NationStates Jolt Archive

Doctors' kitchen knives ban call (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm)



A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.

The research is published in the British Medical Journal.

The researchers said there was no reason for long pointed knives to be publicly available at all.

They consulted 10 top chefs from around the UK, and found such knives have little practical value in the kitchen.

None of the chefs felt such knives were essential, since the point of a short blade was just as useful when a sharp end was needed.

The researchers said a short pointed knife may cause a substantial superficial wound if used in an assault - but is unlikely to penetrate to inner organs.

In contrast, a pointed long blade pierces the body like "cutting into a ripe melon".

The use of knives is particularly worrying amongst adolescents, say the researchers, reporting that 24% of 16-year-olds have been shown to carry weapons, primarily knives.

The study found links between easy access to domestic knives and violent assault are long established.

French laws in the 17th century decreed that the tips of table and street knives be ground smooth.

A century later, forks and blunt-ended table knives were introduced in the UK in an effort to reduce injuries during arguments in public eating houses.

The researchers say legislation to ban the sale of long pointed knives would be a key step in the fight against violent crime.

"The Home Office is looking for ways to reduce knife crime.

"We suggest that banning the sale of long pointed knives is a sensible and practical measure that would have this effect."

Government response

Home Office spokesperson said there were already extensive restrictions in place to control the sale and possession of knives.

"The law already prohibits the possession of offensive weapons in a public place, and the possession of knives in public without good reason or lawful authority, with the exception of a folding pocket knife with a blade not exceeding three inches.

"Offensive weapons are defined as any weapon designed or adapted to cause injury, or intended by the person possessing them to do so.

"An individual has to demonstrate that he had good reason to possess a knife, for example for fishing, other sporting purposes or as part of his profession (e.g. a chef) in a public place.

"The manufacture, sale and importation of 17 bladed, pointed and other offensive weapons have been banned, in addition to flick knives and gravity knives."

A spokesperson for the Association of Chief Police Officers said: "ACPO supports any move to reduce the number of knife related incidents, however, it is important to consider the practicalities of enforcing such changes."



Not sure if I should laugh or cry over this one.

Cry, caus after this they will be after my hobby and i will be thoroughly pissed off. :mad:

It's not a propsal by anyone that matters, and thus doesn't matter at all. Really, people propose things all the time, doesn't make it worthy of attention at all.

Heh, its about time some idiot proposed something like this. We in britain have got a history of stupid non-thought through proposals like this one. Surely it would be better to actually try and tackle the behaviour that leads to the stabbings in the first place? :confused:

Theyve already banned under 18s from buying knives - im sixteen. So, i can move out on my own, get married and start a family if i want, (not that i will) but i cant own any knives for my new kitchen...or vote on who it is that makes these rules...

I don't think it's such a bad idea, people don't need long and pointy kitchen knives generally speaking. Making them illegal would be daft, since lots of law abiding people already have them, it'd be near impossible to enforce, and would lead to a lot of confusion. However, if they're less avaliable in shops, I don't really care. Small price to pay for even a slight reduction in knife-related injuries.

EDIT: Agreed about the silly under-18 law though. At 17 you can drive, marry, have kids, live alone, have a job, pay taxes, yet you can't legally buy knives, buy alcohol, or vote.

When are you guys going to ban hands and feet? You know, to cut down on punching and kicking related fatalities.

I'm not surprised. This is the same Gov't that is regulating bathwater tempurature.

When are you guys going to ban hands and feet? You know, to cut down on punching and kicking related fatalities.


Give it a few years...

What if cavemen banned arrowheads and spearheads?

When are you guys going to ban hands and feet? You know, to cut down on punching and kicking related fatalities.We already have.







~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

What about all the cars on the road? Think of the children!

No one needs to drive a car in the UK - there's plenty of public transport. Even if it was a minor reduction in the number of accidents, it would be worth it.

I'm not surprised. This is the same Gov't that is regulating bathwater tempurature.
Uh....excuse me? Is that even possible??

What about all the cars on the road? Think of the children!

No one needs to drive a car in the UK - there's plenty of public transport. Even if it was a minor reduction in the number of accidents, it would be worth it.

Don't give his Tonyship any ideas...but someone said it before it's just a proposal and only specifies a certain type of knife...not really news worthy i thought.

Uh....excuse me? Is that even possible??
Sure. You just make sure that all new water heaters cannot be set to heat water to more than, for example, 75 degrees centigrade.

What about all the cars on the road? Think of the children!

No one needs to drive a car in the UK - there's plenty of public transport. Even if it was a minor reduction in the number of accidents, it would be worth it.

Yup, bloody nanny state.

What about all the cars on the road? Think of the children!

No one needs to drive a car in the UK - there's plenty of public transport. Even if it was a minor reduction in the number of accidents, it would be worth it.

Actually, this one isn't such a bad idea me thinks..provided a highly efficient transport system is in place that could support everybody. Less pollusion, less fuel consumption...especially nowadays with more people getting SUVs...
However, getting to remote places might be harder....but if taxies are easily booked through mobile, that shouldn't be a problem too...

Actually, this one isn't such a bad idea me thinks..provided a highly efficient transport system is in place that could support everybody. Less pollusion, less fuel consumption...especially nowadays with more people getting SUVs...
However, getting to remote places might be harder....but if taxies are easily booked through mobile, that shouldn't be a problem too...

Well with governments wanted intergrated public transport systems everywhere and new and faster mean sof transport (such as maglev technology) coming in to being affordable it should get better, but only with substantial investment.

Cry, caus after this they will be after my hobby and i will be thoroughly pissed off. :mad:

Stabbing people?!?






:D

Nanny state.

There are hundreds of illegally modified cars in the UK that the police don't give a damn about, yet the moment a copper sees a non-standard motorbike exhaust, £50 fine.

I do agree, though, the point on kitchen knives is totally unneccessary.

We wouldn't have all this malarky if the had a Tory government!!!

Stabbing people?!?

:D

No, he neatly slices them into two strangers.

Stabbing people?!?

:D

:p

not quite, but almost.

I practice Longsword fencing, but despite the fact the weapons are blunt, I get no end of abuse from people who think i am some kind of crazy idiot whos sole purpose in life is to slash people. :rolleyes: They don't seem to get the fact thats its the countries history i am studying to an extent, and keeping myself healthy. But if it ain't karate or something mainstream they just don't want to listen.

Its the same when I do airsoft. I got abuse from a lady at the post office when i sent a gun back who told me like 10 times that all guns are wrong. I told her I was paying her to send my parcel and not lecture me on ethics. :rolleyes:

No, he neatly slices them into two strangers.

Glad you have faith in my cutting technique!! :D

Glad you have faith in my cutting technique!! :D

I have a large print on my wall of the "standard" cuts with a katana.

Most of them, in one hit, are supposed to cleanly separate the original person into two strangers. I had the idea that most longswords (unless you're impaling them on the blade) are of the same school.

We should ban cars. After all, they are used in over 99% of traffic accidents.

I have a large print on my wall of the "standard" cuts with a katana.

Most of them, in one hit, are supposed to cleanly separate the original person into two strangers. I had the idea that most longswords (unless you're impaling them on the blade) are of the same school.

Thats the idea with both blades its true.

Although Katanas are usually more effective on a cut that a straight bladed broadsword, because a curved blade allows for a better cut, esp a draw cut, braodswords still very good at cuts. A broadsword can cut the tatami mats that the Japanese use to practice with no problem.

It all about technique though, so its practice practice practice as normal. :)

When you can't take nail clippers onto an airplane for fear of hijacking it only goes to show that everyone is just very afraid of everything. we should also ban intimidating clothing like hoods, oh wait, thats already been done.

And for anyone asking what the hell the point of long kitchen knives is I have 1 question: have you never eaten ROAST DINNER, how are you going to carve it, with a table knife, with a plastic fork, with a wooden saftey spoon, we NEED knives if only to continue to eat tasty roast beef and lamb and pork and chicken and duck etc etc. :P

But of course vegetarians don't eat roast dinner so it is perfectly understandable to ban all vegetarians from posessing knives greater than 3 inches and having a blade stronger than sill putty :)

It is also particualy hipocritical as it is perfectly possible to mail order crossbows, samurai and ninja swords, throwing knives, throwing stars and even full sized broad swords, methinks that the humble kitchen knife cannot even compare to these monstrosities of death and destruction and occasional fun. (and ninja training etc) :)

We wouldn't have all this malarky if the had a Tory government!!!

True, if the Tories were in power West Middlesex University Hospital would probably been shut down :p

It's really not all that ridiculous when you think about it. It'll just make knives less stabby and more slashy. So people who want to cut food or someone's throat will still be perfectly able to, but people who want to stab chests will be out of luck.

I just use steak knives with serrated edges.

Its the only type of knife I use and it works on everything it need from cutting beef and chicken to spreading butter and jam on toast.

I am in shock and dismay at this ban

It is also particualy hipocritical as it is perfectly possible to mail order crossbows, samurai and ninja swords, throwing knives, throwing stars and even full sized broad swords, methinks that the humble kitchen knife cannot even compare to these monstrosities of death and destruction and occasional fun. (and ninja training etc) :)

Just to carry on from this, thing is, half the crap you find on the internet is even more dangerous, as its not meant to be used anyway. Any swords made out of stainless steel are cheap for a reason, caus they are not functional (despite what some manufacturers and ebay sellers say). Do you think a criminal is going to buy a proper sword costing £500 so they can kill some one? I really don't think so. They'll buy a cheap piece of crap, use it, then those who actually have a legitimate interest in this stuff get the blame caus the idiot used a 'ninja sword'. Thing is because of this the knives are more dangerous, caus they are made to be used, but the proposal is stupid.

You can't actually buy throwing stars in the UK, or flick knives either, however you can buy throwing darts for some reason...another loophole. Crazy. :rolleyes:

I am in shock and dismay at this ban

What ban? What has been banned?


This was proposed by a group of doctors, it (hopefully) won't go further.*






*par boils words in case ingestion is needed.

I hope it won't. The doctors are speaking out because they want to help, and its the best way they can think of. But its just another step on the slippery slope.

Lol funny. Now you guys are going to eat fish and chips with plastic fork and knives.

Imo, a enraged crazed person would attack someone with any weapon readily available. If it's not the knives, it's guns. If it's neither them both, it's going to be the hot frying pan or the fireplace poker next.

Lol funny. Now you guys are going to eat fish and chips with plastic fork and knives.

We have wee wooden chip-forks. Much better.

Don't ban them too!

We have wee wooden chip-forks. Much better.

Don't ban them too!

Obviously they are dangerous caus you can kill people with splinters ;)

What ban? What has been banned?
I mean the proposed ban, sry for the ambiguous post - the thing is that whatever gets banned, the criminals will just start using some other 'weapon'

Uh....excuse me? Is that even possible??

Yep.

Ministers say by 2006 all new homes and conversions will need to have a safety device controlling water temperature in showers, wash basins and baths.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3371197.stm

Yep.

Ministers say by 2006 all new homes and conversions will need to have a safety device controlling water temperature in showers, wash basins and baths.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3371197.stm

I can see it being useful for kids and old people but for gods sake, who puts actual boiling (100C) water in their bath!?!?

Holy cow. I knew people we're stupid. But not that stupid.

Lol funny. Now you guys are going to eat fish and chips with plastic fork and knives.

.

It's being tried.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/lancashire/3541165.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/3327715.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2860437.stm

We wouldn't have all this malarky if the had a Tory government!!!
Why do you think that? It was the Tories who first banned handguns in 1997, a policy continued by Labour.

Frankly, after all the posts I read from Europeans (and UK in particular) about how bad guns are and how laws banning things are such a good idea, all I can do is giggle.

Bans of one thing lead to bans on other things. You reap what you sow. :rolleyes:

There's a parallel thread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=422059

Great minds think alike, I guess.

When are you guys going to ban hands and feet? You know, to cut down on punching and kicking related fatalities.

Exactly what I was thinking. If kitchen knives are banned, then gangs or violent crime will start to involve alot more punching and kicking. Or, they will use big heavy objects like nearby loose poles or heavy peices of wood. Really, instead of "slicing bodies like ripe melons" you could get beaten like a rotten orange instead. And thinking of fruits, why do they use friuts as the standard unit of measurment for how easily an item cuts? :D

What about all the cars on the road? Think of the children!

No one needs to drive a car in the UK - there's plenty of public transport. Even if it was a minor reduction in the number of accidents, it would be worth it.

Subtle difference, there's plenty of reasons driving a car is useful but very little reason to need large pointy kitchen knives over large kitchen knives with curvy ends. I'm not advocating a total ban, but I won't lose sleep if they stop selling them.

I rely on the public transport system here and it sucks. Can be quite restrictive on what I can do and where I can go. Next year I'll be dependent on my bike (and I'd better buy a new personal alarm considering the less-than-wonderful area I'll be riding through) and not having a car seriously restricts what you can do safely, especially when you're a young single female.

Obviously they are dangerous caus you can kill people with splinters ;)
Won't someone please think of the vampire children!

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! I am all for socialised medicine and such, but this is going TOO far! What next? Are they going to ban table linens larger than 30 by 30cm? Jesus Christ that is hilarious!

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! I am all for socialised medicine and such, but this is going TOO far! What next? Are they going to ban table linens larger than 30 by 30cm? Jesus Christ that is hilarious!
No, socks and batteries. They're afraid someone will drop three "D" cell batteries into a sock and beat an old lady with it.

Sure. You just make sure that all new water heaters cannot be set to heat water to more than, for example, 75 degrees centigrade.

Better yet!

Install government licensed bath water temperature gauges. To moniter this, the government wil have to create a whole new department of inspectors that have the right to inspect residences to make sure that all the meters in all the bathrooms are working properly. This shouldnt cost too much, and people will be more than willing to accept a small tax hike... think of all the children who wont be scalded.

Better yet!

Install government licensed bath water temperature gauges. To moniter this, the government wil have to create a whole new department of inspectors that have the right to inspect residences to make sure that all the meters in all the bathrooms are working properly. This shouldnt cost too much, and people will be more than willing to accept a small tax hike... think of all the children who wont be scalded.
Yes, but think of all the people who will be deprived of toddler soup.

Aren't pratical? I want to see you people try and cut a watermelon with a 3inch blade. It can't be done. Now a big, well weighted 12 inch blade slices through that sucker like, well, a knife through a ripe melon.

And even if knives are banned you still have axes. Actually I think there was a thread on these boards not to long ago about some English guy killing another with a woodax.

Yes, but think of all the people who will be deprived of toddler soup.

Well, like the UK Olympic shooters, they will just have to suffer. Besides, its fairly cheap to come t go to countries with strict controls yet cheap toddler soup.