NationStates Jolt Archive

Given that there will most likely be a global catastophe in our lifetimes because of human activity, it would seem there's quite a strong case for saying no.

I'd really like to know who is going to deny them that right.

The planet it lives on.

Retarded thread idea.

I'd really like to know who is going to deny them that right.I would.


But I won't. They're doing awful things, but they still have a right to exist. It's like killing bugs because they exist. I don't approve of genocide, and if my parents let me, I'll shoot and burn everyone who's causing this trouble at Darfur. Well not me, but I'd send an asteroid or something, you know how it works...

Damn it! I wish I had been born just three eons earlier...

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

The planet it lives on.
How so?

Fuck the planet!!!! The human race will use this world up and move on to another. We're working on the technology to do just that. Environmentalists should be herded into cages, fattened up on semi-synthetic feed, shot full of hormones and antibiotics, butchered and eaten.


Post a silly thread, get a silly response.

Rights are assigned by and between intelligent groups. Who can assign us rights? No one. Hence we have none. Intrinsic rights don't exist.

Fuck the planet!!!! The human race will use this world up and move on to another. We're working on the technology to do just that. Environmentalists should be herded into cages, fattened up on semi-synthetic feed, shot full of hormones and antibiotics, butchered and eaten.


Post a silly thread, get a silly response.Leave it to Drunk Commies......................... :rolleyes:

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Life is a privilege not a right. (wow that sounds like it should be on an abortion thread somehow)

The human race can not live as it is at the moment...

It must live undergorund, like burrowing mammels!

Join MOBRA! the only party that will make tihs a reality!

Well there's plausible scientific evidence that human rights derive from a giant squid that lives inside the earth, and that he's decided sorry, time's up. He's actually an amateur environmentalist himself.

Who are YOU to decide the fate of humanity?

Like Mr.Smith says in Matrix. We are more akin to Germs. Virus, disease. We'll destroy, mutate, grow, and move on. That is the order of things. Join the republicans! :)

sure it does... some more than others.

Why would it have more or less right to exist than the dodo?

Seriously, do ants have a right to exist? Do elephants have right to exist? Or seagulls?
It doesn't matter, there's no right or wrong in nature. Species that are to stupid to survive get extinct, as simple as that. Humans take some of the process in their own hands, but that won't really bother nature. It will adapt. cockroaches will adapt. Will humans? We'll have to wait and see, there's no telling.

Who are YOU to decide the fate of humanity? If you haven't heard of me my name is Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe! MWAHAHAHAHA! :sniper:

Oh, wait...you weren't talking to me.... :headbang:

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

anything has a right to exist even if it is terrible. after all Hitler had a right to exist, but look how he turned out.
it may not prferable for humans to exist, and frankly we are killing the planet and everything on it slowly but surely, but we do and what we have to do is understand what we're doing and find a way to stop it.

Species that are to stupid to survive get extinct, as simple as that.
Now, there's an interesting theory. "Too stupid to live."

Bah... Were no different from animals. We build our civilization the same way that ants do. We reproduce the same way animals do. Just the same way we kill animals to eat, were killed for other animals to eat. War? Bah, most animals are extremly terretoria and fight till the death. And about the end and destruction of our environments, im preety sure there are animals out there that destroy environments, although not in a large scale. So like it or not were no different from them, so yes we have a right to be here

No. A "right" is an artificial concept, a convention, agreed between parties. Since the human race has no one to agree with, we can't say there are any rights for the human race. It simply exists.

Perhaps some people are too intelligent to live.

Now, there's an interesting theory. "Too stupid to live."

Sorry, maybe that was over-simplyfied. Most of the time this will occur to over-specified species, species that can only survive if the environemt meets certain specific aspects. Pandas, for example. You take away bamboo forests, they die out. Cheetahs, for example. You add some slower hunters that are clever enough to wait until the cheetah has made a kill and is exhausted, then steal it, and the cheetah is in trouble.
Humans, for example. They turn vast landscapes into desserts by overusing them, and they invent national boundaries that they cannot cross when they are looking for fertile land, they starve.

No. A "right" is an artificial concept, a convention, agreed between parties. Since the human race has no one to agree with, we can't say there are any rights for the human race. It simply exists.
In other words, what I said. Just more better put than what I did, like.

Perhaps some people are too intelligent to live.

Hmm... possible. Humans are the only species I know of that actually comit suicide...
And no, Lemmings don't. Lemmings just happen across a sea which according to their migrating instinct isn't there...

In other words, what I said. Just more better put than what I did, like.
Oh, yeah. I hadn't read your post, but, yes. Same thing you said. I think you put it just fine.

Perhaps some people are too intelligent to live.Such people are indeed unfit to live and are referred to variously as "nerds", "smart alecks", "smarta**es", or "anti-Czardaians", and all are executed regularly. :D

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

We homo sapiens sapiens are more mediocre,souless,needy and disposable year in year out that existence doesn´t deserve our pathetic presence. Even "good" people like myself manage to pollute,stain,sabotage or destroy something that´s in ourselves or part of someone else´s ideals.
It´s a bigger issue and a bigger deal.
Human nature taints,perverts,steals and ruins even the biggest,or smallest natural beauties. :(

Sorry, maybe that was over-simplyfied. Most of the time this will occur to over-specified species, species that can only survive if the environemt meets certain specific aspects. Pandas, for example. You take away bamboo forests, they die out. Cheetahs, for example. You add some slower hunters that are clever enough to wait until the cheetah has made a kill and is exhausted, then steal it, and the cheetah is in trouble.
Humans, for example. They turn vast landscapes into desserts by overusing them, and they invent national boundaries that they cannot cross when they are looking for fertile land, they starve.
Not so over-simplified, come to think of it. Have you ever seen The Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin)?

Well, we evolved and survived, so yeah we have a right to exist.

Oh, yeah. I hadn't read your post, but, yes. Same thing you said. I think you put it just fine.
Aw, ta.

Not so over-simplified, come to think of it. Have you ever seen The Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin)?

Oh yes, completely forgot about them. You know even if humanity has the "right" to exist, with the people we have the right won't do us much good, we'll terminate ourselves before long anyway

We homo sapiens sapiens are more mediocre,souless,needy and disposable year in year out that existence doesn´t deserve our pathetic presence. Even "good" people like myself manage to pollute,stain,sabotage or destroy something that´s in ourselves or part of someone else´s ideals.
It´s a bigger issue and a bigger deal.
Human nature taints,perverts,steals and ruins even the biggest,or smallest natural beauties. :(So is that a "no"?

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

Oh yes, completely forgot about them. You know even if humanity has the "right" to exist, with the people we have the right won't do us much good, we'll terminate ourselves before long anyway
I've read the Darwin Awards series, all of them, and seen the website too. It's really funny seeing how one species can completely make fools of itself. :D

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

What evidence do you have that we will cause a global catastrophe in even your lifetime?
I have to say nutbar thread.
Right or not were here & here for a while still.
Besides even if we do screw it up. A natural disaster could be 1000 times More destructive then us measley humans could accomplish.
Get over your man is God complex.

I've read the Darwin Awards series, all of them, and seen the website too. It's really funny seeing how one species can completely make fools of itself. :D

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

I think it's rather polite of them to remove themselves so readily from the gene pool... :D

Given that there will most likely be a global catastophe in our lifetimes because of human activity, it would seem there's quite a strong case for saying no.

Shoot. I keep hearing that EVERY SINGLE LIFETIME. It was getting old back in 600 BC!!

I think it's rather polite of them to remove themselves so readily from the gene pool... :D"Nothing became him in his life/Like the leaving it." --Malcolm, Prince of Cumberland, in Shakespeare's Macbeth

I agree with some of the things said here, however I'm going to take on a more relativist point of view. Humans deserve to exist, as all creatures do, however, we do drastically need to find our spirituality, our former bond with the earth. We are not the earths masters, we are her protectors. I can understand remarks about genocide totally, as nothing would benefit the planet earth more than voluntary human genocide. We are leeches, and we will only realise what we have done when it is much too late, if it isn't already. We need to discard this humanitarian idealism and realise we are but a dot on the scope of existence and consciousness. We, as a species, will fall. Sooner or later. How and why, is of little importance.

I agree with some of the things said here, however I'm going to take on a more relativist point of view. Humans deserve to exist, as all creatures do, however, we do drastically need to find our spirituality, our former bond with the earth. We are not the earths masters, we are her protectors. I can understand remarks about genocide totally, as nothing would benefit the planet earth more than voluntary human genocide. We are leeches, and we will only realise what we have done when it is much too late, if it isn't already. We need to discard this humanitarian idealism and realise we are but a dot on the scope of existence and consciousness. We, as a species, will fall. Sooner or later. How and why, is of little importance.

Wow... whatever it was that you've been smoking... good stuff!
:D

Shoot. I keep hearing that EVERY SINGLE LIFETIME. It was getting old back in 600 BC!!
Although back then it was an issue over the exploitation of flint.

I agree with some of the things said here, however I'm going to take on a more relativist point of view. Humans deserve to exist, as all creatures do, however, we do drastically need to find our spirituality, our former bond with the earth. We are not the earths masters, we are her protectors. I can understand remarks about genocide totally, as nothing would benefit the planet earth more than voluntary human genocide. We are leeches, and we will only realise what we have done when it is much too late, if it isn't already. We need to discard this humanitarian idealism and realise we are but a dot on the scope of existence and consciousness. We, as a species, will fall. Sooner or later. How and why, is of little importance.

What are we supposed to protect the Earth from except ourselves?

What evidence do you have that we will cause a global catastrophe in even your lifetime?
I have to say nutbar thread.
Right or not were here & here for a while still.
Besides even if we do screw it up. A natural disaster could be 1000 times More destructive then us measley humans could accomplish.
Get over your man is God complex.

Actually, there is no "natural disaster' that could possibly be worse than hundreds of nukes.
And actually, I just realized that man is god to other life on the planet. We have the power to destroy all life, and we also have the power to improve all life. the future of this planet is up to us.

What are we supposed to protect the Earth from except ourselves?


You genralise humans as if we are all the same. Humans need to protect the planet from each other if need be, not through war, through govenment. We take from the earth and give nothing back, any mathematician, philosopher, theist or logical thinker will be able to do this sum. About 64 billion tonnes of waste poured onto the earth each year + a mere 300,000 enviromental cleanup operations throughout the entire world = .... Oh, Crap.

You genralise humans as if we are all the same. Humans need to protect the planet from each other if need be, not through war, through govenment. We take from the earth and give nothing back, any mathematician, philosopher, theist or logical thinker will be able to do this sum. About 64 billion tonnes of waste poured onto the earth each year + a mere 300,000 enviromental cleanup operations throughout the entire world = .... Oh, Crap.
You still didn't answer the question...

You genralise humans as if we are all the same. Humans need to protect the planet from each other if need be, not through war, through govenment. We take from the earth and give nothing back, any mathematician, philosopher, theist or logical thinker will be able to do this sum. About 64 billion tonnes of waste poured onto the earth each year + a mere 300,000 enviromental cleanup operation throughout the entire world = .... Oh, Crap.

I don't know about us having a "right" to exist but our existance sure is pretty ilogical.
If there is a god, he made a huge mistake.

Although back then it was an issue over the exploitation of flint.

Back in the early days, sure. Then came the Gotterdamerung when I was with the Vikings, the Black Death, those wacky Christians with Revelations/end of the world in 1666, the Aztecs seeing themselves be erased, and the flu of 1918. The Cuban Missile Crisis... now THAT was a BIG one.

I'm actually pretty happy about nukes getting hot again as a problem, I was missing that 1983 cold-war tension...

Actually, there is no "natural disaster' that could possibly be worse than hundreds of nukes.


I know of a few Catagory Five Hurricanes that'd like to have a word with you over that one. :D Not to mention the state of Florida from last year.

Given that there will most likely be a global catastophe in our lifetimes because of human activity, it would seem there's quite a strong case for saying no.


99% of all life ever to exist on planet Earth is extinct. And, as much as the more hardcore environmentalists would try and tell you otherwise, the vast majority of that 99% was dead long before we got here.

You know what will happen if humans get ourselves killed? Something else will take our place. Even if we take a bunch of species with us, that doesn't mean the planet itself gives a damn - consider that when the dinosaurs died, the largest life-form capable of survival was about the size of a squirrel, yet here we all are.

Much as other people suggested, there's no such thing as "natural right", unless you're religious enough to believe in God - in which case we have the right to do whatever we like, since God gave dominion over the Earth to mankind. Otherwise, the only right ANY species has to exist is the ability to do so - the sheer fact that humanity climbed to the top of the food chain justifies our existance, even if we use that power to turn the planet into a lifeless dustball.

This is why "Save the Earth" annoys me - the Earth doesn't NEED saving. About the only thing that will really happen is the planet will shrug us off like a dog scratching at fleas, and we'll be done.

Actually, there is no "natural disaster' that could possibly be worse than hundreds of nukes.
And actually, I just realized that man is god to other life on the planet. We have the power to destroy all life, and we also have the power to improve all life. the future of this planet is up to us.
A fair sized asteroid (about 600 feet across) hitting the earth is more powerful and destructive than the combined explosions of hundreds of our most powerful nuclear weapons.

the human race is here to stay (even though we will eventually be the super-human race) and if anyone or anything doesn’t like it well tough

I know of a few Catagory Five Hurricanes that'd like to have a word with you over that one. :D Not to mention the state of Florida from last year.

Show me a category five that can cause nuclear winter, and we'll talk...

Of course, a large enough asteroid can duplicate the effects of any number of bombs... but the hippies wouldn't be able to blame that one on Mother Earth rejecting humanity, so people don't like talking about those.

the human race is here to stay (even though we will eventually be the super-human race) and if anyone or anything doesn’t like it well tough

Oh yeah? I'm going to live forever or die trying!

(50 points to whomever can name THAT reference. Your only clue is that it's from British TV circa 1980.)

A fair sized asteroid (about 600 feet across) hitting the earth is more powerful and destructive than the combined explosions of hundreds of our most powerful nuclear weapons.

You're right.
But there are thousands of active nuclear weapons on this planet. I'd like you to tell my how many asteroids that size are waiting to crash into the earth.
Probably none.

Show me a category five that can cause nuclear winter, and we'll talk...
Or simply a category five that kills a hundred thousand civilians like a tiny 15-kiloton a-bomb over Hiroshima.

Perhaps it is nature itself which has dictated our right to survive, as we have ascended to the top of the food chain, have been able to harness the awesome power of the Earth and the Atom, have been able to create a civilization/ society greater than any seen on the face of the planet... As a species, I would have to say that the old saying is correct "might is right" look at all we have accomplished... though it might only be a footnote of history on our blue world right now, I know that human inginuity and human will power will find always find a way. Even if we nuke ourselves, some humans, somewhere, will survive... I feel as if humanity has a right to more than this planet though, i feel as if it is our destiny to spread thruought the stars and realize the full potential of our race.

Or simply a category five that kills a hundred thousand civilians like a tiny 15-kiloton a-bomb over Hiroshima.

You are correct. The bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima would be considered "tiny" compared to the hydrogen bombs of today.

You're right.
But there are thousands of active nuclear weapons on this planet. I'd like you to tell my how many asteroids that size are waiting to crash into the earth.
Probably none.
Plenty, though not any one that will crash into us any time soon. Earth has been bombarded by large asteroids hundreds of times over the few billion years this planet has been in existence, often destroying countless species. But active nuclear weapons are pretty harmless so far... we've already detonated hundreds of A-bombs, H-bombs, and other such devices in the last 60 years to negligible effect, and I have a hunch that the chance for our huge nuclear arsenals to be detonated in an all-out nuclear war is just as slim as life being wiped out by an asteroid.

Perhaps it is nature itself which has dictated our right to survive, as we have ascended to the top of the food chain, have been able to harness the awesome power of the Earth and the Atom, have been able to create a civilization/ society greater than any seen on the face of the planet... As a species, I would have to say that the old saying is correct "might is right" look at all we have accomplished... though it might only be a footnote of history on our blue world right now, I know that human inginuity and human will power will find always find a way. Even if we nuke ourselves, some humans, somewhere, will survive... I feel as if humanity has a right to more than this planet though, i feel as if it is our destiny to spread thruought the stars and realize the full potential of our race.

Actually, if we nuke ourselves, we're pretty much all dead. If any do survive, it'll be the ones living on remote islands without technology. Then who will carry on our mission to conquer the universe?

A couple of billion years ago, the atmosphere was toxic to all life that exists now. Then some bacteria overpopulated and started spewing out oxygen - a gas inimical to most other life forms at the time. Incidentally, this caused enormous climate change.

If that little bacteria had the right to exist and live as best it can, then so do we.

Humans crawled to the top of the damn pyramid because our primary doctrine is survive, adapt and conquer. We dream, we plan, we grow, we change the environment to fuel our expansion. When we hit adverse conditions, we simply evolve and keep on growing.

Humans thrive in the desert wastes of the Sahara and in the hellish cold of the arctic circle. Our tools and technology allows us to survive in space, or the bottom of the ocean. There is no boundary, no end, no threat that can defeat us. All evolution on this planet has been working towards our species, an organism with no limits that can carry the gift of life through any threat and to any world.

The only threat to our existence are traitors who undermine all the fundamental laws of nature by attempting to block natural change and sabotage their species own survival.

Actually, if we nuke ourselves, we're pretty much all dead. If any do survive, it'll be the ones living on remote islands without technology. Then who will carry on our mission to conquer the universe?
The survivors can try again. Just a temporary setback (of maybe 20,000 years or so for civilization to build up again, but that's nothing in terms of earth's long history!).

To quote someone, I am embarassed to say I can't remember who it was, "Fuck humanity."

The only threat to our existence are traitors who undermine all the fundamental laws of nature by attempting to block natural change and sabotage their species own survival.

The traitors have a right to exist, too.

A couple of billion years ago, the atmosphere was toxic to all life that exists now. Then some bacteria overpopulated and started spewing out oxygen - a gas inimical to most other life forms at the time. Incidentally, this caused enormous climate change.

If that little bacteria had the right to exist and live as best it can, then so do we.

Humans crawled to the top of the damn pyramid because our primary doctrine is survive, adapt and conquer. We dream, we plan, we grow, we change the environment to fuel our expansion. When we hit adverse conditions, we simply evolve and keep on growing.

Humans thrive in the desert wastes of the Sahara and in the hellish cold of the arctic circle. Our tools and technology allows us to survive in space, or the bottom of the ocean. There is no boundary, no end, no threat that can defeat us. All evolution on this planet has been working towards our species, an organism with no limits that can carry the gift of life through any threat and to any world.

The only threat to our existence are traitors who undermine all the fundamental laws of nature by attempting to block natural change and sabotage their species own survival.
I like your attitude, although there's probably going to be aliens out in space with the same will to conquer, and they might try to kill us.

Nothing has a right to exist. They just do, and everyone has to deal with it(There are many ways to do this including, but not limited to, throwing an asteroid at it, nuking it, ralying support against it, burning it, pushing it into a black hole, accepting it, embracing it).
What I'm saying is earth is pretty small compared to the rest of the universe and humans have been around for a short time compared to the rest of existance.

I like your attitude, although there's probably going to be aliens out in space with the same will to conquer, and they might try to kill us.

They'll probably succeed, too.

They'll probably succeed, too.
How do you know?

How do you know?

I don't. Its just a gues, seeing as we've only been around for a miniscule piece of existance. about 20.000 years out of five billion to be exact.

...I'll shoot and burn everyone who's causing this trouble at Darfur. Well not me, but I'd send an asteroid or something....
They did that with the dinosaurs.

To quote someone, I am embarassed to say I can't remember who it was, "Fuck humanity."

To quote someone else: "Nah, you might catch something."

:D

Top of the food chain has certain privileges, one of them being the transission from survival to comfort. There are no "rights" in nature, rights were developed by man for the progression of society by a motiviated and determined work force.

I don't. Its just a gues, seeing as we've only been around for a miniscule piece of existance. about 20.000 years out of four billion to be exact.
well existence since the big bang is estimated to be about 14 billion yrs. And our species has been around for about 500,000 years. But that doesn't matter, our time in the universe has been rather eventful, far more eventful than say the dolphin which has been aruond in its present form for millions of years but have been swimming around the same way over and over again. A confrontation between ourselves and some intelligent outer space aliens would be pure speculation since it has not happened yet, but just because we've only been in the universe for a tiny bit of time doesn't have much to do with anything. Maybe in the future we'll encounter a primitive intelligent species that is younger than Homo sapiens and not as technologically advanced so we can easily conquer them. Or we'll encounter some sort of highly inteligent advanced species that has been around for far more time than us humans and can destroy us. But guessing about how the outcome is going to be is a crapshoot... we'll never know about such a thing until it actually happens.

well existence since the big bang is estimated to be about 14 billion yrs. And our species has been around for about 500,000 years. But that doesn't matter, our time in the universe has been rather eventful, far more eventful than say the dolphin which has been aruond in its present form for millions of years but have been swimming around the same way over and over again. A confrontation between ourselves and some intelligent outer space aliens would be pure speculation since it has not happened yet, but just because we've only been in the universe for a tiny bit of time doesn't have much to do with anything. Maybe in the future we'll encounter a primitive intelligent species that is younger than Homo sapiens and not as technologically advanced so we can easily conquer them. Or we'll encounter some sort of highly inteligent advanced species that has been around for far more time than us humans and can destroy us. But guessing about how the outcome is going to be is a crapshoot... we'll never know about such a thing until it actually happens.
You're right about it being a crapshoot. thank you for correcting me. :headbang:

Humans can't survive a mass extinction.We have no natural survival instincts or weapons.Were not the best animal at anything.Were the absolute worst at alot of things.Only reason we existed this long is because we've cheated our way to survive.

Humans can't survive a mass extinction.We have no natural survival instincts or weapons.Were not the best animal at anything.Were the absolute worst at alot of things.Only reason we existed this long is because we've cheated our way to survive.
If most of humans are wiped out, civilization collapses, and we become hunter gatherers again we'll stay on top of the foodchain with our teamwork and crude tools. Our brainpower and ingenuity is by far the greatest of any animal. People today physically not much different from prehistoric cavemen, and modern humans will definitely find a way to survive and thrive just like our ancestors did.

The right that the human race has to exist is based solely on its ability to exist. We are the smartest and most capable species that have ever emerged from the primordial slime.
We didn't "cheat" we simply refused to play at the idiot level that the rest of this trash sticks to.
Finally, humanity is, at its core, superior to nature for two reasons:

Moral/Ethical development (Mother nature is a bitch, if you don't believe men watch a good nature documentary.)
Imagination (seeing all the solutions to a problem, as opposed to the obvious bite/claw/grab/hit it with a rock options that every other species has developed)

No other species in the world has ever formed ethical systems/religion. No other species could discover penicillin.

I would.


But I won't. They're doing awful things, but they still have a right to exist. It's like killing bugs because they exist. I don't approve of genocide, and if my parents let me, I'll shoot and burn everyone who's causing this trouble at Darfur. Well not me, but I'd send an asteroid or something, you know how it works...

Damn it! I wish I had been born just three eons earlier...

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

If you were the Sumpreme Ruler of the Universe, wouldn't you be free from your parents authority?

existance. about 20.000 years out of five billion to be exact.

that depends because magnamen (cant spell it) where animals and were cro-magnamen who though an ecological disaster managed to evolve an imagination thus creating all of this (and maybe killing all those other cavemen)

So were about 10,000 years old (around 6,000 of which was spent wondering about)

If you were the Sumpreme Ruler of the Universe, wouldn't you be free from your parents authority?No. The rule is, until I am 18 eons in age, my parents must help me govern the universe. It's rather a pity. :(

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe