NationStates Jolt Archive

I bought a Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 special last night. I was also considering a Bersa .380, but went with the revolver for less chance of a jam and a little more stopping power, but sacrificed ammo capacity. Did I make the right choice?

Odds are that the possession of a weapon is enough to discourage an attack. If the attacker is really determined, you might end up needing a shotgun to fend him off.

Personally, I'm thinking about a 40 S&W type pistol. Haven't decided what sort yet, but the Mauser M2 is up there. It seems to be a good combination of size, stopping power and mag capacity. I'd rather have a new full size 1911, but I'd never carry the one I have. Just too big.

I bought a Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 special last night. I was also considering a Bersa .380, but went with the revolver for less chance of a jam and a little more stopping power, but sacrificed ammo capacity. Did I make the right choice?

It's a light, concealable piece that won't make your pants sag. And very pleasant to shoot. I've had trouble with 380 ACP automatics, mostly due to magazine problems or ammunition failure. The 38 Special is reliable, and you'll be more than able to put all of your shots into someone close.

Odds are that the possession of a weapon is enough to discourage an attack. If the attacker is really determined, you might end up needing a shotgun to fend him off.

Personally, I'm thinking about a 40 S&W type pistol. Haven't decided what sort yet, but the Mauser M2 is up there. It seems to be a good combination of size, stopping power and mag capacity. I'd rather have a new full size 1911, but I'd never carry the one I have. Just too big.

I have a Mauser M2 in 45 ACP. I haven't been this pleased with a pistol in ages, and it's my carry piece.

Odds are that the possession of a weapon is enough to discourage an attack. If the attacker is really determined, you might end up needing a shotgun to fend him off.

Personally, I'm thinking about a 40 S&W type pistol. Haven't decided what sort yet, but the Mauser M2 is up there. It seems to be a good combination of size, stopping power and mag capacity. I'd rather have a new full size 1911, but I'd never carry the one I have. Just too big.
It might be tough to carry a shotgun concealed. I wanted something small for occasional concealed carry.

I bought a Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 special last night. I was also considering a Bersa .380, but went with the revolver for less chance of a jam and a little more stopping power, but sacrificed ammo capacity. Did I make the right choice?

You made an excellent choice for a first firearm. They're managable, decent cartridge, and reliable. .38 ammo is relatively inexpensive as well.

If you're planning on using it for home-defense purposes, I'ld recommend hollow-point ammunition.

Edit: For CC as well. It provides superior stopping power w/ reduced risk of shoot through.

As always, be safe, and legal.

Thanks everyone. I was a little worried about carrying a gun that only holds 5 rounds of ammo, but I guess I don't expect to get into any major gun battles anytime soon.

Thanks everyone. I was a little worried about carrying a gun that only holds 5 rounds of ammo, but I guess I don't expect to get into any major gun battles anytime soon.

My wife carries a S&W Model 60 (very small, 5-rounds, in 357) and she's quite happy with it.

It's very light and unobtrusive.

I bought a Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 special last night. I was also considering a Bersa .380, but went with the revolver for less chance of a jam and a little more stopping power, but sacrificed ammo capacity. Did I make the right choice?
Good little gun. Not a particular S$W fan, but if you got a good deal, then IMO it's better than the Bersa.

Given a choice of S$W revolvers though, I would have selected one that could handle the occasional .357. That way it works in the woods too.

Good little gun. Not a particular S$W fan, but if you got a good deal, then IMO it's better than the Bersa.

Given a choice of S$W revolvers though, I would have selected one that could handle the occasional .357. That way it works in the woods too.
I'm a city boy.

Make sure you give your pistol a name.

Make sure you give your pistol a name.
You name your guns?

You name your guns?

Not the same weapon I know, but the people i train with name their swords.

Call it Mr. Shooty!

Call it Mr. Shooty!
I think I will. Thanks.

You name your guns?
Yes, they all have female names.

My wife even named her gun.

Certainly a good choice. I think .38 is a bit too little, but some people disagree.

Bersa .380's are known to have jam problems, so, with that alternative, you made a VERY good choice.

What's your next gun going to be?

Good little gun. Not a particular S$W fan, but if you got a good deal, then IMO it's better than the Bersa.

Given a choice of S$W revolvers though, I would have selected one that could handle the occasional .357. That way it works in the woods too.

Given a choice of S&W revolvers, I would have chosen the 629 Classic.

hehe

Certainly a good choice. I think .38 is a bit too little, but some people disagree.

Bersa .380's are known to have jam problems, so, with that alternative, you made a VERY good choice.

What's your next gun going to be?
I'm not thinking about my next gun right now. I'll let you know when I decide to get another one.

I think I will. Thanks.
Yay!

Allanea/Whispering Legs et al.

Is the Beretta 92FS a good pistol to start with?

WHEN I buy my first gun, it'll either be a Springfield Mil-Spec .45ACP or the 92FS.

If you have any advice, it would be greatly appreciated.

You name your guns?
Not really, but given I carry a NAA Guardian, I sort of think of it as a "Noisy Cricket"...

There's two schools of semi-automatic pistol people.

Those who advocate large-capacity 9mm pistols, like the Beretta, which is quite a good gun.

And those who advocate .45 pistols, usually 1911 series - like the one you're talking about.

Consider a Glock, though.

Allanea/Whispering Legs et al.
Is the Beretta 92FS a good pistol to start with?
WHEN I buy my first gun, it'll either be a Springfield Mil-Spec .45ACP or the 92FS.
If you have any advice, it would be greatly appreciated.
The 92 is a decent 9mm... if you like a gun that can be disasembled while you are pointing it at someone. :eek:

The .45 is a much better choice IMO.

If I was going to get a 9mm, it would be either a Glock, or a Browning HiPower, or even a Sig. Not that the Beretta is bad - it's just that I don't like the way they feel in my hand.

That's probably important to remember - see how they feel. If you can, go to a range where you can rent the model you plan on buying - and see how it feels when you shoot it.

There's nothing quite as upsetting as paying a lot of money for a gun you find out (30 minutes later) doesn't feel right in your hands.

If I was going to get a 9mm, it would be either a Glock, or a Browning HiPower, or even a Sig. Not that the Beretta is bad - it's just that I don't like the way they feel in my hand.

That's probably important to remember - see how they feel. If you can, go to a range where you can rent the model you plan on buying - and see how it feels when you shoot it.

There's nothing quite as upsetting as paying a lot of money for a gun you find out (30 minutes later) doesn't feel right in your hands.
Total agreement. First handgun I ever fired was a HiPower. Gotta Love John Browning's handiwork.

Though I like the mini-glocks better than the full size ones. - esp. in 10mm :D

If I was going to get a 9mm, it would be either a Glock, or a Browning HiPower, or even a Sig. Not that the Beretta is bad - it's just that I don't like the way they feel in my hand.

That's probably important to remember - see how they feel. If you can, go to a range where you can rent the model you plan on buying - and see how it feels when you shoot it.

There's nothing quite as upsetting as paying a lot of money for a gun you find out (30 minutes later) doesn't feel right in your hands.

so it'd be sort of like buying a pair of shoes without trying them on first.

cool, thanks.

thank you too, allanea and syniks (hope i spelled them right).

WL
I had been thinking about the HiPower... if I get one, it'll be an FN HiPower.

As for Glocks, when I first started thinking about guns about 5 years ago I was a Glock fanatic... my first favorite gun was the Glock 19.

So if I ever buy a 9mm, probably the three i'll look at will be the Beretta, the HiPower and the Glock 19.

As for the .45s, I've vacillated from (first) the Para-Ordnance ACP... to the original, the Colt ACP... and now, finally, to the Mil-Spec from Springfield.

I would not get the 92FS, I have had mine for about six years now and hate it. If you want a 9mm, look at Sig,the Hi-power, and the Springfield XD series. The XD series is a great gun, I have two of them, a .40 S&W 5 in tactical, and a .45GAP 5 in tactical. So far, I have shot over 5,000 rounds through both without a single problem, which is more then i can say for my 92FS

I bought a Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 special last night. I was also considering a Bersa .380, but went with the revolver for less chance of a jam and a little more stopping power, but sacrificed ammo capacity. Did I make the right choice?

Shoot it four or five times at the range in a two week (max) timeframe. If you still like it, yep. :)

Don't forget a holster. There's nothing as bad as carrying it directly in your pants.

Later, your well-preserved testicles will thank you.

Shoot it four or five times at the range in a two week (max) timeframe. If you still like it, yep. :)
I plan to. I can't wait to put a box or two of ammo through it.

I would not get the 92FS, I have had mine for about six years now and hate it. If you want a 9mm, look at Sig,the Hi-power, and the Springfield XD series. The XD series is a great gun, I have two of them, a .40 S&W 5 in tactical, and a .45GAP 5 in tactical. So far, I have shot over 5,000 rounds through both without a single problem, which is more then i can say for my 92FS
Have you ever had a good Martial Arts instructor show you how to remove the slide of a 92 that's pointed at you and within arms reach of a quick left hand?

Nothing more demoralizing than being beaten to death with your own slide...

I love "try before you buy" gunstores. Since all "new" guns have had proofing rounds fired through them at the factory anyway, IMO a store/range should have no issues allowing a genuine prospective buyer put a couple of mags/cylinders downrange and still selling the gun as "new".

Like it was said - if it works for Shoes...

I plan to. I can't wait to put a box or two of ammo through it.Look immediately at Speer Gold Dot SB (short barrel) It's designed specifically for that gun.

Look immediately at Speer Gold Dot SB (short barrel) It's designed specifically for that gun.
Thanks for the advice.

Thanks for the advice.
Linky (http://www.speer-bullets.com/default.asp?s1=3&s2=5) :D

Originally Posted by Monotonous
Call it Mr. Shooty! I think I will. Thanks.
LOL!
Guns should be renamed to Mr. Shooties! Think of the Mr. Shooty(gun) debates!

A:Mr. Shooties don't kill people! people do!

B:Hundreds of people die every year from Mr. Shooty related accidents!

A: I have a constitutional right to a Mr. Shooty!

Every firearm I own has a name.

For instance, my wife and can talk in front of hoplophobes without distressing them.

"Are we going to take the girls out tonight?"

Have you ever had a good Martial Arts instructor show you how to remove the slide of a 92 that's pointed at you and within arms reach of a quick left hand?

Nothing more demoralizing than being beaten to death with your own slide...


Good thing they've fixed that... and if somebody hasn't retro'd their 10 year old defective pistol, they DESERVE to have that happen. ;)

Good thing they've fixed that... and if somebody hasn't retro'd their 10 year old defective pistol, they DESERVE to have that happen. ;)
Hadn't heard. 'bout the only Beretta I care to handle is a shotgun, so I don't follow it too much. I thought the Army made a big mistake with the 92 and should have bought the Ruger P85. Good American Gun that.

Hadn't heard. 'bout the only Beretta I care to handle is a shotgun, so I don't follow it too much. I thought the Army made a big mistake with the 92 and should have bought the Ruger P85. Good American Gun that.

Don't get me started on what I don't like about the Ruger P85.

I'm sorry the US Army didn't go with the Sig.

Don't get me started on what I don't like about the Ruger P85. I'm sorry the US Army didn't go with the Sig.
Well, I'll give you that. But the '88 P85 was still better than the '88 Beretta. I had a (personal) P85 when in FRG in case the baloon went up, but traded it for a GP100 when I got to Alaska and needed a robust wheel gun for security work. (I traded that for a Casull when I no longer needed a wimpy .357...) :D

In general, I don't care much for 9mm crunchentickers of any brand. Gimme a .40 (1cm) or bigger if possible.

(Of course, I carry a .32acp 24/7, so what am I talking about...?) :rolleyes:

Every firearm I own has a name.

For instance, my wife and can talk in front of hoplophobes without distressing them.

"Are we going to take the girls out tonight?"
What are your guns' names?

What are your guns' names?

I have a Remington 700P named Beatrice
a M4gery from Rock River Arms named Sally
a Mauser M2 named Janet
a Marlin 1895 named Kate
a Les Baer 1911 named Kathy
a Browning Buckmark rifle named Meredith (Merry, for short)

My wife's pistol is named Susie.

I have a Remington 700P named Beatrice
a M4gery from Rock River Arms named Sally
a Mauser M2 named Janet
a Marlin 1895 named Kate
a Les Baer 1911 named Kathy
a Browning Buckmark rifle named Meredith (Merry, for short)

My wife's pistol is named Susie.
I won't even go there...

I trade my guns too often to personalize them. They are tools - favored tools - but nothing more.

I won't even go there...

I trade my guns too often to personalize them. They are tools - favored tools - but nothing more.

Trading or selling a personal weapon is a sin.

I've seen a lot of guys do it though.

Trading or selling a personal weapon is a sin.
Only if you have the $$$ to keep buying more. I don't, and haven't - so if I want something new, I have to trade off something that I don't/won't use as much.

Parting with my Casull was like losing a beloved pet, but I needed the $1500 more and ther isn't much use for it in middle-america except maybe for bragging rights.

Only if you have the $$$ to keep buying more. I don't, and haven't - so if I want something new, I have to trade off something that I don't/won't use as much.

Parting with my Casull was like losing a beloved pet, but I needed the $1500 more and ther isn't much use for it in middle-america except maybe for bragging rights.
You'll be sorry when a grizzly bear comes walking down your street.

You'll be sorry when a grizzly bear comes walking down your street.
I still have my Mossberg Mariner 12ga... and some pretty radical copper sabots. I think that will be enough down here.

(I swear to God though, that Casull was the most accurate gun I've ever owned. I actually dialed in a steel gong at around 186 yds - offhand, just to prove it could be done - with the .45acp cylinder (recoil less than a .22) It was hilarious. You could shoot, lower the gun, wait another 3/4 second THEN hear the gong.) :D

Couldn't ever get my bear loads (350gr LBT-WFN, 31gr h110/w296) to do that though...:( Might have had somthing to do with the recoil of 2200ftlbs ME :eek: :D

Couldn't ever get my bear loads (350gr LBT-WFN, 31gr h110/w296) to do that though... Might have had somthing to do with the recoil of 2200ftlbs ME

Syniks - nice to see a fellow reloader in here.

Don't forget a holster. There's nothing as bad as carrying it directly in your pants.

Later, your well-preserved testicles will thank you.
During cooler weather it isn't too hard to conceal a small pistol. Heck I can put the 1911 in a coat pocket. What do you do for warm days when you are wearing slacks and a polo shirt, or t-shirt?

During cooler weather it isn't too hard to conceal a small pistol. Heck I can put the 1911 in a coat pocket. What do you do for warm days when you are wearing slacks and a polo shirt, or t-shirt?

This: I call it "Noisy Cricket". The Fiocchi ammo expands to .60 and gets 11" wet phonebook penetration.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0332.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0333.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0334.jpg

Notice it's the same size as my wallet. I can wear biking shorts with impunity.

Not bad at all. Thanks.

I bought a Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 special last night. I was also considering a Bersa .380, but went with the revolver for less chance of a jam and a little more stopping power, but sacrificed ammo capacity. Did I make the right choice?


Don't get the .380...it's a totally lame calibre for darn near anything you'd want to use it for.

It's a truism that most handgunners aren't as accurate as the gun they're using. So, at this point, don't spend a heckuva lot of money getting a hyper-accurate handgun. Long after the joy of a cheap bargain is over you'll be feeling the sting of working with a piece of junk. Never ever buy a piece of junk just because it's cheap...10 years from now, you won't regret whatever you spent on a Glock, COlt, S&W, etc.

If you want a carry handgun, then you simply have to decide what size of gun you want. For stopping power, you just can't beat a basic 1911 style .45. However, a full-sized 1911 can be a tad too big for concealed carry in the summer. To me, a 9mm just doesn't have enough punch. So, I basically compromised on a .40 cal...S&W makes the Sigma (a Glock knock-off) and it's at a moderate price. I have a Sigma, and it's been very reliable and accurate (its frame is a little smaller than a full-sized 1911) and is very easy to carry without having to wear a jacket.

The .38 you got obviously is very lightweight and relatively small, so it's good for concealed carry. I'm not going to knock it too much, but I probably would have gotten a S&W model that would handle the .357 cal also. The .38 also won't have hardly any accuracy beyond 30 yards, so you're pretty much relegated to using it only for close-in self defense. A little bit bigger gun (larger cal and longer barrel) just gives you more utility.


EDIT: If you want to know what all-around calibre handgun to get, just ask every police officer you feel comfortable talking to what calibre they carry: I'll bet you a donut that they carry .45s and .40s...you just won't see many carrying a 9mm any more. The .40 pretty much is considered the standard carry calibre now by FBI agents ( the FBI agents I've talked to basically tell me that a full-sized 1911 just is too big for their day-to-day carry.)

If I have the choice of picking up a gun from a table and using it right then, I'd pick up the 1911. If I'm carrying, I'll carry the .40.

<snip>The .40 pretty much is considered the standard carry calibre now by FBI agents ( the FBI agents I've talked to basically tell me that a full-sized 1911 just is too big for their day-to-day carry.)

If I have the choice of picking up a gun from a table and using it right then, I'd pick up the 1911. If I'm carrying, I'll carry the .40.
IF I were buying a new pistol (not revolver) for general carry today, it would probably be the Glock 29 (http://www.glock.com/g29.htm). 10mm is enough poop for field use, every bit as good as .357 for 2-legged predators, and comes in a decently small 10-shot package. The Glock 36 is good too, but if I were buying a 6/7 shot .45 it would be a 1911 Officers frame with a 4" 'commander' slide. (Colt offered this stock as the XO for about a year... :( )

10mm also has the advantage of being carryable in certain (world) jurisdictions (like Monoco IIRC) that forbid the possession of "military caliber" firearms - like .45 & 9mm.

Yeah, it barks a bit more than a .40 (10mm short), but it's bite is MUCH better.

I have a little airweight as well, as my back-up duty firearm. They are great as a close-quarters, muzzle-contact weapon, as they can't get pushed out of battery. Good choice, but you might want to get something big that you can actually take out to the range and hit things with!

Regarding the original question posed by the thread's author:

- In my opinion, yes. Revolvers do not have magazine springs to loose tension and misfeed a round. Revolvers also psychologically dislocate your opponent more than a semiautomatic, depending on the style of weapon and engagement range.

Although I'dve preferred a larger caliber. Occassionally you'll need to put someone down right the Hell away and no ifs about it. .357 gets that done. .44 gets that done. Just with a large recoil and a larger ammo bill if you ever go to the range.

Personally, I've got an SKS-D and a variety of other tools that I'd use to discourage someone breaking into my house. Something very, very unpleasant would happen to them.
"Hi!"
"Oh shit."
"Yeah!"
*Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang.*

Because once they're in your house, they're your bitch. Just be sure of what you're shooting at, and for the love of God, don't tell the cops or 911 anything other than "Someone broke into my house. I shot him. Send the medics, he may still be alive."

They'll try to trick you and turn that "Self defence / Home defence" 'charge' into a manslaughter or murder charge. At least in America. In Canada, it's a bit different. We'd probably be expected to sit on our hands while the intruder rapes a significant other, kills the children, etc, etc. Because it's always that way in this liberal 'paradise.'

It's just much easier and cheaper to get .40 than 10mm, but I certainly agree with the 10mm's effectiveness, and I'd be happy to have one given to me!.

Wear sunglasses and a glove when you fire a .357 out of a snub-nosed pistol!
Of course, if you hit him the first time, you'll have time for your pupils to adjust and to soak your hand in cold water later.

I made a mistake years ago when I took my wife and my daughter to a range. I put .357 rounds in rather than .38... my wife fired the gun 1 time, then almost tore my head off with her glare. She hasn't shot since. My daughter fired off about 4, then took a looonnngg breakd. I should have started my wife off with a .22 and months later worked her up to a .38, then a 9mm.

If you want to learn to shoot, start small... a .22 Ruger is great and is fun to use out in the country. Whatever you use to practice, particularly with semi-autos, see if you can make sure that your carry handgun has the same type of action (including safety) as athe gun you regularly practice with. Get your shooting skill down first before you jump into a large calibre handgun.

I pretty much agree with Russkya -- if you end up having to shoot someone, you did it because you were in fear for your life PERIOD. Don't shoot once...always at least double-tap the guy center-mass. Don't try to wing him, hurt him, scare him, or cripple him -- stop him in his tracks to "stop the threat". If someone were crawling through a window at my house at 2:00 am (I don't have any kids at home who would be trying to sneak back into the house), I wouldn't warn him and give him time to kill me. If you're "in fear for your life", there's no time to waste -- toast him.

Don't get me started on what I don't like about the Ruger P85.

I'm sorry the US Army didn't go with the Sig.

I'm sorry the US Army didn't just stay with the M1911. :(

I'm sorry the US Army didn't just stay with the M1911. :(
Well, that goes without saying. But the 9mm was a definite trend (don't know why).

During cooler weather it isn't too hard to conceal a small pistol. Heck I can put the 1911 in a coat pocket. What do you do for warm days when you are wearing slacks and a polo shirt, or t-shirt?

I have a small cordura "handbag" that has a partition in it.
The Mauser M2 rides in its holster (sewn inside) and I can use it to hold my wallet and cellphone which I can access without revealing the gun.

Doesn't "print", and no one asks me if I have a gun. It also allows me to carry four spare magazines.

I have a small cordura "handbag" that has a partition in it. The Mauser M2 rides in its holster (sewn inside) and I can use it to hold my wallet and cellphone which I can access without revealing the gun. Doesn't "print", and no one asks me if I have a gun. It also allows me to carry four spare magazines.
Heh. When I was working Security, I had a gentleman enter my establishment (a video game parlor in gang territory, clearly marked with "no weapons" signage) with his kids. I sidled up to him and asked quietly "what caliber?" He looked at me rather oddly so I asked again, "what caliber? there, in the fanny pack..." He looked a little sheepish, then said "Cop" and flashed badge.

To me, cordura screams "gun". But then, it was my job... :D

I pretty much agree with Russkya -- if you end up having to shoot someone, you did it because you were in fear for your life PERIOD. Don't shoot once...always at least double-tap the guy center-mass. Don't try to wing him, hurt him, scare him, or cripple him -- stop him in his tracks to "stop the threat". If someone were crawling through a window at my house at 2:00 am (I don't have any kids at home who would be trying to sneak back into the house), I wouldn't warn him and give him time to kill me. If you're "in fear for your life", there's no time to waste -- toast him.
Yes and no. While it really depends on your jurisdiction, in most courts 1 shot is "acceptable" and dumping the whole magazine/cylinder is "acceptable/panic fire", almost anything in between - especially slow, aimed fire - will get you crucified. (Double-taps are iffy and depend on your recieved professional training.) What usually happens is the lawyer for the family will charge that you shot once (or twice, depending on ballistic impact seperation & acceptance of double-tap training) then waited "to see if he was still alive" then shot again.

You may win in criminal court, but odds-on will lose in civil.

Yes and no. While it really depends on your jurisdiction, in most courts 1 shot is "acceptable" and dumping the whole magazine/cylinder is "acceptable/panic fire", almost anything in between - especially slow, aimed fire - will get you crucified. (Double-taps are iffy and depend on your recieved professional training.) What usually happens is the lawyer for the family will charge that you shot once (or twice, depending on ballistic impact seperation & acceptance of double-tap training) then waited "to see if he was still alive" then shot again.

You may win in criminal court, but odds-on will lose in civil.

If the use of deadly force is justified, then of course 1 shot would be "acceptable". I know of no jurisdiction, criminal or civil, where the use of deadly force as a defense is limited to 1 shot.

Every military and civilian training I've been to has taught the double tap as the standard technique for self defense.

You train train train to double tap (that would be 6 shots, I think). Double tapping is the only acceptable technique for close in self defense....if you are in fear for your life, then there simply won't be any time between the first and second shot to even consider whether the threat has been stopped.

You shoot until the threat is stopped. If he is still coming at you after 1 round, either you've missed him, he's on speed, he's wearing a vest, you're shooting a puny round, or something. By the time you've figured it out, he's killed you.

Shooting someone at close range doesn't cause them instantly to fly backward 20-30 feet. The second round should hit them when the are still standing (ok, maybe leaning).

If the use of deadly force is justified, then of course 1 shot would be "acceptable". I know of no jurisdiction, criminal or civil, where the use of deadly force as a defense is limited to 1 shot.

Every military and civilian training I've been to has taught the double tap as the standard technique for self defense.You train train train to double tap (that would be 6 shots, I think). Double tapping is the only acceptable technique for close in self defense....if you are in fear for your life, then there simply won't be any time between the first and second shot to even consider whether the threat has been stopped.
You shoot until the threat is stopped. If he is still coming at you after 1 round, either you've missed him, he's on speed, he's wearing a vest, you're shooting a puny round, or something. By the time you've figured it out, he's killed you. Shooting someone at close range doesn't cause them instantly to fly backward 20-30 feet. The second round should hit them when the are still standing (ok, maybe leaning).
Oh I don't disagree with anything you have said. However, Mossad Ayoob has beaucoup experience in defense shooting cases and he agrees with (advocates for civilians actually) what I said. Either "bang". Or "bangbang". Or "bangbangbangbangbangbangbangclick".

The problem comes in when you fire "slow fire" style (bang--bang--bang) or "bangbang-------bang".

While not illegal, a civil lawyer will tear you up after stacking a sympathetic, anti self-defense jury for some sort of "excessive use of force"

What I'm advocating when I say "double tap" is bangbang (ie: two shots in the quickest succession as can accurately be made).


Nowhere have I advocated "slow fire" in close in self defense. By no means am I saying one should shoot the second shot after any amount of deliberation (ie: bang.............................check to see if he's moving........bang................................bang....bangbang..........................smoke a cigarette....................bang).

If the guy is wounded but still alive and the threat has been stopped, intentionally putting another round in him is murder.

What I'm advocating when I say "double tap" is bangbang (ie: two shots in the quickest succession as can accurately be made).
Nowhere have I advocated "slow fire" in close in self defense. By no means am I saying one should shoot the second shot after any amount of deliberation (ie: bang.............................check to see if he's moving........bang................................bang....bangbang..........................smoke a cigarette....................bang).

If the guy is wounded but still alive and the threat has been stopped, intentionally putting another round in him is murder.
See, we agree! :D

That's why you dump your mag, and then let the cops find you sitting in bed, sweating, still pulling the trigger on your auto which has long ago gone to slide-lock. And as Ayoob says, consult your lawyer immediately.

"I was afraid for my life, I told the perp I was armed, he kept coming, I fired my weapon. I want to speak to my lawyer." Not another word.

You forgot the part about putting an empty mag back in....

I still don't think I'd have any trouble getting out 8 + 1 rounds in a little over a second.

I'm not sure someone would have finished falling down by then.

I still don't think I'd have any trouble getting out 8 + 1 rounds in a little over a second. I'm not sure someone would have finished falling down by then.

"bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangclick". Fits the legal criteria for "panic fire" (whether you you are paniced or not). That's a case you can walk away from.

"bangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangbangclick". Fits the legal criteria for "panic fire" (whether you you are paniced or not). That's a case you can walk away from.
Unless its a shotgun :p

Unless its a shotgun :p

Could be a semi auto shotgun...

Consider a Glock, though.

Ditto that.

They're VERY easy to take care of. Limited cleaning, limited oiling. And reliable as all get-out.

I carry a Glock 30 (.45ACP, 9 rounds), when I can.

T
Though I like the mini-glocks better than the full size ones. - esp. in 10mm :D

G29, eh? My G30 is the same frame, though it doesn't snap as much. :D

I do have a G20 (full size 10mm), though. They're fun.

.38 special is a proven round; it makes a hole. Because its a revolver, you don't have to settle for hollowpoints, which won't expand against someone wearing thick clothing (the tip will clog with fabric); softpoints do not have this problem, and will not shed their jackets either. Cannot comment on the weapon itself; snubbies are unfortunately illegal in Canada.

@ double tap: Double tap is only half the story. Shooting twice and then waiting 2-3 seconds for him to drop is like going "oh, well your either drugged up, very, very determined, or wearing armor, but I'll wait". You shoot until he drops. That does *not* mean empty your weapon, unless of course, he hasn't dropped. Contrary to popular belief, a shot from a handgun cannot knock a person over. An attacker may not be psychologically effected enough to fall down.

Keep in mind one factor of home-defence is "political correctness". I *could* protect my home with an M1 carbine, but the court may frown on that. I go for a 12ga coach gun - compact, very powerful, and PC. I can even do a double tap! ;)

@ choice of issue-sidearm: Glocks and Sigs are either loved or hated. Glocks look awsome to me... on paper. Ultra reliable, flat slide-top, very simple and low maintenance. Unfortunately they are very, very fat and uncomfortable in my hand. Also they are ugly, and wood grips/metal finish are unavailable. Sad, IMO. Don't know enough about Sigs to comment.

I certainly agree that you shoot until the threat is stopped.

im thinking of getting a desert eagle .50 AE. anyone know anything about it. i know its really expensive, but can you really put a price on single shot decapitation?

also anyone know if automatic shotguns are legal in the states?

im thinking of getting a desert eagle .50 AE. anyone know anything about it. i know its really expensive, but can you really put a price on single shot decapitation?

also anyone know if automatic shotguns are legal in the states?

Honestly, don't waste your money. It's all show. The round is little more powerful that a .45 and is considerably more expensive since it's one of the few handguns that uses it. Except for it's price, all of it's statistics are average.

As for Automatic Shotguns, if you're talking fully automatic, it falls under federal jurisdiction first w/ a class III FFL. Then you have to look at each state individually.

Most Semi-auto's are legal in most states but, once again, you have to look at the type and the individual state.

Club house, I own a .50 DE by Magnum Research, and I would never use it for home defense. 1.) shooting a gun inside is loud, with a .50AE it is horrible. 2.) round could possibly go through a wall depending on the ammo you are using, meaning you could get in trouble if it goes through a wall and hurts someone. 3.) follow up shots with a .50AE are not exactly quick to get, even with training. 4.) Cost of ammo , if you were to get one for home defense you would need to practice with it atleast once a week, and ammo for a .50AE is not cheap at all.

Club house, I own a .50 DE by Magnum Research, and I would never use it for home defense. 1.) shooting a gun inside is loud, with a .50AE it is horrible. 2.) round could possibly go through a wall depending on the ammo you are using, meaning you could get in trouble if it goes through a wall and hurts someone. 3.) follow up shots with a .50AE are not exactly quick to get, even with training. 4.) Cost of ammo , if you were to get one for home defense you would need to practice with it atleast once a week, and ammo for a .50AE is not cheap at all.
must you shatter my dreams :(
what if you get hollow point?

If you want a gun that has more power then a typical pistol look at the .50GI round, designed for a 1911 style pistol. It is supposed to have more power then the .45ACP round, but I guess not as much as the .50AE round http://www.m1911.org/mod_guncrafter.htm

well my next choice would be the .475 magnum revolver. its not very practical sure but i would shit myself if i were staring down that barrel.

"The 50 GI is a proprietary Guncrafter Industries cartridge."

That's what the website says.

That's like shooting dollar bills out of the barrel each time you pull the trigger. What the heck would you want to do that for?

If you want home defense, get a 1911 style .45, or a .44 magnum, or a 10mm, or a .40 cal, or a .357 -- maybe a 12 gauge shotgun. If you live in an apartment complex, get a .38 -- you don't want a round going through wall-upon-wall and killing a neighbor.

If you just want to experience sound and fury, buy a 10 gauge shotgun or a .50 cal muzzle load rifle (they're inexpensive).

well my next choice would be the .475 magnum revolver. its not very practical sure but i would shit myself if i were staring down that barrel.

All the defense you need... home or on the go. :)

Micro-Compact 1911-A1
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-mc.shtml

I got mine "pre-owned but not fired" for $800. It's my favorite carry piece, and is very easy to conceal both on the person and in a home. And you've got 6+1 rounds of .45 on your side.

I bought a Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 special last night. I was also considering a Bersa .380, but went with the revolver for less chance of a jam and a little more stopping power, but sacrificed ammo capacity. Did I make the right choice?
Depends upon what you want it for. If you plan to get into a "gunfight at the OK Corral" type affair, you definitely made the wrong choice. But if you want it to defend yourself and others under most circumstances, the revolver should be adequate. :)

All the defense you need... home or on the go. :)

Micro-Compact 1911-A1
http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-mc.shtml

I got mine "pre-owned but not fired" for $800. It's my favorite carry piece, and is very easy to conceal both on the person and in a home. And you've got 6+1 rounds of .45 on your side.
Niiiiice! But $800 for a pre-owned??? OMG!

Getting myself one of these to replace my other coach gun:

http://www.spartangunworks.com/spr220_ca.htm

On the subject of desert eagles: Fun, but largely useless. .50AE is extremely powerful, but very impractical. The gun is twice as heavy, twice as long and about fifty times harder to conceal then other pistols. It also won't give you one shot stops anyhow, pistols just don't do that. Not saying a one shot stop doesn't happen, even with superficial wounds; or that you shouldn't value "stopping power" as a factor. Just that a handgun will not knock someone down or cause them to lose conciousness unless they pass out from shock or something, even a DE.

Hollowpoints are overrated. They *might* expand, they might not. Barrel length, powder load, kinds of clothing a BG could be wearing, etc. seriously influence this. Not saying you shouldn't load em, because they are your best bet with an automatic (softpoints won't feed), but there you have it.

I'll take my Colt Python with a cylinder full of softpoints and 3 speedloads any day.

I bought a Smith and Wesson Airweight .38 special last night. I was also considering a Bersa .380, but went with the revolver for less chance of a jam and a little more stopping power, but sacrificed ammo capacity. Did I make the right choice?

Good choice. Excellent revolver.

Be sure you load it with the correct bullets, .38 Special is not legendary as a man-stopping round! Check into CORBON bullets, they usually have some good stuff. A 124-grain hollowpoint, the old Treasury Agent load should be good.

Niiiiice! But $800 for a pre-owned??? OMG!

Cheap
Fast
Good

...choose two. ;)