NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok. So I am watching the news and I hear about a little girl who gets murdered by her own father on mothers day. During the report we hear a speech given by the mother where she says "i know God is taking care of her now."

Here is my question for religious people. If God is everywhere then why wasn't he taking care of this little girl when she was getting stabbed to death. And why is it that if the father confesses he is wrong, all is forgiven? Sure this all mighty and wonderful god is taking care of her now but what about before?

I have nothing against faith. Faith is what gets people through life. The thought that there is something better out there or that there is a meaning for all this. Whatever gets you through the day is fine with me. I just have a problem with religion and this so called God.

Second topic. God and Satan. Lucifer was God's highest ranking angel. His best pupil. His right hand man. All the things that Lucifer did that was considered evil was his job. God told him to do those things. He was following God's orders. Why was he cast aside? Because he thought he could run things better than God. Thats the reason. Thats the excuse. He was sick of doing God's dirty deeds and he was sent for eternity to a place of fire, burning and torture. Now, Lucifer is the poster child for evil. To me it doesn't seem like he is the evil one. God is the one who called for and caused those plagues and ordered the first children to die.

Third topic. God's interest. Right before the superbowl Football star Terrell Owens said about his fast recovery from a severe ankle sprain. "God was with me and helped me heal" This is the same week we had tidal waves in India. So what Owens is saying is that god cares more about the outcome of a football game than the title waves killing thousands of people. Yeah God is great I tell you.

Fourth topic. Awarding God. God did not help you get that award. So god was with you and noone else. the other people in the competition didn't have gods help. How selfish can one person be. Often times God is mentioned before family in aceptance speeches.

Fifth topic. Praying. If two teams pray before a game how does god decide who wins? Is he playing favorites?

Sixth topic. Aliens versus god. As my favorite comedian stated. "Why is it that there is more evidence that aliens exist than there is of god. Yet if believe in aliens you are crazy but if you believe in god you are on the right path?"

More topics coming.

what do you think?

Mr. or Ms. Whomever, will you marry me? :p

I think the problem is people try to attribute things to god that aint his, or try to discount what is his. The way I see it, God set up the program, and gave people and in Satans case Angels, free choice to move within the program of their own volition.
Personally, I dont think God put his finger on a football players leg to make it heal faster. But if that player faith is enough to make him play his heart out, cool. By the same token, God isnt here to protect man from everything. Hurricans, floods, fires, ect come and kill, those with faith and those w/out each get the fruits of their labors. If god prevented bad from happening, we might as well be robots.

Mr. or Ms. Whomever, will you marry me? :p

You'll have to fight me for him/her!!! :p

topic number 1

her little girl is dead and she is trying to deal with unimaginable grief and guilt. so she comforts herself with the idea that her little girl is in heaven with god and that she will see her again some day. you would take that small measure of hope away from her with the cold fact that she will never ever see her daughter again?

god was not there to prevent the fathers free will to murder but he was there to help that mother cope with her loss. he keeps her safe until they can be reunited in heaven. is that such a terrible thing to believe?

You're assuming that everyone who reads this is Christian. There are those who aren't Chrisitan in NS, and I hope they avoid this subject. I know I will from now on.

'gnostic. Hi.

Ok. So I am watching the news and I hear about a little girl who gets murdered by her own father on mothers day. During the report we hear a speech given by the mother where she says "i know God is taking care of her now."

Here is my question for religious people. If God is everywhere then why wasn't he taking care of this little girl when she was getting stabbed to death. And why is it that if the father confesses he is wrong, all is forgiven? Sure this all mighty and wonderful god is taking care of her now but what about before?

I have nothing against faith. Faith is what gets people through life. The thought that there is something better out there or that there is a meaning for all this. Whatever gets you through the day is fine with me. I just have a problem with religion and this so called God.

Firstly, I'd have to say that without her faith in God, that woman would be in a state of utter despair right around now. Her husband a murderous lunatic, her daughter the victim of his crimes, both arising on a day when she was expecting to be able to share in the love and respect she spent with her family. She'd have every reason to lose all hope in life at that stage. Yet she didn't. Regardless of the validity of what she believed, the belief itself that allows you to overcome that sort of agony is a powerful thing, and not one to be set aside so easily.

As for your question, well, I have the same sort of problems with a personal God. Perhaps he doesn't have enough influence over individuals to prevent such a misfortune from occurring; I've been recently forced to come to the conclusion that God, if all loving and all seeing, has only the power to persuade in this plane, and not necessarily conclusively at that. The human soul is a powerful thing, capable of overriding divine and demonic intervention at times. Christians would like to believe that their own is coupled with the power of the holy spirit, but that sadly doesn't stop people from ignoring God completely and going ahead with such villainy.

In any case, I prefer the concept of the impersonal God along eastern lines, but since you're more interested in questioning the God of Christianity/Judaism/Islam (the Abrahamic religions that pretty much share the same deity) I'll let that one slide for now.

Second topic. God and Satan. Lucifer was God's highest ranking angel. His best pupil. His right hand man. All the things that Lucifer did that was considered evil was his job. God told him to do those things. He was following God's orders. Why was he cast aside? Because he thought he could run things better than God. Thats the reason. Thats the excuse. He was sick of doing God's dirty deeds and he was sent for eternity to a place of fire, burning and torture. Now, Lucifer is the poster child for evil. To me it doesn't seem like he is the evil one. God is the one who called for and caused those plagues and ordered the first children to die.

What makes you think that the deeds of Lucifer were following God's orders? I always understood that Lucifer was attempting a rebellion. Furthermore, what evil would there be in heaven for Lucifer to be forced to instigate? In any case, firstly, I believe that a lot of this mythology isn't any more valid than the Davinchi Code in terms of theological events. Secondly, I think that you both have a point and are missing the point. True, the events described by the Jews as "Acts of God" leave a lot to be said for God's character. I mean, any deity with total control that would sacrifice the first-born of an entire civilisation just to have his pet favourites released from imprisonment deserves a second thought before worship. However, Satan is no saint either (heh... seems like a weird context for that use of words, but anyway). Whether it was in his original character or whether free will and reasoning allowed him to consider his own worth, he grew jealous of his master and incited a war in an attempt to claim his throne. The obvious point to spring to mind is that, most likely, the Morning Star's reign would have been if anything even more twisted and flawed as that of the previous posessor. After all, Power Corrupts; Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. If he was within the grip of powerlust before making his move, think of what actual control might have done to him.

But, again, it's all mythology.

Third topic. God's interest. Right before the superbowl Football star Terrell Owens said about his fast recovery from a severe ankle sprain. "God was with me and helped me heal" This is the same week we had tidal waves in India. So what Owens is saying is that god cares more about the outcome of a football game than the title waves killing thousands of people. Yeah God is great I tell you.

Heh... I don't care much for American Football. But anyway, sticking with the theme of the Persuasive God, it's very easy to see how regardless of how much he cares, the "almighty" is in fact powerless to prevent tidal waves which occur completely outside of human causality, wheras his influence can act as a partial placebo effect to those recovering from injury or illness. Plus, I think you'll find that in response to events like the Tsunami and the aftershocks/tidal waves that followed it, the Persuasive God's actions can be clearly seen through the masses of public support, donations, gifts and actual aid sent by the people of the world, and in the community spirit of assistance that's helping people get things back together again. It's not that he doesn't care; it's just that there was nothing he could have done preceeding it, and he's trying his best to make up for it in the aftermath.

Anyone who says "God Works in Mysterious Ways", by the way, is being both incredibly patronising (obviously) and defensive; it's their way of saying "I don't know, but I'll put my beliefs forward as a shield". *Shrug*

Fourth topic. Awarding God. God did not help you get that award. So god was with you and noone else. the other people in the competition didn't have gods help. How selfish can one person be. Often times God is mentioned before family in aceptance speeches.

Again, God works through persuasion. The one who wins is the one who won; that's all there is to that. What God may sometimes do is inspire people while training to put the effort into their game in the understanding that it's personal embetterment. Sometimes, those who win may find that their success was due to the work they put in which was in part encouraged by God, in which case they'll thank him for his support. He doesn't play favourites; he helps out all of them in the same way. It's just that some will naturally succeed. *Shrug, again*

Fifth topic. Praying. If two teams pray before a game how does god decide who wins? Is he playing favorites?

Same response as above, really; whichever one is better tends to win, but sometimes they don't due to other, unforseen circumstances, such as morale, set pieces or strategy. The impact of God is in the minds of the believers, not necessarily the body they run onto the pitch with.

Sixth topic. Aliens versus god. As my favorite comedian stated. "Why is it that there is more evidence that aliens exist than there is of god. Yet if believe in aliens you are crazy but if you believe in god you are on the right path?"

It's foolish to discount either theory completely. In a universe this large, there's every possibility that life exists elsewhere. Similarly, there's a possibility that God exists. Neither have yet been proven or disproven, and you're entitled to accept them to varying degrees.

As for the crazy/enlightened problem, there's a fine line between insanity and genius. People tend to comment on the beliefs of others based on their own; just because you receive some criticism for it, I wouldn't take it personally. Simply look at their reasoning and judge for yourself whether your beliefs need a little fine tuning.


Of course, given that I'm not a true Christian, my answers probably mean little. They make sense, though. Maybe. >_>

[QUOTE]Second topic. God and Satan. Lucifer was God's highest ranking angel. His best pupil. His right hand man. All the things that Lucifer did that was considered evil was his job. God told him to do those things. He was following God's orders. Why was he cast aside? Because he thought he could run things better than God. Thats the reason. Thats the excuse. He was sick of doing God's dirty deeds and he was sent for eternity to a place of fire, burning and torture. Now, Lucifer is the poster child for evil. To me it doesn't seem like he is the evil one. God is the one who called for and caused those plagues and ordered the first children to die.


If one attemts to understand everything in the Bible in a strict literal sense it becomes impossible for a person to make sense of or understand and follow. Satan is not a physical creature anymore than is a pink unicorn. Read the following and see if it makes sense.

The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm. The world of nature is defective. Look at it clearly, casting aside all superstition and imagination. If you should leave a man uneducated and barbarous in the wilds of Africa, would there be any doubt about his remaining ignorant? God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77)

[QUOTE]Sixth topic. Aliens versus god. As my favorite comedian stated. "Why is it that there is more evidence that aliens exist than there is of god. Yet if believe in aliens you are crazy but if you believe in god you are on the right path?"

That may be because God is a strictly spritual being and aliens, we think, are physical. But the evidence for their existence is what? So people say they have seem them. Some people claim to have gone up to visit them. Some people have images of them. Sounds like the kinds of proof that some people riducule Christians and people of Faith for.