NationStates Jolt Archive

After having a good talk with some friends of mine it would seem to me that the reason we have so many “why does Europe hate America” threads is because we get the exact same feelings back, Americans seem to us (not strictly true of course, I know many nice Americans) rather brash, arrogant, rude sort of folk who don’t care about anything or anyone apart from themselves…rather selfish actually. I am not going to “flame” or insult or what have you because I don’t like that sort of thing.

I have noticed that many Americans use our imperial age as an argument against us, and you question why it was so violent. I believe that the answer to this is that the countries we were not invading fought back, if they had not then we would have not had to be so forceful, I am not saying that this period of time was free of travesty but it was our “golden age”, a time that we will not experience again (innless of course we get into the EU and start running it). And to say that we committed genocide is a little strong; our campaigns were just a little cleaner than “the taming of the west”.

One thing noticeable is that we, the British, are one of the few nations that can make fun of our selves, something other nations can not do. This I conclude must be down to this, when the masks fall away, we know what’s going on, we see ourselves as others do and we are capable of laughing at our faults and then marvelling at our wonders (few and far between these days). We know what you Americans laugh at when you laugh, and secretly we laugh to because although we (I am speaking of not every Briton when I say this of course) love our country and would like no harm to come to her, we know HOW to laugh at ones self.

One thing Europe is rich in is culture, and we are proud of it, America has culture bar be it of a different nature, so I don’t like to use that argument either.
Steeped in history Europe was in all essence the cradle of civilisation as we know it. Although obviously many other nations before carved their empires strong and powerful, adding to the “melting pot”, now we pass the flame on to other nations outside our fine institution so that they may develop. Many Americans may argue that Europe’s nations descend grudgingly to the level of “average nations”, I go willingly, interested in what we may learn from our (and I use this term loosely) “offspring” the western nations.

In the future it would seem apparent to look to the east for up and coming powers, China and India are both growing at an incredible rate in many areas, both economic and political. America still stands fast as a powerful yet some would now say corrupted nation, its fine history somewhat squandered by its more recent actions.
Americans once fought side by side with peoples of all races, colours and nationality.
Thousands of U.S marines died on islands they had never heard of to liberate the globe from the dark powers of fascism. They fought with British troops in France, Burmese in Asia, and many other theatres in the Second World War.

Many a time I have seen an American say “we won the war” I have to say that this belittles everyone else’s sacrifices, if it is to be recorded in history that the only active member against the forces of tyranny was America I ask what did my relations and many like them die for? It was not to be forgotten that much I know.
You may claim that we can not cope with a war. May I remind you of the first global super power? The British Empire, the biggest (at this rate most certainly not the last) empire the world had ever seen.
Learn from others mistakes and not just your own.
Americans may see us as snobbish and so forth, this can be understood. It is an act I sit here with a brier pipe in my mouth in a large wood panelled study, the union jack hanging on my wall and a copy of “the second world” war by sir Winston Churchill on my table, I do this because it enhances the feeling of Britain within me, you may laugh, but not as much as I am. It has always been said that the British are eccentric and crazy, we enjoy it (again I speak on behalf of those I know) a character is a welcome site among our nations bloody history. General Montgomery, a vein man, an arrogant man, rather brash, still he remains one of my heroes because of his sheer audacity and character. Churchill said of him “if those around him don’t like him, then the Germans wont like him!” this is another fine example of our humour, even in war we find a good laugh. After all, 2000 years of near on constant war and a few away matches with our Gallic friends have put us in good shape. Our eccentricities are common through the darkest times of world history, lord lovat was piped across Pegasus Bridge under German gunfire whilst brandishing an elephant gun and he lived to 89. Without our humorous anecdotes the world would seem a lot less more fun. At this point I reminisce of a little anecdote from the Suez Canal.
An aging British ship was sent to bowl Johnny foreigner over for six, in response the U.S sent the entire 6th fleet to stop this single ship from committing any actions of hostility towards Egypt. As the ships of the 6th fleet came in to view the little ship built up a bit of steam and sped off, the ships off the U.S. navy could not quite catch up to the little ship and were quite astounded by its speed. At this point an observer said “you will never catch her, she hasn’t even got her second kettle boiling”.

If the countries of Europe were to align then their power as one large “super-nation” may even rival Americas, it seems thought that this may not happen and if it does I will not live to see it, being diagnosed recently. It was Churchill’s main post war ambition to see a united Europe, split we are like the tribes of the first nation, but together we can give anyone a good kicking, and even if we lose we will still walk arm in arm singing whatever old tune that comes to mind.

Rant over. Sorry and all that.

Nice rant, Edmond ;)

I like the way you support the European Union (so far, I didn't know that Churchill favoured the idea as well), it's a rare thing to hear from Britain. I profit from the freedom this Union is giving to it's members, I fled unemployment from Germany to Ireland. However, I don't care if it will kick anybody or not... not even America
;)

I generally don't have many problems with Americans. The one thing I don't like about them is their self-centeredness. Understandable, as the rest of the world is far away, but still.... ignorance pared with arrogance is a bad combination.

Awesome. Well done. :)

[QUOTE=E Blackadder]Steeped in history Europe was in all essence the cradle of civilisation, now we pass the flame on to other nations outside our fine institution so that they may develop. Many Americans may argue that Europe’s nations descend grudgingly to the level of “average nations”, I go willingly, interested in what we may learn from our (and I use this term loosely) “offspring” the western nations.

[QUOTE]

You cannot be possibly be serious can you? The cradle of civilization? What ever happened to the empires that gave Europe any ounce of technology. Rome was the first true superpower. 1/4 of the worlds population lived and died under Roman rule. It controlled most of Europe and near the end of its existance conquered northern Africa.

But there where empires before even Rome. Sumeria, Babylon, Assyria etc. All these empires where far more massive and power than the British empire ever was. Their lack of technology did not make them weaker. European nations could only have existed after the barbarians sacked Rome. If it was not for Rome your precious British Empire would have never come to pass.

Not only that but the Indus Civilization was extremely adanvced for its time. China had gun-powder and steam technology in the BCE time peroid. To say Europe is the Cradle of Civilization is false. By the time your British Empire came about China as been an Empire for 4,000 years.

:) well thanks chaps. i didnt think that this thread would go down very well with anyone.i admit the kicking bit was a bit cack handed and i hope you enjoy ireland as much as many of my freinds do.

[QUOTE=E Blackadder]Steeped in history Europe was in all essence the cradle of civilisation, now we pass the flame on to other nations outside our fine institution so that they may develop. Many Americans may argue that Europe’s nations descend grudgingly to the level of “average nations”, I go willingly, interested in what we may learn from our (and I use this term loosely) “offspring” the western nations.

[QUOTE]

You cannot be possibly be serious can you? The cradle of civilization? What ever happened to the empires that gave Europe any ounce of technology. Rome was the first true superpower. 1/4 of the worlds population lived and died under Roman rule. It controlled most of Europe and near the end of its existance conquered northern Africa.

But there where empires before even Rome. Sumeria, Babylon, Assyria etc. All these empires where far more massive and power than the British empire ever was. Their lack of technology did not make them weaker. European nations could only have existed after the barbarians sacked Rome. If it was not for Rome your precious British Empire would have never come to pass.

Not only that but the Indus Civilization was extremely adanvced for its time. China had gun-powder and steam technology in the BCE time peroid. To say Europe is the Cradle of Civilization is false. By the time your British Empire came about China as been an Empire for 4,000 years.


last time i checked rome was in europe. and i also ask what is todays biggest super power? america. and who's nations founded it? europe's. Not only that i am fully aware of china's acomplishments.Although i beg to differ on the steam powered part. And it is not my "preciouse empire".

Britains empire covered MOST of africa, the far east, the whole of china, India, Canada, Australia, and at its hight, A lott of America. Are you a fool or wasting my time?. I do not live in the past, i learn from it. The British empire is clearly known to be the biggest empire to have been in that era.Rome had no whare near as much land or resources, even in comparison.
Edit: learn to quote

Hmmm indeed it is. But in this instanace I was referring to Europe in the nations everyone thinks of when Europe comes to mind France, Germany etc. Nothern Europe actually. But still does not change the fact the Europe is not the cradle of civilization.

Hmmm indeed it is. But in this instanace I was referring to Europe in the nations everyone thinks of when Europe comes to mind France, Germany etc. Nothern Europe actually. But still does not change the fact the Europe is not the cradle of civilization.

Ah but when i wrote i meant Europe as in the continent..italy included.
to say it is the cradle of civilisation was indeed extreme and upon looking back i beleive that i should have chose different words.However most of the things i see around me were not possible without the advances of European nations(rome included). So my worthy adversary i shall edit my post.

I do not dispute the fact the European nations have made many things possible. Heck I am planning on either moving to Europe or back to Japan. Just pointed out it was not the Cradle of Civilization.

Hmmm indeed it is. But in this instanace I was referring to Europe in the nations everyone thinks of when Europe comes to mind France, Germany etc. Nothern Europe actually. But still does not change the fact the Europe is not the cradle of civilization.
Where do you live? Italy, Spain and Greece are as much a part of Europe as France, Germany and Britain.

I do not dispute the fact the European nations have made many things possible. Heck I am planning on either moving to Europe or back to Japan. Just pointed out it was not the Cradle of Civilization.

And i thank you for that and apologies.Japan has many things to offer in this century, good luck.

Lol, good rant...

I disagree with that only british can laough out of ther country... we do it to!!! Slovenia that is, since we were oppressed most of the our history we had to survive somehow... humor allways helps... and now that we were free for a little over 10 years, we went into the EU, we just cant govern ourselfs I guess :)

Just kidding, although I know EU brings a lot of good things, it is doing some bad things to the local economy here...

Ow... and europe isn't cradle of civilistion, first recognised civilisation is Mesopotamia (is it called that in English?).

Greece is traditionally referred to as the cradle of civilisation and Greece was, and still is, a part of Europe. Roman civilisation was mainly build upon the greek foundation. By saying that Greece was the cradle of civilisation, we do not mean to imply that Greece was the first civilisation. Rather, that Greece laid the foundations to civilisation as we know it, through political and philosophic systems.

Lol, good rant...

I disagree with that only british can laough out of ther country... we do it to!!! Slovenia that is, since we were oppressed most of the our history we had to survive somehow... humor allways helps... and now that we were free for a little over 10 years, we went into the EU, we just cant govern ourselfs I guess :)

Just kidding, although I know EU brings a lot of good things, it is doing some bad things to the local economy here...

Ow... and europe isn't cradle of civilistion, first recognised civilisation is Mesopotamia (is it called that in English?).

yes messopatmia(my spelling is terrible though).

O.K Forget the cradle of civilisation part :D . Think of it as the primary school.

I find your post very interesting and somewhat true. I am an american, 4rth generation portuguese actually. It is true that we are somewhat self-centric but thats because most americans don't generally have to deal with others that much. Also most of these negitive sterotypes about the united states tend to stem from the south and trust me they don't represent all of us. Not to say that all of the southern US is bad but there are some that represent us badly. I am from New England (yes this does prove your point that Europe started us) and we a highly educated here. In fact New England has more Post Secondary education centers (i.e. colleges) than anyother region per square Kilometer. Yes we may be curropt( i can't spell right now leave me alone!) and a bit arrogant and we need to change it. Thats the reason why all empires fall, they get arrogant. Not to say we're a empire but we are indeed a super-power and isn't that the modern day equivalent? I have many problems with my country now that the christians covervatives are starting to take over (damn south) and I've even thought about moving away. But we do have a few redeming qualities, I doubt you can just throw all americans into a bunch either. I know this is a rant (americans can have rants too) all I got to say is that if you ever meet a well educated american (try a new englander) you won't find anywhere and more well balanced and fair discussion.

Thank you for reading this incredualous rant along with my arrogant positions on my people.

actually, the British Empire was the largest in terms of land mass, owning just over 1/4 of the whole planet. By population though, it was probably the romans.

I find your post very interesting and somewhat true. I am an american, 4rth generation portuguese actually. It is true that we are somewhat self-centric but thats because most americans don't generally have to deal with others that much. Also most of these negitive sterotypes about the united states tend to stem from the south and trust me they don't represent all of us. Not to say that all of the southern US is bad but there are some that represent us badly. I am from New England (yes this does prove your point that Europe started us) and we a highly educated here. In fact New England has more Post Secondary education centers (i.e. colleges) than anyother region per square Kilometer. Yes we may be curropt( i can't spell right now leave me alone!) and a bit arrogant and we need to change it. Thats the reason why all empires fall, they get arrogant. Not to say we're a empire but we are indeed a super-power and isn't that the modern day equivalent? I have many problems with my country now that the christians covervatives are starting to take over (damn south) and I've even thought about moving away. But we do have a few redeming qualities, I doubt you can just throw all americans into a bunch either. I know this is a rant (americans can have rants too) all I got to say is that if you ever meet a well educated american (try a new englander) you won't find anywhere and more well balanced and fair discussion.

Thank you for reading this incredualous rant along with my arrogant positions on my people.


glad to have read it. i dont like stereotypes myself and i have visited your region and found it a very nice area.and yes all empires gat arrogant and collapse. I understand that i am talking to an educated person.

I understand we are arrogant but I've met people from many different countries and I must say that the French are the most arrogant people in the world. Not to sterotype and not to insult the french its just that every frenchman I meet they tend to think of their culture the absolute best in the world and they do tend to look down on you. I know this is not true with all of the french and their culture is actually pretty interesting but not to the point where they are supperior to everyone. Anyway just pointing out that we aren't the only arrogant people. Reason why empires fall is because of hubris. clear and simple hubris.

I understand we are arrogant but I've met people from many different countries and I must say that the French are the most arrogant people in the world. Not to sterotype and not to insult the french its just that every frenchman I meet they tend to think of their culture the absolute best in the world and they do tend to look down on you. I know this is not true with all of the french and their culture is actually pretty interesting but not to the point where they are supperior to everyone. Anyway just pointing out that we aren't the only arrogant people. Reason why empires fall is because of hubris. clear and simple hubris.


ah yes the french...i think we are due for an away match with them soon

Pride cometh before the fall.

As with many empires its pride and arrogance will lead to its down fall. It will over excert and then collapse from the strain.

Pride cometh before the fall.

As with many empires its pride and arrogance will lead to its down fall. It will over excert and then collapse from the strain.

Such as britain, rome and so many more.

it seems silly to say you dont like europeans or americans or japanese, you probably havent met enough of any of them to judge. what you dislike is their governments or a few loudmouths who stand out.

if you dropped into a small town bar anywhere in america, (YOU being someone from another country) the likelihood is that if you are pleasant, you wont have to pay for any drinks. (if youre an asshole they might bury the body so far out in the wilderness that it will never be found)

i expect its the same in any other country. people are people, governments suck.

Questioner : "What do you think of western civilization?"

Gandhi: "I think that would be a good idea."

Thats the reason why all empires fall, they get arrogant. Not to say we're a empire but we are indeed a super-power and isn't that the modern day equivalent?


I would say that you do have an empire, just not in the traditional form. A friend of mine, a student of history, once said that "The Romans were the Yanks of the Ancient World". There's some truth in that.
America has stopped conquering or annexing land, it has turned to leave military in the countries in question, forming very close aliances, making economies dependant on its own. Just a different way to go about it, and it does have the advantage that the USA is in no way concerned about whatever happens to that country. No need to take care of them in any way, no responsibilities. And they don't have any say in your nation's government, either.

Good Point that the US has created or helped create nations that was dependant upon us, espeacially with Latin America. But We stopped doing that since the 1970's we have realised that if we create or support a toltarian regime it will just come back in our faces. Case and point Iran. We still support bad regimes however, but you do too. Saudia Arabia hmm? sound familiar last time I checked the EU does bussiness with that country. Its a simply fact of international politics. If it was up to me we would sever ties with all these countries and start supporting democractic rebillions within them. But then we would be called evil by upsetting a countries natural process. Its a very slipperly slope. if we get involved with that country one way or the other it just creates a negative atmosphere. But we cannot just ignore them and say that they don't exist because that doesn't do anything for any of us. Example: CUBA. US foriegn policy is somewhat pyscotic: We speakout and invade "bad" countries on one hand while helping them come to power on the other. But we are trying to change. But remember we are the only super-power left, is that good? only time will tell. We cannot be isolitionist, that would just be waste. We could be doing better things with our power and I hope we do but not everything we do is bad. (also one more point we do feed other countries and if I had some statistics I would give them to you but I am a tribute to american apathy and I don't feel like google-ing it right now.)

I have noticed that many Americans use our imperial age as an argument against us, and you question why it was so violent. I believe that the answer to this is that the countries we were not invading fought back, if they had not then we would have not had to be so forceful, I am not saying that this period of time was free of travesty but it was our “golden age”, a time that we will not experience again (innless of course we get into the EU and start running it). And to say that we committed genocide is a little strong; our campaigns were just a little cleaner than “the taming of the west”.

In some ways a very good point. In this age of rampant anti imperialism, revisionist history and pro socialist intelluctals, the words "genocide" and "British Empire" seem to go hand in hand but if observed from a purely objective, unemotional view of history it is quite easy to see that the word "genocidal" is a huge hyperbole. Indeed in this rush to criticise imperialism, many of the good aspects of that particular policy (and there are many, for all parties concerned) are forgotten, stampeded over in a rush of emotional hype. Much of what the European empires achieved in countries like India (India being the best and biggest example), Australia, Canada and New Zealand is still in evidence today. Lets take India for example: would India be the world's biggest (and possibly one of the least corrupt) democracies today were it not for the judicial and burecratic basics that the British cemented into place? Would it be a growing industrial powerhouse without the massive investments that the British made in transport infrastructure, industrialisation of key cities and the cultivation of port trade? It is highly unlikey if we consider the state of India prior to British dominion i.e. a bunch of squabbling princedoms ran on ancient and inefficient taxation systems? I would say probably not.

One thing noticeable is that we, the British, are one of the few nations that can make fun of our selves, something other nations can not do. This I conclude must be down to this, when the masks fall away, we know what’s going on, we see ourselves as others do and we are capable of laughing at our faults and then marvelling at our wonders (few and far between these days). We know what you Americans laugh at when you laugh, and secretly we laugh to because although we (I am speaking of not every Briton when I say this of course) love our country and would like no harm to come to her, we know HOW to laugh at ones self.

Another good point made which is why the British produce some of the world's best comedy. Blackadder and Mr. Bean for example are shown in many nations around the world as was Monty Python's Flying Circus. Red Dwarf is particularly popular in America. British comedies tend to portray things as they really are (with a certain amount of artistic licence), especially in comparison to American comedies: take Friends for example where all the characters are extraordinarily good looking people to whom nothing very bad ever happens and who are generally nice people who you like. What sort of take of life is that - a purely idealistic one that makes no real impact because it is little more than a dream world. British comedy however is not afraid to try and make its audience see a gritter and grimer truth.


One thing Europe is rich in is culture, and we are proud of it, America has culture bar be it of a different nature, so I don’t like to use that argument either.
Steeped in history Europe was in all essence the cradle of civilisation as we know it. Although obviously many other nations before carved their empires strong and powerful, adding to the “melting pot”, now we pass the flame on to other nations outside our fine institution so that they may develop. Many Americans may argue that Europe’s nations descend grudgingly to the level of “average nations”, I go willingly, interested in what we may learn from our (and I use this term loosely) “offspring” the western nations.


I think this is also a good point, although you should alter it to the "cradle of modern civilisation" - Europeans are responsible for a great deal of world history from 1500 onwards but they cannot be said to be the font of all civilisation.
To be honest, the idea of European nations being 'average' is frankly laughable, even when compared to America. Take British democracy - in my humble opinion, British democracy works far better than American democracy - it is more open to question and much more focused on political issues rather than religious or moral ones.


In the future it would seem apparent to look to the east for up and coming powers, China and India are both growing at an incredible rate in many areas, both economic and political. America still stands fast as a powerful yet some would now say corrupted nation, its fine history somewhat squandered by its more recent actions.
Americans once fought side by side with peoples of all races, colours and nationality.
Thousands of U.S marines died on islands they had never heard of to liberate the globe from the dark powers of fascism. They fought with British troops in France, Burmese in Asia, and many other theatres in the Second World War.
Many a time I have seen an American say “we won the war” I have to say that this belittles everyone else’s sacrifices, if it is to be recorded in history that the only active member against the forces of tyranny was America I ask what did my relations and many like them die for? It was not to be forgotten that much I know.


It quite frankly annoys me when you hear Americans use the comment "If it weren't for us, you would be speaking German right now". Personally I am more willing to give that accolade to the brave men of the RAF who obliterated German air superiority despite being desperately outnumbered. And let us not forget the efforts of the Red Army who probably did far much more damage to the German war efforts than America and Britain combined. Americans did die for European liberty and they are honoured and revered in the hearts and minds of Europe for it. But just as many, if not more, Europeans died for that ideal too.


You may claim that we can not cope with a war. May I remind you of the first global super power? The British Empire, the biggest (at this rate most certainly not the last) empire the world had ever seen.
Learn from others mistakes and not just your own.
Americans may see us as snobbish and so forth, this can be understood. It is an act I sit here with a brier pipe in my mouth in a large wood panelled study, the union jack hanging on my wall and a copy of “the second world” war by sir Winston Churchill on my table, I do this because it enhances the feeling of Britain within me, you may laugh, but not as much as I am. It has always been said that the British are eccentric and crazy, we enjoy it (again I speak on behalf of those I know) a character is a welcome site among our nations bloody history. General Montgomery, a vein man, an arrogant man, rather brash, still he remains one of my heroes because of his sheer audacity and character. Churchill said of him “if those around him don’t like him, then the Germans wont like him!” this is another fine example of our humour, even in war we find a good laugh. After all, 2000 years of near on constant war and a few away matches with our Gallic friends have put us in good shape. Our eccentricities are common through the darkest times of world history, lord lovat was piped across Pegasus Bridge under German gunfire whilst brandishing an elephant gun and he lived to 89. Without our humorous anecdotes the world would seem a lot less more fun. At this point I reminisce of a little anecdote from the Suez Canal.
An aging British ship was sent to bowl Johnny foreigner over for six, in response the U.S sent the entire 6th fleet to stop this single ship from committing any actions of hostility towards Egypt. As the ships of the 6th fleet came in to view the little ship built up a bit of steam and sped off, the ships off the U.S. navy could not quite catch up to the little ship and were quite astounded by its speed. At this point an observer said “you will never catch her, she hasn’t even got her second kettle boiling”.


Well the European nations have fought more wars over the last 1000 years than I have had hot dinners so to accuse them of being unable to cope with war is frankly absurd. A more likely thesis is that Europe is sick to the back teeth of war and I for one cannot blame Europe on that front. The one good thing about the EU is that is has been able to prevent another European war.

You, E Blackadder, are a bit like me: a gentle, educated patriot who likes his Union Jack and the history of his country - I myself am currently reading Churchill's History of English Speaking Peoples,a good book if slightly Whiggish in its approach to history. I agree with your summary of Montegomery and British characters - when you consider alot of British history, there are indeed interesting eccentricites. The Charge of the Light Brigade is one of my favourites - the men were revered as heroes but yet the fact remains; THEY CHARGED THE WRONGS GUNS! Possibly one of the most monumental cock ups in military history.

Unfortunately in these increasinly politically correct times, it seems that even gentel patriotism is interpretated as Nazi like nationalism and so is rampantly persecuted in the media and by the government.


If the countries of Europe were to align then their power as one large “super-nation” may even rival Americas, it seems thought that this may not happen and if it does I will not live to see it, being diagnosed recently. It was Churchill’s main post war ambition to see a united Europe, split we are like the tribes of the first nation, but together we can give anyone a good kicking, and even if we lose we will still walk arm in arm singing whatever old tune that comes to mind.


Alas here our opinions depart - I dislike the idea of a united Europe beyond defensive and economic pacts. I find the judicial and legislative union in the EU intollerable.


Rant over. Sorry and all that.

Don't be sorry, my dear fellow, one of the most enjoyable, balanced and well written threads that I have read in a long time. Even I, a most quarrelsome wretch, was able to agree with most of it!

I don't say that Europe is blameless, but I think regarding scale it cannot compare to the US.

Yes, you are the only super-power left, and truth be told, I have a bad feeling about that. Not because I consider the USA a bad nation, or I had ever considered the totalitarian regime of sovjet Russia any good. But I believe in balance, I believe in control to some extend.
At the moment, there seems to be no balance, noone seems to be officially allowed to so much as critisise the United States any more. The US seem like the biggest bully in the playground who just lost his dearest enemy. He doesn't really know how to handle the situation, who to pick on now, and he is disinclined to listen to the smaller children.
Please don't get me wrong, I don't wants to have the cold war and the arm race back, far from it. But I think that a nation as big as the United States in a situation like this needs somebody above, somebody independend preferably, to judge and to check it if the need arises.

I don't say that Europe is blameless, but I think regarding scale it cannot compare to the US.

Yes, you are the only super-power left, and truth be told, I have a bad feeling about that. Not because I consider the USA a bad nation, or I had ever considered the totalitarian regime of sovjet Russia any good. But I believe in balance, I believe in control to some extend.
At the moment, there seems to be no balance, noone seems to be officially allowed to so much as critisise the United States any more. The US seem like the biggest bully in the playground who just lost his dearest enemy. He doesn't really know how to handle the situation, who to pick on now, and he is disinclined to listen to the smaller children.
Please don't get me wrong, I don't wants to have the cold war and the arm race back, far from it. But I think that a nation as big as the United States in a situation like this needs somebody above, somebody independend preferably, to judge and to check it if the need arises.

The US is criticized everyday around the world in the media and by governments, hell it is criticized on this forum on a regular basis. I just looked at an Amnesty International report, quite offcial, that soundly criticizes the US. So in what way are people not allowed to criticize the US? How? Where are the laws barring it? Are you now living in fear because ou criticized the US? Are you waiting for the secret police to coming knocking on your door?

Isn't what leads to all civilizations downfall is the idea of complacently(i can't spell LOL). Read the Dune series and it clearly states this. I don't mean to lean on a fictional book to prove my point but its just easier (damn apathy!) Anyway your argument that the US is a bully is clearly flawed in the sense that a bully nation would malcously attack and annex other nations. We could if we wanted too but we would have to destroy the entire world or at least the best parts. If the US wanted too we could dominate the would with ease but we don't... we don't because most americans think its wrong to do that. Most americans when they see a bomb we dropped killed one innocent person they shiver and demand a better guidence system so we hit only the "bad guys". Yeah I guess you can say our goals are a bit misplaced and that our government does not puts it power to the proper use but not a bully. Because if we were you would be spelling COLOR without the U and center with the E and R in the right place!!! LOL just kidding

Hey I am not saying we're all good, hell conservative repbulicans run the US government right now and thats simply not good, but to say that we are bad is too far. Just like saying that back in the UK's glory days of imperialism was all bad. As it was earlier posted there were some good aspects of it so look a little closer before you call us bullies will ya? and please take this post as lightly as it was made.

The US is criticized everyday around the world in the media and by governments, hell it is criticized on this forum on a regular basis. I just looked at an Amnesty International report, quite offcial, that soundly criticizes the US. So in what way are people not allowed to criticize the US? How? Where are the laws barring it? Are you now living in fear because ou criticized the US? Are you waiting for the secret police to coming knocking on your door?

You'll notice that I said "officially". I am in no way and official representative of my country, I'm just a private person. But in my home country, two ministers were forced to take their leave for voicing doubts about the current leadership of the US, on request of the US ambassador.

You'll notice that I said "officially". I am in no way and official representative of my country, I'm just a private person. But in my home country, two ministers were forced to take their leave for voicing doubts about the current leadership of the US, on request of the US ambassador.

Yes, I noticed "officially" which is why I included the reference to Amnesty International and the media. Heck dude, US government officials criticize the US all the time. Major media people around the world do it all the time.
Where ya from? What did the minsters say?

That sucks, overthrow your government and throw off the evil chains of opression then! Also I know that my current governmetn sucks but we are going to change that in 08' if we don't I am moving to portugal or canada Ireland is good too and Britain maybe. Your blaming my entire country on a leader who barley won the last election (I think he stole it and there is some evidence to support it but thats for another post) also BUSH isn't that popular here either. So he, or someone acting for him, presured your gov to fire two ministers? well you see the word Presure? If he asked your country to fire them and your country did it fine! not my fault your government is weak (not to insult and please don't take it as insulting) if you don't like it as I said before overthrow your gov and cut off all ties with the US. That simply.

Isn't what leads to all civilizations downfall is the idea of complacently(i can't spell LOL). Read the Dune series and it clearly states this. I don't mean to lean on a fictional book to prove my point but its just easier (damn apathy!) Anyway your argument that the US is a bully is clearly flawed in the sense that a bully nation would malcously attack and annex other nations. We could if we wanted too but we would have to destroy the entire world or at least the best parts. If the US wanted too we could dominate the would with ease but we don't... we don't because most americans think its wrong to do that. Most americans when they see a bomb we dropped killed one innocent person they shiver and demand a better guidence system so we hit only the "bad guys". Yeah I guess you can say our goals are a bit misplaced and that our government does not puts it power to the proper use but not a bully. Because if we were you would be spelling COLOR without the U and center with the E and R in the right place!!! LOL just kidding

Hey I am not saying we're all good, hell conservative repbulicans run the US government right now and thats simply not good, but to say that we are bad is too far. Just like saying that back in the UK's glory days of imperialism was all bad. As it was earlier posted there were some good aspects of it so look a little closer before you call us bullies will ya? and please take this post as lightly as it was made.

I didn't call you a bully, I compared you to one ;)

As for annexing, I already explained that that seems to be a bit outdated, considering US (and Europe's) politics today. As for attacking... erm, sorry to mention it, Iraq?

I didn't say you are were bad guys! It's just that ever since Bush got elected, I sometimes find myself thinking "Ok, so they are the world police. Good thing to have one. But... whose orders are they following?"

Imagine me as a small country, and I mean a really, really small country, faced by a huge big powerful country. And the big country says "We're friends" and I think, ok, sounds good. And the big country shakes hands with other countries as well, nice isn't it. And then one of the other countries stands up and says to the big country "Hey, friend, I don't think going to war is a good idea" and suddenly the big country bares its teeth and has a go at the little country who stood up.
Now, I'm standing beside tht thinking, friends only as long as you agree with what we do and say and as long as you do what we say? Scary....

THAT is purely subjective, I don't want to insult anybody here. It's just my impression, that's all.

No worries, I have nothing against Europe or Europeans... but from what I understand...

After having a good talk with some friends of mine it would seem to me that the reason we have so many “why does Europe hate America” threads is because we get the exact same feelings back, Americans seem to us (not strictly true of course, I know many nice Americans) rather brash, arrogant, rude sort of folk who don’t care about anything or anyone apart from themselves…rather selfish actually. I am not going to “flame” or insult or what have you because I don’t like that sort of thing.the same type of descriptions have been placed on French, German, and even some Brits... but I consider that an outside view of another culture. Americans tend to be plain spoken and blunt, so to alot, it can be seen as rude.

I have noticed that many Americans use our imperial age as an argument against us, and you question why it was so violent. I believe that the answer to this is that the countries we were not invading fought back, if they had not then we would have not had to be so forceful, I am not saying that this period of time was free of travesty but it was our “golden age”, a time that we will not experience again (innless of course we get into the EU and start running it). And to say that we committed genocide is a little strong; our campaigns were just a little cleaner than “the taming of the west”.same why alot of Europeans go on about America's love for Violence with an aire that such things have always been beneath them. and the bolded attitude is an example. Not an attack, just an observation.
One thing noticeable is that we, the British, are one of the few nations that can make fun of our selves, something other nations can not do. This I conclude must be down to this, when the masks fall away, we know what’s going on, we see ourselves as others do and we are capable of laughing at our faults and then marvelling at our wonders (few and far between these days). We know what you Americans laugh at when you laugh, and secretly we laugh to because although we (I am speaking of not every Briton when I say this of course) love our country and would like no harm to come to her, we know HOW to laugh at ones self. We also make fun of ourselves. a trait we share. the problem is, Not everyone sees this as a good thing (Laughing at yourselves).

One thing Europe is rich in is culture, and we are proud of it, America has culture bar be it of a different nature, so I don’t like to use that argument either. agreed, every country has their own culture.
Steeped in history Europe was in all essence the cradle of civilisation as we know it. Although obviously many other nations before carved their empires strong and powerful, adding to the “melting pot”, now we pass the flame on to other nations outside our fine institution so that they may develop. Many Americans may argue that Europe’s nations descend grudgingly to the level of “average nations”, I go willingly, interested in what we may learn from our (and I use this term loosely) “offspring” the western nations. really, Asia seems to have a history of Civilization before they encountered 'Westerners'. another point (one that makes Europes attitude seem pompous) is the bolded claim. While you (and alot of other Europeans I met on the boards) may take the term lightly, others (on these boards) take the term seriously... some have the attitude that America has to "listen" to Europe because Europe "seeded" America.

In the future it would seem apparent to look to the east for up and coming powers, China and India are both growing at an incredible rate in many areas, both economic and political. America still stands fast as a powerful yet some would now say corrupted nation, its fine history somewhat squandered by its more recent actions. Americans once fought side by side with peoples of all races, colours and nationality.
Thousands of U.S marines died on islands they had never heard of to liberate the globe from the dark powers of fascism. They fought with British troops in France, Burmese in Asia, and many other theatres in the Second World War.

Many a time I have seen an American say “we won the war” I have to say that this belittles everyone else’s sacrifices, if it is to be recorded in history that the only active member against the forces of tyranny was America I ask what did my relations and many like them die for? It was not to be forgotten that much I know.at the same time, alot of folks take America for granted. "Help us but we won't owe you anthing for that help." "Feed us, but we won't pay for it." "Shore up our economy now, but we won't help you when you are attacked." America's Grain belt feeds a vast majority of people, we send money and aid to alot of countries and we also get kicked at by those countries. when we react, it's "oh look at America bulling that poor third world country." anyone can get sick of it.

You may claim that we can not cope with a war. May I remind you of the first global super power? The British Empire, the biggest (at this rate most certainly not the last) empire the world had ever seen.
Learn from others mistakes and not just your own.
Americans may see us as snobbish and so forth, this can be understood. It is an act I sit here with a brier pipe in my mouth in a large wood panelled study, the union jack hanging on my wall and a copy of “the second world” war by sir Winston Churchill on my table, I do this because it enhances the feeling of Britain within me, you may laugh, but not as much as I am. It has always been said that the British are eccentric and crazy, we enjoy it (again I speak on behalf of those I know) a character is a welcome site among our nations bloody history. General Montgomery, a vein man, an arrogant man, rather brash, still he remains one of my heroes because of his sheer audacity and character. Churchill said of him “if those around him don’t like him, then the Germans wont like him!” this is another fine example of our humour, even in war we find a good laugh. After all, 2000 years of near on constant war and a few away matches with our Gallic friends have put us in good shape. Our eccentricities are common through the darkest times of world history, lord lovat was piped across Pegasus Bridge under German gunfire whilst brandishing an elephant gun and he lived to 89. Without our humorous anecdotes the world would seem a lot less more fun. At this point I reminisce of a little anecdote from the Suez Canal.
An aging British ship was sent to bowl Johnny foreigner over for six, in response the U.S sent the entire 6th fleet to stop this single ship from committing any actions of hostility towards Egypt. As the ships of the 6th fleet came in to view the little ship built up a bit of steam and sped off, the ships off the U.S. navy could not quite catch up to the little ship and were quite astounded by its speed. At this point an observer said “you will never catch her, she hasn’t even got her second kettle boiling”.pride for one's country is great... but if an American tried to expound like that, he/she would be pelted with "Nationalism" or "arrogance" is that fair?

If the countries of Europe were to align then their power as one large “super-nation” may even rival Americas, it seems thought that this may not happen and if it does I will not live to see it, being diagnosed recently. It was Churchill’s main post war ambition to see a united Europe, split we are like the tribes of the first nation, but together we can give anyone a good kicking, and even if we lose we will still walk arm in arm singing whatever old tune that comes to mind. while such cooperation would be grand. it depends on who does the kicking. If America did it, yeah you could sing any old tune that comes to mind. but that might not be the case if the kicking was done by someone else.

Rant over. Sorry and all that. No worries. Hope I didn't offend.

That sucks, overthrow your government and throw off the evil chains of opression then! Also I know that my current governmetn sucks but we are going to change that in 08' if we don't I am moving to portugal or canada Ireland is good too and Britain maybe. Your blaming my entire country on a leader who barley won the last election (I think he stole it and there is some evidence to support it but thats for another post) also BUSH isn't that popular here either. So he, or someone acting for him, presured your gov to fire two ministers? well you see the word Presure? If he asked your country to fire them and your country did it fine! not my fault your government is weak (not to insult and please don't take it as insulting) if you don't like it as I said before overthrow your gov and cut off all ties with the US. That simply.

I didn't insult your country, I was talking about the "official" side of it, which would be your government. I generally don't have any problems with the inhabitants of your country, or any country for that matter, just with government behaviour and actions.

My government was desperately trying to keep up good relations with yours, see my post above. I can understand why they did it, too.

Yes, I noticed "officially" which is why I included the reference to Amnesty International and the media. Heck dude, US government officials criticize the US all the time. Major media people around the world do it all the time.
Where ya from? What did the minsters say?

Germany. One of the ministers compared Bush's "patriot act" to Hitler's "Gleichschaltung". Truth be told, there are some striking similarities. The other one I can't exactly remember, but I'll see if I find it on google.

that sucks too, current administration I have no faith in it. it is time for change in my country. Don't you find it odd that this thread was started about UK and now its US ahh I love our self-centricity. Anyway this is my last post. please look only to my first post being that was a the only good one. We do need to change but you guys need change too in fact maybe we should all invade eachother and make a new country called WilliamMckinleyia? or well we all have problems and we should fix them but my point was your taking too narrow a view and as I said before our foriegn policy suchs. But it as I said before your damned if you do and damned if you don't with our current situation, change IS NEEDED! espeically for those poor vaticans ruled by the ruthless dicator Benedict!

LOL
Enjoy my rants because they are history and history means everything or nothing? ahh whatever enjoy!

If you want to get down the the bottom of the wars, Canada won 'em. Canada won Normandy, Canada won the Netherlands, Canada won Italy ... why are we left out? We have spunk too, you know. We feed more people than America - I mean, we feed America! (Except for the beef thing, they won't eat our beefs.) If you really want to know, most Canadians you meet will say they dislike America, but never have met an actual American they disliked. As for Britain, sigh, the bliss, the humour, O! why can't America make movies like they do?

And leave the Pope out of it! Where did THAT come from?

Germany. One of the ministers compared Bush's "patriot act" to Hitler's "Gleichschaltung". Truth be told, there are some striking similarities. The other one I can't exactly remember, but I'll see if I find it on google.

That's what I thought, I could remember two ministers making those comments and going down because of it. I would chalk that up to economics. Money makes the world go round and money is what makes governments do just about everything they do. Germany and the US need good trade relations, ministers comparing the Pres of the US to the Nazis don't help trade relations, get rid of two ministers.
I know you know that, just felt the need to write it.

That's what I thought, I could remember two ministers making those comments and going down because of it. I would chalk that up to economics. Money makes the world go round and money is what makes governments do just about everything they do. Germany and the US need good trade relations, ministers comparing the Pres of the US to the Nazis don't help trade relations, get rid of two ministers.
I know you know that, just felt the need to write it.

Sure I do... as I said, I don't have any problems with Americans.

Then again, Berlusconi made a statement about the German EU representative in Bruxelles, offering him a role of a Nazi officer in a movie. Didn't see HIM take his hat either...
:(

Sure I do... as I said, I don't have any problems with Americans.

Then again, Berlusconi made a statement about the German EU representative in Bruxelles, offering him a role of a Nazi officer in a movie. Didn't see HIM take his hat either...
:(

Really? I had not heard that at all. If that were true then I would say he should be given walking papers. Personally I find Nazi references, all Nazi references sad and tiring. They show a real lack of imagination and they also show a real lack of debate ability on the part of the user.

Hmm, I don't like you! You're bad you. . .you . . .NAZI!!! heh ehe, really showed him with that Nazi crack!


Of course the phrase "debate ability" is no shining example on my part.

actually, the British Empire was the largest in terms of land mass, owning just over 1/4 of the whole planet. By population though, it was probably the romans.

Hardly. The British Empire at its height had about four times as many people as there were in the entire world during the time of the Roman Empire.

Hardly. The British Empire at its height had about four times as many people as there were in the entire world during the time of the Roman Empire.

Doing a comparison of those two times. With the current population and the known world at the time. Rome was simply vast. It had conquered most of its enemies and had reached the end of its long life then collapsed.

Following the period of the Dark Ages and Crusades (3rd was lead by Britian). We have the formation of the British Empire. Now then it did conquer most of the known world and continued to grow. As the centuries went on it expanded far to quickly. Look at China it took centuries to get where it millennia to reach its full height of power. The british empire did it far to quickly.

Rome also took its time in conquering and expanding. More than a full millennia of solid roman rule. But compared to other empires the British Empire was short lived. Though it achieved great things it ultimately succombed due to its size.

Yeah, so I definitely think that bigotry or resentment between Europeans and Americans, whichever direction, is ignorant and unfounded, although I can see more reason for Europeans to resent America than for the opposite to occur. Before I go any further, however, I must shout out to the person who mentioned the Red Army and the RAF in conjunction with American arrogance surrounding The Great Patriotic War (was that what USSR called it? I don't remember. :( ), or WWII. I am a Russian major in college, and an avid Russophile, and I certainly appreciate Britain's role more than America's in WWII, because they, as Russia, actually withstood and repelled an invasion. We obviously had the upper hand for the entire length of WWII - we were safe across the sea, and the only threat to us was Japanese naval and air forces, which we competently matched and dispatched of. America's glory in WWII was in the Pacific theater, and everyone knows it. Heck, we didn't drop the atomic bomb on Hitler! (for more than one good reason) Now, to the point of this rant: I respect Europe more than the vast majority of Americans, and in small part actually due to the fact that Europe is looked down upon (ironic, isn't it?) by the American public. I also recognize the technological and intellectual capabilities of Europe, and respect them. I myself see no reason why America and Europe should not have such friendly relations as the U.S. and Canada, although I admit, the U.S. public opinion mistreats Canada moreso than it does Europe. But I also think that nationalism, and close-minded patriotism, are both ingorant, and though healthy patriotism is a good thing, I am a traveller at heart, not at home anywhere than my birthplace and the open road (or sea, or air, what have ye). I value America just as much as I do Europe, though I admit America is a modern day Rome. Western history repeats itself in strikingly accurate ways, only it takes less and less time to do it. The great empires of ancient times lasted for thousands of years, in some cases, or at least hundreds. The Roman empire lasted for centuries, but only centuries. The British empire lasted within a century, and the American "empire" started in the 40's and 50's. We have roughly 50 years left, by my prediction, and I can easily see how we could fall apart in 50 or so years. We will soon overextend ourselves in one way or another, and then we will look across the Atlantic and say, yes, we know you were right, please don't rub it in. So to all the Europeans out there, I admire, respect, and look forward to exploring your countries, and to my Fellow Americans, I love my homeland and all of this country, but I just don't agree with much of its government, justice, and none of its politics. (Crazy politics) a little openminded education doesn't hurt anyone. I also noticed someone said something about the American South, and as a Southerner, I feel compelled to resent that Yankee blow. However, not resenting the North, I will say this - measure a people by their prominent generation, and though the prominent generation in the South is in the middle of switching from those crazy people who caused all that Cobb sounty science textbook controversy and also who produced Dubya, we college kids and working men and women don't see the world through such narrow eyelids. We care a whole lot less than they do, and apathy is a good thing. I only hope that my generation will learn from the crap they see now and do something about the widespread ignorance that plagues America like a skin cancer that has reached the lymphatic system. So peace out to all the Euros, Americans, and Euro-Americans.