NationStates Jolt Archive

Well people, we now have Star Trek vs. what many people have called "The Star Trek of Japan." Anything goes, from any series from each (excluding G Gundam, SD Gundam for obvious reasons.....)

The way I see it, this battle is basically quantity vs. quality. Considering that Star Trek spans the entire galaxy and Gundam only spans Earth, the moon, and some space colonies.

The one big advantage that I see from Gundam is that a mobile suit is designed to outperform any conventional starfighter ('least in the Gundam universe). But then again Trek has the Borg. How to resist Borgification, this is a conundrum (but a Borgified Gundam, that would be sweet).....hmm, perhaps some psycommu-based weapon could work on the Borg? Not sure how they could adapt to an attack like that.

well breaking it down by the numbers

story wise i prefer UC(thats universal century) gundam. it's an epic spanning timeline covering over 200 years
(0079-0223:
UC 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam
Mobile Suit Gundam: The 08th MS Team
Mobile Suit Gundam: Cross Dimension 0079
Mobile Suit Gundam Side Story: The Blue Destiny
Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket

UC 0083
Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory

UC 0087
Mobile Suit Z Gundam

UC 0088
Gundam Sentinel
Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ

UC 0090
Double Fake

UC 0093
Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack

UC 0105
Hathaway's Flash

UC 0120
Mobile Suit Gundam F90

UC 0122
Mobile Suit Gundam F91: Formula Wars 0122

UC 0123 Mobile Suit Gundam: Silhouette Formula 91
Mobile Suit Gundam F91

UC 0133
Mobile Suit Crossbone Gundam

UC 0153
Mobile Suit V Gundam

UC 0203
Gaia Gear)with interesting human falwed characters.


tech wise:
trek easily beats gundam. the simple fact that trek has more resorces and faster than light travel capabilities would give it a hands down victory against the gundam universe.

Normally, I argue against Trek on every conceivable conflict, up to and including "Star Trek vs A Blind Incontinent Leper With Piles" but in this instance, I'll say Star Trek, simply because I hate transformable mecha even more. As much as I loathe Trek's utter blandness and technobabble, I really find the idea of transformable mecha outperforming purpose-built conventional starfighters totally absurd.

It's just weird - like there's someone so caught up in the idea of robotic armor packed chock-a-block full of firepower that it never occurs to them just how patently stupid the whole concept is?

Seems like nearly every other day some geek creates a thread talking about Gundam this, Gundam that, like any of it means anything to anyone other than to other hardcore Gundam geeks.

Star Trek might not be such hot sh*t, but I'd sooner stare like an entranced orangutan at that than at any more of that dreary Japanese animation that just drags on (...and on...and on...ad infinitum).

Live-character drama beats out crappy Japanese animation 9 times out of 10, and more often than that assuming Gerry Anderson wasn't involved.

Wing zero would tear the Enterprise a new one....

Normally, I argue against Trek on every conceivable conflict, up to and including "Star Trek vs A Blind Incontinent Leper With Piles" but in this instance, I'll say Star Trek, simply because I hate transformable mecha even more. As much as I loathe Trek's utter blandness and technobabble, I really find the idea of transformable mecha outperforming purpose-built conventional starfighters totally absurd.

The vast majority of Gundams, mobile suits, and mobile armors are fixed form vehicles.

There are only three transforming Gundams that I can think of. The Zeta Gundam's waverider mode was designed simply to allow unassisted atmospheric entry.
The Double Zeta wasn't really a mobile suit. There is a reason its flight mode was called a "mobile fortress". It was meant to be a giant heavily armored weapons platform and it did that job fairly well.

Wing Gundam and Wing Zero don't count. They're more akin to Super Robots than realistic war machines.

Mobile suits don't have the speed of a fighter. Mobile suits are too large and heavy to be employed in fighter roles due to their onboard reactors. However, there are more heavily armed and armored and, more importantly, they possess superior agility in space.

Most Mobile suits are purpose built of a specific role. Usualy that role is close-range space combat, a role which they excell at. Mobile suits are far more useful than a fighter.

Minovsky particals generated by the reactors that are used in the UC timeline render radar useless. All combat takes place within visual range. This makes slower but more agile (and radar-proof) close combat weapons far more usefull than fast-moving fighters.

gundam wins only if your talking the old school gundam with the tournament and all.

Most Mobile suits are purpose built of a specific role. Usualy that role is close-range space combat, a role which they excell at.

Does nobody realise quite how thoroughly ridiculous the idea of 'close-range space combat' is?

In any case, both giant space robots and starfighters will never be practical in space warfare anyway, so it doesn't really matter which is better.

clearly transformers kick all their asses anyway.

There is one word (letter actually) that says Star Trek will beat nearly anything online uber-geeks can throw at it, Q.

As for giant robot anime in general, I've always felt that Macross was the only series that really had a good reason to make giant robots, and that was to fight giant aliens. Most everything else was to sell toys. (Macross sold toys too, but that's besides the point :D.)

Star Trek puts Gundam to shame in a confrontation...no question about it

I'll take organized, trained, armed to the teeth and decent shields to boot Starfleet over those silly Gundams.Besides, a reasonably well equipped Enterprise can kick the butt of anything. :D

Does nobody realise quite how thoroughly ridiculous the idea of 'close-range space combat' is?

In any case, both giant space robots and starfighters will never be practical in space warfare anyway, so it doesn't really matter which is better.

When the purpose is to capture and occupy space colonies close rage combat is most reasonable.

When the purpose is to capture and occupy space colonies close rage combat is most reasonable.

Not really, no. It will never be reasonable when you can snipe from 5,000 km away with a laser for a fraction of the cost.

I like Gundam better as show, never got into Star Trek.

Of course, that works wonders when the enemies you are sniping at are behind the walls of the space colony that you want to capture intact.

Does nobody realise quite how thoroughly ridiculous the idea of 'close-range space combat' is?

In any case, both giant space robots and starfighters will never be practical in space warfare anyway, so it doesn't really matter which is better.

It doesn't even come close to the ridiculousness of the ENTIRE Star REk franchise. Star Trek is science-fiction for people with a cripppled imagaination.

It doesn't even come close to the ridiculousness of the ENTIRE Star REk franchise. Star Trek is science-fiction for people with a cripppled imagaination.

Well, while I do agree that Star Trek is indeed a piece of crap, I don't think it contains anything quite as ridiculous as giant space robots.

Of course, that works wonders when the enemies you are sniping at are behind the walls of the space colony that you want to capture intact.

How exactly is 'close range space combat' appropriate in this situation, then?

More appropriate solutions are the ol' space marine boarding party, or just blockading and starving them out. Or you threaten to blow them to bits unless they surrender. Either way, I can't see I giant robot being of much use in such a situation.

How exactly is 'close range space combat' appropriate in this situation, then?

More appropriate solutions are the ol' space marine boarding party, or just blockading and starving them out. Or you threaten to blow them to bits unless they surrender. Either way, I can't see I giant robot being of much use in such a situation.

You answered the question yourself. Boarding party. In order to board the colony you have to get close to the colony. One might expect the colony's defense forces to make an attempt to fight back.

You answered the question yourself. Boarding party. In order to board the colony you have to get close to the colony. One might expect the colony's defense forces to make an attempt to fight back.

This still doesn't explain where a giant robot designed for close combat is going to be useful.

This still doesn't explain where a giant robot designed for close combat is going to be useful.

To fight the giant robots that are attacking your boarding party.

To fight the giant robots that are attacking your boarding party.

Eh? Why would there be giant robots fighting your boarding party? That doesn't even make sense.

Anyway, you shoot the giant robots first from >5000km away, and then send in the marines. There's never any need to fight something at close range in space, when you can just shoot it from outside visual range.

i see this is an appropriate time to bring in some gundam universe tech and history.

to all those making "silly giant robots" acusations.

in the gundam universe "mobile suits" are just that. they were originally designed as exoskeleton suits to be used in space construction. as the construction projects got bigger so did the "suits"

it wasn't until the zeon rebellion that they were modified for military use.

it should also be noted that the "transforming" variants saw thier greatest use in the zeta/double zeta era. a period of mabey 5 years before both sides realized the wasted amount of resources that went into R&D as well as production. which is why the later REGZ(mas production zeta gundam) did nopt transform but unstead carried a fighter like backpack attachment that could be jetisoned if need be.

as for this
Anyway, you shoot the giant robots first from >5000km away, and then send in the marines. There's never any need to fight something at close range in space, when you can just shoot it from outside visual range.
the only problem with this tactic(which is sound from the trek side) is which universe the battle takes place in. this is because we bring into play minovsky particles if it is in the gundam universe. the technology behind the minovsky micro fusion reactors forced the gundam universe to become a realatively VISUAL line of site, close combat arena. on the principles they operate under NONE of the automated tracking systems on trek ships would work so they would have to get close to shoot manually, communications would be difficult, and it's very likely transporters would not work.

treks real bonus in this setting is the fact they always have some shields(I-field generators in gundam are only used on specific units because of thier size and power consumption) and more importantly faster than light travel which allows them to dictate the course of the battle. or fall back to safety if neccisary.

the only problem with this tactic(which is sound from the trek side) is which universe the battle takes place in. this is because we bring into play minovsky particles if it is in the gundam universe. the technology behind the minovsky micro fusion reactors forced the gundam universe to become a realatively VISUAL line of site, close combat arena. on the principles they operate under NONE of the automated tracking systems on trek ships would work so they would have to get close to shoot manually, communications would be difficult, and it's very likely transporters would not work.

You mean they actually came up with some ludicrous contrived re-writing of the entire laws of physics by which the easiest way to solve a problem in space is for two robots to fly up to each other and hit each other? That's quite laughable, when the only reason it really happens is 'robots R kewl'.

In any case, I was talking about how likely it is for giant space robots to be practical in reality.

You mean they actually came up with some ludicrous contrived re-writing of the entire laws of physics by which the easiest way to solve a problem in space is for two robots to fly up to each other and hit each other?
Yep.

Usually the people who say Star Trek is crap are people who are

A. Too ignorant to appreciate it.

or

B. Never seen a single episode in their life, or saw a bad one and based their opinion of the entire series off that.

Usually the people who say Star Trek is crap are people who are

A. Too ignorant to appreciate it.

or

B. Never seen a single episode in their life, or saw a bad one and based their opinion of the entire series off that.

Most of it is okay, except for the next generation. That sucked big time. I didn't like thrity something, so why would I like thirty something in space?

Usually the people who say Star Trek is crap are people who are

A. Too ignorant to appreciate it.



Ignorant of what, exactly?