NationStates Jolt Archive


Even in this century...

Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 15:46
the "blame" of having an unplanned pregnancy falls squarely on the female.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/19/pregnant.student.ap/index.html

Congrats to this girl. She's going through rough times, but she wasn't going to let anyone stand in her way.

Notice, of course, that they had no problem at all with the father of the child continuing to attend school and graduating with his peers.
Vittos Ordination
19-05-2005, 15:51
They said she was denied because of safety concerns (very well could be bullshit), which would be why the father could walk. But wouldn't the school be required to accomodate her?
Sdaeriji
19-05-2005, 15:54
They said she was denied because of safety concerns (very well could be bullshit), which would be why the father could walk. But wouldn't the school be required to accomodate her?

If there were legitimate safety concerns, then there's still no reason to leave her name off of the graduation program, as far as I can tell.
Grave_n_idle
19-05-2005, 15:54
the "blame" of having an unplanned pregnancy falls squarely on the female.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/05/19/pregnant.student.ap/index.html

Congrats to this girl. She's going through rough times, but she wasn't going to let anyone stand in her way.

Notice, of course, that they had no problem at all with the father of the child continuing to attend school and graduating with his peers.

I really wish I could say I was surprised.... but, well...

Like being pregnant isn't hard enough?
Vittos Ordination
19-05-2005, 15:57
If there were legitimate safety concerns, then there's still no reason to leave her name off of the graduation program, as far as I can tell.

You are right about that.

I still have to wonder about this story, I didn't notice any mention of a law suit, and I am sure there would be many pro-bono agencies willing to represent her if this was the entire story.

EDIT: I guess Roman Catholic schools are pretty free to do what they want in this situation.
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 16:03
wow what a strong young woman she is! she is my hero for today.

i dont think a lawyer would take her case because its a private church run school and they can have any policy they want.

but really, all that punishing pregnant teens does is increase the likelihood they will have abortions rather than carry the baby to term.
Grave_n_idle
19-05-2005, 16:08
wow what a strong young woman she is! she is my hero for today.

i dont think a lawyer would take her case because its a private church run school and they can have any policy they want.

but really, all that punishing pregnant teens does is increase the likelihood they will have abortions rather than carry the baby to term.

Not to mention reinforcing the image that pregnancy is 'women's business', and confirming outdated gender roles.
Saint Curie
19-05-2005, 16:10
The article said the school had "safety concerns"? So, if a married teacher had been pregnant, she wouldn't have been allowed?

If it was a "moral" issue, why was the unwed father allowed to participate?

I don't believe in Jesus as a Messiah or anything, but they do. And I have to ask, is this how he would've handled it?
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:15
Is it possible that the safety concerns the story was refering to was some kind of school mob reaction to her being there. That may explain why the police were called to escort her away. Otherwise it just looks like the Catholics once again being overconcerned with their public image. I get fed up of that.
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 16:17
Is it possible that the safety concerns the story was refering to was some kind of school mob reaction to her being there. That may explain why the police were called to escort her away. Otherwise it just looks like the Catholics once again being overconcerned with their public image. I get fed up of that.
Yeah sure that’s it … and they pulled her name off the graduation program why?
Sdaeriji
19-05-2005, 16:18
Is it possible that the safety concerns the story was refering to was some kind of school mob reaction to her being there. That may explain why the police were called to escort her away. Otherwise it just looks like the Catholics once again being overconcerned with their public image. I get fed up of that.

Well, like I said, even if safety concerns were well founded (which is entirely possible), there's no reason I can come up with to leave her name off of the program.
Libertovania
19-05-2005, 16:20
I don't believe in Jesus as a Messiah or anything, but they do. And I have to ask, is this how he would've handled it?
Yes. Then he'd have reinstituted the death penalty, scolded homosexuals for their "unnatural" behaviour and invaded an oil rich middle eastern country.
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 16:27
Is it possible that the safety concerns the story was refering to was some kind of school mob reaction to her being there. That may explain why the police were called to escort her away. Otherwise it just looks like the Catholics once again being overconcerned with their public image. I get fed up of that.

And Protestant's don't?
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:28
Yeah sure that’s it … and they pulled her name off the graduation program why?

Im not sure what this "graduation program" is. I presume you mean the list of people graduating from the high school? Graduation is a much more American than British tradition. Seeing as your high school lasts two years longer than ours.
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:28
And Protestant's don't?

Not to the same extent. Catholocisim is far more instutuionalised. There isnt a "Protestant Church" in the same way as there is the Roman Catholic church. Its much more a single global institution and as a result reacts more like one in terms of public image.
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 16:29
Im not sure what this "graduation program" is. I presume you mean the list of people graduating from the high school? Graduation is a much more American than British tradition. Seeing as your high school lasts two years longer than ours.
Yeah essentialy the program usualy has a listing of everyone graduating (present or not) in alphabetical order
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 16:31
Not to the same extent. Catholocisim is far more instutuionalised.

Are there no Protestant faith school's in the States?
Mekonia
19-05-2005, 16:31
Fair dues to her! If she wasn't allowed participate then neither should the father have been. If that happened in my Secondary School we wouldn't have gone to graduation. Something similar happened in a friends' school, when a girl was suspended in the last week and was't allowed to go to graduation. When the principal came in all the girls got up and left.
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:32
Yeah essentialy the program usualy has a listing of everyone graduating (present or not) in alphabetical order

Then its likely its the Catholic instutional "face saving" reaction. They probably dont want it on record that they allowed a pregnant unmarried women to graduate from there high school. Which I agree with you is very wrong. They should offer support instead of condemnation. WWJD.
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:32
Are there no Protestant faith school's in the States?

I dont know. I'm British.
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 16:34
Then its likely its the Catholic instutional "face saving" reaction. They probably dont want it on record that they allowed a pregnant unmarried women to graduate from there high school. Which I agree with you is very wrong. They should offer support instead of condemnation. WWJD.

But isn't that the legal policy of all State school's, not to allow pregnant pupils to graduate due to whatever reason there is.....not just Catholic one's?
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:37
But isn't that the legal policy of all State school's, not to allow pregnant pupils to graduate due to whatever reason there is.....not just Catholic one's?

I sincerely doubt it. I dont know enough about the workings of the American legal system. There is no such staute in the UK.
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 16:39
I sincerely doubt it. I dont know enough about the workings of the American legal system. There is no such staute in the UK.

I big shout out for an American view on this....
Instant Gratification
19-05-2005, 16:44
That girl shouldnt have been so irresponsible in the first place. if thats the policy of her school that immoral young sluts dont get to walk across the stage i support it. Way to stand up for values and morals St. Judes Catholic School
Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 16:46
Is it possible that the safety concerns the story was refering to was some kind of school mob reaction to her being there. That may explain why the police were called to escort her away. Otherwise it just looks like the Catholics once again being overconcerned with their public image. I get fed up of that.

Most like the "safety concerns" were the same that public schools used in the 60's and 70's to kick girls out. "Other people might think they want to get pregnant!"

Now, I saw pregnant girls at my high school, carrying around pillows because of their hemoroids and attempting to squeeze into a desk not built for a pregnant woman. I can assure you that it did not make anyone I know think "Hey, I'd like to be pregnant."
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:46
That girl shouldnt have been so irresponsible in the first place. if thats the policy of her school that immoral young sluts dont get to walk across the stage i support it. Way to stand up for values and morals St. Judes Catholic School

While to an extent I agree with you, if thats the stand the school had taken then they should have stoped the father participating too.
Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 16:47
But isn't that the legal policy of all State school's, not to allow pregnant pupils to graduate due to whatever reason there is.....not just Catholic one's?

No, it is not. In fact, this sort of thing is banned in public schools.
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 16:47
Then its likely its the Catholic instutional "face saving" reaction. They probably dont want it on record that they allowed a pregnant unmarried women to graduate from there high school. Which I agree with you is very wrong. They should offer support instead of condemnation. WWJD.
We agree here the right think to do was help her so she could get her degree and contribute to her and her baby’s welfare
Frangland
19-05-2005, 16:47
Yes. Then he'd have reinstituted the death penalty, scolded homosexuals for their "unnatural" behaviour and invaded an oil rich middle eastern country.

1)It's unclear how Jesus would feel about the death penalty.

2)Jesus would be against the act of homosexuality but not against homosexuals per se.

3)Jesus would have supported the ousting of a tyrant and the resulting freedom of the population.
Grave_n_idle
19-05-2005, 16:50
1)It's unclear how Jesus would feel about the death penalty.

2)Jesus would be against the act of homosexuality but not against homosexuals per se.

3)Jesus would have supported the ousting of a tyrant and the resulting freedom of the population.

Unless you are Jesus (which I doubt) these are your opinions, and have exactly that much value...
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 16:51
Unless you are Jesus (which I doubt) these are your opinions, and have exactly that much value...
DORE'S ARGUMENT
(1) I forgot to take my meds.
(2) Therefore, I AM CHRIST!!
(3) Therefore, God exists.
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:52
We agree here the right think to do was help her so she could get her degree and contribute to her and her baby’s welfare

Yes, very much so. I think though if the school had wanted to stop her participating in the ceremony on moral grounds then they should treet the father the same way. I think we agree there.
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 16:53
No, it is not. In fact, this sort of thing is banned in public schools.

Clarification: American State schools?

(British one's, would just get sued, unless they had a written agreement or some form of contract I suppose)
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:53
1)It's unclear how Jesus would feel about the death penalty.

He spoke out against they old "eye for eye" policy of the OT
Grave_n_idle
19-05-2005, 16:54
That girl shouldnt have been so irresponsible in the first place. if thats the policy of her school that immoral young sluts dont get to walk across the stage i support it. Way to stand up for values and morals St. Judes Catholic School

And yet, you have no qualms about the boy graduating... who also, presumably, must have been involved in the conception, right?

Also - I hardly think ONE incident of intercourse (which is the number of times she must have had sex, minimum (unless she is a miracle mother)... but potentially the maximum also... we don't KNOW she had sex more than that) is enough to warrant 'slut' status..

For all you know, the 'boyfriend' might have forced her into it.

See, this is just the kind of phallo-theistic hypocrisy I hate in organised religions...
Maniacal Me
19-05-2005, 16:54
While to an extent I agree with you, if thats the stand the school had taken then they should have stoped the father participating too.
What are you saying?!?
Clearly she used her feminine wiles to seduce some poor helpless young good Catholic boy, then stunned him with the sight of her body and took callous and evil misuse of his body while he was catatonic so as to get herself pregnant.
Obviously segregation is the only reasonable response to a being of such wickedness as this.
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 16:54
Yes, very much so. I think though if the school had wanted to stop her participating in the ceremony on moral grounds then they should treet the father the same way. I think we agree there.
Yes as much as I think it is a jackass thing to do, as a private institution they have a right with the ceremony but the father was just as guilty of premarital sex as she was
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:56
(British one's, would just get sued, unless they had a written agreement or some form of contract I suppose)

British state schools wouldnt be sued in that they have no legal requirement to allow someone to participate in a ceremony. Nor do they have any legal requirement to publish everyones name on a pass register. They do however have the legal requirement to give out qualifications to those that acchieve them so if she did pass and the school refused to give the certificates at any time THEN the school would be sued.
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:57
Yes as much as I think it is a jackass thing to do, as a private institution they have a right with the ceremony but the father was just as guilty of premarital sex as she was

Indeed. The only circumstance where this would not apply is if it can somehow be proven that she raped him, but thats very diffucult to prove.
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 16:59
What are you saying?!?
Clearly she used her feminine wiles to seduce some poor helpless young good Catholic boy, then stunned him with the sight of her body and took callous and evil misuse of his body while he was catatonic so as to get herself pregnant.
Obviously segregation is the only reasonable response to a being of such wickedness as this.

Are you being serious? Its hard to tell. The internet provides a vacum of vocal inflictions.

Since we cant rearly prove who seduced who the only reasonable action to take would be to ban them both.
Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 17:00
Clarification: American State schools?

(British one's, would just get sued, unless they had a written agreement or some form of contract I suppose)

I don't really know anything about British schools. I thought your question was about those in the US.
Grave_n_idle
19-05-2005, 17:01
Are you being serious? Its hard to tell. The internet provides a vacum of vocal inflictions.

Since we cant rearly prove who seduced who the only reasonable action to take would be to ban them both.

Err.. call me crazy, but... well, NOT banning EITHER wouldn't be TOO unreasonable...
Kanabia
19-05-2005, 17:01
EDIT: I guess Roman Catholic schools are pretty free to do what they want in this situation.

I went to a Catholic school. One girl got pregnant, and the couple were pressured to leave. They went to the local public school for their final year instead. Shame there was no uproar, there should have been IMO.
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 17:01
British state schools wouldnt be sued in that they have no legal requirement to allow someone to participate in a ceremony. Nor do they have any legal requirement to publish everyones name on a pass register. They do however have the legal requirement to give out qualifications to those that acchieve them so if she did pass and the school refused to give the certificates at any time THEN the school would be sued.

Yeah, but American graduation ceremony is merely the symbolic act of graduation, i.e. you achieved your grades. They don't have to publish anyone's name, but that means little compared to the actual qualifications.

If a girl was excluded from a UK state school, even a Catholic private one, due to her pregancy it is unlawful, (in State, harder in Catholic, but doable under EU Human Rights legalisation), and thus the school would be taken to court.
Maniacal Me
19-05-2005, 17:01
Are you being serious?
No.
Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 17:01
Since we cant rearly prove who seduced who the only reasonable action to take would be to ban them both.

I don't think banning either is reasonable. To err is to be human. Unless they are going to seek out every single student in their school who has ever done something they consider sinful and ban them (in other words, every single one), they have no case.
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 17:02
I don't really know anything about British schools. I thought your question was about those in the US.

It is. It's not State school policy to not allow pregnant girls to complete their education?

How about Non-Catholic faith schools?
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 17:03
Indeed. The only circumstance where this would not apply is if it can somehow be proven that she raped him, but thats very diffucult to prove.
Yeah but is there technically any leeway in the faith for rape? (in Christianity) I did not think it said freely choose … the bible just refers to the act of sex
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 17:04
snip.
:) while I posted the arguement in your sig I got it from http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm (have you seen that before?) :D
Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 17:08
It is. It's not State school policy to not allow pregnant girls to complete their education?

No, it isn't. It hasn't been for over 30 years. In fact, a girl who just gets pressured to leave school can sue a public school.

How about Non-Catholic faith schools?

Faith-based schools in the US are private, and thus are not state-run. Each school will have its own rules. I don't know how the laws on this might apply to them.
Texpunditistan
19-05-2005, 17:08
the "blame" of having an unplanned pregnancy falls squarely on the female.
Well...to play Devil's Advocate...if they can take all the power of the final decision of over an abortion, why shouldn't they take all the responsibility of an unplanned pregnancy?
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 17:10
I don't think banning either is reasonable. To err is to be human. Unless they are going to seek out every single student in their school who has ever done something they consider sinful and ban them (in other words, every single one), they have no case.

While to an extent I can see your point, in a school enviroment there are certian things such as theft, criminal damage, vilonce etc which will get you banned from certian events. Now obviously you dont need to be religious to tell me that these things are bad of themselves but they are particually bad anyway and are what, in education speek are known as "serious incidents". In a religious school, those idea's may be branched out to include pre-marital sex and pregnancy. Obvously it would be stupid school policy to enforce every smallest wrong, but something like this could not be said to be a small wrong (in terms of its level of seriousness).
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 17:10
[Faith-based schools in the US are private, and thus are not state-run. Each school will have its own rules. I don't know how the laws on this might apply to them.[/QUOTE]

Cheers. But a follow on. Are there Protestant faith schools in the State's? I don't know of any in the UK, (I'm sure there might be)
Texpunditistan
19-05-2005, 17:11
Are there Protestant faith schools in the State's? I don't know of any in the UK, (I'm sure there might be)
Yep. I can name probably 10 in this city alone.
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 17:13
Yep. I can name probably 10 in this city alone.

Thanks for the info. OK. Just going back to what Neo-Cannan said. Would Protestant faith school's have the same reaction to a pregnant girl?
Grave_n_idle
19-05-2005, 17:19
:) while I posted the arguement in your sig I got it from http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm (have you seen that before?) :D

Nope, it's a new one on me. :)

Am I going to get lynched by godless geeks now, do you think?
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 17:26
Nope, it's a new one on me. :)

Am I going to get lynched by godless geeks now, do you think?
:) maybe … this is my favorite

• ARGUMENT FROM CREATION
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable
(3) Therefore, God exists.
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 17:27
That girl shouldnt have been so irresponsible in the first place. if thats the policy of her school that immoral young sluts dont get to walk across the stage i support it. Way to stand up for values and morals St. Judes Catholic School
you mean like that slut MARY, pregnant, out in public, father no where to be seen?
Swimmingpool
19-05-2005, 17:28
I can understand, but don't like, this school's decision.

But what really annoys me is their inconsistency. If this girl was not allowed to graduate, then the father should not have been allowed either.
Texpunditistan
19-05-2005, 17:31
I can understand, but don't like, this school's decision.

But what really annoys me is their inconsistency. If this girl was not allowed to graduate, then the father should not have been allowed either.
I don't like the double standard, either.

But, again: if women can take all the responsiblity of an abortion (keeping the father totally out of the decision), why shouldn't a woman take all the responsibility of an "unintended pregnancy"?

Just a question. :)
Swimmingpool
19-05-2005, 17:31
That girl shouldnt have been so irresponsible in the first place. if thats the policy of her school that immoral young sluts dont get to walk across the stage i support it. Way to stand up for values and morals St. Judes Catholic School
Commando, I believe you are ban on sight.

Reported.
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 17:34
Commando, I believe you are ban on sight.

Reported.

Erm, what for? He or she has expressed an opinion, you may disagree with it but I cant see a forum rule he or she has broken.
Grave_n_idle
19-05-2005, 17:34
:) maybe … this is my favorite

• ARGUMENT FROM CREATION
(1) If evolution is false, then creationism is true, and therefore God exists.
(2) Evolution can't be true, since I lack the mental capacity to understand it; moreover, to accept its truth would cause me to be uncomfortable
(3) Therefore, God exists.

For some reason, I feel drawn to:
PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM SELECTIVE MEMORY

(1) [Christian asks "stumper" question]
(2) [Atheist answers question]
(3) [A lapse of time]
(4) [Christian repeats question]
(5) [Atheist repeats answer]
(6) [A lapse of time]
(7) [Christian repeats question]
(8) [Atheist repeats answer]
(9) [A lapse of time]
(10) Atheist, you never answered my question.
(11) Therefore, God exists.

But, I can't imagine why....
Neo Cannen
19-05-2005, 17:35
For some reason, I feel drawn to:
PEACOCK ARGUMENT FROM SELECTIVE MEMORY

(1) [Christian asks "stumper" question]
(2) [Atheist answers question]
(3) [A lapse of time]
(4) [Christian repeats question]
(5) [Atheist repeats answer]
(6) [A lapse of time]
(7) [Christian repeats question]
(8) [Atheist repeats answer]
(9) [A lapse of time]
(10) Atheist, you never answered my question.
(11) Therefore, God exists.

But, I can't imagine why....

To be fair, thats happened to me hundureds of time but with the roles reversed and the end result being "Therefore God does not exist"
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 17:36
[Faith-based schools in the US are private, and thus are not state-run. Each school will have its own rules. I don't know how the laws on this might apply to them.

Cheers. But a follow on. Are there Protestant faith schools in the State's? I don't know of any in the UK, (I'm sure there might be)

Yes, there are Protestant schools in the UK and though they are not as prolific as they are here in the States.
UpwardThrust
19-05-2005, 17:36
To be fair, thats happened to me hundureds of time but with the roles reversed.
Yeah most of these happen to a lot of people (that’s why it is supposed to be funny) though it is fun to post them when an obvious match is found :)
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 17:38
Cheers. But a follow on. Are there Protestant faith schools in the State's? I don't know of any in the UK, (I'm sure there might be)

Yes, there are Protestant schools in the UK and though they are not as prolific as they are here in the States.[/QUOTE]

But would their reaction be the same as a Catholic one?
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 17:38
yes it is the schools place to decide who gets to go to graduation. it was probably spelled out in the contract that pregnant girls can finish but not attend graduation.

what bugs ME is what i said before, all punishing pregnant girls does is increase the likelihood of abortion. since it is the church's policy to fight against abortion shouldnt they make the policies that support a girl going through with an unplanned pregnancy?
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 17:42
Yes, there are Protestant schools in the UK and though they are not as prolific as they are here in the States.

But would their reaction be the same as a Catholic one?[/QUOTE]

It depends on the situation, the given school admin, the given denomination and a host of other factors. The Adventist boarding academy (highschool) I attended kick 3 boys out for getting caught intoxicated on campus a week and a half before graduation and didn't allow them to march. Of course, this was known school policy that the students knowingly defied, so, IMO, the action was warranted.
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 17:42
Yes, there are Protestant schools in the UK and though they are not as prolific as they are here in the States.

But would their reaction be the same as a Catholic one?[/QUOTE]
not necessarily
protestant church schools tend to be locally run so it depends on the feelings of the elders and parents of that particular church. some would kick her out immediately, some would do as this school did, some would be fine with her crossing the stage, picking up her diploma, then going to the hospital to deliver.
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 17:44
yes it is the schools place to decide who gets to go to graduation. it was probably spelled out in the contract that pregnant girls can finish but not attend graduation.

what bugs ME is what i said before, all punishing pregnant girls does is increase the likelihood of abortion. since it is the church's policy to fight against abortion shouldnt they make the policies that support a girl going through with an unplanned pregnancy?

IMO, yes. However, it is a very difficult situation, particularly if the girl is unrepentant about the situation. Because the church has a responsibility to uphold every part of its moral code at the same time, it can be a very complex issue.
Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 17:46
Well...to play Devil's Advocate...if they can take all the power of the final decision of over an abortion, why shouldn't they take all the responsibility of an unplanned pregnancy?

The pregnancy is a result of the actions of two.

However, it only physically affects one. As such, the rigths associated with abortion must soley reside with the mother (who is the one actually physically affected - she is the one who is pregnant).

The punishment is not for being pregnant or for deciding against an abortion. This punishment is supposedly for having sex. Both are equally culpable in that.
Tiocfaidh ar la
19-05-2005, 17:47
But would their reaction be the same as a Catholic one?
not necessarily
protestant church schools tend to be locally run so it depends on the feelings of the elders and parents of that particular church. some would kick her out immediately, some would do as this school did, some would be fine with her crossing the stage, picking up her diploma, then going to the hospital to deliver.[/QUOTE]

But isn't the same as Catholic school's then? I.e. very situational. I know a Catholic school in my local area and it was run locally and even allowed Non-Catholics in.

My query is over the assumption by Neo Cannen that just because the school is Catholic makes it automatic that the girl will be chucked. And it keeps trying to save face....surely most religions do that?

Unless the assumption here is that all Catholic schools are run from the Vatican....
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 17:49
The pregnancy is a result of the actions of two.

However, it only physically affects one. As such, the rigths associated with abortion must soley reside with the mother (who is the one actually physically affected - she is the one who is pregnant).


Actually, the pregnancy physically effects two. The mother and the child, but I don't see you advocating for the child's rights. ;)
Sableonia
19-05-2005, 17:50
Thanks for the info. OK. Just going back to what Neo-Cannan said. Would Protestant faith school's have the same reaction to a pregnant girl?
Good question. I would imagine that they have had to deal with this kind of thing before and there must be something about it in school policy and of course the student handbook. Being protestant and surely following the Bible, I am sure that sex before marriage is not allowed and will be dealt with accordingly. As would breaking any rules would be. Not just teen pregnancy.


Faith-based schools in the US are private, and thus are not state-run. Each school will have its own rules. I don't know how the laws on this might apply to them.
I agree with this. Her school would have had a handbook or rulebook. All students should know school policy. If it is written about being pregant as a student and if there are any consequences... then then school must follow their own rules.

With that being said I do agree that if she were to be "punished", so should the father have. :mad:
Even if the school did pretend that the reasoning was her safety, I am sure it was not the real case.
I am sure they used it as an excuse to hide behind the real reason.
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 17:51
But isn't the same as Catholic school's then? I.e. very situational. I know a Catholic school in my local area and it was run locally and even allowed Non-Catholics in.

My query is over the assumption by Neo Cannen that just because the school is Catholic makes it automatic that the girl will be chucked. And it keeps trying to save face....surely most religions do that?

Unless the assumption here is that all Catholic schools are run from the Vatican....

no i think youre right. it does depend on the attitude of the local principal, the local school board, even the social position of the girl. they are all human after all.
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 17:53
But isn't the same as Catholic school's then? I.e. very situational. I know a Catholic school in my local area and it was run locally and even allowed Non-Catholics in.

My query is over the assumption by Neo Cannen that just because the school is Catholic makes it automatic that the girl will be chucked. And it keeps trying to save face....surely most religions do that?

Unless the assumption here is that all Catholic schools are run from the Vatican....

In answer to your first question, Yes.

In answer to your second question, it varies from denomination to denomination and from specific congregation to specific congregation. There are some denominations more concerned about appearances than others and there is variation within denominations....
Ashmoria
19-05-2005, 18:00
Actually, the pregnancy physically effects two. The mother and the child, but I don't see you advocating for the child's rights. ;)
you mean you think that the fetus should have some say over whether or not the woman carrying it walks across the stage to pick up her diploma?
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 18:09
you mean you think that the fetus should have some say over whether or not the woman carrying it walks across the stage to pick up her diploma?

:D Very funny LOL... I'm sure you realize that was a somewhat seperate issue...
Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 18:34
Actually, the pregnancy physically effects two. The mother and the child, but I don't see you advocating for the child's rights. ;)

Whether or not an embryo is to be considered a child and treated as such is a debated issue. In the end, it is a moral decision to be made by the mother involved. As we cannot objectively say it is a child, it has no legal rights whatsoever.
Dempublicents1
19-05-2005, 18:36
With that being said I do agree that if she were to be "punished", so should the father have. :mad:
Even if the school did pretend that the reasoning was her safety, I am sure it was not the real case.
I am sure they used it as an excuse to hide behind the real reason.

I don't think they were claiming it was for her safety, but for the safety of the others in the school. It has been a long-held (and always idiotic) idea of many schools that one pregnancy will automatically induce an epidemic of pregnancies in a school.
Personal responsibilit
19-05-2005, 18:37
Whether or not an embryo is to be considered a child and treated as such is a debated issue. In the end, it is a moral decision to be made by the mother involved. As we cannot objectively say it is a child, it has no legal rights whatsoever.

I disagree with your second and third sentences, but lets just drop it at that. We've been through this issue on more than one occasion.
Grave_n_idle
19-05-2005, 18:46
I don't think they were claiming it was for her safety, but for the safety of the others in the school. It has been a long-held (and always idiotic) idea of many schools that one pregnancy will automatically induce an epidemic of pregnancies in a school.

Maybe our science is flawed, and pregnancy is actually airborne?
Kryozerkia
19-05-2005, 19:36
Hmn...I'd say I'm surprised, but it's Alabama and it's right squat in the middle of the bible belt where ignorance is cheaper than tub scotch and more rampant than rabies ridden raccoons.

I do have sympathy for the girl. Despite getting knocked up, at least she IS finishing school, and that is worth enough to allow her to walk. I fail to see what the saftey concerns are.