NationStates Jolt Archive

Here's what Ian Pearson - head of the futurology at BT - thinks the future is going to be like:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1489635,00.html

Doenloading brains onto PCs to become immortal - sounds like shite to me :D any opinions?

You cannot download a persons mind into a machine. You would loose any point of existing

You cannot download a persons mind into a machine. You would loose any point of existing

cannot or should not? you assume theres a point to existing in the first place, why is it a problem to move from a chemical-electrical machine, such as the human body, to a purely electrical one?

cannot or should not? you assume theres a point to existing in the first place, why is it a problem to move from a chemical-electrical machine, such as the human body, to a purely electrical one?

A human being has a limited life span for a reason. If we were meant to live forever, then we would, but we don't

What if a 'mind' being downloaded into a machine developes some form of psychological problem? That'll be literally an eternal hell...unless that 'mind' is able to recover....and I'm not sure if coding could prevent it...since that would be like interfering and micro-manage with the thought process itself...might as well just create a machine that thinks. I'm skeptical of all these visions though...but its interesting to pounder over them...Imagine that all of us exists like borgs...where our minds are all links into a greater whole... :)

A human being has a limited life span for a reason. If we were meant to live forever, then we would, but we don't

It's like saying we should not be seeking medical treatment, just because our immune system isn't able to fight a certain disease..

You cannot download a persons mind into a machine. You would loose any point of existing
I agree. Not only is our concept of self wrapped up in the mind-body paradigm, but this approach would totally eliminate sex! I would go insane, as I suspect, would most if not all others.

The mind isn't an entity unto itself. It develops experientially along with the body. Separating the two would result in madness. Seriously.

I agree. Not only is our concept of self wrapped up in the mind-body paradigm, but this approach would totally eliminate sex! I would go insane, as I suspect, would most if not all others.

The mind isn't an entity unto itself. It develops experientially along with the body. Separating the two would result in madness. Seriously.

Philosphers (sp?) claim that the mind and brain are seperate entities

Thats actually a good idea. Eliminate the confines of a mortal body, and live as purly a mind. The only problem as mentioned would be the sudden separation from physical sensations, but that is just information being fed to the consciousness. If we had the technology to do this, I'm sure we could feed false information to the mind, still feeling body parts, sensation, pleasure. The mind should also be able to properly manage and in time control the info it was being fed, allowing it to create its own reality(s). Sounds like heaven - no death, no pain, total reality control... yes that would be awesome.

The technology will be immediately banned in the US. In fact, after the CIA reads this thread, Bush will start working against it right now. After he fixes social security and stem cell research.

To be fair the technology would need to be PERFECT, before anyone should mess with anyone's mind, it should be completely voluntary, and I'm sure there are a host of other concerns moral and technological to deal with, but this is quite possibly mankind's cup of immortality.

Philosphers (sp?) claim that the mind and brain are seperate entities
They're wrong. Mind arrises out of the brain-body development based on genetics and experience. In fact, the endocrine system is part of the nervous system, which may go a long way toward explaining cases where death has been delayed by willpower and laughter, to mention two.

Surely the downloaded brain would not actually be you, therefore you still die, but you leave a duplacate around to continue existing forever. Which to me sounds pointless unless you're exceptionally gifted and smart.

So how about this. If, in the future, it is possible to download the human mind into a computer I would imagine they would also be able to copy it onto memory storage, right? So download it from there and see what happens. If it goes nuts reach over and unplug it.

They're wrong. Mind arrises out of the brain-body development based on genetics and experience. In fact, the endocrine system is part of the nervous system, which may go a long way toward explaining cases where death has been delayed by willpower and laughter, to mention two.
You're thinking on a literal level. Sure, it's good in some circumstances, but sometimes you have to admit there are things you cannot prove. For example, taste. If, as you claim, mind and brain are one and the same, I should be able to cut open your head, and find out EXACTLY how your breakfast tasted to you. But I can't do that. The mind is what gives you that taste, but I can't access your mind from the brain, therefore it is, logically, a seperate entity

You're thinking on a literal level. Sure, it's good in some circumstances, but sometimes you have to admit there are things you cannot prove. For example, taste. If, as you claim, mind and brain are one and the same, I should be able to cut open your head, and find out EXACTLY how your breakfast tasted to you. But I can't do that. The mind is what gives you that taste, but I can't access your mind from the brain, therefore it is, logically, a seperate entity
The concept of "taste," like most other concepts, is an entirely subjective representation, in this case, of a chemical reaction between taste buds and chemicals in the food you eat.

Science is the systematic gathering and interpretation of information about the universe. Philosophy is a field which attempts to answer questions which science has yet to answer. These two epistemologies, while not necessarily in conflict, are mutually exclusive.

BTW ... I didn't claim that mind and brain are "one and the same." Mind arrises out of brain/body development.

If you take everything based upon what science tells you, what happens when science is wrong? What will you do then?

If you take everything based upon what science tells you, what happens when science is wrong? What will you do then?
Change my views. :)

Science is a dynamic system, updated and reviewed continously. We are, after all, still learning as a race, yes?

Here's what Ian Pearson - head of the futurology at BT - thinks the future is going to be like:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1489635,00.html

Doenloading brains onto PCs to become immortal - sounds like shite to me :D any opinions?
Transhumanists have been talking about this one for years. They've even got some research group trying to figure out the brain-scanning bit.

The guy is over predicting. People always think the future is more than it actually becomes---I mean, look at all the guys who predicted we'd all have flying cars by 1999!

Here's what Ian Pearson - head of the futurology at BT - thinks the future is going to be like:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1489635,00.html

Doenloading brains onto PCs to become immortal - sounds like shite to me :D any opinions?

The thing that makes us unique is accumulated knowledge and memories.I personally believe the Hieros Gamos was originally enacted to transfer the "mind" of the ancient to the apprentice. Shamans were believed to be immortal because of this transfer of knowledge.What is missing is the transfer of memories.Not the body,but the mind can become immortal through a process of "downloading" the entire human experience from one to another.

It is our internal person that is the real us.The body is superficial and does not give us character.The thoughts and memories are the real person we are.I believe many of the ancient rituals were attempts to keep the dying alive by instilling their memories into an initiate.It makes for interesting science fiction and spirituality combined.

Anyone who's seen .Hack//Sign knows that that's a bad thing. The things you can be subjected to on computers can be even worse than death; imagine having little pieces of yourself being gradually deleted...

The guy is over predicting. People always think the future is more than it actually becomes---I mean, look at all the guys who predicted we'd all have flying cars by 1999!
What? You don't have yours?

If it's possible to be downloaded to a computer or to a machine, I'll be first in line. I'd like a body that can go underwater first. Like a shark, but able to go much deeper, not necessarily fast.

I guess I'll have to surface from time to time to tell what I've seen and to download the messages from General. Unless there's another way to access the internet under water.

The mind isn't an entity unto itself. It develops experientially along with the body. Separating the two would result in madness. Seriously.
Most people are quite mad, anyway. I don't think it will be much worse than the current disassociation pathologies that almost everybody suffers, plus one hopes people will be better informed and more rational.

Downloading the brain onto some sort of artificial hardware isn't such a far-fetched thing, really. Assuming the hardware has the adaptability of the human mind (which, at the rate of technological acceleration, this may not be impossible by 2050), it would not only be feasable but perhaps practical. And if the mind-body paradigm is what you're concerned about, just build yourself a super-realistic cybernetic body, slip the hardware brain into the skull, and go back to walking the dog as you would have done any other morning. I've watched "Ghost In The Shell" far too many times.

Most people are quite mad, anyway. I don't think it will be much worse than the current disassociation pathologies that almost everybody suffers, plus one hopes people will be better informed and more rational.
Perhaps I was a bit unclear: it will not work. Without somatic and spatial reference, the best that can be expected is that the mind will go tee-total insane. I rather suspect that any mind being transferred will simply cease to exist immediately after separation from the brain/body.

Perhaps I was a bit unclear: it will not work. Without somatic and spatial reference, the best that can be expected is that the mind will go tee-total insane. I rather suspect that any mind being transferred will simply cease to exist immediately after separation from the brain/body.
Perhaps, perhaps not. There could be a mechanism that helps you adapt during the teenage years that might be of help in this instance. Maybe we should wait until it has actually been tried and there are some kind of results to comment on.

Nevertheless, most people are quite mad.

Perhaps, perhaps not. There could be a mechanism that helps you adapt during the teenage years that might be of help in this instance. Maybe we should wait until it has actually been tried and there are some kind of results to comment on.

Nevertheless, most people are quite mad.
LOL! One man's madness is another's nirvana! :D

A human being has a limited life span for a reason. If we were meant to live forever we would, but we don't.

Personally, I die all the time. Where is that little kid I was when I was five? He's gone. For all practicle purposes he's dead. Just some vauge memories. Same with the ten year old me and the fifteen year old me, etc. All pretty much dead. In fifty years time the you you are now will be dead, even if your name and a few personality traits and memories are still connected with a living breathing body.

That's why I can never figure out this heaven thing. Which me will I be in afterlife? The cute kid, the hot teenager, the senile old fool?

Anyways, I know how we can download people into machines, although we don't have computers that can run the program yet. It will be done, as long as we don't blow ourselves up or anything. I can also see all sorts of domestic problems.

WIFE: I want to divorce my husbands original physical form, but stay married to his downloaded form.
HUSBAND'S ORIGINAL FORM: Eh? What? Speak louder!
HUSBAND'S DOWNLOADED FORM: Because I can think a thousand times faster than you meat brains, I'm evolving into something beyond human intelligence. You are nothing more than ants to me.
WIFE: But I can still download you into the vibratertron, can't I?

I personally think it's a very bad idea for a number of reasons, such as how you would know whether your digital form isn't being manipulated, which would be rather easy to do if you are a piece of software. Someone has to run and make the stuff used and they would probably have the power to do that.

In addition, I personally think it would be rather fake, so to speak. You would basically just get the simulation of everything and a simulation, no matter how realistic, is still a fake. I personally would prefer the real thing. That, and how are you going to have sex or eat food in one of these things? Would they be able to simulate that?