NationStates Jolt Archive

It is frequently pointed out, with some justification, that the USA is successful due to the work ethic of the Americans. They aparently work longer hours and have fewer holidays than their European counterparts.

However, watching the coverage of daytime midweek baseball, there are frequently crowds of 20, 000 + people watching the game. Who are they?

They can not be unemployed as ticket prices are too high for this, they are not school kids bunking off a day (not all of them anyway). So who are they?

It is frequently pointed out, with some justification, that the USA is successful due to the work ethic of the Americans. They aparently work longer hours and have fewer holidays than their European counterparts.

However, watching the coverage of daytime midweek baseball, there are frequently crowds of 20, 000 + people watching the game. Who are they?

They can not be unemployed as ticket prices are too high for this, they are not school kids bunking off a day (not all of them anyway). So who are they?

They take a vacation day. They are retired. They work evenings. They take business contacts to the game.

They take a vacation day. They are retired. They work evenings. They take business contacts to the game.

I could see these, combined, accounting for some 20% of the crowd.
(Working evenings and going to the ball game before seems a silly idea - you may well have to miss the end of the game, and it would severely limit the beer consumption which seems to be the main point of the game, rather like cricket.)

I could see these, combined, accounting for some 20% of the crowd.
Your made-up stats don't actually prove anything.

(Working evenings and going to the ball game before seems a silly idea - you may well have to miss the end of the game, and it would severely limit the beer consumption which seems to be the main point of the game, rather like cricket.)
Not everyone drinks beer. Not everyone who drinks it feels the need to drink enough to get drunk. Myself, I love beer, but I hate drinking at the ballpark. The beers are too expensive, and the bathroom waits are too long. Besides, every time I'm in the bathroom, I'm missing the game, and I paid a lot to be there.

Not mentioned in the first response to this is people who work odd work weeks. It was only a few years ago that my days off were in the middle of the week. And right now, I still get alternating Fridays off. What with Memorial Day, I'm only turning in a 3-day work week next week.

A large number of people work odd days, hours, have their own businesses. You name it. Some of them are calling in sick. I don't understand your inability to not see this. They are real people in the stands. Some of them drive from hours away to attend the game. I live four hours away from the Twins and make it to three or four games a year. No big deal.

Who watches baseball, period!

Really, it's even more boring than football (the real kind, and not the "rugby for pansies" one), and that's really something.

The point was, and it has been shown to be the case, that the claim that the Americans all work harder, is plain false.
You get every other friday off! What kind of hard work is that, unless it is to compensate working a weekend day (which you do not claim). I can see that a lot of people go and they are not pensioners or school kids. I was curious as to how this combines with the claimed 60 hour week that we hear so often here. It doesn't. It is a question of selective thinking. At times you work a 60 hour week, at others you work less than 25. It balances out.

How do I get to see this, well I work freelance, so I choose my own working hours, and I accept that this would account for some of the people, but 20,000 + every day for 162 days (less weekends of course), is a lot to account for.

@ Fass. Each to their own huh. Football can be as boring as watching paint dry, so can baseball. If you don't like it, don't watch it. No one is making you.

Mondays are my days off.

This coming Monday I am flying from Maryland to Houston, TX to watch the Reds play the Astros for an afternoon game with my children.

I just love the episode of the Simpsons where Homer goes to a baseball game while he promised to not drink to marge. He sits there watching and not drinking beer and says "I never realised how boring this game is"

So true.

Who watches baseball, period!

Really, it's even more boring than football (the real kind, and not the "rugby for pansies" one), and that's really something.

Millions of people watch baseball.

Millions of people watch baseball.

Thankfully not where I can see them.

American Football is not rugby for pansies, i am English, and i know anyone who says that has never properly watched the game. It is such a brutal sport and i just love it!

Thankfully not where I can see them.

I'm sure the feeling is more than mutual.

American Football is not rugby for pansies, i am English, and i know anyone who says that has never properly watched the game. It is such a brutal sport and i just love it!

I saw a bit of the "Superbowl". They took constant breaks and the padding made them look like little marshmallow people.

I'm sure the feeling is more than mutual.

Hopefully, as most people who play anything remotely close to baseball here are school girl teams. And even they are more exciting to watch.

The point was, and it has been shown to be the case, that the claim that the Americans all work harder, is plain false.
You get every other friday off! What kind of hard work is that, unless it is to compensate working a weekend day (which you do not claim). I can see that a lot of people go and they are not pensioners or school kids. I was curious as to how this combines with the claimed 60 hour week that we hear so often here. It doesn't. It is a question of selective thinking. At times you work a 60 hour week, at others you work less than 25. It balances out.

I work a 9-hour workday instead of the regular 8. The working Friday of 8 hours and the non-working Friday flesh out an 80-hour schedule every two weeks. I have just as many working hours as the normal 40-hour work week.

In addition, I am on call 24/7 for alternating two-week periods, and the calls can and do come at all hours of the night. Those calls take as long as the problem takes to solve, and can keep me up 15 minutes or through the following day, depending.

So, to summarize: blow me.

How do I get to see this, well I work freelance, so I choose my own working hours, and I accept that this would account for some of the people, but 20,000 + every day for 162 days (less weekends of course), is a lot to account for.
I looked for an Angels game which was played in the afternoon on a weekday, and found attendance at 38,000. It is a city only numbering about a third of a million residents. However, it is part of a greater urbanized area which draws immediate support from the following Southern California counties: Orange, Los Angeles, San Bernardino, and Riverside. It can also expect to draw support from other nearby counties, but these are the main ones. If you throw out Los Angeles County as Dodger country, that still leaves you with three counties who combine for approximately 7M people.

Do you think it's hard to find 38,000 people out of 7M who have the time and inclination to attend a weekday afternoon ballgame?

The reason they take so many breaks is due to television and advertising. Otherwise the breaks would be shorter. Breaks annoy me, its the worst part about watching American Football as you have to wait so long for action. The padding is necessary otherwise many people would be killed playing it.

Plus, its one of the few sports where really large people can get paid millions to play :p (not that i am large, anything but)

I saw a bit of the "Superbowl". They took constant breaks and the padding made them look like little marshmallow people.

Were you turned on by the tight butts Fass?

Anyway, most daytime games are Businessman Specials, and most games played are not during the day, but in the evening. A ticket to a baseball game is relatively inexpensive. I can take my wife and two kids to a game buy them all drinks, a hot dog, and a program for under $75.

The reason they take so many breaks is due to television and advertising.

I'm not talking about the commercial breaks. I'm talking about the ones that went a little like "stand in a huddle for a long time, do that little formation thing where the "ball" is thrown, run a meter or two, catch the ball and fall to the ground, stop the time and wait for several minutes before you do it again and before you start the time."

Otherwise the breaks would be shorter. Breaks annoy me, its the worst part about watching American Football as you have to wait so long for action. The padding is necessary otherwise many people would be killed playing it.

Rugby players manage nicely.

Plus, its one of the few sports where really large people can get paid millions to play :p (not that i am large, anything but)

Sort of like bowling, only that bowling actually goes somewhere in a reasonable amount of time.

Were you turned on by the tight butts Fass.

If only the butts were tight! A lot of them were just fat and saggy. But mybe that was the padding? Hard to tell the difference.

I work a 9-hour workday instead of the regular 8. The working Friday of 8 hours and the non-working Friday flesh out an 80-hour schedule every two weeks. I have just as many working hours as the normal 40-hour work week.
I allowed that it may be altered time shifts, just commented that you did not make this clear.

I looked for an Angels game which was played in the afternoon on a weekday, and found attendance at 38,000. It is a city only numbering about a third of a million residents. However, it is part of a greater urbanized area which draws immediate support from the following Southern California counties: Orange, Los Angeles, San Bernardino, and Riverside. It can also expect to draw support from other nearby counties, but these are the main ones. If you throw out Los Angeles County as Dodger country, that still leaves you with three counties who combine for approximately 7M people.

Do you think it's hard to find 38,000 people out of 7M who have the time and inclination to attend a weekday afternoon ballgame?

If it were just SF, LA, NYC and Chicago, then this type of argument would hold water, but is this also the case in Atlanta, or Arlington, or San Diego, etc. It is easy to show that in large connurbations (the three mentioned counting LA and SF as a connurbation) there is a market. The question hangs over whether such market exists in St Louis or Seattle?

If only the butts were tight! A lot of them were just fat and saggy. But mybe that was the padding? Hard to tell the difference.


You are such a bad liar. There are no butt pads, there is a tailbone pad, but no butt pads.

Yeah I'm sure all of those fit guys in the NFL have "fat and saggy" butts.

you can also expect that a lot of the crowd is young college kids and kids in highs chool who can easily get to games. I am in high school and miss a day with my friends at least once a month to go to a game

If it were just SF, LA, NYC and Chicago, then this type of argument would hold water, but is this also the case in Atlanta, or Arlington, or San Diego, etc. It is easy to show that in large connurbations (the three mentioned counting LA and SF as a connurbation) there is a market. The question hangs over whether such market exists in St Louis or Seattle?
There is a double-edged sword in play here, though. Yes, a city like Seattle has a much smaller local fan base... King County has less than 2M residents. Of course, the Mariners can also draw fans from the entire state of Washington, where the Angels can't. And since it is a smaller market, there isn't the glut of entertainment alternatives that you find in NYC, Chicago, etc. That makes the ballgame more attractive by comparison, meaning it will lure a larger percentage of the people.

It's also an excellent way to entertain clients, and reward employees. My company gives out free tickets to games every month.

Were you turned on by the tight butts Fass?

Anyway, most daytime games are Businessman Specials, and most games played are not during the day, but in the evening. A ticket to a baseball game is relatively inexpensive. I can take my wife and two kids to a game buy them all drinks, a hot dog, and a program for under $75.


And American complain about the price of gas? US$75 is a lot of money, if you think about it in terms of what it will buy you outside of going to the ball park.

That was the reason I believe that most of the crowd are employed in some way.

You are such a bad liar. There are no butt pads, there is a tailbone pad, but no butt pads.

What's that sticking out from his side? (http://www.collegeprofiles.com/images/csp-pic-football-1.jpg) Something that makes his ass look fat and saggy! Really, before you call people "bad liars," you should check into actually knowing something.

Yeah I'm sure all of those fit guys in the NFL have "fat and saggy" butts.

Fit? Maybe by US standards, but that really doesn't say much at all...

A ticket to a baseball game is relatively inexpensive. I can take my wife and two kids to a game buy them all drinks, a hot dog, and a program for under $75.

Not at Fenway park you can't. :)

Baseball isn't boring. If you care to learn how the game is played you can take interest in every pitch and every play. If it was boring I doubt most of America, Carribean, and Japan would have baseball leagues with huge fanbases.

EDIT: http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/large/10201000/10201678.jpg
No, most players dont where butt pads.

And American complain about the price of gas? US$75 is a lot of money, if you think about it in terms of what it will buy you outside of going to the ball park.

That was the reason I believe that most of the crowd are employed in some way.
It's basically the price of going to two movies with the same family of four, or a third of the cost of taking them to an amusement park for the day. It's less than the price of one hotel room if you want to travel with the family. As far as entertainment value goes, you can do a lot worse. We are, after all, talking about entertainment dollars, which are budgeted differently than gas, a necessity. When the necessities go up, you can't have fun. If entertainment costs go up, you just go do something else instead.

What's that sticking out from his side? (http://www.collegeprofiles.com/images/csp-pic-football-1.jpg) Something that makes his ass look fat and saggy! Really, before you call people "bad liars," you should check into actually knowing something.
Funny, I don't see a butt in that picture.

Not at Fenway park you can't. :)
At the Big A you can. 5th highest payroll, and lowest stadium costs when everything including concessions is considered. I love Arte Moreno. He could call the team "The Fallujah Communists Brought To You By Viagra" so long as he keeps it that way.

Baseball isn't boring. If you care to learn how the game is played you can take interest in every pitch and every play. If it was boring I doubt most of America, Carribean, and Japan would have baseball leagues with huge fanbases.
That argument doesn't actually work, and I can tell you why in one word: soccer.

EDIT: http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/large/10201000/10201678.jpg
No, most players dont where butt pads.
Don't ask, don't tell....

US$75 is a lot of money, if you think about it in terms of what it will buy you outside of going to the ball park.



$75 is not much money.

PS I don't complain about gas prices, as I have no control over it.

What's that sticking out from his side? (http://www.collegeprofiles.com/images/csp-pic-football-1.jpg) Something that makes his ass look fat and saggy! Really, before you call people "bad liars," you should check into actually knowing something.



Fit? Maybe by US standards, but that really doesn't say much at all...


Hey Fass, hip-pads are not butt pads. You should know what an ass looks like, right? You still are a bad liar. I bet you dream of being hit by all of those hairy, fat, and saggy butts.

Fit, yes. Can you run 40yrds in under 5 seconds? BTW how many medals did your country come home with?

What's that sticking out from his side? (http://www.collegeprofiles.com/images/csp-pic-football-1.jpg) Something that makes his ass look fat and saggy! Really, before you call people "bad liars," you should check into actually knowing something.

Fit? Maybe by US standards, but that really doesn't say much at all...

Having played American Football, I can assure you there is no padding on the 'butt' as the Americans like to call it. There is a tail pad, to protect the coccyx and hip pads to protect the hip, but nothing whatsoever protecting the butt.

And as for fitness, until you have tried it for yourself, don't judge. Some linemen carry a few (euphamistically) extra pounds, but they are as cardiovascularly fit as any marathon runner.

I thought, by the way, that you would have recognised the difference between a hip and an ass, as what you can see in that photo is the hip pad. Try a photo from the rear huh (http://www.siegler.net/cowboys/images/2000/owens_star1.jpg)

Having played American Football, I can assure you there is no padding on the 'butt' as the Americans like to call it. There is a tail pad, to protect the coccyx and hip pads to protect the hip, but nothing whatsoever protecting the butt.

And as for fitness, until you have tried it for yourself, don't judge. Some linemen carry a few (euphamistically) extra pounds, but they are as cardiovascularly fit as any marathon runner.

I thought, by the way, that you would have recognised the difference between a hip and an ass, as what you can see in that photo is the hip pad. Try a photo from the rear huh (http://www.siegler.net/cowboys/images/2000/owens_star1.jpg)

On some days when the ground was frozen I would stick towels in there for extra butt padding, but there's nothing that actually goes there normally.

On some days when the ground was frozen I would stick towels in there for extra butt padding, but there's nothing that actually goes there normally.

Sissy! :D

Sissy! :D

Hey, screw you! I got knocked on my ass a lot. :D

Hey, screw you! I got knocked on my ass a lot. :D

Playing the wrong position I guess. I played D line (mostly end, but sometimes tackle) so I tended to do the knocking on the ass.

Playing the wrong position I guess. I played D line (mostly end, but sometimes tackle) so I tended to do the knocking on the ass.

O line and D line here. Tackle on both sides.

Hey, screw you! I got knocked on my ass a lot. :D


You should have a hairy ass to hide the bruises.

O line and D line here. Tackle on both sides.

I played right guard for one play in one game (injury sub). It was no fun, you couldn't kill the opponent. Well as it was a run to the left with no pulling guard, I was pretty much free to do what I wanted, but it did not have the same satisfaction as meeting the running back square on as he cuts into the hole.

I played right guard for one play in one game (injury sub). It was no fun, you couldn't kill the opponent. Well as it was a run to the left with no pulling guard, I was pretty much free to do what I wanted, but it did not have the same satisfaction as meeting the running back square on as he cuts into the hole.

I actually quite enjoyed O-line. To me, there was nothing quite like the satisfaction I got when I successfully held off an end AND a linebacker on blitz as we got a first down. I liked having the opposing defense throwing all they could at me and having it mean nothing. :)