NationStates Jolt Archive

A state math exam for North Carolina seventh-graders included a question on football that asked students "to calculate the average gain for a team on the game's first six plays." But there was a problem:

The team opened with a 6-yard loss, a 3-yard gain and a 2-yard loss, which would have made it fourth down with 15 yards to go for a first down. The team's fourth play was just a 7-yard gain, yet it maintained possession for a 12-yard gain and a 4-yard gain on two additional plays.

A state official defends the flawed question:

Mildred Bazemore, chief of the state Department of Public Instruction's test development section, said the question makes sense mathematically and was reviewed thoroughly.

"It has nothing to do with football," Bazemore said. "It has to do with the mathematical concepts that you're studying."


It seems mathematicians are out of touch with the real world--and even with the world of sports.

It seems mathematicians are out of touch with the real world--and even with the world of sports.
Maybe there was a flag on the fourth down. Still, it begs the question, why didn't they just punt?

A friend of mine has the lucky ability to understand Maths so much so, that he spent most of his GCSE year messing around, didn't revise, yet still got an A.

He doesn't play football.

He plays Rugby.

A friend of mine has the lucky ability to understand Maths so much so, that he spent most of his GCSE year messing around, didn't revise, yet still got an A.

He doesn't play football.

He plays Rugby.

An A at GCSE. Like that's hard :rolleyes:

An A at GCSE. Like that's hard :rolleyes:

Point, but he did the same at first A level exams too. Although he didn't mess around so much this time methinx... He didn't revise though.

An A at GCSE. Like that's hard :rolleyes:

Hey! I got a B thank you very bloody much and i worked my fing socks off to try and get better. :mad: If you would kindly keep your looking down on others to yourself thanks, much appreciated.

Hey! I got a B thank you very bloody much and i worked my fing socks off to try and get better. :mad: If you would kindly keep your looking down on others to yourself thanks, much appreciated.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, just that an A at GCSE Maths is hardly proof of God-like mathematical powers.

Sorry.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, just that an A at GCSE Maths is hardly proof of God-like mathematical powers.

Sorry.

Nah mate, its my apology, i kinda jumped in the deep end. Never mind eh?

I know what you mean.

But my bro is like the guy Khwarezmia is talking about, does f all work and gets an A*. I could so throttle the git :D

Eh, even if it was a purely maths question *without all the American Football fluff, I'd still get it wrong... I have been known to use a calculator for the question what is 7 / 35? before. I don't believe I've passed a maths test since... I was 13, I think.

Nah mate, its my apology, i kinda jumped in the deep end. Never mind eh?

I know what you mean.

But my bro is like the guy Khwarezmia is talking about, does f all work and gets an A*. I could so throttle the git :D

It also sounds like me. Still pissing around doing bugger all at A2, and I'm on an A.

I rule.

It also sounds like me. Still pissing around doing bugger all at A2, and I'm on an A.

I rule.

It's okay for some... :rolleyes:

Just out of interest, what are you like at English?

The team opened with a 6-yard loss, a 3-yard gain and a 2-yard loss, which would have made it fourth down with 15 yards to go for a first down. The team's fourth play was just a 7-yard gain, yet it maintained possession for a 12-yard gain and a 4-yard gain on two additional plays.
i would be so ridiculously screwed in that. i have no idea what any of that is

A state math exam for North Carolina seventh-graders included a question on football that asked students "to calculate the average gain for a team on the game's first six plays." But there was a problem:

A state official defends the flawed question:


It seems mathematicians are out of touch with the real world--and even with the world of sports.
FOOTBALL IS STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!
AS ARE MOST OF THE REST OF SPORTS11

Americans don't play football either. They pick up the ball and run into each other. At least rugby has rules about where you can pass to stop it becoming a punch-up.

Sorry, I just find american 'football' to be the most tedious yet violent sport ever.

How in the world is anyone supposed to understand the question?

Mathematicians Don't Play Football

That's right ... we ran track.

American Football uses four downs. Even if there was a flag on one of the plays, it wouldn't go over four downs, you'd just replay the flagged down after taking the penalty.

The team opened with a 6-yard loss: first down, -6 yards, 16 yards to the next first down.

a 3-yard gain: second down, 13 yards to the next first down

and a 2-yard loss: Man this team sucks. Third down, 15 yards to go

The team's fourth play was just a 7-yard gain, yet it maintained possession: wtf? No it didn't. They still have 8 yards to go. They lose the ball.

for a 12-yard gain and a 4-yard gain on two additional plays: which they pulled out of their ass

Apparently the state's mathematician can't tell the difference between "four" and "six"

Maybe they passed for an interception, forced a fumble, and fell on the ball 7 yards ahead of the line of scrimmage. First and ten.

Maybe they passed for an interception, forced a fumble, and fell on the ball 7 yards ahead of the line of scrimmage. First and ten.

Probably so, but it's still a very fucked up math problem.

It seems mathematicians are out of touch with the real world--and even with the world of sports.

It's what mathematics does to you.

I didn't understand a single word of that question, but then again I absolutely hate American Football. It's completely pointless. You grab the ball, run and get smashed to the ground. I don't think anything gets dumber than that.

I didn't understand a single word of that question, but then again I absolutely hate American Football. It's completely pointless. You grab the ball, run and get smashed to the ground. I don't think anything gets dumber than that.

Ah, the irony.

Probably so, but it's still a very fucked up math problem.
The key to solving it is that you must abstract it from football, not the metric variety, but _real_ football, and just do the sum. Metric football -- soccer -- is abstract enough. Or is that binary football because its score is usually all 1s and 0s?

It's like solving a quadratic with +/- roots. In most cases, the engineer can throw away the negative root because it doesn't exist. The mathematician must report that as an answer, anyway. Sometimes complex number describe a solution, but usually engineers are smart enough to realize when that's true.

The key to solving it is that you must abstract it from football, not the metric variety, but _real_ football, and just do the sum. Metric football -- soccer -- is abstract enough. Or is that binary football because its score is usually all 1s and 0s?

It's like solving a quadratic with +/- roots. In most cases, the engineer can throw away the negative root because it doesn't exist. The mathematician must report that as an answer, anyway. Sometimes complex number describe a solution, but usually engineers are smart enough to realize when that's true.

Qwah? I never said I had any issues with the problem itself. I just stated that it was very fucked up, because in Football, you get four downs and four downs only. You cannot "maintain possession" if you get a 12-yard gain on 4th and 15.

Qwah? I never said I had any issues with the problem itself. I just stated that it was very fucked up, because in Football, you get four downs and four downs only. You cannot "maintain possession" if you get a 12-yard gain on 4th and 15.
I just quoted you because the quote button and the reply button were dancing around. And I missed. I need to find my glasses. They need to make those buttons more friendly to the optically challenged.

see I have no idea why the questions wrong.


Can't wait for the lions tour.

Qwah? I never said I had any issues with the problem itself. I just stated that it was very fucked up, because in Football, you get four downs and four downs only. You cannot "maintain possession" if you get a 12-yard gain on 4th and 15.
If there's a penalty that resets the down counter without moving the football, you could. But I can't think of any except pass interference. That must be it -- threw on fourth down, pass interference was called and the team on offense got a first down at the spot were interference occurred, twelve yards from the line of scrimmage.

If there's a penalty that resets the down counter without moving the football, you could. But I can't think of any except pass interference. That must be it -- threw on fourth down, pass interference was called and the team on offense got a first down at the spot were interference occurred, twelve yards from the line of scrimmage.

That would work. However, that's not the case. The fact is that these guys didn't know what the hell they were talking about.

A state math exam for North Carolina seventh-graders included a question on football that asked students "to calculate the average gain for a team on the game's first six plays." But there was a problem:

A state official defends the flawed question:


It seems mathematicians are out of touch with the real world--and even with the world of sports.
Proves everything ive always said Maths is Crap!
Go back into your holes freaks!

MAybe Tom Brady Double Pumped and Fumbled.............Instead of an incomplete pass

What's a 'down'? Is it like a phase of play? Because then I can sort of understand the question. I think.

you get four chances to "win" your yardage...

if you get past the 10-yard mark, you go back to first down, and can carry on...

I THINK...

Basically, get a playstation 2, rent/borrow John Madden Football, despair at how shockingly easy, but bloody long it is... and win every game about 72-20

yep...that's american sports for you... :p

What really disturbs me is that seven-graders are being taught additions and substractions. Shouldn't they be into something a little more... advanced? Fractions? Or maybe powers and roots?

What really disturbs me is that seven-graders are being taught additions and substractions. Shouldn't they be into something a little more... advanced? Fractions? Or maybe powers and roots?
That's where government schools are at these days. We are dumbing down just about everything. Pretty soon the teachers won't understand any more than the what they teach the students.

In a season very dear to my heart, as a Georgia Tech Alum, a game was played with five downs. That would make the math problem easily possible. Maybe the math teacher in question was a Colorado alum reliving the glory, or possibly a disgruntled Missouri alum.

Colorado 33 Missouri 31 October 6, 1990
A good Colorado team, ranked No. 12 in the country, was going into Missouri for just another Big 8 conference game against a relatively bad Missouri team. Little did everyone know that the controversy that would ensue would only grow as the season went on. Down 31-27 with 31 seconds to play, the Buffaloes had the ball first and goal on the Missouri three. Quarterback Charles Johnson spiked the ball to stop the clock. Second down: Running back Eric Bieniemy, who ran for 217 yards on the day, barreled down to the one. Colorado called time out with 18 seconds to go. On third down, Bieniemy was stuffed. The officials stopped the clock with eight seconds to go saying Missouri wasnt unpiling fast enough. Fourth down: Johnson spiked the ball again to stop the clock. Why? The down marker said third down as they failed to flip it after second down. Soooooo.Fifth down: With two seconds to play Johnson forced it in from the one, getting in by just the nose of the ball, if at all, for the winning touchdown. The officials didnt signal for a touchdown and the fans rushed the field even tearing down one of the goalposts. When an official signaled touchdown, a riot erupted on the field. After Missouri tried to change the outcome, they were informed that, under NCAA rules, it couldnt.
Historical Significance: Colorado went on to beat Notre Dame in the Orange Bowl and won a share of the national title along with Georgia Tech finishing the season, officially 11-1-1. In many people's eyes, Colorado was really 10-2-1 and shouldnt have been given any piece of the national title.

that had got to be the worst test question i've ever seen.

if you're going to ask a question which uses a sport, make sure you don't murder the rules of the sport just to fit your scenario. lmao

the lady's reply was hilarious.

If you think that's funny, you should see how the Democrats keep trying to define "assault" weapons.

It's hard to define a weapon class that doesn't exist - the original term defines a military rifle that has features that already make it illegal - it's fully automatic for starters.

But they keep trying. The last piece of legislation that they passed (and let expire) didn't ban anything at all - it just allowed manufacturers to panic thousands of people who would normally not purchase a semiautomatic rifle into buying them - created a multi-billion dollar business overnight - created several manufacturers overnight.

Nice to know that no one on any Democratic Senator's staff knows the slightest factual thing about any firearms.

If you think that's funny, you should see how the Democrats keep trying to define "assault" weapons.

From math and football to gun control in one single sentence. That's got to be some kind of record :D

From math and football to gun control in one single sentence. That's got to be some kind of record :D

If it wasn't WL, then it would be.