NationStates Jolt Archive

There are evangelists who go around and shove Christianity down you're throat, and that's wrong. However, that doesn't give atheists or members of religions the right to start attacking Christians. This really pissed me off today:

Oh, wait, I forgot you were a christian. Admitting you were wrong is beyond you.


That's ridiculous. I've never forced my religion down anyone's throat, and thats the kind of bullshit I'm given? I believe nice atheists will go to Heaven if it exists, but people like that won't be going.

And I'm not saying all atheists are like that, I'm just saying there are atheists who are equivalent to the evangelists of Christianity.

[/rant]

I think if people got into heaven based on whether they ever said something rude to someone, heaven's population would equal zero whether it even existed or not.

Sure you can be rude a few times, but that guy is obviously bigoted and prejudiced.

I guess, but so is everybody. I don't think if there were places like heaven, people could just go arbitrarily deciding the criteria for getting in, especially based as this is along pretty localized and modern standards of behavioral appropo.

Alright then. I'm really not trying to argue about Heaven and Hell, but just saying that bigotry needs to stop on both sides.

Sure you can be rude a few times, but that guy is obviously bigoted and prejudiced.
I guess those who follow the Bible aren't going to heaven either, because there are quite a few prejudices and bigotries in there.

I think if people got into heaven based on whether they ever said something rude to someone, heaven's population would equal zero whether it even existed or not.

According to South Park: BLU, heaven's population is 1,656.

I guess those who follow the Bible aren't going to heaven either, because there are quite a few prejudices and bigotries in there.
Not necessarily - love the sinner, hate the sin. There shouldn't be any prejudice from Christians (including same-sex marriage, which I'm neutral on). Unfortunately that's not the case.

If any Christian can feel comfortable attacking anyone based on their religious views, don't be surprised if other people feel comfortable attacking any Christian based on those same views.

The complicated answer is the *real* Christians aren't doing their part shouting down the Falwells, so they're going to get lumped in with them. Tough luck, should have taken your religion's image back from the crazies before they stepped into the limelight.

So now it is our fault? What do you expect us to do, shoot all the fundamentalists? If that's the case then an atheist needs to apologize for the statement directed towards me. The other side just needs to recognize that evangelists aren't the majority.

So now it is our fault? What do you expect us to do, shoot all the fundamentalists? If that's the case then an atheist needs to apologize for the statement directed towards me. The other side just needs to recognize that evangelists aren't the majority.
I'll be happy if someone pulls a burried in the endzone of giants stadium to falwell.

..... but just saying that bigotry needs to stop on both sides.

I agree, shoving a Lack of belief down Your throat, is absouloutly just as wrong as sombody forcing their beliefs upon anyone else. Saying "oh you don't listen because of ____" simply closes dialog. usually this is because they want to "get the last word".Too competative perhaps? Either way, I don't think its the beliefs that are the problem, its just the way its presented, and, on occasion, how that belief is backed by individuals.
I don't think all Atheists are idiots, simply because they are A-theists (those without theisim) any more than all Christians are either. Definatly both parties have individuals who do not best exemplify their beliefs. Ignore them, they only live 70 or so years :)

If Christians were even out in ANY meaningful presence ripping the Falwell's a new one, this wouldn't even be an issue. By the act of dissent they'd distinguish themselves. And so by your silent agreement have you allied yourself. He was prejudiced. He was correct in his guess. You have his opinion of your position, and the image of your whole religion. The question is, are you moved to change it? I doubt it.

Granted, atheists can be just as stupid as theists.

It's just less common:-)

If Christians were even out in ANY meaningful presence ripping the Falwell's a new one, this wouldn't even be an issue. By the act of dissent they'd distinguish themselves. And so by your silent agreement have you allied yourself. He was prejudiced. He was correct in his guess. You have his opinion of your position, and the image of your whole religion. The question is, are you moved to change it? I doubt it.

The problem here is do you know anything about the other poster. You just made a judgment against someone you dont even know on beliefs they may or may not have.

I think we spend too much time thinking about being loving and kind and turning the other cheek. We think people will accept us as "the nice guys." But maybe we Christians have been disillusioned by the idyllic message of the imagined hippies of the sixties, "peace and love," and all that.

32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e]

37"Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

40"He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. 41Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. 42And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is my disciple, I tell you the truth, he will certainly not lose his reward."


Apparently, we've forgotten that people were going to hate us for it...

There are evangelists who go around and shove Christianity down you're throat, and that's wrong. However, that doesn't give atheists or members of religions the right to start attacking Christians. This really pissed me off today:



That's ridiculous. I've never forced my religion down anyone's throat, and thats the kind of bullshit I'm given? I believe nice atheists will go to Heaven if it exists, but people like that won't be going.

And I'm not saying all atheists are like that, I'm just saying there are atheists who are equivalent to the evangelists of Christianity.

[/rant]
You are Christian and believe nice atheists go to heaven? And here I thought one of the tenants was salvation by faith not works

You are Christian and believe nice atheists go to heaven? And here I thought one of the tenants was salvation by faith not works

Exactly. As much of a good motive this guy had for making the thread, he doesn't have it all together.

I'm a Christian too, but dude...you're not going to stop people's annoying comments. They're gonna be rude.

That is why we have this emoticon: :sniper:

We've all felt wronged and insulted before. Sometimes in the most unusual ways. Man, do I have some stories about that.

I was taking part in the 2000 census, when a little old lady with thousands of knick-knacks and baubles all over her trailer home answered the door with, "Well, you look like a nice young Aryan boy!"

...I was almost totally at a loss for words through most of that conversation. She was so nice about her racism, bigotry and such, that she seemed like a harmless old lady. But she was sooooo bigoted that it was making me rather angry, always finding ways to talk down about her hispanic neighbors mentioning that she made more money than all the blacks in her neighborhood, (she used her own, less printable terms for those ethnic groups, if you couldn't guess) etc.

I never once let my increasing dismay show, as I was on-duty, but I must say I was rather insulted. It was just earlier that year when I was working a different job, this one at a video game store.

In it I was in charge of buying as well as selling games. There had been a rash of people stealing games from major retailers and selling them to our stores for quick cash, we were in the process of instituting new security measurse, but until then we were just supposed to be wary.

One guy brought in 5 games, complete with store stickers and security tags still one them. It was just blatant, he had just lifted the games and was trying to score quick money. I was alone in the store, so it was my call; I told him I couldn't accept them because we had too many copies of the games (also true, they were brand new games, we had dozens).

His reaction was violent. He screamed at me, "You F*cking Jew!" and shook his fist at me and stomped around the store, knocking over a display before gathering his stolen goods and running out. The people in the neighboring store came over to ask me if I was okay, asking me if I wanted to call the cops.

I was shaking, though from rage or fear I cannot tell. I didn't need to call the cops on him, I just cleaned up the display and took a 15 minute break to settle my nerves. From what I saw, he knocked over the display on accident, not out of anger, so I didn't really think of it as vandalism.

He could have attacked me, he looked about ready to, and I was much smaller back then, so he might have been a threat. But I was really mad about that he thought being Jewish was somehow an insult; I'm not even Jewish myself, but some of my relatives were...so it felt like he had insulted my family.

That was back when I was only 16. I didn't know about many of the stigmas against Jews, so I didn't understand what he meant when he said what he did. Doesn't make it any less offensive, but I was young and naive and was at a loss. I didn't understand his hatred, nor why he acted so violently.

The comment that Atheist made (if they indeed were an Atheist), seemed similar. Someone expressing themself in a profoundly insulting way. Perhaps out of anger that needed release, perhaps simply being raised in such a way that they thought those things were actually part of a group's inherant character.

There are evangelists who go around and shove Christianity down you're throat, and that's wrong. However, that doesn't give atheists or members of religions the right to start attacking Christians. This really pissed me off today:



That's ridiculous. I've never forced my religion down anyone's throat, and thats the kind of bullshit I'm given? I believe nice atheists will go to Heaven if it exists, but people like that won't be going.

And I'm not saying all atheists are like that, I'm just saying there are atheists who are equivalent to the evangelists of Christianity.

[/rant]

Atheists have every right to attack christians, and christianity. We cant say certain things, do to server rules, but we can attack you all we want, as long as we follow the rules.

I feel the atheists who give a bad name to the group are those who have little conviction. If you arent willing to stand up for your belief, then be an agnostic, diest, or other. You dont have to attack christians, but certainly dont just bow down and take anything they say without rebutting. Again, have conviction. Have faith.

Atheists have every right to attack christians, and christianity. We cant say certain things, do to server rules, but we can attack you all we want, as long as we follow the rules.

I feel the atheists who give a bad name to the group are those who have little conviction. If you arent willing to stand up for your belief, then be an agnostic, diest, or other. You dont have to attack christians, but certainly dont just bow down and take anything they say without rebutting. Again, have conviction. Have faith.
You can be an agnostic with just as much conviction in the fact that you dont think it is proovable one way or another :p agnostic just explains the belief that you dont think it is possible to prove one way or another
there can be just as much conviction in that beleif as any other

There are evangelists who go around and shove Christianity down you're throat, and that's wrong. However, that doesn't give atheists or members of religions the right to start attacking Christians. This really pissed me off today:



That's ridiculous. I've never forced my religion down anyone's throat, and thats the kind of bullshit I'm given? I believe nice atheists will go to Heaven if it exists, but people like that won't be going.

And I'm not saying all atheists are like that, I'm just saying there are atheists who are equivalent to the evangelists of Christianity.

[/rant]

Even if you have never knocked on anyones door at 7:00 am, you probably agree with the idea that the Government of this country should be far more secular, and that abortion should be made wrong becuase its against God's will, or maybe even that Terry Sciavo should still be alive today, and that the laws should reflect your religious beliefs.

Except that....your beliefs, are not my beliefs, and the laws of the country should support BOTH of our ideals.

Christians today would like to have their religion take political precedence over all other lines of thinking...wich is evil.

You can be an agnostic with just as much conviction in the fact that you dont think it is proovable one way or another :p agnostic just explains the belief that you dont think it is possible to prove one way or another
there can be just as much conviction in that beleif as any other

I meant convinction that there is no god.

The problem here is do you know anything about the other poster. You just made a judgment against someone you dont even know on beliefs they may or may not have.
He wrote a little but he said a lot. He thinks evangelism, even in its odious form, while regretable, isn't his problem. Guess what, he was wrong. He was told he was wrong, and that's what he objects to. Not the darker face that's been put on his religion, nor the people that did the putting. It's not like he even disavowed the connection. He acknowledged it specifically; he knew he must to be credible as a moderate voice. With all that, why shouldn't it have been put, at least partially, in his lap.

That said, WoTC clan ain't nothing to mess with. Holla.

Just blame Bush its the easiest thing to do,

Even if you have never knocked on anyones door at 7:00 am, you probably agree with the idea that the Government of this country should be far more secular, and that abortion should be made wrong becuase its against God's will, or maybe even that Terry Sciavo should still be alive today, and that the laws should reflect your religious beliefs.

Except that....your beliefs, are not my beliefs, and the laws of the country should support BOTH of our ideals.

Christians today would like to have their religion take political precedence over all other lines of thinking...wich is evil.
Well I have to say, I find this more HIGHLY offensive than anything else I've read in awhile, in terms of this Christian crap.

It seems to me that in an effort to make a point that their beliefs are so widely "different", Backwoods has once again lumped Christians all into the same political and religious belief category, which a lot of people seem to enjoy doing. Newsflash: I'm an IRISH CATHOLIC, from the cradle to the grave, and I don't believe a single word of the bullshit you just said. Does that make me less Christian? No, it makes me a liberal, and I'm definitely not the only one. Though I admit many are, not all Christians are a bunch of uber-Conservative assholes who are going to turn a blind eye to the "separation of Church and State" issue. Not all of them are going to say non-Christians are wrong in any way, especially not me (which doesn't necessarily mean I think you're right, it just means I respect most people enough, most of the time, to not argue with them about beliefs that they have every right to).

If you want to make outrageously bogus claims, no doubt KNOWING you'd radically offend someone, that's fine, but that makes you a total ass in my opinion, moreso than any atheist or non-Christian, or even the Christians whose beliefs are counter to mine, that I've ever experienced. However, if you want to do a little research and BACK UP your claim that all Christians believe those things, which you obviously can't do, then I'd find a way to muster acceptance and assume I was one of an unspoken counter-current.

Real Christianity has no political beliefs. Radical Christianity IS a political belief.

There are evangelists who go around and shove Christianity down you're throat, and that's wrong. However, that doesn't give atheists or members of religions the right to start attacking Christians. This really pissed me off today:



That's ridiculous. I've never forced my religion down anyone's throat, and thats the kind of bullshit I'm given? I believe nice atheists will go to Heaven if it exists, but people like that won't be going.

And I'm not saying all atheists are like that, I'm just saying there are atheists who are equivalent to the evangelists of Christianity.

[/rant]

I went to school with a few Atheists like that. Fortuantely, most of them grew out of it, and realised it was better to leave Christians alone (unless they start something).

[QUOTE=Chellis]Atheists have every right to attack christians, and christianity. We cant say certain things, do to server rules, but we can attack you all we want, as long as we follow the rules.

QUOTE]

The question shouldn't be whether they *can* but whether they *should*. Forget about the rules, think about morality. It just isn't nice to attack some because of their religion.

Well I'm an atheist but I never have been that rude to someone in an issue on religion. If you want to change someone's opinion debate it in a...maybe civilized manner (depends on who you're debating with). But this person has no respect at all for other people's religious beliefs.

You see, the world has an asshole quotient. In any sampling of the population, you will find a number of assholes. Atheists are a sampling of the population, therefore you're going to get some pricks.

Granted, atheists can be just as stupid as theists.

It's just less common:-)

You're kidding right? The atheist response to any Christian rebuttal: Remember the Crusades and the Inquisition!!!

Atheists have every right to attack christians, and christianity. We cant say certain things, do to server rules, but we can attack you all we want, as long as we follow the rules.



The question shouldn't be whether they *can* but whether they *should*. Forget about the rules, think about morality. It just isn't nice to attack some because of their religion.

Well, i have no morals, so that makes it easier for me.

Well, i have no morals, so that makes it easier for me.

And Athiests wonder why Christians get rude with them.

Atheists have every right to attack christians, and christianity. We cant say certain things, do to server rules, but we can attack you all we want, as long as we follow the rules.

I feel the atheists who give a bad name to the group are those who have little conviction. If you arent willing to stand up for your belief, then be an agnostic, diest, or other. You dont have to attack christians, but certainly dont just bow down and take anything they say without rebutting. Again, have conviction. Have faith.

I'm not sure you really understand what your terminology means...?

Atheists come in two types... those with conviction (that there is NO god, the Explicit Atheists), and those without conviction (those who just don't believe there are any god - the Implicit Atheists).

Agnostics may be Atheistic OR they may have a god that they believe in... Agnostic doesn't have any relevence to believing in god or not - just what your opinion is on "if it is possible to know if there is a god".

You are Christian and believe nice atheists go to heaven? And here I thought one of the tenants was salvation by faith not works

It is by faith. I'm not sure what's up with this guy.

And Athiests wonder why Christians get rude with them.

Most atheists dont share my beliefs.

But ignorant people get angry easily, from my experiences. And the christians i know...

I'm not sure you really understand what your terminology means...?

Atheists come in two types... those with conviction (that there is NO god, the Explicit Atheists), and those without conviction (those who just don't believe there are any god - the Implicit Atheists).

Agnostics may be Atheistic OR they may have a god that they believe in... Agnostic doesn't have any relevence to believing in god or not - just what your opinion is on "if it is possible to know if there is a god".

I know the terminology. Im an Antitheist, but saying atheist is just easier. I feel anyone below antitheist doesn't have enough conviction, including agnostics.

You're kidding right? The atheist response to any Christian rebuttal: Remember the Crusades and the Inquisition!!!

I wish this had happened to me!

I've never had a christian actually managed to rebut an argument yet, except through the last resort of quoting some random verse (usually out of context), from the bible... as though it were a reliable source.

I know the terminology. Im an Antitheist, but saying atheist is just easier. I feel anyone below antitheist doesn't have enough conviction, including agnostics.
You are still misusing the term Agnostic...

An Agnostic could be an Antitheist, or a Theist of any denomination.

All Agnostic means is a lack of sureness about whether god can be PROVED to exist... that doesn't stop you believing either way DESPITE that uncertainty.

You are an Explicit Atheist - if you believe that there certainly is NO GOD.

Personally, I don't think there is enough evidence to back that claim... so, you are relying on faith just as much as the Christian or the Muslim.

I lack belief in any gods... but, since I cannot PROVE they are non-existent, there is no solid foundation for me to claim they DON'T exist.

Thus, I am an Implicit Atheist... which you take to mean I lack conviction, and I think means I have followed the only rational path in my circumstances.

Most atheists dont share my beliefs.

But ignorant people get angry easily, from my experiences. And the christians i know...

Makes no sense why they would get angry.

You are still misusing the term Agnostic...

An Agnostic could be an Antitheist, or a Theist of any denomination.

All Agnostic means is a lack of sureness about whether god can be PROVED to exist... that doesn't stop you believing either way DESPITE that uncertainty.

You are an Explicit Atheist - if you believe that there certainly is NO GOD.

Personally, I don't think there is enough evidence to back that claim... so, you are relying on faith just as much as the Christian or the Muslim.

I lack belief in any gods... but, since I cannot PROVE they are non-existent, there is no solid foundation for me to claim they DON'T exist.

Thus, I am an Implicit Atheist... which you take to mean I lack conviction, and I think means I have followed the only rational path in my circumstances.

No, there could not be an antitheist agnostic. An antitheist believes(knows, im my case) there is no god. An agnostic believes you cannot know whether or not there is a god. Its a contradiction.

My point was, agnostics arent heavily antitheistic. They were just an example of people with less conviction that there is no god, than people like me.

Makes no sense why they would get angry.

Ignorant people who have their beliefs challanged get angry.

No, there could not be an antitheist agnostic. An antitheist believes(knows, im my case) there is no god. An agnostic believes you cannot know whether or not there is a god. Its a contradiction.

My point was, agnostics arent heavily antitheistic. They were just an example of people with less conviction that there is no god, than people like me.

You are still wrong, my friend:

The Agnostic effectively believes it is impossible to know the NATURE of god... thus, to be SURE whether a god MIGHT exist or not... this doesn not mean they suspend judgement on that existence... only on the logical possibility of CERTAINTY:

Effectively, the Agnostic Explicit Athiest would be saying "I believe there is NO GOD, but there is no way to PROVE it":

"Properly considered, agnosticism is not a third alternative to theism and atheism because it is concerned with a different aspect of religious belief. Theism and atheism refer to the presence or absence of belief in a god; agnosticism refers to the impossibility of knowledge with regard to a god or supernatural being.

The term "agnostic" does not, in itself, indicate whether or not one believes in a god. Agnosticism can be either theistic or atheistic". (Bold added by me).

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/smith.htm

You are still wrong, my friend:

The Agnostic effectively believes it is impossible to know the NATURE of god... thus, to be SURE whether a god MIGHT exist or not... this doesn not mean they suspend judgement on that existence... only on the logical possibility of CERTAINTY:

Effectively, the Agnostic Explicit Athiest would be saying "I believe there is NO GOD, but there is no way to PROVE it":

(Bold added by me).

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/smith.htm

You arent understanding why I said what I said. An agnostic antitheist would still have less conviction than I. That was my whole point. In my mind, there is no god. An agnostic believes that this cannot be proven. Im my mind, its fact. Just as many christians know for a fact there is a god. My whole issue was with conviction.

My lord, you are semantic.