NationStates Jolt Archive

Most people when criticizing Communism, seem to think that Russia was Communist. It was just f***ed up. It actually was about the same as the Lassiz faire capitalism in the 1800's.

Communism is, for this post, a system where the workers own the means of production.

I live in a communist land.

I think that we need to start up a new soft drink. So after a bit of research, experimentation on my own time, et cetera, I hold a conference in my town. This conference says, more or less, what the employment contract will be. Now this contract says:

Workers (including me) get paid 50% of profit as wages.
I get 10% of profit, in addition to wage.
Direct democracy, but I am allowed to keep trade secrets.
The other 40% of profit will be spent according to a budget that we decide upon.
You give me funds to build factory.
I employ you. You work. You don’t work, you are fired. That means, no pay check or food stamp or food.

Now, your thinking:

PAID? This is communism! All hail the Head of State! Bow down or be bowed, or be sent to gulags! We have no money we are moron commies! We need food! Wah, wah, wah, I want to live in the land of the free!


I’ll address you later. So I get 50 workers to jump aboard, and they help me get the funds to build the factory. We start to make our Commie Cola. But here is where there are two ideas –

WOtMoP Communism – and sell it for profit. See the budget above, we decide to make a new Factory. We hire 50 more guys, and they are ‘interns’. They get all the rights of a normal worker, but they cannot vote in a company election, until they have worked here for 6 months. The company constitution prevents us from mistreating them.

I-think-you-need-a-barrel-of-food-and-you-need-half-of-a-barrel Communism – we give it to the community or the ‘commune’. The committee, elected by the workers of the town, thinks that we should get all of our supplies we need to live (like food or whatever). If someone as an individual does not like his or her supplies, they can trade.

Barter Market Communism – We decide to trade 2000 6-packs to the local farm in return for assorted food. We give some more 6-packs to the builder in return for building a new lounge for our workers.

Now back to the whining.
Lassiz Faire Capitalism did not work. Why would pure, über communism? Hold stuff to similar lights people. This actually, is better from a Capitalist prospective than our capitalism. why?

large companies would have trouble existing. Seeing as company committes for such things as marketing would have to elected, the amount of politicalization would increase. As well, workers would be more likely to move to a smaller MoP to gain a say. Big corporations are bad for business, as they can instantly buy out, or cut out, a radical new competitor. Think of Microsoft here.

There is still an incentive for creating a new MoP. Not better than our capitalism, but better than most communist systems.

What do you say to me, the guy that doesn't want a commune lifestyle? I want to live in a big mansion with people who will do my bidding. The best way for me to do this is by having my own company and building it up the way I see will best make money for me. I wouldn't be able to do this in this system. Why would I want to live in a system where a lifestyle would be forced upon me that I would be restricted from changning?

What do you say to me, the guy that doesn't want a commune lifestyle? I want to live in a big mansion with people who will do my bidding. The best way for me to do this is by having my own company and building it up the way I see will best make money for me. I wouldn't be able to do this in this system. Why would I want to live in a system where a lifestyle would be forced upon me that I would be restricted from changning?

What do I say to you? You're selfish, and you probably deserve a poor lifestyle... Though in a real Communism, you won't have anything of the sort.

What do I say to you? You're selfish, and you probably deserve a poor lifestyle... Though in a real Communism, you won't have anything of the sort.

Selfish maybe but I should still be able to make that choice. While Communism may not technically stop me from making that choice, it does hinder my ability to follow it. Why should I live how others think I should? As long as I am not hurting anyone, I should be able to make that choice for myself.

Huh. The USSR wasn't Communist? While I appreciate this elaborate but tired attempt to divorce the idea of Communism from it's history of being attempted to put into use, the Communist Party seemed to disagree with it. Am I to judge whether YOUR 'communism' is the TRUE communism, or theirs? It's just as bad with religions. Everyone claims THEIR religion is the One True Religion, theirs the One True God/Spiritual Path. I'm tired of it, if you call yourself communist, and they call themselves communists, I'm going to consider you BOTH communists. If you didn't want that association and you want a new, different, "TRUE" communism do what the Protestants did, get yourself a new word for it.

But don't bother telling me about it, because I really don't care.

Selfish maybe but I should still be able to make that choice. While Communism may not technically stop me from making that choice, it does hinder my ability to follow it. Why should I live how others think I should? As long as I am not hurting anyone, I should be able to make that choice for myself.

You're not technically hurting anyone by making them work for low wages to inflate your profit margins, but you are harming them. You get most of the money, while they get shit and some change. Do they get to live in a nice house with lots of food with such wages? Nope. They live in shitholes, because that's all they can afford.

But don't bother telling me about it, because I really don't care.

Then why'd you bother posting such an ignorant comment?

SNIP
If I want to go kill 20 people, society prevents me from doing so now. Why would I want to live in a system like that?
Well, If you want servants and stuff... Well, you probably couldn't. But you could hire a catering or cleaning firm, and they could clean you house. Yes, wealth would be harder to come by... Or at least extreme wealth. But more people would be average and one step up than right now.

Honestly, your chances for getting a mansion while typing on this forum aren't that great. Maybe buy another lottery ticket.

You're not technically hurting anyone by making them work for low wages to inflate your profit margins, but you are harming them. You get most of the money, while they get shit and some change. Do they get to live in a nice house with lots of food with such wages? Nope. They live in shitholes, because that's all they can afford.
In a free market I wouldn't be FORCING anyone to work for low wages. They have the ability to work for someone else or, like me, own their own business. They have the ability to make the same choices I do, make different choices, decide how much they'll work and who they'll work for if not themselves.

In a free market I wouldn't be FORCING anyone to work for low wages. They have the ability to work for someone else or, like me, own their own business. They have the ability to make the same choices I do, make different choices, decide how much they'll work and who they'll work for if not themselves.

That's just it --- Many people have to take these low-paying jobs because that's all they can take. Often, they don't have the required education to get higher-paying jobs, usually because their parents couldn't afford it. In a way, yes, you are forcing people to work for ridiculous wages, albeit indirectly.

Then why'd you bother posting such an ignorant comment?

Pardon me? What was ignorant about it?

Maybe I'd be less "ignorant" if I'd lied and said, "Oh, I care so very much about which Communists are the TRUE inheritors of the title?"

Pardon me? What was ignorant about it?

Maybe I'd be less "ignorant" if I'd lied and said, "Oh, I care so very much about which Communists are the TRUE inheritors of the title?"

:rolleyes:

If I want to go kill 20 people, society prevents me from doing so now. Why would I want to live in a system like that?
Well, If you want servants and stuff... Well, you probably couldn't. But you could hire a catering or cleaning firm, and they could clean you house. Yes, wealth would be harder to come by... Or at least extreme wealth. But more people would be average and one step up than right now.

Honestly, your chances for getting a mansion while typing on this forum aren't that great. Maybe buy another lottery ticket.

Ha, clever. I was talking hypothetically, as in if I wanted to do that not that they are my actual plans. The reason you can't go and kill 20 people is because they have the right to live. What is wrong with me making money if it doesn't infringe on the rights of others? Ofcourse I would be paying the servants as well.

:rolleyes:

:headbang: :rolleyes: :sniper:

That's just it --- Many people have to take these low-paying jobs because that's all they can take. Often, they don't have the required education to get higher-paying jobs, usually because their parents couldn't afford it. In a way, yes, you are forcing people to work for ridiculous wages, albeit indirectly.

While they may start off with a distinct disadvantage because of their background, in most cases they are not destined to a dead end job their entire lives if they choose not to be. They can look for a career in an area where experience is more valued than education and climb to a higher paying job over time. They can become educated without their parents help, weather it's starting with a minor diploma and working your way into higher education as you earn more money or via a loan if, or when, they are eligible. I'm not saying people simply choose to be millionaire's and it happens, they have to work for it, very hard. It's up to each individual to decide if they want to spend their energy earning money or doing others things, such as raising a family. Even if I am forcing people indirectly to work for less money than I am, or if I'm making less money because I am an employee of someone else's company, I'd rather be able to be in a position to somewhat control my situation rather than having no choice about my lifestyle and being forced directly to live and work the way communism would tell me.

Your are talking about a Kabutz (don't thik I spelt that right but anyhow).

The idea of profit share is not new, in fact I think that the idea of company employees being paid on the basis of company success is a noble business practice.

If the company is a success then the employees are successful. If the coumpany fails the staff are the only ones to blame, especially if they have a vote on company decissions as you have expressed.

In a purely communist society however a soft drink would be an unnecessary use of commune resources. You want to drink, have water.

If the communist system is controlled like the Russian Communists did the soft drink would come in one flavour as decided by the ministry of manufacture.