NationStates Jolt Archive

Can someone explain this to me? Obi wan and anaiken have been fighting, but all of a sudden obi wan is standing a couple of feet higher up than aniken and he says"give it up, I have the higher ground"

Can someone make sense of this to me. Jedi fight all over the place. Aniken and Oi wan were just fighting over burning rivers of lava. Am I expected to believe that 3 feet of height all of a sudden makes a differance? Werent they just fighting on pieces of metal that bounced up and down? So, its okay to basically fight on a tightrope, but if one party is 2-3 feet higher up then the battle is basically settled? Is that what I am to undersand from the final fight scene? Obi wan ad the "higher ground" so it it makes sense that he was able to cut off anikens hand and 2 feet.... yeah right. didnt realize that being 2 feet higher on lava gravel was so important.

i would give a bit of an advantage.... assuming you both werent jedi and able to bounce around wontonly as they do...

it does kinda make sense, but is slightly unrealistic given what jedi are able to do, although there is the possiblity that there is an easy counter move that always works in that situation. althgough really i dont see why Ani couldnt have just casually stepped of the platform, gotten slightly hot feet being that close to teh lava and then started to fight obi again. but hey, im not completely insane with the powers of teh dark side and paranoid about everyone around me, cept for the one person i should truely be fighting.

In any type of fight, having the higher ground is always the better position to launch/defend attacks. Since your opponent would have to come to you as opposed to you going down to it, well, it gives you a better chance to counter. In this case, Obi-Wan was able to slice through Anakin at the knees, because the latter was more focused on trying to attack rather than defend as he overtook the higher ground.

There is also an allusion to pride in this scene...Obi Wan says he has the higher ground to mean literally he is higher up than Aniken at the time, but also to say that he is on the higher path...the light side of the force....Aniken, in an act of defiance and arrogance that he had always presented, but never to the point of absolute recklessness that he has embodied by crossing over to the dark side, jumps over Obi Wan to try to gain higher ground both literally and representatively in that, if he had succeeded, Aniken would have proven the dark side and the path he was walking to be more powerful...and right

The fire level was rising. If they stayed where they were, Anakin would be burned to death first.

His only chance was to jump towards Obi-Wan. The problem was that the only way he could launch himself far enough would involve lowering his guard, which would allow Obi-Wan to slice of his legs and end the fight. Anakin thought his force powers were more powerful than they were, allowing him to jump further over Obi-Wan to avoid the inevitable lightsaber to the knees. They weren't, though.

In any type of fight, having the higher ground is always the better position to launch/defend attacks. Since your opponent would have to come to you as opposed to you going down to it, well, it gives you a better chance to counter. In this case, Obi-Wan was able to slice through Anakin at the knees, because the latter was more focused on trying to attack rather than defend as he overtook the higher ground.


So, regardless of all the fighting obi wan and aniken did previously(jumping through burning lava, maintaing balance on metal titeropes, balancing force powers against each other,) it all comes down to who was able to be a couple of feet higher up. Why didnt aniken have the platform he was standing on rise a couple of feet then
(it was already defying gravity)? Is someone's force ability judged by how high they can jump? Aniken didnt have this height issue fetish when he and Obi Wan were climing up the tower.

The fire level was rising. If they stayed where they were, Anakin would be burned to death first.

His only chance was to jump towards Obi-Wan. The problem was that the only way he could launch himself far enough would involve lowering his guard, which would allow Obi-Wan to slice of his legs and end the fight. Anakin thought his force powers were more powerful than they were, allowing him to jump further over Obi-Wan to avoid the inevitable lightsaber to the knees. They weren't, though.

Okay, lets talk about force powers, especially with regard to jumping.


It is my understanding that a barely trained luke skywalker could jump meters upon meters in Empire strikes back. Am I to understand that a fully trained Aniken cant jump a few feet?

Okay, lets talk about force powers, especially with regard to jumping.


It is my understanding that a barely trained luke skywalker could jump meters upon meters in Empire strikes back. Am I to understand that a fully trained Aniken cant jump a few feet?
I mean, there are plenty of continuity errors in Episode III. This could be one of them.

It was likely a lot longer and higher than it looked to us on the screen.

And why in the name of the Force did Obi-wan just leave Anakin for dead? Surely Obi-wan could have sensed that he was alive enough to survive.

One more reason Bond movies should be required viewing at the Jedi Academy.

And why in the name of the Force did Obi-wan just leave Anakin for dead? Surely Obi-wan could have sensed that he was alive enough to survive.

One more reason Bond movies should be required viewing at the Jedi Academy.
Yeah, I had the same reaction.

Perhaps he couldn't bring himself to stick a lightsaber in the helpless body of what was once his closest friend.

By the way, the whole no-sex Jedi thing is really unhealthy.

I mean, there are plenty of continuity errors in Episode III. This could be one of them.

It was likely a lot longer and higher than it looked to us on the screen.


Look, I really liked the movie. I probably place it as no 2 or no 3 as far as favorite star wars movies goes.

I just dont get the last bits of the Aniken/obi wan fight scene.

Everything was fine up until Obi wan goes "give it up, I have the higher ground"

I keep thinking WTF

werent these people just fighting on a metal tower in the middle of a burning river of lava?

Didnt these people just jump off of that tower onto smaller platforms on a burning river of lava.

And all of a sudden 1 guy is saying "Its over, I have the higher ground"?

I want to say HELLO, you guys are jumping up and down on small moving platforms in the middle of a burning river of lava, I doubt that someone being a few feet higher up or lower down is your biggest issue.

So, regardless of all the fighting obi wan and aniken did previously(jumping through burning lava, maintaing balance on metal titeropes, balancing force powers against each other,) it all comes down to who was able to be a couple of feet higher up.

It has nothing to do with Star Wars or the Force. It has to do that historically, the high ground is always the ground you strive for in battle. What if scenarios are irrelevant, because any number of situations could've occured to change the outcome of the battle, it was a mixture of luck and a mixture of the high ground that gave Obi-Wan the ability to win the fight (if you can even look at it that way, since it is a movie). He wasn't as skilled as Anakin. Period. He was weaker and admitted it throughout Episodes II and III. Anakin's arrogance that he could overtake the higher ground from Obi-Wan was his downfall.

Look, I really liked the movie. I probably place it as no 2 or no 3 as far as favorite star wars movies goes.

I just dont get the last bits of the Aniken/obi wan fight scene.

Everything was fine up until Obi wan goes "give it up, I have the higher ground"

I keep thinking WTF

werent these people just fighting on a metal tower in the middle of a burning river of lava?

Didnt these people just jump off of that tower onto smaller platforms on a burning river of lava.

And all of a sudden 1 guy is saying "Its over, I have the higher ground"?

I want to say HELLO, you guys are jumping up and down on small moving platforms in the middle of a burning river of lava, I doubt that someone being a few feet higher up or lower down is your biggest issue.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I liked it a lot (much better than the two before it) as well. Having read some of the books and seen the other movies multiple times, I didn't like some aspects of this one.

There was probably more going on than we saw or could tell from the picture.

Maybe it's a Jedi rule.

It has nothing to do with Star Wars or the Force. It has to do that historically, the high ground is always the ground you strive for in battle. What if scenarios are irrelevant, because any number of situations could've occured to change the outcome of the battle, it was a mixture of luck and a mixture of the high ground that gave Obi-Wan the ability to win the fight (if you can even look at it that way, since it is a movie). He wasn't as skilled as Anakin. Period. He was weaker and admitted it throughout Episodes II and III. Anakin's arrogance that he could overtake the higher ground from Obi-Wan was his downfall.

1) I understand the concept of higher ground tacticly speaking.

2) I understand that the point was to highlight anikens arrogance leading to his downfall.

3) I dont understand why a better plot device couldnt have been dreamt up given that these two individuals were making 50-100 feet jumps not 5 minutes previous, yet all of a sudden a 10-20 foot jum leads to aniken getting his arm and feet cut off. A little bit more effort script wise would be nice.
And while we are at it, what new mother would die because she alcked the will to live when she has 2 children? This is beyond unreasonable. I have yet to meet a mother who wouldnt give up everything and fight tooth and nail for her children. If padme died before they were born, I would understand, but she was alive and saw her children, no mother would still not have the "will to live"

Maybe it's a Jedi rule.


Could be. Gives a lot of advantage to those that can climb dont you think?

Could be. Gives a lot of advantage to those that can climb dont you think?

Who can understand the minds of the jedi? They have no problem with slave armies, but are unable to grasp the concept of strategic bombing, for whatever reason.

Also they don't seem all that bright. (What, Palpatine is the Sith lord? They guy who spent the past 15years gathering more and more power into his hands? Who could have forseen that?)

They obviously live by a set of bizzaro rules that are totally opaque to the rest of us. Probably there is some strange jedi law that says whoever is higher on a small stone mountain must win any lightsaber battle, provided there is a large lava river backdrop.

Still, I thought the movie kicked ass.

This is beyond unreasonable.

Ah, I see what the problem is now: You just don't understand the fantasy/sci-fi general of any type of medium, that's all. Anything is possible, that's the point, and just because you don't understand it doesn't mean there's a better way to satiate yours, or anyone else's for that matters, desires to understand.

3) I dont understand why a better plot device couldnt have been dreamt up given that these two individuals were making 50-100 feet jumps not 5 minutes previous, yet all of a sudden a 10-20 foot jum leads to aniken getting his arm and feet cut off. A little bit more effort script wise would be nice.



Well, I am a complete and utter Star Wars nerd *pushes up glasses* so I do have a revealing fact. Anakin, according to the books/comics (which were written far before this movie), fell into carbanite. and did not get his arm and legs cut off by obi won. they just got disentegrated. i suppose thats revealing. *pushes up glasses yet again*

I think it was the Obi-Won taunting trick. Get Vader to do something rash and stupid by suddenly claming a small advantage now makes you the winner even after being slapped around by Vader for however long that fight was.

It works well.

Obi-Won: "Give up, I have the high ground"
Vader: "Oh no you don't! I'm going to jump OVER you with all my defences down to prove you wrong!"
Slice slice.

Obi-Won: "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can imagine"
Vader: "We'll see about THAT!"
Slice
Obi-Won is now able to guide Luke into a Jedi without having to worry about Vader holding him (Obi-Won) hostage.

See? Works great.

Who can understand the minds of the jedi? They have no problem with slave armies, but are unable to grasp the concept of strategic bombing, for whatever reason.

Also they don't seem all that bright. (What, Palpatine is the Sith lord? They guy who spent the past 15years gathering more and more power into his hands? Who could have forseen that?)

They obviously live by a set of bizzaro rules that are totally opaque to the rest of us. Probably there is some strange jedi law that says whoever is higher on a small stone mountain must win any lightsaber battle, provided there is a large lava river backdrop.

Still, I thought the movie kicked ass.

Movie did kick ass

lets look at some other bizarre Jedi rules.

1) embarress/humiliate people strong in the force so that they will be more iclined to join the enemy

2) be able to use your lightsaber to stop blaster fire, except if comes from the clone army.

3) Have the abilty to sense the future, but be discouraged from using said ability by everyone.

4) have an amazing array of powers, but never seriously incorporte them
into your combat stlye.

Movie did kick ass

lets look at some other bizarre Jedi rules.

1) embarress/humiliate people strong in the force so that they will be more iclined to join the enemy

2) be able to use your lightsaber to stop blaster fire, except if comes from the clone army.

3) Have the abilty to sense the future, but be discouraged from using said ability by everyone.

4) have an amazing array of powers, but never seriously incorporte them
into your combat stlye.


True that.

And how comes in all those years with the Palpatine, Darth Vader never learned the lightning trick? Wasn't he even a little bit curious? I know I would be.

Also, I think at this point, we can definitively say Yoda is a total quitter. He fights Palpatine for like 2 minutes (and remember the fate of the entire galaxy depends on the outcome of this battle) then decides: 'Beaten I am, I must go hide now. Live in swamp I will.' Without even being slightly wounded or anything. Again, that must be some Jedi rule.

Also, when hiding a child, just place it with the person who you are hiding it from's relatives. And don't change the last name either. Because god knows, it is not like anyone would even be remotely suspicious when a kid named "skywalker" turned up. Even though Dad is the second most powerful man in the galaxy and also called skywalker.

ok some of the stuff you guys are comming up with is hilarious

but the higher ground quote is purly symbolic, lucas threw it in there to add grevitas to the movie, he says it because he's managed to beat anakin to the physically higher ground but also because he has a morally superior position and incorporating this with the whole bit about balance and the force, so obi wan means that anakin can never win because he is spirtually, morally, and physically superior in case. the connotation is really of greatest import, not the denotation that he is simply higher up

Side note, anyone else notice that Yoda refers to "The emporer" and that Aniken was "consumed by Vader" in that scene with the holorecording? Even though the Emporer was in the process of declaring that fact in the special session of congress and neither Obi or Yoda had heard the name Vader before. (Unless it was on the recording, but I think he called him "Apprentice")

The highground deal, sure Ani could have jumped 100 feet in the air, but Ben could have jumped 103 feet in the air and repeated the trick. So tactically as well as symbolic it still works.

Stupid Jedi rule: 4 Jeedai Masters on 1 Sith Lord = 3 dead masters without even a grunt. 1 Jeedai master on 1 sith lord = long fight, disforming stand off and conversion of a padawan.

Look, I really liked the movie. I probably place it as no 2 or no 3 as far as favorite star wars movies goes.

I just dont get the last bits of the Aniken/obi wan fight scene.

Everything was fine up until Obi wan goes "give it up, I have the higher ground"

I keep thinking WTF

werent these people just fighting on a metal tower in the middle of a burning river of lava?

Didnt these people just jump off of that tower onto smaller platforms on a burning river of lava.

And all of a sudden 1 guy is saying "Its over, I have the higher ground"?

I want to say HELLO, you guys are jumping up and down on small moving platforms in the middle of a burning river of lava, I doubt that someone being a few feet higher up or lower down is your biggest issue.


Its like this:

Lucas deals in metaphors.

In fencing, having the high ground means two things, reach, and defensibilty.
Remember playing "King Of the Hill" when you were young?
One guy would be the "King" and everyone else would try to knock him off the top and take his spot.
Wasnt always so easy was it?
Now imagine youve got another three feet of deadly reach at your fingertips.
You can reach farther down, than your oppononent can reach up.

So..in order to reach Obi-Wan, Anakin had to over-extend himself to attack.
Had he merely stepped towards Obi-Wan, and took a defensive stance, he would have been fine.
But he didnt, he chose to press the attack. Why? Becuase Sith Lords use the Dark Side for hate, and anger, and most of all...attack.

So..whats this all mean?

Lucas deals in metaphors.....When Obi-Wan says "I have the high ground", he really is refering to the moral high ground, as well as the tactical advantage.

Want more?

After cutting off Anakin's legs, and his "Chosen One" speech, Obi-Wan turns away, instead of helping his former freind, and student.

Why?

Also, metaphorish.

Obi Wan claims the moral and tactical high ground before defeating his enemy, and yet, when his opponent is soundly defeated, and his rescue is possible...Obi-Wan shows us that deep down, it doesnt matter if you claim the moral high ground or not...your deeds define who you are.

Also, I think at this point, we can definitively say Yoda is a total quitter. He fights Palpatine for like 2 minutes (and remember the fate of the entire galaxy depends on the outcome of this battle) then decides: 'Beaten I am, I must go hide now. Live in swamp I will.' Without even being slightly wounded or anything. Again, that must be some Jedi rule.

Ok..you diss the Green Guy..I gotta come to his defense.

Picture this:

You're the most powerful, and learned Jedi alive.
You discover Palpatine is a Sith Master, and you duke it out with him.
You give it all you have, and the best you can do is manage to get away with your life.
Too evenly matched.

Now, remember that your nearing nine HUNDRED years old, and at the end of your life....your powers are not what they used to be.

Obi-Wan..your younger counterpart is strong, but not capable of taking down the emporer.

Gotta wait till the Chosen One shows up.
Train him to kill Palpatine and Vader.

Regarding Padme dying...

I'm fairly sure that this was completely related to *prepares for groans* midichlorians.

All her midicholorians somehow went into making Luke and Leia into the destined beings that they were...so she no longer had even the small number of midichlorians that all beings have, and thus was unable to survive.

Ok..you diss the Green Guy..I gotta come to his defense.

Picture this:

You're the most powerful, and learned Jedi alive.
You discover Palpatine is a Sith Master, and you duke it out with him.
You give it all you have, and the best you can do is manage to get away with your life.
Too evenly matched.

Now, remember that your nearing nine HUNDRED years old, and at the end of your life....your powers are not what they used to be.

Obi-Wan..your younger counterpart is strong, but not capable of taking down the emporer.

Gotta wait till the Chosen One shows up.
Train him to kill Palpatine and Vader.

Talking about Yoda,

In this movie he is full of energy and bouncing off walls when he fights. Yet 18 years later he is wasted and old. 18 years is a long time for normal people, but it should not be that big a deal for someone who is 900 years old.

Talking about Yoda,

In this movie he is full of energy and bouncing off walls when he fights. Yet 18 years later he is wasted and old. 18 years is a long time for normal people, but it should not be that big a deal for someone who is 900 years old.

You do what you have to.
I know someone that are damn near crippled, with nerve damage on almost their entire left side, but should it be necessary he can fight off three uninjured people.

Besides, old people can take sudden declines. I know people that were 90+ years old, going fine, then dead two weeks later.

Just watch ep. I and II again, Anikin always get his but kicked when fighting on a slant, it does'nt have anything to do with all of the previous posts.

And why in the name of the Force did Obi-wan just leave Anakin for dead? Surely Obi-wan could have sensed that he was alive enough to survive.
Not really. I thought Anakin did in fact die, but came back, having conquered death just as Palpatine told him he would be able to once he had gone over to the Dark side. So when Obi left him he was dead.

Talking about Yoda,

In this movie he is full of energy and bouncing off walls when he fights. Yet 18 years later he is wasted and old. 18 years is a long time for normal people, but it should not be that big a deal for someone who is 900 years old.
Ture, but maybe Yoda had given up on life because everything he had lived for was destroyed and he had been able to do nothing to prevent it, nor kill the people responsible.
Once you lose the will to live, you tend to deteriorate very quickly.

I thought Anakin did in fact die, but came back, having conquered death just as Palpatine told him he would be able to once he had gone over to the Dark side. So when Obi left him he was dead.
As I recall, Palps never told Anakin that he could overcome death, only that he could be able to control the midichlorians in the bodies of other people (read: Padmé's) to prevent them from dying.

Much more subtle and cleverer way of manipulating Ani than promising him immortality, if you ask me.

This topic should give up. I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND.

Actually a point about Yoda and Obi Wan

When Obi Wan appears on Hoth, he says something along the lines of

"Find Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me"

Now lets reverse a few films....

And who is this beared man who looks strangely like Liam Nesson wearing a robe? Was Yoda taller, pink and speakly sensibly in the old days? No. It Qui Gon Jinn. Damn script writers.

Also why doesn't Mace Windu's face melt like Palpatine's when he gets hit by the force lightening and tossed from the window?

I could go on. But I wont. Because I know something.

ITS A FILM AND SCRIPT WRITERS MAKE MISTAKES.