NationStates Jolt Archive


Who Flushed First?

Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 18:33
Newsweek, as reported by MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7937016/site/newsweek/) has followed up its retracted story alleging that U.S. servicemen had flushed a Koran down the toilet at Guantanamo Bay. It turns out that there is a record of Koran-flushing, but it wasn't Americans who did it:

In three cases, detainees tried to stuff pages from their Qur'ans down their toilets, according to the Defense Department's account of what is in the guards' reports. . . . Prison commanders concluded that certain hard-core prisoners would try to agitate the other detainees by alleging disrespect for Muslim articles of faith.

And what about "abuse" of the Koran by soldiers? Well, here's what Newsweek was able to document:

In fewer than a dozen log entries from the 31,000 documents reviewed so far, said [Pentagon spokesman Lawrence] Di Rita, there is a mention of detainees' complaining that guards or interrogators mishandled their Qur'ans. In one case, a female guard allegedly knocked a Qur'an from its pouch onto the detainee's bed. In another alleged case, said Di Rita, detainees became upset after two MPs [military policemen], looking for contraband, felt the pouch containing a prisoner's Qur'an. While questioning a detainee, an interrogator allegedly put a Qur'an on top of a TV set, took it off when the detainee complained, then put it back on. In another alleged instance, guards somehow sprayed water on a detainee's Qur'an.


That's it. What's more, after a December 2002 incident in which "a guard inadvertently knocked a Qur'an from its pouch onto the floor," the Guantanamo commanders "issued precise rules to respect the 'cultural dignity of the Koran thereby reducing the friction over the searching of the Korans.' "

So assuming Newsweek has the story right this time--and you can bet they were extra careful--it's clear that those journalists who defended the original report as "fake but accurate" were only showing their own deep prejudice against the U.S. military.
Marrakech II
24-05-2005, 18:38
havent read that report yet. If true then nice job on the summary.
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 21:06
Funny isn't it. A little bad news and people are killing each other. A little good news and no one cares.
Yaga-Shura-Field
24-05-2005, 21:09
Funny isn't it. A little bad news and people are killing each other. A little good news and no one cares.

But how far can this source be trusted? There is no evidence for this, only the vague say-so of the Defence Department.
Tamilion
24-05-2005, 21:15
Sounds to me like another cover story like the Gulf War Syndrome, the Cuba Missile Crisis, or the assassination of Kennedy.
I guess the truth doesn't really matter.
Carnivorous Lickers
24-05-2005, 21:17
But how far can this source be trusted? There is no evidence for this, only the vague say-so of the Defence Department.


It only needs to be as trusted as the original bogus story.
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 21:19
But how far can this source be trusted? There is no evidence for this, only the vague say-so of the Defence Department.
Wasn't it the vague say-so of the DoD that started this whole mess? Like I said, the media has an incredible anti-military bias. Completely unjustified, but there, all the same.
Yaga-Shura-Field
24-05-2005, 21:20
Wasn't it the vague say-so of the DoD that started this whole mess? Like I said, the media has an incredible anti-military bias. Completely unjustified, but there, all the same.

I thought it was the international red cross?
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 21:26
I thought it was the international red cross?
The Koran flushing that was originally reported by Newsweek, and later retracted, was based on the lack of denial from the DoD when the story was submitted for their comments. I'm not sure where the IRC ever got into that issue.
Yaga-Shura-Field
24-05-2005, 21:27
The Koran flushing that was originally reported by Newsweek, and later retracted, was based on the lack of denial from the DoD when the story was submitted for their comments. I'm not sure where the IRC ever got into that issue.

Submitted by whom?
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 21:33
Submitted by whom?
I think y'all need to google this. Or look at some archives in newsweek/msnbc. A lot seems to have gone on without your knowledge.
Yaga-Shura-Field
24-05-2005, 21:37
I think y'all need to google this. Or look at some archives in newsweek/msnbc. A lot seems to have gone on without your knowledge.

Why do that when you could do it for me?

Most of this doesn't make it over the pond, anyway
Mirchaz
24-05-2005, 21:44
i would just like to point out this thread to the ppl in the Prisoner Abuse thread that Fass started.
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 22:12
Why do that when you could do it for me?

Most of this doesn't make it over the pond, anyway
Doesn't make sense on this side either.
German Nightmare
24-05-2005, 22:17
Funny isn't it. A little bad news and people are killing each other. A little good news and no one cares.
Sad, that's what it is. Blood sells... What a wrong point of view the media has adopted there!
Karas
24-05-2005, 22:18
Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

MSNBC offers no proof of its assertions. Neither did Newsweek.
Both accounts are equally suspect.
Yaga-Shura-Field
24-05-2005, 22:32
Do you believe everything you read on the internet?


Yes I do.

Why would the internet lie to me?
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 22:42
Do you believe everything you read on the internet?

MSNBC offers no proof of its assertions. Neither did Newsweek.
Both accounts are equally suspect.
The premise of the follow-up is more believable.

How do you validate a claim by a media organization? We can't trust them to report accurately. We can't even trust them not to make up stories. Do we just rely on what we think the facts should be and buy the story that supports that?