Farrisland
22-05-2005, 19:40
It keeps saying that the thread is closed. I'm pretty sure everyone else is having this problem as well. I just had some things to reply to is all.
To Tekania (my replies in bold):
"It's not about taste, it's about principle... I am reading your posts... Which is why I keep posting... Because I do think people can change... And I do believe people can be reasoned with. But at the same time, I would not let my person feeling on an issue over ride my sense of American-ism as a principle. But see, you can't believe "these people shouldn't".... Not if you're going to claim "American" principle... Because, if you let this bias influnce your own speech, how then can you claim any validity upon the core principles?
The reason I fight so vehemently against your words... Is because they are dangerous. Just as dangerous as any act of treason. They are what others see.... Why do you think so many other countries view Americans as hypocrical monsters? because I words do not match our ideals... We represent American, and we should represent its ideals, in words and deeds... Even in the face of views and people in opposition. When you're levying advocation towards banishment, and dis-service of rights upon people like Jane Fonda, others will American as such in general. They realize that we can't advocate in words removal of rights, while in principle supposedly standing by those foundational principles of "America" that makes as special to begin with.
Our damaged credibility as Americans, is not the fault of the United Nations, the UK, any of the Eurpean nations.... It's our own fault... Because, we supposedly live under a set of guideline principles, that we violate almost everytime we open our mouths. Opinions are nice.... but principles are better...
Our founding Fathers even saw our own shortcommings, even before we were founded... They fought, as I fight, against those shortcommings in word...
When we had slavery, it was so obvious to some that it was against our principles... AS time went on, it became more so... It took a war for it all to end... Because some did not want to correct the injustice we presented in the name of these principles...
And sometimes these principles come with a price... Thomas Paine, after advocating for the Revolution here in the American Colonies, did the same in France leading in their revolution... He was trodden on by the French for opposing the mistreatment of the aristocracy... Why? Because it was against the principles of liberty he had advocated so much for. Revolution was one thing, outright spiteful murder was another... When we inherited the ideals of the Enlightenment, and codified them as a nation, we adhered to a responsibility of representing that enlightenment; which indeed includes there very words we speak, and acts we advocate... When we advocate things, or form opinions contrary to those principles, we show ourselves as hypocrits. If you're going to have principles, you have to stand by them, even if they hinder your own self or any moral order of yourself.
When someone sees you, and your talk, they see an American, someone in the United States who claims allegence to your country... And thereby judge you from word and deed... What are you expecting them to see when they see you as an american bringing epiteths upon someone, advocating the denial of their rights, merely from an opinion.... Do you not think they to formulate an opinion of yourself, and of Americans in general? Can you not see the importance of yourself as an agent, and representative of America everytime you stand before others?
I don't agree with the views of KKK members, or Aryan Nations types... I don't agree with the republicans, I don't agree with the democrats... I don't hate them, and I disagree with their views.... I don't hate Jane Fonda either...I don't agree with her, but I don't hate her... I don't think she should be banished, and I don't think (as someone advocated) that post-facto law should be layed upon her head under the Patriot Act. I think she should be accorded every right we all have in possession by nature... And I don't think anyone should advocate otherwise, while at the same time claiming to represent those principles we should hold dear as Americans...
If we're going to claim to be a beacon, we have to act like one... and talk like one... "
Personally, I see no problem with a "these people shouldn't" type opinion. It has to do with moral values. Certain things are wrong, and people shouldn't do them.
I advocate such things, because I hate that people can do and say such terrible things and aren't held accountable. It's as if it wasn't against the law.
I realize that some foreigners don't care for us. I doubt it's my fault. I think it's more because of actions than words. They were on our side for a minute there, and it's truly a shame that we ruined that.
Yeah, Thomas Paine was a brilliant man and he was one for speaking out, but I don't see the connection between him and Fonda.
I really hope foreigners don't judge us based on everything we say, because we certainly don't do that to them. I don't judge them based on the awful things they say about us.
To Tekania (my replies in bold):
"It's not about taste, it's about principle... I am reading your posts... Which is why I keep posting... Because I do think people can change... And I do believe people can be reasoned with. But at the same time, I would not let my person feeling on an issue over ride my sense of American-ism as a principle. But see, you can't believe "these people shouldn't".... Not if you're going to claim "American" principle... Because, if you let this bias influnce your own speech, how then can you claim any validity upon the core principles?
The reason I fight so vehemently against your words... Is because they are dangerous. Just as dangerous as any act of treason. They are what others see.... Why do you think so many other countries view Americans as hypocrical monsters? because I words do not match our ideals... We represent American, and we should represent its ideals, in words and deeds... Even in the face of views and people in opposition. When you're levying advocation towards banishment, and dis-service of rights upon people like Jane Fonda, others will American as such in general. They realize that we can't advocate in words removal of rights, while in principle supposedly standing by those foundational principles of "America" that makes as special to begin with.
Our damaged credibility as Americans, is not the fault of the United Nations, the UK, any of the Eurpean nations.... It's our own fault... Because, we supposedly live under a set of guideline principles, that we violate almost everytime we open our mouths. Opinions are nice.... but principles are better...
Our founding Fathers even saw our own shortcommings, even before we were founded... They fought, as I fight, against those shortcommings in word...
When we had slavery, it was so obvious to some that it was against our principles... AS time went on, it became more so... It took a war for it all to end... Because some did not want to correct the injustice we presented in the name of these principles...
And sometimes these principles come with a price... Thomas Paine, after advocating for the Revolution here in the American Colonies, did the same in France leading in their revolution... He was trodden on by the French for opposing the mistreatment of the aristocracy... Why? Because it was against the principles of liberty he had advocated so much for. Revolution was one thing, outright spiteful murder was another... When we inherited the ideals of the Enlightenment, and codified them as a nation, we adhered to a responsibility of representing that enlightenment; which indeed includes there very words we speak, and acts we advocate... When we advocate things, or form opinions contrary to those principles, we show ourselves as hypocrits. If you're going to have principles, you have to stand by them, even if they hinder your own self or any moral order of yourself.
When someone sees you, and your talk, they see an American, someone in the United States who claims allegence to your country... And thereby judge you from word and deed... What are you expecting them to see when they see you as an american bringing epiteths upon someone, advocating the denial of their rights, merely from an opinion.... Do you not think they to formulate an opinion of yourself, and of Americans in general? Can you not see the importance of yourself as an agent, and representative of America everytime you stand before others?
I don't agree with the views of KKK members, or Aryan Nations types... I don't agree with the republicans, I don't agree with the democrats... I don't hate them, and I disagree with their views.... I don't hate Jane Fonda either...I don't agree with her, but I don't hate her... I don't think she should be banished, and I don't think (as someone advocated) that post-facto law should be layed upon her head under the Patriot Act. I think she should be accorded every right we all have in possession by nature... And I don't think anyone should advocate otherwise, while at the same time claiming to represent those principles we should hold dear as Americans...
If we're going to claim to be a beacon, we have to act like one... and talk like one... "
Personally, I see no problem with a "these people shouldn't" type opinion. It has to do with moral values. Certain things are wrong, and people shouldn't do them.
I advocate such things, because I hate that people can do and say such terrible things and aren't held accountable. It's as if it wasn't against the law.
I realize that some foreigners don't care for us. I doubt it's my fault. I think it's more because of actions than words. They were on our side for a minute there, and it's truly a shame that we ruined that.
Yeah, Thomas Paine was a brilliant man and he was one for speaking out, but I don't see the connection between him and Fonda.
I really hope foreigners don't judge us based on everything we say, because we certainly don't do that to them. I don't judge them based on the awful things they say about us.