NationStates Jolt Archive

....and totally redeems himself!

WARNING: MASSIVE STAR WARS EPISODE III SPOILERS!

Yes, it is official, the new movie ROCKS! It's fantastic, excellent, stupendous, fabulous, wonderful, amazing, it is actually worthy of the name Star Wars! The acting is superb, the plot is wonderful, the fights are breath-taking, and (best of all) Jar Jar doesn't have one single line! This movie actually measures up to the Original Trilogy, and for those of you who've read any of my posts you know how highly I regard those. Now, I'm not going to deny it, there were some scenes which I think could have (and should have) been done better (I'll go into great detail with them later) but they are few and easily passed over, and the rest of the movie more than makes up for it. This movie was AWESOME!

Bail Organa, Viceroy of Alderaan and adoptive father of Princess Leia Organa, is finally given a prime role in one of the Star Wars productions instead of just being mentioned in passing. You see Captain Antilles, the first man ever killed by Darth Vader in the original Star Wars, you witness the Death Star under construction, and even saw (possibly) Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin in the prime of his life (The character never speaks or is spoken to, I assume he is Tarkin due to the physical resemblance). The Declaration of the Empire is revealed to the fans, we see the birth of the Skywalker Twins (And finally have proof that Luke is the older twin), and (What I've been waiting for since I first heard the Prequels were in production) we see the ultimate battle between Darth Vader and Obi-Wan Kenobi, where the former Jedi is scarred and forced to don his unforgettable black helmet and cape. Then, at the very end, we find a Star Wars Fanatics wet dream: We actually see Alderaan. Alderaan, first victim of the Death Star, supporter of the rebellion, one of the Galaxies most important planets. The Holy Grail of the Star Wars Universe, we see its surface, we see plants and animals. I tell you, I nearly pissed myself.

Unfortunately, nothing can be perfect. There were a few badly done scenes, thankfully they were very few and easily forgiven. The first was the Jedi's attempted arrest of Chancellor Palpatine. Three Knights and one Master go to arrest him, bearing lightsabers as they enter. Palpatine, refusing to submit, launches an assult after finally dropping his cloak of innocence. Two of the Knights are struck down immediately without a fight. I mean literally without a fight. They first two didn't make the tiniest move to defend themselves, they just stood there and were cut down. The third Knight did fight for a bit before he was killed and, though I do think he was killed to easily, that wasn't so bad. But seriously, since when do people just stand there and wait to die? It's minor but it irks me.

The second badly done thing comes a few minutes later and is of greater importance. Mace Windu, Jedi Master and Lightsaber Duelist unrivaled in the Galaxy, is the sole survivor of the four Jedi sent to arrest Palpatine. He has lived where the three Knights fell and has subdued Palpatine, defeating him and disarming the Chancellor. Palpatine lies on the floor, Anakin Skywalker has shown up and is pleading with Windu to spare Palpatine (Palpatine has approached Skywalker with the promise of teaching him the very secret of life and learning how to keep his loved ones alive when otherwise they would have died), and Windu is clearly conflicted. The Jedi Code forbids killing a defeated and unarmed person, no matter how great their crimes. But he couldn't simply place Palpatine under arrest, the man had both the Senate and the Courts in his pockets and wouldn't have even gotten a slap on the wrist if taken to trial for his horrendous crimes. He was to powerful and dangerous to let escape. Fortunately, Windu doesn't need to make the decision, for Palpatine launches another attack, this one of the Force rather than through conventional Lightsaber. Force Lightning, familiar from Return of the Jedi, stabs at Windu who blocks with his Saber and begins to force the power back upon its Master, striking Palpatine with his own Lightning. Palpatine shrieks and begins to be deformed by the Lightning, skin cracking and twisting and whatnot. Skywalker, fearful that Palpatine would die and with him the only way Anakin could save Padme from death, attacked and cut off Windus hand (Okay, I love Star Wars, but Lucas is a bit obsessed with people losing their hands. It happens way to often). None of this is the bad part yet. What is the badly done part is when Palpatine then rises, looking exactly as he does in the Original Trilogy (As if he's a hundred years old all wrinkled and feebled and whatnot) and the cause of that being the damage he suffered in his battle with Windu. Now, in the Expanded Universe (The Non-Canon novels, video games, role-playing games, comic books, etc.) it was always alluded to (Though never expressely stated) that Palpatine was so old and death-like in his appearance because of his exposure to the Dark Side. That he has used it for so long that it had consumed him, the Dark Side had obsorbed his very life and feasted on his body. His body had decayed over time as he went deeper into the Force, gradually emerging as the old weakling who needs a walking stick while still able to kill you with the mere gesture of a pinky. That method of his bodies destruction, rather than merely the result a violent battle which lasted a bare few minutes, in my opinion better illustrates the the nature of the Dark Side, its corrutpion and evilness and the way nobody, not even Dark Jedi, is ever its Master, it only corrupts and destroys. Essentially: Dark Side = Bad. I think that Lucas kinda took a shortcut here, having it be bang your old and deformed right now instead of leaving it for the viewer to assume happened in the time between the Prequels and the Original Trilogy.

Next we get to Anakin Skywalkers transformation to Darth Vader. It's just after the Palpatine/Windu battle and Palpatine tells Anakin to kneel. Anakin kneels, Palpatine says "Now you'll be called Darth Vader" and that's it. That's it. I expected some kind of grand event, some transfer of power or energy, at least some reason for why he picked the name. But no, he seemed to pull 'Vader' out of thin air with no rhyme or reason and plops it on Anakin without even giving a reason for why he needs his name changed. I mean this is a massive event, the death of Skywalker and the birth of Vader, the Beginning of the End of the Jedi Order, and Lucas brushes past it in less than a minute. More was needed.

Finally, the death of the Jedi. This was actually done much better than I expected, but it still didn't quite do it. The ways the Jedi were killed did make sense, overwhelming firepower and exponentially superior numbers with many soldiers dying before individual Jedi fell instead of the casualty free slaughter I thought they'd go with, but I think it conveyed the wrong idea. It seemed to say "Ten minutes gone, all Jedi dead." There was a fealing of finality to it, it seemed to say that no Jedi survived other than the ones shown surviving (Kenobi, Yoda, and Anakin). Now I'm not saying that Palpatine didn't hunt down and kill all the Jedi, that's clear even in the Trilogy, but it should have taken much more than half an hour (No, they don't say half an hour, but it's a short period of time that would fit with what we see). A long campaign, searching out Jedi in hiding, hunting down stragglers, etc. It seemed to open and shut.

But, even with those four errors, this movie was still phenominal. I'm talking really really good. See it. Right now. Then see it again. It is that good.

Lucas has done it again.

i had given up hope and only went because its my sons birthday and welll hell ive seen the other 5

but he really did it. he actually made a good movie.

So, like many of those with nothing better to do on a Wednesday night than wait in a line that stretched somewhere into oblivion in order to receive tickets purchased two months in advance that would allow me to wait in another, longer line that stretched out so far it was changing traffic patterns on nearby streets, I went to see the midnight, first public viewing of the end of the Star Wars epic.

The tickets purchased, the ridiculous concession prices, the line so long it made Hands Across America look like a couple holding hands, surrounded by people with nothing better to spend their money on than professionally tailored costumes... Was it worth it?

My night started in line, of course, where my friends and I stood and passed comments about how many of those under the authentic costumes were virgins, listening to a radio broadcast of the Yankee/Mariner game and hoping against hope that we may actually get to sit in the theater sometime before rigamortis began to set in.

A brief three hours later we were in another line, with yet more virgins hidden behind Darth Vader masks and wielding lightsabers. When an entire ballgame comes and goes while you're still in line for a movie you had already purchased tickets to, you begin to find alternate means of entertainment. In this case it was mostly more sharp barbs directed at those with costumes, and now we had resorted to even worse criticism of those who had decided not to dress in costumes, only because we were quickly running out of insults. Estragon and Vladimir had nothing on us.

Unlike Godot, however, the movie did eventually come to us. We waited through an exhaustive three previews, a hushed silence as the crowd sat on eggshells. Suddenly, the drum roll, a thunderous applause from the audience as we waited... A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

Now, was it worth the wait, the hype, the spectacular fuss over what will likely be the highest grossing movie of all time? My answer would really hinge on a simple question; Are you a true Star Wars fan?

If you have been waiting with baited breath for the final installment of George Lucus' stunning epic, if you understand, truly understand the films in their proper context, then you will understand the metaphors, the hidden meanings, the spiritual context, the emotion, the power that only this movie could represent, then you will be thankful you gave a day of your life up to see this thrilling final installment of the greatest movie franchise ever conceived.

If, however, you are a less than casual fan, if you are just out for a good time without really being able to feel the presence of the movie, it will likely be an above-average movie, filled mostly with very nice special effects.

Let's face it, folks, episodes one and two were a little... lacking. I liked them, I think we all did, but they weren't the epic works we came to expect out of the Star Wars franchise. They were perfectly enjoyable little movies, aimed more at merchandising and making casual fans happy than targeting the hard-core fans of the odyssey of Anakin Skywalker. George flipped it this time around, going back to the original intent of the movies, going back to the heart of the story, and not relying on trendy characters and senseless scenes aimed at impressing children.

No, this is a down and dirty, raw emotion, feast for the spiritual essence. This is a clash between good and evil, and yet at the same time, a blurring of the line between absolutes. This is the final step in the lesson that Star Wars teaches, a life lesson Anakin only learns by sacrificing his very soul, a lesson about the nature of power... I can say very little else without giving anything away, and I want you to see the movie for yourselves before I say anything about it.

If you are a casual fan, go home and try to get into the first five movies. It won't work for everyone, but it's worth a shot. If you are a fan, a true fan, this movie will give you everything you hoped for.

blind post. . .can't read it. . .not seeing movie for another 2 hours.

You can read mine, no spoilers.

And it had Grand Moff Tarkin in the film for fifteen seconds! Holy fuck, that was the greatest moment in the entire film!

But seriously, I did rather enjoy the film. I didn't like the acting by Hayden Christiansen, but he can be forgiven, because other people certainly made up for it.

It still had that kind of "all too clean" feel. A result of being completely digitally rendered, but I can overlook that for now.

It also seemed rushed, but that's just my complaint.

Ian MacDiarmid did a splendid job portraying Palpatine. His portrayal of the character was, in my opinion, flawless.

While Frank Oz doesn't quite sound the same as he used to (old age strikes again) his portrayal of the sadness that eventually crept into Yoda's voice was well done.

Samuel L. Jackson and Ewan McGregor also did fine jobs with their characters. Not quite flawless, but damn good.

Natalie Portman: Who cares how she acts, she's fuckin' hot! She did a decent job, not excellent, but sufficient. Big complaint was that it didn't seem at all like she was giving birth, let alone to twins, at the very end of the film. That part was just kinda odd.

General Grievous came across as a formerly chain-smoking cyborg. With all the coughing, I could just imagine him lighting up a cigarette. 'twas quite odd.

Cinematography was overall quite nice. Enjoyed the film immensely. Saved Star Wars from a very sad fate. All the while, it was nicely done.

EPIII is probably the BEST Star Wars film ever made :)

Now, in the Expanded Universe (The Non-Canon novels, video games, role-playing games, comic books, etc.) it was always alluded to (Though never expressely stated) that Palpatine was so old and death-like in his appearance because of his exposure to the Dark Side. That he has used it for so long that it had consumed him, the Dark Side had obsorbed his very life and feasted on his body. His body had decayed over time as he went deeper into the Force, gradually emerging as the old weakling who needs a walking stick while still able to kill you with the mere gesture of a pinky.

You are absolutely right. Cheap way for Lucas to go right to the "decayed Emperor". I actually liked that aspect about how the darkside eventually makes you pay by corrupting you not only mentally but physically. Now, both Vader and the Emperor are deformed because of "accidents", not the darkside.

BTW, I still haven't seen the movie, lol!

EPIII is probably the BEST Star Wars film ever made :)
I wouldn't go that far....the best of the prequals definately, but i don't think it is exactly on par with the OT.

My qualms with it: my biggest problem is the comic relief provided by droids, specifically artoo. He seem too...umm...fluid i guess, and much more capable than droids seem. The same with the battle droids, and their dialogue...i mean, droids shouldnt scream when their sabered in half, should they?
My second problem is with the character Gen. Grevous. WARNING: SPOILERS INCLUDED PAST HERE: When obi-wan tears open his ribs in his chest, i believe we get a glimspe of an exposed heart or some other organs. THis is stupid, that a droid would have such organs so exposed. There's also the issue of the cough. Why in hell would a droid cough, if it doesn't have a mouth?

Other than all that, i absolutely loved the movie, espetially the way they turned to clone troopers against the Jedi, and tracked anakins decent to darkness through his attempt to preserve the jedi order and the republic.

Did anyone else cringe at the cheesy one-liners? I felt ashamed of all the hackneyed lines. Yoda's rendition of "Not if I have anything to say about it" really pushed me over the edge.

By the way, did anyone else notice the following contradiction?

Episode 3, Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Only the Sith deal in absolutes."
Episode 5, Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try."

Either Jedi are hypocrites or Yoda's a Sith Lord. :rolleyes:

I think the first half was waay too rushed. Lucas tried to cram too many things in the first hour or so. If Episode I had been reduced to that length and Episode II told in the remainder of the first movie, then he would have had an entire movie to tell us about the Clone Wars, the romance of Anakin and Padmé, and the manipulations of Palpatine; and then the third movie would have dealt with Palpatine's treachery, Anakin's turn to the dark side, the elimination of the Jedi and the conclusion. Heck! I was expecting some kind of scene showing Owen's antipathy towards Kenobi.

Still it's a great Star Wars movie as it is. Just not a great movie.

And Tarkin's digital head was too large.

in regard to him being Darth Vadar, at least the Vadar point

SPOILERS (maybe)

well you got to think that palpatine knew that he was the father of padme's kids, duh, and anakin was going to the dark side to save her, from death from childbirth and the word Vadar means father in Dutch. some connection perhaps..



i saw the movie, it was totally worth no sleep!!!! it rocked.

WARNING: SPOILERS INCLUDED PAST HERE: When obi-wan tears open his ribs in his chest, i believe we get a glimspe of an exposed heart or some other organs. THis is stupid, that a droid would have such organs so exposed. There's also the issue of the cough. Why in hell would a droid cough, if it doesn't have a mouth?

I think he was a cyborg, rather than a droid. But, I agree, Grievious should have looked stronger.

EPIII is probably the BEST Star Wars film ever made :)

Blasphemy!

"Just when I think George Lucas can't sink any lower, he makes Star Wars Episode III.. "

Question: Why is it that only in the fight scenes is Yoda able to virtally fly, bouncing off walls, doing mid-air tripple-flips, etc., etc. Yet, when he's fighting Palpatine in the Senate chamber and grabs the edge of one of the huge, round senatorial modules Palpatine throws at him, he can't even manage to hold onto it? Huh? :confused:

"Just when I think George Lucas can't sink any lower, he makes Star Wars Episode III.. "

Question: Why is it that only in the fight scenes is Yoda able to virtally fly, bouncing off walls, doing mid-air tripple-flips, etc., etc. Yet, when he's fighting Palpatine in the Senate chamber and grabs the edge of one of the huge, round senatorial modules Palpatine throws at him, he can't even manage to hold onto it? Huh? :confused:

He has poor upper-body strength, obviously.

Needs a spell in the Royal Navy I expect.

"Just when I think George Lucas can't sink any lower, he makes Star Wars Episode III.. "

Question: Why is it that only in the fight scenes is Yoda able to virtally fly, bouncing off walls, doing mid-air tripple-flips, etc., etc. Yet, when he's fighting Palpatine in the Senate chamber and grabs the edge of one of the huge, round senatorial modules Palpatine throws at him, he can't even manage to hold onto it? Huh? :confused:

Strong he is with the force. But not that strong. ;)

Strong he is with the force. But not that strong. ;)
Must have let his batteries run down, eh? Heh!

Which brings up another interesting question: where did Yoda come from and why do we never see other Yodas running around and how, if there are no female Yodas, does he recharge his batteries?

OMG! Yoda is gay! :eek:

Must have let his batteries run down, eh? Heh!

Which brings up another interesting question: where did Yoda come from and why do we never see other Yodas running around and how, if there are no female Yodas, does he recharge his batteries?

OMG! Yoda is gay! :eek:

Well, if other members of his species live as long as he does, they probably don't get lucky very often.

ANd there was a female of his species on the council according to Wikipedia(which has a stunning amount of Star Wars info. Including extensive spoilers).

I just saw Ep III.
It was good.

It redeemed the last two turds, and became a Star Wars Movie for sure.
One thing that I thought odd, was that if you havent seen The Clone Wars Cartoon on Nickelodeon, you have no idea why Greivous is coughing, or how Anakin is already a Jedi Knight.

Lucas probably should have told people to watch the series BEFORE the movie, since the events in the cartoon take you right to the credits of the third movie.

This film was no Episodes 4 or 5, but it may be the equal of Return of the Jedi.
Im gonna see it again to make a final decision on that statment.

The last showdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan was as epic and grand as I was always hoping it would be, that is the movies ultimate selling point.
I'll repeat this again:

Ive been a Star Wars fan since I saw Empire Strikes back as a small child.
If you want to know wich part of the last movie would be the reason to see it, it is by far the showdown between Anakin and Obi-Wan.
Brilliantly done.

The love scene was awful.

Anakin: "Youre so beautiful."
Padme "Thats becuase you love me."
Anakin "No, its becuase I love you."

Fucking gag.

Worst line ever.

Other than that, this film was great.

Ultimately, this series of movies was about one mans fall to evil, and his ultimate redemption, and even though Lucas didnt tell it as throuroughly as I would have liked, he did give the fans the sense of closure.

Thank you George.

Well, if other members of his species live as long as he does, they probably don't get lucky very often.

ANd there was a female of his species on the council according to Wikipedia(which has a stunning amount of Star Wars info. Including extensive spoilers).


Yaddle.

She appeared in Episode I, in the Jedi Council.

just came back and immediatly had to change into a new pair of pants

Did anyone else cringe at the cheesy one-liners? I felt ashamed of all the hackneyed lines. Yoda's rendition of "Not if I have anything to say about it" really pushed me over the edge.

By the way, did anyone else notice the following contradiction?

Episode 3, Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Only the Sith deal in absolutes."
Episode 5, Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try."

Either Jedi are hypocrites or Yoda's a Sith Lord. :rolleyes:

Nope, that's not a contradiction. Either the deed is done, or it is not done, period. The weight moves up or it doesn't. The X-wing comes out of the swamp or it doesn't. That's it - a or b. If you don't lift the X-wing, or don't perform as you can - the X-wing is in the swamp. Simple.

SPOILERS

Why I thought it sucked:

1) The first hour was pure art. It looked great, but the acting, story, and dialogue, were horribly weak.

2) General Grievous? WHAT THE HELL? A droid that walks around with a cape, hunched over, coughing. Pure stupidity.

3) Overly obvious set-ups. When Anakin is conflicted about whether to slice off Dooku's head, and Palpatine and Anakin pretty much run through the entire concept of the force, and power, and the Dark Side in a Kiddish, stupid way.

4) Cheap way to have Chewie in there.

5) Vader's "Nooooo!" after Sidius tells him he killed Padme. Absolutely horrible, they could've gotten a three-week old sandwich to wail more convincingly.

6) Mace dies. OK, not a reason to hate it, but I was still pissed.

7) Same gripe with Phantom Menace and AOTC: they overuse special effects to the point where it undeniably seems that The Republic's technology in I-III is more advanced than The Empire's in IV-VI.

8) My girlfriend wouldn't shut up through the whole thing.

He can't direct people. He's a great visionary, an incredible producer and a shrewd businessman but he's a bloody awful director. Empire's still the best of the series because he didn't direct and didn't write it - Irwin Kershner and Lawrence Kasdan did. You get introduced to cool, memorable characters in virtually every scene in Empire - Wedge Antilles, General Veers, Yoda, Bobba Fett, Lando Calrissian and then you get the 'I am your father scene' after Luke loses a hand. How many characters from the new series are as cool as that? I'll grant you two - Darth Maul and Mace Windu, though it helps that the actors playing them are a real martial artist and Mr.Cool respectively. For all its faults (read: J-A-R J-A-R B-I-N-K-S, okay and then some...) Episode 1 was the closest to the old series in spirit.

This only seems like the best because it's the point of catharsis where everything comes together. Otherwise it's George does The Godfather - down to the assasination scene ('do you renounce Satan and all his works') with Anakin as Michael. The swordfights don't approximate the Darth Maul vs Qui Gon and Obi Wan fight - they're all over too fast. It's cool to see Yoda in top form but his fight with Palpatine is over way too quickly, though in the same vein, the video-game style fight scenes just take WAY too long without pushing the story forward. There's too little exposition in the movie about characters like Grievous so anyone who's not seen The Clone Wars cartoon on TV won't get the full emotional impact of who he is. You know, that's the big problem with the movie. It's so chock full of special effects that it's hardly human at all. Acting that's wooden, dialogue that's stilted, over-explanation and un-necessary revelations (Bobba Fett should NEVER have been de-constructed he's too cool for that! In TALES OF THE BOUNTY HUNTER he was cool - an integalactic Inspector Javert - now he's just another vengeful son 'You killed my father, prepare to die' I mean COME ON, that's just the most hackneyed revenge plot in history) a complex history and ultimately we just don't care enough about the characters, we aren't stirred enough to care. We know he's going to become Vader the pleasure is in seeing how but George hasn't really provided much of that except viscerally, I'll give you that.

The script is so bad, the performances so perfunctory (except for a few of the veterans - Ian McDiarmid, Samuel L. Jackson, - even Ewan, who's grown so much from his post Trainspotting persona to Mr.Moulin Rouge, is in less than top form here) that when the script needs you to care there's just nothing, just dryness. Those horrible love-scenes, he might as well have been directing twigs.

The one moment, the singular moment that almost works is when Anakin goes Jedi hunting and meets the younglings. That's about the only time I felt my heart in my throat. The delivery of the youngling who's so innocent, so full of trust is just right and Christiansen (who actually does pretty good except he's just got horrible lines and there were too many times it felt like George didn't want to bother with a second take) hestitates for a moment before drawing his light sabre. Then CUT. WHY!! That's the moment of ultimate evil and betrayal. To pander to Lucas' new audience of prepubescent toy-buying kiddies who will probably hate the movie when they watch it again in 10 years and ask themselves "WHAT was I thinking!!"? Go back to film school George and remember you SHOW, DON'T TELL. No matter how many tears Padme Amidala cries, how much exposition she mouths it's not as effective as would have been a sequence with Anakin pursuing and at least hacking down one. Or even this: Light sabre lights up, the kiddies realize their beloved heroic master Anakin's going to off them and they turn and run, and then CUT TO: Anakin moving toward the camera, his face a picture of cold resolve. Why George is so afraid of emotional closeups is anyone's guess. That longing scene of Padme and Anakin looking out and thinking of each other while he makes up his mind whether or not to betray his friend is a drop in the bucket and can't make up for those horrible, 'You're beautiful' , 'that's because I'm in love' scenes.

Ah, I get it now. The series itself IS DARTH VADER. Going from the humanity of 1 to the technological overkill and mechanical delivery of 3. And George is the Emperor.

His Grace, etc. etc, the Supreme Lord Chancellor of Cathenia

Conan should put a new category in his show, 'The ten worst uses of the word NO in summer movies'.

Then show that Buzz Lightyear scene of Vader screaming 'No' ten times.

It's not even strictly Star Wars. Luke was hanging on for dear life over the exhaust vent, missing a hand and it was more like "No! It isn't true!". It was Buzz Lightyear in that lovely Star Wars SPOOFING scene in Toy Story II who screamed 'No' as the camera pulled up and away.

That was the funniest stupid moment and it's what stuck after the movie was over.

"Do you have the parking ticket?"

"NOOOOOOOO"

"Wanna have coffee at Starbucks?"

"NOOOOOOOO"

"Was it a great movie?"

"NOOOOOOOOO"

His Grace, etc etc, the Supreme Lord Chancellor of Cathenia

From what I saw Hayden still can't act enough to save his life, and the fight scenes are still terribly dumb. I so won't watch it. People just scream because it has "Star Wars" on it, without that people would not watch it.

-snip-

(though I liked your post)



You miss the point. The cathexis is just after Obi-wan has cut his legs and last arm off and anakin screams "I hate you."

It is then that Obi-wan spouts some self indulgent bullshit and walks away, making the jedi no better than the sith. A theme that had run, and was finaly realized, throughout the entire movie.

Indeed, Lucas drives this point home later when palpatine places his hand upon Vader's brow. It leaves the question begging: who actually loved anakin?

It was a great story. And I am sick of people saying it was not.

Well...obviously some liked it, and some didn't. I'm going to see it tomorrow, so I'll get to decide for myself.

BUT

For those of you who liked it, I have a question. Having now seen all six movies...

do you think that when you go back and watch Episodes I and II again...they will somehow, in some way, be better than they were before the entire story arc was completed?

Or will they still be as bad (comparatively) as when they were first released?

If the same quality of acting and directing was in any other action movie it wouldn't make 1% of what it's probably going to make. Even if the original one was, technically, a 'B movie' it was a great 'B movie' with solid acting and an uncomplicated story and the quality of the next two lifted the first one above whatever failings it had. And the movie spoke to people through the Force, through Yoda, through the ageless conflict played out through Luke, caught between power and responsibility. That's why Matrix was such a big success as well I think. They may be 'B grade action flicks' on the surface but they posed questions that resonated in the human soul. All this has are overly long duel and dogfight scenes, which have NO tension because you don't bloody care about the thousands who are fighting and dying (not like the old series w/c had the Rogue Squadron) and you know that Anakin and Obi Wan will make it out fine anyway so what's left?

His Grace, etc etc, the Supreme Lord Chancellor of Cathenia

2) General Grievous? WHAT THE HELL? A droid that walks around with a cape, hunched over, coughing. Pure stupidity.

He ain't a droid, he's half robot/half 'living' thing.

er...whats the name...

Cyborg? I think thats right.

Hence why he coughs I suppose. Plus he wears a cape because he is an Important Character...apparently.

You miss the point. The cathexis is just after Obi-wan has cut his legs and last arm off and anakin screams "I hate you."

It is then that Obi-wan spouts some self indulgent bullshit and walks away, making the jedi no better than the sith. A theme that had run, and was finaly realized, throughout the entire movie.

Oh, I should have clarified - I meant the movie as a whole was the point of catharsis for the prequels (not the Jedi Temple massacre scene). That scene was powerful but I don't know... something... something I can't quite put my finger on should have been there.

Indeed, Lucas drives this point home later when palpatine places his hand upon Vader's brow. It leaves the question begging: who actually loved anakin?

It was a great story. And I am sick of people saying it was not.

That was a great scene too. Great in its sublime understatement - shades of Kurosawa (who George idolizes too I know). The prequels really are Palpatine's show I think. I do wish Anakin was given... well, better lines and better scenes... his character was caught in the strictures of who he was supposed to be - which actually is not a weakness in itself for that is exactly how he's supposed to be, but George should have been more intuitive ("stretch out with your feelings") when he wrote for Anakin.

The story is great and if handled well it could have been the greatest. Darn, the more I think of it, the entire movies are parallels of what they should be. ("This was the chosen film!!") I guess it shows that George knew what he wanted to happen but in the end it's execution, execution, execution. The idea is unmatched, the concept is brilliant, the story is great but the final result - the plotting, dialogue, the nuts and bolts details - I found these greatly wanting.

His Grace, etc etc, the Supreme Lord Chancellor of Cathenia

The originals - in their original format - he was hungry, starting, and willing to be creative in order to get the story out there.

Reworking your own films to "get it right the second time"??? Uhm, yeah.

The new triplet... well, it's there. There's some interesting games out for it.... but somewhere in all of it, he lost the connection this is a prequel.

It's... meh, it's ok. I'm not planning on seeing it 37 times like I did Star Wars when it came out. Once was enough - too many flaws caused by hubris to make it a "must see again".

Oh, I should have clarified - I meant the movie as a whole was the point of catharsis for the prequels (not the Jedi Temple massacre scene). That scene was powerful but I don't know... something... something I can't quite put my finger on should have been there.



That was a great scene too. Great in its sublime understatement - shades of Kurosawa (who George idolizes too I know). The prequels really are Palpatine's show I think. I do wish Anakin was given... well, better lines and better scenes... his character was caught in the strictures of who he was supposed to be - which actually is not a weakness in itself for that is exactly how he's supposed to be, but George should have been more intuitive ("stretch out with your feelings") when he wrote for Anakin.

The story is great and if handled well it could have been the greatest. Darn, the more I think of it, the entire movies are parallels of what they should be. ("This was the chosen film!!") I guess it shows that George knew what he wanted to happen but in the end it's execution, execution, execution. The idea is unmatched, the concept is brilliant, the story is great but the final result - the plotting, dialogue, the nuts and bolts details - I found these greatly wanting.

His Grace, etc etc, the Supreme Lord Chancellor of Cathenia


It'll never be satisfying, because it still lacks a third act. Anakin finds redemption in Return of the Jedi - and indeed fulfills the prophesy. But what is it all for?

Nevertheless, it is an unfinished masterpiece. Think about it, we all know how anakin is going to end up, yet we sit there entranced, watching his fall. A fall that is inspired by all too human failings. Moreover, the failings are not necessarily Anakin's. The Jedi council asks him to break the jedi code, and he is there when Master Windu is prepared to execute a defensless person. How can he not question the morality of the institution he has been brought up in.

Furthermore, the jedi tout him, and he knows, that he is the chosen one. Yet at every step of the way, they deny him any form of recognition. Why is that? Because he is friends with palpatine, whom they do not even recognize as a sith lord.

Anakin's only anchors in the universe, the only constants he can rely upon are Padme and Palpatine, both of whom apparently love him. Doubly so for padme, who he is prepared to sacrifice anything to save.

Plus I liked how he wanted to go back in the begining scene and help the clone pilots, and Obi wan didn't let him.

It is a sad and great tale.

Perhaps that's George's take on organized religion - striving for high ideals but all too often violating their own ideals.

Granted scenes like that (where he wants to help the clone pilots and Obi Wan rather ruthlessly forbids it - saying to the effect that they're cannon fodder to help them get to their objective) show his humanity and goodness at heart but the scenes that count are the scenes with Padme and until the midpoint of the movie they fall flat. These scenes are the motivation for his horrific betrayal and it's like building the proverbial 'house on the sand'.

H.G. etc. S.L.C.Cathenia

Well...obviously some liked it, and some didn't. I'm going to see it tomorrow, so I'll get to decide for myself.

BUT

For those of you who liked it, I have a question. Having now seen all six movies...

do you think that when you go back and watch Episodes I and II again...they will somehow, in some way, be better than they were before the entire story arc was completed?

Or will they still be as bad (comparatively) as when they were first released?


The first two movies were not good.
Period.

Nothing can change that, but there were parts of both movies that most people can enjoy, wether it was the fight scenes, or whatever.
I can enjoy them, simply becuase they arer part of the saga that I have grown up with.

The first two movies got SUCH a bad review, but always remember two things:

The first two movies are being compared to the most successful and well made SCI-FI movies ever.

No such movie can compare to Empire Strikes Back, and likely, never will.

So, whe these films were released, and werent very good, they recieved IMMENSE criticism, becuase they were a bit of a let-down to the entire movie going world.

Its not that they were terrible, just were no where near as good as the original trilogy.

This new movie, im this true fans opinion, just may be the equal of Return of the Jedi.

If I have to rate them in terms of best overall...

1.Empire
2. A New Hope.
3 ROTJ./ (maybe Ep III.)
4. see above.
5 Attack of the Clones.
6. Phantom Menace.

If I have to rate them in terms of best overall...

1.Empire
2. A New Hope.
3 ROTJ./ (maybe Ep III.)
4. see above.
5 Attack of the Clones.
6. Phantom Menace.

I'd switch PM and AOTC round but only by a little. Mainly because I like the dual ended light saber, but hey, thats just me.

Other than that I agree, but I would place ROTJ below Ep III because of the militant teddy bears.

It'll never be satisfying, because it still lacks a third act. Anakin finds redemption in Return of the Jedi - and indeed fulfills the prophesy. But what is it all for?

The entire story isnt so much about the fall of a government by a ruthless dictator, or the fall of an ancient order, its about one mans fall to evil, and his ultimate redemption by his son.

I'd switch PM and AOTC round but only by a little. Mainly because I like the dual ended light saber, but hey, thats just me.

Other than that I agree, but I would place ROTJ below Ep III because of the militant teddy bears.


Yah Im not even absolutely sure yet, aside from the thrice damned teddy bears, ROTJ was awesome.
So, I'll go see Revenge one more time and decide.

Yah Im not even absolutely sure yet, aside from the thrice damned teddy bears, ROTJ was awesome.
So, I'll go see Revenge one more time and decide.


Ah, any excuse! :rolleyes: :p :D

He can't direct people. He's a great visionary, an incredible producer and a shrewd businessman but he's a bloody awful director.
Certainly have to agree with you there. I was entranced in his visions of other worlds and spent most of the time thinking about what a shame it is that such an obiously talented man can't write for shit, yet apparently thinks he can.

The one moment, the singular moment that almost works is when Anakin goes Jedi hunting and meets the younglings. That's about the only time I felt my heart in my throat. The delivery of the youngling who's so innocent, so full of trust is just right and Christiansen (who actually does pretty good except he's just got horrible lines and there were too many times it felt like George didn't want to bother with a second take) hestitates for a moment before drawing his light sabre. Then CUT. WHY!! That's the moment of ultimate evil and betrayal. To pander to Lucas' new audience of prepubescent toy-buying kiddies who will probably hate the movie when they watch it again in 10 years and ask themselves "WHAT was I thinking!!"? Go back to film school George and remember you SHOW, DON'T TELL. No matter how many tears Padme Amidala cries, how much exposition she mouths it's not as effective as would have been a sequence with Anakin pursuing and at least hacking down one. Or even this: Light sabre lights up, the kiddies realize their beloved heroic master Anakin's going to off them and they turn and run, and then CUT TO: Anakin moving toward the camera, his face a picture of cold resolve. Why George is so afraid of emotional closeups is anyone's guess. That longing scene of Padme and Anakin looking out and thinking of each other while he makes up his mind whether or not to betray his friend is a drop in the bucket and can't make up for those horrible, 'You're beautiful' , 'that's because I'm in love' scenes.
What you're suggesting is overkill. You don't need to show everything just because it's a movie. The implication of something is far more powerful than actually seeing it - that's what makes truly scary (and great) horror movies (like 'The Shining').
In this instance, I thought Lucas played it right by not showing the slaughter as it happened, but instead showed the aftermath when Yodi and Obi found the 'younglings'. The big drawback in doing it this way of course is that you have to rely on your main actors to convey the horror of what's happened, and Christensen hasn't the ability to show real conflict and disgust at his own actions. He mainly seemed to be labouring under the idea that staring out from under your eyebrows showed you're evil.

Also, the other major point (indeed probably THE major point) is that showing kids being killed would have most likely meant the movie was regraded to a PG16 or something stupid. And that would have cost Lucasfilms plenty.


I thoroughly enjoyed the movie (aside from the crappy 'I love you' bits) and was surprised at some of the subtlety in it (something Lucas isn't exactly reknown for).
Like at the end when Vader is being prepared for his suit. The fact he survived showed that he had conquered death, just like Palpatine had kept telling him he would once on the Dark Side. Palpatines look of pleasure and triumph when they find Vader and see that he's still alive indicated (to me anyway) that Palpatine realised this immediately.
At first I wondered why he wasn't fixed up better - it seems like they just threw him in the suit still all burned and in agony (one would think they'd have the medical advances to fix him up a bit), but I think Palpatine wanted Vader in constant pain, as it would always remind him of his hatred towards the Jedi and push him further over to the Dark Side.
But maybe I'm just reading too much into this.

Did anyone else cringe at the cheesy one-liners? I felt ashamed of all the hackneyed lines. Yoda's rendition of "Not if I have anything to say about it" really pushed me over the edge.


Glad I'm not the only one who noticed. And the first half was way too rushed and choppy.

From what I saw Hayden still can't act enough to save his life, and the fight scenes are still terribly dumb. I so won't watch it. People just scream because it has "Star Wars" on it, without that people would not watch it.
He's still pretty hot.

I expected some kind of grand event, some transfer of power or energy, at least some reason for why he picked the name.

I thought it was common knowledge as to why he picked the name Darth Vader for Anakin Skywalker... "Vader" is the Dutch equivalent of "father." Since Anakin was going to be a father, it was fitting to be called such in Sidious' eyes. I forget where I read that, but I'm about 75% George Lucas said it himself.

EPIII is probably the BEST Star Wars film ever made :)

I am sorry but I cannot let this pass.

I saw the film this afternoon. To be fair to it, it was alright and was better than the last two. But compared to the previous three? God no.

There was actually about 10 minutes of non-action: the rest was a typical all shooting, all sword fighting, all special effects Hollywood movie. Star Wars was effectively reduced to the level of Troy, Kingdom of Heaven and other so-so blockbusters.

Was there any attempt at describing the complex character changes which Anakin must have done to become the Sith Lord? No alas - instead Lucas glued on some badly conceived nonsense about Obi Wan having an affair with Padme and Anakin not being trusted by the Jedis. But then again, I sincerly doubt that Hayden Christian's acting would have been capable of portraying any real indepth attempts to explain the transforming psychology of Anakin. Neither would his co-star, Natalie Portman been able to support him in this role. Both were dire in their roles and about as passionate as planks of rotting wood.

The reason why no indepth character exploration was made is perhaps my biggest criticism of RotS - the fact that the focus of the action never remained in one place for more than 5 minutes. It was constantly switching and so not one single actor got enough screen time. For example take the final battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan: it should have been the most dramatic of all battles but it was constantly inter-cut with the so-so battle between Yoda and the Emperor and therefore lost most of its dramatic appeal. The same can be said of location - they did not stay in one place long enough for us to get a feel for the new worlds like we did for Hoth, Endor, Tatooine and Dagobah in the orginals. The plot was constantly flitting around and so left the audience with no real insight into any of the many planets visited. That meant the backgrounds felt tacked on, simply to show off Lucas' mastery of the blue screen rather than grant the audience the sensation of seeing an alien world. Such was the role of the Wookies - tacked onto the film as an excuse to show the audience Chewbacca and to appease those who always felt annoyed by the Ewoks in RotJ.

The acting, as mentioned, was of a dire standard. Hayden Christian, Natalie Portman and Samuel L. Jackson were poor, bringing no emotion or plausibilty to the role. Ian McDiarmd as the Emperor was the one bright spot - he managed to inject a degree of slimyness into his role and one can possibly understand how such a man could corrupt an entire galaxy to his will. Christopher Lee is woefully under used as is the new villain General Grievous, who alas is shoved in to provide Obi Wan with about 2 minutes of impressive duelling. And talking of Obi Wan, Ewan McGregor did quite well although his potential was never really reached. C-3PO is also underused, limited to the occasion "Dear oh dear". R2-D2 is better used in the first third.

The violence of the film trully earned its 12 rating: indeed I have seen better 15s in terms of violence. You actually see Anakin get burnt to a crisp by the lava and so many limbs get sliced off it is impossible to count. Even Yoda takes part in the decapiting violence. Cool? Yes. Necessary? no. A good film does not need huge violence to portray its message.

No I am not saying it wasnt entertaining. The opening space battle was highly enjoyable as were some of the lightsaber fights. The Emperor was also a joy to watch. The special effects were of a high quality and there was indeed a certain thrill at the end to see the story come full circle. The nostalgia value of seeing Vader again on the big screen was also quite good.

But compared to the orginal trilogy, it cannot hold its ground. It has a chance against Episode IV but the other two are simply in a class of their own. Dark RotS certainly was but as dark as the moody tradegy portrayed in TESB? No and certainly not as poignant. It lacked the humour of the orginals and the overall acting talent to make the story remotely plausible. It is my opinion that it is because of the directing of Lucas himself. The last two of the orginal series (V and VI) were directed by others and in my opinion it is that which made them superior films. Lucas is simply too obsessed with the special effects to direct with any degree of competence - had he done, he might have realised that the acting was poor, his script could have been written better by a 10 year old and that his screenplay was all over the place.

So from me its a 2 out of 5 for this film. Entertaing for the two and a bit hours I watched it but it will have any profound effect on my thinking? I do hope not otherwise I might start slicing people's heads off with a bread knife while making my own lightsaber noises.

1.Empire
2. A New Hope.
3 ROTJ./ (maybe Ep III.)
4. see above.
5 Attack of the Clones.
6. Phantom Menace.

Yes I think, at least in terms of vision, daring to tell the story that he did (actually I'd rate it with A New Hope if just for that), visuals (again this is a place where it REALLY shines), I'd rate it with RotJ. I'd put PM above Clones though. In spite of Jake Lloyd and Jar Jar I think it was better than Clones which really did nothing for me. Darth Maul is just too cool it's almost criminal that he dies so soon. Likewise I agree with a previous post that perhaps Qui Gon could have been given a bigger role, though I suppose he was taken out early so it would really be Obi Wan's show.

H.G. Cathenia

In this instance, I thought Lucas played it right by not showing the slaughter as it happened, but instead showed the aftermath when Yodi and Obi found the 'younglings'. The big drawback in doing it this way of course is that you have to rely on your main actors to convey the horror of what's happened, and Christensen hasn't the ability to show real conflict and disgust at his own actions. He mainly seemed to be labouring under the idea that staring out from under your eyebrows showed you're evil.

That's just it. It would have been fine IF the other scenes worked. There is a lot of 'imbalance in the Force' of this film so to speak because some scenes work fine, even great (the old magic is there!) but others fall flat and the entire is like a top heavy structure that sways from the weight (though it stands).

I don't know. I guess I'm just disappointed because it could - and by rights SHOULD - have been the best.

H.G. Cathenia

I just wanted to see one jedi say, "Don't fuck with the jedi master, son!" That would've been worth my admission price right there. :)

Conan should put a new category in his show, 'The ten worst uses of the word NO in summer movies'.

Then show that Buzz Lightyear scene of Vader screaming 'No' ten times.

It's not even strictly Star Wars. Luke was hanging on for dear life over the exhaust vent, missing a hand and it was more like "No! It isn't true!". It was Buzz Lightyear in that lovely Star Wars SPOOFING scene in Toy Story II who screamed 'No' as the camera pulled up and away.

That was the funniest stupid moment and it's what stuck after the movie was over.

"Do you have the parking ticket?"

"NOOOOOOOO"

"Wanna have coffee at Starbucks?"

"NOOOOOOOO"

"Was it a great movie?"

"NOOOOOOOOO"


If you want real bad "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"s heck out Kenneth Branagh's 'Frankenstein' movie. I swear, every single person in that god-awful movie has a chance to yell "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" at the top of their lungs. Some for no reason whatsoever, except that a "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" hadn't happened for a few minutes.

But compared to the orginal trilogy, it cannot hold its ground. It has a chance against Episode IV but the other two are simply in a class of their own. Dark RotS certainly was but as dark as the moody tradegy portrayed in TESB? No and certainly not as poignant. It lacked the humour of the orginals and the overall acting talent to make the story remotely plausible. It is my opinion that it is because of the directing of Lucas himself. The last two of the orginal series (V and VI) were directed by others and in my opinion it is that which made them superior films. Lucas is simply too obsessed with the special effects to direct with any degree of competence - had he done, he might have realised that the acting was poor, his script could have been written better by a 10 year old and that his screenplay was all over the place.

So from me its a 2 out of 5 for this film.

Perhaps it's a stretch to say the George can't write. I mean he DID write A New Hope. I guess he just succumbed to the Dark Side of the Force somewhere along the way. Heaven help me he should have looked at himself more, of all the power and prestige (Anakin is supposed to be a great hero and that doesn't come out in the film. I believe it comes out - along with Grievous and more of under-used Christopher Lee - in the cartoon series The Clone Wars) he's acquired and how he can bend people to his will at a whim - something reflexive. Taken that and wrote his thoughts on it, what he has become, wrote more of that into the scene. I think that would have at least been more heartfelt.

I think we can state it this way - this is THE BEST FILM GEORGE LUCAS HAS DIRECTED. There, that's a positive way of stating it. Not the best in the series by a wide mark but certainly either the best or tying with A New Hope for the best GL has done.

H.G. Cathenia

If you want real bad "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"s heck out Kenneth Branagh's 'Frankenstein' movie. I swear, every single person in that god-awful movie has a chance to yell "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" at the top of their lungs. Some for no reason whatsoever, except that a "NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!" hadn't happened for a few minutes.

Hahaha! I'll tell my siblings. That should be a gas.

Thanks,
H.G. Cathenia

EPIII is probably the BEST Star Wars film ever made :)

Episode III is DEFINATELY the best Star Wars film ever made!!

Hell - I'm more of a Trek fan myself, but RotS totally brought me closer to the Wars world, and I definately appreciate it more! Makes me want to watch the original Trilogy again!