NationStates Jolt Archive

During last few months Russian planes have repeatedly been flying to and from Kaliningrad via Finland's airspace. Finnish authorities have demanded Russian counterparts to end these flights.

Yet again, the Russia has shown why it is not voluntary to go to army in Finland. We need every man to be army-trained the day our unstabil neighbours attack, this may happen in 2006 or 2200, nobody can predict what the leaders of Russia decide to do.

The Russians have forgotten Hayha.

The sniper?

The sniper?
The ultimate sniper.

There's also something demoralizing about a country that spends so much time in darkness, with men who ski out of the woodline, gun you down, and vanish.

During last few months Russian planes have repeatedly been flying to and from Kaliningrad via Finland's airspace. Finnish authorities have demanded Russian counterparts to end these flights.

Why doesn't the Finnish airforce protect it's airspace? Could you explain the situation further?

It's clear to me that Finland has to maintain a strong defensive force because of Russia. How do Fins feel about tensions between the two nations?

There's no major tension between Finland and Russia. The only thing causing grief I can think of, is that Russia doesn't recognize they started the Winter War (cos apparently somebody low ranking dude did during the Soviet era). No biggies. Those planes this thread is on about were flying to Kaliningrad from St. Petersburg (i think?). Knowing the state of Russian military today, they were drunk and made an error. No worries, next time we'll shoot them down for sure!

Edit: as i understand this, the violation happened over the sea (well, i'm sure of it). can't really do much about it. It's not like Finnish Air Force babysits every Russian military plane flying there.

Att göra:

Skjut ner de ryska planen
Återta Karelen
Tvinga Ryssland att erkänna att det var Sovjet som på Stalins order startade Vinterkriget 1939

Yes, I recall Stalin saying that Finland could not be neutral.

So he went in.

Hehe. Det skall vi göra... ...om du tycker att Finlands sak är vår. ;)

Yes, I recall Stalin saying that Finland could not be neutral.

So he went in.
Well, I won't go there, cos I know you know the history. I just say there's no neutral countries in a world war.

(Yay! Way to use your 1000th post!)

Hey Finland, Your airspace is so fat that it jumped up in the sky and got stuck!

From Russia with love.

Why would anyone want to invade Finland?

Edit: as i understand this, the violation happened over the sea (well, i'm sure of it). can't really do much about it. It's not like Finnish Air Force babysits every Russian military plane flying there.

Most nations find it disturbing to have airspace incursions by foreign military aircraft. Interceptions and escort would be the norm.

Yes indeed, you are right. And that's why this is an issue so big that it hit even the NS. But please look at a map. Kaliningrad is separate area the Russians only reach by sea or air. They fly there a LOT. I suspect we just don't have the capability to monitor all those flights from air. Finland has let Russia know this is unacceptable, and no doubt Russia says 'We agree'. (Anyways, we should wait for like 5 months before we attack Russia. The winter plays for us...)

Why would anyone want to invade Finland?

Probably. But Russia is probably playing a Air-Supremacy game with Finland to get them annoyed.

And about the Russian snipers that vanish? spooky! :eek: :confused:

Yes indeed, you are right. And that's why this is an issue so big that it hit even the NS. But please look at a map. Kaliningrad is separate area the Russians only reach by sea or air. They fly there a LOT. I suspect we just don't have the capability to monitor all those flights from air. Finland has let Russia know this is unacceptable, and no doubt Russia says 'We agree'. (Anyways, we should wait for like 5 months before we attack Russia. The winter plays for us...)
Meh, more probably some kind of overflight agreement will be worked out. Even Cuba lets US airplanes fly over its airspace as long as they do it above a certain altitude and on their way to somewhere else.

Probably. But Russia is probably playing a Air-Supremacy game with Finland to get them annoyed.

I guess. What fun is it to be a big country if you can't mess around with smaller ones?;)

It was about a Finnish sniper, actually. The Russian sniper vanished from the chow line.

Ghehehe... like Russia has to play an air-supremacy game with Finland. We gladly admit they have more planes.

But please look at a map. Kaliningrad is separate area the Russians only reach by sea or air

So would it not less threatening to fly over Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia enroute to saint Petersburg? It seems provocative to enter Finnish airspace.

And I agree that an overflight agreement would be the most practical means to avoid tensions.

You have better alcohol, and better saunas, and much better food.

And it goes without saying that Finnish women look better. If I wanted to marry a potato farming woman who looked like a cow, I'd go to Russia.

"Airspace violations prevented by force if necessary":

http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/index_en.dsp

So would it not less threatening to fly over Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia enroute to saint Petersburg? It seems provocative to enter Finnish airspace.

And I agree that an overflight agreement would be the most practical means to avoid tensions.
It would be less threatening to Finns...and since the Baltic states have weaker military forces and real problems with the Russians (like border disputes), it would also be more provocative. An agreement would most definately be needed... I just don't think one is coming with all the problems with Russia and the Baltic states.

You have better alcohol, and better saunas, and much better food.

And it goes without saying that Finnish women look better. If I wanted to marry a potato farming woman who looked like a cow, I'd go to Russia.
Well, all things subjective aside, ... ...well that left too little to work with. All Vodkas are the same really, saunas; i don't go to sauna (it's an energy issue for me) and food...well, you're one in a million if you think Finnish cuisine is 'haute'. :D

Well, all things subjective aside, ... ...well that left too little to work with. All Vodkas are the same really, saunas; i don't go to sauna (it's an energy issue for me) and food...well, you're one in a million if you think Finnish cuisine is 'haute'. :D
Better than Russian food.

During last few months Russian planes have repeatedly been flying to and from Kaliningrad via Finland's airspace. Finnish authorities have demanded Russian counterparts to end these flights.

Yet again, the Russia has shown why it is not voluntary to go to army in Finland. We need every man to be army-trained the day our unstabil neighbours attack, this may happen in 2006 or 2200, nobody can predict what the leaders of Russia decide to do.

We'll send you another few hundred Brewster Buffalos to even the score. :)

http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/buffalo-01.jpg

http://www.warbirdalley.com/buffalo.htm

We'll send you another few hundred Brewster Buffalos to even the score. :)

http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/buffalo-01.jpg

http://www.warbirdalley.com/buffalo.htm
LMAO
Thanks, well those were needed then. And the aviators flying those did some miracles. Apparently those would be needed now... but we have f-15s now.. a slightly modified version of Brewster Buffalo. :)

LMAO
Thanks, well those were needed then. And the aviators flying those did some miracles. Apparently those would be needed now... but we have f-15s now.. a slightly modified version of Brewster Buffalo. :)

Yeah, but think of the look on that Su-27 or Mig-29 pilot's face... ;)

Sure! We'd surprise them with our slowness!

LMAO
Thanks, well those were needed then. And the aviators flying those did some miracles. Apparently those would be needed now... but we have f-15s now.. a slightly modified version of Brewster Buffalo. :)

F-18.

However, I used to think that the Saab Draken that Finland flew was one of the prettiest fighters.

oh, sorry *all ashamed now*

Artillery man meself, don't know much about them flying things. A bunch of witchery if you ask me...

EDIT: yeah Drakens! Pretty! But I do think the Air Force is looking summink beyond looks...I don't know...

If the Russians don't make an agreement with the Finns, It will suck to be the Russians. Historically the Finns are tough opponents, wily and clever, and I'd wager they have better gear than their Rus counterparts.
(damn, almost said "the Reds"...shows my era.)

Back in the cold-war days, those of us who thought about it enough to do any research figured that the Finns would probably be the one country in the area that the Soviets would have to completely destroy with nukes, because they wouldn't surrender.

That's maybe a bit of hype, but then again...

I think the Russkies maybe oughta reconsider their military overflight paths, or do some damage-control-diplomacy before they get their fingers in the shredder.

Actually, I don't really think there is much to worry at the moment. Considering the fact that Russia is still stuck in Tsetsenia, (Chezchinya? Czeznya? Cezchzniyaiya? Whatever...) poor and lamely armed country fighing disorganized guerilla warfare against everything Russia has to send there, except nukes, it doesn't seem likely that they'd consider any agression in near future, not atleast against EU member in a region not that important to them at the time beeing.
I think countries like Kazachstan and Turkmenia are in bibber danger, though US military has been based on the area and not even the Russians are stupid enough to piss Bush off.
Still, it's better to have prepared. We aren't in danger now, but situation can change in few years, and if we show any signs of weakening im sure someone in their staff will start to draw new plans again... So let's jstu buy few Hornets more and kick those drunken cossacks in their puny Tupolev's to hell outta our airspace!

Oh, let's stay even moderately down to earth. We don't stand a chance today. Not if Russia isn't attacked like so hard from somewhere else. And that was the case 60+ years back too.

Your comments do stroke the egoes of Finns... but the factual shredder.. i'm afraid not.

I'm guessing you are a Finn Madnestan..? :)

Oh, let's stay even moderately down to earth. We don't stand a chance today. Not if Russia isn't attacked like so hard from somewhere else. And that was the case 60+ years back too.

Your comments do stroke the egoes of Finns... but the factual shredder.. i'm afraid not.

I meant the peace time, m8! :D IN PEACE TIME to escort them out of airspace. When in war, they'd fill the air with their MiG's. Unfortunately we can't keep up an airforce capable of keeping the air superiority, but they need to see that they can't just do what they want with us in the time beeing, that's my point.

About land warfare, I have to disagree with you. Yes, they could take our main cities like Helsinki (GODDAMIT!), Tampere (That's not nice..), Oulu (Hmm..) and Turku (Thank you, dear russians!). But as we have a trained reserve of 350,000 and some modern weapons too. we could certainly kick some major ass in a guerilla war Chechnya can't compare with. And as long Russian generals know that conquering Finland would recuire years of bitter fighting and turning half of the country in to a nuclear wasteland, in other words making that kind of an operation too expensive for them, then our Army has proven its worth.

Ja juu, oon suomesta. Muistaakseni jotain lätkästä selitimmä tuossa joku aika sitten...?

Oh, let's stay even moderately down to earth. We don't stand a chance today. Not if Russia isn't attacked like so hard from somewhere else. And that was the case 60+ years back too.

Your comments do stroke the egoes of Finns... but the factual shredder.. i'm afraid not.

Well...please remember that my impression comes from several years ago. We always presumed the russians could Destroy finland, but they wouldn't be able to conquer it.

Conquest is much more difficult than destruction, and the terrain doesn't lend itself to Soviet-style tactics. further, I'd wager that even if the rest of the EU decided to sit it out, the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, and Sweden wouldn't let the Russians have an easy time of it. Finland would Not the the Czech treatment and be handed to an aggressor by their allies in an appeasement move for a "Peace of paper".

The Finnish military can probably (short of nukes) hold the Soviets back long enough for their allies to reinforce, and I think even the Schroder government in Deutschland would step in on the Finnish side, so the russkies would, in fact, be fighting a larger force.

(I don't know about twenty years from now, when all us cold-war relics have retired... but right now, I don't see the Rus being that foolish.)

Actually, I don't really think there is much to worry at the moment. Considering the fact that Russia is still stuck in Tsetsenia, (Chezchinya? Czeznya? Cezchzniyaiya? Whatever...) poor and lamely armed country fighing disorganized guerilla warfare against everything Russia has to send there, except nukes, it doesn't seem likely that they'd consider any agression in near future, not atleast against EU member in a region not that important to them at the time beeing.
I think countries like Kazachstan and Turkmenia are in bibber danger, though US military has been based on the area and not even the Russians are stupid enough to piss Bush off.
Still, it's better to have prepared. We aren't in danger now, but situation can change in few years, and if we show any signs of weakening im sure someone in their staff will start to draw new plans again... So let's jstu buy few Hornets more and kick those drunken cossacks in their puny Tupolev's to hell outta our airspace!

Oh please! do you think russia is afraid of the states? russia is allied with china and all those communist bastards even bush isn't stupid enough to start a nucelar war against those poor devils, even if US won it would be at a very terrible price.

Cadillac, I agree with you in most issues, but about Sweden helping us out...
Sorry for the rude word, BOLLOCKS. Swedes are cowards (or having a wise foreign policy, depending how you look at it) and are destroying their army. It has been reduced greatly in both quantity and quality, and they haven't been too eager to join us before, so I dont think they'd do so this time neither. Propably send few medics and a battaillon of volunteers to be used ina silent sector like in last war...It's cheaper and more safely to just sit behind Finland and send few men to show they are on our side (politically), then let us do the fighting. So no reason to really count on them.
Hopely UK and USA, perhaps Germany and France too would send here something while we keep Ryssä's busy in our forests...

Oh please! do you think russia is afraid of the states? russia is allied with china and all those communist bastards even bush isn't stupid enough to start a nucelar war against those poor devils, even if US won it would be at a very terrible price.

Oh please read the post and think about it before you start to post an answer!
Do I think russia is afraid of states? Hell yeah! As it is of course impossible for US to nuke Russia it is JUST AS IMPOSSIBLE for Russians to make any agression against States, neither. That's what they call a "balance".
And no, Russia is not allied with China, neither any "of those communist bastards" (retarded way to say North Korea) actually. Care to try again?

This should be interesting... however, I think I take my business down to the public house next to me flat and come back check this later. Don't go all nationalistic now hear... :D

Oh please! do you think russia is afraid of the states? russia is allied with china and all those communist bastards even bush isn't stupid enough to start a nucelar war against those poor devils, even if US won it would be at a very terrible price.

A price that the U.S. maintains a presence in europe specifically to show that we're willing to pay in order to prevent another Global War.

Russia and China have signed a non-aggression treaty, this doesn't mean they're good-buddies, it means that they're going to stop raiding each other's borders.
Big difference.

As for N.Korea, that's Beijing's goodbuddies, not Putin's.

Once you let the mushroom clouds out, it's over. Even with all the disarmament of the last twenty years, there are still plenty to render Earth uninhabitable and both sides still adhere to MAD where Nukes are concerned.
This throws it back into conventional-warfare land, and boot-to-the-ground, the Russian Army would be facing Finns, Yanks, Canucks, and Tommies at the very least. France maybe, depending on the wind direction, and probably Germany as well-in fact, a bit more likely, since if the Russians are moving against Finland, Poland and Germany are the next logical targets, and even a Eurogreen German wouldn't be keen on becoming a subject of a restored Russian Empire.

Cadillac, I agree with you in most issues, but about Sweden helping us out...
Sorry for the rude word, BOLLOCKS. Swedes are cowards (or having a wise foreign policy, depending how you look at it) and are destroying their army. It has been reduced greatly in both quantity and quality, and they haven't been too eager to join us before, so I dont think they'd do so this time neither. Propably send few medics and a battaillon of volunteers to be used ina silent sector like in last war...It's cheaper and more safely to just sit behind Finland and send few men to show they are on our side (politically), then let us do the fighting. So no reason to really count on them.
Hopely UK and USA, perhaps Germany and France too would send here something while we keep Ryssä's busy in our forests...

Ah... damn. You're closer to "On-Site" than I am. I didn't know they'd degraded so far.

If the Russians don't make an agreement with the Finns, It will suck to be the Russians. Historically the Finns are tough opponents, wily and clever, and I'd wager they have better gear than their Rus counterparts.
I love the way people on this forum always speculate about large-scale war everytime there is a bit of tension between nations. There will be no armed conflict between Russia and Finland in the near future.

I love the way people on this forum always speculate about large-scale war everytime there is a bit of tension between nations. There will be no armed conflict between Russia and Finland in the near future.

Everybody knows that. We can still speculate, can't we? Just saying that "nothing will happen, stfu or be idiots" aint going to make a real conversation, really.

Didn't the Soviet Governor of Finland get knifed in the back within hours of his arrival in Helsinki? Or something like that. I had a Fencing Coach that was a Finn, and he loved to tell stories about how the Finns made it basicly impossible for Russuian lifeforms to exist inside Finland during WWII.

I hate vodka and needn't travel beyond my own back yard here in Canada to find the full Sauna experience, so I don't much give a fig about Finland....except that by some fluke understood only by the elder gods, for some reason, Finland is home to my favourite electronic music producer, Bangkok Impact aka 8-bit Rockers aka Lolita Strap. Nothing must impede this genius from making music, especially not the Russians. Though the Russians definitely make better anologue synths (pretty easy, since the Fins make NO synths)

Didn't the Soviet Governor of Finland get knifed in the back within hours of his arrival in Helsinki? Or something like that. I had a Fencing Coach that was a Finn, and he loved to tell stories about how the Finns made it basicly impossible for Russuian lifeforms to exist inside Finland during WWII.
)

Actually, Finland was never occupied by Soviets. Only Russian governor shot in here was the man named Bobrikov, who got killed by a patriot of ours, a student called Schauman. But that happened in 1867 or something, and the weapon was pistol, so I really don't know what murder you are talking about. About Russian lifeforms in here during the WW2, only lifeforms there was were those Red Army troopers who made it never deeper than a some 80 kilometres in to our soil. Thei life, however, was made as miserable s possible by our soldiers, my both grandfathers among them of course :p *proud smile* who kept them out and made sure they were not to place any governors in Finland.

were they military planes or commercial?

Didn't the Soviet Governor of Finland get knifed in the back within hours of his arrival in Helsinki? Or something like that. I had a Fencing Coach that was a Finn, and he loved to tell stories about how the Finns made it basicly impossible for Russuian lifeforms to exist inside Finland during WWII.

I so like this kind of interpretation of history right here... and if i can have your attention after you laughed it off, i DO!!!

History as a science can not manage without the laughable.

and 'The Downmarching Void', I will personally pay those fencing lessons. Just haul your ass down here. :)

Finnish government says that meaning of this provocative flights is to see how Finland, EU and even NATO reacts.

So,they are testing our defense capability with these actions for future needs. Unlike Estonia, which annouses all airspace violations right away, Finland has tried to solve the issue quietly in the cabinets. Seems to me that the Russians don't take it seriously. Our prime minister Matti Vanhanen is going to Moscow next month. I Hope negotiations will be succesfull, otherwise planes illegally in airspace should be taken down.

And it goes without saying that Finnish women look better.

I've seen Helioterra. She is Finnish and hotter than hell. Hence Finnish women are hot.

Well, all things subjective aside, ... ...well that left too little to work with. All Vodkas are the same really, saunas; i don't go to sauna (it's an energy issue for me) and food...well, you're one in a million if you think Finnish cuisine is 'haute'. :D
Brilliant!
But, no no, vodkas are not the same. I prefer vodkas distilled from barsley to potato/apple/what ever you can get -vodkas
And electric sauna is an insult to sauna culture.

Finnish government says that meaning of this provocative flights is to see how Finland, EU and even NATO reacts.

So,they are testing our defense capability with these actions for future needs. Unlike Estonia, which annouses all airspace violations right away, Finland has tried to solve the issue quietly in the cabinets. Seems to me that the Russians don't take it seriously. Our prime minister Matti Vanhanen is going to Moscow next month. I Hope negotiations will be succesfull, otherwise planes illegally in airspace should be taken down.
Antti the cruel...goooosh, what a name you got. Planning to invade some areas in near future? ;)

You're correct. And this is not the first time they are testing our reactions. They used to do it all the time but when their economy finally collapsed, they had to stop it for a while. They just couldn't afford to fly planes for no other reason than testing our reactions. And they still don't. As already said, those planes have a real destination.

Actually, Finland was never occupied by Soviets. Only Russian governor shot in here was the man named Bobrikov, who got killed by a patriot of ours, a student called Schauman. But that happened in 1867 or something, and the weapon was pistol, so I really don't know what murder you are talking about...
krhm..a little reminder. The murder of general-governor Bobrikov in 1904 was an important incident on Finland's route to independency. He was the symbol of the oppression era. Why Russia did not react as heavily to this act as to other similar attacks in other Russian autonomies is widely disputed.

"Airspace violations prevented by force if necessary":

http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/index_en.dsp

From the SAME site...

"Air-defence includes anti-aircraft defenses."

No way...really?

Must be the translation... :rolleyes: :confused:

were they military planes or commercial?
Silly question. Of course it was a military plane. The russians don't have commercial ones. They don't have commercial anything. That's the beauty of it all. Sure, they can call something a 'commercial'(for the lack of a better word in my limited vocabulary) plane, but just tip off the wings and you've got a missile. They go fuckin' boom. I'm not even talking about the regular Hollywood planecrashing boom, I'm talking about a missile boom. Everything made in Russia explodes. You can quote me on that.
I should know. I'm somewhat of a 'neo-commie', new to the ideology and fascinated by any history. Naturally, I collect crap from old socialist countries, mainly Ye Olde Soviet Union. Collecting is fun. The fun part is that they all are capable of exploding. I'm not even fucking kidding here. The only things from Russia that I haven't been able to explode by either using pressure or heat are flags and posters.

Isn't it fun when someone just rambles off topic and won't give a shit about the rest of you? You don't have to answer that. Seriously. Don't.

On the issue of the violation of airspace...eeh. Nasty little situation. While it's basically illegal and really fucking rude of them to do that, what the fuck can we do? Okay, so there's a chance that some equipment isn't quite as dated as theirs and a little more determination to go trough the whole deal...but seriously. What can we do? If Russia continues, we either have to roll over and give Putin's corrupted little anus a french kiss or go the really stupid way and shoot the fuckers down. Either way We Is Beetch.
Should this actually devolve to the state where armed forces are deployed, Finland can kiss itself goodbye, because there is no way anyone is going to help us. EU or not, the rest of Europe is going to "Oh, look at the time. Gotta go, see ya. Wouldn't wanna be ya" vareh quickly. Yankees? No dice. Knowing Bush's personal little witch hunt that Putin is more than glad to use as propaganda material, I'm quite positive that USA would be ready to send troops to aid the russian army(as if needed).

But I'm thinking we'll just play the bitch and let them go through our airspace with permission. I wanna move to Jamaica.

During last few months Russian planes have repeatedly been flying to and from Kaliningrad via Finland's airspace. Finnish authorities have demanded Russian counterparts to end these flights.

Yet again, the Russia has shown why it is not voluntary to go to army in Finland. We need every man to be army-trained the day our unstabil neighbours attack, this may happen in 2006 or 2200, nobody can predict what the leaders of Russia decide to do.


Insult them back, fly into their airspace and deploy many a plague infested body!

Silly question. Of course it was a military plane. The russians don't have commercial ones. They don't have commercial anything. That's be beauty of it all.
:D
btw they make very good cameras. and AK-47...

:D
btw they make very good cameras. and AK-47...
Which EXPLODE.

Insult them back, fly into their airspace and deploy many a plague infested body!
They wouldn't even notice.

Which EXPLODE.
I don't have any weird fetishes to explode things...I rather use my Russian equipment with care. That is the cameras...I shoot only pictures.

Antti the cruel...goooosh, what a name you got. Planning to invade some areas in near future? ;)

That's my intention. I will become a brutal dictator who needs a lot more space than we got now!

That's my intention. I will become a brutal dictator who needs a lot more space than we got now!
Are you running for president first?
We? You mean Finns? Are you heading to east or west? I'd suggest west. Those countries are in better condition.

Heh, this whole thread reminds me of the Soviet submarines that allegdy(sp) entered Swedish waters in the 80's. I was in the navy at the time so I've been on some of those sub hunts. The russians have always done what ever pleases them. Its not like Sweden or Finland is going to retaliate by dropping a bomb on the kremlin... lol

Heh, this whole thread reminds me of the Soviet submarines that allegdy(sp) entered Swedish waters in the 80's. I was in the navy at the time so I've been on some of those sub hunts. The russians have always done what ever pleases them. Its not like Sweden or Finland is going to retaliate by dropping a bomb on the kremlin... lol
Did you find any? ;)
I have to say we had few good laughs with your subhunts...

Did you find any? ;)
I have to say we had few good laughs with your subhunts...

Not me personally no. lol.
Well, the problem is not finding them. Because thats pretty easy. So yes, several submarines were found.
The problem was, that since the Swedish govt at time didnt want to provoke the Soviet union, The navy wasnt allowed to use torpedos ( cuz that would actually destroy the sub, kill the crew and wouldnt improve international relations lol) The navy was only allowed to use depth charges. a weapon that is designed to damage the sub and force her to surface. But this weapon is also highly inefficient as you basically need a direct hit in order to succeed.

So yes, severel subs were found allthough only 1 was captured ( and that becasue they sailed on a ground. lol)

Not me personally no. lol.
Well, the problem is not finding them. Because thats pretty easy. So yes, several submarines were found.
The problem was, that since the Swedish govt at time didnt want to provoke the Soviet union, The navy wasnt allowed to use torpedos ( cuz that would actually destroy the sub, kill the crew and wouldnt improve international relations lol) The navy was only allowed to use depth charges. a weapon that is designed to damage the sub and force her to surface. But this weapon is also highly inefficient as you basically need a direct hit in order to succeed.

So yes, severel subs were found allthough only 1 was captured ( and that becasue they sailed on a ground. lol)

Ah yes, that one. If it is the one that was on display in Djurgården just outside the Vasa museum then I've been inside of the sub. It was kind of cool, but so little space inside. :O

From the SAME site...

"Air-defence includes anti-aircraft defenses."

No way...really?

Must be the translation... :rolleyes: :confused:


No it's not the translation, it's you. I don't understand what is fun in it. The site quite simply has links to more spesific information for navy, infantry and others. Then those links have a comment line. I think it's a good line for Air-defense.

No it's not the translation, it's you. I don't understand what is fun in it. The site quite simply has links to more spesific information for navy, infantry and others. Then those links have a comment line. I think it's a good line for Air-defense.

Again...

"Air-defence includes anti-aircraft defenses"

"Air-defence" would automatically imply and require "anti-aircraft defenses".

Thus there is no need to state that Air-defense inlcudes anti-aircraft defenses.

The whole sentence is a little "repetitive redundant"...which is why I find it amusing :p

Normally airspace penetration is countered by aircraft interception, but firing on the intruder would have to be authorized at the highest level for obvious reason. The Finn's deploy US FA-18's for that purpose.

This is what the Finnish military says it will do:

"Identification aircraft are dispatched when a flying object in Finnish airspace cannot otherwise be identified. An identification aircraft determines the individual details of the object and guides foreign aircraft out of Finnish airspace or forces them to land if required."

From: http://www.mil.fi/maavoimat/kalustoesittely/00106_en.dsp

I can't see a military NOT intercepting, got to show you're ready to repel invaders and all that. Wouldn't do to look weak. Has it been reported by the Finnish media that interceptions have occurred? Would the Finnish government share that information with the media? Since information of the penetration is public knowledge one would think that the military would like the opportunity to show how well it protects it's motherland.

I hope that future violations of airspace, and I'm betting there will be more, are met with a show of determination by the Finn's. Intercept the planes and force them down or out. Force them to land on Finnish soil and get some attention from the rest of the world. I'm of the view that if you give the Russian's an inch they will demand a mile.

Hehe. Det skall vi göra... ...om du tycker att Finlands sak är vår. ;)
Jag anser att mitt lands (Sverige alltså) utrikespolitik under och efter andra världskriget är varit bland det mest pinsamma i vår historia (Finland, vår ''neutralitet'' och baltutlämningen), så jo; Finlands sak är min.

snip

Do you have SA missles? USE EM!

Do you have SA missles? USE EM!
Yes of course! Russian total war would definately help the Finnish industry and we would be one step closer to world peace :rolleyes:

Do you have SA missles? USE EM!

You're joking, right?

It has actually to do with Nato, they want to test how they react (from swedish newspaper, DN). Not that FIN is in the Nato, but it is just a pure Nato thing...
Not that the russ has much of an airforce, thinking about the economic situation. Nato would beat the crap out of them.

Yes thank you, we already know that. The problem is that it doesn't make it any less of an intrusion, and if Finland were a superpower (Oh dreams of grand Scandinavia) it would be considered a declaration of war by the Finnish government.