NationStates Jolt Archive

Is there any particular reason why this is still in effect. The US has trade with China, Vietnam, Russia, etc., why not Cuba? They have not tried to kick the US out of Guantanamo Bay as far as I know, and it doesn't seem like they have been a treat to national security since the Cuban Missle Crisis, which was mainly the USSR's doing anyway. To me, it seems the the US is continuing this out of spite.

Mostly to please the exiles in Miami. Whenever there are talks of lifting or softening the embargo, they get all their knickers in a knot and threaten not to vote for Republicans in Florida.

Most other people in the US couldn't care and even see the benefits of having it lifted.

Capitalist America is opposed to Communism. As long as Cuba remains a communist state, the US is going to continue this embargo.

When a man survives over 1,000 assassination attempts you have to take it personally as an insult.

I belive the US will lift the embargo after Fidel Castro. If they do it now, cubans will take it as a victory over imperialism. I also belive it would be a victory.

Capitalist America is opposed to Communism. As long as Cuba remains a communist state, the US is going to continue this embargo.

Yep. Don't forget about our government, which is full of heartless bastards who couldn't care less if Cuba runs completely into the ground.

I'm opposed to embargos that are in place just because a state is Communist.

I belive the US will lift the embargo after Fidel Castro. If they do it now, cubans will take it as a victory over imperialism. I also belive it would be a victory.
Well, when Fidel is gone, Raul is going to take power. They're (Fidel and Raul Castro) pretty similar so if the US does decide to lift the embargo - it was obviously personal.

There IS no real reason for the continued existance of the embargo. The cold war is over. It is "personal" because as soon as Castro is gone, relations will likely resume between the US and Cuba.

The embargoes exist because Castro is the most evil dictator that has ever lived, rivalled only by Stalin and Hitler in his monstrous treatment of the Cuban people. Until this vile cult of personality is destroyed, the Cuban people will never be free. Castro apologists like Silvio Rodriguez are just brainwashed automatons who sing the party line and make it sound like critical anlysis. Down with Castro! Up with the embargo!

:eek:

Wants a free and democratic Cuba first,
1. Release all political prisoners inside Cuba not exile.
2. Allow the cuban people to vote in free democratic elections, with diffrent political partys and economic, political and social views.
3. Allow the cuban people economic freedoms.
4. Allow the cuban people social freedoms.
5. Allow the cuban people political freedoms.
6. Dismantle all the neighboorhood commitees for the defence of the revolution that report them to the police
if they dont agree with the government on any government policy.
7. Allow them to use the internet freely like we enjoy
here on NS, In Cuba there is no forum like NS allowed
where we can discuss, debate, and argue our diffrent economic, political and social views.

6
The same ones we all have in our nations of origin of NS
.

:eek:
:D

Yep. Don't forget about our government, which is full of heartless bastards who couldn't care less if Cuba runs completely into the ground.

I'm opposed to embargos that are in place just because a state is Communist.

I'm not... communism must die. That said, I don't think that's why the embargo continues.

Cuba is on the State Department's roster of nations who sponsor terrorism. Maybe that's part of it.

Capitalist America is opposed to Communism. As long as Cuba remains a communist state, the US is going to continue this embargo.

If it wasn't for the U.S., Castro would never have come to power. Read The Fourth Floor, by Earl E.T. Smith, the last U.S. ambassador to Cuba.

Old Havana, what is your view on the Posadas Carriles issue?

The embargoes exist because Castro is the most evil dictator that has ever lived, rivalled only by Stalin and Hitler in his monstrous treatment of the Cuban people. Until this vile cult of personality is destroyed, the Cuban people will never be free. Castro apologists like Silvio Rodriguez are just brainwashed automatons who sing the party line and make it sound like critical anlysis. Down with Castro! Up with the embargo!
For some reason, that sounded like sarcasm. Is it?

Well, when Fidel is gone, Raul is going to take power. They're (Fidel and Raul Castro) pretty similar so if the US does decide to lift the embargo - it was obviously personal.


At least Cuba (those communists bastards right?) don't have much, but they share it like a community would. You get rations every week, you get free health care, but the embargo by the largest state in the world does wear down your economy.

Capitalists can't stand communism because it represents a completely different ideology, and one that only allows the state (and those who run it) to be corrupt and exploit it. Under the Capitalist model, there are lots of big wigs who get to live like Gods. Not just a few friends of your Czar.

Unfortunately Communism fell to corruption. I only wish the USSR gets reformed under a new communism manifesto which would take out much of the corruption.

Conviently however, Capitalism is falling to corruption. How many "bad eggs" before we realize that these Corporate bugger just would like us soul-dead and member of their indoctrination?

Capitalism fights communism because communism (Socialist movements where business is regulated and people are more in charge of the governments) works and the US doesn't not want that. Europe is almost entirely made up of those type of countries... Now the US only deals with Britian because of the big wig power pact they made a few years back. Ronny Regan said to Margaret Thatcher, "you destroy your labour protections like Unions and we will do the same, and then we will invest with each other and get together every now and then to bomb brown people until we get our "New World Order" idea on the map with GWB"... ;P

Embrace Democracy, embrace social charity and life a better life than working amongst a mass of people who just want to buy sell or rent you. I have more emotions to share with other human beings.

Like compassion, like sympathy, like nuturing. My GOVERNMENT does that aswell. And I HELP my government. Of course, if you live in the US, trying to say that actually is illegal under article 97c of the Patriot Act II - The phrase, "Life Liberty and the pursuit of happiness" has now been changed to "You have no right to life (As we stole over 1000 children in Florida alone) your have the privilage of liberties we allow you to have, and you have the right to pursue happiness, but only if it's privatized. This is Gods country, trespassers will be shot on sight."

Sorry to hear about your country yanks. If it was Nazi Germany I would feel safer. I mean, I'm not a jew, or a homosexual, so I won't be shipped off to a concerntration camp... But I am a liberal, which means, in the US now, I could get shipped off to an internment camp, if I failed to be indoctrinated into the Capitalist culture. But I can't, because I'm not a thief, or a polluter, or a bigot... Oh, and I don't like lying to myself.

The embargoes exist because Castro is the most evil dictator that has ever lived, rivalled only by Stalin and Hitler in his monstrous treatment of the Cuban people. Until this vile cult of personality is destroyed, the Cuban people will never be free. Castro apologists like Silvio Rodriguez are just brainwashed automatons who sing the party line and make it sound like critical anlysis. Down with Castro! Up with the embargo!


Are you forgetting about the former dictator of Romania? What about Pol Pot?

What we really should be doing is banning all subversive Cuban music...the Buena Vista Social Club? Who the hell let them get so popular? They sing things like, "No quiero, que sepan mis penas...porque, si me ven llorando, morira..." loosely translated to mean, "I don't want the Miami Cubans to know how much I suffer because they have abandoned us and call us mean names, because if they ever saw me crying, they'd die with laughter and make the embargoes even worse!"

For some reason, that sounded like sarcasm. Is it?
Moi? Sarcastic? Mais non! Jamais!

Are you forgetting about the former dictator of Romania? What about Pol Pot?
Ha! Schoolboys compared to Castro. He's much more subtle in his use of terror...and he tried to spread communism all through Latin America, which would have upset the traditional balance between the rich and poor. We would have had reds knocking at our door from Mexico, flowing up from Guatemala and Chile...not to mention all the damn commies who'd have taken over Barbados and ruined a wonderful tax haven for the Brits...

He still plans to spread his communistic filth, and he must be contained.

Old Havana, what is your view on the Posadas Carriles issue?
Well the question is if he's a freedom fighter or a terrorist. I say he's a terrorist.

For some reason, that sounded like sarcasm. Is it?


It would have to be... I mean, when the US Embassy in Havana put up it's big 72 Year Plaque to commemorate it's embargo or something like that, directly across from that, the citizen drew swastikas and said something like "Nazi's get out". I think it says what the Cubans really feel.

What we really should be doing is banning all subversive Cuban music...the Buena Vista Social Club? Who the hell let them get so popular? They sing things like, "No quiero, que sepan mis penas...porque, si me ven llorando, morira..." loosely translated to mean, "I don't want the Miami Cubans to know how much I suffer because they have abandoned us and call us mean names, because if they ever saw me crying, they'd die with laughter and make the embargoes even worse!"


Sounds like a good thing to say. Obviously someone feels strongly enough to write a song about it. Singing brought down apartheid, maybe it will bring down the other colonial racist regiem...

He still plans to spread his communistic filth, and he must be contained.

That part is true. He is one of the world's greatest supporters of terrorism. He supported it in Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Angola, to name just a few places.

It would have to be... I mean, when the US Embassy in Havana put up it's big 72 Year Plaque to commemorate it's embargo or something like that, directly across from that, the citizen drew swastikas and said something like "Nazi's get out". I think it says what the Cubans really feel.
Real Cubans hate Castro and his stupid, oversized cigars. Fake ones love him like some sort of pagan deity. But those kinds of Cubans also believe in Los Orishas, those disgusting African gods...that kind of mentality allows Communism to flourish.

Ha! Schoolboys compared to Castro. He's much more subtle in his use of terror...and he tried to spread communism all through Latin America, which would have upset the traditional balance between the rich and poor. We would have had reds knocking at our door from Mexico, flowing up from Guatemala and Chile...not to mention all the damn commies who'd have taken over Barbados and ruined a wonderful tax haven for the Brits...

He still plans to spread his communistic filth, and he must be contained.

:)

The embargo should end simply because it isn't that effective a policy. Now when Cuba couldn't trade with Europe or any other US Ally, and was completely dependent on Soviet assistance it actually was fairly worthwhile, as it caused the Soviets to spend billions to prop Cuba up, and prevent Cuba from causing any effective trouble elsewhere easily.

To pay for all that Soviet help, the Cubans sent troops to Africa for a decade, and did other various surrogate duties for the Soviets. A price they paid for in blood.

Now however, Cuba can trade with practically everyone else except the United States. Now the US is the natural trading partner for Cuba, and Cuba is a natural vacation destination etc. But no more so than the rest of the Caribbean. So the embargo hurts the US not at all. But strangling economically an entire people (with another screw being tightened lately with the US policy change severely limiting the money Cuban Americans could send to family members in Cuba being the latest blow) when the utility of that policy is highly questionable doens't make a lot of sense.

We should trade heavily with Cuba. Drown them in American money, goods, tourists, etc. Make it clear that there are better options than a family dictatorship based on a failed idealogy that has failed to bring about dreams the people of Cuba had in 1959. So when Castro dies (and eventually he will, he is an old man after all and his brother isn't much younger) the transitition to democracy will be swifter, and prosperity will come sooner.

A lot of Cuban Americans hate Castro (see posts above for why). They have reason to, but in the end it isn't just about hatred, but what brings peace, prosperity and liberty to Cuba.

Isn't that the whole goal of the economic sanctions and embargo? To bring those things to Cuba?

It would have to be... I mean, when the US Embassy in Havana put up it's big 72 Year Plaque to commemorate it's embargo or something like that, directly across from that, the citizen drew swastikas and said something like "Nazi's get out". I think it says what the Cubans really feel.
I wouldn't put too much faith in those "spontaneous expressions of the people" that happen in Havana from time to time, but still people don't want to go back to being the US's whorehouse.

That part is true. He is one of the world's greatest supporters of terrorism. He supported it in Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Angola, to name just a few places.
Yes. Communism = Terrorism. Castro = Communism = Terrorism. Therefore, Castro represents all that is evil in this world. Him and Osama. Maybe they are distantly related?

Real Cubans hate Castro and his stupid, oversized cigars. Fake ones love him like some sort of pagan deity. But those kinds of Cubans also believe in Los Orishas, those disgusting African gods...that kind of mentality allows Communism to flourish.
I don't dislike him and I certainly don't hate him. I don't love him and praise him but I do like him and admire his strength.

*Thank* you for bringing this up! :)

Cuba is on the State Department's roster of nations who sponsor terrorism. Maybe that's part of it.

Yes, a Republican I know once pointed me to that website. I read through it thoroughly, had a jolly good snigger, and proceded to point out how utterly ridiculous it was, point by point. The guy in question was graceful enough to withdraw all claims that Cuba could possibly be involved with terrorism. He was a Republican, but he was far from stupid.

The simple fact is that Cuba nationalised US industries on the island, and the US has never forgiven it. The US has softened its relations with China and Vietnam, not because those countries have become more democratic, but because they've embraced capitalism. The US government has its priorities, as well as a well-oiled system of blatantly hypocritical propaganda.

There have been several votes at the UN about the embargo on Cuba. Every time, the number of nations demanding that the embargo should end went up. At last count, I believe, only three nations world-wide, US included, still supported the embargo.

I don't dislike him and I certainly don't hate him. I don't love him and praise him but I do like him and admire his strength.
Fake Cuban.

That part is true. He is one of the world's greatest supporters of terrorism. He supported it in Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Angola, to name just a few places.
There's no terrorism in Mexico. Some people put an explosive under a power line and brought down a post, but that was 10 years ago. And there were some firecrackers going off near a bank and a McDonald's, but those were more to protest than to terrorize.

Actually, Castro didn't export his revolution to Mexico back in the 60s and 70s out of friendship with the Mexican government.

Fake Cuban.
Shhh ;)

Yes. Communism = Terrorism. Castro = Communism = Terrorism. Therefore, Castro represents all that is evil in this world. Him and Osama. Maybe they are distantly related?

You don't consider people who cut off womens' breasts, decapitate people, and cut people in half lengthways (while they're still alive) terrorists? Or burning people alive, cutting off mens' genitals and stuffing them in their mouths, shooting toddlers, gouging out eyeballs, and cutting out peoples' hearts while they're still alive?

You don't consider people who cut off womens' breasts, decapitate people, and cut people in half lengthways (while they're still alive) terrorists? Or burning people alive, cutting off mens' genitals and stuffing them in their mouths, shooting toddlers, gouging out eyeballs, and cutting out peoples' hearts while they're still alive?
Um, yes, of course I do...and Castro clearly is for this sort of behaviour. Aren't these things common in Cuba since the revolution? They have also happened in Guatamala, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Honduras....oh wait...damn it...most of these atrocities happend under US-backed, capitalist military dicatorships...perhaps they are a bad example...um...oh yeah! I heard that women in Cuba were having their breasts routinely cut off....oh wait...was that just women who had breast cancer? Shoot...help me out here...

Shhh ;)
Fake cuban.

Um, yes, of course I do...and Castro clearly is for this sort of behaviour. Aren't these things common in Cuba since the revolution? They have also happened in Guatamala, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Honduras....oh wait...damn it...most of these atrocities happend under US-backed, capitalist military dicatorships...perhaps they are a bad example...um...oh yeah! I heard that women in Cuba were having their breasts routinely cut off....oh wait...was that just women who had breast cancer? Shoot...help me out here...

The latter atrocities I mentioned happened in Nicaragua, and were committed by the Cuban-backed Sandinistas, who in one year alone killed as many people as Pinochet killed in 17 years. In their first year of power alone, they imprisoned over 50,000 people for supporting the former government, and also imprisoned virtually the entire Guardia Nacional as well as the Partido Liberal Nacionalista.

As for the "breasts cutting off," that happened in Angola. It was done by Castro's friends, the MPLA.

Um, yes, of course I do...and Castro clearly is for this sort of behaviour. Aren't these things common in Cuba since the revolution? They have also happened in Guatamala, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay, Nicaragua, El Salvador and Honduras....oh wait...damn it...most of these atrocities happend under US-backed, capitalist military dicatorships...perhaps they are a bad example...um...oh yeah! I heard that women in Cuba were having their breasts routinely cut off....oh wait...was that just women who had breast cancer? Shoot...help me out here...

I never said they happened in Cuba, did I?

I never said they happened in Cuba, did I?
No, I did. Now, if you are going to lay personal blame on Castro for the actions of others, I certainly hope you are willing to lay the blame on Kissinger for the actions of his pet dictators....?

No, I did. Now, if you are going to lay personal blame on Castro for the actions of others, I certainly hope you are willing to lay the blame on Kissinger for the actions of his pet dictators....?

I certainly am. Terrorists are terrorists, regardless of which end of the political spectrum they occupy.

As a native cuban, I dont hide my nations,
I am The Republic of La Habana Cuba, The Republic of
Miami Lakes and The Republic of De La Florida and yes
The Republic of Santa- nita. I dont know The Republic of
Old Habana. That last post did seem strange, but he has
his rights like we all have here in the US, Europe, and other places not Cuba.

The latter atrocities I mentioned happened in Nicaragua, and were committed by the Cuban-backed Sandinistas, who in one year alone killed as many people as Pinochet killed in 17 years. In their first year of power alone, they imprisoned over 50,000 people for supporting the former government, and also imprisoned virtually the entire Guardia Nacional as well as the Partido Liberal Nacionalista.

As for the "breasts cutting off," that happened in Angola. It was done by Castro's friends, the MPLA.
If that's your excuse to classify Castro as a terrorist, what do you say about the US government's support of brutal dictatorships in Philippines, Haiti, Brazil, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Indonesia, Cuba, Guatemala, Mexico, and Iraq?

Are the US policies better? Is the US government innocent of abuses committed in previous administrations?

I certainly am. Terrorists are terrorists, regardless of which end of the political spectrum they occupy.
Well, if you get to string up Castro, I get Kissinger *salivates at the very thought...*

Are the US policies better? Is the US government innocent of abuses committed in previous administrations?

Of course not.

Ha! Schoolboys compared to Castro. He's much more subtle in his use of terror...and he tried to spread communism all through Latin America, which would have upset the traditional balance between the rich and poor. We would have had reds knocking at our door from Mexico, flowing up from Guatemala and Chile...not to mention all the damn commies who'd have taken over Barbados and ruined a wonderful tax haven for the Brits...

He still plans to spread his communistic filth, and he must be contained.


Tell them how the US fought against them in Guatemala.... Or Chile?

In the end Bruce Cockburn wrote a song about it called "If I had a Rocket Launcher", watching American troops and hired mercenaries mow down civilians (whole villiages) because they "sympathized" with the communists...

The United Nations was called on behalf of Nicaragua to the security council. Article 240 was boycotted by the US and Israel. World Court order was issued against the US, the only convicted case of international terrorism in the entire world and the us says "It refuses to recognize the authority fo the world court" and subsquently upped the arms shipments and literally drove Nicaragua into the ground.

Some Republican Senators at the time we talking about targeting "Soft Targets". Which is to say "civilians". They said that the operation had to undergo "cost benefit analysis" which is to say "How much death is put through the machine so that democracy is the outcome".

If you stand up for that, you deserved to be beaten with a rubber hose! Capitalism is about as non-democratic and about as close to Fascism as you can get. In the end, we will beat it down.

Havana is spelled habana, I guess that should give it away
if thats the case.

If that's your excuse to classify Castro as a terrorist, what do you say about the US government's support of brutal dictatorships in Philippines, Haiti, Brazil, Paraguay, Chile, Argentina, Indonesia, Cuba, Guatemala, Mexico, and Iraq?

Are the US policies better? Is the US government innocent of abuses committed in previous administrations?

The United States holds economic freedom in a much higher place than social freedom, so they back these brutal regimes. I can't think of many worse things than that.

Yes. Communism = Terrorism. Castro = Communism = Terrorism. Therefore, Castro represents all that is evil in this world. Him and Osama. Maybe they are distantly related?

Funny, those are where the Americans got convicted for warcrimes... Crimes against huamnity are also being cited and a case being built at the ICC.

If you stand up for that, you deserved to be beaten with a rubber hose! Capitalism is about as non-democratic and about as close to Fascism as you can get. In the end, we will beat it down.
Hey, watch it buddy. I'm married to a Chilean, and he knows first hand how Chile was saved from Communism by Pinochet...Allende would have rounded up all the newborns and had them raised in a state-run brainwashing unit so they could all become prancing little cogs in the Unidad Popular machine! You'd have been BEGGING to be beaten with a rubber hose had that disaster not been averted!

Hey, watch it buddy. I'm married to a Chilean, and he knows first hand how Chile was saved from Communism by Pinochet...Allende would have rounded up all the newborns and had them raised in a state-run brainwashing unit so they could all become prancing little cogs in the Unidad Popular machine! You'd have been BEGGING to be beaten with a rubber hose had that disaster not been averted!

Excuse me, but how is Pinochet any better?

Havana is spelled habana, I guess that should give it away
if thats the case.
Yes, yes, everyone knows. I chose the English spelling of it since this is a mostly English-speaking forum...

Excuse me, but how is Pinochet any better?
Is this a trick question? He wasn't a commie! When my husband's uncle was disappeared, tortured and murdered, and his entire family forced to flee into exile, he thanked his lucky stars that at least Allende hadn't been allowed to completely ruin the economy!

*Thank* you for bringing this up! :)



Yes, a Republican I know once pointed me to that website. I read through it thoroughly, had a jolly good snigger, and proceded to point out how utterly ridiculous it was, point by point. The guy in question was graceful enough to withdraw all claims that Cuba could possibly be involved with terrorism. He was a Republican, but he was far from stupid.

The simple fact is that Cuba nationalised US industries on the island, and the US has never forgiven it. The US has softened its relations with China and Vietnam, not because those countries have become more democratic, but because they've embraced capitalism. The US government has its priorities, as well as a well-oiled system of blatantly hypocritical propaganda.

There have been several votes at the UN about the embargo on Cuba. Every time, the number of nations demanding that the embargo should end went up. At last count, I believe, only three nations world-wide, US included, still supported the embargo.

US, obviously, Israel, and Uzbekistan... Which also recently is becoming tied to helping bomb muslims by allowing the US to launch from there. The people are getting shot down for "protesting"... 700 people so far in the last two weeks. Apparently they were saying "down the with US", and were subsequently shot.

The people all over the world are going to feast on the bloated corpse of the US I fear. You can shoot them now, but when they build up enough resentment...

The people all over the world are going to feast on the bloated corpse of the US I fear. You can shoot them now, but when they build up enough resentment...
...we'll give their children good jobs making Levi's, and hand out free admissions to "the Patriot" to soften them up....

Is this a trick question? He wasn't a commie! When my husband's uncle was disappeared, tortured and murdered, and his entire family forced to flee into exile, he thanked his lucky stars that at least Allende hadn't been allowed to completely ruin the economy!

Ah, so it's okay for people to vanish and be murdered, so long as Capitalism is able to flourish? Wondeful way of thinking.

I certainly am. Terrorists are terrorists, regardless of which end of the political spectrum they occupy.


Wow, I totally agree... however, the biggest terrorist netowrks is run from the Pentagon... Going to send the military to attack them? No, why not? Is it because you think it's only terror when it happens to you huh?

The hypocracy is amazing, you have been so indoctrinated I can't even imagine your convoluted american lies. The only government in the last 50 to be convicted of terrorism is "The United States"... Nicaragua appealed to the World Court that you bombed the country back into the stone age... You claimed "making democracy", the world court did not buy it.

They want communism... It has to be better than slaves for a wage, whever you can rent yourself for.... Its pathetic. These people deserved dignity, not to be SHOT!

Ah, so it's okay for people to vanish and be murdered, so long as Capitalism is able to flourish? Wondeful way of thinking.
Finally! You've got it right! His uncle was probably a commie anyway...and now he gets to live in Canada instead of the slums of Santiago...all thanks to Pinochet!

The United States holds economic freedom in a much higher place than social freedom, so they back these brutal regimes. I can't think of many worse things than that.


Economic freedom means "I can buy and sell your citizens to make our reeboks!" At.......... 6c a sneaker

Finally! You've got it right! His uncle was probably a commie anyway...and now he gets to live in Canada instead of the slums of Santiago...all thanks to Pinochet!

Ah, now I get it ;).

Economic freedom means "I can buy and sell your citizens to make our reeboks!" At.......... 6c a sneaker

Yep! And, don't forget about the horrible working conditions! Air conditioners? Pfft, what the hell are those?

wow sinuhue you are on quite a tear today. i sure hope the wicked sarcasm doesnt crash the jolt server!

we have missed you so much!

-snip-

Just so you know, I hate the narco-Nazis who called themselves the Contras just as much as I do the Sandinistas.

Hey, watch it buddy. I'm married to a Chilean, and he knows first hand how Chile was saved from Communism by Pinochet...Allende would have rounded up all the newborns and had them raised in a state-run brainwashing unit so they could all become prancing little cogs in the Unidad Popular machine! You'd have been BEGGING to be beaten with a rubber hose had that disaster not been averted!


*I* am not a Communist. *I* do not stand for Pinochet or even know anything of any signifcance in regards to Chilean oppression, so I am certainly not the person to counter your point.

*I AM* anti-capitalist/anti-corporate. Because I am LIVING in the suffering created by them.

Is this a trick question? He wasn't a commie! When my husband's uncle was disappeared, tortured and murdered, and his entire family forced to flee into exile, he thanked his lucky stars that at least Allende hadn't been allowed to completely ruin the economy!


And then you voted to invoke the Patriot Act 1 and 2 which gives the government the right to monitor everything you say and do, and to cart YOU off in the middle of the night without anyone having to say anything to anyone?

So... We are THANKFUL? Sounds like you traded one dictator for another...

Ah, now I get it ;).
Good...I was getting worried:).

Is this a trick question? He wasn't a commie! When my husband's uncle was disappeared, tortured and murdered, and his entire family forced to flee into exile, he thanked his lucky stars that at least Allende hadn't been allowed to completely ruin the economy!
yes, pinochet has done so much for chile that they should change santiago to sanaugusto

Good...I was getting worried:).

Hehe. I didn't read your other posts, so I had no idea!

*I* am not a Communist. *I* do not stand for Pinochet or even know anything of any signifcance in regards to Chilean oppression, so I am certainly not the person to counter your point.

*I AM* anti-capitalist/anti-corporate. Because I am LIVING in the suffering created by them.

Communism is born (i think) of defeatism... thinking that people are too stupid/lazy to be able to fend for themselves... thinking that those horrible corporations are out to take advantage of Average Joe.

All the while, corporations:

a)Employ (IE, give a job to...)
b)Sell goods and services to (generally at prices commanded by consumers, the millions of Average Joes out there)
c)Provide investment opportunities for...

Average Joe.

Don't hate capitalism... people want to be free to spend their money the way they see fit, and entrepreneurialism is one possible arena into which such money/time/ambition may be placed. If you live in a foreign (foreign to me.. outside the US) land where labor practices and/or pay is bad, don't blame the corporations... blame your government for not passing laws prohibiting such practices. Corporations' #1 responsibility is to their shareholders, and one way to help ensure a good return on investment is to maximize profit... and one way to greatly help profit is to decrease cost. One source of cost is labor.

Of course it is bad to under-pay people or put them in bad working conditions, but if such conditions are not illegal, then it is a reflection of your government. Or... more aptly put, don't just blame corporations; your government allows them to legally do what they do.

Also... we must be mindful of the standard of living of countries. Obviously if you compare US workers' wages to those of workers in poorer countries, it will look atrocious.

Except if you apply the McDonald's Extra Value Meal test to find your country's/region's standard of living, this can be put in perspective. (hehe... a quick way to compare standard of living in different parts of the US)

If, say, an EVM in the US averages $3.00 ... and the average non-educated worker makes $12 per hour... you have a 4-to-1 wage-to-EVM ratio.

If in another country the average wage is $2 an hour... well that seems horrible. But if the average McDonald's EVM costs 50 cents, then there you go. hehe. a 4-to-1 ratio, as there is in the US.

...we'll give their children good jobs making Levi's, and hand out free admissions to "the Patriot" to soften them up....


Yeah.... just propogandize them more...

And then you voted to invoke the Patriot Act 1 and 2 which gives the government the right to monitor everything you say and do, and to cart YOU off in the middle of the night without anyone having to say anything to anyone?

So... We are THANKFUL? Sounds like you traded one dictator for another...

I am pretty sure Sinuhue is Canadian...which means she didn't vote for either of those things.

And then you voted to invoke the Patriot Act 1 and 2 which gives the government the right to monitor everything you say and do, and to cart YOU off in the middle of the night without anyone having to say anything to anyone?

So... We are THANKFUL? Sounds like you traded one dictator for another...
I must have missed that vote, being Canadian and all, but let me tell you, I'd take Pinochet over some pinko commie with a scraggly beard and a dangling cigar ANY DAY! Patriot Act me all you want as long as the damn commies don't get their hands on things! Freedom is only as good as the money you have to buy it with, and those frigging reds just want to get their greedy little hands on what MY forefathers killed my other forefathers for!

yes, pinochet has done so much for chile that they should change santiago to sanaugusto
Actually, I think they were considering San Ugarte.

Ah, so it's okay for people to vanish and be murdered, so long as Capitalism is able to flourish? Wondeful way of thinking.


Yes.. "Who cares who died, as long as the economy is ok"... NO ONE EVER SAYS THAT as they're last breath..

"I died doing whats right my love..... Saving the economy from communists..." - World War II soldier at Juno Beach....

My ass they would say that...

I must have missed that vote, being Canadian and all, but let me tell you, I'd take Pinochet over some pinko commie with a scraggly beard and a dangling cigar ANY DAY! Patriot Act me all you want as long as the damn commies don't get their hands on things! Freedom is only as good as the money you have to buy it with, and those frigging reds just want to get their greedy little hands on what MY forefathers killes my other forefathers for!

If you start a newsletter, I'll subscribe :D.

Yes.. "Who cares who died, as long as the economy is ok"... NO ONE EVER SAYS THAT as they're last breath..

"I died doing whats right my love..... Saving the economy from communists..." - World War II soldier at Juno Beach....

My ass they would say that...

The 5'10", white, christian, republican male from Kentucky would... If ya know what I mean ;).

Just so you know, I hate the narco-Nazis who called themselves the Contras just as much as I do the Sandinistas.

I only know it from this <--------------------------------------> far away and from <-----------------------------------> long ago... I know only that the US created a mercenary army to slaughter civilians and they were convicted of it.

Besides some other smatterings. I certainly didn't live there... But i don't want them to suffer like they are now, or then...

But i don't want them to suffer like they are now, or then...

Same here. :(

I only know it from this <--------------------------------------> far away and from <-----------------------------------> long ago... I know only that the US created a mercenary army to slaughter civilians and they were convicted of it.

Besides some other smatterings. I certainly didn't live there... But i don't want them to suffer like they are now, or then...
It is precisely because of groups like the Contras that you enjoy the freedom you do now, because if they had let the Sandinistas have their way, you'd be sitting in a bare room, staring at your tv-less house, wearing cheap, state-produced overalls with nary a high-tech microfibre in sight, and eating stale weiners for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All that, the contras, and the judicial use of force, has saved you from. So you just be thankful the Patriot Act is saving you from such a sad existence. You don't know how good you have it, young man!

most of the Latin American governments waged a dirty war against Socialists and Communists during the 1960s and 1970s... Pinochet was far from unique.

Tens of thousands of people were executed without trial in practically every nation in Latin America during that period. These governments were only democratic in a fictional sense. They also were essentially props for the ruling classes of those nations to continue to maintain power.

Thats all true.

It is also well known that Che Guevera was killed by a combined operation by US Special Forces and local government forces. It is well known that Somoza in Nicuaruaga was extremely corrupt.

It is also known that in spite of this, these governments are all know for the most part fairly liberal democracies, and that the rule of law has replaced the rule of autocracies.

Would this have happened if the Communists had taken power in those nations? Almost certainly not as quickly. Would they be economic basket cases far worse of than they are now? Almost definitely.

Its a complex story, and painting the men responsible for those dirty wars as common criminals is hardly accurate. In the end, the murders of all of those students, labor leaders and criminally stupid agitators bought enough time for real liberty to reach those nations.

The Cold War was a lot more costly than people realized. It wasn't just the US vs the Soviet Union, but the idealogy of communism (where the state is more important than the man) vs the idealogy of democracy (where the man and the rule of law is the state). In the end are those nations in Latin America better or worse of because of their "Dirty Wars"? That is the real question.

Is Cuba better or worse off than it would be if Fidel had failed and Batista or some other corrupt dictator remained in power in Cuba?

Those are the questions that should be examined.

I'm glad you're taking this time to reflect on your good fortune.

So you're against the economic/proprietary freedom/rights which capitalism/free-enterprise allow their constituents to enjoy?

Hmmm... so you're just a communist in the economic/financial sense of the word?


I know what I don't stand for. and I know what I do stand for... You can't label me anything you wish.

Capitalism and Free Enterprise are fine... Or were prior to about 1870. Then Corporations applied to be viewed as "humans" under the 14th Amendment. Then the Corporations have conglomerated and grown and so forth for the last 130 years. Now there are 15 Giant Mega corps wanting to control everything on the planet. Countries are held ransom by them and they have absolutely NO moral fiber as laid out in their only goal has to be to make money.

Now, I live in a world with PUBLIC corporations and PRIVATE ones. The public ones have strict charters and can work without profit from time to time... That's a good thing.... Stable, has goals other than money.... Thats not the way of what happens when you bring people in abject poverty a corporate sweat shop. The people in the developing world, and their "rulers" are being systematically swindled into buying contracts under more and more desperate circumstances to take advantage of the populations dire neediness. People say, they are happy to get jobs.

Sure, I believe that. However, they should be learning to being self sustaining and growing crops and then building their own society in the way that occurs naturally... To force them to rely on a corporate source for food is hideous... They have to work to buy food instead of growing real grain (Not monsanto, kill itself off in one season crap either, real FOOD)

These people are not ENJOYING the free enterprise market, they are held prisoner by it, and subsquently by the US, and since they are the people who voted to put them in power, the People of the US. So to them, and most everywhere in the world, you are becoming "the enemy".

Classify me if you would like, however, I prefer the term "awake" or "seeing things as they are, not as I wish them to be."

It is well known that Somoza in Nicuaruaga was extremely corrupt.

False. He was accused of profiting from aid sent after the 1972 Managua earthquake, but was never convicted. 28 U.S. investigations investigating the matter found him innocent.

You don't consider people who cut off womens' breasts, decapitate people, and cut people in half lengthways (while they're still alive) terrorists? Or burning people alive, cutting off mens' genitals and stuffing them in their mouths, shooting toddlers, gouging out eyeballs, and cutting out peoples' hearts while they're still alive?

Yes I know some of them. They are international terrorist with orders of arrest in 2 continents. They walk about freely (with goverment "permission")-.They buy their groceries and watch the news every day; they maybe laugh at their former boss, our own "Castro-on-the-other-side", Pinochet. They were former fundo owner and torturers and supporters of the US piuppet regime here in Chile, but they are still killers, murderers, rapists, cannibals, filth. Them two alone have killed more than 50 peasants with their own hands, during the rise and revenge of capitalists here in chile in late eighties.I have talked to them personally. I know their torture methods but you don't want to know about that.

:headbang: Had to let it out.You find terrorist closer than you think. Sometimes. :headbang: :headbang:

It is precisely because of groups like the Contras that you enjoy the freedom you do now, because if they had let the Sandinistas have their way, you'd be sitting in a bare room, staring at your tv-less house, wearing cheap, state-produced overalls with nary a high-tech microfibre in sight, and eating stale weiners for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All that, the contras, and the judicial use of force, has saved you from. So you just be thankful the Patriot Act is saving you from such a sad existence. You don't know how good you have it, young man!

and you'd have to wait in line 10 hours for those awful weiners because your government wouldn't allow your country to trade with capitalist countries because capitalist countries are able to produce superior products at lower cost to consumers.

*snip*
Oye...eres chileno? Como estai loco?

and you'd have to wait in line 10 hours for those awful weiners because your government wouldn't allow your country to trade with capitalist countries because capitalist countries are able to produce superior products at lower cost to consumers.
Well that's exactly why they would be stale. Only with capitalism can you be assured fresh weiners.

and you'd have to wait in line 10 hours for those awful weiners because your government wouldn't allow your country to trade with capitalist countries because capitalist countries are able to produce superior products at lower cost to consumers.

Yeah, because they ruthlessly exploit workers in other countries, fuck, even their home countries. Just look at Wal-Mart.

Well that's exactly why they would be stale. Only with capitalism can you be assured fresh weiners.

Erm... Anybody else get a really screwy mental image from this?

When a man survives over 1,000 assassination attempts you have to take it personally as an insult.


Only 600.

No wonder we did so well with the bay of pigs invasion...

capitalist countries are able to produce superior products at lower cost to consumers.

Lower cost = political opression in third world countries. But you don't want to know about that either.

Sinihue, soy chileno, o mejor decir un ciudadano de la Araucanía. :p

Communism is born (i think) of defeatism... thinking that people are too stupid/lazy to be able to fend for themselves... thinking that those horrible corporations are out to take advantage of Average Joe.

All the while, corporations:

a)Employ (IE, give a job to...)
b)Sell goods and services to (generally at prices commanded by consumers, the millions of Average Joes out there)
c)Provide investment opportunities for...

Average Joe.

Don't hate capitalism... people want to be free to spend their money the way they see fit, and entrepreneurialism is one possible arena into which such money/time/ambition may be placed. If you live in a foreign (foreign to me.. outside the US) land where labor practices and/or pay is bad, don't blame the corporations... blame your government for not passing laws prohibiting such practices. Corporations' #1 responsibility is to their shareholders, and one way to help ensure a good return on investment is to maximize profit... and one way to greatly help profit is to decrease cost. One source of cost is labor.

Of course it is bad to under-pay people or put them in bad working conditions, but if such conditions are not illegal, then it is a reflection of your government. Or... more aptly put, don't just blame corporations; your government allows them to legally do what they do.

Also... we must be mindful of the standard of living of countries. Obviously if you compare US workers' wages to those of workers in poorer countries, it will look atrocious.

Except if you apply the McDonald's Extra Value Meal test to find your country's/region's standard of living, this can be put in perspective. (hehe... a quick way to compare standard of living in different parts of the US)

If, say, an EVM in the US averages $3.00 ... and the average non-educated worker makes $12 per hour... you have a 4-to-1 wage-to-EVM ratio.

If in another country the average wage is $2 an hour... well that seems horrible. But if the average McDonald's EVM costs 50 cents, then there you go. hehe. a 4-to-1 ratio, as there is in the US.



Proof that Economics is racists yet again... ;P Here is the facts...

Say you make 2 a week, over 1/3 of that must go to "water" because your country got a loan from the World Bank and as they don't deal with public things, they privitized the water supply. So.. Some company in San Francisco forces these people to paythem a third of their pay, in addition to food and clothing, of course, they never have enough.... You were not even allowed collecting rainwater, because that was technically part fo the cities water supply according to the contract.

Eventually the people revolted chanting "The People United cannot be defeated" They took machingun fire, tear gassing, and literally fought the police and military with their bare hands until they made the water supply "free again"...

That happened... And will continue to happen. Communism and Capitalism have absolutely nothing to do with it.

It is precisely because of groups like the Contras that you enjoy the freedom you do now, because if they had let the Sandinistas have their way, you'd be sitting in a bare room, staring at your tv-less house, wearing cheap, state-produced overalls with nary a high-tech microfibre in sight, and eating stale weiners for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All that, the contras, and the judicial use of force, has saved you from. So you just be thankful the Patriot Act is saving you from such a sad existence. You don't know how good you have it, young man!
Of course, just remember the Elián González case of some years ago. The poor kid in Cuba had to resort to running around with his friends in the fields exposed to sunlight, with nothing more than sticks, pebbles, cans and maybe a ball to play games with. I mean, they had to resort to their frigging imaginations to have fun, for crying out loud! What kind of a childhood is that?

Sinihue, soy chileno, o mejor decir un ciudadano de la Araucanía. :p
pucha...chileno hasta los huesos entonces:). Eres santigueño? Y, antes que me lo dices, odio a Pinochet mas que la chucha...no soy na' tonta pero me ENCANTA hacer a rabiar los huevones aqui !

I know what I don't stand for. and I know what I do stand for... You can't label me anything you wish.

Capitalism and Free Enterprise are fine... Or were prior to about 1870. Then Corporations applied to be viewed as "humans" under the 14th Amendment. Then the Corporations have conglomerated and grown and so forth for the last 130 years. Now there are 15 Giant Mega corps wanting to control everything on the planet. Countries are held ransom by them and they have absolutely NO moral fiber as laid out in their only goal has to be to make money.

Now, I live in a world with PUBLIC corporations and PRIVATE ones. The public ones have strict charters and can work without profit from time to time... That's a good thing.... Stable, has goals other than money.... Thats not the way of what happens when you bring people in abject poverty a corporate sweat shop. The people in the developing world, and their "rulers" are being systematically swindled into buying contracts under more and more desperate circumstances to take advantage of the populations dire neediness. People say, they are happy to get jobs.

Sure, I believe that. However, they should be learning to being self sustaining and growing crops and then building their own society in the way that occurs naturally... To force them to rely on a corporate source for food is hideous... They have to work to buy food instead of growing real grain (Not monsanto, kill itself off in one season crap either, real FOOD)

These people are not ENJOYING the free enterprise market, they are held prisoner by it, and subsquently by the US, and since they are the people who voted to put them in power, the People of the US. So to them, and most everywhere in the world, you are becoming "the enemy".

Classify me if you would like, however, I prefer the term "awake" or "seeing things as they are, not as I wish them to be."

competition is an important concept... because if corporations are totally free -- nay, if we are all free to engage in business without hindrance, guess what -- unless there are able compititors who can challenge the mega-corporations... the megacorporations will prosper. This is a tough call for me... because I cherish freedom in business. On the other hand, monopolies can be very bad for the consumer; competition is so often advantageous for consumers.

as for your wakefulness, it has more to do with your cognitive lens.

Of course, just remember the Elián González case of some years ago. The poor kid in Cuba had to resort to running around with his friends in the fields exposed to sunlight, with nothing more than sticks, pebbles, cans and maybe a ball to play games with. I mean, they had to resort to their frigging imaginations to have fun, for crying out loud! What kind of a childhood is that?
That was such a terrible situation. That poor child was clearly being neglected in Cuba. I can't believe they allowed him to be kidnapped back to a Third World nations when he could have made something of himself in the US. :(

It is precisely because of groups like the Contras that you enjoy the freedom you do now, because if they had let the Sandinistas have their way, you'd be sitting in a bare room, staring at your tv-less house, wearing cheap, state-produced overalls with nary a high-tech microfibre in sight, and eating stale weiners for breakfast, lunch and dinner. All that, the contras, and the judicial use of force, has saved you from. So you just be thankful the Patriot Act is saving you from such a sad existence. You don't know how good you have it, young man!

Well... I am a minimalist now... I don't watch TV or abscribe to fashion trends, I don't need the biggest and the best, and I don't want to be ever "proud" of something that I bought... You are proud of what you build, proud of what you create...

TV is literally from all I can see a system of control and now its getting direct... Fox says "I am a republican front" CBS says "I am just happy to still be here" CNN says "I will give you 24 hours of Paris Hilton, Michael Jackson and Martha Stewart, because this will sell our crap and keep you completely distracted while me and my friends carve up your fucking country...."

And I live in a socialist country now... And I am very very happy for it...

Communism is born (i think) of defeatism... thinking that people are too stupid/lazy to be able to fend for themselves... thinking that those horrible corporations are out to take advantage of Average Joe.

The corporations that pay 30 cents to the Average Joe in Honduras for a pair of shoes that they then sell to the Average Joe in St. Louis at 100 times the cost?

No, of course, not. Those corporations are fine. We are talking about the bad ones.

Well... I am a minimalist now... I don't watch TV or abscribe to fashion trends, I don't need the biggest and the best, and I don't want to be ever "proud" of something that I bought... You are proud of what you build, proud of what you create...

TV is literally from all I can see a system of control and now its getting direct... Fox says "I am a republican front" CBS says "I am just happy to still be here" CNN says "I will give you 24 hours of Paris Hilton, Michael Jackson and Martha Stewart, because this will sell our crap and keep you completely distracted while me and my friends carve up your fucking country...."

And I live in a socialist country now... And I am very very happy for it...
Paris Hilton is the essence of what makes Capitalism so good...the absolute freedom to enjoy wealth based on the complete and utter lack of talent, the capacity to be born into a social class that guarantees you will never have to do a day of labour in your life...this is the ultimate American Dream, and by God, I think it's a dream we all share...a dream that we should be proud to export, enforce, and step into the shady side of morality in order to promote! You live in a socialist country? They you lack the right to this dream. You are so lost, you don't even see that you are imprisioned by your dogma. You've been so brainwashed that you actually believe someone like Paris Hilton is unworthy of your admiration. I truly feel sorry for your lack, and I will do my utmost to make sure that your country is allowed to follow the American Dream one day!

Yeah, because they ruthlessly exploit workers in other countries, fuck, even their home countries. Just look at Wal-Mart.


We got rid of one Wal Mart here, and I think we will get rid of a bunch more when we start unionizing them all.

capitalist countries are able to produce superior products at lower cost to consumers.

Lower cost = political opression in third world countries. But you don't want to know about that either.

Sinihue, soy chileno, o mejor decir un ciudadano de la Araucanía. :p


Thank you for your honest succinctness... I tend to try to explain things instead of hitting people on the head with it. But that was a damn good hit...

That was such a terrible situation. That poor child was clearly being neglected in Cuba. I can't believe they allowed him to be kidnapped back to a Third World nations when he could have made something of himself in the US. :(

I can't say I agree with you there Sinuhue. His mother and her husband tried to make it to the US and died trying. They didn't consult the childs father, and were basically taking him away forever. I seem to recall the US government was satisfied that he was a good father and a good man, and could not justify taking away a man's son on idealogical grounds.

Sure, Elian went back to Third World Cuba. To live with his father, his closest relative and the one person in the world with a connection to him as close as his mother.

He will have his own chance and choice one day to choose to make a run for the US if he wants. By every standard of international law, the Clinton Administration made the correct decision in that case.

I can't say I agree with you there Sinuhue. His mother and her husband tried to make it to the US and died trying. They didn't consult the childs father, and were basically taking him away forever. I seem to recall the US government was satisfied that he was a good father and a good man, and could not justify taking away a man's son on idealogical grounds.

Sure, Elian went back to Third World Cuba. To live with his father, his closest relative and the one person in the world with a connection to him as close as his mother.

He will have his own chance and choice one day to choose to make a run for the US if he wants. By every standard of international law, the Clinton Administration made the correct decision in that case.
That child would have been better off in the foster-care system in the US than with his commie, Cuban father.

Of course, just remember the Elián González case of some years ago. The poor kid in Cuba had to resort to running around with his friends in the fields exposed to sunlight, with nothing more than sticks, pebbles, cans and maybe a ball to play games with. I mean, they had to resort to their frigging imaginations to have fun, for crying out loud! What kind of a childhood is that?


Sounds like mine.... I was happier than I ever was... I even biked without a helmet or jumped from bridges into water below waving at the cars passing by and occassionally some nice people from the nearby church would bring us over icecream from the bucket. We all shared the spoon...

So what about todays kids... lets see... Heres what they will say:

Mom and Dad don't know me... They put me infront of the TV all day, where I learned my place in corporate society... They are rejects from the past, they don't know anything, and the picture box told me that old people arn't cool... I should call that "Rat out my family hotline" set up by homeland security and get my dads friend in trouble who has that named "Amak Shabbar".. He's brown so he'll probably get assraped... hehe... Oh and mom keeps saying I shouldn't use that bio-card, cause it's against some amendment... Whatever mom, it is the only thing they let me pay for my lunch ay school with....My thumbprint and retinal ID thing..."

That child would have been better off in the foster-care system in the US than with his commie, Cuban father.

not in Florida... the state of Florida actually lost track of a lot of foster children (oops to say the least).

I can't agree with you though and nearly every American family court wouldn't either. Only in proven cases of danger to a child will the emotional ties of close family be set aside for foster care except in short term investigative situations.

not in Florida... the state of Florida actually lost track of a lot of foster children (oops to say the least).

I can't agree with you though and nearly every American family court wouldn't either. Only in proven cases of danger to a child will the emotional ties of close family be set aside for foster care except in short term investigative situations.
What clearer danger is there than the fact that this child is going to become a brain-washed worshipper of Mao?

competition is an important concept... because if corporations are totally free -- nay, if we are all free to engage in business without hindrance, guess what -- unless there are able compititors who can challenge the mega-corporations... the megacorporations will prosper. This is a tough call for me... because I cherish freedom in business. On the other hand, monopolies can be very bad for the consumer; competition is so often advantageous for consumers.

as for your wakefulness, it has more to do with your cognitive lens.


I think you miss that I don't MIND money, or corporations which sare controlled by the people...

Personally I feel we should have a social revolution. One in which all corporations and dissolved and all the assets of them seized by the people. Then workers elect their supervisors and so forth until we have functioning councils and they report ot the government and we utilize the internet to "sell/give away" the surplus. In fact, under that system, you wouldn't really need money. hmm

Paris Hilton is the essence of what makes Capitalism so good...the absolute freedom to enjoy wealth based on the complete and utter lack of talent, the capacity to be born into a social class that guarantees you will never have to do a day of labour in your life...this is the ultimate American Dream, and by God, I think it's a dream we all share...a dream that we should be proud to export, enforce, and step into the shady side of morality in order to promote! You live in a socialist country? They you lack the right to this dream. You are so lost, you don't even see that you are imprisioned by your dogma. You've been so brainwashed that you actually believe someone like Paris Hilton is unworthy of your admiration. I truly feel sorry for your lack, and I will do my utmost to make sure that your country is allowed to follow the American Dream one day!


I live in Canada.

And thank you for pointing out something... Yes... America has "classes" and "castes". She is in the "rich bitch" caste, where daddy put her.

That child would have been better off in the foster-care system in the US than with his commie, Cuban father.


I've never seen a Canadian hate so much.. Are you a native?

Most Canadians talk about issues from all angles before making a decision, you seem to really have a hate on for (in my mind) the same people who helped stop the Nazi's (US backed by Coke, IBM, Thyseen and Prescott Bush). I still think we should so simply throw away their sacrifice. 500,000 British Soldier died, 500,000 American Soldiers died and 26 MILLION Russian soldiers died.

My hats off to them. If their governments went on to play a 50 year game of dickin each other over it's not their fault...

Is there any particular reason why this is still in effect. The US has trade with China, Vietnam, Russia, etc., why not Cuba? They have not tried to kick the US out of Guantanamo Bay as far as I know, and it doesn't seem like they have been a treat to national security since the Cuban Missle Crisis, which was mainly the USSR's doing anyway. To me, it seems the the US is continuing this out of spite.


thats exactly rihgt, out of spite towards castro

not in Florida... the state of Florida actually lost track of a lot of foster children (oops to say the least).

I can't agree with you though and nearly every American family court wouldn't either. Only in proven cases of danger to a child will the emotional ties of close family be set aside for foster care except in short term investigative situations.

They lost over 1000 in three years.

Rumour going around was something to do with Military indoctrination and recruitment... Of course, thats about as proovable as 9/11 being enginneered by Bush Sr...

Well actually, thats much more prooveable, given all the video evidence to support it.

I've never seen a Canadian hate so much.. Are you a native?

Most Canadians talk about issues from all angles before making a decision, you seem to really have a hate on for (in my mind) the same people who helped stop the Nazi's (US backed by Coke, IBM, Thyseen and Prescott Bush). I still think we should so simply throw away their sacrifice. 500,000 British Soldier died, 500,000 American Soldiers died and 26 MILLION Russian soldiers died.

My hats off to them. If their governments went on to play a 50 year game of dickin each other over it's not their fault...
Communism != Russia (or USSR)
Her statement was more against communism not Russia

capitalist countries are able to produce superior products at lower cost to consumers.

Lower cost = political opression in third world countries. But you don't want to know about that either.

Sinihue, soy chileno, o mejor decir un ciudadano de la Araucanía. :p

Spearmen
Most US companies do not ship labor overseas. Some of the larger companies do, but again, if they deem it necessary to save money and turn a better profit to reward their shareholders (because US labor is very expensive).. and if other countries allow them to set up shop in those countries... they have not broken the law. One would hope that the work conditions would be okay and that pay would at least be commensurate to bear the standard of living in those countries.

and

Que significa "la Araucania" (no puedo poner la ' encima de las letras correctas)?

Me gusta mucha la idioma espanol. (lol... no puedo poner el tilde)

They lost over 1000 in three years.

Rumour going around was something to do with Military indoctrination and recruitment... Of course, thats about as proovable as 9/11 being enginneered by Bush Sr...

Well actually, thats much more prooveable, given all the video evidence to support it.

no grand conspiracy, just simple incompetence. The investigation since then provided some rather scathing criticism against Floridas Childrens Services. All very well deserved.

Although Communism is a failed system, and has produced evil results everywhere it was tried, people living in that system still make up their own minds whether it is still the 'wave of the future'. They frequently vote with their feet by leaving whenever they can. Or they simply get by like most people the world over do, hoping things will change for the better.

Elian isn't going to be brainwashed or victimized because he went home to his father and nation of birth. He will live in a poor economy, with a corrupt government that frequently oppresses and murders its own people, but that doesn't mean he will specifically be oppressed or brainwashed.

By that standard, we should take in the children from all non Western type democracies because we don't want them brainwashed. We simply can't do that. Nor should we. They have parents who love them, and they love their parents. Seperating a child from his parent based on idealogy is something we used to condemn Communist and Fascist nations for doing.

Its simply wrong period.

I've never seen a Canadian hate so much.. Are you a native?
She is... I think.

What clearer danger is there than the fact that this child is going to become a brain-washed worshipper of Mao?

Mao? em... since when did Chinese communism corollate with Cuban communism... and no, they're not the same. Most of the communist regimes have vast elements of nationalism- which is why the USSR and the PRC could never get it together.

Next you'll be saying Hugo Chavez is a tyrant because those dastardly poor in the slums keep voting for him :rolleyes:

Hehe... You're having fun, aren't you, Sinuhue? :D You know it's not fair on those here who don't know you?

Hehe... You're having fun, aren't you, Sinuhue? :D You know it's not fair on those here who don't know you?

Well thats just being mean now isn't it! :D :p

This thread needs a poll...