NationStates Jolt Archive

Open letter to the religiously belligerent

Newsflash: To those (of any creed) who seem hell bent on informing the world of their religious beliefs: I don't give a toss what your religion is.

Why should I?
Mentioning your lord and saviour, --Fill in the Blank-- doesn't impress me. What denomination you are doesn't impress me. What you SAY you beleive in means nothing to me. I am religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people don't care. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, AFTER I have known them for awhile. Not within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days.

Telling someone you are religious will not get you to heaven. Mentioning God or one of his prophets in nearly every sentence is not faith. Its taking Gods name in vain, using it to further yourself and, you hope, others perception of you.

I DON'T CARE. PLEASE SHUT UP. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR FAITH DO IT THROUGH ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SPREAD YOUR FAITH, DO IT BY EXAMPLE, NOT WORDS.

My religion institutionally rejects missionaryism. Just saying.

Mine too. Its labeled Taboo actually. Maybe thats why I get so bothered when others engage in it.

Open letter to the religiously belligerent

Newsflash: To those (of any creed) who seem hell bent on informing the world of their religious beliefs: I don't give a toss what your religion is.

Why should I?
Mentioning your lord and saviour, --Fill in the Blank-- doesn't impress me. What denomination you are doesn't impress me. What you SAY you beleive in means nothing to me. I am religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people don't care. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, AFTER I have known them for awhile. Not within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days.

Telling someone you are religious will not get you to heaven. Mentioning God or one of his prophets in nearly every sentence is not faith. Its taking Gods name in vain, using it to further yourself and, you hope, others perception of you.

I DON'T CARE. PLEASE SHUT UP. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR FAITH DO IT THROUGH ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SPREAD YOUR FAITH, DO IT BY EXAMPLE, NOT WORDS.Agreed... but let me ask you this... How can the Religious... recuiters (for lack of a better word) prove their faith to you by actions on a FORUM?

Not trying to recruit... just wondering.

But you have to have missionaries and proselytizing. How else can you get gullible fools when they're very young to buy into your particular brand of nonsense? Without a constant stream of patsies, the Ponzi scheme that is organized religion collapses in on itself.

My religion requires me to mention Chuck Norris at least twice in every conversation, and to end every sentence with '...so sayeth Walker, Texas Ranger.' According to my God, that will get me into Heaven, which is really just a room with a TV playing 'The Delta Force' over and over again until the end of time. Chuck Norris-u Akbar.

Eh. I could say the same thing about many atheists on here who perpetually write up threads attempting to convert the masses to the atheistic cult.
I'm not bashing the atheists of NS general, but it really is a two way street, isn't it?

But the atheists aren't asking you to Tithe. It's an important distinction. "Join us, or you'll rot in everlasting damnation, and oh, by the way, here's a collection plate." versus "Don't believe them, think for yourself. Oh, by the way, keep your hard earned money in your pocket."

Who the heck do you think you are dictating to people that they can't talk about their religious beliefs? If you want stalinism go move to China.

But the atheists aren't asking you to Tithe. It's an important distinction. "Join us, or you'll rot in everlasting damnation, and oh, by the way, here's a collection plate." versus "Don't believe them, think for yourself. Oh, by the way, keep your hard earned money in your pocket."
No you don't get to keep your "hard earned money" in your pocket. The government and everyone else will always be taking your hard earned money. You can't blame your financial difficulties on religious people. You got into that bad situation on your own, by using the practice known as debt financing. condemning religious people ain't going to make your financial obligations go away.

But you have to have missionaries and proselytizing. How else can you get gullible fools when they're very young to buy into your particular brand of nonsense? Without a constant stream of patsies, the Ponzi scheme that is organized religion collapses in on itself.
there is always going to be organized religion. You will never be able to get rid of it. You can't ban it though some have tried and failed. Organized religion is here to stay.

Eh. I could say the same thing about many atheists on here who perpetually write up threads attempting to convert the masses to the atheistic cult.
I'm not bashing the atheists of NS general, but it really is a two way street, isn't it?
The difference is we are usually trying to analyze data or viewpoints rather then “winning” people over

That’s how things USUALY start anyways

But the atheists aren't asking you to Tithe. It's an important distinction. "Join us, or you'll rot in everlasting damnation, and oh, by the way, here's a collection plate." versus "Don't believe them, think for yourself. Oh, by the way, keep your hard earned money in your pocket."

Funny. No one on the board, Christian or otherwise, asked me to tithe a red cent. ;) And as far as the collection plate thing goes, that's not actually mandatory. You're totally welcome to not contribute. That's why it's called an offering, not a shake-down.

The idea of tithing a part of your income is something else altogether acually, and from what I know after attending parish meetings, no one is keeping a list of who's tithed this year and who hasn't, and no one is actually forcing anyone to tithe. That money mostly goes toward maintenance and costs of operation. There's no implied 'buying your way into heaven' associated with that. Interestingly though, that concept exists in Buddhism. It's known as accumulating merit. My dad's a devout Buddhist and I have great respect for his beliefs, but that's another story.

Cheers.

Who the heck do you think you are dictating to people that they can't talk about their religious beliefs? If you want stalinism go move to China.

I'm not dictating anything to anyone. I'm saying I don't want to hear about someonelese religion unless I ask them about it. Preaching is TABOO in my faith. Y'know, Taboo, as bad as heresy, as bad as blasphemy. I value my religious freedom. I only wish other people valued MY religious freedom as much as I do THEIRS. Go thump a Bible, but not in my face.

Agreed... but let me ask you this... How can the Religious... recuiters (for lack of a better word) prove their faith to you by actions on a FORUM?

Not trying to recruit... just wondering.


Why the Hell should they have to convert people on a bloody message board in the first place? Why should I have to put up with that crap here too?

I'm not dictating anything to anyone. I'm saying I don't want to hear about someonelese religion unless I ask them about it. Preaching is TABOO in my faith. Y'know, Taboo, as bad as heresy, as bad as blasphemy. I value my religious freedom. I only wish other people valued MY religious freedom as much as I do THEIRS. Go thump a Bible, but not in my face.Honest Question.
If preaching is TABOO for you, does that means that you cannot preach or that you cannot be preached to.

if I am wrong and I means you cannot be preached to, then you cannot blame Christianity or any other religion for being Billigerant, but your religion for actually forcing your ears close. (which I hope is not the case.)

BTW. what religion are you that bans Preaching?

Why the Hell should they have to convert people on a bloody message board in the first place? Why should I have to put up with that crap here too?So you are for Limiting Free speech on the internet? No one is forcing you to read those threads, and no one is forcing you to participate in them.

You can choose to read them and put in your two cents, or, like me, you can ignore the ones that offend you.

I'm not dictating anything to anyone. I'm saying I don't want to hear about someonelese religion unless I ask them about it. Preaching is TABOO in my faith. Y'know, Taboo, as bad as heresy, as bad as blasphemy. I value my religious freedom. I only wish other people valued MY religious freedom as much as I do THEIRS. Go thump a Bible, but not in my face.
Dont stick your face in other people's conversations then. If you don't like threads about religion don't read them.
Religious freedom does not give you the right to tell other people they can't talk religion just because you don't like it. Ever hear of the 1st amendment? Its called freedom of speech.

Yeah, I'm so sick of people expressing their views and opinions. Especially on a forum of all places, it really isn't appropriate.

Open letter to the religiously belligerent

Newsflash: To those (of any creed) who seem hell bent on informing the world of their religious beliefs: I don't give a toss what your religion is.

Why should I?
Mentioning your lord and saviour, --Fill in the Blank-- doesn't impress me. What denomination you are doesn't impress me. What you SAY you beleive in means nothing to me. I am religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people don't care. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, AFTER I have known them for awhile. Not within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days.

Telling someone you are religious will not get you to heaven. Mentioning God or one of his prophets in nearly every sentence is not faith. Its taking Gods name in vain, using it to further yourself and, you hope, others perception of you.

I DON'T CARE. PLEASE SHUT UP. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR FAITH DO IT THROUGH ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SPREAD YOUR FAITH, DO IT BY EXAMPLE, NOT WORDS.

Don't Worry, Jesus loves you anyway :D

I'm saying I don't want to hear about someonelese religion unless I ask them about it. Preaching is TABOO in my faith.

You're being religiously belligerant too... By trying to enfore YOU'RE religous beliefs of not preaching to other people. :P

Yeah, I'm so sick of people expressing their views and opinions. Especially on a forum of all places, it really isn't appropriate.

The nerve...

Open letter to the religiously belligerent

Newsflash: To those (of any creed) who seem hell bent on informing the world of their religious beliefs: I don't give a toss what your religion is.
Good for you. You may have a cookie.

Why should I?
Mentioning your lord and saviour, --Fill in the Blank-- doesn't impress me. What denomination you are doesn't impress me. What you SAY you beleive in means nothing to me. I am religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people don't care. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, AFTER I have known them for awhile. Not within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days.
I do the same thing - I don't rush up into people's faces first thing and say "DUD3 J00R S0 G01NG 2 H3LL!!!1" first thing either. However, I feel that what I believe in is objectively, ultimately true, and that NOT being "belligerent," as you say it, is irresponsible of me. To me, it'd be like knowing that there was going to be a bomb attack somewhere but not warning people about it. I don't force the matter either; if people are curious I'll talk about it, but otherwise I don't rant about it all the time.

Telling someone you are religious will not get you to heaven. Mentioning God or one of his prophets in nearly every sentence is not faith. Its taking Gods name in vain, using it to further yourself and, you hope, others perception of you.
Some people do proselytize to further their own goals. These people are despicable. It is however better to err on the side of "noisiness" than silence. "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matthew 18:19+20

I DON'T CARE. PLEASE SHUT UP. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR FAITH DO IT THROUGH ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SPREAD YOUR FAITH, DO IT BY EXAMPLE, NOT WORDS.
What you're saying is a mix of actually Christian ideals and something else radically opposed to it. Christians are supposed to live their faith through their action. Some do not, but frankly there is no religion or worldview that hasn't had hypocrites in it. You're also actually coming close to quoting St. Francis of Assisi, iirc: something along the lines of "Preach always, and if necessary, use words." However, what I think you want is, at most, people to stop proselytizing; at least, people here to shut up about it. However, actions do speak volumes, but lets look at it this way: lets say I live a "good" life, and somebody notices. They see something different, but don't know what it is, and they're curious. If I never talk about my faith, how will they ever learn more about it or come to accept it?

Honest Question.
If preaching is TABOO for you, does that means that you cannot preach or that you cannot be preached to.

if I am wrong and I means you cannot be preached to, then you cannot blame Christianity or any other religion for being Billigerant, but your religion for actually forcing your ears close. (which I hope is not the case.)

BTW. what religion are you that bans Preaching?

I'm a Bahai. I don't think the religions themselves are belligerent, just SOME of the people from those religions. As a Bahai, I cannot preach, but I am perfectly free to listen to someone preaching. I am expected to come to know God through my own Independent Invesitigation Of The Truth.I usually don't listen to preaching, but a good sermon can be pleasant and challenging to listen to. I feel preaching and sermons are two different things. Sermons happen in religious houses, during religious services. I can choose to be there. Preaching is something I can't always avoid and its unasked for.

I am expected to spread my faith by teaching through example, a much more powerful motivator than preaching.

You're being religiously belligerant too... By trying to enfore YOU'RE religous beliefs of not preaching to other people. :P

NO! :mad: I'm saying I don't want to hear it.

there is always going to be organized religion. You will never be able to get rid of it. You can't ban it though some have tried and failed. Organized religion is here to stay.

You're damned right it is! Especially with the exciting new directions orgainzed religion could take to promote itself to today's trendy youth with their go-go-lifestyles. Organized religion, if it were to try hard enough, could easily infiltrate any and every aspect of modern life, from internet and TV ads to helpful magazines offering celebrity dirt and tips for girls on how to make their busts look bustier, all in the Lord's name of course. There could even be some sort of Organized Religion style theme park. The possibilities really are endless there, what with David vs. Golliath dueling rollercoasters and some sort of "Escape from Soddom" fun-house/arcade game where you and your pals quite literally "cover your asses" all the way to safety! Yessir, organized religion is HOT HOT HOT this summer, and it's here to stay!

NO! :mad: I'm saying I don't want to hear it.

But the reason you gave for people to stop posting religious advertising was stuff from your faith. Thereby, at lest subconsciously, you expect them to do ask you ask because of your relgion. Ergo missionizing.

So let me get this straight, you are mad because you are sick of people preaching about the invisable man they believe in to you because it insults you and the rules of the invisable man you beleave in? Here's a quick question: why is religion even being mentioned? Why do people feel the need to trump their faith to others? I know some religions require it (catholism) but come on no one wants to hear it. heres an idea how about all you fundamentalist go find eachother 12th century style? ok?


(Athiest and proud of it, read bible, tora, taulman (can't spell leave me alone), and Koron so I am not ignorant about this subject).


Thank you for reading my rant.

You're damned right it is! Especially with the exciting new directions orgainzed religion could take to promote itself to today's trendy youth with their go-go-lifestyles. Organized religion, if it were to try hard enough, could easily infiltrate any and every aspect of modern life, from internet and TV ads to helpful magazines offering celebrity dirt and tips for girls on how to make their busts look bustier, all in the Lord's name of course. There could even be some sort of Organized Religion style theme park. The possibilities really are endless there, what with David vs. Golliath dueling rollercoasters and some sort of "Escape from Soddom" fun-house/arcade game where you and your pals quite literally "cover your asses" all the way to safety! Yessir, organized religion is HOT HOT HOT this summer, and it's here to stay!

Not all (in fact, most) individuals in authority in relgions are there out of genuine faith-Not to make money or for power. So, your post was quite unnessary... although, incrediablly funny. :)

You're damned right it is! Especially with the exciting new directions orgainzed religion could take to promote itself to today's trendy youth with their go-go-lifestyles. Organized religion, if it were to try hard enough, could easily infiltrate any and every aspect of modern life, from internet and TV ads to helpful magazines offering celebrity dirt and tips for girls on how to make their busts look bustier, all in the Lord's name of course. There could even be some sort of Organized Religion style theme park. The possibilities really are endless there, what with David vs. Golliath dueling rollercoasters and some sort of "Escape from Soddom" fun-house/arcade game where you and your pals quite literally "cover your asses" all the way to safety! Yessir, organized religion is HOT HOT HOT this summer, and it's here to stay!

EXCUSE me? There will be no such thing!
This country was FOUNDED on the principle that the religious were to practice their religions in the PRIVACY of their OWN HOMES. ANY public display of religion is a violation of the CENTRAL TENETS OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT HOLD THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER!
If the Founding Fathers were here today, they would set us straight. ALL religions should practice QUIETLY, in SPECIALLY DESIGNATED CONCRETE RELIGIOUS YARDS, where they BELONG!

I'm a Bahai. I don't think the religions themselves are belligerent, just SOME of the people from those religions. As a Bahai, I cannot preach, but I am perfectly free to listen to someone preaching. I am expected to come to know God through my own Independent Invesitigation Of The Truth.I usually don't listen to preaching, but a good sermon can be pleasant and challenging to listen to. I feel preaching and sermons are two different things. Sermons happen in religious houses, during religious services. I can choose to be there. Preaching is something I can't always avoid and its unasked for.

I am expected to spread my faith by teaching through example, a much more powerful motivator than preaching.interesting, I've encountered some Bahai here on the threads and find their views refreshing. But how can you "Witness" by example to someone whom you don't interact with outside of written text? are they to be Deprived of your sharing?

Why do people feel the need to trump their faith to others? I know some religions require it (Catholism)


Catholics don't need to prothelytise. What you meant were those Southern Evangelical Fundies...

And Mormons. :D

uh oh The Downmarching Void... looks like this is going to turn into a "Preachy" thread... :rolleyes:

But the reason you gave for people to stop posting religious advertising was stuff from your faith. Thereby, at lest subconsciously, you expect them to do ask you ask because of your relgion. Ergo missionizing.
Once again, NO. The reason I gave is I DON'T CARE.

ONE of the many reasons it bothers me is that in my faith it is taboo. Other reasons are:

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I give up, it's like trying to have a conversation with a pitbull.

Once again, NO. The reason I gave is I DON'T CARE.

ONE of the many reasons it bothers me is that in my faith it is taboo. Other reasons are:

1) I DON'T CARE. (...) I DON'T CARE. I DON'T CARE.I DON'T CARE. I DON'T CARE. I DON'T CARE.

I give up, it's like trying to have a conversation with a pitbull.

He's RIGHT! You people are IGNORANT CANINES BRED SPECIFICALLY FOR FIGHTING OTHER DOGS!

Are you all right? we've only been going at our little 'private' side-discussion for about 5 minutes, and yet you seem incrediablly frustrated (enough to call me names even...) I apologise if I offended you, I was simply trying to point out [percieved] hypocrisy in your original post.

Please forgive me if I have offended you.

EXCUSE me? There will be no such thing!
This country was FOUNDED on the principle that the religious were to practice their religions in the PRIVACY of their OWN HOMES. ANY public display of religion is a violation of the CENTRAL TENETS OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT HOLD THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER!
If the Founding Fathers were here today, they would set us straight. ALL religions should practice QUIETLY, in SPECIALLY DESIGNATED CONCRETE RELIGIOUS YARDS, where they BELONG!

Uh-oh! Break out the rash-guard because someone here sounds a little RED! In case you didn't notice, one of the best things about America is our concept of a capitalist, free-market economy. Just because my means of making a living might conflict with your religious views does not mean I must shut down my DREAMS! Now when I'm rolling in the dough I'll gladly buy you a plane ticket back to RUSSIA you commie, but until then BUTT OUT!

EXCUSE me? There will be no such thing!
This country was FOUNDED on the principle that the religious were to practice their religions in the PRIVACY of their OWN HOMES. ANY public display of religion is a violation of the CENTRAL TENETS OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT HOLD THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER!
If the Founding Fathers were here today, they would set us straight. ALL religions should practice QUIETLY, in SPECIALLY DESIGNATED CONCRETE RELIGIOUS YARDS, where they BELONG!
No the heck it wasn't. The Constitution never banned people from exercising their faiths in public. In fact, the founders encouraged it.
You must be confusing the founders with Joseph Stalin and Chairman Mao who both said the same thing you are saying.

So let me get this straight, you are mad because you are sick of people preaching about the invisable man they believe in to you because it insults you and the rules of the invisable man you beleave in? Here's a quick question: why is religion even being mentioned? Why do people feel the need to trump their faith to others? I know some religions require it (catholism) but come on no one wants to hear it. heres an idea how about all you fundamentalist go find eachother 12th century style? ok?


(Athiest and proud of it, read bible, tora, taulman (can't spell leave me alone), and Koron so I am not ignorant about this subject).


Thank you for reading my rant.

Catholisism has a capital C in that context.

Christianity in General requires a conserted effort to convert people to Christianity, it is a God given Obligation (Matt 18:19-20). Dont have a go at Catholics for something that the whole of Christianity should be doing.

Christianity in General requires a conserted effort to convert people to Christianity, it is a God given Obligation (Matt 18:19-20).

Really? Oh...

CONVERT! CONVERT!

There.. all better. :)

Once again, NO. The reason I gave is I DON'T CARE.
[snip]
I give up, it's like trying to have a conversation with a pitbull.
I for one honor your request, however, you can also exercise your freedom of choice and just avoid such threads...

I suggest stepping back and taking a deep breath... in fact 10 breaths... no need to get rude. :D

EXCUSE me? There will be no such thing!
This country was FOUNDED on the principle that the religious were to practice their religions in the PRIVACY of their OWN HOMES. ANY public display of religion is a violation of the CENTRAL TENETS OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT HOLD THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER!
If the Founding Fathers were here today, they would set us straight. ALL religions should practice QUIETLY, in SPECIALLY DESIGNATED CONCRETE RELIGIOUS YARDS, where they BELONG!
Nope no it was not … may want to check your history

EXCUSE me? There will be no such thing!
This country was FOUNDED on the principle that the religious were to practice their religions in the PRIVACY of their OWN HOMES. ANY public display of religion is a violation of the CENTRAL TENETS OF THE CONSTITUTION THAT HOLD THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER!
If the Founding Fathers were here today, they would set us straight. ALL religions should practice QUIETLY, in SPECIALLY DESIGNATED CONCRETE RELIGIOUS YARDS, where they BELONG!

Hey, not everyone is American...

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

- Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Articles 18 and 19

Really? Oh...

CONVERT! CONVERT!

There.. all better. :)

You wouldn't happen to be taking the piss would you?

You wouldn't happen to be taking the piss would you?

I'm sorry, I'm American... what do you mean by 'piss'?

Uh-oh! Break out the rash-guard because someone here sounds a little RED! In case you didn't notice, one of the best things about America is our concept of a capitalist, free-market economy. Just because my means of making a living might conflict with your religious views does not mean I must shut down my DREAMS! Now when I'm rolling in the dough I'll gladly buy you a plane ticket back to RUSSIA you commie, but until then BUTT OUT!

COMMIE?! Somebody deport this UNABASHED RACIST to an island for IGNORANT BIBLE BEATERS WITH NOTHING BUT THE EXPANSION OF THEIR OWN COFFERS ON THEIR MIND!
This whole forum is full of EVIL MCCARTHYITES bent only on USING the IGNORANT MASSES to produce HARMFUL CHEMICAL WEAPONS to commit MASS GENOCIDE on INNOCENT VILLAGERS IN LESS FORTUNATE COUNTRIES! The only solution is to RISE UP AGAINST THE BOURGEOISIE and SPREAD THE WEALTH that they have AMORALLY STOLEN from the people among EVERYONE, regardless of RACE, RELIGION, NATIONALITY, LANGUAGE, CRIMINAL RECORD, or STATUS ON THE MEGAN'S LAW WEBSITE!

COMMIE?! Somebody deport this UNABASHED RACIST to an island for IGNORANT BIBLE BEATERS WITH NOTHING BUT THE EXPANSION OF THEIR OWN COFFERS ON THEIR MIND!
This whole forum is full of EVIL MCCARTHYITES bent only on USING the IGNORANT MASSES to produce HARMFUL CHEMICAL WEAPONS to commit MASS GENOCIDE on INNOCENT VILLAGERS IN LESS FORTUNATE COUNTRIES! The only solution is to RISE UP AGAINST THE BOURGEOISIE and SPREAD THE WEALTH that they have AMORALLY STOLEN from the people among EVERYONE, regardless of RACE, RELIGION, NATIONALITY, LANGUAGE, CRIMINAL RECORD, or STATUS ON THE MEGAN'S LAW WEBSITE!*rubs eyes*
please don't shout... it's hard on the eyes... :(

Are you all right? we've only been going at our little 'private' side-discussion for about 5 minutes, and yet you seem incrediablly frustrated (enough to call me names even...) I apologise if I offended you, I was simply trying to point out [percieved] hypocrisy in your original post.

Please forgive me if I have offended you.

I unfortunately have a short fuse. The insult was uncalled for. Forgive you? In a flash. Its frustration, my responses to you were coloured by other posts by other people in this thread.

The frustration is genuine however. My declaration was not well worded. I wanted to give a reason for my deeper felings about the subject and choose a poor example, poorly worded.

As to Nekone's question regarding Witnessing: If I can live my life in a good and proper manner, and practice the word of God through my own good works and actions, people will ASK me about my religion. THEN I may mention our Holy Writings and such freely. This guarentees that the person being deepened in the knowledge of God will do so entirely of their own volition, with an open mind and heart. Whether or not they choose to delve further become a Bahai is entirely up to them. You may be shocked by how effective this is.

COMMIE?! Somebody deport this UNABASHED RACIST to an island for IGNORANT BIBLE BEATERS WITH NOTHING BUT THE EXPANSION OF THEIR OWN COFFERS ON THEIR MIND!
This whole forum is full of EVIL MCCARTHYITES bent only on USING the IGNORANT MASSES to produce HARMFUL CHEMICAL WEAPONS to commit MASS GENOCIDE on INNOCENT VILLAGERS IN LESS FORTUNATE COUNTRIES! The only solution is to RISE UP AGAINST THE BOURGEOISIE and SPREAD THE WEALTH that they have AMORALLY STOLEN from the people among EVERYONE, regardless of RACE, RELIGION, NATIONALITY, LANGUAGE, CRIMINAL RECORD, or STATUS ON THE MEGAN'S LAW WEBSITE!
I think we need to stop feeding the troll.

I'm sorry, I'm American... what do you mean by 'piss'?

Sorry, I think that's an Aussie turn of phrase...

It is really just a crude way of saying "are you making fun of me?"

I think we need to stop feeding the troll.

*agrees*

I unfortunately have a short fuse. The insult was uncalled for. Forgive you? In a flash. Its frustration, my responses to you were coloured by other posts by other people in this thread.

The frustration is genuine however. My declaration was not well worded. I wanted to give a reason for my deeper felings about the subject and choose a poor example, poorly worded.

As to Nekone's question regarding Witnessing: If I can live my life in a good and proper manner, and practice the word of God through my own good works and actions, people will ASK me about my religion. THEN I may mention our Holy Writings and such freely. This guarentees that the person being deepened in the knowledge of God will do so entirely of their own volition, with an open mind and heart. Whether or not they choose to delve further become a Bahai is entirely up to them. You may be shocked by how effective this is.we all get upset when something hits close to the heart... and Faith is as close to the heart you can get. I too choose this method tho I am christian myself. That is why I am trying (emphasis on Trying) to stay out of the preachy threads. I find it's easier on the blood pressure.

COMMIE?! Somebody deport this UNABASHED RACIST to an island for IGNORANT BIBLE BEATERS WITH NOTHING BUT THE EXPANSION OF THEIR OWN COFFERS ON THEIR MIND!
This whole forum is full of EVIL MCCARTHYITES bent only on USING the IGNORANT MASSES to produce HARMFUL CHEMICAL WEAPONS to commit MASS GENOCIDE on INNOCENT VILLAGERS IN LESS FORTUNATE COUNTRIES! The only solution is to RISE UP AGAINST THE BOURGEOISIE and SPREAD THE WEALTH that they have AMORALLY STOLEN from the people among EVERYONE, regardless of RACE, RELIGION, NATIONALITY, LANGUAGE, CRIMINAL RECORD, or STATUS ON THE MEGAN'S LAW WEBSITE!


Oh, so now you go after the size of my coffer huh? Well let me tell you something: MY COFFER IS AT LEAST 10 INCHES BIGGER THAN YOURS AND WHEN ALL THE LADIES SEE IT THEY SHOUT OUT "HALLELUJAH!"

Oh, so now you go after the size of my coffer huh? Well let me tell you something: MY COFFER IS AT LEAST 10 INCHES BIGGER THAN YOURS AND WHEN ALL THE LADIES SEE IT THEY SHOUT OUT "HALLELUJAH!"

I'll have you know that the SIZE of a man's COFFER is no indication of his performance in a TRANSACTION, and many potential buyers PREFER smaller coffers for their compactness, efficiency, and exoticness!

Sorry, I think that's an Aussie turn of phrase...

It is really just a crude way of saying "are you making fun of me?"

No, not at all. It was moreso an attempt to make up for my erroneous statement in my previous post (concerning evangelism).

we all get upset when something hits close to the heart... and Faith is as close to the heart you can get. I too choose this method tho I am christian myself. That is why I am trying (emphasis on Trying) to stay out of the preachy threads. I find it's easier on the blood pressure.
I avoid them too, but no because I don't like to talk religion, (religion is a hobby of mine) but the threads on here about the subject are pretty boring and are just repeats of all the religious threads from before them.

I'll have you know that the SIZE of a man's COFFER is no indication of his performance in a TRANSACTION, and many potential buyers PREFER smaller coffers for their compactness, efficiency, and exoticness!


Yeah, sure, they think that at first, but once I "pay" them a visit and give them a little tithing and good cheer they always get DOWN ON THIER KNEES and pray to God to forgive their past ways! OH YEAH!

well, I gotta be going now...
Whittier-, The Downmarching Void, nice talking with you,

Keep the Faith... which ever Faith you Keep. :D

but the threads on here about the subject are pretty boring and are just repeats of all the religious threads from before them.

THe same with most controversial topics on NS...

Yeah, sure, they think that at first, but once I "pay" them a visit and give them a little tithing and good cheer they always get DOWN ON THIER KNEES and pray to God to forgive their past ways! OH YEAH!

But then they come back to me, crying, and I "liberate" them from the "totalitarian yoke" of "religion" and show them that "true happiness" comes from "erradicating the right wing" and "getting in touch with your inner feelings". OH!

But then they come back to me, crying, and I "liberate" them from the "totalitarian yoke" of "religion" and show them that "true happiness" comes from "erradicating the right wing" and "getting in touch with your inner feelings". OH!


No right wings shall be eradicated, my coffer leans long to the left!

Oddly enough, I don't mind discussing religion myeself (well, duh...) DISCUSS is the key word. IRL it irks me when someone speaks of religion the same way a snake oil salesman hawks his "remedies" I know I have a choice as to what threads I participate in. However, there are people here who manage to insinuate (rather clumsily) their religious views into near every post they make.

I intentionally used the term "Religiously Belligerent" because it describes a small but incredibly vocal group of people here and IRL. If someone feels they have an understanding of God, thats great. There is NO need for them to share it with all and sundry at every opportunity. Nekone and Arx Angelus: I had hoped it would be obvious that I wasn't including people such as yourself in my statement. It was my miscommunication which was to blame if you thought otherwise. Thankfully, my temper has subsided and I am able to listen once more. To those interested in a discussion, not broadsides.

No right wings shall be eradicated, my coffer leans long to the left!

So did HITLER'S!

Who the heck do you think you are dictating to people that they can't talk about their religious beliefs? If you want stalinism go move to China.

do you actualli no anithing about china? stalin is russian and what you refer to as stalinism is more commonli know as communism which has nothin against talkin about religion.

do you actualli no anithing about china? stalin is russian and what you refer to as stalinism is more commonli know as communism which has nothin against talkin about religion.

Isn't China Maoist? Not Stalinist?

Dont stick your face in other people's conversations then. If you don't like threads about religion don't read them.
Religious freedom does not give you the right to tell other people they can't talk religion just because you don't like it. Ever hear of the 1st amendment? Its called freedom of speech.

not everyone here is from america. Check my location! Australia in winter!

Mentioning your lord and saviour, --Fill in the Blank-- doesn't impress me. What denomination you are doesn't impress me. What you SAY you beleive in means nothing to me. I am religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people don't care. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, AFTER I have known them for awhile. Not within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days.

K, this is like Madlibs, right?

Mentioning your LACK OF lord and saviour, ATHEISM doesn't impress me. You don't impress me. What you SAY you DON'T believe in means nothing to me. I am NOT religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people DO care AND THAT SENSE OF CARING IS SOMETIMES REFLECTED IN THEIR ACTIONS AND WORDS AND THEIR POSITIONS AS THE MAJORITY IN THIS NATION AND OTHERS. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, REGARDLESS IF I have known them for awhile. WHETHER IT IS within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days, BECAUSE KNOWING A PERSON IS NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR CARING ABOUT OTHERS AND I ACCEPT THAT IS A VIRTUE FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

I'm an agnostic, but a growing number of athiests sound no different than anyone preaching from a pulpit, trying to win others to your side and increasing zeal amongst your followers. You do realize that rhetoric such as what started this thread is what is INCREASING THE FERVOR OF THE PEOPLE WITH FAITH? If Christianity, which is what I believe the initial post is targeting, was so overbearing, trust me, you athiests would not be able to exist in a public forum...and yet *gasp* you are tolerated and protected and sometimes even catered to. Now, what's pissing me off is that you guys happily use interpretations of the Constitution and other laws chip away at traditions and beliefs, but as soon as the majority tries to take something back, you cry THEOCRACY! I believe the Constitution protects the right of athiests and agnostics to exist, but it doesn't give us the right to attack the majority, or take away and belittle things that they've always had.

Most athiests have incorporated into a de facto faith. "Apatheism" is the real atheism.

So did HITLER'S!

How would YOU know?!?!?!?

Isn't China Maoist? Not Stalinist?

i think u'll find mao ze dung (i hav no idea how its wrtitten in english) is dead. my dad has a statue of him holdin an umbrella

do you actualli no anithing about china? stalin is russian and what you refer to as stalinism is more commonli know as communism which has nothin against talkin about religion.
if you don't understand what I am saying don't act like you do.

Stalinism condemns and bans religion. Religion was banned under Stalin just like its banned in China.

Religion was un-banned in china in the mid 80's.
They still crack down on some groups though... but for the most part they let people practice their faith.

not everyone here is from america. Check my location! Australia in winter!
I think your nation's constitution might say something similar though. Does it not?

Authority IN RELIGIONS. Like the Pope or somthing.

I think your nation's constitution might say something similar though. Does it not?

im 14 do u think i read my countries constitution? no one else does

K, this is like Madlibs, right?

Mentioning your LACK OF lord and saviour, ATHEISM doesn't impress me. You don't impress me. What you SAY you DON'T believe in means nothing to me. I am NOT religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people DO care AND THAT SENSE OF CARING IS SOMETIMES REFLECTED IN THEIR ACTIONS AND WORDS AND THEIR POSITIONS AS THE MAJORITY IN THIS NATION AND OTHERS. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, REGARDLESS IF I have known them for awhile. WHETHER IT IS within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days, BECAUSE KNOWING A PERSON IS NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR CARING ABOUT OTHERS AND I ACCEPT THAT IS A VIRTUE FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

I'm an agnostic, but a growing number of athiests sound no different than anyone preaching from a pulpit, trying to win others to your side and increasing zeal amongst your followers. You do realize that rhetoric such as what started this thread is what is INCREASING THE FERVOR OF THE PEOPLE WITH FAITH? If Christianity, which is what I believe the initial post is targeting, was so overbearing, trust me, you athiests would not be able to exist in a public forum...and yet *gasp* you are tolerated and protected and sometimes even catered to. Now, what's pissing me off is that you guys happily use interpretations of the Constitution and other laws chip away at traditions and beliefs, but as soon as the majority tries to take something back, you cry THEOCRACY! I believe the Constitution protects the right of athiests and agnostics to exist, but it doesn't give us the right to attack the majority, or take away and belittle things that they've always had.

Most athiests have incorporated into a de facto faith. "Apatheism" is the real atheism.

I'm not an Atheist actually, far from it. You've got a good point though.

Religion was un-banned in china in the mid 80's.
They still crack down on some groups though... but for the most part they let people practice their faith.
No there is no religious freedom in china. The only religion people are allowed to practice is the kind described by Kill Your Momma.
All religions have to be state certified and are tightly controlled by the government down to the sermons. Public displays of religious faith are illegal and can get you flogged or sent to a labor camp. That is not religious freedom. That is not allowing people to practice their faiths.

if you don't understand what I am saying don't act like you do.

Stalinism condemns and bans religion. Religion was banned under Stalin just like its banned in China.

There are a lot of active Buddhist temples in China, as are a handful of various Christian churches. The difference is that they don't recognise the Dalai Lama and the authority of the Vatican, respectively, since it would be a foreign influence on the Chinese.

I'm not saying I agree with their policy in that respect. I'm just saying it's not banned in China, even though it's grossly restricted. Most Chinese are culturally very secular anyway.

about how arrogant do you have to be to believe that your way of looking at life, the universe, and everything is the only way possible. why the hell is everyone so preocuppied with converting everyone else? From practically the whole of Christianity's point of view, a Buddhist Monk will go to hell because he did not pledge allegiance to Jesus Christ. Ghandi is currently sitting in hellfire and damnation because he wasn't christian (although the Pope may have forgiven him and given him a get out of jail free card when Ghandi died)
I've never understood why religion has to be an all or nothing proposition with people. Isn't it enough to believe what you do without having to tell everyone else how damned they are (for all eternity, I might add) because they don't buy your brand of religion? If God is merciful, why damn someone for all eternity for a finite amount of sin--especially something so trivial as taking a different approach to spirituality?

There are a lot of active Buddhist temples in China, as are a handful of various Christian churches. The difference is that they don't recognise the Dalai Lama and the authority of the Vatican, respectively, since it would be a foreign influence on the Chinese.

I'm not saying I agree with their policy in that respect. I'm just saying it's not banned in China, even though it's grossly restricted. Most Chinese are culturally very secular anyway.

Ditto Whittier-

im 14 do u think i read my countries constitution? no one else does
you should. Everyone should read their nation's constitution. How do you know what your country's constitution allows unless you actually read it?

There are a lot of active Buddhist temples in China, as are a handful of various Christian churches. The difference is that they don't recognise the Dalai Lama and the authority of the Vatican, respectively, since it would be a foreign influence on the Chinese.

I'm not saying I agree with their policy in that respect. I'm just saying it's not banned in China, even though it's grossly restricted. Most Chinese are culturally very secular anyway.
Restricted religion cannot be called religious freedom. Religious freedom is when there is zero government regulation, censoring, or licensing of religious practice or groups.

Restricted religion cannot be called religious freedom. Religious freedom is when there is zero government regulation, censoring, or licensing of religious practice or groups.

I never said they had religious freedom. I just said it was UNBANNED in the 80's.

There are a lot of active Buddhist temples in China, as are a handful of various Christian churches. The difference is that they don't recognise the Dalai Lama and the authority of the Vatican, respectively, since it would be a foreign influence on the Chinese.

I'm not saying I agree with their policy in that respect. I'm just saying it's not banned in China, even though it's grossly restricted. Most Chinese are culturally very secular anyway.

Whittier- is quite correct. Those Buddhist Temples now in China are the sames ones sacked and pillaged with the monks executed over the course of the Cultural Revolution and before it. The many Taoist Temples have not been reinstated, nor the hundreds of Taoist Moansteries that once doted parts of China. The Buddhism is state sanctioned, and really for show. The Chinese gov't doesn't want to be seen as such a baddy in the west, thus they allow a few piecemeal religious freedoms.

Restricted religion cannot be called religious freedom. Religious freedom is when there is zero government regulation, censoring, or licensing of religious practice or groups.

Well, I certainly didn't say that it was freedom. But the issue you brought up was that there was zero religion allowed in China, but I was just saying it is, just in a shamefully restricted form.

Whittier- is quite correct. Those Buddhist Temples now in China are the sames ones sacked and pillaged with the monks executed over the course of the Cultural Revolution and before it. The many Taoist Temples have not been reinstated, nor the hundreds of Taoist Moansteries that once doted parts of China. The Buddhism is state sanctioned, and really for show. The Chinese gov't doesn't want to be seen as such a baddy in the west, thus they allow a few piecemeal religious freedoms.

Of course, I didn't say he was wrong, and I was never arguing that there was religious freedom in China. I'm very aware of the political situation and state policy as it relates to religious practise. See the location field next to this post.

I'm not an Atheist actually, far from it. You've got a good point though.

Yes, that wasn't directed toward anyone...I'm just sick of seeing the "OMG religion is teh Ghey!!!!11" posts from what usually are individuals just as ignorant as the people they would mock. Good debate is never antagonistic.

I never said they had religious freedom. I just said it was UNBANNED in the 80's.
then you really mean "unbanned" which means it really wasn't unbanned, they just created their own tightly controlled state versions.

then you really mean "unbanned" which means it really wasn't unbanned, they just created their own tightly controlled state versions.

Right. That's much closer to the way things really are on the ground in the PRC.

Right. That's much closer to the way things really are on the ground in the PRC.
in that case I agree strongly.

...yeah, still trying to figure out why anyone's talking about religion, or the lack thereof, on this forum. *grabbing megaphone* Attention, citizens of [insert nation here]! You are playing a game. Please, return to your homes. I repeat, this is only a game.

Although, you know, maybe they're onto something. You know- on second thought- Yeah, I think I'm gonna go tell my teammates on halo about Jesus!!

I. Legal Protection of the Freedom of Religious Belief

Nevertheless, since the 1980s some pernicious organizations have sprung up in certain areas of China, which engage in illegal and even criminal activities under the signboard of religion. Some of the heads of these pseudo-religions distort religious doctrines, create heresies, deceive the masses, refuse to obey the State's laws and decrees, and incite people to overthrow the government. They are a serious danger to the normal life and productive activities of the people. The broad masses of the people and personages of the religious circles detest this phenomenon, and so, in order to safeguard the public interest and the sanctity of the law, and to better protect the people's right to freedom of religious belief and normal religious activities, China's judicial organs punish law-breakers and criminals who severely endanger the society and the public interest in accordance with the law. No one in China is punished because of his or her religious belief.

thats the propaganda behind it

I. Legal Protection of the Freedom of Religious Belief

Nevertheless, since the 1980s some pernicious organizations have sprung up in certain areas of China, which engage in illegal and even criminal activities under the signboard of religion. Some of the heads of these pseudo-religions distort religious doctrines, create heresies, deceive the masses, refuse to obey the State's laws and decrees, and incite people to overthrow the government. They are a serious danger to the normal life and productive activities of the people. The broad masses of the people and personages of the religious circles detest this phenomenon, and so, in order to safeguard the public interest and the sanctity of the law, and to better protect the people's right to freedom of religious belief and normal religious activities, China's judicial organs punish law-breakers and criminals who severely endanger the society and the public interest in accordance with the law. No one in China is punished because of his or her religious belief.

thats the propaganda behind it

notice they made it broad enough to cover every religious group whether legitimate or illegitimate. they're all pretty much illegal.

You wouldn't happen to be taking the piss would you?

OH WONDERFUL!!! AUSTRALIAN SLANG! I LOVE IT!!!

OH WONDERFUL!!! AUSTRALIAN SLANG! I LOVE IT!!!
Yeah, no point having a blue over our slang.
Myself, I'm amused over the confusion between the British and Australian slang for what "pull" means.

Our constitution, as far as I can see, doesn't guarantee us free speech. It definately doesn't guarantee us the right to bear arms.
It DOES say that the government must not pass any laws about religion, either forcing us to worship in a specific way, or banning us from practicing our religion.

I see a lot of americans talking about the first amendment. They seem to think that the right to free speech lets them say whatever they want. Heck, I'm an Australian, and know that's not right.

Sure, you have the right to say whatever you want. In your own time, on your own property, with your own distribution channels. This here is the nationstates forum, owned by jolt. You do NOT have the right to free speech here, only jolt does. Jolt can suppress your permission to talk about religions, abortions, starwars, or anything else they want. They obviously choose not to, however.

The other thing is, although you might have the right to talk about whatever you want (a right granted by jolt, NOT by your constitution), that means that anyone else has the right to disagree, or tell you that you're wrong.
Someone here saying "I don't want to hear about your religion" is NOT going against your constutition. They are excercising their own right to state what they do and don't want to hear.

Having said all that, I'd like to request three things:
1) I'm really interested in religion, and religious debate. Can we please have more interesting religious debate on this forum
2) I'm sick of people mentioning religion where it's not appropriate. If we're discussion abortion, and your religious feelings affect your beliefs on the topic, by all means mention what religion you are, and how it changes your beliefs. Please don't mention your religion in situations where it doesn't have any bearing on the topic. The same goes for your sexuality.
3) When discussing religion, please give a meaningful response, and not a bible quote. There is no point talking to an atheist and saying "the bible says so" during a discussion. It just causes frustration for both sides of the argument, as you have no common ground.

Hoo-roo.

Why should I have to put up with that crap here too?

It's the same insignificant little concept that allows you to voice your opinion here, variously referred to as 'right to an opinion' and 'freedom of expression', which fly so long as they don't break the TOS of this site.

Ok.

Downmarching Void, I thought at first that you might be trolling with this topic and your rather repetitive spamming of "I DON'T CARE." I think that you didn't intend that after reading your other responses, but kindly be careful not to be so 'religiously belligerent'.

Sunshine an Puppies and Kill Your Momma, you're being OFFICIALLY WARNED for spamming and thread hijacking. Knock it off.

Folks, keep it civil.

I DON'T CARE. PLEASE SHUT UP. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR FAITH DO IT THROUGH ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SPREAD YOUR FAITH, DO IT BY EXAMPLE, NOT WORDS.
Excellent advice. Unfortunately, few jealots will be able to hear it and even fewer will make an effort to follow it.

I'm not dictating anything to anyone.

"Open letter to the religiously belligerent" ... hmm, I doubt the title is going to win you any friends. Sounds like you're going to start dictating to me.

I'm saying I don't want to hear about someonelese religion unless I ask them about it.

That sounds like a dictation. In fact it sounds like "No religious person should talk about religion because they have no idea who might be offended so therefore they should never talk about it". So much for freedom of speech. And besides, starting these kinds of threads doesn't do that does it? Its a forum, if you don't like the thread, don't read it

Preaching is TABOO in my faith. Y'know, Taboo, as bad as heresy, as bad as blasphemy.

Interesting, what is it the church of political correctness? Not trying to flame but that's the only doctrine I see in that statement. Funny there are big debates over the things that should be shown on television and the same people that cry about religion being taboo are upset when religious people complain about sex and violence on TV, telling them to change the channel. Nice double standard.

I value my religious freedom. I only wish other people valued MY religious freedom as much as I do THEIRS.

But you don't. In fact you don't even value a religious person's right to free speech. Most a part of most religions is to tell other people about it. Since when is saying, "God loves you" a disrespect of your religion, which no one knows about since you didnt' tell them about it? Many people feel they've been asked by God to tell others what they believe, and that's a part of their religious freedom, if you are saying they can't then you don't respect that.

Go thump a Bible, but not in my face.

Are people here taking over your computer with religious messages until you believe? Are people on the street beating you over the head with Bibles until you give in? No? Then no one is "in your face". This is a forum! If you don't like what people are saying go to a different thread, or discuss it with them. On the street, tell them you aren't interested and walk away, if they don't leave you alone have them arrested for harrassment.

This whole thread is a troll.

Oddly enough, I don't mind discussing religion myeself (well, duh...) DISCUSS is the key word. IRL it irks me when someone speaks of religion the same way a snake oil salesman hawks his "remedies" I know I have a choice as to what threads I participate in. However, there are people here who manage to insinuate (rather clumsily) their religious views into near every post they make.

I intentionally used the term "Religiously Belligerent" because it describes a small but incredibly vocal group of people here and IRL. If someone feels they have an understanding of God, thats great. There is NO need for them to share it with all and sundry at every opportunity. Nekone and Arx Angelus: I had hoped it would be obvious that I wasn't including people such as yourself in my statement. It was my miscommunication which was to blame if you thought otherwise. Thankfully, my temper has subsided and I am able to listen once more. To those interested in a discussion, not broadsides.No sweat... I knew what were referring to. which is why I (I hope) wasn't confronting you with what or how you said but asked questions as to what was acceptable.

I know I sometimes seem Belligerent when I get excited about a thread... :rolleyes:

K, this is like Madlibs, right?

Mentioning your LACK OF lord and saviour, ATHEISM doesn't impress me. You don't impress me. What you SAY you DON'T believe in means nothing to me. I am NOT religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people DO care AND THAT SENSE OF CARING IS SOMETIMES REFLECTED IN THEIR ACTIONS AND WORDS AND THEIR POSITIONS AS THE MAJORITY IN THIS NATION AND OTHERS. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, REGARDLESS IF I have known them for awhile. WHETHER IT IS within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days, BECAUSE KNOWING A PERSON IS NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR CARING ABOUT OTHERS AND I ACCEPT THAT IS A VIRTUE FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

I'm an agnostic, but a growing number of athiests sound no different than anyone preaching from a pulpit, trying to win others to your side and increasing zeal amongst your followers. You do realize that rhetoric such as what started this thread is what is INCREASING THE FERVOR OF THE PEOPLE WITH FAITH? If Christianity, which is what I believe the initial post is targeting, was so overbearing, trust me, you athiests would not be able to exist in a public forum...and yet *gasp* you are tolerated and protected and sometimes even catered to. Now, what's pissing me off is that you guys happily use interpretations of the Constitution and other laws chip away at traditions and beliefs, but as soon as the majority tries to take something back, you cry THEOCRACY! I believe the Constitution protects the right of athiests and agnostics to exist, but it doesn't give us the right to attack the majority, or take away and belittle things that they've always had.

Most athiests have incorporated into a de facto faith. "Apatheism" is the real atheism.*standing ovation*

K, this is like Madlibs, right?

Mentioning your LACK OF lord and saviour, ATHEISM doesn't impress me. You don't impress me. What you SAY you DON'T believe in means nothing to me. I am NOT religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people DO care AND THAT SENSE OF CARING IS SOMETIMES REFLECTED IN THEIR ACTIONS AND WORDS AND THEIR POSITIONS AS THE MAJORITY IN THIS NATION AND OTHERS. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, REGARDLESS IF I have known them for awhile. WHETHER IT IS within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days, BECAUSE KNOWING A PERSON IS NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR CARING ABOUT OTHERS AND I ACCEPT THAT IS A VIRTUE FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

I'm an agnostic, but a growing number of athiests sound no different than anyone preaching from a pulpit, trying to win others to your side and increasing zeal amongst your followers. You do realize that rhetoric such as what started this thread is what is INCREASING THE FERVOR OF THE PEOPLE WITH FAITH? If Christianity, which is what I believe the initial post is targeting, was so overbearing, trust me, you athiests would not be able to exist in a public forum...and yet *gasp* you are tolerated and protected and sometimes even catered to. Now, what's pissing me off is that you guys happily use interpretations of the Constitution and other laws chip away at traditions and beliefs, but as soon as the majority tries to take something back, you cry THEOCRACY! I believe the Constitution protects the right of athiests and agnostics to exist, but it doesn't give us the right to attack the majority, or take away and belittle things that they've always had.

Most athiests have incorporated into a de facto faith. "Apatheism" is the real atheism.

But it does give us every right to criticize beliefs just as they have that same right

I may not agree with the first poster but he like they are only exercising their right to free speech and that should be protected even if we don’t like what we here (that includes the occasional “I am sick of preaching” thread (and this does not mean you do not have the right to disagree ) but they have every right to say it )

Ok.

Downmarching Void, I thought at first that you might be trolling with this topic and your rather repetitive spamming of "I DON'T CARE." I think that you didn't intend that after reading your other responses, but kindly be careful not to be so 'religiously belligerent'.

Sunshine an Puppies and Kill Your Momma, you're being OFFICIALLY WARNED for spamming and thread hijacking. Knock it off.

Folks, keep it civil.


Point taken. Shouldn't have posted the thread to begin with, but I have to live with the consequences. Oh well.

Funny. No one on the board, Christian or otherwise, asked me to tithe a red cent. ;) And as far as the collection plate thing goes, that's not actually mandatory. You're totally welcome to not contribute. That's why it's called an offering, not a shake-down.

The idea of tithing a part of your income is something else altogether acually, and from what I know after attending parish meetings, no one is keeping a list of who's tithed this year and who hasn't, and no one is actually forcing anyone to tithe. That money mostly goes toward maintenance and costs of operation. There's no implied 'buying your way into heaven' associated with that. Interestingly though, that concept exists in Buddhism. It's known as accumulating merit. My dad's a devout Buddhist and I have great respect for his beliefs, but that's another story.

Cheers.

Hmmm...nice thought and generally true, but not always. There are congregations that REQUIRE tithing. My mother, when she was younger, was told in Sunday school, when her father had fallen on some hard times, that she would nto be welcome back at church because her parents were not keeping up with tithing. Ever since then, she has refused to take part in the institution known as organized religion. I myself have not been to a church that required tithing, but I am well aware they exist and will not take part in them.

My fiancee used to go to a church that, though I am not sure if they require tithing (something tells me they do), has been collecting donations to build a giant organ. They are not collecting for someone's operation. Not for a new school, not for a house for a downtrodden family, and not even to build a new church for an old, dilapidated one. They want donations that will eventually total something like $66,000,000 for an organ. Yes, that's a 66 followed by SIX zeroes. Not three. SIX. For a fucking ORGAN. And you know what the kicker is? They ask for a MINIMUM donation of $7,500. People who would just wnat to contribute $100 or $500 can't do it. They won't even take a $1,000 or $2,500 donation from some kind soul who doesn't have a lot to give but is willing to give something substantial. If you can't give $7,500, fuck you...that's what they are telling their members. She's stopped going there, and I never started...besides, I don't have $7,500 to give to them for their stupid fucking organ. If I had that kind of money, I would buy a decent used car and maybe take a piss on their $66 million organ. Fuck those snotty bastards. Fuck them dead.

Open letter to the religiously belligerent

Newsflash: To those (of any creed) who seem hell bent on informing the world of their religious beliefs: I don't give a toss what your religion is.

Why should I?
Mentioning your lord and saviour, --Fill in the Blank-- doesn't impress me. What denomination you are doesn't impress me. What you SAY you beleive in means nothing to me. I am religious myself, however I have the common sense to realize most people don't care. In my day to day life, those that have a genuine curiosity or concern for my spiritual inclinations will ask me, AFTER I have known them for awhile. Not within 5 minutes, 5 hours or even 5 days.

Telling someone you are religious will not get you to heaven. Mentioning God or one of his prophets in nearly every sentence is not faith. Its taking Gods name in vain, using it to further yourself and, you hope, others perception of you.

I DON'T CARE. PLEASE SHUT UP. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE YOUR FAITH DO IT THROUGH ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. IF YOU FEEL THE NEED TO SPREAD YOUR FAITH, DO IT BY EXAMPLE, NOT WORDS.

Or, as Thomas Jefferson put it, "Our particular principles of religion are a subject of accountability to our god alone. I enquire after no man's and trouble none with mine; nor is it given to us in this life to know whether yours or mine, our friend's or our foe's, are exactly the right."

My fiancee used to go to a church that, though I am not sure if they require tithing (something tells me they do), has been collecting donations to build a giant organ. They are not collecting for someone's operation.

Oh, okay...thank you for clarifying. Damn my imagination, anyway! ;)

Hmmm...nice thought and generally true, but not always. There are congregations that REQUIRE tithing. My mother, when she was younger, was told in Sunday school, when her father had fallen on some hard times, that she would nto be welcome back at church because her parents were not keeping up with tithing. Ever since then, she has refused to take part in the institution known as organized religion. I myself have not been to a church that required tithing, but I am well aware they exist and will not take part in them.

My fiancee used to go to a church that, though I am not sure if they require tithing (something tells me they do), has been collecting donations to build a giant organ. They are not collecting for someone's operation. Not for a new school, not for a house for a downtrodden family, and not even to build a new church for an old, dilapidated one. They want donations that will eventually total something like $66,000,000 for an organ. Yes, that's a 66 followed by SIX zeroes. Not three. SIX. For a fucking ORGAN. And you know what the kicker is? They ask for a MINIMUM donation of $7,500. People who would just wnat to contribute $100 or $500 can't do it. They won't even take a $1,000 or $2,500 donation from some kind soul who doesn't have a lot to give but is willing to give something substantial. If you can't give $7,500, fuck you...that's what they are telling their members. She's stopped going there, and I never started...besides, I don't have $7,500 to give to them for their stupid fucking organ. If I had that kind of money, I would buy a decent used car and maybe take a piss on their $66 million organ. Fuck those snotty bastards. Fuck them dead.
:eek:
Okay ... that's more than just a little on the absurd side. I suppose I've been lucky enough to attend congregations that never acted so rediculously as to not accept people who don't have the money to tithe, or ask for money for a multi-million dollar organ. Maybe it's a denominational difference, seeing as how all of the Episcopal (Anglican) churches I've been to never punished people for their lack of tithing.
A $66 million organ. Lame.

Hmmm...nice thought and generally true, but not always. There are congregations that REQUIRE tithing. My mother, when she was younger, was told in Sunday school, when her father had fallen on some hard times, that she would nto be welcome back at church because her parents were not keeping up with tithing. Ever since then, she has refused to take part in the institution known as organized religion. I myself have not been to a church that required tithing, but I am well aware they exist and will not take part in them.

My fiancee used to go to a church that, though I am not sure if they require tithing (something tells me they do), has been collecting donations to build a giant organ. They are not collecting for someone's operation. Not for a new school, not for a house for a downtrodden family, and not even to build a new church for an old, dilapidated one. They want donations that will eventually total something like $66,000,000 for an organ. Yes, that's a 66 followed by SIX zeroes. Not three. SIX. For a fucking ORGAN. And you know what the kicker is? They ask for a MINIMUM donation of $7,500. People who would just wnat to contribute $100 or $500 can't do it. They won't even take a $1,000 or $2,500 donation from some kind soul who doesn't have a lot to give but is willing to give something substantial. If you can't give $7,500, fuck you...that's what they are telling their members. She's stopped going there, and I never started...besides, I don't have $7,500 to give to them for their stupid fucking organ. If I had that kind of money, I would buy a decent used car and maybe take a piss on their $66 million organ. Fuck those snotty bastards. Fuck them dead.

As someone who has been to various churches, I have to say like your whole post is completely made up. There are no churches that require tithes, there are no churches that require $7,000 minimum donations. All churches are happy to receive whatever you can give them. And they don't stop you at the door and badger you.
Whether the church spends it on someone's operation or on a new church building is not for you to pass judgment on. The purpose of the tithe and donations is to contribute to God's work. That includes paying for maintenance of the building and grounds and furniture inside the church. Including organs. Though I must say that NO church would waste $66 million on an organ. So that part of your story makes your whole post highly suspect.
Try going to a couple of different churches and ask them how they operate and what they do with the tithes and donations they get before you post any more false accusations.
This is how churches typically divide tithes and donations. Tithes go to the maintenance of the building and the grounds (including furniture, paint jobs, plumbing repair, electrical repair, lawn maintance, water bills, property taxes, etc,) and the rest is the Preacher's salary. Preaching on Sunday is a legitimate job just as much as the one you have. Except that the Preacher starves unless people pay tithes. You also have to remember that the Preacher also has a family (usually with children) that he has to feed.
Donations are seperate from tithes. They are earmarked for a specific purpose. Most churches have envelopes where you put the money and write down what you want it to be used for and the money can only be used for that purpose.
It is the donations that go toward things like missionary work or helping someone pay for an operation.

My fiancee used to go to a church that, though I am not sure if they require tithing (something tells me they do), has been collecting donations to build a giant organ. They are not collecting for someone's operation. Not for a new school, not for a house for a downtrodden family, and not even to build a new church for an old, dilapidated one. They want donations that will eventually total something like $66,000,000 for an organ. Yes, that's a 66 followed by SIX zeroes. Not three. SIX. For a fucking ORGAN. And you know what the kicker is? They ask for a MINIMUM donation of $7,500. People who would just wnat to contribute $100 or $500 can't do it. They won't even take a $1,000 or $2,500 donation from some kind soul who doesn't have a lot to give but is willing to give something substantial. If you can't give $7,500, fuck you...that's what they are telling their members. She's stopped going there, and I never started...besides, I don't have $7,500 to give to them for their stupid fucking organ. If I had that kind of money, I would buy a decent used car and maybe take a piss on their $66 million organ. Fuck those snotty bastards. Fuck them dead.

Have you considered that the reason for this is not that they are snobby, but because that they only want the money if you can spare it. If you can spare $7,500 for an organ you probarbly are very well off already. They dont want you to give your money to a cause which isn't benefiting anyone but the Church if you can't spare it. I can see the logic in that why can't you

Also please note, all swearing does is demonstrate a lack of vocabulary

[QUOTE=Brown Stick MenThis whole thread is a troll.[/QUOTE]

thats insultin 2 trolls

depends if they relli want 2 impress to come 2 the church. the organ in our town hall is HUGE! it comes 2 the roof of the massive ceilings and probabli costs more than $66 million