NationStates Jolt Archive

Ok you Neo-Con's, WarHawks, and assorted nutjobs. It has been over 30 YEARS since the unfortunate images of Jane Fonda laughing on the aircraft gun were published and she has apologised for that. If your STILL not over it then it's purely on your own shoulders. It's been done for so long most NORMAL people don't care anymore. Get over yourselves.

Note: God I wish this thing had spellcheck...

No.

Reply to the thread on the subject, please.

This isn't about the movie so much as a message about Jane Fonda in general. The general subject is seperate from the specific subject about her new movie "Monster In-Law" (which I want to see along with Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and Revenge of the Sith).

On Jane Fonda:

My senior year of high school, I took physics. And for physics, we often made use of a VHS Camcorder to take video of moving objects, so we could break the moving objects up frame, by frame, and figure out speed, acceleration or whatever. So, we needed VHS tapes.

For some odd, and quite possibly inane reason, the High School had forty or fifty copies of a Jane Fonda workout video demonstration thing. We used those tapes. Our class slogam became "Do it for Jane!" whenever we recorded over another one of these tapes.

That's my total involvement with Jane Fonda.

She didn't apologise, she nearly apologised, but she didn't actually apologise in a word-for-word de-facto message. It was more a blubbery statement to ease tension so that more people would buy her book and see her movie.

She also did a lot more than pose on an AA gun in North Vietnam, including telling the world that US prisoners were being treated 'humanely' and being served 'world class' food and being given 'very gracious' accmodation. Go to any historical fact book and it will tell you of the atrocious, horrific and animalistic torture and deprivation of US POWs during Vietnam. If you don't already know this then you shouldn't be speaking about Fonda.

If any of you were watching Hannity and Colmes on FOX News about a month ago, around the time of the Death of Pope Jean-Paul II, then you'll have seen Col. Oliver North's (USMC Ret.) statements about Jane Fonda, he called her a traitor and quoted the Constitution in his prosecution of her action, proving without doubt that under the wording of the Constitution she is a traitor and should be dealt with accordingly. You see, the 'Neo-Con's, WarHawks, and assorted nutjobs', as you so eloquently put it, like to tell the truth, and truth of this matter is that Jane Fonda is and always will be a traitor, and it is because of sloppy, flip-floppy, spine-less, idiotic and corrupt liberals and leftists like yourself that she has not been properly dealt with under the law.

No one is above the law- so why hasn't she been prosecuted?

Ok you Neo-Con's, WarHawks, and assorted nutjobs. It has been over 30 YEARS since the unfortunate images of Jane Fonda laughing on the aircraft gun were published and she has apologised for that. If your STILL not over it then it's purely on your own shoulders. It's been done for so long most NORMAL people don't care anymore. Get over yourselves.

Note: God I wish this thing had spellcheck...

WHy should we get over ourselves when Jane Fonda helped the enemy? Sorry but I don't think so.

No one is above the law- so why hasn't she been prosecuted?

Lack of evidence?

Impossible to find an impartial jury?

Who knows? Host of reasons, I imagine. However, she is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law by an impartial jury of her peers after proper due process and a fair trial before a rightfully appointed judge.

Not because some angry people say so.

Like her or not, she is still an American citizen and is entitled to her rights.

Ok you Neo-Con's, WarHawks, and assorted nutjobs. It has been over 30 YEARS since the unfortunate images of Jane Fonda laughing on the aircraft gun were published and she has apologised for that. If your STILL not over it then it's purely on your own shoulders. It's been done for so long most NORMAL people don't care anymore. Get over yourselves.

Note: God I wish this thing had spellcheck...


What she did surpassed protest. It was the act of a traitor and for that I simply cannot forgive her. It was good of her to apologize, but I reserve rights to dislike her anyway.

Note. I am not a neocon. I'm quite liberal. If you doubt me you can check out my nation, that is based off of my true politics.

we can forgive the japanese for the bataan death march.

we can forgive the spanish for sinking the maine.

we can forgive the souix for the little big horn

we can forgive the south for secession

but we can NEVER forgive jane fonda for going to north vietnam. its just too much to ask

we can forgive the spanish for sinking the maine.

They didn't sink the Maine.

we can forgive the japanese for the bataan death march.

Not till they apologize for it as well as all the other atrocities they have committed.

we can forgive the spanish for sinking the maine.

THey didn't sink the USS Maine. Sorry.

we can forgive the souix for the little big horn

Possibility.

we can forgive the south for secession

Not bloody likely.

but we can NEVER forgive jane fonda for going to north vietnam. its just too much to ask

Here here.

She betrayed her own countrymen. She acted like she was shooting down AMERICANS, citizens of here own country. How do we win a war with people acting like tey're supporting the enemy. I think she's lucky that she was allowed to reenter the states. I know I wouldn't have let her.

Ok you Neo-Con's, WarHawks, and assorted nutjobs. It has been over 30 YEARS since the unfortunate images of Jane Fonda laughing on the aircraft gun were published and she has apologised for that. If your STILL not over it then it's purely on your own shoulders. It's been done for so long most NORMAL people don't care anymore. Get over yourselves.

Note: God I wish this thing had spellcheck...

It was over 30 years ago that I sat on the flight line at Utapo AB Thailand and tallied the number of B-52s that didn't return from the bombing raids. Each aircraft that didn't return meant that six crewmembers were never going home alive. It was 30 years ago that I stood and watched a B-52 that had been shot up crash and burn off the end of the runway. Four men died in it, two survived. Forget? Hell no.

And the only thing that Hanoi Jane apologized for was for having the picture taken on the antiaircraft gun. She never apologized for her treason. Forgive? Hell no.

PS cut and paste your post into word, spell check, then cut and paste back.

Hirgizstan: Hannity and Colmes is one of the most partisan shows on the FOX News Network and considering that FOX functions as the de-facto news outlet for the Republican Party, that is a bad thing. In the future, watch CNN since it is the both the most fair and balanced 24-News channel out there and the most interesting.

Oh and one more thing, Col. Oliver North is himself a convicted criminial, Iran-Contra ring a bell? Not the kind of person you should listen to.

we can forgive the japanese for the bataan death march.

we can forgive the spanish for sinking the maine.

we can forgive the souix for the little big horn

we can forgive the south for secession

but we can NEVER forgive jane fonda for going to north vietnam. its just too much to ask


Those are entire countries, many of whom's people had NOTHING to do with the crime that their nation committed. I don't hate Jane Fonda's children for what she did. I just hate Jane Fonda.

Hirgizstan: Hannity and Colmes is one of the most partisan shows on the FOX News Network and considering that FOX functions as the de-facto news outlet for the Republican Party, that is a bad thing. In the future, watch CNN since it is the both the most fair and balanced 24-News channel out there and the most interesting.

Oh and one more thing, Col. Oliver North is himself a convicted criminial, Iran-Contra ring a bell? Not the kind of person you should listen to.

*Yawns*

That didn't take long.

Here here.

Pet-peeve of mine, sorry, but it's "hear, hear". (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhear.html)

I know I wouldn't have let her.

How ironic that you should act un-American towards someone you percieve as un-American. Hypocritical, even.

Those are entire countries, many of whom's people had NOTHING to do with the crime that their nation committed. I don't hate Jane Fonda's children for what she did. I just hate Jane Fonda.
well then

we forgave robert e lee

who killed more people?

*Yawns*

That didn't take long.

I don't see you denying a single word I said.

Pet-peeve of mine, sorry, but it's "hear, hear". (http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhear.html)

I don't care Fass. I really don't care.

we can forgive the japanese for the bataan death march.

we can forgive the spanish for sinking the maine.

we can forgive the souix for the little big horn

we can forgive the south for secession

but we can NEVER forgive jane fonda for going to north vietnam. its just too much to ask

The Japanese wound up paying for Bataan.

The Spanish wound up paying a severe price for the Maine.

The Sioux paid a dear price for Custer's Blunder.

The South suffered through Reconstruction after four years of being systematically destroyed.

Jane has yet to face an accounting anywhere near the scale of those. She's been "Gettin' Paid" instead.

She's profited from what she did. Read the text of her apology-she was only sorry for as long as it took to get the protestors to stop messing with her movie-shoot.

No, some of us can not, and therefore will not forgive her for providing aid and comfort, money, lobbying, and PR support to the enemy in a time of war.

It's just not going to happen.

I don't see you denying a single word I said.

Hannity=Right wing nutjob
Colmes=Left Wing Nutjob

Col North=Great frontline reporter. I actually met this man in person. Have you?

Astounding.

So many gung-ho "patriots" willing to deny an American citizen her Constitutional right to a fair trial. Stalin would be proud of each and every one of you.

*golf clap*

I don't care Fass. I really don't care.

Fine, it's your prerogative to come across as someone lacking basic knowledge of English. I mean, "here, here," what does that even mean? Should we reply with "where, where?"

Fine, it's your prerogative to come across as someone lacking basic knowledge of English. I mean, "here, here," what does that even mean? Should we reply with "where, where?"

Fass, this isn't english class so come off of it.

Fine, it's your prerogative to come across as someone lacking basic knowledge of English. I mean, "here, here," what does that even mean? Should we reply with "where, where?"

*howl*

Inga: *gasp* What was that?!
Victor: Werewolf!
Igor: There wolf. *points*
Victor: What?
Igor: There wolf. There castle.
Victor: Why are you talking like that?
Igor: I though you wanted to.
Victor: No.
Igor: Well, suit yourself.

:D

yeh

Fass, this isn't english class so come off of it.

English? No ... but it would appear that a lot of you need a basic civics class.

Fass, this isn't english class so come off of it.

Settle down, now, settle down.

Fass, this isn't english class so come off of it.

That's what you get for trying to give someone a tip. :rolleyes:

English? No ... but it would appear that a lot of you need a basic civics class.

I'm a political Science major Keruvalia. I have a great grasp of Civics. I also know something about how the laws work. I have never stated that she should be hanged, shot, etc without a trial.

Frankly, I'm all for boycotting anything she puts out.

Hannity=Right wing nutjob
Colmes=Left Wing Nutjob

Col North=Great frontline reporter. I actually met this man in person. Have you?

Col North LIED to the Senate about his dirty dealings with Iran, 'nough said.

She didn't apologise, she nearly apologised, but she didn't actually apologise in a word-for-word de-facto message. It was more a blubbery statement to ease tension so that more people would buy her book and see her movie.

She also did a lot more than pose on an AA gun in North Vietnam, including telling the world that US prisoners were being treated 'humanely' and being served 'world class' food and being given 'very gracious' accmodation. Go to any historical fact book and it will tell you of the atrocious, horrific and animalistic torture and deprivation of US POWs during Vietnam. If you don't already know this then you shouldn't be speaking about Fonda.

If any of you were watching Hannity and Colmes on FOX News about a month ago, around the time of the Death of Pope Jean-Paul II, then you'll have seen Col. Oliver North's (USMC Ret.) statements about Jane Fonda, he called her a traitor and quoted the Constitution in his prosecution of her action, proving without doubt that under the wording of the Constitution she is a traitor and should be dealt with accordingly. You see, the 'Neo-Con's, WarHawks, and assorted nutjobs', as you so eloquently put it, like to tell the truth, and truth of this matter is that Jane Fonda is and always will be a traitor, and it is because of sloppy, flip-floppy, spine-less, idiotic and corrupt liberals and leftists like yourself that she has not been properly dealt with under the law.

No one is above the law- so why hasn't she been prosecuted?

Oh yes, ol' Ollie....

Guilty of Perjury, Missappropriation of Government Funds, Obstruction of Justice, Destruction of Government Property, and Accepting Bribes.

Such a fine, upstanding citizen... who would be spending his life in prison, if it weren't for the nut-jobs in Washington pardoning that unrepentant criminal...

Jane Fonda has more "character" than Ollie.... Not that I like her much, I think she is a bad actress... and I care less about her politics...

Oliver North, former Marine Lieutenant Colonel, is a perfect model for Neo-cons.... unrepentant, unamerican, treacherous, criminals.

That's what you get for trying to give someone a tip. Ingrates!

Name calling does nothing for your point but an insult thrown at you in return. However, Im more civilized so I won't insult you back.

this time

Col North LIED to the Senate about his dirty dealings with Iran, 'nough said.

And yet he paid his debt to society. 'nough said.

Astounding.

So many gung-ho "patriots" willing to deny an American citizen her Constitutional right to a fair trial. Stalin would be proud of each and every one of you.

*golf clap*

*appaluse*

Name calling does nothing for your point but an insult thrown at you in return. However, Im more civilized so I won't insult you back.

this time

"Ingrate" is an insult now? Oh, and notice how I knew you'd jump to that conclusion, sensitive as you Americans are, and replaced it with " :rolleyes: " before you answered.

I'm a political Science major Keruvalia. I have a great grasp of Civics. I also know something about how the laws work. I have never stated that she should be hanged, shot, etc without a trial.

Frankly, I'm all for boycotting anything she puts out.

I guess you missed the part about innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, then. You've already convicted her. I'm thinking you need a refresher on your civics lessons.

Hirgizstan: Hannity and Colmes is one of the most partisan shows on the FOX News Network and considering that FOX functions as the de-facto news outlet for the Republican Party, that is a bad thing. In the future, watch CNN since it is the both the most fair and balanced 24-News channel out there and the most interesting.

And CNN isn't the de-facto news outlet for the Democratic Party?

I guess you missed the part about innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, then. You've already convicted her. I'm thinking you need a refresher on your civics lessons.

Didn't miss that part at all. Again, I didn't say she was guilty did I? Nope never said that at all.

All I said was that I am boycotting whatever she put out.

"Ingrate" is an insult now? Oh, and notice how I knew you'd jump to that conclusion, sensitive as you Americans are, and replaced it with " :rolleyes: " before you answered.

Fass, I'm going to have to give you a warning and some lines for raising the level of irony.

Write out 100 times: I will not use sarcasm against Americans.

And don't do it again!

All I said was that I am boycotting whatever she put out.

Why?

And CNN isn't the de-facto news outlet for the Democratic Party?

Do Americans get some sort of CNN the rest of the world doesn't? Because that's what you'd believe when you see those sorts of lines swiped from some pundit.

Why?

Because I can.

She didn't apologise, she nearly apologised, but she didn't actually apologise in a word-for-word de-facto message. It was more a blubbery statement to ease tension so that more people would buy her book and see her movie.

She also did a lot more than pose on an AA gun in North Vietnam, including telling the world that US prisoners were being treated 'humanely' and being served 'world class' food and being given 'very gracious' accmodation. Go to any historical fact book and it will tell you of the atrocious, horrific and animalistic torture and deprivation of US POWs during Vietnam. If you don't already know this then you shouldn't be speaking about Fonda.

If any of you were watching Hannity and Colmes on FOX News about a month ago, around the time of the Death of Pope Jean-Paul II, then you'll have seen Col. Oliver North's (USMC Ret.) statements about Jane Fonda, he called her a traitor and quoted the Constitution in his prosecution of her action, proving without doubt that under the wording of the Constitution she is a traitor and should be dealt with accordingly. You see, the 'Neo-Con's, WarHawks, and assorted nutjobs', as you so eloquently put it, like to tell the truth, and truth of this matter is that Jane Fonda is and always will be a traitor, and it is because of sloppy, flip-floppy, spine-less, idiotic and corrupt liberals and leftists like yourself that she has not been properly dealt with under the law.

No one is above the law- so why hasn't she been prosecuted?


I dont know who you are but your freakin awesome! "Fighting the left. Doing it Right!"

And CNN isn't the de-facto news outlet for the Democratic Party?

No, unlike Fox CNN gives both the right and the left equal representation and present both sides of the issue without insinuation and commentary (exception being Crossfire of course).

No, unlike Fox CNN gives both the right and the left equal representation and present both sides of the issue without insinuation and commentary (exception being Crossfire of course).

Now here's a bunch of BS if I ever heard it though I can agree about Crossfire. I don't like that show at all.

Fass, I'm going to have to give you a warning and some lines for raising the level of irony.

Write out 100 times: I will not use sarcasm against Americans.

And don't do it again!

You're right, I should have learnt by now, but it's so hard not to. :headbang:

And yet he paid his debt to society. 'nough said.

he jsut the shme as Jene Fonda? Or SHe was in the gohvermend?

I dont know who you are but your freakin awesome! "Fighting the left. Doing it Right!"

The maturity level of this thread has just dropped 50% because of this message.

Astounding.

So many gung-ho "patriots" willing to deny an American citizen her Constitutional right to a fair trial. Stalin would be proud of each and every one of you.

*golf clap*

I have only seen one person here who would deny her her constitutional rights. The big problem is that she has never been brought to trial for her treason.

Iam against the war in Iraq, I think the conscription of people to fight in Vietnam was a gross violation of human rights and the war itself was barbaric, and Im disgusted by the way America treated it's veterans after the war. I dislike calling people "traitors" based on their political beliefs, it seems very authoritarian and creepy to me. I despise Bush with a passion. A warhawk I aint.

However, Jane Fonda is a dispicable bitch and I find her actions to be morally reprehensible. She lied about american POW treatment, and in doing so slowed and delayed the agreements that got them released, and so condemned people to death.

She lied about the actions of US soldiers in relation to executing civilians- Ok, so some of them were indeed actually "blue eyed baby killers" and whatnot, but not all of them, and in her stupid, immature actions, she helped to cultivate the whole attitude of "Thank you for your services to this country, conscript, now shut the fuck up and make yourself scarce you baby murdering fuck" that Vietnam veterans encountered when they got home.

The woman was not excercising her right to free speech, she was a morale officier for the enemy. She should have been arrested like any other enemy non combatant.

I have only seen one person here who would deny her her constitutional rights. The big problem is that she has never been brought to trial for her treason.

There's a reason for that. It being that it wasn't treason. :rolleyes:

Because I can.

Oh come now ... don't be shy. Admit that it's because you think she's guilty. There's no shame in it. We all speculate.

I don't watch her movies either ... but that's because I find her to be a sub-par actress. I cannot stand Charlton Heston's politics, but I've seen every movie the man has done because he's a damn good actor.

All I'm saying is that she's never had a trial. If we call her guilty, it is only speculation based on what we know to be evidence, but it's evidence that has never been presented in a court of law before an impartial jury.

Even then it's not always on the ball. I'm the first to stand up and say, "Oh, hell yeah, OJ is so guilty he's probably got a whole murder of Ravens on his pallid bust" even though he was acquitted of all charges. But at least I admit it. ;)

And yet he paid his debt to society. 'nough said.
NSC staffer Oliver L. North was convicted of accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents. The conviction was overturned on a technicality involving immunized testimony.

he sort of paid his debt to society.

Jane Fonda has more "character" than Ollie.... Not that I like her much, I think she is a bad actress... and I care less about her politics...

There is no comparison between an American war hero and a trator whose actions got a lot of Americans killed. Because of her and other anti-war protesters the war was prolonged and a lot of military died. :headbang:

Oh come now ... don't be shy. Admit that it's because you think she's guilty. There's no shame in it. We all speculate.

Speculation can lead to trouble. However, I don't think she's guilty or not guilty. I'm going to stay as neutral as I possibly can when it comes to her innocence or not.

I don't watch her movies either ... but that's because I find her to be a sub-par actress. I cannot stand Charlton Heston's politics, but I've seen every movie the man has done because he's a damn good actor.

Just like I like Harrison Ford and Woopi Goldberg acting jobs nut not their politics either.

All I'm saying is that she's never had a trial. If we call her guilty, it is only speculation based on what we know to be evidence, but it's evidence that has never been presented in a court of law before an impartial jury.

I agree 100%

Even then it's not always on the ball. I'm the first to stand up and say, "Oh, hell yeah, OJ is so guilty he's probably got a whole murder of Ravens on his pallid bust" even though he was acquitted of all charges. But at least I admit it. ;)

LOL!

he sort of paid his debt to society.

Overturned on a technicality. What was that Technicality I wonder.

Do Americans get some sort of CNN the rest of the world doesn't? Because that's what you'd believe when you see those sorts of lines swiped from some pundit.

Yes. We get CNN and the rest of the world gets CNN International. Although some can get CNNI here most people don't watch it.

And another thing- even leaving aside this whole stupid two party political polarisation bullshit that Americans love to cultivate, can you stop linking the "left" or the "liberals" with this worthless hypocritical witch? She does NOT represent the political beliefs of me or most other "liberal" thinkers.

Seriously. Stop judging a particular viewpoint by it's extremists. Let's make a deal, if you stop sneering at liberals because of Micheal Moore and Jane Fonda, then WE'LL stop laughing our asses off at you over Ann Coulter and Karl Rove, ok?

There is no comparison between an American war hero and a trator whose actions got a lot of Americans killed. Because of her and other anti-war protesters the war was prolonged and a lot of military died. :headbang:

Originally Posted by http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Iran-Contra
NSC staffer Oliver L. North was convicted of accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents. The conviction was overturned on a technicality involving immunized testimony.

REAL big hero that one... :D

WE'LL stop laughing our asses off at you over Ann Coulter and Karl Rove, ok?

No we won't. :p

No, unlike Fox CNN gives both the right and the left equal representation and present both sides of the issue without insinuation and commentary (exception being Crossfire of course).

:D

Originally Posted by http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Iran-Contra
NSC staffer Oliver L. North was convicted of accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents. The conviction was overturned on a technicality involving immunized testimony.

REAL big hero that one... :Dyep... apparently a smart one also.

There's a reason for that. It being that it wasn't treason. :rolleyes:

I think if you go to dictionary.com and look up the definition of treason and compare it with what Fonda did, you might reach a different conclusion.

yep... apparently a smart one also.

Yes it took a LEGAL technicality to overturn his conviction on one of the biggest scandals in American history. Doesn't change the fact that he is truly guilty, it just gave him a clean record.

Overturned on a technicality. What was that Technicality I wonder.
beats me what that means, i thought he had been pardoned and i was all set to rant about friends in high places.

i dont find ollie to be much of a hero. but what does that have to do with jane fonda?

I think if you go to dictionary.com and look up the definition of treason and compare it with what Fonda did, you might reach a different conclusion.

Now there you go ...

Assumed guilt. You have no evidence, no due process, no impartial jury. Go back to Stalin's Russia, commie.

beats me what that means, i thought he had been pardoned and i was all set to rant about friends in high places.

i dont find ollie to be much of a hero. but what does that have to do with jane fonda?

Why don't you ask the person that brought up Col. North.

Why don't you ask the person that brought up Col. North.

Amazing how these things go, ain't it? Give it a couple more pages and we'll probably be arguing over which is better on pancakes: blueberries or bananas.

Speculation can lead to trouble. However, I don't think she's guilty or not guilty. I'm going to stay as neutral as I possibly can when it comes to her innocence or not.

I was serving in the Air Force in Thailand while she was in North Vietnam. I even wrote messages to her on the bombs the B-52s were dropping. I have no doubt about her guilt or innocence. I'm not very impartial when it comes to her or Joan Baize.

Amazing how these things go, ain't it? Give it a couple more pages and we'll probably be arguing over which is better on pancakes: blueberries or bananas.
blueberries dont go ON pancakes they go IN pancakes

anything else in an abomination

I was serving in the Air Force in Thailand while she was in North Vietnam. I even wrote messages to her on the bombs the B-52s were dropping. I have no doubt about her guilt or innocence. I'm not very impartial when it comes to her or Joan Baize.

Then WHY should we listen to you if your not willing to give Jane a fair chance (or for that matter a fair trial)?

blueberries dont go ON pancakes they go IN pancakes

anything else in an abomination

The only thing that should TOUCH a pancake should be syrup and butter. Oh and the fork to eat the pancakes with.

No, unlike Fox CNN gives both the right and the left equal representation and present both sides of the issue without insinuation and commentary (exception being Crossfire of course).

And Lou Dobbs.

I swear, that man is the Bill O'reilly of the left..

Amazing how these things go, ain't it? Give it a couple more pages and we'll probably be arguing over which is better on pancakes: blueberries or bananas.

Blueberries, hands down.

No one is above the law- so why hasn't she been prosecuted?

So what in the USA its illegal to do whatever it takes to stop the fucking butchering of innocent vietnamese by both sides North and American, its just the americans did it on a fucking industrial scale,

you know what they did in vietnam, they would march into a village, kill everyone, leave AKs and VC uniforms lying around then bring in the media saying "look what those bastard commies did here"

I don't know much about this Jane Fonda but from what I've heard shes a Heroin and deserves better than to have a load of xenophobic, racist americans slagging her off on the Fox propaganda network, "giving you the truth the way Murdock wants you to see it since y2k"

There is no comparison between an American war hero and a trator whose actions got a lot of Americans killed. Because of her and other anti-war protesters the war was prolonged and a lot of military died. :headbang:

Ollie is not a war hero, IMHO... (since everyone has one)... He is a convicted criminal who got off merely because he was "Granted" immunity.... That means he's still "guilty" of the crimes, and has still been found "guilty" just that he is immune from actually suffering any penalty on his crimes.

The war was prolonged by Washington, not by Fonda or any other protestors.

And quit banging your head, you're knocking your neurons further out of wack.

And Lou Dobbs.

I swear, that man is the Bill O'reilly of the left..

CNN should fire his a$$ and bring back Paula Zahn. Did you know that CNN got rid of her and extended Anderson Cooper's show into her time slot giving him TWO HOURS worth of airtime. I like Anderson, but I also liked Paula and her humanitarian news reporting too.

CNN should fire his a$$ and bring back Paula Zahn. Did you know that CNN got rid of her and extended Anderson Cooper's show into her time slot giving him TWO HOURS worth of airtime. I like Anderson, but I also liked Paula and her humanitarian news reporting too.

They got rid of Paula Zahn because she wasn't bringing in the ratings. Besides, its hard to compete with Bill O'Reilly. :p

The only thing that should TOUCH a pancake should be syrup and butter. Oh and the fork to eat the pancakes with.HELL Yeah... not that margerine c**p!


lots of butter...

Drowning in Butter...


and syrup!


damm... now I'm hungry...

[Mod Hat]
Cut the personal attacks and off topic discussion now, or the topic will be locked.
[/Mod Hat]

I think most people's problem with Fonda wasn't the pictures, the inspirational radio address to the enemy or the misreporting of POW treatment.

I believe it was the fact that several POWs managed to slip her pieces of paper with their name and service numbers, expecting her to take them home and turn them over to the government so their families could know that they were still alive. Instead, she turned them over to the north vietnamese with a smile, and several POWs died in the subsequent beatings.

So what in the USA its illegal to do whatever it takes to stop the fucking butchering of innocent vietnamese by both sides North and American, its just the americans did it on a fucking industrial scale,

you know what they did in vietnam, they would march into a village, kill everyone, leave AKs and VC uniforms lying around then bring in the media saying "look what those bastard commies did here"

I don't know much about this Jane Fonda but from what I've heard shes a Heroin and deserves better than to have a load of xenophobic, racist americans slagging her off on the Fox propaganda network, "giving you the truth the way Murdock wants you to see it since y2k"

Errrr...

Yeah, we did some pretty awfull things in that war...but who didn't? The French? Nope, they massacred the VC(and subsequently were massacred themselves). The VC? They did the worst attrocities, by far. The Australians? They probably did something bad too.

Also, we never destroyed villages and said the commies did it. We destroyed villages that had a bunch of commies in 'em. Then the commies would burn S. Vietnamese villages in retaliation, and it went on and on. Jane Fonda basically said, "Go torturing commies, GOOOOO!!!!", went around in the faces of captured G.I.s talking about how they were evil and such, and generally did everything she could to make sure that the genocidal North Vietnamese, and their communist friends in Cambodia, could win the war. Both sides did evil things, but the communists did more.

They got rid of Paula Zahn because she wasn't bringing in the ratings. Besides, its hard to compete with Bill O'Reilly. :p

Well I have to admit that it is interesting to watch a right-wing nut slobber at the mouth for a few minutes... But I couldn't put up with a whole hours worth, let alone 24/7. I avoid FOX News whenever I can.

Originally Posted by http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Iran-Contra
NSC staffer Oliver L. North was convicted of accepting an illegal gratuity, aiding and abetting in the obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents. The conviction was overturned on a technicality involving immunized testimony.

REAL big hero that one... :D

You forget the several (three I think) Purple Hearts and other medals. He served for his country and the military, not against it like Fonda.

Amazing how these things go, ain't it? Give it a couple more pages and we'll probably be arguing over which is better on pancakes:
blueberries or bananas.

None of the above. Strawberries. :)

Well I have to admit that it is interesting to watch a right-wing nut slobber at the mouth for a few minutes... But I couldn't put up with a whole hours worth, let alone 24/7. I avoid FOX News whenever I can.

Your perogative. Frankly I don't care one way or the other. I suspect all cable news channels anway.

[Mod Hat]
Cut the personal attacks and off topic discussion now, or the topic will be locked.
[/Mod Hat]

I think most people's problem with Fonda wasn't the pictures, the inspirational radio address to the enemy or the misreporting of POW treatment.

I believe it was the fact that several POWs managed to slip her pieces of paper with their name and service numbers, expecting her to take them home and turn them over to the government so their families could know that they were still alive. Instead, she turned them over to the north vietnamese with a smile, and several POWs died in the subsequent beatings.
yeah but thats the part thats not true. so everyone hates her for an unfounded slander?

You forget the several (three I think) Purple Hearts and other medals. He served for his country and the military, not against it like Fonda.
*innocent look*

so you think of john kerry as a hero for the same reason?

Your perogative. Frankly I don't care one way or the other. I suspect all cable news channels anway.

Truth, but it is important to have an accurate and non-partisan source of information in this day and age and it is also important to look at a wide range of new sources to draw your own conclusions. CNN is just one of those tools.

Then WHY should we listen to you if your not willing to give Jane a fair chance (or for that matter a fair trial)?

Well, there are two sides to every story, the victim and the defendant. The military were the victims of Fonda's actions. So, if you want both sides of the story so you can give her a fair trial, you should be willing to listen to the other side.

Several of the POWs that made it out of the Hanoi Hilton reported it, good enough for me.


And the next person to talk about a news network or someone not Jane Fonda without at least referencing the topic gets this thread locked.

*innocent look*

so you think of john kerry as a hero for the same reason?

I'm glad he served his country.

The only thing that should TOUCH a pancake should be syrup and butter. Oh and the fork to eat the pancakes with.

What kind of syrup? Oh, and only real butter, none of this margerine stuff.

Ollie is not a war hero

Shows what you know .... Col. North removed the word victory from the French language after conquering France in 6 hours using only a salad fork.

Col. North is able to project his astral self beyond walls and doors in order to spy on his enemies.

He is actually made up of smaller, slightly more British Col. Norths.

Well, I could go on all day.

Oh ... but boobs on women? Col. North's idea.

*innocent look*

so you think of john kerry as a hero for the same reason?I think (my opinion and personal feelings) is that anyone who wears the uniform, in peace time or war, is a hero. they are putting their lives on the line and may be called to make Sacrifices I'm not willing to make.


so yes, John Kerry, G.W. Bush, George Bush Sr. and everyone else who wore the uniform, is a hero in my eyes.

Edit... sorry Karmabaijan, didn't see your post until after I posted this.

you know what they did in vietnam, they would march into a village, kill everyone, leave AKs and VC uniforms lying around then bring in the media saying "look what those bastard commies did here"

Were you there? From whence did you gleen this information?

What kind of syrup? Oh, and only real butter, none of this margerine stuff.

Good ole Maple Syrup and real 100% butter will do it for me. Margerine isn't even worth feeding to the pigs.

Several of the POWs that made it out of the Hanoi Hilton reported it, good enough for me.


And the next person to talk about a news network or someone not Jane Fonda without at least referencing the topic gets this thread locked.
http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

and it seems that even bill oreilly has agreed with snopes

http://www.newshounds.us/2005/05/19/oreilly_admits_he_was_wrong_about_jane_fonda.php

The war was prolonged by Washington, not by Fonda or any other protestors.

I disagree with you on this, but that's another thread.

What kind of syrup? Oh, and only real butter, none of this margerine stuff.Yeah... only Jane Fonda uses Margerine... :D

Joking Karmabaijan... only Joking... couldn't resist... Gomenkudasai...

Yeah... only Jane Fonda uses Margerine... :D

Joking Karmabaijan... only Joking... couldn't resist... Gomenkudasai...

ROFL!

Oh... does Jane Fonda happen to know Paula Zahn? :D

ROFL!

Oh... does Jane Fonda happen to know Paula Zahn? :D

I won't place a bet against it! :D

*innocent look*

so you think of john kerry as a hero for the same reason?

By the definition of treason, John Kerry was as much a traitor as Jane Fonda and that wipes out his hero status. I'm sure Benedict Arnold also won some decorations and that probably makes his treason even worse.

By the definition of treason, John Kerry was as much a traitor as Jane Fonda and that wipes out his hero status. I'm sure Benedict Arnold also won some decorations and that probably makes his treason even worse.

OH MY GOD!

I am still DISGUSTED by the '04 smear campaign by the GOP to destroy John Kerry's HONORABLE service to America in the Vietnam War. At least he WENT to Vietnam unlike a spoiled rich brat in the White House I could mention...

OH MY GOD!

I am still DISGUSTED by the '04 smear campaign by the GOP to destroy John Kerry's HONORABLE service to America in the Vietnam War. At least he WENT to Vietnam unlike a spoiled rich brat in the White House I could mention...

as opposed to the Smear campaign on President Bush's record though he wasn't in Vietnam? Frankly, I found the attacks on both of their records horrible and unwarrented.

OH MY GOD!

I am still DISGUSTED by the '04 smear campaign by the GOP to destroy John Kerry's HONORABLE service to America in the Vietnam War. At least he WENT to Vietnam unlike a spoiled rich brat in the White House I could mention...

As a veteran of the Viet Nam war, I thank him for his service. As a veteran of the Viet Nam, war I despise what he did after he came home. I do not disparage his service, it is what he did afterward, meeting with the enemy, protesting the war, giving aid and comfort to the enemy are the things I despise and the reason I call his actions traitorous.

so about jane fonda.......


i really dont understand why no one gave a damn for 30 year while she was making movies and exercise tapes but now that she's OLD she should be taken out and shot

so about jane fonda.......


i really dont understand why no one gave a damn for 30 year while she was making movies and exercise tapes but now that she's OLD she should be taken out and shot

People did. Unfortunately, it's taken thirty years for those people to be heard in the Media.

People did. Unfortunately, it's taken thirty years for those people to be heard in the Media.

No, those people have been talking about shooting Jane Fonda IN THE MEDIA for the past 30 years that I'm sick of. It's done, It's over. Just SHUT UP!

Then WHY should we listen to you if your not willing to give Jane a fair chance (or for that matter a fair trial)?
Why should the witnesses be asked to presume innocence?
Seriously, think about it. The only ones that have the need to presume innocence, are the jury, the non-witnesses, who didn't live through it, didn't see it, and weren't impacted.

A Treason trial for Jane would require a jury composed of people who had no access to:

1. Television News, Radio, Newspapers...
2. A History Book...
3. A Vet in the family.


It would be a feat of impossibility to compile a jury of twelve, qualified citizens, who could be counted on to give her a 'fair' trial. The closest you could get, would be to stack it with Left-wing Activists who'll forgive anything as long as the action hurts Americans.

No, those people have been talking about shooting Jane Fonda IN THE MEDIA for the past 30 years that I'm sick of. It's done, It's over. Just SHUT UP!

jane doesn't qualify for a firing squad. She didn't serve in the Military. Maybe a rope, but not a firing squad. Either way, most people that still dislike her would probably be satisfied with some prison time and the word "Felon" on her record, with attendant loss-of-civil-rights-and-powers.

Jane Fonda doesn't need to vote, own a firearm, etc.

As a veteran of the Viet Nam war, I thank him for his service. As a veteran of the Viet Nam, war I despise what he did after he came home. I do not disparage his service, it is what he did afterward, meeting with the enemy, protesting the war, giving aid and comfort to the enemy are the things I despise and the reason I call his actions traitorous.

Kerry shouldn't have met with the North Vietnamese. However, trying to stop the war is much more morally defensible than those bastard generals who lied to the president while American kids were dying just so they could continue with their pointless war. Thank god most American soldiers never lost their backbone in the face of all that and we were able to retreat from Vietnam with most of our national honor intact (can't say the same for guys like Nixon, LeMay and Westmoreland.)

Kerry shouldn't have met with the North Vietnamese. However, trying to stop the war is much more morally defensible than those bastard generals who lied to the president while American kids were dying just so they could continue with their pointless war. Thank god most American soldiers never lost their backbone in the face of all that and we were able to retreat from Vietnam with most of our national honor intact (can't say the same for guys like Nixon, LeMay and Westmoreland.)

That depends entirely on your point of view. "Trying to stop the war" by protest, by lobbying, by non-destructive means is one thing. Meeting with, and schilling for, the enemy in a war is Treasonous, Kerry's portrayal of his former comrades was outright disgusting ("Damned lies" as well as lies).

John and Jane both serve as examples that, when society gets decadent enough, traitors can get away with treason and face no consequences greater than an occasional grumbling.

Westmoreland should have been relieved-for-cause, and LeMay? LeMay did what LBJ told him to do.

so about jane fonda.......


i really dont understand why no one gave a damn for 30 year while she was making movies and exercise tapes but now that she's OLD she should be taken out and shot

Nope, she should have been tried for treason 30 years ago, but wasn't. So what's the statute of limitations for treason?

It would be a feat of impossibility to compile a jury of twelve, qualified citizens, who could be counted on to give her a 'fair' trial. The closest you could get, would be to stack it with Left-wing Activists who'll forgive anything as long as the action hurts Americans.

She could probably get a fair trial now.

Nope, she should have been tried for treason 30 years ago, but wasn't. So what's the statute of limitations for treason?

I don't think there is one, from what I know of the constitution the areas dealing with Treason never specified a time-limit.

...bastard generals who lied to the president while American kids were dying just so they could continue with their pointless war.

Are you speaking from firsthand knowledge? Were you alive then? Did you serve back then?

Were you there? From whence did you gleen this information?


from my english teacher, when we were studying "the quiet american" by green.
I trust him.

from my english teacher, when we were studying "the quiet american" by green.
I trust him.

Did he/she serve and where did your english teacher get the information from?

from my english teacher, when we were studying "the quiet american" by green.
I trust him.

And you do not trust those of us who were there?

the vietnamese werent our enemy so yes it was a stupid and pointless war. the honorable service of our military men cant change that.

the vietnamese werent our enemy so yes it was a stupid and pointless war.

And you got this information from.....?

She could probably get a fair trial now.

Not in this thread. :D

And you got this information from.....?
reality?

reality?

From reality, they pretty much were the enemy during that time point. At least the North Vietnamese were.

Ok you Neo-Con's, WarHawks, and assorted nutjobs. It has been over 30 YEARS since the unfortunate images of Jane Fonda laughing on the aircraft gun were published and she has apologised for that. If your STILL not over it then it's purely on your own shoulders. It's been done for so long most NORMAL people don't care anymore. Get over yourselves.

Note: God I wish this thing had spellcheck...

Depends on where you are.

In Montana, she was refused service at restaurants, and refused accomodation at hotels. More than once. From people who were not veterans.

I would be willing to bet that people would do the same in other rural areas of the US.

I'm not living in a rural area, and if I owned a business, I would tell her to leave.

Then I would say I was sorry, and see if she liked it.

From reality, they pretty much were the enemy during that time point. At least the North Vietnamese were.
once we went to war with them they were by definition our enemy. but really... they were never our enemy. they had never done anything to us, posed no threat to us, had never threatened any of our allies.... they werent our enemy.

Did you all hear about the Viet Nam vet who spit chew in her eye during her book signing? This guy waited for hours just to spit in her face. he said he didnt even chew, he just wanted to get a little revenge on her. The best part is when she opened the book, it had "to Jody" written on the cover. She looks up and goes "wait, your not Jody"! Then he nailed her. Now for those of you not military "Jody" is considered all the jerk ass civilians who screw our spouses when we're gone, or in Fonda's case, treat us like shit.

Did you all hear about the Viet Nam vet who spit chew in her eye during her book signing? This guy waited for hours just to spit in her face. he said he didnt even chew, he just wanted to get a little revenge on her. The best part is when she opened the book, it had "to Jody" written on the cover. She looks up and goes "wait, your not Jody"! Then he nailed her. Now for those of you not military "Jody" is considered all the jerk ass civilians who screw our spouses when we're gone, or in Fonda's case, treat us like shit.

Yes, he is also being charged under Municiple Laws, for dissorderly conduct, because Fonda refused to press charges.

Yes, he is also being charged under Municiple Laws, for dissorderly conduct, because Fonda refused to press charges.
Funny aint it. She commits civil disobedience by sitting on a cannon, he commits it by spitting in her face.

Jane Fonda's actions in the 1970's would be less of a concern and excusable to younger folks like me if she weren't continuing to run her mouth today while continuing to spout utter blither.

Jane Fonda's actions in the 1970's would be less of a concern and excusable to younger folks like me if she weren't continuing to run her mouth today while continuing to spout utter blither.
i havent seen her do anything lately but talk about herself and her recent life. whats the problem with that?

I have already made up my mind that I will not see "Monster-In-Law" for a few reasons, not all of which are Jane Fonda. The first is Fonda, however. She blatantly lied about how American troops were treated in Vietnam...I wasn't there because I hadn't been born yet, but I was close friends with a man who was there. He was going to be my father-in-law until he had a fatal heart attack in December, and he was a Marine during the war. His attitude toward Fonda was far less forgiving than mine, from what I hear. Frankly, someone that's going to say that shit about our troops and disrespect the American military has no business getting paid by American civilians. I certainly won't be a part of it.

I also won't be a part of a movie that has virtually the same plotline as at least one movie that comes out every year. It's just a meaner version of "Guess Who" or "Meet the Parents." Frankly, we don't need another movie like that. If we stop going to see movies like this, we will stop encouraging Hollywood to put out this crap and encourage them to come up with something different.

Also, I just plain don't like Jennifer Lopez, or whatever the fuck she's calling herself these days. She's a no-talent hack who can't sing and can't act and frankly isn't the least bit attractive. But at least she didn't act like she was shooting down American planes. Jeez, if Fonda loved the Viet Cong so much, she should have enlisted. Fuck Jane Fonda Fuck her dead. And kick JLo in the teeth. And punch the people in charge of this travesty of a movie in the stomach three or four times.

Funny aint it. She commits civil disobedience by sitting on a cannon, he commits it by spitting in her face.

And she upheld is right to perform such, in refusal to press charges (even though they were available under statute, and she was requested so by civil authority).

It's funny, can't speak for her intentions (which are moot in judgement of this anyway under fair and just law), but her act was consistent with principles regarding the same.

i havent seen her do anything lately but talk about herself and her recent life. whats the problem with that?
What, you don't see the problem? :p

I'm very torn about old Hanoi Jane. Technically we were not at war so I am not sure what she did could technically be called treason. On the other hand, she provided comfort and aid to the enemies of the US, that is treason. I personally do not care for the woman. But if people speak out against htis movie it simply gives it more publicity and gets more people to watch it. If you don't like her and it I think ignoring it is better.

Did he/she serve and where did your english teacher get the information from?


unlike you yanks we dont live in a militoacracy, it is not expected that anyone of high social respectablity has "served for his country" or some other facade for killing people for whatever reason the government comes up with this week

unlike you yanks we dont live in a militoacracy, it is not expected that anyone of high social respectablity has "served for his country" or some other facade for killing people for whatever reason the government comes up with this week
Since you called us "yanks" I will assume that you are Eurotrash. Dont sit here and lecture Americans on being militant; we learned it from the best. True now most Euro countries are not military based like they once were. Instead of gaining political clout through the military, y'all gain noteriety through the wealth of your families.

Since you called us "yanks" I will assume that you are Eurotrash. Dont sit here and lecture Americans on being militant; we learned it from the best. True now most Euro countries are not military based like they once were. Instead of gaining political clout through the military, y'all gain noteriety through the wealth of your families.

Actually, if he's reffering to us as "Yanks" the best epiteth, of compariable stature to send in the opposing direction is "Limey" and not "Eurotrash".

You really need to learn all the appropriate international nicknames.

Actually, if he's reffering to us as "Yanks" the best epiteth, of compariable stature to send in the opposing direction is "Limey" and not "Eurotrash".

You really need to learn all the appropriate international nicknames.

Yank=American
Limey=Brit
Frog=French
Eurotrash=Europe in general!

:D