NationStates Jolt Archive

WARNING!
This thread is NOT a topic where the merits/suckiness/whatever of Star Wars will be discussed EXCEPT in circumstances where it directly relates to the topic of Star Wars IIIs sci-fi'ness or lack thereof.

For those who dont know what the topic title is talking about:
Science fiction is a form of speculative fiction principally dealing with the impact of imagined science and technology upon society and persons as individuals.
This (IMO) doesnt cover the half of it, but it'll do. Since there are a number of other 'types' of Sci-Fi, such as Warning and Apocolype, or Utopia/Dystopia. The general charecteristic is that technology is often more advanced than modern stuff.

Space Opera:
Space opera is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes romantic adventure, interstellar travel, and space battles where the main storyline is centred around interstellar conflict and character drama.
Which works fairly well, although I find that a bit of charecter drama never hurt a really good Sci-Fi story.

Of course you may have your own personal definitions.

Let the debate begin!
*fires off a blaster*

It wouldn't really qualify as Science Fiction, there are too many Fantasy-elements involved.

This (IMO) doesnt cover the half of it, but it'll do. Since there are a number of other 'types' of Sci-Fi, such as Warning and Apocolype, or Utopia/Dystopia. The general charecteristic is that technology is often more advanced than modern stuff.

No, I think it's a good definition, since nowhere it's stated that the science has to be a "natural" science. It could be social science: history, economy, politics, etc. as well. Most science fiction has a very high "what if" factor. And technology doesn't necessarily have to be more advanced. Harry Turtledove's American Empire series is sci-fi, and technology is less advanced.

WARNING!
This thread is NOT a topic where the merits/suckiness/whatever of Star Wars will be discussed EXCEPT in circumstances where it directly relates to the topic of Star Wars IIIs sci-fi'ness or lack thereof.

For those who dont know what the topic title is talking about:

This (IMO) doesnt cover the half of it, but it'll do. Since there are a number of other 'types' of Sci-Fi, such as Warning and Apocolype, or Utopia/Dystopia. The general charecteristic is that technology is often more advanced than modern stuff.

Space Opera:

Which works fairly well, although I find that a bit of charecter drama never hurt a really good Sci-Fi story.

Of course you may have your own personal definitions.

Let the debate begin!
*fires off a blaster*
if you ask any real science nerd (my dad) they would tell you that its a space opera. it has been ever since the first movie. thats not to deny the pure awesomeness of a lightsabre duel though :)

Star Wars movies - Space Opera

Star Wars universe and continuity - Science Fiction

They have sword fights and use magic. They rescue a princess (a kick arse princess, but a princess none the less). Instead of using a targeting device, a ghost tells Luke to use magic to destroy the death star. Darth Vader turns out to be the father of Luke, Leia, and C3PO.

I think that counts as space opera.

Space opera is a subgenre of science fiction that emphasizes romantic adventure, interstellar travel, and space battles where the main storyline is centred around interstellar conflict and character drama.

Since one is a subgenre of the other, doesn't that make the either/or question moot? If it fits in the subgenre of Space Opera (a term more or less created for Star Wars) then it would be in a subgenre of Science Fiction, therefore both.

Also, 'plausability' is not really a requirement of science fiction. If I wanted to watch what 'could be' I would watch NASA documentaries. I want the author to demonstrate a theme or idea by altering the world in a specific and intentional way that augments the story. I'm less interested in the 'specs' then I am the narrative-you know, the story?

Yoda sings?!? :eek:

Yoda sings?!? :eek:


Yah, Usually its "Its not easy being green".

Been a hard-core SW fan all my life....SW is a space opera.

Star Wars movies - Space Opera

Star Wars universe and continuity - Science Fiction

Agreed... I once saw a site that discussed Star Destroyers (their names, classes, weapons) and stuff like hyperspace jumps and photon torpedoes.

The funny thing was the people who posted there are among those who ran an exceptionally good site on the Imperial Japanese Navy of World War 2.

And if I'm not mistaken... here it is!

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/

Cathenia

I would call Star Wars fantasy, rather than sci-fi or space opera, it has all the classic elements good vs. evil, magic, strange races, monsters and so on.

WARNING!
This thread is NOT a topic where the merits/suckiness/whatever of Star Wars will be discussed EXCEPT in circumstances where it directly relates to the topic of Star Wars IIIs sci-fi'ness or lack thereof.

For those who dont know what the topic title is talking about:

This (IMO) doesnt cover the half of it, but it'll do. Since there are a number of other 'types' of Sci-Fi, such as Warning and Apocolype, or Utopia/Dystopia. The general charecteristic is that technology is often more advanced than modern stuff.

Space Opera:

Which works fairly well, although I find that a bit of charecter drama never hurt a really good Sci-Fi story.

Of course you may have your own personal definitions.

Let the debate begin!
*fires off a blaster*


It is both. Even the definitions you chose to use admit it. Read your definition for space opera again, it clearly tells you that space opera is a subgenre of science fiction. Therefore space operas are sci fi

Of COURSE Star Wars is space opera. It is THE space opera par excellence.

By the way, Wikipedia's definitions aren't always right, by far.

The original trilogy was pretty much the definitive Space opera. The prequals sort of lost their way a bit because they kept trying to explain everything (midichlorians) and also tried to ground the stories in more prosaic settings (Taxation disagreements or something). It still counts as space opera but it's a less coherent experience.

Since one is a subgenre of the other, doesn't that make the either/or question moot? If it fits in the subgenre of Space Opera (a term more or less created for Star Wars) then it would be in a subgenre of Science Fiction, therefore both.

I disagree with Wiki's classification of Space Opera as a "sub-genre" of Science Fiction. First off, the popular world is essentially clueless about real, functional generic classification (the trifecta which define a genre being: exigency, substantive and stylistic properties--with the little side-kick of unifying characteristics), which is why there's always trouble sorting between hip-hop and R&B and so forth--and why there's always so much (too much) covered by one genre of music or movies. And, to try to lend some sensibility to wiki’s genre definitions, 'Science Fiction', by definition, is supposed to focus on the science, primarily. 'Space Opera' is supposed to focus on the story--the stories just happen to take place in outer space. I think Wiki makes a mistake in classifying either as a sub-genre of the other. It's kind of like classifying a haiku a 'sub-genre' of sonnet.

Also, "Space Opera" isn't about Star Wars alone. To my knowledge the term's been around since Flash Gordon (1930s-ish). If that's the case, it wasn't "more or less created for Star Wars", even though Star Wars is the setting in which it’s most often mentioned now.

I have never heard of the term "space opera", but from the definition it appears to be a subset of science-fiction. Necessarily, since space travel at present is utterly unconventional and not available to the public, so-called "space opera" needs a Science-fiction background to even be feasible.

Science-fiction does not need to be set in space - there is plenty of SF that is set on Earth, just in a futuristic society. To be set in space, however, fiction pretty much has to be SF.

I have never heard of the term "space opera", but from the definition it appears to be a subset of science-fiction. Necessarily, since space travel at present is utterly unconventional and not available to the public, so-called "space opera" needs a Science-fiction background to even be feasible.

Science-fiction does not need to be set in space - there is plenty of SF that is set on Earth, just in a futuristic society. To be set in space, however, fiction pretty much has to be SF.

I disagree. First that wiki is at all justified in claiming space opera as a subgenre of science fiction. As you say, there are science fiction stories which occur not in space but on earth in a futuristic society. The main criteria I can identify for 'science fiction' (which like I've said is a broken word, without real academic meaning) are emphases on future scientific developments. In a space opera (Flash Gordon, Star Wars, et al) the emphasis is on the story, not the science behind it.

A clear contrast between science fiction and space opera are 2001: Space Odyssey and Star Wars: a New Hope (created within fair proximity to one another). In 2001: Space Odyssey the story is entirely driven and created and made from the scientific ramifications of "Hal" the supercomputer. In Star Wars: a New Hope the science of fighters, lightsabers, etc. is discarded entirely for emphasis on "the force" and the embarking of our hero on a journey.

Granted, to some space opera may seem to be an off-shoot of science fiction, since it does use space and science, sort of. The problem I have with that is that space opera is not 'created' by science fiction, or some of type of science fiction. No, it's a type of opera, or even a type of fantasy. Space opera is a re-invigoration (through the use of modern science/futuristic models) of long-time storytelling models. Flash Gordon doesn't come from Orson Wells, it comes from Il Domineo or Die Ring Des Nibelungen. Star Wars is a fantasy film, placed in space. It borrows from science fiction the premise of science or futurism, but it is not descended from science fiction, which its classification as "sub-genre" implies.

To say that space opera is a sub-genre of science fiction is inaccurate at best. It's like saying that humans who are good at swimming came from dolphins, since they both are mammals and in the sea.