrase almost exactly remeniscent of a speach given by Goebels the Nazi propoganda chief. (I wish I could remember the link to the video of this...sigh...)

So, yeah....

It's at the white house website. The speech is here.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050524-3.html

From my own observations I think that the United States is in the "Weimar" stage. We have a government, that I think we can all agree, does not serve its country properly. (Whether it be from the right or the left) Also, the level of "moral degradation" in this country is almost identical to that of the German's Weimar Republic. Growing unrest from the nationalists. We also have an inflation problem.

With that said, most of these issues are not nearly as extreme as in Weimar Germany (especially the inflation), so we can hope that the backlash will not be as harsh. (because, I don't know about you, but I do not want someone who is actually like Hitler comming to power in the United States)

Sounds good to me. Stick all them Nazis in the slam...

How about stick all them Democrats in the slam? Republicans? Greens? Thank you for once again demonstrating the ignorance and mob mentality that a large majority of the posters here have. Some free advice kid: just because they said it on the History Channel doesn't make it true.

I'm curious, how many people here think that imprisoning a rock band solely for their lyrics is something that should happen in a first world "democracy"?

I tell you this.

Anyone who cannot notice several similarities between the state of American politics, and 1930's Germany, are either lying to themselves, or should do some reading about that era.

Think of the actions that we would call "Brainwashing of a nation".
Making the german people believe that the atrocities werent happening, or were in the best interest of the German people.

It can be directly correlated to the general mixture of Christian conservatism, and "with us or against us" mentality that is constantly spewed from Washington these days.

Hitler started a war and used the Jew as scapegoat in the eyes of the German people, giving them a face to their years of frustration.
Bush has given us the names and faces to our fears.
"The Terrorist".
Hes everywhere!
He could be watching you right now!
How conveinient that this terrorist happens to be all over the world, giving this war the whole globe.

In a country where local country ministers demand that anyone who did not support George Bush, were not "good christians", leave his church immediately, its easy to see that this tactic has been played out before.
The tactic of making believe that God is on your side, while you pull off some seriously heinous bullshit.

I'm curious, how many people here think that imprisoning a rock band solely for their lyrics is something that should happen in a first world "democracy"?

I was under the impression you were only fined modestly for such lyrics ?

That said, most western countries value "freedom of speech" lower than "the right to be respected/accepted" - resulting in forbidding people to shout out things like "All [insert members of ethnic goup here] are stinking animals", unless they can demonstrate that every member of said ethnic group for instance has an aversion to soap (the animals part is technically correct, since all humans are animals). And some, like Germany and the USA, wish to avoid the situation where people vote away "democracy" (which is of course possible). Germany does that by forbidding certain extreme parties, the USA by not letting the votes of the people be counted directly.

I was under the impression you were only fined modestly for such lyrics ?


The lead singer for the band Landser got something like 40 months hard time. Even fining is wrong but three plus years in jail is ridiculous.

Would it not be more insulting to allow that past to be repeated, even if in a milder more sanitized form? Whatever happened to "Never again!"? Or does that only apply to one group of people?

No, "Never again!" belongs to all people and no similar trends should be allowed to flourish in the halls of power regardless of what nation's halls those may be or who it is who walks them.

Eternal vigilance is, after all, the price of liberty, and historically speaking, none have been greater enemies of that liberty than well meaning tyrants in positions of power. ;)

So, you are implying that an administration that is against gay marriage and abortion is eventually going to lead to concentration camps? Isnt it possible that some people might not think some things are a good idea without actually hating anybody?

So, you are implying that an administration that is against gay marriage and abortion is eventually going to lead to concentration camps? Isnt it possible that some people might not think some things are a good idea without actually hating anybody?


Once you write discrimination into the Constitution, you make it acceptable to the general public.
That train stops in Naziville.

The lead singer for the band Landser got something like 40 months hard time. Even fining is wrong but three plus years in jail is ridiculous.
No, it's not wrong! He got "forum-banned" for "flame-baiting" if you don't mind the comparison. May he rot in his cell - All nazis should be treated like that. No tolerance towards intolerance.

Freedom of speech is a nice thing - it is, however, limited to the aspect that you can't invoke people to kill others, to play those kind of events down, to falsify history or deny the existance of the holocaust.

IMHO, that's absolutely okay.

we dont need the Jews leaving the neighborhood...(Im not going to stop them either)

what do we need? we need the Jews to leave the Arablands (Midle east)... that can help...a lot.

Help with what? What are you planning to acheive with that sort of deportation?

Which in all reality are just extentions of various laws put into place by the War on Drugs. And then there is the fact that technically it's illegal for the government to use SSID# for identification purposes.

Thank You.

No matter how many times I tell people that this started with the war on drugs and that the patriot acts doesnt really do that much more, no one seems to listen.

So, you are implying that an administration that is against gay marriage and abortion is eventually going to lead to concentration camps? Isnt it possible that some people might not think some things are a good idea without actually hating anybody?

I read this more along the lines "look what happened in Germany back then" and "look which atrocities are already comitted in the name of freedom by the U.S.".

It's not that the nazis took over and installed gas chambers the next day, but they "tested" the German society first and since only a minority objected, they went further.

That is what's similar between 1930's Germany and the U.S.

I'm still amazed that not more U.S. citizens are on the barricades because their rightly owned human and constitutional rights are stripped away day by day and they are cheering it in the name of freedom and democracy...

The lead singer for the band Landser got something like 40 months hard time. Even fining is wrong but three plus years in jail is ridiculous.

After looking this up (and avoiding the mass of neonazi websites :s) it seems the band was not convicted because the texts were racist, but because they called upon people to commit racist crimes. A subtle, but very important difference.

Not being familiar with the actual band I can not judge if this is truly the case though.

I really have no idea how to play this game, will somebody help me. :) It would be much appreciated if somebody would explain what we are supposed to do in these forums

I really have no idea how to play this game, will somebody help me. :) It would be much appreciated if somebody would explain what we are supposed to do in these forums

Discuss things (preferably without spam, flames or trolling). This is the general if you want to RP go to the RP forums :)

Once you write discrimination into the Constitution, you make it acceptable to the general public.
That train stops in Naziville.

1) I believe that the govt should not be involved in any relationship between consenting adults OTHER than to enforce contracts.

2) The general public already believes(going by the many referendums) that marriage is between 1 woman and 1 man.

3) Defining what a particular group is doesnt lead to Naziville. Is it discrimination to allow some people to fly airplanes and others not to based upon whether they have a pilots license or not? How about seniour citizens discounts, isnt that discrimination? What about ladies night at bars? How about the rights of biological parents when it comes to child custody matters, isnt that discrimination by your standards?

I tell you this.

Anyone who cannot notice several similarities between the state of American politics, and 1930's Germany, are either lying to themselves, or should do some reading about that era.

Think of the actions that we would call "Brainwashing of a nation".
Making the german people believe that the atrocities werent happening, or were in the best interest of the German people.

It can be directly correlated to the general mixture of Christian conservatism, and "with us or against us" mentality that is constantly spewed from Washington these days.

Hitler started a war and used the Jew as scapegoat in the eyes of the German people, giving them a face to their years of frustration.
Bush has given us the names and faces to our fears.
"The Terrorist".
Hes everywhere!
He could be watching you right now!
How conveinient that this terrorist happens to be all over the world, giving this war the whole globe.

In a country where local country ministers demand that anyone who did not support George Bush, were not "good christians", leave his church immediately, its easy to see that this tactic has been played out before.
The tactic of making believe that God is on your side, while you pull off some seriously heinous bullshit.

Starting with your last paragraph; I most certainly hope that you feel that the fact there are terrorists claiming that its Allah's will (yes, I said Allah for a reason) to kill the infidel is worse than Bush being a Christian and believing that he is doing the right thing (from a christian point of view) for this country. (Whether it is the right thing or not) I may not agree with, or like, GW Bush (he is too much of a liberal to be called a republican, IMO), but I don't remember him murdering people in the name of religion. In fact, I don't recall him murdering people at all. (and the unavoidable civilian deaths during war does not count as murdering unless you are mentally ill) You seem so willing to hate Bush because of his religion, while you almost ignore the even greater religious threat by the name of Radical Islam.

Note: I feel it important to point out that I respect the religion of Islam and have no problem with the moderates who do not preach hatred for the West. It is the radicals who like to slit our throats that I have a reasonable distaste for. (to put it lightly)

To the rest, as I stated earlier, though we are headed in that direction, we are still closer to 1920's Germany. I have yet to see any real atrocities performed by the Bush administration, though I have seen Radical Muslim Terrorists cut American's (and other countries) people's heads off in the name of Islam. I also noticed that they flew planes into a few of our buildings. And might I add, Radical Islam wants to kill us all. Gays, straights, Bi, men, women, black, brown, white, etc. Also, it would not help if we stopped supporting Israel. If we have learned anything from WWII, its that apeasement does not work. Also, if you look further in history, you would realize that Islam continues to militaristically expand until it is stopped by military force. Plus, Islam still has not gone through a reformation as other religions have, so we are still dealing with a 10th century enemy.

As for descrimination: due to rampant political correctness, it is practically (and in some cases literally) illegal to discriminate in any way. For example, racial profiling. If you needed to stop a bomb from getting on a plane, and you knew it was in a black back-pack, out of these two people, who would you stop and search if you only had time to search one or the other? Choices: an arab man with angry eyes in a robe, wearing a turban, and carrying a copy of the Koran, or a middle aged white woman?

Starting with your last paragraph; I most certainly hope that you feel that the fact there are terrorists claiming that its Allah's will (yes, I said Allah for a reason) to kill the infidel is worse than Bush being a Christian and believing that he is doing the right thing (from a christian point of view) for this country. (Whether it is the right thing or not) I may not agree with, or like, GW Bush (he is too much of a liberal to be called a republican, IMO), but I don't remember him murdering people in the name of religion. In fact, I don't recall him murdering people at all. (and the unavoidable civilian deaths during war does not count as murdering unless you are mentally ill) You seem so willing to hate Bush because of his religion, while you almost ignore the even greater religious threat by the name of Radical Islam.

Note: I feel it important to point out that I respect the religion of Islam and have no problem with the moderates who do not preach hatred for the West. It is the radicals who like to slit our throats that I have a reasonable distaste for. (to put it lightly)

To the rest, as I stated earlier, though we are headed in that direction, we are still closer to 1920's Germany. I have yet to see any real atrocities performed by the Bush administration, though I have seen Radical Muslim Terrorists cut American's (and other countries) people's heads off in the name of Islam. I also noticed that they flew planes into a few of our buildings. And might I add, Radical Islam wants to kill us all. Gays, straights, Bi, men, women, black, brown, white, etc. Also, it would not help if we stopped supporting Israel. If we have learned anything from WWII, its that apeasement does not work. Also, if you look further in history, you would realize that Islam continues to militaristically expand until it is stopped by military force. Plus, Islam still has not gone through a reformation as other religions have, so we are still dealing with a 10th century enemy.

As for descrimination: due to rampant political correctness, it is practically (and in some cases literally) illegal to discriminate in any way. For example, racial profiling. If you needed to stop a bomb from getting on a plane, and you knew it was in a black back-pack, out of these two people, who would you stop and search if you only had time to search one or the other? Choices: an arab man with angry eyes in a robe, wearing a turban, and carrying a copy of the Koran, or a middle aged white woman?
Middle aged white woman. No self respecting terrorist would look so blatant.

Oh, and if its in one of the two bags, you don't have to search both. Just look in one and arrest the other.

I have related this event to you in the hopes it will serve as a cautionary anecdote about the state of our Union, and to illustrate the path we Americans are being led down by a group of fanatics bent on global economic and military dominion. When a man who survived the fruits of fascism decides its time to leave THIS country because he's seeing the same patterns that led to the Holocaust and other Nazi horrors beginning to form here, it is time for us to recognize the underlying evil inherent in the actions of those who claim they work for all Americans, and for all mankind. And it is incumbent upon all Americans, Red and Blue, Republican and Democrat, to stop them.
One old fool does not an entire nation condemn. :rolleyes:

Not being familiar with the actual band I can not judge if this is truly the case though.

From what I've heard their music is mainly about honouring German soldiers in World War Two and anti immigration. Then again I don't know German so I'm probably missing a good deal...

Maybe a German here could translate some lyrics?

From what I've heard their music is mainly about honouring German soldiers in World War Two and anti immigration. Then again I don't know German so I'm probably missing a good deal...

Maybe a German here could translate some lyrics?

Landser does not honor German soldiers, they approve of atrocities and warcrimes, they falsify history and they spread hatred and they actually ask people to commit crimes.
If you knew German you would've picked that up easily. The music isn't even good, the lyrics is something that you'd flush down the toilet: Shit.

I don't know if anyone would volunteer to translate lyrics - I sure will not.

Besides, all fascist material is banned in Germany and there is no way you could (or, for that matter, want) to get your hands on a CD.

In truth, Americans need to become more like paleo-conservatives and classical liberalism. The ideologies that protect the institution of the Constitutional Republic, and the other which was ideology of the framers.

This is the truth:

Neo-con = fascists

Almost all of their aggressive actions are porportional to fascism. The false sense of patriotism, the accusations of dissenters as traitors, the attempt to control the press, and fanning hatred instead of reasoning and rationalism.

Landser does not honor German soldiers

The song Sturmführer is about honouring the singers grandfather who was in the Waffen SS (I've heard the English version).

The music isn't even good

I would have to kind of agree with you, musically they're not the most talented band out there but they do put out some nice songs. Lenker der Schlacten (sp?) and Rock gegen ZOG are awsome songs.

Besides, all fascist material is banned in Germany and there is no way you could (or, for that matter, want) to get your hands on a CD.

I don't know about that, Deaths Head and Rebel Hell both recently released new CDs on Germany's NorthX records. You can be non-PC, it just needs to be somewhat "read between the lines".

we dont need the Jews leaving the neighborhood...(Im not going to stop them either)

what do we need? we need the Jews to leave the Arablands (Midle east)... that can help...a lot.
Leave the Arablands? What a short memory of history, it was the Jews land well before it was the 'Arablands'. A solution is needed in the middle east, but the solution is not to make the jews leave.

Holocaust Survivor Leaving US - Sees What's Coming
By Joey Picador
Justice For None.com
5-27-5

One of our neighbors is moving. I've been in this neighborhood for about six years now, but didn't really know them very well at all - just waves and nods, mostly.

So I heard the moving van pull up this morning. When I got home this evening I happened to spy my neighbor (he's like 85 years old - I don't know exactly, but he's old, talks and moves very slowly) standing on the sidewalk next to the van. I walked over and shook his hand, and we started talking. I asked him where he was moving, and he said, "Back to Germany."

I had been stationed in Germany for two years while in the military, so I lit up, and commented about how beautiful the country was, and inquired if he was going back because he missed it.

"No," he answered me. "I'm going back because I've seen this before." He then commenced to explain that when he was a kid, he watched with his family in fear as Hitler's government committed atrocity after atrocity, and no one was willing to say anything. He said the news refused to question the government, and the ones who did were not in the newspaper business much longer. He said good neighbors, people he had known all his life, turned against his family and other Jews, grabbing on to the hate and superiority "as if they were starved for it" (his words).

He said he was too old to see it happen right in front of his eyes again, and too old to do anything about it, so he was taking his family back to Europe on Thursday where they would be safe from George W. Bush and his neocons. He seemed resolute, but troubled, nonetheless, as if being too young on one end and too old on the other to fight what he saw happening was wearing on him.

I gotta tell you - it was chilling. I let him talk, and the whole time, my gut was churning, like I had mutated butterflies in my stomach. When he was finished, he shook my hand, gripping it really hard, until his knuckles turned white and he was shaking. He looked me in the eyes, hard, and said, "I will pray for your family and your country." He let go of my hand and hobbled away.

I have related this event to you in the hopes it will serve as a cautionary anecdote about the state of our Union, and to illustrate the path we Americans are being led down by a group of fanatics bent on global economic and military dominion. When a man who survived the fruits of fascism decides its time to leave THIS country because he's seeing the same patterns that led to the Holocaust and other Nazi horrors beginning to form here, it is time for us to recognize the underlying evil inherent in the actions of those who claim they work for all Americans, and for all mankind. And it is incumbent upon all Americans, Red and Blue, Republican and Democrat, to stop them.

http://www.justicefornone.com

The GERMAN - soldiers who fought at Warsaw, Dunkirk, Stalingrad, El Alamein, Normandy and Berlin were probably just like the soldiers out in the Gulf today or who fought at Goose Green in the Falklands in 1982 or at Hue during the Vietnam war. They weren't evil monsters like propaganda would have us believe. They were people just like the cousin or brother or father who's out there. They believed they were fighting for their nation, for their country's honor, to safeguard their country against the evil of communism. Goebbels didn't broadcast that the Jews were being gassed in the hundreds of thousands at Auschwitz, Dachau or Treblinka, he said that they were being sent to work camps - camps which had the words 'Work makes you free' at their gates. Hitler, when he spoke to the Reichstag about taking back the demilitarized Rheinland in 1936 and repudiating the Locarno Treaty said he was protecting his country from the Communist threat (France was Russia's 'ally'). The point is, the common soldier only thought he was doing his duty to his God, his nation, his family. And he suffered terribly for it.

We need to open our eyes and see what's going on lest we go the way of Germany 1936.

Maharlikana

The Nazis are still around (and gaining political power again in Germany), and so are terrorists.
Don't forget that the fundamentalist Muslims are spreading everywhere in Europe... especially France.

:rolleyes:

I wouldn't want to be in America right now either. Your constitution is being turned to so much mulch at an increasingly impressive rate. In this way, it seems America is becoming a much more totalitarian country.

However, saying that Bush is trying for military domination of the world is a stupid thing to say. Downright dumb. For two reasons:

1. He has three years left in the government, then he leaves. Why would he conquer what he can never have.

2. He isn't interested in conquering the world, or even the middle east, or even Iraq. He has an idea in his head that he can stabilize the area, for better or for worse (its worse) and if you ask me, it has partially worked. Noticed that things are a little quieter in Israel lately? I wonder if the threat of war from the U.S. kinda changed Saddams mind about giving the Jihadists arms and funds to pay the families of suicide bombers with.

Foreign politics aside, Bush has done far worse things at home. He has built his career on being "The War President", and I think that has distracted people from his other agendas, whatever they may be (rest assured, they involve pulling back civil liberties, because they threaten your freedom :rolleyes: ).

What the issue is about is that America is supposedly set on a path towards a totalitarian government. Whether America is going to become totalitarian, remains to be seen. If it does, it won't be like Nazi Germany, since the Germans as a whole back then didn't mind not being able to vote. A totalitarian America would probably consist of rigged elections as the Republicans have allegedly done in Florida in Bush's first election. The extreme culture of Freedoms (Speech, Mind, Property) is something that could save the US. Rabid Patriotism is what could doom it. In all, a fascist America would more likely be like Mussolini's Italy than Hitler's Germany, because Americans wouldn't put up with a lot of things. Fascism rarely happens over night, it's a process that is hard to discover before it's too late. What the holocaust survivor is saying is that he feels that we are in the process of becoming a fascist state. The word "fascism" means something like "a bundle", meaning a unison of many. Unity is something that features prominently in American political speech. Fascism is also about not tolerating other opinions, since these would break the national unity.
This does not mean that America will become fascist. It just means that America might be set on that path and no one is noticing.

Godwin's Law!

My first thought as well.

I think the real problem here is a serious lack of fear. Not fear of Nazi takeovers (tho I do see some similarities beteween president monkey puppet's need to force his religous right veiws down my throat and hitler's fanatic hatred for those who didn't share his faith and ideals... remember jews weren't the only people he killed) or even fear of terrorists. People need to fear the stuffed-shirt corporate loving bible thumping war mongering government. Our civil rights are eroding daily, and religous reasoning and ideals are creeping their way behind more and more laws and ideas. The seperation of church and state is getting smaller and smaller these days. The last time a church go too much contol the dark ages happened...
food for thought. :mp5: :gundge: :sniper:

"axis of evil" -President Bush


......do i really have to say anything else to that?

The GERMAN - soldiers who fought at Warsaw, Dunkirk, Stalingrad, El Alamein, Normandy and Berlin were probably just like the soldiers out in the Gulf today or who fought at Goose Green in the Falklands in 1982 or at Hue during the Vietnam war. They weren't evil monsters like propaganda would have us believe. They were people just like the cousin or brother or father who's out there. They believed they were fighting for their nation, for their country's honor, to safeguard their country against the evil of communism. Goebbels didn't broadcast that the Jews were being gassed in the hundreds of thousands at Auschwitz, Dachau or Treblinka, he said that they were being sent to work camps - camps which had the words 'Work makes you free' at their gates. Hitler, when he spoke to the Reichstag about taking back the demilitarized Rheinland in 1936 and repudiating the Locarno Treaty said he was protecting his country from the Communist threat (France was Russia's 'ally'). The point is, the common soldier only thought he was doing his duty to his God, his nation, his family. And he suffered terribly for it.

We need to open our eyes and see what's going on lest we go the way of Germany 1936.

Well said and right to the point.

I've heard the same thing from German immigrants. Though they are still here.

In fact, I think one of the reasons Germany and France are so weary of us right now is because they are starting to see a resemblance to their former selves. My concern is that we aren't listening to anyone.

Precisley. We don't tell Americans this to annoy you or to make you angry, we're just afraid you might turn a path we once did and we DO know how much it sucked in the end for everyone involved.

We just hate to the see US go to the dogs.

http://www.hermes-press.com/german_bush_hitler.jpg

No they're not. It's illegal to be a "Nazi" in Germany, or even sing about being one. Nice free country they have over there...

No, being a nazi is NOT illegal over here. It is illegal to instigate or to use hate speech. There are a coupld of "established" nazi parties, namely the NOD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany_%28NPD%29), the DVU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVU) and the Republikaner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republicans_%28Germany%29).

1) I believe that the govt should not be involved in any relationship between consenting adults OTHER than to enforce contracts.

2) The general public already believes(going by the many referendums) that marriage is between 1 woman and 1 man.

3) Defining what a particular group is doesnt lead to Naziville. Is it discrimination to allow some people to fly airplanes and others not to based upon whether they have a pilots license or not? How about seniour citizens discounts, isnt that discrimination? What about ladies night at bars? How about the rights of biological parents when it comes to child custody matters, isnt that discrimination by your standards?


Ok.
You seem to be riding a train yourself.
1. In this I think we agree, and yet, maybe Im just tired, but Im thinking theres some hidden lines im supposed to be reading through in your statement.

2.Since when do you speak for the general public?

3. I see discrimination as any action that takes away from, deprives thereof, or generally disadvantages any religious sect, ethinicity, or lifestyle, as long as the aformentioned are legal.
So, as for the rest of your questions as to what else were discrimination "by my standards", wich frankly was absurd, and made no more sense, and had nothing to do with my post regarding "naziville".

Let me explain it to you like this...

The Nazis, were ultimately a group of fascist swine.
They convinced an entire nation of people, like you and I, that the root of all thier problems were an ethnicity.
Der Juden.
Now, heres the similarity between Bush and Hitler....follow along..
Hitler believed in the superiority of the German culture, blood, and way of life.
Certainly, so does Bush, in regards to the United States.
This in itself, is fairly harmless, and can usually be chalked up to simple patriotism.
However, Hitler used this patriotism in his country, and instilled it into the German people, making it a part of their everyday lives.
You were doing well in school for the Reich..for the Fatherland..and for the Fuhrer....working your feild, going to work..it was just everyday life.

Now Bush isnt goose stepping, or building concentration camps, but heres what he, and the the Neo-Cons ARE doing.

Much like Hitler did with his beliefs, Bush is using his faith to influence the minds of millions.

How?

The Neo Cons have instilled the belief that to disagree with the war, or even Bush in general, means you are not a good christian.

He mas made several references to believing that God himself, wanted him to be president.

In his second inaugural adress, he quotes the sermon on the mount.
(clearly blurring the lines between church and state)

Clearly manipulating the american people, particularly christians, into supporting a war whos inhabitants are mainly Islamic.
In many ways using the Christian mindset into a war against another faith.

No, Bush isnt murdering millions of people, only thousands....and no Im not talking about "insurgents"..im talking about civillian casualties.
But like Hitler, he is inspiring a patriotic fervor in the masses into supporting an injust cause.

after all..

"Youre either with us...or against us."
-George W. Bush.

No, being a nazi is NOT illegal over here. It is illegal to instigate or to use hate speech. There are a coupld of "established" nazi parties, namely the NOD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Democratic_Party_of_Germany_%28NPD%29), the DVU (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVU) and the Republikaner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republicans_%28Germany%29).

They're not actual "nazi" parties. Ones that actually declare themselves nazis, such as the Socialist Reich Party in the 50s and National Socialist Action Front in the late 70s and early 80s, get banned.

Honestly, I live in America, probably have the fewest rights of anyone in America (being a minor), and I don't feel opressed at all, and I have yet to see one link between Hitler's Nazis and Bush. Not one. Taking away human rights? Bullshit. The Patriot act, which I feel is no longer needed, was an act of national security, not of supressing Islam. It was an act of finding Islamic Radicals before they could cause more damage. Seriously, does anyone know anyone who was directly affected by the Patriot Act? I sure as hell don't, and I know many muslims. Taking away gay rights? A joke. Have they ever had rights? Why are they just now asking for rights? I agree, they deserve rights as married couples have, but why should we let them get married? Marriage is a religious act, and should be protected. What of Seperation of Church and state, liberals? Wouldn't modifying marriage, a religious act, be stepping over that boundary? IMO, the government needs to get out of marriage completely. Forcing Christianity on everyone? Bullshit. Complete Bullshit. Ever read the first amendment? You have every right to practice whatever religion you choose. Don't give me this fascist bullshit. Is Bush a good president? Not really. He's decent at best. Is Bush in anyway comparable to a Nazi? No. Comparing him to Hitler is so offensive to those who lived through Hitler's Regime.

Give me a God damn break.

I gotta tell you - it was chilling. I let him talk, and the whole time, my gut was churning, like I had mutated butterflies in my stomach. When he was finished, he shook my hand, gripping it really hard, until his knuckles turned white and he was shaking. He looked me in the eyes, hard, and said, "I will pray for your family and your country." He let go of my hand and hobbled away.

I have related this event to you in the hopes it will serve as a cautionary anecdote about the state of our Union, and to illustrate the path we Americans are being led down by a group of fanatics bent on global economic and military dominion. When a man who survived the fruits of fascism decides its time to leave THIS country because he's seeing the same patterns that led to the Holocaust and other Nazi horrors beginning to form here, it is time for us to recognize the underlying evil inherent in the actions of those who claim they work for all Americans, and for all mankind. And it is incumbent upon all Americans, Red and Blue, Republican and Democrat, to stop them.

http://www.justicefornone.com

Uhh, right. Chilling and gut churning - that you would unquestioningly relay that load of crap to us here. Have you perhaps noticed the difference in our political system? GW Bush will be out in a few years. No telling at all right now who will take his place. Kerry wasn't elected because he was a poor candidate, not because people LOVED BUSH and his policies. Most of us are far more moderate than the current administration, but I won't vote for an extremist from the left either.

The Dems could get my Libertarian, almost always Republican voting, vote by meeting me in the middle.

Back to the point, America is not Hitler's Germany. Old people, as a rule, are stupid.

-Tom Steele

Ok.
You seem to be riding a train yourself.
1. In this I think we agree, and yet, maybe Im just tired, but Im thinking theres some hidden lines im supposed to be reading through in your statement.

No hidden lines.


2.Since when do you speak for the general public?


Never claimed to. What I did point out was that based upon the voting on referendums concerning gay marriage, it is clear the general public isnt for it. I suppose you can argue that looking at just voters isnt representative of the general public, but I think that would just be silly.

Ill deal with point 3 when I sober up enough to read it.

They're not actual "nazi" parties. Ones that actually declare themselves nazis, such as the Socialist Reich Party in the 50s and National Socialist Action Front in the late 70s and early 80s, get banned.

They got banned for a reason you know, as they have openly shown their disdain for democracy and their will to abolish it. This is where the Weimar republic failed.

And those parties above are rampantly nationalitic parties with fascist or authoritarian tendencies AND/ OR support/ attract the neo-anzi movement which is increasingly becoming more organized and violent. The term terrorism comes to mind.

Banning those parties is a decisive part in the war against fascism.

Ok.
You seem to be riding a train yourself.
1. In this I think we agree, and yet, maybe Im just tired, but Im thinking theres some hidden lines im supposed to be reading through in your statement.

2.Since when do you speak for the general public?

3. I see discrimination as any action that takes away from, deprives thereof, or generally disadvantages any religious sect, ethinicity, or lifestyle, as long as the aformentioned are legal.
So, as for the rest of your questions as to what else were discrimination "by my standards", wich frankly was absurd, and made no more sense, and had nothing to do with my post regarding "naziville".

Let me explain it to you like this...

The Nazis, were ultimately a group of fascist swine.
They convinced an entire nation of people, like you and I, that the root of all thier problems were an ethnicity.
Der Juden.
Now, heres the similarity between Bush and Hitler....follow along..
Hitler believed in the superiority of the German culture, blood, and way of life.
Certainly, so does Bush, in regards to the United States.
This in itself, is fairly harmless, and can usually be chalked up to simple patriotism.
However, Hitler used this patriotism in his country, and instilled it into the German people, making it a part of their everyday lives.
You were doing well in school for the Reich..for the Fatherland..and for the Fuhrer....working your feild, going to work..it was just everyday life.

Now Bush isnt goose stepping, or building concentration camps, but heres what he, and the the Neo-Cons ARE doing.

Much like Hitler did with his beliefs, Bush is using his faith to influence the minds of millions.

How?

The Neo Cons have instilled the belief that to disagree with the war, or even Bush in general, means you are not a good christian.

He mas made several references to believing that God himself, wanted him to be president.

In his second inaugural adress, he quotes the sermon on the mount.
(clearly blurring the lines between church and state)

Clearly manipulating the american people, particularly christians, into supporting a war whos inhabitants are mainly Islamic.
In many ways using the Christian mindset into a war against another faith.

No, Bush isnt murdering millions of people, only thousands....and no Im not talking about "insurgents"..im talking about civillian casualties.
But like Hitler, he is inspiring a patriotic fervor in the masses into supporting an injust cause.

after all..

"Youre either with us...or against us."
-George W. Bush.


Just wanted to say...you said all that was going on in my head.
Very well put. I applaud that.

In the UK marriage is not a religious act, it is a civil act. You can get married in a church, but you still need a civil registrar. If you chose a civil wedding (i.e outside of a church), there can be no mention of religion at all.

How about stick all them Democrats in the slam? Republicans? Greens? Thank you for once again demonstrating the ignorance and mob mentality that a large majority of the posters here have. Some free advice kid: just because they said it on the History Channel doesn't make it true.

I'm curious, how many people here think that imprisoning a rock band solely for their lyrics is something that should happen in a first world "democracy"?
i think we can all agree to throw the libertarians in the slam ;)

So, you are implying that an administration that is against gay marriage and abortion is eventually going to lead to concentration camps? Isnt it possible that some people might not think some things are a good idea without actually hating anybody?
when did he say this? the way you make it sound he either
a. said this and makes the assertion based solely on this
or
b. being against gay marriage and abortion immediately excludes you from leading to concentration camps.

No, it's not wrong! He got "forum-banned" for "flame-baiting" if you don't mind the comparison. May he rot in his cell - All nazis should be treated like that. No tolerance towards intolerance.

Freedom of speech is a nice thing - it is, however, limited to the aspect that you can't invoke people to kill others, to play those kind of events down, to falsify history or deny the existance of the holocaust.

IMHO, that's absolutely okay.
honestly, i dont know anything about the story. in the US you can't advocate for the overthrow of the government. thats treason and if two people saw you do it, the electric chair is waiting for you. you can however advocate minimal or no government through peaceful means, voting, etc.

Help with what? What are you planning to acheive with that sort of deportation?
nuclear war?

So, you are implying that an administration that is against gay marriage and abortion is eventually going to lead to concentration camps? Isnt it possible that some people might not think some things are a good idea without actually hating anybody?

We've already got the concentration camps. We don't have millions of people in them, only a few thousand. But we've got 'em.

honestly, i dont know anything about the story. in the US you can't advocate for the overthrow of the government. thats treason and if two people saw you do it, the electric chair is waiting for you. you can however advocate minimal or no government through peaceful means, voting, etc.

I thought it could only be treason in a time of war? Note that having troops in action does not constitute war. Note that war is a legal status for the nation that only congress can declare, and it hasn't.

Honestly, I live in America, probably have the fewest rights of anyone in America (being a minor), and I don't feel opressed at all, and I have yet to see one link between Hitler's Nazis and Bush. Not one.

How about this. A large part of the Bush family fortune came from his grandfather, Prescot Bush, financing the Nazi's. That money financed the political careers of both Georges I and II. I guarantee threre would have been a more recent link if Hitler hadn't lost all of Germany and his life.

Honestly, I live in America, probably have the fewest rights of anyone in America (being a minor), and I don't feel opressed at all, and I have yet to see one link between Hitler's Nazis and Bush. Not one. Taking away human rights? Bullshit. The Patriot act, which I feel is no longer needed, was an act of national security, not of supressing Islam. It was an act of finding Islamic Radicals before they could cause more damage. Seriously, does anyone know anyone who was directly affected by the Patriot Act? I sure as hell don't, and I know many muslims. Taking away gay rights? A joke. Have they ever had rights? Why are they just now asking for rights? I agree, they deserve rights as married couples have, but why should we let them get married? Marriage is a religious act, and should be protected. What of Seperation of Church and state, liberals? Wouldn't modifying marriage, a religious act, be stepping over that boundary? IMO, the government needs to get out of marriage completely. Forcing Christianity on everyone? Bullshit. Complete Bullshit. Ever read the first amendment? You have every right to practice whatever religion you choose. Don't give me this fascist bullshit. Is Bush a good president? Not really. He's decent at best. Is Bush in anyway comparable to a Nazi? No. Comparing him to Hitler is so offensive to those who lived through Hitler's Regime.

Give me a God damn break.
basically sentence for sentence:
1. reread the thread then
2. so Guantanamo Bay is just a mythological place made up by the liberal conspiracy? The Attorney General never openly acknowledged that torture was acceptable?
3. it was also an act of invading privacy, removing rights to attorney, a speedy trial...a trial at all, free speech, and making it so that those pesky warrants are no longer necessary.
4. not really
5. there was actually a good movie about it "Persons of Interest" i believe it was called
6. good for you
7. no, he just tries to stop them from coming into existence
8. so of course they shouldnt? the government should never acknowledge past errors ever!
9. because they were afraid of being linched, dragged behind a car tied by a rope, or being beaten to death.
10. why shouldn't we?
11. marriage is not a religouse act. i can get a consenting woman (or now a male in one state) and go to a court house. i can get a marriage license and bam! im married. where does religion come in? as for protecting marriage... no ones trying to destroy marriage or take away your rights as a married person or make it so that you cant marry people. there is nothing to protect marriage from.
12. its good, conservative. why are you trying to abolish it by equating a government created, recognized and funded institution with religion?
13. its not religious. religion doesnt play any role.
14. no it doesnt, it promotes good families and as a result better households. because of this their is less poverty, less crime, and a better psychological impact on children (overall, but opinion of course)
15. whos said someone was "forcing Christianity on everyone?"
16. for now
17. it's not bull shit. prove its bull shit.
18. correct, he is a particulary bad president
19. you have awfully low standards for your president
20. yes
21. if you notice the original post is about someone who "lived through Hitler's Regime." besides its really comparing the social and political trends to that of pre-genocidal, war, uber fascist, etc. Germany.
22. no

In the UK marriage is not a religious act, it is a civil act. You can get married in a church, but you still need a civil registrar. If you chose a civil wedding (i.e outside of a church), there can be no mention of religion at all.
it isn't in America either. some Americans are just complete idiots because they watched a few to many shitty romantic comedies where they get married in a church. so they immediatly equate church with marriage.

I thought it could only be treason in a time of war? Note that having troops in action does not constitute war. Note that war is a legal status for the nation that only congress can declare, and it hasn't.
Article III
Section. 3.
Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
advocating overthrow of the government is adhering to enemies. in fact, it makes you an enemy.

Article III
Section. 3.
Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
advocating overthrow of the government is adhering to enemies. in fact, it makes you an enemy.
No.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article03/24.html#2

Actual law is a nice thing to have on your side. What you're referring to is the clear and present danger restriction on free speech, in which you can't advocate anything that has produces a clear and present danger (eg, saying to a mob, let's lynch this n****r). You can't be arrested for advocating the overthrow of the government and charged with treason, you can't be arrested for plotting to overthrow the government and be charged with treason, you can be arrested for inciting violence if you advocate the violent overthrow of a nation (which is what most of the agitators got in jail for).

They got banned for a reason you know, as they have openly shown their disdain for democracy and their will to abolish it. This is where the Weimar republic failed.

I would say restricting who you can vote for shows just as much disdain for democracy as these parties allegedly had.

No.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article03/24.html#2

Actual law is a nice thing to have on your side. What you're referring to is the clear and present danger restriction on free speech, in which you can't advocate anything that has produces a clear and present danger (eg, saying to a mob, let's lynch this n****r). You can't be arrested for advocating the overthrow of the government and charged with treason, you can't be arrested for plotting to overthrow the government and be charged with treason, you can be arrested for inciting violence if you advocate the violent overthrow of a nation (which is what most of the agitators got in jail for).
hmmmm... i guess my history teacher was wrong. ill have to consult with my dad (hes a lawyer) on this one.

hmmmm... i guess my history teacher was wrong. ill have to consult with my dad (hes a lawyer) on this one.
The courts are very strict on the definition of treason.

I would say restricting who you can vote for shows just as much disdain for democracy as these parties allegedly had.
but their government said no one can advocate overthrowing the government. thats what those parties did. that seems perfectly justifiable (sp?) to me

Holocaust Survivor Leaving US - Sees What's Coming
By Joey Picador
Justice For None.com
5-27-5

One of our neighbors is moving. I've been in this neighborhood for about six years now, but didn't really know them very well at all - just waves and nods, mostly.

So I heard the moving van pull up this morning. When I got home this evening I happened to spy my neighbor (he's like 85 years old - I don't know exactly, but he's old, talks and moves very slowly) standing on the sidewalk next to the van. I walked over and shook his hand, and we started talking. I asked him where he was moving, and he said, "Back to Germany."

I had been stationed in Germany for two years while in the military, so I lit up, and commented about how beautiful the country was, and inquired if he was going back because he missed it.

"No," he answered me. "I'm going back because I've seen this before." He then commenced to explain that when he was a kid, he watched with his family in fear as Hitler's government committed atrocity after atrocity, and no one was willing to say anything. He said the news refused to question the government, and the ones who did were not in the newspaper business much longer. He said good neighbors, people he had known all his life, turned against his family and other Jews, grabbing on to the hate and superiority "as if they were starved for it" (his words).

He said he was too old to see it happen right in front of his eyes again, and too old to do anything about it, so he was taking his family back to Europe on Thursday where they would be safe from George W. Bush and his neocons. He seemed resolute, but troubled, nonetheless, as if being too young on one end and too old on the other to fight what he saw happening was wearing on him.

I gotta tell you - it was chilling. I let him talk, and the whole time, my gut was churning, like I had mutated butterflies in my stomach. When he was finished, he shook my hand, gripping it really hard, until his knuckles turned white and he was shaking. He looked me in the eyes, hard, and said, "I will pray for your family and your country." He let go of my hand and hobbled away.

I have related this event to you in the hopes it will serve as a cautionary anecdote about the state of our Union, and to illustrate the path we Americans are being led down by a group of fanatics bent on global economic and military dominion. When a man who survived the fruits of fascism decides its time to leave THIS country because he's seeing the same patterns that led to the Holocaust and other Nazi horrors beginning to form here, it is time for us to recognize the underlying evil inherent in the actions of those who claim they work for all Americans, and for all mankind. And it is incumbent upon all Americans, Red and Blue, Republican and Democrat, to stop them.

http://www.justicefornone.com

Oh come on now. I am sure, whatever the crimes of the Bush administration, that it is not comparable to the Nazi regime.

Middle aged white woman. No self respecting terrorist would look so blatant.

Oh, and if its in one of the two bags, you don't have to search both. Just look in one and arrest the other.

It wasn't meant to be a riddle or anything. Sheesh. Lol.

Now I will make a nice and simple scenario. You can only search and arrest one. Not search one and arrest the another.

A white christian, an arab muslim, a Mexican athiest, or an Irish Nun?

And if you don't catch the terrorist, you and your entire family will likely die. Be honest, no politically correct "what your professors would say" answers, what would you really do?

It wasn't meant to be a riddle or anything. Sheesh. Lol.

Now I will make a nice and simple scenario. You can only search and arrest one. Not search one and arrest the another.

A white christian, an arab muslim, a Mexican athiest, or an Irish Nun?

And if you don't catch the terrorist, you and your entire family will likely die. Be honest, no politically correct "what your professors would say" answers, what would you really do?
The white Christian.


Except that you have a false dilemma- millions of arabs who happen to be Muslim fly daily, and trying to bring a bomb on a plane doesn't happen every day, which you are positing to be true.

basically sentence for sentence:
1. reread the thread then I have, thank you. I see no resemblance to Hitler.
2. so Guantanamo Bay is just a mythological place made up by the liberal conspiracy? The Attorney General never openly acknowledged that torture was acceptable? So? They're Islamic Radicals. They're not civilians, as the jews were. And there's no gas chambers, no mass extermination. What should we do with Islamic Radicals, give them a get out of jail free pass?
3. it was also an act of invading privacy, removing rights to attorney, a speedy trial...a trial at all, free speech, and making it so that those pesky warrants are no longer necessary. Again, against Islamic radicals, not ordinary civilians. Don't give me this privacy bullshit.
4. not really
5. there was actually a good movie about it "Persons of Interest" i believe it was called
6. good for you
7. no, he just tries to stop them from coming into existence I don't think I've ever heard Bush say "let's abort all the gays" or, "let's kill all the gays in gas chambers" so, your point is invalid.
8. so of course they shouldnt? the government should never acknowledge past errors ever! Of course we should ackknowledge errors. Of course gays deserve their rights.
9. because they were afraid of being linched, dragged behind a car tied by a rope, or being beaten to death.
10. why shouldn't we?
11. marriage is not a religouse act. i can get a consenting woman (or now a male in one state) and go to a court house. i can get a marriage license and bam! im married. where does religion come in? as for protecting marriage... no ones trying to destroy marriage or take away your rights as a married person or make it so that you cant marry people. there is nothing to protect marriage from.Right. It's not Religious at all. God has no standing in Marriage, seeing as how nearly 70% of people get married in Church. Funny how that works.
12. its good, conservative. why are you trying to abolish it by equating a government created, recognized and funded institution with religion?I'm not a conservative. I'm more moderate than most Republicans. And I in no way want religion to influence our government. Read First amendment.
13. its not religious. religion doesnt play any role.
14. no it doesnt, it promotes good families and as a result better households. because of this their is less poverty, less crime, and a better psychological impact on children (overall, but opinion of course)
15. whos said someone was "forcing Christianity on everyone?" I think YOU need to reread the thread.
16. for now Hmm, we've had the First amendment for quite some time now, don't see it going away any time soon.
17. it's not bull shit. prove its bull shit. Bush isn't fascist. Prove he's a fascist.
18. correct, he is a particulary bad president More or less. He's not great, but he's not horrible.
19. you have awfully low standards for your presidentOf course, Graduating from yale is a low standard.
20. yes No, he's not. Do you see 6 million people of a certain ethnicity dead because of him? No.
21. if you notice the original post is about someone who "lived through Hitler's Regime." besides its really comparing the social and political trends to that of pre-genocidal, war, uber fascist, etc. Germany. There's a BIG difference. We went into Iraq and Afghanistan and instilled democracy, Hitler instilled concentration camps.
22. noBe my guest.

Bold added by me :p

Oh come on now. I am sure, whatever the crimes of the Bush administration, that it is not comparable to the Nazi regime.
but the social and political trends of Nazi Germany during that era are similar to that of the US. they are obviously not equal, but the point remains the same.

but the social and political trends of Nazi Germany during that era are similar to that of the US. they are obviously not equal, but the point remains the same.

Yeah, seeing as how we want to kill all the gays, and the Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews. Exactly alike :rolleyes:

Bold added by me :p
"Radical Islamist" is now a term that can be slandered upon anyone without proof?


Honestly. The Constitution exists for a reason, accused have a right to representation and a trial, none of this wartime detention bull.

we dont need the Jews leaving the neighborhood...(Im not going to stop them either)

what do we need? we need the Jews to leave the Arablands (Midle east)... that can help...a lot.


ummmm, Sieg Heil, Ocean Drive, did you borrow that from Heinrich Himmler or Reinhardt Heydrich?

Yeah, seeing as how we want to kill all the gays, and the Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews. Exactly alike :rolleyes:
unless that was a joke, then you didn't read my post.

hmmmm... i guess my history teacher was wrong. ill have to consult with my dad (hes a lawyer) on this one.

Where's Cat-Tribe when you need him?

Yeah, seeing as how we want to kill all the gays, and the Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews. Exactly alike :rolleyes:

No, he said that the trends were similar.

Germany didn't start out with its Nazi sympathy as "let's kill all the Jews." They thought that they were doing what it would take to make their country strong and safe.

That's what Republican voters are doing.

Germany's leaders were opposed to lots of different groups. Communists, labor unions, Wall Street, etc. They told the voting public that all of these groups belonged under the same heading. Jew.

Republican politicians are doing the same thing. They're opposed to liberals, civil rights activists, drug reform advocates, alternative religions etc. They're telling us that all of these groups go under the same heading. Terrorist. Don't believe me? Why is there a traveling exhibit of the Drug Czar explaining how marijuana smuggling financed 9/11? Why does Ann Coulter have a book called Treason? Why did Bush say "either you're with us, or your with the terrorists?" They are broadening the term terrorist to include anyone to whom they are opposed. And they don't even give you a trial to determine if you are what they say you are.

Groups don't have to be identical to be comprable. Boiling water is comprable to the sun. They're both hot. The sun about 60 times moreso than the boiling water (been a long time since I checked the measurments, don't hold me to the exact numbers there). That's a comparison. I can't compare the heat of the sun to the taste of potato chips. I can compare the tactics and goals of the Bush administration to the Hitler regime. They're both facist phobocracies. There's no way I could compare the Clinton administration to the Hitler regime. Clinton was a hedonistic, peace spreading, statesman who did nothing to subvert our system of government. He did bad stuff, but no matter what degree you exaggerate his behavior to, it never resembles Hitlers. Caligula's perhaps, but not Hitlers.

ummmm, Sieg Heil, Ocean Drive, did you borrow that from Heinrich Himmler or Reinhardt Heydrich?

Actually during the mid 1930s the SS set up centres to prepare Jews for a new life in The Holy Land. Courses on farming in that climate for exanple.

:rolleyes: More Nazi references.

You know, if there's someone who has the right to make Nazi references, it's a Holocaust survivor. This is the kind of person who has *seen* what happened, and who has been at the butt of it. If anyone knows what they're talking about when they speak of the horrors of National socialism, then it's them. The Godwin bit doesn't work here.

I tell you this.

Anyone who cannot notice several similarities between the state of American politics, and 1930's Germany, are either lying to themselves, or should do some reading about that era.

Think of the actions that we would call "Brainwashing of a nation".
Making the german people believe that the atrocities werent happening, or were in the best interest of the German people.

It can be directly correlated to the general mixture of Christian conservatism, and "with us or against us" mentality that is constantly spewed from Washington these days.

Hitler started a war and used the Jew as scapegoat in the eyes of the German people, giving them a face to their years of frustration.
Bush has given us the names and faces to our fears.
"The Terrorist".
Hes everywhere!
He could be watching you right now!
How conveinient that this terrorist happens to be all over the world, giving this war the whole globe.

In a country where local country ministers demand that anyone who did not support George Bush, were not "good christians", leave his church immediately, its easy to see that this tactic has been played out before.
The tactic of making believe that God is on your side, while you pull off some seriously heinous bullshit.

Amen to that! Heinous and criminal.

Well said and right to the point.



Precisley. We don't tell Americans this to annoy you or to make you angry, we're just afraid you might turn a path we once did and we DO know how much it sucked in the end for everyone involved.

We just hate to the see US go to the dogs.

http://www.hermes-press.com/german_bush_hitler.jpg

Amen... I have a bit of a personal stake in it as well... a cousin of mine is close to graduating from sub school somewhere out there and my dad's got classmates who are out there now. Who knows when a grenade will come rolling into their tent...

I've travelled across America twice and I love the landscape, the people, the freedoms that I know in my heart it wants to be faithful to - even the freedom to disagree with each other or the freedom to say what may be repugnant to others (well within bounds). I'd hate to see the nation that for some three hundred years has been a beacon of liberty as bright as the torch shining over New York harbor turn into a bastion of fascism and unilateralist tyranny - and then become a liability that the rest of the world needs to cut out like a cancer (Stalinist USSR anyone?)

Ok.
Clearly manipulating the american people, particularly christians, into supporting a war whos inhabitants are mainly Islamic.
In many ways using the Christian mindset into a war against another faith.

No, Bush isnt murdering millions of people, only thousands....and no Im not talking about "insurgents"..im talking about civillian casualties.
But like Hitler, he is inspiring a patriotic fervor in the masses into supporting an injust cause.

after all..

"Youre either with us...or against us."
-George W. Bush.

That's a great sin and one that's happened before... President William McKinley used his nightly prayers as his 'reason' to the American people to turn the otherwise 'good war' in Cuba (like the 'good war' in Afghanistan - which by the way, I think was justified in the light of the terrible events of 9/11 and Osama Bin Laden's blind hatred of the 'west') into America's first war of foreign colonial conquest when he said it was "America's sacred duty (or something to that effect) to civilize, Christianize and educate the Filipino people". How do you Christianize a nation that has been Catholic for 300 years under Spain, civilize it (with a Krag it turned out) when it had roads, commerce, cities under Spanish rule, Educate it when it had universities a plenty under the Catholic orders, one of which is older then venerable Harvard?

The usage of Christ's name in this war sickens me and I'm willing to bet it sickens Christ as well (Love your neighbor as your self!!)

Actually during the mid 1930s the SS set up centres to prepare Jews for a new life in The Holy Land. Courses on farming in that climate for exanple.

They also had MACHT ARBEIT FREI over their Concentration Camp gates (Work Makes You Free) and they called their Gas Chambers Disinfection Rooms.

They also, documented history, though a favorite author of mine Jan de Hartog turned it into a novel, shipped Jews overseas on rickety tubs to countries like Cuba or Argentina with fake passports. When they arrived, half-seasick, at their destination they were rudely deported - back to Germany.

It's a sick psychological trick. It's giving someone hope and then deliberately destroying it. Even the POWs in Nam said that if there was one thing that helped the few survive it was hope (that's why they were kept in isolation and fed the stuff that Hanoi Jane broadcast and all the negative news that their nation hated them - to break their will. Similar tactics to those being used in certain 'detention areas' now, inasmuch as the prisoner's faith is where he places his hope).

Wake up and smell the Zyklon B.

They also, documented history, though a favorite author of mine Jan de Hartog turned it into a novel, shipped Jews overseas on rickety tubs to countries like Cuba or Argentina with fake passports. When they arrived, half-seasick, at their destination they were rudely deported - back to Germany.

It's a sick psychological trick. It's giving someone hope and then deliberately destroying it. Even the POWs in Nam said that if there was one thing that helped the few survive it was hope (that's why they were kept in isolation and fed the stuff that Hanoi Jane broadcast and all the negative news that their nation hated them - to break their will. Similar tactics to those being used in certain 'detention areas' now, inasmuch as the prisoner's faith is where he places his hope).

Surely theres a difference between what happened to a few hundred Jews (out of a European population of over 9 million) and the treatment of individual POWs. In fact I'm having trouble seeing the similarities.


Wake up and smell the Zyklon B.

Maybe my nose isn't big enough.

The white Christian.


Except that you have a false dilemma- millions of arabs who happen to be Muslim fly daily, and trying to bring a bomb on a plane doesn't happen every day, which you are positing to be true.

*Sigh* you are ignorant. I did not say that all muslims are terrorists. Nor did I say that it happened everyday. You are simply avoiding the question. However, there are a billion Muslims in the world, and if only 1% of them are terrorist extremists, we're looking at 10,000,000. And you would go for the white Christian? Let me tell you something. (And if you want to prove yourself to be an idiot, why don't you call me a racist when you reply) Chistians did not attack us on 9-11; there were no christian terrorists on any of the planes. There were, however, Muslims. In fact, all of the terrorists on 9-11 were Muslims. The entire organization was (is) exclusively Muslim. Plus, it isn't Christians who still send out propoganda that threatens to bring down our civilization and convert or kill the all non-Muslims. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but just about everyone on the terrorist watchlist is Muslim. So why would you search the white christian when there is, almost literally, no chance that it would be anyone non-muslim? It makes no sense and that is why our country is dieing.

The white Christian.


Except that you have a false dilemma- millions of arabs who happen to be Muslim fly daily, and trying to bring a bomb on a plane doesn't happen every day, which you are positing to be true.

*Sigh* you are ignorant. I did not say that all muslims are terrorists. Nor did I say that it happened everyday. You are simply avoiding the question. However, there are a billion Muslims in the world, and if only 1% of them are terrorist extremists, we're looking at 10,000,000. And you would go for the white Christian? Let me tell you something. (And if you want to prove yourself to be an idiot, why don't you call me a racist when you reply) Chistians did not attack us on 9-11; there were no christian terrorists on any of the planes. There were, however, Muslims. In fact, all of the terrorists on 9-11 were Muslims. The entire organization was (is) exclusively Muslim. Plus, it isn't Christians who still send out propoganda that threatens to bring down our civilization and convert or kill the all non-Muslims. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but just about everyone on the terrorist watchlist is Muslim. So why would you search the white christian when there is, almost literally, no chance that it would be anyone non-muslim? It makes no sense and that is why our country is dieing.

*Sigh* you are ignorant. I did not say that all muslims are terrorists. Nor did I say that it happened everyday. You are simply avoiding the question. However, there are a billion Muslims in the world, and if only 1% of them are terrorist extremists, we're looking at 10,000,000. And you would go for the white Christian? Let me tell you something. (And if you want to prove yourself to be an idiot, why don't you call me a racist when you reply) Chistians did not attack us on 9-11; there were no christian terrorists on any of the planes. There were, however, Muslims. In fact, all of the terrorists on 9-11 were Muslims. The entire organization was (is) exclusively Muslim. Plus, it isn't Christians who still send out propoganda that threatens to bring down our civilization and convert or kill the all non-Muslims. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but just about everyone on the terrorist watchlist is Muslim. So why would you search the white christian when there is, almost literally, no chance that it would be anyone non-muslim? It makes no sense and that is why our country is dieing.

Well, wasn't senator Kennedy on the terrorist watchlist?

And Ann Coulter does all those things you said that muslims do. I believe she said outright that we should conquer their lands and forcibly convert them to Christianity. Not that anyone in the history of the world has ever had success with converting an entire population from one monotheistic religion to another.

i think we can all agree to throw the libertarians in the slam ;)

Good luck... We and the Republicans are the ones with all the guns! :sniper:

-Tom Steele
"He who must not be banned"

Well, wasn't senator Kennedy on the terrorist watchlist?

And that is bad because? He's deadly with an automobile.


And Ann Coulter does all those things you said that muslims do. I believe she said outright that we should conquer their lands and forcibly convert them to Christianity. Not that anyone in the history of the world has ever had success with converting an entire population from one monotheistic religion to another.

SOURCE PLEASE!!! Calling :bs (what, there's no BS smiley in this forum?) :eek: :( :confused:

Anyway, please source this inflammatory statement. And please make it clear she wasn't being sarcastic or funny at the time, because I doubt the veracity of your claim!

-Tom Steele
"He who must not be banned."

It's Ann Coulter. Everything I have read of hers was like Mein Kampf. Arrogant, unpleasant and lousily written.

(sorry for the comparison but I have read no other political tract of the like).

1. reread the thread then I have, thank you. I see no resemblance to Hitler.
2. so Guantanamo Bay is just a mythological place made up by the liberal conspiracy? The Attorney General never openly acknowledged that torture was acceptable? So? They're Islamic Radicals. They're not civilians, as the jews were. And there's no gas chambers, no mass extermination. What should we do with Islamic Radicals, give them a get out of jail free pass?
3. it was also an act of invading privacy, removing rights to attorney, a speedy trial...a trial at all, free speech, and making it so that those pesky warrants are no longer necessary. Again, against Islamic radicals, not ordinary civilians. Don't give me this privacy bullshit.
4. not really
5. there was actually a good movie about it "Persons of Interest" i believe it was called
6. good for you
7. no, he just tries to stop them from coming into existence I don't think I've ever heard Bush say "let's abort all the gays" or, "let's kill all the gays in gas chambers" so, your point is invalid.
8. so of course they shouldnt? the government should never acknowledge past errors ever! Of course we should ackknowledge errors. Of course gays deserve their rights.
9. because they were afraid of being linched, dragged behind a car tied by a rope, or being beaten to death.
10. why shouldn't we?
11. marriage is not a religouse act. i can get a consenting woman (or now a male in one state) and go to a court house. i can get a marriage license and bam! im married. where does religion come in? as for protecting marriage... no ones trying to destroy marriage or take away your rights as a married person or make it so that you cant marry people. there is nothing to protect marriage from.Right. It's not Religious at all. God has no standing in Marriage, seeing as how nearly 70% of people get married in Church. Funny how that works.
12. its good, conservative. why are you trying to abolish it by equating a government created, recognized and funded institution with religion?I'm not a conservative. I'm more moderate than most Republicans. And I in no way want religion to influence our government. Read First amendment.
13. its not religious. religion doesnt play any role.
14. no it doesnt, it promotes good families and as a result better households. because of this their is less poverty, less crime, and a better psychological impact on children (overall, but opinion of course)
15. whos said someone was "forcing Christianity on everyone?" I think YOU need to reread the thread.
16. for now Hmm, we've had the First amendment for quite some time now, don't see it going away any time soon.
17. it's not bull shit. prove its bull shit. Bush isn't fascist. Prove he's a fascist.
18. correct, he is a particulary bad president More or less. He's not great, but he's not horrible.
19. you have awfully low standards for your presidentOf course, Graduating from yale is a low standard.
20. yes No, he's not. Do you see 6 million people of a certain ethnicity dead because of him? No.
21. if you notice the original post is about someone who "lived through Hitler's Regime." besides its really comparing the social and political trends to that of pre-genocidal, war, uber fascist, etc. Germany. There's a BIG difference. We went into Iraq and Afghanistan and instilled democracy, Hitler instilled concentration camps.
22. noBe my guest.

1. the social and political trends of America are similar to Germany in that era. numerous people are saying htis
2. we shouldnt torture anyone. im sorry if you feel different. when it was found that we tortured people in Iraq, there was insurgent retaliation. torturing people gives the Islamists anti-american fuel to recruit new terrorists. and they arent all Islamic radicals watch "Person's of Interest" they talk about people who arent even close to Islamists that were jailed and not charged. and also you say so what? they are Islamic fundamentalists but none of these people have been given trials. we just keep them their without any evidence and many times we torture them.
3. im sorry, but the government doesnt need evidence or any reason to believe that you are an Islamic fundamentalist or terrorist. the whole point of these basic freedoms found in the bill of rights is they cant be taken away from anyone just because the government says so. your whole premise seems to be based on the fact that they are terrorists. if they are thought to be terrorists then give them a trial. if someone said you were a murderer or a thief and you were imprisoned without trial for the rest of your life, would you feel that your rights were being taken away unjustly?
7. im talking about gay rights you idiot, not aborting or killing gays.
8. if gays deserve their rights then what the fuck are you talking about?
11. doesnt matter. it is a government institution not a religous one. it doesnt matter where you get married. if someone chooses to be christian and get married in a church that is their option, that doesnt make marriage religous just because you believe thats true. God says no murder. does that mean that murder shouldnt be a crime? is punishment for murder a strictly religous practice?
12. you said marriage is a religous act. under that assumption the separation of church and state which you support would mean that you also support abolishing marriage. as i said, marriage isnt any more religous than not murdering someone or stealing from someone
15. i did and i didn't see it
16. England had an empire for a long time, that went away. being around for a long time doesnt make something immune to change. Germans had free speech for some time and that went away when Hitler came 'round
17. he approved of the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act and the Real ID act to start.
18. in your opinion. as it was in mine. no reason to debate it on this thread so i wont
19. the fact that his family was rich had nothing to do with it im sure.
20. fascist suspension of numerous civil liberties (you know like Hitler)
21. good job, you rebutted an argument i didn't make.
22. already done

Well, wasn't senator Kennedy on the terrorist watchlist?

And Ann Coulter does all those things you said that muslims do. I believe she said outright that we should conquer their lands and forcibly convert them to Christianity. Not that anyone in the history of the world has ever had success with converting an entire population from one monotheistic religion to another.

Lol, well I never said I particularly liked Coulter. Chances are, she was joking anyways. And the only reason that the Muslims were stopped last time they tried to convert/kill the world, is because the West (Europe) stopped them through military strength. Islam has not changed since then, being the only major monotheistic religion to have not gone through a reformation, so the way we stop it needs to be fundimentally the same as it was then. But what you have told me is that you, too, are afraid to answer my question.

And what's this about Senator Kennedy? Lol.