NationStates Jolt Archive

NOTE: Although the building has been the center of much controversy, my personal opinion is that it's going to be a beautiful structure.


A Temple of Contemplation and Conflict (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/arts/design/20free.html?th&emc=th)

By NICOLAI OUROUSSOFF
Published: May 20, 2005

FOR architects who find inspiration in conflict, ground zero can be perversely fascinating. From the battles over money and security to the nasty political elbowing, all of the ingredients are there.

The strains are evident in the design for a new museum that will house the International Freedom Center and the Drawing Center, unveiled yesterday by the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation. The building, by the Norwegian firm Snohetta, is strangely seductive: with some fine-tuning, it could even become a fascinating work. It is already closer to the standard set by Santiago Calatrava's soaring glass-and-steel transportation hub than that of the site's troubled Freedom Tower, for example.

But ultimately, the museum is more about politics than architecture - a theme-park view of American ideals in an alluring wrapper.

Under a master plan drafted by the architect Daniel Libeskind, the building would rise on a one-acre site at the northeast corner of the memorial park. This is envisioned as ground zero's main cultural intersection, with Frank Gehry's proposed theater complex across Fulton Street to the north and Mr. Calatrava's transportation hub to the east. Two memorial pools mimicking the footprints of the former Twin Towers are to frame the complex to the south and west.

Snohetta's design, a hulking structure clad in a skin of wood and glass, is a clever response to the challenges posed by the site's bickering constituencies. The museum building lies directly above Mr. Calatrava's train station, for example, and he insisted that its supporting columns not intrude into his space. He also demanded that the design allow light to flow down onto the train platforms.

Then, halfway through the design process, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey informed Snohetta that the museum building would somehow have to absorb up to 40,000 square feet of vents and mechanical equipment, bloating its scale.

[ This article is two pages and included a slide show of artist's renderings. Read the entire article and view the slide show (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/arts/design/20free.html?th&emc=th). ]

I'm for Trump's plan. Build the twin towers back and build them bigger. It'd be the world's biggest, double-fisted middle finger to those that would try to bring down the US.

I hope I live to see this built.

I was a child when the first World Trade Center Towers were built-I think they went up in record time. We lived in Brooklyn and watched them go up.

I'm for Trump's plan. Build the twin towers back and build them bigger. It'd be the world's biggest, double-fisted middle finger to those that would try to bring down the US.


It sucks that we have to live with the fact that they will be a target. I agree with the notion they should be rebuilt,for the most part and not replaced.
I hope that they will be able to attract businesses back. They're going to have to make it pretty attractive and prestigious to get people back in there.

I'm for Trump's plan. Build the twin towers back and build them bigger. It'd be the world's biggest, double-fisted middle finger to those that would try to bring down the US.
LOL! There was actually a drawing making the rounds shortly after 9/11 which showed several towers to replace the WTC. It looked exactly like a massive "flip off!" :D

Wow. So, they are going to keep milking these people for all they are worth.

It sucks that we have to live with the fact that they will be a target. I agree with the notion they should be rebuilt,for the most part and not replaced.
I hope that they will be able to attract businesses back. They're going to have to make it pretty attractive and prestigious to get people back in there.
There was a movie several years back called "The World According to Garp." Early in the movie, the main character, "Garp," is looking for a new home to buy. The real estate agent takes Garp and his wife to see a house. Just as they drive up, a small airplane crashes into the house's second story. Garp immediately makes an offer on the house. His wife is incredulous and asks why. He replies that it should be the safest place to raise children, saying "What are the chances that [ the plane crash ] will ever happen again?"

I suspect many of the businesses which will move into the new WTC will feel the same way. :)

"International Freedom Center"... in the United States of America... roflmao. :eek:

Wow. So, they are going to keep milking these people for all they are worth.
Cute. Find something upbeat and righteous to say once in awhile, willya? :rolleyes:

Ein Deutscher']"International Freedom Center"... in the United States of America... roflmao. :eek:
[ Eutrusca politely invites Ein Deutscher to go perform an impossible act upon his own body. ]

And the same to you.

Ein Deutscher']"International Freedom Center"... in the United States of America... roflmao. :eek:


Do you suggest we consider a place in Europe to put it up? I mean, surely there must be a completely honorable and virtuous country there?

Cute. Find something upbeat and righteous to say once in awhile, willya? :rolleyes:


You cant expect someone so saturated with bitter ignorance and contempt to say something up beat.

Play nice, people.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

...

I envision a single large tower occupying the entire site. That would make it wide and thick enough that a single plane can't cut through it all the way. It would be a truncated conical tower, so it'd have a flat circular top. It'd have balcony-rings at regular vertical intervals, with walkways and gardens on the outer edge, making it look like a tall Hanging Garden of Babylon. ...or Hanging Garden of New York. Just inside the outer edge would be spiral driveways going up and around the tower all the way to the top so that you could drive vehicles (like firetrucks) right up the tower and get off at whatever level you needed.

Too bad I'm not an architect.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Why can't we just rebuild the Twin Towers and stop with all this Freedom Tower bullshittery?

Why can't we just rebuild the Twin Towers and stop with all this Freedom Tower bullshittery?

That's exactly what The Donald wants to do. He wants to rebuild the exact same World Trade Center, but the towers will be a few stories taller, and a monument will be placed on the plaza.

That's what I would like to see. "Freedom Tower", pffft.

Why can't we just rebuild the Twin Towers and stop with all this Freedom Tower bullshittery?That's a possibility. Of course, it'd have to be better built than the previous Twin Towers. The stairways and elevators in the core of the building would have to be much better protected.

When the planes hit, they cut right through and destroyed the stairs and elevators. The jet fuel spilled, ignited, and set all the combustibles on the impacted floors on fire; the sprinkler system had been cut off in the crash. So, we would need some kind of independent sprinkler system, maybe with water tanks or something at the tops of the towers.

Oh, and a stock of parachutes stored at the top would help.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

That's exactly what The Donald wants to do. He wants to rebuild the exact same World Trade Center, but the towers will be a few stories taller, and a monument will be placed on the plaza.

That's what I would like to see. "Freedom Tower", pffft.

I like Trump's plan, honestly. Try to draw the least amount of attention to the fact that 3,000 people died there.

Do you suggest we consider a place in Europe to put it up? I mean, surely there must be a completely honorable and virtuous country there?
Nope. I don't think anyone can claim to be morally good enough to own an "International" Freedom Center. I'd never ever consider that one legitimate. The US, of all countries in the world, is not the best one right now to have such a thing. It's kinda a perversion of the word freedom itself... :(

Play nice, people.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

...

I envision a single large tower occupying the entire site. That would make it wide and thick enough that a single plane can't cut through it all the way. It would be a truncated conical tower, so it'd have a flat circular top. It'd have balcony-rings at regular vertical intervals, with walkways and gardens on the outer edge, making it look like a tall Hanging Garden of Babylon. ...or Hanging Garden of New York. Just inside the outer edge would be spiral driveways going up and around the tower all the way to the top so that you could drive vehicles (like firetrucks) right up the tower and get off at whatever level you needed.

Too bad I'm not an architect.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
The Japanese beat you to it. :)

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e/superhigh/2skycity/skycity.htm

Ein Deutscher']Nope. I don't think anyone can claim to be morally good enough to own an "International" Freedom Center. I'd never ever consider that one legitimate. The US, of all countries in the world, is not the best one right now to have such a thing. It's kinda a perversion of the word freedom itself... :(
I think that the "International" part comes from the fact that it wasn't just Americans that died there on 9-11. People from all races and a large number of countries worked in the Twin Towers...and died there.

Ein Deutscher']Nope. I don't think anyone can claim to be morally good enough to own an "International" Freedom Center. I'd never ever consider that one legitimate. The US, of all countries in the world, is not the best one right now to have such a thing. It's kinda a perversion of the word freedom itself... :(


So...we shouldnt even try? Just give up because we all have blood on our hands? We're all tainted, so there is no use in ever creating something with good intentions?
You're way too young to be so cynical.

I think that the "International" part comes from the fact that it wasn't just Americans that died there on 9-11. People from all races and a large number of countries worked in the Twin Towers...and died there.
Ah and this automatically grants the US the right to build an "International" Freedom Center. If you say so... *shrug* I still think it lacks any legitimation.

The Japanese beat you to it. :)

http://www.takenaka.co.jp/takenaka_e/superhigh/2skycity/skycity.htm


Thats really beautiful and impressive. Are they actually going to build it?

So...we shouldnt even try? Just give up because we all have blood on our hands? We're all tainted, so there is no use in ever creating something with good intentions?
You're way too young to be so cynical.
Firstly, you don't know my age. Secondly, if one has blood on his hands and is tainted, which the US image clearly is, the construction of an "International" Freedom Center is like a slap in the face of the rest of the world, who watches with disgust what goes on while the US trampels human rights and freedoms of others with their feet. It's a disgrace and hypocritial. It's so disgustingly capitalist yet again that I am wondering if nobody in the US who is responsible for these sort of things has any common sense.

It's so disgustingly capitalist
ahhhh... so THAT explains your attitude.

ahhhh... so THAT explains your attitude.

He is right, you know...

Ein Deutscher']Nope. I don't think anyone can claim to be morally good enough to own an "International" Freedom Center. I'd never ever consider that one legitimate. The US, of all countries in the world, is not the best one right now to have such a thing. It's kinda a perversion of the word freedom itself... :(

Like all countries, the US has, is, and will continue to make mistakes. However, the one thing we understand completely and have put our lives on the line for countless times is freedom. Ours and other's. Right now US citizens are dying helping other countries struggle in gaining viable democratic nations. You can claim that we only do it for economic gain, but the truth is, the numbers don't add up. What little bit of economic advantage we may, or may not, get, will not make up for the billions we are spending for generations. A sadistic attack and bad intel got us into this war. Love of freedom and compassion for our fellow man is what makes a majority of Americans determined to see this through and to do what it takes to fan the flames of freedom as far as they will go. Ever notice how free, democratic nations never go to war with one another?

The name of the buildings was The WORLD Trade Center. They were attacked, brought down, and 3000 lives were lost in an attempt to destroy the economic base of all democratic nations...not just the US. It was an attack on the world executed on US soil...just as it would be if they had attacked the United Nations. But, they didn't destroy us, they didn't demoralize us, they didn't win. WE did and the US will have a construction dedicated to INTERNATIONAL FREEDOM on our soil again. And we'll be damned if they will blind side us like that again.

Like all countries, the US has, is, and will continue to make mistakes. However, the one thing we understand completely and have put our lives on the line for countless times is freedom. Ours and other's. Right now US citizens are dying helping other countries struggle in gaining viable democratic nations. You can claim that we only do it for economic gain, but the truth is, the numbers don't add up. What little bit of economic advantage we may, or may not, get, will not make up for the billions we are spending for generations. A sadistic attack and bad intel got us into this war. Love of freedom and compassion for our fellow man is what makes a majority of Americans determined to see this through and to do what it takes to fan the flames of freedom as far as they will go. Ever notice how free, democratic nations never go to war with one another?

The name of the buildings was The WORLD Trade Center. They were attacked, brought down, and 3000 lives were lost in an attempt to destroy the economic base of all democratic nations...not just the US. It was an attack on the world executed on US soil...just as it would be if they had attacked the United Nations. But, they didn't destroy us, they didn't demoralize us, they didn't win. WE did and the US will have a construction dedicated to INTERNATIONAL FREEDOM on our soil again. And we'll be damned if they will blind side us like that again.


Dont waste your breath on hateful twits. They revel in any action against the US. We're ok. We certainly dont need anything from them, including their approval or acceptance.

Rebuilding the original WTC (though up to much higher standards) would send a much stronger message to everyone.

"You screw with us, and it won't do a thing."

He is right, you know...
Sue me.. I'm a disgusting capitalist. :)

Ein Deutscher']Firstly, you don't know my age. Secondly, if one has blood on his hands and is tainted, which the US image clearly is, the construction of an "International" Freedom Center is like a slap in the face of the rest of the world, who watches with disgust what goes on while the US trampels human rights and freedoms of others with their feet. It's a disgrace and hypocritial. It's so disgustingly capitalist yet again that I am wondering if nobody in the US who is responsible for these sort of things has any common sense.

Yes, the name makes no sense. It's just overly patriotic. "US Freedom Center" would've been fine with me, but I'd still think it would be an odd name for a center of business.

Yes, the name makes no sense. It's just overly patriotic. "US Freedom Center" would've been fine with me, but I'd still think it would be an odd name for a center of business.

That's just it, it isn't just a financial center for US interests. The original Trade Center, and hopefully, the future Trade Center, housed business concerns from all over the world. 9/11 was not just an attack on the United States.

That's just it, it isn't just a financial center for US interests. The original Trade Center, and hopefully, the future Trade Center, housed business concerns from all over the world. 9/11 was not just an attack on the United States.

But the name "Freedom Tower" sounds just a bit over-zealous. Next thing you know, we'll be spreading "Freedom" throughout the world... Oh, wait, we're already doing that. Wonderful.

I have no hatred towards the U.S. in any way, shape or form but i feel that it is unacceptable to name the new structure the "International Freedom Centre"

Its this kind of pretentious attitude that annoys many people from around the world. It sends the message that americans view the freedom in other countries as lesser than their own.

I understand that this isnt completely logical but when have human emotions ever been so. Too many of these arguments fail to take into account this factor and if the U.S. wants to be as great a country as I wish it was then taking the emotions of others into account in its decisions would be the first step

I have no hatred towards the U.S. in any way, shape or form but i feel that it is unacceptable to name the new structure the "International Freedom Centre"

Its this kind of pretentious attitude that annoys many people from around the world. It sends the message that americans view the freedom in other countries as lesser than their own.

I understand that this isnt completely logical but when have human emotions ever been so. Too many of these arguments fail to take into account this factor and if the U.S. wants to be as great a country as I wish it was then taking the emotions of others into account in its decisions would be the first step

Agreed.

The designs for the building and grounds are definitely beautiful and innovative, but the whole thing just seems a bit...grandiose, overdone. It looks less like a memorial and more like a space-age theme park.

I have no hatred towards the U.S. in any way, shape or form but i feel that it is unacceptable to name the new structure the "International Freedom Centre"

Its this kind of pretentious attitude that annoys many people from around the world. It sends the message that americans view the freedom in other countries as lesser than their own.

I understand that this isnt completely logical but when have human emotions ever been so. Too many of these arguments fail to take into account this factor and if the U.S. wants to be as great a country as I wish it was then taking the emotions of others into account in its decisions would be the first step

:confused: In what was does this say that we think our freedom is better or greater than the freedoms in other countries? The attacks were a way for some deviant sociopaths to try to demoralize and overpower the US and other countries to rob us of our freedoms. To pull up our bootstraps and build a construction that is better designed, grander, and even a bigger target is a typical American reaction. To dedicate it to the entire world in a mutual celebration of freedom and strength in freedom is a typical American reaction. To take our lumps and rise up stronger and more determined is a typical American reaction.

I am sick to death of hearing how the US should consider how this or that makes another country or group of people "feel". When the world ever takes the time to understand how we feel, then maybe there will be some understanding.

:confused: In what was does this say that we think our freedom is better or greater than the freedoms in other countries?

You don't watch FOX News much, do you?

Oh, and the whole "War on Terror" thing shows it, too. And don't get me started on the "Axis of Evil"...

If the U.S were modest in their achievements and glory then maybe the resentment towards them in europe, etc would not be so great. I am not arguing with the building of a monument to commemorate the victims of a horrible attack but other countries have suffered much worse (e.g. northern ireland where I live) and they are more low-key about their own efforts against terrorism

That a lot of foreigners died in the WTC attack was unfortunate, but not the goal of the terrorists. The goal of the terrorists was revenge and "shock and awe" by destroying an American landmark in the heart of New York, the economic center of the US. Thus these claims that they "attacked the whole West" are laughable. They attacked the US and the foreigners who happened to be there were "colateral damage".

The US has been foremost in cancelling peoples rights and freedoms so the irony of ths place is incredible.

Also it's the obsession with the word 'freedom' about America, even though they blatantly don't have much... (but you've heard the commie argument a hundred times, you aren't cynical enough to see the truth).