NationStates Jolt Archive


Language Laws in the US.

Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 21:51
I'm doing a tiny little research project on Canadian language laws, and the way they apply both to federal services and education. Our two official languages, French and English, are protected in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but in the sense that they are protected as MINORITY languages. Meaning, if English speakers are the minority in the province, federal legislation protects this minority by guaranteeing federal services in English (and visa versa for French speakers) based on a percentage (5% of population) or a number (5000 in a particular region). Education is a bit trickier since other than Native Education, it is a provincial/territorial responsibility rather than a federal one. Section 23 of the Charter states that education in the minority language will be offered where numbers warrant...but there is not real definition of what that number is, and those seeking minority language rights may have to appeal to the Supreme Court for application of the law.

Anyway.

In the US, there seems to be a lot of fear/anger/ennui in regards to 'foreign' languages (especially Spanish)and the perception of minority language rights. However, is there ANY legislation in the US which actually PROTECTS minority language rights? Is there any law that requires that minority languages be promoted? Is there any real reason to believe that minority languages somehow pose a threat when English is your ONLY official language?

Discuss.
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 21:56
yes

you can ask to take the drivers permit test in spanish (or whatever language you read, provided there are enough native <X> speakers in the state.)

the same with ballots. our county has a small indian resevation on it, a couple hundred navajo ballots have to be printed up for every election.

there are other provisions im sure.

we have NO official language
Isanyonehome
19-05-2005, 22:01
Anyway.

In the US, there seems to be a lot of fear/anger/ennui in regards to 'foreign' languages (especially Spanish)and the perception of minority language rights. However, is there ANY legislation in the US which actually PROTECTS minority language rights? Is there any law that requires that minority languages be promoted? Is there any real reason to believe that minority languages somehow pose a threat when English is your ONLY official language?

Discuss.

What does "However, is there ANY legislation in the US which actually PROTECTS minority language rights?" mean?

People are allowed to speak any language they damn well please. If they dont know English in a heavily english spoken area then they will probably run into some problems when it comes to getting things done.

On the hand, in my dad's clinic in NY, he has made sure that 7 languages are spoken(english, spanish, chinese(mandarin I think), korean, hindi, telugu, tamil) . Had nothing to do with laws, had to do with catering to the needs of his clientelle. He pays extra for staff with language skills that are potentially usefull.

Edit: why does everything need to be "PROTECTED" by the government anyway? Arent people/cultures able to protect themselves?
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 22:09
yes

you can ask to take the drivers permit test in spanish (or whatever language you read, provided there are enough native <X> speakers in the state.


the same with ballots. our county has a small indian resevation on it, a couple hundred navajo ballots have to be printed up for every election.

there are other provisions im sure.
Please source these laws.
we have NO official language
Ah! That's right, I've heard this before. I guess unlike in Canada, the need for an "official" language never really came up. Interesting. So what are the specific laws pertaining to language in the US?
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 22:11
What does "However, is there ANY legislation in the US which actually PROTECTS minority language rights?" mean?
It means: Are there any laws which require that certain services be provided in a particular language.


Edit: why does everything need to be "PROTECTED" by the government anyway? Arent people/cultures able to protect themselves?
That is a good question, though it's not one I'm prepared to discuss quite yet:). I'm not advocating one way or the other at this time.
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 22:19
Please source these laws.

Ah! That's right, I've heard this before. I guess unlike in Canada, the need for an "official" language never really came up. Interesting. So what are the specific laws pertaining to language in the US?
try putting "socorro county new mexico" and "navajo ballot" into google. the navajos had to sue to get the ballots. it should be on the net somewhere.
Myrmidonisia
19-05-2005, 22:27
In the US, there seems to be a lot of fear/anger/ennui in regards to 'foreign' languages (especially Spanish)and the perception of minority language rights. However, is there ANY legislation in the US which actually PROTECTS minority language rights? Is there any law that requires that minority languages be promoted? Is there any real reason to believe that minority languages somehow pose a threat when English is your ONLY official language?

Discuss.
So there is no law that requires us to label laundry detergent in five different languages. That doesn't mean that the market hasn't found a solution. We do find a lot of bi-lingually labelled products. Home Depot will have bi-lingually labelled aisle markers. Fortunately, we haven't sunk to the same depths that baseball teams in Canada have by labelling the outfield in pieds.

The market-based solution targets the both the geographic and product areas that need explanations in multiple languages. It's better, it's market based.
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 22:31
try putting "socorro county new mexico" and "navajo ballot" into google. the navajos had to sue to get the ballots. it should be on the net somewhere.
Yeah...I'm not finding anything about these cases...and if the navajo sued, what law did they use as a basis for their case?

Point being...there is no federal legislation requiring services in a particular language, is there?

But since you don't have an official language in the first place....is there any law that says services have to be in English? Is there any legislation that addresses the issue of language? (For example, in Canada, any citizen no matter where they live, have the right to a trial in either French or English...but no such right is given to people that speak any other languages)
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 22:35
So there is no law that requires us to label laundry detergent in five different languages. That doesn't mean that the market hasn't found a solution. We do find a lot of bi-lingually labelled products. Home Depot will have bi-lingually labelled aisle markers. Fortunately, we haven't sunk to the same depths that baseball teams in Canada have by labelling the outfield in pieds.

The market-based solution targets the both the geographic and product areas that need explanations in multiple languages. It's better, it's market based.
Ah Capitalism...the great equalizer:)

Obviously there is a fear in the US that English is being crowded out by other languages. Language is more than just a method of communication. It is a vehicle of culture. The two can not be separated completely. This fear of a "crowding out of English" is also a fear of a cultural "crowding out". I have heard many complaints, both here in General, and in RL about Spanish (in particular in the US) and Mandarin (on the west coast of Canada). The gist of these complaints is that services are not being provided in English, (including signs and so on) and that this puts English speakers at a disadvantage. Now, in Canada, we have laws requiring that English (and French) be made accesible in certain situations. These rights are guaranteed. In the US, it appears that this is not so.

Which causes me to consider that perhaps English speakers in the US have a case, if, for example, they tried to access a government service, but were not offered service in English, and there was no legislation REQUIRING that they be served in English.

The market won't necessarily provide protection. If a particular market is of a majority language group, and it does not make financial sense to cater to the minority language groups, you're out of luck, Chuck:).
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 22:36
Please source these laws.

Ah! That's right, I've heard this before. I guess unlike in Canada, the need for an "official" language never really came up. Interesting. So what are the specific laws pertaining to language in the US?

I can't quote you the laws, but I do know that as a public, Community Mental Health agency we are required to provide care to anyone who fits certain income (or lack there off to be more precise). Part of that provision, is a requirement that we offer an interpreter to any consumer in any language they request. We even have to post that in multiple languages in our reception rooms...
Robot ninja pirates
19-05-2005, 22:38
There is no official language in the U.S. Many documents are printed up in multiple languages, such as safety warnings, diclaimers, instructions etc. On products, many companies simply print it in multiple languages because if they don't, someone else will and will steal that part of the market. The free market economy by itself protects minority languages; stuff in Spanish is everywhere even without government intervention.

The US is very proud of it's government which has historically kept out of people's lives (current administration and it's Patriot Act aside), and so I doubt there is any law forcing people to protect languages.
Isanyonehome
19-05-2005, 22:40
It means: Are there any laws which require that certain services be provided in a particular language.

Well, I do know that for most legal services, a translator must be provided if required. Dont know if that is a state or federal thing, I would assume state(so dont know how it works outside of NY). So, if you spoke cantonese and found yourself in court in a small county in the middle of the country, I would say that you are in for a long wait in a jail cell.

I believe it is a Federal law that requires that people arrested understand their miranda rights before being questioned(well, before it can be admitted). This often involves differant languages. Simply being read the rights in English is NOT sufficient unless the person understands English.

Spanish has become basically a second language in the US, and pretty much everyone who lives with any sort of spanish population knows some. Grab any person from NY, NJ, FL, TX, CA and AZ, gurranteed they know at least a little Spanish. And we didnt even need any laws to do it.



That is a good question, though it's not one I'm prepared to discuss quite yet:). I'm not advocating one way or the other at this time.

Fair enough.
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 22:40
I can't quote you the laws, but I do know that as a public, Community Mental Health agency we are required to provide care to anyone who fits certain income (or lack there off to be more precise). Part of that provision, is a requirement that we offer an interpreter to any consumer in any language they request. We even have to post that in multiple languages in our reception rooms...
Is this interpreter offered as a legal requirement in terms of language, or a part of the way you meet a legal requirement to provide treatment? The difference is in the focus. Is this about language, or about the need to provide EFFECTIVE treatment, a need that would be hindered by a lack of linguistic communication? (I'm not necessarily asking YOU this, because as you've said, you can't quote the laws...just something to think about)

A legal language requirement woud mean you would also have to offer all your publications in ANY language (that is, if the law did not specify which languages were required) and that you provide service in ANY language.
AkhPhasa
19-05-2005, 22:40
It's about money in America, like everything else. Actual minority rights mean nothing unless there is a buck to be made.
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 22:42
There is no official language in the U.S. Many documents are printed up in multiple languages, such as safety warnings, diclaimers, instructions etc. On products, many companies simply print it in multiple languages because if they don't, someone else will and will steal that part of the market. The free market economy by itself protects minority languages; stuff in Spanish is everywhere even without government intervention.

The US is very proud of it's government which has historically kept out of people's lives (current administration and it's Patriot Act aside), and so I doubt there is any law forcing people to protect languages.
So, do you think there is anything to worry about for English speakers who live in an area where English is the minority language? If there are no legal protections, there are no legal requirements that government services (including education) be offered in English. (or any other language for that matter)
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 22:45
It's about money in America, like everything else. Actual minority rights mean nothing unless there is a buck to be made.
Well, minority rights are a bit more complex. We can't talk about overall minority/majority on a national basis. We have to look at regions. Some areas will have one linguistic and cultural majority (Spanish, English, Cantonese, whatever), and other regions will have different linguistic and cultural makeups. So. If you live in a region where Urdu is the majority language, and all the schools teach in Urdu, and all the government services (including road signs etc) are in Urdu, DO YOU HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHT TO YOUR LANGUAGE?

It seems that so far, in most cases the answer is no. That doesn't mean it DOESN'T happen...just that it isn't REQUIRED to happen.
Robot ninja pirates
19-05-2005, 22:46
So, do you think there is anything to worry about for English speakers who live in an area where English is the minority language? If there are no legal protections, there are no legal requirements that government services (including education) be offered in English. (or any other language for that matter)
No, they don't, because things often sort themselves out without the government intervention. The local education system will come up with a custom policy to meet the needs of the area. People will themseleves become bilingual, without government intervention. L.A. has a very high Hispanic population, but still a lot of English speakers. Things work out.
Isanyonehome
19-05-2005, 22:47
So, do you think there is anything to worry about for English speakers who live in an area where English is the minority language? If there are no legal protections, there are no legal requirements that government services (including education) be offered in English. (or any other language for that matter)

Nothing to worry about. If a person doesnt know the language used in the area he lives in then he better educate himself; or suffer. Simple, and requiress less govt interferance and related stupidity.
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 22:50
Yeah...I'm not finding anything about these cases...and if the navajo sued, what law did they use as a basis for their case?

Point being...there is no federal legislation requiring services in a particular language, is there?

But since you don't have an official language in the first place....is there any law that says services have to be in English? Is there any legislation that addresses the issue of language? (For example, in Canada, any citizen no matter where they live, have the right to a trial in either French or English...but no such right is given to people that speak any other languages)
it might be on a state by state basis but i think the navajo thing is federal. the only things that would HAVE to be in another language would be government publications, tests and ballots.

put SOCORRO NAVAJO VOTE into google and it will show you a discussion of the voting rights acts of '65 and '73 and how they pertain to native people.
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 22:52
Is this interpreter offered as a legal requirement in terms of language, or a part of the way you meet a legal requirement to provide treatment? The difference is in the focus. Is this about language, or about the need to provide EFFECTIVE treatment, a need that would be hindered by a lack of linguistic communication? (I'm not necessarily asking YOU this, because as you've said, you can't quote the laws...just something to think about)

A legal language requirement woud mean you would also have to offer all your publications in ANY language (that is, if the law did not specify which languages were required) and that you provide service in ANY language.

Actually, I do remember that part from training on the subject, and if I wasn't so lazy, I could even look up that law for you, but it is burried amidst the million and one other training materials and assorted regulations (literally thousands of pages of information) necessary for a CMH. Anyway, the gist of it is that it is necessary for the purpose of communication to provide treatment. We aren't required to provide work stations for employes in multiple languages or anything like that, just what we need to communicate with a consumer(PC for patient).
Gutax
19-05-2005, 22:54
It's about money in America, like everything else. Actual minority rights mean nothing unless there is a buck to be made.

Is it diffrent anywhere else?
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 22:57
No, they don't, because things often sort themselves out without the government intervention. The local education system will come up with a custom policy to meet the needs of the area. People will themseleves become bilingual, without government intervention. L.A. has a very high Hispanic population, but still a lot of English speakers. Things work out.
So, if you end up living in an area with a majority language other than your own, the education system will somehow go through the enormous expense of providing eduction in YOUR language just for the heck of it? More likely, you will have to move to a region where your language is supported. Is that necessarily a choice for everyone?

Now, if you don't mind your children being education in a language that is not your mother tongue, and may not necessarily reflect the majority NATIONAL language, fine. If this is not the case, however, what recourse do you have?

(This is weird, because in arguing this I am sounding like one of those 'save English' people and I'm SO not!!!! :confused: )
Sinuhue
19-05-2005, 23:02
it might be on a state by state basis but i think the navajo thing is federal. the only things that would HAVE to be in another language would be government publications, tests and ballots.

put SOCORRO NAVAJO VOTE into google and it will show you a discussion of the voting rights acts of '65 and '73 and how they pertain to native people.
Okay, this is what I've found:

Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act also protects language minorities by making it illegal to discriminate in

voting based on one’s membership in a linguistic minority group. The language provisions of Section 5

serve to remove language as a barrier to political participation by ensuring that voting districts with a

designated percentage of minority language speakers will be provided with ballots and voting support in

their native language. Districts are determined using a formula (42 U.S.C. 1973b (f)), and those identified

must submit all voting changes for federal approval and make all election proceedings bilingual
This pertains only to voting, but it is a case where a the law has been interpreted to protect minority language rights (rather than a law which explicitly addresses language minority rights).

Okay, so far so good. Any other examples?
Sinuhue
20-05-2005, 00:13
Weird. The second you bring up illegal immigration, the language issue flares right up, but separate from immigration, no one seems to want to discuss it??
Myrmidonisia
20-05-2005, 00:29
Ah Capitalism...the great equalizer:)...
Which causes me to consider that perhaps English speakers in the US have a case, if, for example, they tried to access a government service, but were not offered service in English, and there was no legislation REQUIRING that they be served in English.

The market won't necessarily provide protection. If a particular market is of a majority language group, and it does not make financial sense to cater to the minority language groups, you're out of luck, Chuck:).
While what you describe is a technical possibility, I don't think it's likely. The government has inertia to overcome. If the worst happens and you scenario pans out, we're left with the choices of learning the language or moving.

Better to keep the federal government out of the equation. It doesn't make any more sense to require Spanish traffic signs in North Dakota than it does to require French signs in B.C. (Oh, do I wish I could go to Comox again and buy some salmon)

Now what the states decide to do is another matter. If California goes off the deep end and requires that all material offered by the government should be printed in ten different languages, that's their business. We presume that the state governments are responsive to the needs of their citizens. Sometimes we presume a lot.
Robot ninja pirates
20-05-2005, 02:13
So, if you end up living in an area with a majority language other than your own, the education system will somehow go through the enormous expense of providing eduction in YOUR language just for the heck of it? More likely, you will have to move to a region where your language is supported. Is that necessarily a choice for everyone?

Now, if you don't mind your children being education in a language that is not your mother tongue, and may not necessarily reflect the majority NATIONAL language, fine. If this is not the case, however, what recourse do you have?

(This is weird, because in arguing this I am sounding like one of those 'save English' people and I'm SO not!!!! :confused: )
People will find a way. If there is a substantial amount of people speaking a minority language and not the majority one, people will be put in classes depending on what they speak. Some sort of solution will be thought of, depending on the case. Or, maybe people just learn the language. When you're immersed in a language, you learn it pretty quickly.

The government is currently not interfering, and there are no cases of people not being able to get an education because of language barriers. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Nekone
20-05-2005, 02:57
yes

you can ask to take the drivers permit test in spanish (or whatever language you read, provided there are enough native <X> speakers in the state.)

the same with ballots. our county has a small indian resevation on it, a couple hundred navajo ballots have to be printed up for every election.

there are other provisions im sure.

we have NO official languageSad but true. I went to renew my licence and saw a woman taking the written test. there was a translater sitting next to her translating the quiz and answers.

If she can't read the test, what about when she's driving?
Nekone
20-05-2005, 02:59
So, if you end up living in an area with a majority language other than your own, the education system will somehow go through the enormous expense of providing eduction in YOUR language just for the heck of it? More likely, you will have to move to a region where your language is supported. Is that necessarily a choice for everyone?

Now, if you don't mind your children being education in a language that is not your mother tongue, and may not necessarily reflect the majority NATIONAL language, fine. If this is not the case, however, what recourse do you have?

(This is weird, because in arguing this I am sounding like one of those 'save English' people and I'm SO not!!!! :confused: )more often than not, people will start teaching others their language. the educational system can (if petitioned) try to set up a language course, but often time, children learn the language from older/other relatives or friends.
Katganistan
20-05-2005, 03:03
Well, minority rights are a bit more complex. We can't talk about overall minority/majority on a national basis. We have to look at regions. Some areas will have one linguistic and cultural majority (Spanish, English, Cantonese, whatever), and other regions will have different linguistic and cultural makeups. So. If you live in a region where Urdu is the majority language, and all the schools teach in Urdu, and all the government services (including road signs etc) are in Urdu, DO YOU HAVE ANY LEGAL RIGHT TO YOUR LANGUAGE?

It seems that so far, in most cases the answer is no. That doesn't mean it DOESN'T happen...just that it isn't REQUIRED to happen.


I can tell you that in terms of education in NYS, students are educated in bilingual classes if their first language is not English. That is, the class is taught by a teacher who speaks both fluently, and who teaches predominantly in English but can shift into the other language (Urdu, Russian, Cantonese, Bengali) to explain concepts and provide a translation.

Statewide exams (the Regents) are provided in a number of languages EXCEPT the English Regents (which measures how well one understands and can write in English.) However, for the English Regests, Second Language Learners get additional time and are provided with translation dictionaries in their own language. These dictionaries do not DEFINE the words; simply give their counterpart in the child's native language.

Additionally, my school offers evening classes -- free -- for parents who wish to learn/improve their English language skills.
NERVUN
20-05-2005, 03:10
It's left up to the states to decide and is, of course, a hot button issue in those states with a high non-native English speaking population. One of the reasons it's a state issue is that an offical language never was written into the Constutition and therefore it falls under the state's rights amendment. That's why the English Only movement is trying hard to get a Constutitional admendment for setting the offical language to English.

Historically however, the US Goverment has tried its best to stamp out minority languages and move everyone to English, even without legislation to do so. Good examples of this would be the Indian schools nation wide that took Native American children away from their families and beat them if they spoke their native language.

It's only been recently that idea like bi-lingual education and protection of native languages has come up, which is probably why the English Only movement has been screaming.
Katganistan
20-05-2005, 03:24
It's left up to the states to decide and is, of course, a hot button issue in those states with a high non-native English speaking population. One of the reasons it's a state issue is that an offical language never was written into the Constutition and therefore it falls under the state's rights amendment. That's why the English Only movement is trying hard to get a Constutitional admendment for setting the offical language to English.

Historically however, the US Goverment has tried its best to stamp out minority languages and move everyone to English, even without legislation to do so. Good examples of this would be the Indian schools nation wide that took Native American children away from their families and beat them if they spoke their native language.

It's only been recently that idea like bi-lingual education and protection of native languages has come up, which is probably why the English Only movement has been screaming.


...well, bilingual education has been going on, as far as I know, in NYS at least 40 years.

I'm divided, honestly, on this issue. Clearly, medical and legal and transportation services need to be provided in multiple languages. HOWEVER, I think that not requiring that English be taught to students in addition to their own language is only going to handicap their abilities to move ahead in society.
Calpania
20-05-2005, 03:31
The language law issue is quite a large one here in New Zealand. The indigenous people here are the Maori, and they have full legal recognition of their language and culture, to the point where all government departments, and a great deal of executive paperwork, is provided in both Maori and English.

The thing is, there is no legal recognition of English as a national language - the only language New Zealand has recognised is Maori (and it's spoken by roughly 10% of our population - around 400 000 people, although there's some discussion about just what 'spoken' means ie. how fluent, how often it is used, and so forth, which clouds the exact number a little).

Back when the bilingual policy was introduced - just on 20 years ago, now - there was a general feeling of apathy toward it, which has now grown into something a little more resentful. The Maori population in New Zealand constitutes 8% of the total, and a significant and growing portion of our population are immigrants who speak very different languages - mostly Chinese and Japanese, but also a few Koreans and South-East Asians. And quite a few Phillipinos as well.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that even when legal recognition is given to a language, it risks building resentment. A lot of non-Maori speakers in New Zealand - English speakers included - feel left out. The local media doesn't help either, what with all the articles about tribal corruption and greed (good old capitalism at work again).
AkhPhasa
20-05-2005, 03:35
"...requiress less govt interferance and related stupidity.

Hahahaha, I like that. :)
AkhPhasa
20-05-2005, 03:45
Is it diffrent anywhere else?

Yes, it is! It is different in many places, in fact.

In Canada for example we are required to learn French in school, regardless of the fact that virtually nobody on the West Coast speaks it, and it costs a fortune to provide multilingual services where they are not really required. It would make much more sense to make Cantonese the second priority after English here, but we don't do it, because Cantonese is not "one of the two official languages". It's rather silly. But it has nothing to do with money. It is more about drying the tears of les Quebecois, who felt that it was unfair that they (being surrounded by English-speakers in North America) had to learn English to get by, but the rest of the population of North America do not likewise need to learn French. Trudeau made bi-lingualism the policy of the Federal Government for Canada, so we all had to learn a language we don't need to know.
Hueron
20-05-2005, 04:29
going back a bit:



"People are allowed to speak any language they damn well please. If they dont know English in a heavily english spoken area then they will probably run into some problems when it comes to getting things done. "

Actually, there have been multiple legislations in multiple states that have created "english-only" laws. Often they have had supposed limits so they are not applied to (for example) "emergency situations, religious purpouses and for foreign phrases used during primarily English communications about art."


:sniper:
Sinuhue
20-05-2005, 19:47
Yes, it is! It is different in many places, in fact.

In Canada for example we are required to learn French in school, regardless of the fact that virtually nobody on the West Coast speaks it, and it costs a fortune to provide multilingual services where they are not really required. It would make much more sense to make Cantonese the second priority after English here, but we don't do it, because Cantonese is not "one of the two official languages". It's rather silly. But it has nothing to do with money. It is more about drying the tears of les Quebecois, who felt that it was unfair that they (being surrounded by English-speakers in North America) had to learn English to get by, but the rest of the population of North America do not likewise need to learn French. Trudeau made bi-lingualism the policy of the Federal Government for Canada, so we all had to learn a language we don't need to know.
Actually no, Canadians are NOT required to learn French in school. This is a common misconception that people have about Canada. We are not forced to be bilingual. Some school districts may make this a requirement, but there is no federal requirement that Canadians learn French and English.
Tekania
20-05-2005, 20:09
I'm doing a tiny little research project on Canadian language laws, and the way they apply both to federal services and education. Our two official languages, French and English, are protected in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but in the sense that they are protected as MINORITY languages. Meaning, if English speakers are the minority in the province, federal legislation protects this minority by guaranteeing federal services in English (and visa versa for French speakers) based on a percentage (5% of population) or a number (5000 in a particular region). Education is a bit trickier since other than Native Education, it is a provincial/territorial responsibility rather than a federal one. Section 23 of the Charter states that education in the minority language will be offered where numbers warrant...but there is not real definition of what that number is, and those seeking minority language rights may have to appeal to the Supreme Court for application of the law.

Anyway.

In the US, there seems to be a lot of fear/anger/ennui in regards to 'foreign' languages (especially Spanish)and the perception of minority language rights. However, is there ANY legislation in the US which actually PROTECTS minority language rights? Is there any law that requires that minority languages be promoted? Is there any real reason to believe that minority languages somehow pose a threat when English is your ONLY official language?

Discuss.

We have ESL (English as a Second Language) programs implimented in the Public Curriculum of Schools, as well as available amongst most of the social programs.

To that end, "minority" languages receive no "public" support, per se. English is the language of this Country.

When one goes to another country, they should know the language of that country, if they want to get by. I have no sympathy (personally) for non-english speakers in my country. There are programs available for them to learn our language, and if they do not want to, they can suffer the consequences.
Dempublicents1
20-05-2005, 20:32
Is this interpreter offered as a legal requirement in terms of language, or a part of the way you meet a legal requirement to provide treatment? The difference is in the focus. Is this about language, or about the need to provide EFFECTIVE treatment, a need that would be hindered by a lack of linguistic communication? (I'm not necessarily asking YOU this, because as you've said, you can't quote the laws...just something to think about)

I think it is more a way of meeting the legal requirements already there.

For instance, in the ballot example, not providing ballots in the native tongue was abridging the right to vote, so ballots had to be printed in more than one language.
Dempublicents1
20-05-2005, 20:37
Sad but true. I went to renew my licence and saw a woman taking the written test. there was a translater sitting next to her translating the quiz and answers.

If she can't read the test, what about when she's driving?

Have you ever wondered why the signs are different shapes and colors?

You aren't supposed to have to read the signs to get it - the whole point is that you can look at a sign briefly and figure out what it means.
Intangelon
20-05-2005, 20:51
Have you ever wondered why the signs are different shapes and colors?

You aren't supposed to have to read the signs to get it - the whole point is that you can look at a sign briefly and figure out what it means.

That's true, but the green and blue and brown "information" signs are all in English. A monolingual spanish speaker is gonna have a bitch of a time trying to figure out what exit to take or deciphering the flashing emergency message telling them about a delay or other circumstance on the road. While this driver is puzzling over what "soft shoulder" (or any of the other numerous road sign idioms) means, or is figuring out whether to get off at the Mukilteo Ferry exit or the Snohomish/Wenatchee exit, they are distracted and confused drivers. At 70mph, that's a problem.
Myrmidonisia
20-05-2005, 21:03
That's true, but the green and blue and brown "information" signs are all in English. A monolingual spanish speaker is gonna have a bitch of a time trying to figure out what exit to take or deciphering the flashing emergency message telling them about a delay or other circumstance on the road. While this driver is puzzling over what "soft shoulder" (or any of the other numerous road sign idioms) means, or is figuring out whether to get off at the Mukilteo Ferry exit or the Snohomish/Wenatchee exit, they are distracted and confused drivers. At 70mph, that's a problem.
Wait a minute! Mukiteo, Snohomish, and Wenatchee are all native american words. That isn't English. The only English stuff on those signs are the words "Exit 1 Mile". If a furriner can't hack that, he's in trouble.
Botswombata
20-05-2005, 21:21
The US has no official language. I many areas it has a prefered language. I live in a community that is about 30% hispanic. Many don't speak english. Our schools have a program where they can learn lessons in both English & spanish. I guess I don't see this disdain for foreign languages in my neck of the wood. Us crazy Iowans
It's also required at the University level in Iowa to complete 2 yrs of a foreign language. Many foreign language programs exist within our school systems. Our school newsletter is in English & Spanish.
No we are not all xenophobes over here like some think.
Suricata
21-05-2005, 20:34
Of course, it is worth noting that the USA do not use the English language at all, they just think they do. ;)

There is one place where you have to be able to understand and be able to make yourself be understood with spoken English. As far as I am aware, all international air traffic control is handled in English.
Celtlund
21-05-2005, 20:46
Anyway.

In the US, there seems to be a lot of fear/anger/ennui in regards to 'foreign' languages (especially Spanish)and the perception of minority language rights. However, is there ANY legislation in the US which actually PROTECTS minority language rights? Is there any law that requires that minority languages be promoted? Is there any real reason to believe that minority languages somehow pose a threat when English is your ONLY official language?


Discuss.

There are some laws that require drivers’ license exams in languages other than English. In addition, some schools have classes in languages other than English for non-English speakers. However, I think these laws are State rather than Federal.

Also, the US does not have an official language. There has been some discussion in the past about passing legislation at the Federal level to make English our official language.

I did read a while back that there is a town in Texas (I think) that has adopted Spanish as the official language of the town
Celtlund
21-05-2005, 20:52
But since you don't have an official language in the first place....is there any law that says services have to be in English? Is there any legislation that addresses the issue of language? (For example, in Canada, any citizen no matter where they live, have the right to a trial in either French or English...but no such right is given to people that speak any other languages)

In court non-English speakers are provided certified Interpreters. I don't know if that is done as a courtesy, or because of law. It would be rather difficult for a person to have a fair trial if they did not understand what was happening
Celtlund
21-05-2005, 21:02
Sad but true. I went to renew my licence and saw a woman taking the written test. there was a translater sitting next to her translating the quiz and answers.

If she can't read the test, what about when she's driving?

Isn't Hawaii using international road signs?
Celtlund
21-05-2005, 21:08
more often than not, people will start teaching others their language. the educational system can (if petitioned) try to set up a language course, but often time, children learn the language from older/other relatives or friends.

When I was in High School in the late 50's I had a friend who moved here from Germany when he was in grade school and it didn't take him long to learn the language. When we moved to Spain in the late 70's it didn't take my kids long to learn enough Spanish to be able to communicate with the Spanish kids. Most schools in the US now have ESL programs to teach non-English speakers the language.
Celtlund
21-05-2005, 21:15
Of course, it is worth noting that the USA do not use the English language at all, they just think they do. ;)

There is one place where you have to be able to understand and be able to make yourself be understood with spoken English. As far as I am aware, all international air traffic control is handled in English.

The standard for aviation technical manuals is also English.
Celtlund
21-05-2005, 21:53
It is so lonely here. Where did everyone go? :(