NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15419150-2,00.html

I don't imagine this will mean much to those who aren't from Australia or Indonesia, but Schapelle Corby has been sentenced to 20 years imprisonment for the alleged attempted smuggling of 4.1 kilograms into Bali. I'm not exactly surprised by the decision considering the judge in question who was presiding over the case has never given a not-guilty verdict before, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on the case.

I'm not exactly sure how I should react to this entire affair personally. I think 20 years imprisonment is ridiculously extreme for 4.1 kilos, especially considering Abu Bakar Bashir, the head of the militant group Jamah Islamiah only got a fraction of that sentence, but then again, you go to the country, you obey their laws.

Well drug smuggling is a capital offence in a lot of South East Asian countries but I think there's a chance it might have been slipped in by some drug smugglers. Another Australian had his baggage opened at the airport by some jerk and security at some of these places isn't the best in the world. I certainly hope they can determine the truth and that, if she's innocent, she won't swing for this.

Thats a travesty of justice! I don't understand why the Australian Gov't hasn't just smuggled her out of the country and back home. Its not like Indonesia would have a leg to stand on and complain. I'm c'mon, they abuse human rights and harbour terrorists, commit genocide. Fuck em.. If anyone did any real investigating they'd probably find the Judge complcit in abbetting drug manufacturers and smugglers himself. Corruption isn't a problem in the Indonesian system, it IS the Indonesian system.

My thoughts? The only reason she would smuggle that much dope is if she was planning to sell it. Why would she want to sell drugs in Indonesia when she would never be able to sell at half the price she could at Australia? Not only that, it's obviously more risky to smuggle drugs into Indonesia then to keep them in Australia where should would have gotten them if she was smuggling them at all.

I say something is fishy. I might be biased since I'm thoroughly western and she's kind of cute, but I doubt it.

Corruption isn't a problem in the Indonesian system, it IS the Indonesian system. Ahhahaha! Having being to Bali a few times, I've gotta agree. Any speeding ticket can be silenced with a bit of Aussie cash.

I cannot believe how biased the news coverage towards Corby has been. It has been like a soap opera, playing the latest "what's happening to Schapelle?". There has not been one person to suggest the possibility that Corby may in fact be guilty.

Those people who say it is the Australian Government's fault for not stepping in, need to wake up to themselves. Corby is found guilty of an offence in Indonesia, no matter how cruel the courts there may seem, and she now has to suffer the consequences of being found guilty. Indonesia does not answer to Australia, and Australia has no right to demand that Corby be released.

I sure as hell hope that if we had an Indonesian in our courts, that Indonesia wouldn't attempt to intervene with our legal system.

You need to understand that Indonesia is a Muslim country with Muslim laws. The government wants to send out a strong message to those peddling drugs - it will not be tolerated.

I am also sure that if it was an Aboriginal man that was found with marijuana in his bags in Indonesia, he would have no where near as much coverage as Corby has had.

Something similar happened to a Candian citizen in Vietnam. She'd been born in Vietnam, escaped to Canada, become a citizen, then returned (with permission of both gov'ts) to visit family still in Vietnam. She was 80 something and not in good health. After a month there she got busted by the gov't for being a heroin kingpin of all things. They immediately slapped her in jail pending trial. When her daughter went over to help her, they slapped her in jail too, saying she was the real power behind the Heroin racket they'd supposedly uncovered. They were both found guilty at a "trial" and sentenced to 100 years in prison or some such ridiculous thing. It took the our gov't years to negotiate their release, and the Vietnamese never admitted they'd made a mistake, despite mountains of proof that the entire fiasco was concocted by a Vietnamese General to save his ass from being caught as the real drug kingpin. He did die in an "accident" shortly afterwards however.

So, I really empathize with this case. I'm all for sending in commandos to break her out of jail and maybe shoot a few Indonesian officials while they're at it.

I'd heard about this, but I'm fuzzy on one detail...

...I'm assuming the "Class 1 Narcotic" that the article refers to is Marijuana, correct?

If it was an American caught in Australia and America acted the way Australia is acting I bet many Australians would feel diffrently about the idea of one country interfereing in another's legal system. The media coverage has been absolutely slanted, they don't care they just want to sell advertising space.

A similar things is happening to the Bali nine, some of them are with one newt work, others with another. The media does not seem to care that they are harming not only Australia-Indonesia relations, but also the defences of these Australians and future Australians who will be charged. I abhor the way the media has been covering both cases.

Personally however, I feel that 20 years is too long a sentence, but then again I also think dope should be legal and that governments should not prevent that individual liberty.

I am also sure that if it was an Aboriginal man that was found with marijuana in his bags in Indonesia, he would have no where near as much coverage as Corby has had.

Nothing like a pretty young girl to help the media give slanted coverage. There have been heaps of cases where no one gave a stuff what happens.

I don't agree with Indonesia's rules, but that isn't for me to judge.

Thats a travesty of justice! I don't understand why the Australian Gov't hasn't just smuggled her out of the country and back home.

Yes of course, just manage to sneak someone out of a prision in the middle of the night; like in the movies. :rolleyes:

Its not like Indonesia would have a leg to stand on and complain. I'm c'mon, they abuse human rights and harbour terrorists, commit genocide. Fuck em..

Abuse human rights? Which ones?
Harbouring terrorist? I think you mean hunting. Indonesia has been a good ally in the "war on terror" and I don't think we want to lose that.
Commit genocide? The only case I can think of is in Aceh during the Suharto dictatorship. Times have changed.

If anyone did any real investigating they'd probably find the Judge complcit in abbetting drug manufacturers and smugglers himself. Corruption isn't a problem in the Indonesian system, it IS the Indonesian system.
Indonesia is cleaning up; and I very much doubt the judge is running drugs; eitherwise he wouldn't live in such a squalor.

Didnt the Bali Bombers get like 3 years? if so thats messed up 3 years for the bali bombings but 20 for drugs?

Also that person who was talking about it and was like saying how she will have her life ruined and wont be able to marry or have children and how we dont do that in Australia, needs to realize Bali isnt in Australia and its entitled to give out what ever punishment it wants

Didnt the Bali Bombers get like 3 years? if so thats messed up 3 years for the bali bombings but 20 for drugs?


No they get the firing squad, apart from Akabukar Bashir (sp) on whom mud failed to stick and they only managed to get him for 3 years. They are trying Bashir again, hopefully they get him this time.

Oh Okay I cant remeber much about it 'sept something about 3 years so yeah :D

Something similar happened to a Candian citizen in Vietnam. She'd been born in Vietnam, escaped to Canada, become a citizen, then returned (with permission of both gov'ts) to visit family still in Vietnam. She was 80 something and not in good health. After a month there she got busted by the gov't for being a heroin kingpin of all things. They immediately slapped her in jail pending trial. When her daughter went over to help her, they slapped her in jail too, saying she was the real power behind the Heroin racket they'd supposedly uncovered. They were both found guilty at a "trial" and sentenced to 100 years in prison or some such ridiculous thing. It took the our gov't years to negotiate their release, and the Vietnamese never admitted they'd made a mistake, despite mountains of proof that the entire fiasco was concocted by a Vietnamese General to save his ass from being caught as the real drug kingpin. He did die in an "accident" shortly afterwards however.

So, I really empathize with this case. I'm all for sending in commandos to break her out of jail and maybe shoot a few Indonesian officials while they're at it.

How about the American guy, I think it was, caught with drugs in Turkey. They made a movie about it and stuff.

Nothing like a pretty young girl to help the media give slanted coverage. There have been heaps of cases where no one gave a stuff what happens.

I don't agree with Indonesia's rules, but that isn't for me to judge.

Like the movie Quiz Show - you need a poster boy/girl for the media to latch on to... the media's all about money too, don't forget. It's still show BUSINESS.

No they get the firing squad, apart from Akabukar Bashir (sp) on whom mud failed to stick and they only managed to get him for 3 years. They are trying Bashir again, hopefully they get him this time.

I do believe it was Amrosi who got 3 or so years for his part in the Bali bombings. However, they didn't have any concrete proof that he was involved except maybe for his confession and his complete and utter lack of remorse. Oh wait...

(I'm a bit shady on the details, it was a little while ago now and I don't quite remember if he actually confessed but that's what I think I remember. Please feel free to correct me.)

What annoys me about this Schapelle Corby case is that the prosecution never allowed for fingerprinting of the plastic bag the marijuana was found in. For those of you who may be thinking that I'm talking about the boogie board bag, I'm not. Quite obviously if it wasn't hers, she'd never seen it before, had no idea about it and it was planted in her bag by drug smugglers at Sydney International Airport, then her fingerprints would be nowhere on that bag which would make a huge impact on the verdict. That bag was a key piece of evidence and it was never considered. That to me, Indonesia, sounds a bit shifty.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15419150-2,00.html

I don't imagine this will mean much to those who aren't from Australia or Indonesia, but Schapelle Corby has been sentenced to 20 years imprisonment for the alleged attempted smuggling of 4.1 kilograms into Bali. I'm not exactly surprised by the decision considering the judge in question who was presiding over the case has never given a not-guilty verdict before, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on the case.

I'm not exactly sure how I should react to this entire affair personally. I think 20 years imprisonment is ridiculously extreme for 4.1 kilos, especially considering Abu Bakar Bashir, the head of the militant group Jamah Islamiah only got a fraction of that sentence, but then again, you go to the country, you obey their laws.
I must admit that I find terrorism worse than drug dealing. 4.1 kg is quite a lot of dope though... 20 years still seems like too much to me for dope.

I do believe it was Amrosi who got 3 or so years for his part in the Bali bombings. However, they didn't have any concrete proof that he was involved except maybe for his confession and his complete and utter lack of remorse. Oh wait...
No, Amrosi got the firing squad.

What annoys me about this Schapelle Corby case is that the prosecution never allowed for fingerprinting of the plastic bag the marijuana was found in. For those of you who may be thinking that I'm talking about the boogie board bag, I'm not. Quite obviously if it wasn't hers, she'd never seen it before, had no idea about it and it was planted in her bag by drug smugglers at Sydney International Airport, then her fingerprints would be nowhere on that bag which would make a huge impact on the verdict.
The prosecution didn't disallow it; something happened to the bag. Judges and prosecuters were rather annoyed as I understand.

I'm studying in Australia..and Ive been following the news. I feel really sad bout the sentencing. I think she's innocent!

If in my country, the sentence would be death by hanging! :eek: And I sometimes wonder how many innocent people are actually hanged by mistake; though a good number of people are fighting against that law now. However, I think she would have recieved a much thorough investigation then what she have.


the prosecution never allowed for fingerprinting of the plastic bag the marijuana was found in.

This can't right. :mad:

No, Amrosi got the firing squad.

Ah, of course. Thank you for correcting me. It was my misunderstanding and it has now been rectified with some searches to clarify that he did indeed get death... which is a very easy punishment for a martyr.

Ah, of course. Thank you for correcting me. It was my misunderstanding and it has now been rectified with some searches to clarify that he did indeed get death... which is a very easy punishment for a martyr.

They should smoother them in pig fat if they must execute them, that "prevents their souls going to heaven."

Personally I think a lifetime in prison, enduring re-runs of American sitcoms and eating pork would do.

[QUOTE=Spiel Mit Mir]

You need to understand that Indonesia is a Muslim country with Muslim laws. The government wants to send out a strong message to those peddling drugs - it will not be tolerated.

QUOTE]

Islamic Law maintains the importance of the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Indonesia certainly doesn't follow this law. If it did, Corby would have been sent home months ago.

They should smoother them in pig fat if they must execute them, that "prevents their souls going to heaven."


A judge who is inhumane enough to issue such a sentencing would deserved a similar death sentence as well.

A judge who is inhumane enough to issue such a sentencing would deserved a similar death sentence as well.

It stops terrorism in its tracks.

All I can say is my brothers and I were going to Bali at the end of the year, now we are not. I dont think their tourism could take much more of this after the bombings and now they have shown how easy it is to get in trouble, regardless of whether she is guilty or not

It stops terrorism in its tracks.

I believe it only creates fear to control people. Like certain religions that relys on fear...where people are only doing good out of their selfish fear of certain hell..etc..

Personally I think she's innocent, but the defence didn't provide enough evidence to prove it to the court, so now we have to accept the decision of the Indonesion judicial system.

All I can say is my brothers and I were going to Bali at the end of the year, now we are not. I dont think their tourism could take much more of this after the bombings and now they have shown how easy it is to get in trouble, regardless of whether she is guilty or not

I'm definately not gonna take that risk either.

Islamic Law maintains the importance of the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Indonesia certainly doesn't follow this law. If it did, Corby would have been sent home months ago.
The judges felt she was proven guilty. I wasn't at the trial, to judge her; I didn't realise you were.

I believe it only creates fear to control people. Like certain religions that relys on fear...where people are only doing good out of their selfish fear of certain hell..etc..

Instead of doing evil in hope of heaven?

The judges felt she was proven guilty. I wasn't at the trial, to judge her; I didn't realise you were.

I'm simply stating that had the burden of proof been on the prosecution, on the balance of probabilities she would have been found innocent. Neither side of the case had concrete evidence, it was merely the fact that her defence failed to prove her innocence that she is now behind bars.

If the prosecution was required to prove her guilt, she would have walked free.

Personally I think she's innocent, but the defence didn't provide enough evidence to prove it to the court, so now we have to accept the decision of the Indonesion judicial system.
and again, if innocence is assumed untill proven guilty, isnt it up to the prosecution to prove that she is guilty not the defence to prove she is innocent?
I'm definately not gonna take that risk either.
Might go to New Zealand instead

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15419150-2,00.html

I don't imagine this will mean much to those who aren't from Australia or Indonesia, but Schapelle Corby has been sentenced to 20 years imprisonment for the alleged attempted smuggling of 4.1 kilograms into Bali. I'm not exactly surprised by the decision considering the judge in question who was presiding over the case has never given a not-guilty verdict before, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on the case.

I'm not exactly sure how I should react to this entire affair personally. I think 20 years imprisonment is ridiculously extreme for 4.1 kilos, especially considering Abu Bakar Bashir, the head of the militant group Jamah Islamiah only got a fraction of that sentence, but then again, you go to the country, you obey their laws.

Poor girl, she is so clearly innocent. Even though I am in America, I have tried to follow this case as best I could, and I'm frankly a bit shocked that Australia has not stepped in for one of it's own, when she has been so clearly framed and the evidence so blatantly planted.

I really feel for her, a girl with everything to live for who's life has now been ruined by the draconian, archaic laws of a nation trying so desperately to control the chaotic populous by force. Indonesia should look to Scandinavian countries for guidance, and will quickly realize that the easiest way to quell a rabid populous is to let the small shit slide and concentrate on the big issues instead.

Unfortunately, Indonesia, like many other backwards third world nations, seems to be fighting off the shackles of it's own dark ages in a furious attempt to enter the modern age, and has gone about it completely the ass wrong way.

Now an innocent young woman will spend the best years of her life in prison because of Indonesia's inability to make peace with the many cultures and factions within it's borders, it hardly seems fair.

I'd heard about this, but I'm fuzzy on one detail...

...I'm assuming the "Class 1 Narcotic" that the article refers to is Marijuana, correct?
indeed

It stops terrorism in its tracks.
I know 88 Australian's that would beg the differ, oh wait they cant, they are dead.

Instead of doing evil in hope of heaven?

Instead of generating more evil.

and again, if innocence is assumed untill proven guilty, isnt it up to the prosecution to prove that she is guilty not the defence to prove she is innocent?

Might go to New Zealand instead

Yes. I expect that the judges would view the drugs found in her bag as pretty much proof of guilt. It's up to her defence team to show that she had no connection with the marijuana, therefore putting doubt in the judge's minds.

Yes. I expect that the judges would view the drugs found in her bag as pretty much proof of guilt. It's up to her defence team to show that she had no connection with the marijuana, therefore putting doubt in the judge's minds.
pretty much = doubt

pretty much = doubt

I'm not agreeing with the judge's decision. I don't know what went on in their heads during their decision making process. She had 4kg of dope in her bag. Her defence couldn't provide enough evidence to the judges to persuade them it wasn't hers. If you had 4kg of drugs in your house & the police discovered it, the onus would be on you to prove that you had nothing to do with it. Otherwise, I expect you too would be found guilty in a court of law.

Instead of generating more evil.
In case you didn't understand; I wasn't supporting the policy. Its just if you execute someone you should at least make it a deterent to others. I have never supported the death penalty myself.

I'm not agreeing with the judge's decision. I don't know what went on in their heads during their decision making process. She had 4kg of dope in her bag. Her defence couldn't provide enough evidence to the judges to persuade them it wasn't hers. If you had 4kg of drugs in your house & the police discovered it, the onus would be on you to prove that you had nothing to do with it. Otherwise, I expect you too would be found guilty in a court of law.

We had a case like that in WA.

I don't care what people say, she is obviosly innocent.
Some friends were telling me the other day she's guilty because it's a bit obvious to notice your bag bulging with drugs when it gets of the plane but if you opened your bag and found a whole heap of drugs in your bag would you just carry that right up to the indonision officials, knowing the punishment for smuggling drugs. She may have got off if she did do that but can you think straight in situations like that?

Poor girl, she is so clearly innocent. Even though I am in America, I have tried to follow this case as best I could, and I'm frankly a bit shocked that Australia has not stepped in for one of it's own, when she has been so clearly framed and the evidence so blatantly planted.


Australia has stepped, we have tried to get Indonesia to give send her back. But it's Indonesia's choice on whether they want her back or not, we can't force them they are one of our neighbouring countries. Plus Indonesia might want to keep her there as a clear example of what happens to drug smugglers, guilty or not. Her sentence might discourage future drug smugglers.

In case you didn't understand; I wasn't supporting the policy. Its just if you execute someone you should at least make it a deterent to others. I have never supported the death penalty myself.

I knew you are just making a point and wasn't serious.
I was just taking the chance to express my believe against the death penalty. ;)

I am little curious as to why she would want to smuggle stuff INTO Bali. How would you make a profit doing that?

Then again, I'm not a smuggler...

Maybe. ;)

I'm not agreeing with the judge's decision. I don't know what went on in their heads during their decision making process. She had 4kg of dope in her bag. Her defence couldn't provide enough evidence to the judges to persuade them it wasn't hers. If you had 4kg of drugs in your house & the police discovered it, the onus would be on you to prove that you had nothing to do with it. Otherwise, I expect you too would be found guilty in a court of law.
It wasnt in her house it was in luggage which many people had access to.

I am little curious as to why she would want to smuggle stuff INTO Bali. How would you make a profit doing that?

Then again, I'm not a smuggler...

Maybe. ;)

Damn right!
THEY send it to us where theres a profit, we don't send it to them! That's like trying to sell something to a wholesale company.

It wasnt in her house it was in luggage which many people had access to.

Yes, I know it was in her luggage. I was just trying show an analagous situation. Perhaps a friend of yours could have put it in your house because he didn't want to leave it at his place? What I'm saying is that Schappelle's defence didn't provide enough evidence to the judge's to show that the drugs in her possession (in her luggage) were not hers & had been put there by someone else.

Wasn't a scan done when when she was boarding the plane from Australia?

Wasn't a scan done when when she was boarding the plane from Australia?

They scan for weapons/bombs, I don't think they really scan for drugs. Not too sure about that.

Wasn't a scan done when when she was boarding the plane from Australia?

Um...not sure, I think they do the x-rays over in the other country. When you're coming into a country they check, when you're leaving a country they just wiegh the bags and have sniffer dogs.

They scan for weapons/bombs, I don't think they really scan for drugs. Not too sure about that.

Unless you're going into Australia, all they do is scan bags you are taking onto planes. But whatever you take into another country is that other country's problem.

But it's Indonesia's choice on whether they want her back or not, we can't force them they are one of our neighbouring countries.

sure you can. fuck those murderous bastards and their sham legal system.

Abuse human rights? Which ones?
...
Commit genocide? The only case I can think of is in Aceh during the Suharto dictatorship. Times have changed.

yeah, they sure treat aceh nice these days. and west papua too. and when east timor finally got to have its freedom, they totally refrained from arming and training the paramilitaries and sending in official indonesian troops to slaughter people and burn villages.

fuck indonesia.

I think the way people are acting over this is atrocious.
Theres something like 26 australians in gaol for drug traffiking in all of southeast asia, why focus on this one girl? (rhetorical, answer= young, pretty, cries alot, parents agreed to contract with channel 9)
Now the prime ministers offering two commenwealth laywers to help her appeal case. But all the other australians dont get shit?

And its horrible that channel 9 made such a mockery of her pain by making a show where australians vote in what they think of Schapelle's case, guilty or innocent, as if they think what australians filled with slanted news coverage will think will change the outcome of anything.

This is truely horrible, if shes innocent or not it is not up to us to decide, we are not well informed nor up to date with the legal system of indonesia as the judges are.

This is truely horrible, if shes innocent or not it is not up to us to decide, we are not well informed nor up to date with the legal system of indonesia as the judges are.

but since human rights watch and other organizations have been calling bullshit on the indonesian legal system for years, does it really matter what they think?

I think that many people must see the light of day and that's that Schapelle Corby was found with over 4kg of marijuana in her BAG. Her lawyers couldn't effectively disprove this so the Australian government cooks up some half-cock story about "corrupt baggage-handlers." How very convenient.

but since human rights watch and other organizations have been calling bullshit on the indonesian legal system for years, does it really matter what they think?

Does it really matter what the judes think or the himan rights people? I couldnt really understand your question but ill assume your asking does it really matter what the judges think.


Yes, it does matter, its their country, and and their county's government obvioesly sees fit in them enough to let them decide who lives, who dies and who goes to prison.
And as much as you might not like it, we have no right to tell them how to run their legal system. Im sure you wouldnt like it if some other country wa telling you who was innocent and who wasnt regardless of the simple fact, that the other country does not have to deal with the consequences.

Her lawyers couldn't effectively disprove this so the Australian government cooks up some half-cock story about "corrupt baggage-handlers." How very convenient.

Actually, i dont think the australian government would arrest a bunch of baggage handlers and confiscate a bunch of money and drugs from their houses just to give Corby's defence team an angle.
Call me pesimistic, but i am.

yeah, they sure treat aceh nice these days. and west papua too. and when east timor finally got to have its freedom, they totally refrained from arming and training the paramilitaries and sending in official indonesian troops to slaughter people and burn villages.

fuck indonesia.

Considering GAM is a bunch of Islamic murders, I think the Indos should treat them harshly. The attrocities in Aceh in recent times aren't caused by the military but GAM.

I haven't heard on any attrocities in West Papua.

And there is no evidence connecting Indonesia to what happened in East Timor.

Agree with everything VanDemansLand has said. We have no right to try to interfere with Indonesias legal system, no matter how much crap about it being inadequate, fledgling, corrupt etc. Its what Indonesia has and it is what Corby has to deal with. Calls on our government to intervene are borderline insane.

The only reason why she got 20yrs & not the life sentence was because of the ridiculous media coverage.

And it is simply too coincidental that three other family members of corbys' have been charged with drugs offences previously here in Australia. The situation is f#cked.

I kept hearing that 'there wasn't enough evidence to proove her innocence' I thought you just had to proove you weren't guilty? Personally I thought there was enough doubt, but there you have it.

I kept hearing that 'there wasn't enough evidence to proove her innocence' I thought you just had to proove you weren't guilty? Personally I thought there was enough doubt, but there you have it.

Even in an Australian court she could have quite possibly been found guilty.

There was a lot of evidence against Corby; and the defence failed to create enough doubt about this evidence. The level of reasonable doubt is higher in Indonesia than Australia.

Agree with everything VanDemansLand has said. We have no right to try to interfere with Indonesias legal system, no matter how much crap about it being inadequate, fledgling, corrupt etc. Its what Indonesia has and it is what Corby has to deal with. Calls on our government to intervene are borderline insane.

I'm not referring specifically to the case at hand (I don't know enough about it), but if you wish to end oppression anywhere, it follows that it should be ended everywhere regardless of geographical location or political affiliation. It's not that you must merely pretect your countrymen when theyare the victims of a corrupt system; you should extend that hand to all of humanity. Anything less is merely a sign of a highly flawed moral view, IMHO.

I'm not referring specifically to the case at hand (I don't know enough about it), but if you wish to end oppression anywhere, it follows that it should be ended everywhere regardless of geographical location or political affiliation. It's not that you must merely pretect your countrymen when theyare the victims of a corrupt system; you should extend that hand to all of humanity. Anything less is merely a sign of a highly flawed moral view, IMHO.

Totally agree.

I'll just butt in for a sec to say it's nice to see justice served. Thats all I'll say. If you got problems I'll come back and explain.

I don't have any way of knowing, but since marijuana is dried plant material it will take a fairly large package to make 4 kg. I'm picturing a package the size of a small laser printer.

That takes a lot of room in luggage which is usually fairly full of clothing, etc. So not only is she in possession but she didn't notice her bag being 10 pounds heavier? Why was she traveling with a large-ish suitcase with enough room in her bag to fit a large object.

I have human sympathy for the lady and I hope that she gets a fair hearing, but I can see where the court will question her argument that someone placed the goods in her bag.

I don't have any way of knowing, but since marijuana is dried plant material it will take a fairly large package to make 4 kg. I'm picturing a package the size of a small laser printer.

pretty good assumption

That takes a lot of room in luggage which is usually fairly full of clothing, etc. So not only is she in possession but she didn't notice her bag being 10 pounds heavier? Why was she traveling with a large-ish suitcase with enough room in her bag to fit a large object.

it was in a boogy board bag and her step brother was the one that carried it to customs

I have human sympathy for the lady and I hope that she gets a fair hearing, but I can see where the court will question her argument that someone placed the goods in her bag.
agreed

Drug smugglers should not get any sympathy for long prison terms. Were we supposed to feel extreme sadness over the guy caught in Turkey in the movie "Midnight Express"?

Granted, she was on indonesian territory, and was caught with a Class 1 substance in her possession, but truthfully, 20 years for little over 4 kilogrammes is a bit excessive, in my opinion, and in truth, Indonesia is a hotbed of corruption and piracy (of the most literal type) even in the 21st century.

Drug smugglers should not get any sympathy for long prison terms. Were we supposed to feel extreme sadness over the guy caught in Turkey in the movie "Midnight Express"?
Agreed, but if they had so much doubt as to give her such a light sentance she should have been found innocent if they were so sure she was guilty she would/should have got life

They should smoother them in pig fat if they must execute them, that "prevents their souls going to heaven."

Three words: pork-tipped bullets.

I say the Aussies should get the SAS to extract her. And blow some shit up while doing so.

Thats a travesty of justice! I don't understand why the Australian Gov't hasn't just smuggled her out of the country and back home. Its not like Indonesia would have a leg to stand on and complain. I'm c'mon, they abuse human rights and harbour terrorists, commit genocide. Fuck em.. If anyone did any real investigating they'd probably find the Judge complcit in abbetting drug manufacturers and smugglers himself. Corruption isn't a problem in the Indonesian system, it IS the Indonesian system.

1. If smuggled back, she would get locked up in Baxter :)
2. We commited genocide.
3. No this is probably one of the few clean judges in Indonesia

1. If smuggled back, she would get locked up in Baxter :)
2. We commited genocide.
3. No this is probably one of the few clean judges in Indonesia
1. :D
2. Our ancestors attempted to and failed
3. no such creature :p

I think the way people are acting over this is atrocious.
Theres something like 26 australians in gaol for drug traffiking in all of southeast asia, why focus on this one girl? (rhetorical, answer= young, pretty, cries alot, parents agreed to contract with channel 9)
Now the prime ministers offering two commenwealth laywers to help her appeal case. But all the other australians dont get shit?

And its horrible that channel 9 made such a mockery of her pain by making a show where australians vote in what they think of Schapelle's case, guilty or innocent, as if they think what australians filled with slanted news coverage will think will change the outcome of anything.

This is truely horrible, if shes innocent or not it is not up to us to decide, we are not well informed nor up to date with the legal system of indonesia as the judges are.
Why does everyone say she is pretty?

1. :D
2. Our ancestors attempted to and failed
3. no such creature :p

No, the tasmanians settleres wiped out the Tasmanian Aboriginals a few centuries ago. With the support of Church and State
This judge sentenced one of the Bali bombers to death, and can not afford to play golf in Bali, so he is not corrupt.
Besides you fuck up in another country, the other country tries you.
That reminds of a story I heard about a rock spider trying to get deported because of a loophole in his his country's child molestation laws, he would get off due to the vicitm's age. the prison system stopped that though. Criminals hated rock spiders.

No, the tasmanians settleres wiped out the Tasmanian Aboriginals a few centuries ago. With the support of Church and State
This judge sentenced one of the Bali bombers to death, and can not afford to play golf in Bali, so he is not corrupt.
Besides you fuck up in another country, the other country tries you.
That reminds of a story I heard about a rock spider trying to get deported because of a loophole in his his country's child molestation laws, he would get off due to the vicitm's age. the prison system stopped that though. Criminals hated rock spiders.
I thought we disowned Tasmania all tucked away up there

Sorry it was a poor attempt to lighten the mood

Again I wast alive back then so you cant hold it against the current generation. I always said the church was evil

I say the Aussies should get the SAS to extract her. And blow some shit up while doing so.

Yes lets attack a nation six times bigger than us. :rolleyes:

you guys probably shouldnt plan on careers in international diplomacy.

mr howard is letting the indonesian government keep face by going along with their laws and their judgements. you dont get good results by dissing the country you are asking a favor from.

once the publicity has died down and she has served a few years, the australian govt can get her released on humanitarian grounds. this will make the indonesians look like heros.

What are the facts in this case. Everything I have heard seems to indicate that for her to be smuggling 4 kilos of pot was unlikely.

Surely some reporters have done some investigating back in Australia. What's the situation? Generally there is a good gut/circumstantial feeling about the case. I am under the impression that the "gut" is innocent.

If so, I would not step foot in Indonesia for any reason, nor donate any money to the country if I could help it. To be honest, the whole situation has already sworn me off of ever travelling to the country.

I'd prefer Europe and Australia where I would believe that generally the rules are similar to what I could expect here in the U.S.

I don't know what 4k's of pot would get you in the states, but I can't imagine on a first offense that it would be more than a few years. I refuse to be a part of grossly intolerant countries. If a political/religious belief system is that there is no warning, or mild punishment, for a first time offense of a crime that doesn't directly hurt anyone, then it's a wide, wide world and I'll visit other places.

-Tom Steele

Heck its on AOL here in the states. If enough publicity gets put on it to attract American government attention and it starts to press on Indonesia along with Australia. If Indonesia would like to maintain good relations with America and benefit from the growth of economy then they might release the girl. Or they look like monsters and other nations cease aiding them leaving them alone to deal with all their problems. Their nation would surely collapse and then be overthrown.

Wouldnt be to hard to see Indonesia buckle and release the girl.

Heck its on AOL here in the states. If enough publicity gets put on it to attract American government attention and it starts to press on Indonesia along with Australia. If Indonesia would like to maintain good relations with America and benefit from the growth of economy then they might release the girl. Or they look like monsters and other nations cease aiding them leaving them alone to deal with all their problems. Their nation would surely collapse and then be overthrown.

Wouldnt be to hard to see Indonesia buckle and release the girl.

I doubt that Indonesia will just let a convicted drug trafficker go free, I doubt any governments will collapse, and considering that executions tend to be associated with drug trafficking in SE Asia I doubt 20 years will cause an end to international relations.

Why does everyone say she is pretty?

Because shes a welcome change to the usual ugly old guy drug trafficker.

Because shes a welcome change to the usual ugly old guy drug trafficker.
Speak for yourself, we got better produce at school ;) :D

To be perfectly honest 20 years is to light for such an act
BUT i dont believe she did it!
I have a deep distrust for Indonesia and its Judicial system remember the guy that was convicted of the Club Bombings got jack all and youd think they would show a bit of love towards Strya after the Tsunami but no thier memorories are too short for that!-Mind you that would be a form of coruption but then again the whole place is a cest pit of evil.

There may be a market for foreigners smuggling drugs into Indonesia.

If an Indonesian is selling drugs, the buyer has no real of knowing if the dealer is not an undercover police officer, on the other hand, if the dealer is Australian, then he/she's not an undercover police officer.

I think she's probably innocent, but the arrest occurred in Indonesia & we have to let the Indonesion justice system deal with it, much as we may or may not disagree with it. If the situation was reversed & an Indonesion was caught with 4kg of dope at Melbourne airport, we would expect that s/he would be convicted of drug smuggling.

I find some of the opinions expressed here to be rather interesting. Particularly the ones that call for the use of armed forces within a sovereign nations borders for military purposes. In this case, extraction of a convicted prisoner who was sentenced according to the laws of the place.

At last look, that was only one step below outright war.

Perhaps the next time a foreigner is detained by Australian authorities they will cheer the intervention of armed soldiers extracting said foreigner and to quote a certain someone, "blow some stuff up while they were at it".

Isn't hypocrisy wonderful?

You may disagree with the judgment, you may argue that it is unfair. But when you condone an international incident for something like this, be prepared to recieve apathy if the reverse happens to you.

I find some of the opinions expressed here to be rather interesting. Particularly the ones that call for the use of armed forces within a sovereign nations borders for military purposes. In this case, extraction of a convicted prisoner who was sentenced according to the laws of the place.

At last look, that was only one step below outright war.

Perhaps the next time a foreigner is detained by Australian authorities they will cheer the intervention of armed soldiers extracting said foreigner and to quote a certain someone, "blow some stuff up while they were at it".

Isn't hypocrisy wonderful?

You may disagree with the judgment, you may argue that it is unfair. But when you condone an international incident for something like this, be prepared to recieve apathy if the reverse happens to you.

the difference being that amnesty international's report on indonesia (http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/indonesia/document.do?id=70CA1A2795329C2580256E9E005A970C) uses phrases like:

"Indonesia enjoyed a year of relative political and economic stability, but a lack of political will and pervasive corruption inhibited progress in key areas, including reform of the law and the judiciary."
and
"The report of the UN Special Rapporteur on the independence of judges and lawyers' visit to Indonesia in July 2002 was published. The report expressed extreme concern about the lack of a culture of judicial independence and of widespread corruption in the judiciary, police, prosecutors' offices and the Office of the Attorney General."

add to that their flat out unwillingness to prosecute their human rights abusers or extradite people involve in the massacres in east timor and their contuning crimes in aceh and west papua, and frankly you are left with no reason to care at all about what their legal system says about anything. as human rights watch says (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/01/13/indone9823.htm):

"The Indonesian armed forces (Tentara Nasional Indonesia, TNI) continues to violate international human rights and humanitarian law with almost complete impunity. Military operations in Papua and Aceh provinces continue to be characterized by undisciplined and unaccountable troops committing widespread abuses against civilians. Abuses include extra-judicial executions, forced disappearances, beatings, arbitrary arrests and detentions, and drastic limits on freedom of movement.
Torture of detainees in police and military custody is also widespread across the archipelago.
Indonesia’s executive and judicial branches regularly fail to address such abuses. Indonesia's judiciary in particular is corrupt and subject to political interference."

basically, fuck indonesia.

A poor record is not an indicator of not an honest judicial agent on the courts. Blanket statements in use against a country, even when you have records of poor levels of fairness in the judicial system, means you condemn every single person there, regardless of their own actions.

Does that mean I am justified by looking at certain elements of the Australian political parties and saying that every single one is a complete isolationist espousing racist?

You forejudge the judge without actually looking at him. Additionally, if you use the innocent until guilty outlook, you have to apply the same thing to each and every judicial agent in this case until corruption is proven. Saying that they are so is moot.

Unless you are sure that they are corrupt that is, in which case you should do your civil duty and prove it.

Can you?

A poor record is not an indicator of not an honest judicial agent on the courts. Blanket statements in use against a country, even when you have records of poor levels of fairness in the judicial system, means you condemn every single person there, regardless of their own actions.

Does that mean I am justified by looking at certain elements of the Australian political parties and saying that every single one is a complete isolationist espousing racist?

You forejudge the judge without actually looking at him. Additionally, if you use the innocent until guilty outlook, you have to apply the same thing to each and every judicial agent in this case until corruption is proven. Saying that they are so is moot.

Unless you are sure that they are corrupt that is, in which case you should do your civil duty and prove it.

Can you?

Hear hear.

Anyone who thinks the armed forces should bust in and free her...well...because our government thinks that would be right, and she wouldn't get a sentence if she was here (which is debatable) should consider, what if fundamentalist muslim countries sent commandos in to rescue terrorists from American prisons?
Well, perhaps they have tried. Do we think that's a good, proper, and right thing to do? Or should they send diplomats to negotiate.

Honestly, how can we expect to run our country with our own laws, if other countries bully them? If Indonesia backed down because Australia was up in arms, I'd be dissapointed. Let someone they believe to be a drug smugger free to avoid media? Sheesh!
Well, in that case I'm buying up the tv stations and joining the mafia.

She was convicted of a crime, and is serving the punishment. The correct thing to do, which I'm sure is happening, is for Australian diplomats to speak on her account, and see she gets as much fair treatment as possible, while gathering evidence or support so she is released. According to international standards.
If we just strongarm other countries into doing what we want, then we have NO hope of any sort of peace or progress in that country, unless we stand over them as international policemen. And that's not our international role.

I don't know if she's guilty or not, but I hope that the australians over there DO know, and if she's innocent, I hope they see that she gets fair treatment while there, and works to have her released early.

Also, to my limited understanding, I did hear something about the Aust govt. let the case go ahead, but look over it to make sure that she got a fair trial. I don't know if that happened, but I assume we did have observers there, and would politically be screaming blue murder if it was as corrupt as people seem to think.

Also, to my limited understanding, I did hear something about the Aust govt. let the case go ahead, but look over it to make sure that she got a fair trial. I don't know if that happened, but I assume we did have observers there, and would politically be screaming blue murder if it was as corrupt as people seem to think.

with as much media scrutiny as they were getting, it was probably the fairest trial indonesia has ever seen. doesn't change my position, even assuming she is guilty as charged - fuck those corrupt authoritarian bastards, and fuck the ridiculous war on drugs.

additionally, i haven't been calling for the australian state to do anything about it either. i hope she does get busted out of jail (along with numerous others stuck in jails all over the world), but you won't here me calling for the state to send in commandos.

additionally, i haven't been calling for the australian state to do anything about it either. i hope she does get busted out of jail (along with numerous others stuck in jails all over the world), but you won't here me calling for the state to send in commandos.

Your term 'along with numerous others' brings forth an interesting question. What numerous others?

If you mean every Australian citizen to be held in a foreign jail, then that means that in the interests of equality, the ones being held in Australian prisons on similar charges should also be released. Otherwise it sends a rather strong message that Australia has no interests in following the judicial system of other countries whatsoever. Which means that Australia would have no moral right to impose their laws on foreigners either.

Or perhaps you mean to say that only an Australian jail has the right to hold an Australian born criminal regardless where they committed the crime and were apprehended? But you mentioned the term 'out of jail', so I will make an assumption that you mean their crime is not really a crime and does not warrant a prison sentence.

Or perhaps you believe that they are all innocent of their crimes. In which case, if you are absolutely sure of it, then you should go and arrange their release by proving their innocence to the courts. It is after all, your civil duty.

So once again. I ask you this.

Can you?

Logic before emotion.

My thoughts? The only reason she would smuggle that much dope is if she was planning to sell it. Why would she want to sell drugs in Indonesia when she would never be able to sell at half the price she could at Australia? Not only that, it's obviously more risky to smuggle drugs into Indonesia then to keep them in Australia where should would have gotten them if she was smuggling them at all.

I say something is fishy. I might be biased since I'm thoroughly western and she's kind of cute, but I doubt it.

the media aren't telling you that her sister and her sister's husband live in indonesia and the westerners their prefer buying from other westerners.
the police aren't sympathetic because she's probabli being noted as a possible drug smuggler

I'm renown for my extreme views (not here, heck with 10 posts i ain't even started...) and one of the things i've always said is that drugs should be legalised. I'm not a crackhead either, but the way i see it, kids only take the stuff because its illegal, You legailise it, it's boring just like everything else, so then they stop taking it, people stop smuggling it, everyones happy, and the government can get high and sort their issues out.

As i said, extreme, but it my twisted mind it would work.

The problem with drugs is that: Once you start, you can't stop.

Because shes a welcome change to the usual ugly old guy drug trafficker.
just because she is young and female doesnt make her pretty

Your term 'along with numerous others' brings forth an interesting question. What numerous others?

for a start, everyone in prison as a political prisoner. followed by nearly everyone in on immigration violations. followed by pretty much everyone in on drug offenses. and then a good chunk of the people in for non-violent crimes. that'd be a pretty good start - not the end though. prisons do not and cannot work. as emma goldman said, they are a social crime and a failure.

Or perhaps you mean to say that only an Australian jail has the right to hold an Australian born criminal regardless where they committed the crime and were apprehended?

i should probably mention that i'm not australian. and i certainly don't think that the state someone was born under has any special right to incarcerate them.

The problem with drugs is that: Once you start, you can't stop.

yeah! damn that evil tylenol, it has stolen my life from me.

for a start, everyone in prison as a political prisoner. followed by nearly everyone in on immigration violations. followed by pretty much everyone in on drug offenses. and then a good chunk of the people in for non-violent crimes. that'd be a pretty good start - not the end though. prisons do not and cannot work. as emma goldman said, they are a social crime and a failure.

You realize that this would mean releasing a fair number of prisoners in whatever country you live in? I imagine that people would be rather unhappy that scam artists, extortionists, thieves, bank robbers (who have not committed violence during the crime itself but threatened to do so), corrupted politicians caught in the act and numerous other criminals would be let free.

And before you can even consider doing this sort of action, you must stop additional crimes in the first place. How do you propose to do that? I am sure that many governments would welcome a way to stop them from happening.

Many crimes, when they are not impulse crimes based on emotion, are usually based on the age old creed of acquiring something that does not belong to you, be it the removal of competition, the obtaining of resources or otherwise. Do you have a perfect system that eliminates this sort of reasoning?

Otherwise, what you propose is hardly realistic.


i should probably mention that i'm not australian. and i certainly don't think that the state someone was born under has any special right to incarcerate them.

From the way you post things, it seems that you believe the state has no right to enforce laws governing the treatment of criminals whatsoever. That sounds..........anarchist.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15419150-2,00.html

I don't imagine this will mean much to those who aren't from Australia or Indonesia, but Schapelle Corby has been sentenced to 20 years imprisonment for the alleged attempted smuggling of 4.1 kilograms into Bali. I'm not exactly surprised by the decision considering the judge in question who was presiding over the case has never given a not-guilty verdict before, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on the case.

I'm not exactly sure how I should react to this entire affair personally. I think 20 years imprisonment is ridiculously extreme for 4.1 kilos, especially considering Abu Bakar Bashir, the head of the militant group Jamah Islamiah only got a fraction of that sentence, but then again, you go to the country, you obey their laws.

Well... i was wondering how long it'd take for this to get on here... so my opinion is:

I'm sick of the way almost the entire Australian public assumes she 's innocent. Think about it guys, she could very likely be guilty... yes, i just said it... just cause she's a young white woman, doesn't mean she's not stupid enough to try smuggling dope into bali

20 years is a bit harsh but considering the death penalty could be applicable, really quite nice of them and if she's guilty, she should have thought about that first...

And i think it's crazy how much coverage she's got on the news and papers etc.... Im pretty sure i ead somewhere (correct me if i'm wrong) that there are 3 other Aussies on death row in South east Asia... but... they're not young white women, so no one thinks their decision is wrong....

But seriously, none of us know enough about it to make a good decision, all we hear is what the media is feeding us...

I've reconsidered my opinion. She deserves what she got for going there. I wouldn't go to Indonesia if it were the last place on earth. (I realize that made no sense, but you get my drift - hopefully.)

Therefore, I submit to the "it couldn't possibly happen to me because I wouldn't go there" form of denial and now this no longer affects me.

As a general rule, I go to civilized nations (and France) when I travel overseas. So I should be safe.

-Tom Steele

I'm sick of the way almost the entire Australian public assumes she 's innocent. Think about it guys, she could very likely be guilty... yes, i just said it... just cause she's a young white woman, doesn't mean she's not stupid enough to try smuggling dope into bali

But seriously, none of us know enough about it to make a good decision, all we hear is what the media is feeding us...

What IS the media feeding you? I don't know what the media is like in Australia, but here in the good ole USA where the First Amendment remains one of the few amednments that is actually in use, the media would have done some serious investigating.

We'd know if she was likely to have been involved in that sort of thing or not. In a case like this, background and circumstantial evidence is huge. We know they claim to have found the pot in her bag. So, does she have past arrests or convicitions that make it likely that she is guilty? Is she a saint that this is way out of character for?

What is the skinny? What little coverage I've seen makes you feel like two things have happened:

A. A person who is unlikely to have been involved in this was wrongly convicted.

B. A kangaroo court convicted her.

I tend to distrust the Indonesian legal system. They look like a corrupt backwater province to me, so I tend to side with the civilized country. But I could be wrong, I just don't have much info to go on. You live there, what is the deal?

-Tom Steele

Well I'm doing a little research and this thread is full of disinformation.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20050530.A03&irec=2

The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

"Corby was found guilty of attempting to smuggle 4.1 kilograms of marijuana through the Denpasar airport in October. Compare her verdict with what other foreigners have received in Bali, and one has to admit that she has had the harshest punishment of all when compared to other similar cases.

A Mexican woman who smuggled 15.22 kg of marijuana received only a seven-year prison term in December 2001. An Italian man was sentenced to 15 years in July last year for attempting to smuggle 5.3 kg of cocaine, a much more dangerous drug. Corby did not smuggle cocaine and the amount of marijuana she was accused of smuggling is far less than what the Mexican woman brought in. Yet, she got a harsher sentence."


According to this very detailed site: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schapelle_Corby the smuggling ring was not importing drugs to Indonesia, but elsewhere in Australia.

John Patrick Ford, a remand prisoner in Port Phillip Prison, Australia, has given evidence in Corby's defence. Ford previously worked as a public servant for the (Australian) Child Support Agency (CSA), a department of the Australian Taxation Office, before his conviction.

Ford stated that he overheard a conversation within a prison between two men and alleges one of the men planted the marijuana in Corby's boogie board bag in Brisbane with the intent of having another person remove it in Sydney. Ford went on to state that a simple mixup resulted in the marijuana not being removed and subsequently being transported to Indonesia, all without Corby's knowledge. Once in Indonesia the marijuana was quickly located by Indonesian customs officials

Other travellers have claimed that in past years they found drugs in their baggage when arriving in Bali. The Australian consulate has confirmed that these travellers reported the problem. (Sydney Morning Herald)

I found this link interesting as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Currell

Chris Currell is an Australian citizen who was imprisoned in Bali, Indonesia in 2004 for planning to export 70,000 ephedrine tablets, a base ingredient in the manufacture of methamphetamine, to Australia in 2004 as well as ephedrine tablets that had been ground into powder.

Currell was arrested in an operation which saw several others arrested in Australia involving Australian Federal Police and Indonesian police. Currell was prosecuted under Indonesian pharmaceutical control law, which differs from 'Category 1 narcotics law' restricting marijuana, heroin and cocaine trafficking and possession. Currell faced a maximum 15 year sentence.

Currell was eventually found guilty of the minor charge of acting as an unlicensed pharmacist for having ground the ephedrine tablets, and given a six month sentence.

-Tom Steele

Hawkintom']What IS the media feeding you?-Tom Steele

my friend brought me t the fact the media supress things. she said that the shooting reported a while ago wasn't the onli one that happened that day. apparentli her brother was at a club and someone was shot. nothing was shown in the news. sbs is better than commercial news.

Hawkintom']...
B. A kangaroo court convicted her.

I tend to distrust the Indonesian legal system. They look like a corrupt backwater province to me, so I tend to side with the civilized country. But I could be wrong, I just don't have much info to go on. You live there, what is the deal?

-Tom Steele

As an Australian I actually have a high regard for the Indonesia legal system.

There is corruption in Indonesia, but that generally involves getting the guilty found innocent than vis versa. Plus corruption is to be expected in a poor country; and there is more than enough in Australia, eg Victorian Police Force.

Corby's case is comparable to many in Australia, which had guilty verdicts. This includes a high profile case of an elderly couple who's son ADMITTED the drugs were his and they were still convicted.

I feel the punishments are harsh, but most Australians believe punishments here are too soft.

Hawkintom']What IS the media feeding you? I don't know what the media is like in Australia, but here in the good ole USA where the First Amendment remains one of the few amednments that is actually in use, the media would have done some serious investigating.

We'd know if she was likely to have been involved in that sort of thing or not. In a case like this, background and circumstantial evidence is huge. We know they claim to have found the pot in her bag. So, does she have past arrests or convicitions that make it likely that she is guilty? Is she a saint that this is way out of character for?

What is the skinny? What little coverage I've seen makes you feel like two things have happened:

A. A person who is unlikely to have been involved in this was wrongly convicted.

B. A kangaroo court convicted her.

I tend to distrust the Indonesian legal system. They look like a corrupt backwater province to me, so I tend to side with the civilized country. But I could be wrong, I just don't have much info to go on. You live there, what is the deal?

-Tom Steele

The media has gone crazy over here so much that when i said in my classroom "she might be guilty you know" I got glares from most of the class, and people arguing and saying im heartless etc.... and even my teacher got ivolved and said that she was certain that Corby was innocent. When i asked why, the main reply was "how could she be guilty? she looks so innocent, you obviously haven't watched enough of the case..." damn straight i haven't cause if i did then chances are i'd be sucked in by her tears aswell...

even the Australian Govt has gone into dangerous waters by focussing so much attention on her IMHO

You're right, the evidence seemed quite plain to me... she had pot in her bag... i mean if in Australia we had someone come over from Indonesia with drugs in their bag and the only defence they could put up was "Well someone back in Jakarta could have put it in there... I t wouldn't hold, believe me...

And now on the news i just heard that someone has sent some biological something or other to the Indonesian Embassy in Aust...

But then again, she may be innocent... how could i know?

Yeah a lot of people are influenced by the tearful "Please...*sniff*...don't you think that 6 months of jail is sufficient enough for the crime of not having put locks on my bag?" or whatever she said. I'm not paying her out, or condemning her as guilty; but not as innocent either for that matter; for the simple reason that the only news we've heard about it has come from the media, and if you think the media gives an unbiased report, you're blind. If anyone was facing the death penalty or even 20 years' jail, they'd be crying too. It just seems so naive to be saying, "she looks innocent so she must be."

I'm afraid i cannot comment on whether she is innocent or guilty because I don't know enough about the case.
I wholehartedly agree with the people who say that diplomatic steps should be taken, its the only real civil method in my opinion.
In regards to the sentence it doesn't seem quite so harsh as it first looks, where I live if your caught selling dope the sentence can be upto 2 years but dope is a class C drug. Indoneasian law says that dope is "A class 1 substance". Where I live you could get 10 - 15 years if the amount was large enough. In Indonesia this might be considered a "large amount".
The state of prisons there on the other hand I don't have a great deal of faith in.

well theres my 2 cents

Agreed, but if they had so much doubt as to give her such a light sentance she should have been found innocent if they were so sure she was guilty she would/should have got life

The MOVIE made it look that people should have sympathy: he only got caught, no? He didn't do anything wrong, no?
Still in that movie, there was no doubt about him being guilty: he wanted to make "a profit" while leaving Turkey, but got caught on turkish soil.
And yes, they had him escape and such, and much whining about his punishment being too severe.

Well, in some parts of USA people are murdered by the government, because they happened to kill the wrong person (from each 20 executions, how many were for killers of a black man? Or of a poor one?)

So each country has its set of "light" and "heavy" punishments, and people CAN know those before they go over there.

If the indonesian judge believed evidence presented for her guilt, how COULD he let her go ? Or even give her a lighter punishment?

And if the judge were "bought", wouldn't that show clearly, when journalists honestly compared other judgements in "similar" cases?

Sending in troops is for cold-war movies, not for real life. Else, the other governments should allow Indonesia to send in troops liberating indonesians from their prisons too, no?
And if you allow Australia to intervene in a judicial system on other territory, why not India, and China, and Cuba ? Or the Netherlands, with their perception of marihuana USE, or Belgium, with its perception of what are "crimes against humanity" ?

The state of prisons there on the other hand I don't have a great deal of faith in.


Well they can't let the condition be better than in the of Indonesia could they?

You're right, the evidence seemed quite plain to me... she had pot in her bag... i mean if in Australia we had someone come over from Indonesia with drugs in their bag and the only defence they could put up was "Well someone back in Jakarta could have put it in there... I t wouldn't hold, believe me...

Not it wouldn't hold, it hasn't held. Someone else can confess here and you can still be found guilty.

If anyone was facing the death penalty or even 20 years' jail, they'd be crying too.

Just look at the Bali Nine, Renee looked innocent, with the exception of all the drugs strapped to her body.


Names we should remember before mentioning Corby:
John Button
Darryl Raymond Beamish
The Mickleberg Brothers
Lyndie Chamberline
And others wrongfully convicted by the Australian system, many still inside

The MOVIE made it look that people should have sympathy: he only got caught, no? He didn't do anything wrong, no?
Still in that movie, there was no doubt about him being guilty: he wanted to make "a profit" while leaving Turkey, but got caught on turkish soil.
And yes, they had him escape and such, and much whining about his punishment being too severe.

Well, in some parts of USA people are murdered by the government, because they happened to kill the wrong person (from each 20 executions, how many were for killers of a black man? Or of a poor one?)

So each country has its set of "light" and "heavy" punishments, and people CAN know those before they go over there.

If the indonesian judge believed evidence presented for her guilt, how COULD he let her go ? Or even give her a lighter punishment?

And if the judge were "bought", wouldn't that show clearly, when journalists honestly compared other judgements in "similar" cases?

Sending in troops is for cold-war movies, not for real life. Else, the other governments should allow Indonesia to send in troops liberating indonesians from their prisons too, no?
And if you allow Australia to intervene in a judicial system on other territory, why not India, and China, and Cuba ? Or the Netherlands, with their perception of marihuana USE, or Belgium, with its perception of what are "crimes against humanity" ?
What has any of that got to with what I said or this case? We are not talking about some movie.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15419150-2,00.html

I don't imagine this will mean much to those who aren't from Australia or Indonesia, but Schapelle Corby has been sentenced to 20 years imprisonment for the alleged attempted smuggling of 4.1 kilograms into Bali. I'm not exactly surprised by the decision considering the judge in question who was presiding over the case has never given a not-guilty verdict before, but I'd be interested in your thoughts on the case.

I'm not exactly sure how I should react to this entire affair personally. I think 20 years imprisonment is ridiculously extreme for 4.1 kilos, especially considering Abu Bakar Bashir, the head of the militant group Jamah Islamiah only got a fraction of that sentence, but then again, you go to the country, you obey their laws.

For reference, I am Australian born and bred, living in Germany.
My thoughts are that Schapelle may or may not be guilty, (how could anyone learn the truth from the media coverage?) but having the stuff in her bag doesn't look good for her. If I was the judge, I would be more likely to believe she would be guilty than innocent. Although I know that every good justice system assumes innocence until proven guilty. I certainly wouldn't give her such a long sentence without clearing away the doubt first. But given the state of Indonesia's justice system, where too many people get away with too much, it's no wonder they hit hard on those they do catch.

I sincerely hope the media buzz and the severity of this case results in protecting many others of our young people, both from having their bags spiked (i.e. guilty only of carelessness), and from willingly engaging in a quick but risky way of earning a few bucks.
If she is innocent......that's another injustice in this tired old world.

Here's my two bobs worth ...

1. Remove the question of Corby's actual guilt or otherwise from the equasion (Let's face it, we don't know) and ask yourself this _ Did the prosecution case prove her guilty, beyond reasonable doubt, of smuggling drugs into Indonesia? Only an emphatic "yes" should have resulted in prosecution under the rule of presumption of innocense. Remember, she did not contest the fact that the drugs were found in her bag, only that she did not smuggle them.

2. The revelations, which are ongoing, regarding baggage handlers and their alleged involvement in cross border drug smuggling within Australia were, in my opinion, handled badly by the corby defense team. Either they couldn't get a smoking gun-type witness or they dropped the ball, who knows, but the Bali court was under no requirement to seek out this information for itself, and the revelations were basically given no weight in her trial.

3. The last time I flew into Bali I had crampons (little climbing gear devices) that are worth about $5 AUS apiece stolen off my bag before I got it out of Customs in the airport. I have little trust for baggage handlers, particularly those in indonesia, who will offer to carry your bag across the building for you then turn around and demand a massive tip as a carrying fee.

4. Also, do this as a test. I have a mate who is a baggage handler and I was amazed at a trick he showed me, which he said is common place, for opening bags. Take a ballpoint pen and put the pointy end against a closed zip on a bag. Bang the end with the palm of your hand and a few teeth of the zipper should disconnect. Prize the zip open and you have easy access to the bag's contents. Now the trick is closing it without it being noticeable. Take the zipper pull device and slide it past the area you opened. Return the pull device back to where it started and VIOLA, the zip goes back together and no-one could tell you've tampered with it. Even if the two zip pull devices are locked together you can still use this technique. My point is, if Corby's bag had been locked, she still would have had a defense that it could have been opened.

5. All that said, she could have made a very stupid mistake and actually be guilty. This would make the anti-indonesian sentiment, which is being whipped up by certain elements within the media, all the more wrong. The last thing Australia needs is to trash a decade of improving relations with our extremely populous northern neighbour.

6. It is also worth stating that the Balinese are beautiful people, who live on the island of Bali which is a Hindu enclave within the Indonesian archapelago, which is largely muslim. They are the sweetest people alive really, and if you talk to a few there is a lot of resentment from the Balinese against those from mainland Indonesia, over things like the Bali bombing (planned by muslim extremists on a Hindu island). They need our tourism dollars, so don't stop going there.





4.