NationStates Jolt Archive


Victims are the new Criminals

New British Glory
24-05-2005, 01:18
BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4389945.stm)

Pellet gun teacher sent to prison

A special needs teacher who fired a pellet gun at youths she claimed had vandalised her house has been jailed for six months.

Linda Walker, 48, was "ranting and raving like a lunatic" when she fired the gun, a court had heard.

Walker, of Hollyhouse Drive, Urmston, Gtr Manchester, was convicted of affray and possessing a firearm with intent to cause fear or violence.

She said she was under stress at the time of the incident on 14 August 2004.

Walker claimed a campaign of vandalism by "yobbos" had driven her to fire the gun at the feet of a gang of teenagers she confronted near her home.

The teacher of children with behavioural difficulties at New Park School, Salford, had kept the gun in her underwear drawer for four months since her she was burgled.

She had also received nuisance phone calls abusing her 17-year-old son James while her other son Craig's car had been vandalised.

Fish had been stolen from her pond and her garden ornaments were thrown over a wall, her trial heard.

The final straw came when a washing-up liquid bottle full of water was emptied over her son's car, she said.

She went outside to confront the youths and, in a phone call to police, said: "I'm going over to that field over the road, I've got an air rifle and a pistol and I'm going to shoot the vandals that come around here."

Walker fired the pistol at the road near the feet of Robert McKiernan, 18.

Walker was sentenced at Manchester's Minshull St Crown Court on Tuesday to six months for possessing the firearm and one month for affray. The sentences will run concurrently.

Her 56-year-old partner, John Cavanagh, was cleared of affray last month.

Walker's defence barrister, Farrhat Ashad, said she admitted she had acted in a "very unfortunate" manner but had been under stress through work at the time.

"She thought her family, which was supposed to be safe, was being attacked," she added.

Her employer, Salford City Council, said she was suspended from her teaching job and would now face disciplinary action.

Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said there was no "particular problem" with anti-social behaviour in the Urmston area and insisted there was "no evidence" to suggest the Walkers had been targeted for abuse by youths.

"While we support homeowners protecting themselves in line with the recent ACPO and CPS guidelines, Mrs Walker overstepped the line and attacked a group in an unprovoked, disproportionate manner," said Det Sgt Frank Hayley, of Trafford CID.

"The use of a firearm was an extreme reaction and Greater Manchester Police will not tolerate the use of such a weapon on the street, irrespective of the offender's justification

Now this is an old case in Britain now but I feel it is necessary to look at it for the benefit of those ouside of Britain. She has been released from prison now (the judge reduced her sentence) but only have a hunger strike and huge press campaigns for her release. However Mrs. Walker has lost her job as a special needs teacher.

It is a sad day for justice when a woman such as Mrs. Walker is the one sent to prison while the yobs who terrorised her and her family walk free. Free so that when she goes back to her home, they know that they can terrorise her with the full support of the law behind them, knowing that the family whom they persecute cannot raise a finger against them.

It is a sad day for the police force when they cannot go out to relieve a law abiding family from the siege of yobbery but can dispatch a full team when a citizen finally breaks down. The fact that the citizen broke down is partly because of the police's ineffective, incompetenent and inactive handling of the situation.

It is a sad day for the country when the politically correct brigade hold so much sway that they can dismiss a special needs teacher (of whom there is a dire shortage) because they refuse to take a campaign of terrorism lying down. A teacher whose career has been ruined (along the lives of the children who need her help) because she fired an air pellet into the air to scare off the delinquents against whom the police would raise not one finger.

So watch out law abiding people of Britain. The law now fights for the muggers, the theives and the chavs. After all the human rights of the criminal matter far more than the human rights of victims, who are denied the right even to defend themselves from the abuse that is hurled at them by Britain's out of control yob culture.
Shadowstorm Imperium
24-05-2005, 01:20
British law with respect to self-defense does seem to suck quite considerably. I just hope I never need to defend myself.
Nimzonia
24-05-2005, 01:22
I think it must vary considerably from area to area. Some places they get away with it, other places, the police go round slapping ASBOs and stuff on everyone who even looks suspicious.

Fortunately, there aren't any of the maladjusted chimps where I live, so I don't really care.
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 01:25
I think it must vary considerably from area to area. Some places they get away with it, other places, the police go round slapping ASBOs and stuff on everyone who even looks suspicious.

Fortunately, there aren't any of the maladjusted chimps where I live, so I don't really care.
Are British prosecutors generally on their way to higher office? I'm sure the ones who are ambitious will see things differently that those that are content to enforce the law.
Wegason
24-05-2005, 01:30
Are British prosecutors generally on their way to higher office? I'm sure the ones who are ambitious will see things differently that those that are content to enforce the law.

Prosecutors on way to higher office? It does not happen like that in this country.
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 01:36
Prosecutors on way to higher office? It does not happen like that in this country.
In the U.S. a prosecutor is an elected official. When one makes a federal case out of nothing, you can be sure to see his name on the ballot for a higher profile office pretty soon. Maybe a judge, maybe a US Rep ... hard to tell.
CSW
24-05-2005, 01:37
In the U.S. a prosecutor is an elected official. When one makes a federal case out of nothing, you can be sure to see his name on the ballot for a higher profile office pretty soon. Maybe a judge, maybe a US Rep ... hard to tell.
No they aren't.
New British Glory
24-05-2005, 01:38
The Prosecution are lawyers who form a service called the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS). They decide whether to prosecute or not and the case to present in court to the judge. In criminal cases, the CPS usually represents the state.
CSW
24-05-2005, 01:40
BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4389945.stm)



Now this is an old case in Britain now but I feel it is necessary to look at it for the benefit of those ouside of Britain. She has been released from prison now (the judge reduced her sentence) but only have a hunger strike and huge press campaigns for her release. However Mrs. Walker has lost her job as a special needs teacher.

It is a sad day for justice when a woman such as Mrs. Walker is the one sent to prison while the yobs who terrorised her and her family walk free. Free so that when she goes back to her home, they know that they can terrorise her with the full support of the law behind them, knowing that the family whom they persecute cannot raise a finger against them.

It is a sad day for the police force when they cannot go out to relieve a law abiding family from the siege of yobbery but can dispatch a full team when a citizen finally breaks down. The fact that the citizen broke down is partly because of the police's ineffective, incompetenent and inactive handling of the situation.

It is a sad day for the country when the politically correct brigade hold so much sway that they can dismiss a special needs teacher (of whom there is a dire shortage) because they refuse to take a campaign of terrorism lying down. A teacher whose career has been ruined (along the lives of the children who need her help) because she fired an air pellet into the air to scare off the delinquents against whom the police would raise not one finger.

So watch out law abiding people of Britain. The law now fights for the muggers, the theives and the chavs. After all the human rights of the criminal matter far more than the human rights of victims, who are denied the right even to defend themselves from the abuse that is hurled at them by Britain's out of control yob culture.
Read the article.

Greater Manchester Police (GMP) said there was no "particular problem" with anti-social behaviour in the Urmston area and insisted there was "no evidence" to suggest the Walkers had been targeted for abuse by youths.

"While we support homeowners protecting themselves in line with the recent ACPO and CPS guidelines, Mrs Walker overstepped the line and attacked a group in an unprovoked, disproportionate manner," said Det Sgt Frank Hayley, of Trafford CID.

"The use of a firearm was an extreme reaction and Greater Manchester Police will not tolerate the use of such a weapon on the street, irrespective of the offender's justification


No proof of harm, no proof of 'terrorization', no self defense defense.
Cathenia
24-05-2005, 01:47
BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/4389945.stm)
It is a sad day for justice when a woman such as Mrs. Walker is the one sent to prison while the yobs who terrorised her and her family walk free. Free so that when she goes back to her home, they know that they can terrorise her with the full support of the law behind them, knowing that the family whom they persecute cannot raise a finger against them... etc...

There's a law I believe in the United Nations NS w/c I think should be adapted - the one about common sense - like a criminal can't sue the owner of the house he's robbing if he gets hurt while committing the crime. While of course the argument is that 'she should have gone to the proper authorities' and let them handle it, how many times have 'the proper authorities' actually gone and done something that WORKS.

Justice may be blind by avocation but sometimes it needs to OPEN ITS EYES
Cathenia
CSW
24-05-2005, 01:52
There's a law I believe in the United Nations NS w/c I think should be adapted - the one about common sense - like a criminal can't sue the owner of the house he's robbing if he gets hurt while committing the crime. While of course the argument is that 'she should have gone to the proper authorities' and let them handle it, how many times have 'the proper authorities' actually gone and done something that WORKS.

Justice may be blind by avocation but sometimes it needs to OPEN ITS EYES
Cathenia
Cite the case please were someone sued and won a case in which they were committing a criminal act on another's property.
Cathenia
24-05-2005, 01:56
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/2987642.stm

Oh and this is my favorite quote:

"District Judge Oliver said that the full hearing must consider what rights a householder has to protect his property and also whether a burglar can be deemed to be outside of the law. " WTFngF!!!

enjoy,
Cathenia
Utracia
24-05-2005, 01:58
This is a new age where criminals have all the rights and potential victims just have to suffer. I'm glad some rights of the accused have been put in but things have gotten out of hand to the point where you can't defend yourself without worry of being sued or prosecuted.
CSW
24-05-2005, 01:59
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/2987642.stm

Oh and this is my favorite quote:

"District Judge Oliver said that the full hearing must consider what rights a householder has to protect his property and also whether a burglar can be deemed to be outside of the law. " WTFngF!!!

enjoy,
Cathenia
Won a case. I can sue you for libel right now, but that doesn't mean that I have a valid case. Most get thrown out. This one is being taken to a full jury trial.


A real court case please. As in the court documents.
Cathenia
24-05-2005, 02:01
KILL ALL THE F**KING LAWYERS!! (and this from a Bar Top Notcher's grandson)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/norfolk/2939490.stm

I hope all such legal scum have their houses broken into, their wives raped, their daughters raped then murdered, their sons castrated and their eyes put out by the smarmy scum they're 'defending' (with millions in court fees to win of course!)

Cathenia
Dragons Bay
24-05-2005, 02:01
She is an ADULT! She should know better than shoot pellet guns at children, ranting and raving like an idiot. *rolls eyes* I say she deserved the sentence.

Of course the teens were also in the wrong, and they should have been tried and punished as well, but firing the pellet gun was just wrong.
Myrmidonisia
24-05-2005, 02:11
No they aren't.
Are you just being contrary, or are you really ignorant? I've voted for prosecutors in every county I've lived in, from Ohio to Florida, to North Carolina, to Washington State, to California. If they aren't elected, where do they come from?
CSW
24-05-2005, 02:29
Are you just being contrary, or are you really ignorant? I've voted for prosecutors in every county I've lived in, from Ohio to Florida, to North Carolina, to Washington State, to California. If they aren't elected, where do they come from?
We don't have them in PA and DE (not elected, anyway). Are you thinking of the AG?
Australus
24-05-2005, 02:41
We don't have them in PA and DE (not elected, anyway). Are you thinking of the AG?
Prosecutors aren't chosen by the same means in every state, or every area. I've lived in counties in California where the prosecutor is elected.