NationStates Jolt Archive

(the following comes from Howard Taylors WebBlog (http://www.livejournal.com/users/howardtayler/96186.html) )

Yes, I watched Episodes I and II this week. I'm ready for all the Jedi to die.

Oh, I'd seen them before. I just watched them again to prep for Ep. III. The third movie promises to be a lot of fun, and it'll only be better for having fully steeped myself in the first two.

(Yes, it was painful watching Jar-jar again. Yes, I cringed again at both the immaculate conception and the mitichlorians. Yes, Hayden Christensen still acts like a wooden mannikin. Yes, mannikin rhymes with Anakin.)

Consider:

1) The Jedi are emotional cripples. They can't marry or have families, but are somehow expected to be role models and peacekeepers in galactic society. This principle of leadership through societal aloofness scales poorly, is demonstrably ineffective when compared to simple patriarchal/matriarchal orders (apologies to my Catholic friends), and we see its weaknesses demonstrated not only in the real world, but also in the Lucasverse where Anakin and Padme lie in an effort to have both Jedi power and family love. Those lies are just one more bolt in the coffin-armor of the rising Lord Vader.

2) The Jedi are institutionally stupid. For all their ability to see the future and sense the flow of current events through the power of the force, they still can't believe that a Jedi would tamper with the archives and betray his fellow Knights. Dooku/Tyrannus has been playing them for ten years, and even though Mace Windu knows Dooku to be the leader of the separatists, he just can't believe (until shown) that Dooku would resort to violence.

3) The Jedi fight like idiots. Perhaps, in the noble, royal heritage from which their now sadly corrupt and fallen order sprang, (PERHAPS) it made sense for great warriors to travel solo or in pairs, keeping the peace simply by being shining examples of nobility. In the down-and-dirty of the modern Galactic Republic, though, you need to be able to employ squad tactics, with the full panoply of principles like "rate of fire," "flanking," and "fallback positions." Want to kill a Jedi? Roll a couple of droideka up to him/her, and start blasting. Jedi aren't smart enough to carry shield-penetrating ranged weapons, and that "force push" trick only seems to work for a few of them.

Upshot... the Jedi Order in the last days of the Republic is a corrupt and ineffective warrior caste that NEEDS to be swept away. If they'd managed things correctly, perhaps Anakin could have brought balance to the force by quietly usurping power in the Jedi Council and instituting the Jedi Reformation. Sadly, they blew that chance, and their new Sith Emperor will reform their order a bit more dramatically.

I'm looking forward to Episode III. I'm ready for all the Jedi to die...

Jedis are nothing of the above.

You should watch "The Clone Wars" by the same people who do Samurai Jack, and Dexter's Lab.

The Jedi fight like generals.

hmm To many Shit accents in Episode II!_I know theyr are Kiwis but its not real.
Christensen is a waifer board of talent as is Queen Armadildo!
Jar JAr was the best in that 2nd Movie! :rolleyes:

I rewatched the 1st and saw the second on Monday!

(the following comes from Howard Taylors WebBlog (http://www.livejournal.com/users/howardtayler/96186.html) )

The Jedi fight like idiots. Most of Yoda's tactics involve "send lots of armored guys to die off." And lets' remember the "hey, lets get trapped in the middle of a circular arena where they can fire at us from all sides!".

Yeah, right - generals my foot. How many Jedi got wiped out? And who forgot the basic rule of chess - "Protect Your King" - and let Greivous grab Palpatine?

They also are idiots. If you think "midichlorians" were painful to swallow (things that should not ever have existed...) consider this:

1) Jedi are not allowed to marry.
2) If the midichlorians really are what they say in Episode 1 (and ignore in every other chapter), then the means to control the Force appears to be hereditary.
3) The Jedi's abilities to manipulate The Force were waning, and the Jedi Council had been both concealing this fact and trying to figure out why.

Now, okay, maybe I was corrupted by Doc Smith at an early age, but as I see it, if you've got Demonstrably Hereditary Mental Powers, wouldn't you want to ENCOURAGE those bearing them to reproduce? In addition to all the other examples of their decadence that you present, add JUST PLAIN STUPID to the list.

Ergo, Jedi are STUPID - lacking in understanding Biology 101.


Let's consider – both types of Force wielders, at the time of Phantom Menace, are unbalanced emotional cripples. The Sith are angry, emotion-indulging monsters, obviously.

The Jedi, however, are an overreaction to the Sith. They are emotion-supressors who have never had a personal relationship – they were taken from their parents so early they have no real memories of family life, and are prohibited from forming romantic relationships. They never learn how to handle emotion, and are unable to guide Anakin in handling his appropriately; this is what leaves the path open for Anakin to fall to the Dark Side.

This is most clearly seen when we see what happens in movies IV-VI. Raised to adulthood in a normal family relationship, Luke is emotionally balanced compared to the Jedi of old. He first refuses to surrender his obligations to his family, even given the prospect of adventure and a beautiful girl; he only goes with Ben when the Empire leaves him without family. When faced with his friends in peril, he explicitly rejects emotional detachment on Dagobah, ending his training to intervene and (successfully) save his friends. And its his refusal to give up on his emotional attachment to his father – despite the advice of both Yoda and Kenobi – that redeems his father from the Dark Side and inspires Anakin to kill the Emperor.

In the end, the only Force-wielder left in the universe is the balanced Luke Skywalker, who was born of a Jedi-defying emotional attachment and who in each of three movies said "no" to a Jedi urging him to give up his emotional attachments – but who also never gave into rage and emotional indulgence. This is balance in the Force.

Now, how could it have turned out better? Let's assume that Qui-Gon Jinn doesn't get killed by Darth Maul, but lives to train Anakin. Qui-Gon has been at odds with the Jedi Council over something for years; let's assume that it was the question of emotional attachment. In this case, then, the maverick Qui-Gon rescues Shmi Skywalker from Tatooine at first opportunity, rather than forcing Anakin to obey the strict abandonment of previous life doctrine of the Council (which Kenobi, young and not understanding of him mentor's objections, accepted).

In this case, with his mother secure on Coruscant and with a mentor tolerant of emotional development, Anakin becomes an emotionally-mature adult who enters an adult relationship with Padme. Though under criticism from the Jedi Council, and subject to the same fears and temptations as before, the emotionally more-mature Anakin rejects Sidious/Palpatine's offers and is a major contributor to the defeat of the Sith. As a new age of peace begins in the Galaxy, Anakin is accepted as a Jedi Master and his experience is used to reform the Jedi Order . . . establishing balance in the Force.

This, of course, sets up Anakin bringing balance to the Force as a true prophecy, but one that didn't have to be such a tragedy, if only the Jedi had understood . . . .

Nah, screw it, KILL THE JEDI!

The Jedi fight like Generals

(the following comes from Howard Taylors WebBlog (http://www.livejournal.com/users/howardtayler/96186.html) )

For people who are supposed to be the embodiment of wisdom, the Jedi are staggeringly moronic. The Clone Wars are the result of Jedi stupidity more than anything else.

Let's start with the crisis on Naboo. A sovereign entity, the Trade Federation, invades a member planet of the Galactic Republic. The Jedi Council sends one Jedi they don't particularly like or trust and his apprentice, without escort. They are effectively chased off the enemy command craft by two or three advanced droids (the ones with shields and rapid-fire blasters) and sneak down on an invasion craft (despite carrying only droids, for some reason the landing craft had life support systems, so they didn't suck vacuum during planetfall).

The proper response would have been to send a full Republic Navy Battle Group with a few Corps worth of ground-troops (mercenaries, if need be, since it seems damn near everyone in Star Wars knows how to use a blaster and starfighter and has one) and break the blockade of Naboo by force. The Trade Federation, given as they are supposed to be cowardly, would have more than likely cut their losses and broke off communication with Darth Sidious - or even more likely, given his existence up to the Jedi as a token of good faith. No Senate crisis, no Chancellor Palpatine, no Geonosis, and no neo-mitochondria... I mean midichlorians :D . Totally different thing.... ;) The Japanese don't exist in Lucas' universe.

Let's fast forward to Geonosis. A couple dozen Jedi vs. a planet full of hostile alien insectoids and millions of battle droids, with armored cavalry, artillery, and air support. Exactly what was the Jedi plan there? They were outnumbered a few thousand to one, and they'd have to destroy every drone and most of the Geonosians (at least that tribe/clan/nation) to get out alive. Yes, the army of Clones showed up, [u]but the Jedi sure as hell seemed surprised, for people who were supposed to be precognitive[/b].

And yet, despite having no sense of strategy, tactics, or intelligence of the situation, the Jedi are put in charge immediately upon contact?!?

This of course leads to another pair of instances of stupidity. Jango Fett - despite being evidently a canny and lethal fighter earlier in the movie, suddenly becomes retarded. A lightsaber is held at his throat, and though he has numerous dart weapons and a pair of blasters on him, he does not take advantage of the Jedi concentrating on someone else and in fact, turning in such a way that they'd be unable to swing their lightsaber at him. Yet, instead of drawing a pistol and vaporizing the Jedi's kidneys with a hipshot, or zotting them with a paralytic dart, or something, he just kind of stands there for a few minutes. I guess he was on a cigarette break. Following that, the gunship carrying Anakin & Co chasing Dooku can't seem to yaw to either side enough to allow those ball-turrets to fire at Dooku's escorts. Or for the craft to use it's own forward blasters, for that matter. It just plods along, waiting for the escorts to circle around behind it... and then it just keeps in the same straight line, letting them shoot it. "We're out of rockets" is the clone's excuse, so obviously they were Jedi-trained. For that matter, why don't the two master Jedi on board use their lightsabers to deflect the blasts back at the little pods?

Because they're idiots.

I have succumbed to the darkside. AND THE SEX HAS NEVER BEEN BETTER!

DIE JEDI SCUM!!!

Maybe that's why the Sith survived - they reproduced.

Hmm, if that was so Vastiva, interesting parrarel to the Drow in AD&D. Very active sexually, but also had significant tendency to backstabbing. Or at least that was what the books hinted. Ah well, in either case, they more or less maintained their numbers, which is something that couldn't be said for the Jedi order.

If you think about it, the Jedi stole children and prevented them from growing up and becoming adults.

PERVERTS! KILL THEM ALL!

I'm looking forward to Episode III. I'm ready for all the Jedi to die...

Yoda will kill you

Vas,
I could go back and forth debating the intelligence and wisdom of Jedi Knights like this was an atheist vs catholic thread if thats what you want to do, but I think your just being difficult for difficulties sake.
In wich case, it would just be bickering over a movie.

DIE JEDI SCUM!!!Stop directly flaming me! :p ;)

~Czardas, Supreme Ruler of the Universe

If you think about it, the Jedi stole children and prevented them from growing up and becoming adults.

PERVERTS! KILL THEM ALL!
Michael Jackson was a Jedi? :confused:

No, he's a Sith.

And why do fanboys drool over the blue Jedi with the tails on her head? :confused:

And why do fanboys drool over the blue Jedi with the tails on her head? :confused:
That's a Twi'lek. They make great dancers/slave girls, doncha know? I wonder what the male Twi'leks are good for... ;)

And why do fanboys drool over the blue Jedi with the tails on her head? :confused:
The race is called Twi'lek..

Maybe that's why the Sith survived - they reproduced.

"There are always two. No more, no less. One master and one apprentice."

That's a Twi'lek. They make great dancers/slave girls, doncha know? I wonder what the male Twi'leks are good for... ;)

Male Twi'leks are your standard semi-decent henchman. They're also particularly apt traders, if I recall, working their way into the old Czerka corporation *in the KOTOR series* and elsewhere.

As for the jedi... people don't seem to understand. The whole point that the jedi are falling apart is because they simply don't understand that they NEED the Sith, just as the Sith need the Jedi. There needs to be balance in the force, to keep them on their toes. it's like Rome. Without anyone to counter them, what could they do but stagnate and grow ripe for slaughter? As for someone who mentioned the republic should have used their navy in Naboo, I respond... what navy? That's the thing. There was no other force in the galaxy bar the republic. The Mandalorians faded out to one last man *Jango Fett*, the Sith all but disappeared, and the seperatists completely unheard of. The only people who could be even considered enemies of the republic are the Hutts, for all the threat they can exude. Jedi used to be superheroes. All powerful masters of combat, but over the millenia, they have stagnated. Also, Palpatine is clouding all their vision in the dark-side, eliminating their ability to see into the future. Once again, the failing of the jedi is that they are TOO cryptic. They keep everything to themselves and nobody can benefit from their knowledge.

Nothing is more inspiring than seeing the Emperor declare the Galactic Empire. That and the slaughter of the Jedi. Ahh, the relentless march of the clone troopers across the galaxy...

Hail the Empire!

"Darth Vader Strikes Back"

There's going to be an extra scene included in the DVD release of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK coming up next year! Basically, it expands on the scene where Vader reveals his fatherhood to Luke, and ties up some loose ends created with the release of Episode 1 & 2...

The Empire Strikes Back: Extra-Special Edition

INT: BESPIN GANTRY - MOMENTS LATER:

A furious lightsaber duel is underway. DARTH VADER is backing LUKE SKYWALKER towards the end of the gantry. A quick move by Vader, chops off Luke's hand! It goes spinning off into the ventilation shaft. Luke backs away. He looks around, but realizes there's nowhere to go but straight down.
Darth Vader: Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Darth Vader: No... I am your father!
Luke: No, it's not true! It's impossible.
Darth Vader: Search your feelings... you know it to be true.
Luke: NO!
Darth Vader: Yes, it is true, and you know what else? You know that brass droid of yours?
Luke: Threepio?
Darth Vader: Yes... Threepio... I built him... when I was 7 years old...
Luke: No...!
Darth Vader: Seven years old! And what have you done? Look at yourself, no hand, no job, and couldn't even levitate your own ship out of the swamp.
Luke: I destroyed your precious Death Star!
Darth Vader: When you were 20! When I was 10, I single-handedly destroyed a Trade Federation Droid Control ship!
Luke: Well, it's not my fault...
Darth Vader: Oh, here we go... "Poor me... my father never gave me what I wanted for my birthday... boo hoo, my daddy's the Dark Lord of the Sith...waahhh wahhh!"
Luke: Shut up...
Darth Vader: You're a slacker! By the time I was your age, I had exterminated the Jedi knights!
Luke: I used to race my T-16 through Beggar's Canyon.
Darth Vader: Oh, for the love of the Emperor... 10 years old, winner of the Boonta Eve Open... Only human to ever fly a Pod Racer... right here, baby!
{Luke looks down the shaft. Takes a step towards it.}
Darth Vader: I was wrong... You're not my kid... I don't know whose son you are, but you sure ain't mine...
{Luke takes a step off the platform, hesitates, then plunges down the shaft.}
{Darth Vader looks after him.}
Darth Vader: Get a haircut!

It was all goddamn Jar Jar's fault! Him and Sebulba! Hell, it was all of Episode 1's fault that Anakin turned out so screwy.

It was all goddamn Jar Jar's fault! Him and Sebulba! Hell, it was all of Episode 1's fault that Anakin turned out so screwy.
I blame all the Jedi. Except for Yoda and Mace Windu and Obi-Wan because I like them. The Conehead and the Twi'lek are the ones to blame! :p

The problem isn't necessarily stupidity, it's that the jedi's have become so convinced of their own superiority that they don't bother to strategize. They just passed through a time of peace, and all they knew about war was that their predecessors had been unstoppable. The Jedi are formidable, but they are nowhere near as powerful as they like to think.

I blame all the Jedi. Except for Yoda and Mace Windu and Obi-Wan because I like them. The Conehead and the Twi'lek are the ones to blame! :p

It's the Twi'lek's fault. She should spend more time in bars dancing and *entertaining*.

And what species was the Conehead?

Am I the only person whose favorite character besides Palpatine is Nute Gunray?

And once again we find a slew of people who don't understand the Star Wars universe.

It's the Twi'lek's fault. She should spend more time in bars dancing and *entertaining*.

And what species was the Conehead?

Am I the only person whose favorite character besides Palpatine is Nute Gunray?

Yup. Nute was nothing more than a slimey *insert species here* who had no talent, and no real ambition. He was just a pawn with a second rate droid army. Not anything like the super battle droids, which absolutely take republic clones to pieces. And look cool whilst doing it. That said, I do like the second rate droid army. They amuse me in a good way.

And why do fanboys drool over the blue Jedi with the tails on her head? :confused:

Her name is actually Aayla Secura, not "the blue Jedi with tails on her head". I'm guessing that us fanboys "drool" over her becuase she's basically the only sexual figure in the movies. Sure, Padme is there, but she's Anakin's biatch; I don't wanna touch that. And, as we all know, teenage "fanboys" have nothing better to do than touch themselves at night while thinking of Aayla.

And once again we find a slew of people who don't understand the Star Wars universe.

Well I hope I haven't totally embarassed myself. (:D) I haven't read any of the books, but my knowledge of the KOTOR timeline and the two trilogies timeline is fairly good. And anyone who thinks the KOTOR timeline is lesser than the movies is seriously deluding themselves. Those games were gold.

It's the Twi'lek's fault. She should spend more time in bars dancing and *entertaining*.

And what species was the Conehead?

Am I the only person whose favorite character besides Palpatine is Nute Gunray?

Those "conehead's" are Cerean, probably the most intelligent species in the galaxy...

As for the coolest character, it'd have to be Plo Koon. He's just a badass Kel Dor waiting for someone to piss him off so he can slay them. As for the stupidest character, it'd have to be Kit Fisto. No one that smiles like he just had an enema after he knocked down a droid with the Force could ever be cool.

Those "conehead's" are Cerean, probably the most intelligent species in the galaxy...

I wasn't sure, I knew the others but couldn't place hime. Thanks.

Well I hope I haven't totally embarassed myself. (:D) I haven't read any of the books, but my knowledge of the KOTOR timeline and the two trilogies timeline is fairly good. And anyone who thinks the KOTOR timeline is lesser than the movies is seriously deluding themselves. Those games were gold.

Is KOTOR considered canon? I'm just curious... I haven't played those particular games, because I think the Xbox isn't worth the investment...

Jesus Christ

not another Star wars thread :headbang:

Yup. Nute was nothing more than a slimey *insert species here* who had no talent, and no real ambition. He was just a pawn with a second rate droid army. Not anything like the super battle droids, which absolutely take republic clones to pieces. And look cool whilst doing it. That said, I do like the second rate droid army. They amuse me in a good way.

He was Neimoidian, and I liked him because he was talentless and lacked ambition, and was cowardly (not unlike me). I'm not slimy though...

It might have cost more, but the effectiveness of the super battle droids and droidekas probably made them a better long-term investment.

Is KOTOR considered canon? I'm just curious... I haven't played those particular games, because I think the Xbox isn't worth the investment...

yeah, KOTOR is canon as far as I'm aware. if Not, they bloody well should be. But I think that Lucas policy is that if it has the LucasArts seal *which it does*, then it's Canon. You can buy KOTOR 1 and 2 on the pc, if it can handle it, which isn't that difficult. They are well worth the investment. I barely put the games down until they were done. The depth of the plot and the amount they reveal of the jedi, and especially the sith, aas well as the sheer quality of the games makes them any fangirls dream.

He was Neimoidian, and I liked him because he was talentless and lacked ambition, and was cowardly (not unlike me). I'm not slimy though...

It might have cost more, but the effectiveness of the super battle droids and droidekas probably made them a better long-term investment.

heh, the droidekas were actually a waste compared to the battledroids, which were a superior design due to their modularity. Whip off the gun,and put on another arm, and it's a pilot. It also had a big rocket launcher already built in. The Droideka was second to none at infantry supression, but it was too focused. Put it against an AT/PT and watch it get fried. The superbattle droid wouldn't be caught near one if it could help it. It'd most likely return in a dwarf spider and cut a big hole in the PT.

They also are idiots. If you think "midichlorians" were painful to swallow (things that should not ever have existed...) consider this:

1) Jedi are not allowed to marry.
2) If the midichlorians really are what they say in Episode 1 (and ignore in every other chapter), then the means to control the Force appears to be hereditary.
3) The Jedi's abilities to manipulate The Force were waning, and the Jedi Council had been both concealing this fact and trying to figure out why.

Now, okay, maybe I was corrupted by Doc Smith at an early age, but as I see it, if you've got Demonstrably Hereditary Mental Powers, wouldn't you want to ENCOURAGE those bearing them to reproduce? In addition to all the other examples of their decadence that you present, add JUST PLAIN STUPID to the list.

Ergo, Jedi are STUPID - lacking in understanding Biology 101.


Let's consider – both types of Force wielders, at the time of Phantom Menace, are unbalanced emotional cripples. The Sith are angry, emotion-indulging monsters, obviously.

This, of course, sets up Anakin bringing balance to the Force as a true prophecy, but one that didn't have to be such a tragedy, if only the Jedi had understood . . . .

Nah, screw it, KILL THE JEDI!

This entire post was literary genius. And so true. Cheers.

heh, the droidekas were actually a waste compared to the battledroids, which were a superior design due to their modularity. Whip off the gun,and put on another arm, and it's a pilot. It also had a big rocket launcher already built in. The Droideka was second to none at infantry supression, but it was too focused. Put it against an AT/PT and watch it get fried. The superbattle droid wouldn't be caught near one if it could help it. It'd most likely return in a dwarf spider and cut a big hole in the PT.

I would probably use the droidekas against Jedi and small groups and the SB droids as the main forces. The dwarf spiders and the Commerce Guild (Battle Tank? I'm not sure) would form a good attack force to strike the center.

Jesus Christ

not another Star wars thread :headbang:
Funny you should mention Jesus. Has anyone noticed the obvious parallels (sp?) between Jesus and Anakin?

Funny you should mention Jesus. Has anyone noticed the obvious parallels (sp?) between Jesus and Anakin?

I always thought him as a Lucifer of sorts, at first good but amibitious and proud, and his ambition led him to turn to evil and fall to the dark side.

Funny you should mention Jesus. Has anyone noticed the obvious parallels (sp?) between Jesus and Anakin?

Both Virgin Births.

Both Prophesied to do great things.

Both are Murdered by Agents of the Reigning State.

Both came from a Marginalized Minority.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY...



WAIT...




KEEP READING...




ALMOST THERE...







Both of them really feel like they are God's gift to the world!

And once again we find a slew of people who don't understand the Star Wars universe.

Are you aware that George Lucas, on repeated occasions, has condemned the expanded Star Wars universe, which is why the last three films have invalidated about half of it?

The Jedi aren't nearly as much of a problem as the political structure of the Republic is. Apparently, the republic was designed to be make everyone happy in the least effective way possible. It is more of a Confederation with each of its members having an absurd amount of autonomy.

Naboo as an Army. The Trade Federation has an army. Every member state has an army but the Republic does not. At least the Empire fixed that.

Also there doesn't seem to be any Republic laws governing interactions between member states. Making it illegal for one member state to invade another required an unprecidented change in Senate leadership for crying out loud.

One must ask how the Republic gets anything done when tens of thousands of members with differing opinions and interests each get a vote. The only people who ever accomplished anything did so by by passing the Senate alltogether.


The Empire wasn't much better. It relied too much on blowing up rebel planets and didn't really do anything to centralize power other than create an absurdly large army.

Now the Ahb, they knew how to create a functional interstellar government. Simply force all member worlds to become heredity monarchies, adopt the leaders of conquered worlds into the Ahb Royal Family, and give their heirs an Ahb education. This results in local governments that share the ideals of the central government and are accountable to the central government. Insted of fighting a bloody civil war if push comes to shove the central government can just replace a rouge Duke.

Are you aware that George Lucas, on repeated occasions, has condemned the expanded Star Wars universe, which is why the last three films have invalidated about half of it?

I'm speaking strictly of the films, of which he wouldn't have created if they invalidated his vision.

Yes, I watched Episodes I and II this week. I'm ready for all the Jedi to die.

Oh, I'd seen them before. I just watched them again to prep for Ep. III. The third movie promises to be a lot of fun, and it'll only be better for having fully steeped myself in the first two.

(Yes, it was painful watching Jar-jar again. Yes, I cringed again at both the immaculate conception and the mitichlorians. Yes, Hayden Christensen still acts like a wooden mannikin. Yes, mannikin rhymes with Anakin.)

Consider:

1) The Jedi are emotional cripples. They can't marry or have families, but are somehow expected to be role models and peacekeepers in galactic society. This principle of leadership through societal aloofness scales poorly, is demonstrably ineffective when compared to simple patriarchal/matriarchal orders (apologies to my Catholic friends), and we see its weaknesses demonstrated not only in the real world, but also in the Lucasverse where Anakin and Padme lie in an effort to have both Jedi power and family love. Those lies are just one more bolt in the coffin-armor of the rising Lord Vader.

2) The Jedi are institutionally stupid. For all their ability to see the future and sense the flow of current events through the power of the force, they still can't believe that a Jedi would tamper with the archives and betray his fellow Knights. Dooku/Tyrannus has been playing them for ten years, and even though Mace Windu knows Dooku to be the leader of the separatists, he just can't believe (until shown) that Dooku would resort to violence.

3) The Jedi fight like idiots. Perhaps, in the noble, royal heritage from which their now sadly corrupt and fallen order sprang, (PERHAPS) it made sense for great warriors to travel solo or in pairs, keeping the peace simply by being shining examples of nobility. In the down-and-dirty of the modern Galactic Republic, though, you need to be able to employ squad tactics, with the full panoply of principles like "rate of fire," "flanking," and "fallback positions." Want to kill a Jedi? Roll a couple of droideka up to him/her, and start blasting. Jedi aren't smart enough to carry shield-penetrating ranged weapons, and that "force push" trick only seems to work for a few of them.

Upshot... the Jedi Order in the last days of the Republic is a corrupt and ineffective warrior caste that NEEDS to be swept away. If they'd managed things correctly, perhaps Anakin could have brought balance to the force by quietly usurping power in the Jedi Council and instituting the Jedi Reformation. Sadly, they blew that chance, and their new Sith Emperor will reform their order a bit more dramatically.

I'm looking forward to Episode III. I'm ready for all the Jedi to die...

You are a Dork!!!!!!!!

You are a Dork!!!!!!!!
Who's the one who entered this thread just to call someone a dork? If you're not a dork yourself, why do you have so much time on your hands?

The Jedi aren't nearly as much of a problem as the political structure of the Republic is. Apparently, the republic was designed to be make everyone happy in the least effective way possible. It is more of a Confederation with each of its members having an absurd amount of autonomy.

Naboo as an Army. The Trade Federation has an army. Every member state has an army but the Republic does not. At least the Empire fixed that.

Also there doesn't seem to be any Republic laws governing interactions between member states. Making it illegal for one member state to invade another required an unprecidented change in Senate leadership for crying out loud.

One must ask how the Republic gets anything done when tens of thousands of members with differing opinions and interests each get a vote. The only people who ever accomplished anything did so by by passing the Senate alltogether.


The Empire wasn't much better. It relied too much on blowing up rebel planets and didn't really do anything to centralize power other than create an absurdly large army.

Now the Ahb, they knew how to create a functional interstellar government. Simply force all member worlds to become heredity monarchies, adopt the leaders of conquered worlds into the Ahb Royal Family, and give their heirs an Ahb education. This results in local governments that share the ideals of the central government and are accountable to the central government. Insted of fighting a bloody civil war if push comes to shove the central government can just replace a rouge Duke.

Hmmm, interesting points in both ways. At least in regards to governing structures for interstellar empires/federations/whatever. But is an Imperium the only way to go about it along with a feudalistic adoption of aristocrats (fiefdoms being planets) into the imperial family?

Interesting to think about. What would be a suitable means of creating a government that can control multiple star systems without collapsing due to conflicting interests? I'm assuming that democracy wouldn't work due to the fact that the seperation of planetary culture issue would stagnate the whole process.

Bottom line. What would work?

One thing to mention - however dumb the Jedi may have been, the bad guys are worse (except Palpatine, who's really damn smart/able to get what they want).

They all get manipulated by Palpatine, manhandled by the Jedi/Republic army, and can't seem to hit anything with their myriad cool-looking weapons.

By the way, the Jedi/Republic system, waaay better than the Imperial system in terms of controlling the galaxy.

Comparatively:
The Republic lasted for thousands of years. The Empire as a Galactic organization lasted for barely more than 20.

The Republic was able to almost totally keep peace with only the intimdating powers of the Jedi as an army. The Empire couldn't stop a rag-tag rebellion with the only active Force wielders and the most powerful army in the history of the Galaxy.

The Republic had a monopoly on the most advanced technology. The Empire was stupid enough to allow the top starship company's (Incom) designers to defect to the Rebellion and supply them the best-designed fighter in Galactic history, the X-Wing.

The Jedi were so powerful as individuals, and their status quo position was so strong, that they felt no need to change anything. They could intimidate any enemy almost into defeat, had an incredibly low casualty rate, and found Force wielders relatively easily without reproducing. In fact, the only time a Jedi took a spouse in recent history, that spouse ended up resulting in their turning to the Dark Side. The Jedi, like the military, have good reasons for not allowing coupling.

Yes, I watched Episodes I and II this week. I'm ready for all the Jedi to die.

Oh, I'd seen them before. I just watched them again to prep for Ep. III. The third movie promises to be a lot of fun, and it'll only be better for having fully steeped myself in the first two.

(Yes, it was painful watching Jar-jar again. Yes, I cringed again at both the immaculate conception and the mitichlorians. Yes, Hayden Christensen still acts like a wooden mannikin. Yes, mannikin rhymes with Anakin.)

Consider:

1) The Jedi are emotional cripples. They can't marry or have families, but are somehow expected to be role models and peacekeepers in galactic society. This principle of leadership through societal aloofness scales poorly, is demonstrably ineffective when compared to simple patriarchal/matriarchal orders (apologies to my Catholic friends), and we see its weaknesses demonstrated not only in the real world, but also in the Lucasverse where Anakin and Padme lie in an effort to have both Jedi power and family love. Those lies are just one more bolt in the coffin-armor of the rising Lord Vader.

2) The Jedi are institutionally stupid. For all their ability to see the future and sense the flow of current events through the power of the force, they still can't believe that a Jedi would tamper with the archives and betray his fellow Knights. Dooku/Tyrannus has been playing them for ten years, and even though Mace Windu knows Dooku to be the leader of the separatists, he just can't believe (until shown) that Dooku would resort to violence.

3) The Jedi fight like idiots. Perhaps, in the noble, royal heritage from which their now sadly corrupt and fallen order sprang, (PERHAPS) it made sense for great warriors to travel solo or in pairs, keeping the peace simply by being shining examples of nobility. In the down-and-dirty of the modern Galactic Republic, though, you need to be able to employ squad tactics, with the full panoply of principles like "rate of fire," "flanking," and "fallback positions." Want to kill a Jedi? Roll a couple of droideka up to him/her, and start blasting. Jedi aren't smart enough to carry shield-penetrating ranged weapons, and that "force push" trick only seems to work for a few of them.

Upshot... the Jedi Order in the last days of the Republic is a corrupt and ineffective warrior caste that NEEDS to be swept away. If they'd managed things correctly, perhaps Anakin could have brought balance to the force by quietly usurping power in the Jedi Council and instituting the Jedi Reformation. Sadly, they blew that chance, and their new Sith Emperor will reform their order a bit more dramatically.

I'm looking forward to Episode III. I'm ready for all the Jedi to die...
Die Bart, Die ... it's German for "The Bart, The." - Sideshow Bob (whose archnemesis is the rake)

Now the Ahb, they knew how to create a functional interstellar government. Simply force all member worlds to become heredity monarchies, adopt the leaders of conquered worlds into the Ahb Royal Family, and give their heirs an Ahb education. This results in local governments that share the ideals of the central government and are accountable to the central government. Insted of fighting a bloody civil war if push comes to shove the central government can just replace a rouge Duke.Don't forget, the subject worlds also has to give up all stellar travel. All Space travel is handled by the Ahb. Thus if your company needs transportation, they have to "lease" a ship and crew from the Government.

"Darth Vader Strikes Back"

There's going to be an extra scene included in the DVD release of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK coming up next year! Basically, it expands on the scene where Vader reveals his fatherhood to Luke, and ties up some loose ends created with the release of Episode 1 & 2...

The Empire Strikes Back: Extra-Special Edition

INT: BESPIN GANTRY - MOMENTS LATER:

A furious lightsaber duel is underway. DARTH VADER is backing LUKE SKYWALKER towards the end of the gantry. A quick move by Vader, chops off Luke's hand! It goes spinning off into the ventilation shaft. Luke backs away. He looks around, but realizes there's nowhere to go but straight down.
Darth Vader: Obi Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Darth Vader: No... I am your father!
Luke: No, it's not true! It's impossible.
Darth Vader: Search your feelings... you know it to be true.
Luke: NO!
Darth Vader: Yes, it is true, and you know what else? You know that brass droid of yours?
Luke: Threepio?
Darth Vader: Yes... Threepio... I built him... when I was 7 years old...
Luke: No...!
Darth Vader: Seven years old! And what have you done? Look at yourself, no hand, no job, and couldn't even levitate your own ship out of the swamp.
Luke: I destroyed your precious Death Star!
Darth Vader: When you were 20! When I was 10, I single-handedly destroyed a Trade Federation Droid Control ship!
Luke: Well, it's not my fault...
Darth Vader: Oh, here we go... "Poor me... my father never gave me what I wanted for my birthday... boo hoo, my daddy's the Dark Lord of the Sith...waahhh wahhh!"
Luke: Shut up...
Darth Vader: You're a slacker! By the time I was your age, I had exterminated the Jedi knights!
Luke: I used to race my T-16 through Beggar's Canyon.
Darth Vader: Oh, for the love of the Emperor... 10 years old, winner of the Boonta Eve Open... Only human to ever fly a Pod Racer... right here, baby!
{Luke looks down the shaft. Takes a step towards it.}
Darth Vader: I was wrong... You're not my kid... I don't know whose son you are, but you sure ain't mine...
{Luke takes a step off the platform, hesitates, then plunges down the shaft.}
{Darth Vader looks after him.}
Darth Vader: Get a haircut! ROFL!!! I haven't read something that funny in a long time! :p

I like the jedi.
I was really disappointed in Ep. III
The Dialogue was, well, crap.
and it should have been like 2 hrs longer, thus makin it 4 hrs.
Overall i still loved it.
For those who have seen here is a funny, yet wierd line: "Well, in my opinion the Jedi are evil..."
I thought that was funny.. :D
I hope that Lcas makes a remake of this video, et I know it will never happen.
May the Force be with you.

Y'know, all fine points and all (and I could care less about the argument n general)
But it's interesting to note that Vastiva takes, without crediting where he got it, the bulk of his thread launching text from www.schlockmercenary.com without giving any credit to the actual author, Howard Taylor.

I mean, give some credit, you hack.

...
Both came from a Marginalized Minority.
...
The jew's were hardly a Marginalized minority in ancient Israel.

Vastiva, that was an insightful and well-written post you started the thread with. However, Howard Taylor, the person who actually wrote it, doesn't really appreciate being plagiarised in such a way, and has requested in his LiveJournal {the same one that he posted his thoughts on the Jedi in on the 9th of May} that someone posts and points out that particular fact.

Relevant links are

http://www.livejournal.com/users/howardtayler/96186.html - The quoted entry

and

http://www.livejournal.com/users/howardtayler/97831.html - Reaction to your quoting of the entire essay without mention of the source.



Quoting mr. Taylor:

"While it's nice that someone would agree with me to the point that they adopt my position word-for-word, I cannot, as a professional writer, allow my work to be plagiarized in this manner. Sure, you're all welcome to copy my stuff into your own stuff -- you just need to attribute it to me. It's okay for the occasional snippet ("I'd punch you, but I don't want to get any stupid on my hands") to enter the vernacular without me getting credit, but an entire essay is a little much."


Credit where credit is due, please.

Regards,

Quinch

There was supposed to be a clicky-link in the opening line, but it didn't show up when I reposted from wordpad.

That error has been fixed, upon it's being brought to my attention. Mea Culpa, mesa sorry, and has anyone got Howard's email available to send an apology to him about this?

I heard that Episode 3 is a metaphor of the bush admin (america being a republic)
So i guess that means Jedi are democrats
hahahaha

So I was fucking this guy up the ass and he turns around and grabs my balls. So i was like "Dude, are you gay?"

Fuck Star Wars, go watch "Dune". That's a real movie, it doesn't have a bunch a faggots in stupid costumes, and their weapons are hella cooler.

Yeah

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I was fucking this guy up the ass and he turns around and grabs my balls. So i was like "Dude, are you gay?"

Fuck Star Wars, go watch "Dune". That's a real movie, it doesn't have a bunch a faggots in stupid costumes, and their weapons are hella cooler. And hello to you too sir!

Star Wars has awesome weapons, and a huge variety.
:gundge:

(the following comes from Howard Taylors WebBlog (http://www.livejournal.com/users/howardtayler/96186.html) )


This, of course, sets up Anakin bringing balance to the Force as a true prophecy, but one that didn't have to be such a tragedy, if only the Jedi had understood . . . .

Nah, screw it, KILL THE JEDI!

Balance is impartial
Start of Episode 1 1000's of Jedi, 2 Sith
Start of Episode 4 2 Jedi, 2 Sith
Balance Achieved

However the hypothetical situation involving the emotion-embracing Jedi is an interesting idea, but the destruction of the Jedi Order by Darth Vader was necessary for 4-6
What would have been interesting is an variant of KOTOR I story, where the discovered something dark that corrupt two jedi, and then they take over and destroy all others