NationStates Jolt Archive

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.

what kind of cell?

its a hindu notion (as interpreted by alan watts) that we are made from the mind of god.

what kind of cell?

A huge one.
Its like a spiral kind of thing, where everything keeps getting replicated smaller or bigger, depending on which way you go.

So what you are saying is it is justified that god is omnipresent because the ntire universe is just a large collection of the cells of god, in essence, we are the body of god.

Is that it?


Oh, also MSB - a friendly player to player warning before the mods show up. Stop flaming (ex: your response to Children of Valkyrja) you'll stay out of trouble if you keep the discussion civil or the sarcasm under control.

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.
Theological ideas need to be expressed in more than three pseudo-sentences to persuade me to vote anything but the third option.

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.

Does this make me god's colon cancer?

Does this make me god's colon cancer?
Depends.

Do you live in New Jersey?

[QUOTE=BLARGistania]So what you are saying is it is justified that god is omnipresent because the ntire universe is just a large collection of the cells of god, in essence, we are the body of god.
Is that it?
Yes, thats it.


Oh, also MSB - a friendly player to player warning before the mods show up. Stop flaming (ex: your response to Children of Valkyrja) you'll stay out of trouble if you keep the discussion civil or the sarcasm under control.

Sure Ill go delete it, thanks.

Theological ideas need to be expressed in more than three pseudo-sentences to persuade me to vote anything but the third option.

Pseudo? Whats fake about it?
Im doing the best I can m8, Im giving you intellectuals the ball, so try and run with it.

Does this make me god's colon cancer?

Possibly.

Pseudo? Whats fake about it?
Im doing the best I can m8, Im giving you intellectuals the ball, so try and run with it.
Pseudo because a few of them didn't have punctuation.

I'm just saying I find it difficult to endorse an idea which hasn't been fleshed out to a large enough extent.

I'm also not sure this is logical if attempting to be compatible with the monotheistic tradition, which states that God is non-corporeal. Therefore, to be in God would be a paradox - how can you be in something that doesn't have a body?

Also, can you really talk through a burning bush in your foot? Because if you can, that'd be awesome.

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.
Or maybe his universe is made up of an interdimensionally linked combination of all of our cells.

Did I just blow your mind?

I tossed around a idea somewhat like this once upon a time, I ended up scrapping it.

Or maybe his universe is made up of an interdimensionally linked combination of all of our cells.

Did I just blow your mind?
That also doesn't really make sense, because then God would only inhabit the space between cells, which means God could never effect people, just things going on around them.

This is silly. You can't control individual molecules, you can just mass-move them around by flailing wildly.
God would have no control, if our universe were just a little molecule in his body - and that goes against the very definition of "god", no matter where you're from.

saying that we're a cell in god's body and therefore god is omnipresent is too narrow a view of it, we're trying to put the idea of existance into human context, if we are "inside god" it would make absolutly no difference than us being outside of god, if got was omnipotent or omnipresent our location is totally irrelevant when regarding god's manifestation.

on the other hand if we did define the confines of our universe as inside god's body, our location inside of god renders his internal functions the defining laws of our universe and raises the secondary notion that we partially comprise god. if we are part of god's body we are not a distinct entity thus we (humanity, earth etc) are divine.

That also doesn't really make sense, because then God would only inhabit the space between cells, which means God could never effect people, just things going on around them.
And who says this is wrong?

Rather, don't answer that, it would make this thread problematic wouldn't it....

And who says this is wrong?

Rather, don't answer that, it would make this thread problematic wouldn't it....
Yeah, probably, but I'm going to do it anyway.

In brief, I assume the poster was coming from a traditional monotheistic background. In that background, God directly effects humans, mainly by smiting them. If God could only effect the things around people, smiting could only occur in a limited number of ways which the Bible does not limit itself to. Therefore, God must be able to effect people directly to properly smite them.

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.

That was my skull!! I'm so wasted!

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.
Mutated Sea Bass, from our previous forum interaction, I never thought I'd type this, but I AGREE with you. My concept of god is one that is omnipresent because it permeates every cell and every atom of our being. My concept of god is more like a gas than an organism with cells, though as far as your concept of Us in Him goes, I think you're onto something. We humans have to realise that whatever god is, it's far bigger than what our tiny little human brains can comprehend. God isn't just some fat old bloke with a beard and a smitin' stick. Perhaps many parallel dimensions are secreted in the many other "cells" of god. This is silly. You can't control individual molecules, you can just mass-move them around by flailing wildly. God would have no control, if our universe were just a little molecule in his body - and that goes against the very definition of "god", no matter where you're from.
It doesn't go against my definition of god. I find the concept of a grand Creator-god very limitting. I think it's quite reasonable to assume that god as a permeating spirit is far less concerned with the trivial affairs of people than we would like to think. If god is really just the universal consiousness of all living things (as I'm apt to believe), then it's really the will of all living things which make the acts of god. Maybe, along this vein, it is the universal consiousness that manifests itself in changing individual molecules, though our prayer and willing-it-so. Perhaps, however, these allegedly divine actions are revealed to us so infrequently that we probably don't notice them until they are blatantly obvious.

That also doesn't really make sense, because then God would only inhabit the space between cells, which means God could never effect people, just things going on around them.

Well, he doesn't really affect people themselves. Not so much as in possession or anything like that. It would also go against the idea of freewill if god could control us. Then there would be no point to the universe, because by definition god would know everything and control everything. However god can affect us indirectly, as in burning bush, 10 commandments, talking to people. I must admit you have an idea here that is worth thinking about.

Yeah, probably, but I'm going to do it anyway.

In brief, I assume the poster was coming from a traditional monotheistic background. In that background, God directly effects humans, mainly by smiting them. If God could only effect the things around people, smiting could only occur in a limited number of ways which the Bible does not limit itself to. Therefore, God must be able to effect people directly to properly smite them.
Ok, I see, I wasn't reading too much into the omnipotence thing when I first read through the thread, so I was sort of going off in a different direction. Teaches me not to remember titles.

Or maybe his universe is made up of an interdimensionally linked combination of all of our cells.
Did I just blow your mind?

No, thats abit farfetched.

Mutated Sea Bass, from our previous forum interaction, I never thought I'd type this, but I AGREE with you.

You see thats the problem I have with some posters on here, that is they venemntly disagree with me on some subjects, and then say to themselves, Ill never agree with this guy on anything, which is an immature stance to take, so thanks for being mature about it.

No, thats abit farfetched.

Well played. :)

No, thats abit farfetched.
Damn...back to the drawing board.

That was my skull!! I'm so wasted!

Only dopes smoke dope, Gartref.
Seriously, its a fools drug.
Look what its done to you here for instance.
Take my advice and give it up, give all drugs up.

EDIT- Im not flaming, drugs fuck you up.

Well played. :)
Nods and bows.

I must say, I am impressed! The First non-flaming thread about Christianity! Well done.

Only dopes smoke dope, Gartref.
Seriously, its a fools drug.
Look what its done to you here for instance.
Take my advice and give it up, give all drugs up.

So what Jefferson was saying was "Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." Yeah?

I must say, I am impressed! The First non-flaming thread about Christianity! Well done.

Thanks.
So far, at least anyway. I just wish some Christians would get on to the subject, if they have, then they havent id yet.

So what Jefferson was saying was "Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too." Yeah?

wtf?
Did you just pull another billy?

Actually, on a more realistic level, this would seem to be entirely possible. My notion has been that if a god exists and we exist within him then all portions of the universe would probably all function in accord to produce a sort of reasoning quality, and in this way we would all function as cells and neurons of sorts in God's mind. Although this isn't exactly the same idea, it goes along well with the concept. As for the omnipotency, perhaps we're a concious portion of God's mind which he can control and debate with?

The christian concept of god (Gnostic and origional version) has God being an infinite omniprecent, omnipotent being, not an external Zues type figure (in regards to another post). By definition God is therefore infininte and MUST include all plants, animal, mineral, and random miscalaniousness that is present in our universe, both past and present. Therefore God is allknowing and allpowerful since god has an all encompassing existence. Giordano Bruno probably said it better than I ever could, and Lebniz is also a good place to go if you want something to ponder along these lines.

But I dont like affiliating myself with christianity, too many dogmatic conflicting (and plain wrong) concepts that way too many people accept. But I do believe that any being called God would have had to have been responsible for the initial force allwing the intial BANG to happen (implying an existence of God outside of the current universe). Also, through my own observations of how things such as gravity or DNA works (DNA is really, really odd, 5 years study and I still only know the basics, with what I know being proven wrong bit by bit each year) I have toruble believeing in a non divine force binding everything together and providing order to the Universe. Since god is existent as everything both material and corperal; and also existing in some way beyond our universe I suppose our universe could be thought of as a 'cell' of gods 'body', although these terms really lose thier origionaly meaning when talking about God. It's 1:30am and I dont really feel like flushing out this argument too much more, but that is the gist of what I think of it.

I may forget I posted here so if someone wants to talk about what I said any go ahead and post here, than telegraph my country to 'remind' me of it. Thanks.

(ps: please excuse my grammer and spelling, because I really dont care enough about it to check it)

Actually, on a more realistic level, this would seem to be entirely possible. My notion has been that if a god exists and we exist within him then all portions of the universe would probably all function in accord to produce a sort of reasoning quality, and in this way we would all function as cells and neurons of sorts in God's mind. Although this isn't exactly the same idea, it goes along well with the concept. As for the omnipotency, perhaps we're a concious portion of God's mind which he can control and debate with?

Exactly.

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.

Please keep your religion to yourself. You don't see me going Jedi or Sith on your butt do you? K'thanks.

Please keep your religion to yourself. You don't see me going Jedi or Sith on your butt do you? K'thanks.

Im free to express religous opinions on here, if you dont like it, then the title should have been enough warning for you, not to look.
You can go Jedi/Sith all you like on me, I love Starwars.
Oh I almost forgot, Jesus loves you. :)

The christian concept of god (Gnostic and origional version) has God being an infinite omniprecent, omnipotent being, not an external Zues type figure (in regards to another post). By definition God is therefore infininte and MUST include all plants, animal, mineral, and random miscalaniousness that is present in our universe, both past and present. Therefore God is allknowing and allpowerful since god has an all encompassing existence.

Thou art God...all that groks.

;)

Im free to express religous opinions on here, if you dont like it, then the title should have been enough warning for you, not to look.
You can go Jedi/Sith all you like on me, I love Starwars.
Oh I almost forgot, Jesus loves you. :)

Jesus doesn't know me. He's dead. I'm a deist (God) and mixed with somewhat of a Jedi/Sith believer in the whole "the force is everywhere... its an energy field that is in everything... yadda yadda.." So basicly: God=Teh Force for me.

WHICH MEANS JACK SQUAT ABOUT THE NOTION OF JESUS BEING A MESSIAH. Hell, its about as much bull as Mohammad loving me. People can claim it, but its probably unfounded bull in the end.

Anyway, if your wondering why people dislike christians. BAM that is why. Its the crap you guys try to shove down people's throats and the cohersion you do with young people.

I'd bug the atheist. But I've never seen one in person.

what kind of cell?

I can come up with all manner of naughty mental images from this. Make up your own. :p

Actually, do you think there might be a universe up my left nostril? And in that universe, a tiny tiny galaxy with one even teensier planet inhabited by strange life forms who worship me?

If so, does that make me all-powerful?

I can come up with all manner of naughty mental images from this. Make up your own. :p

Actually, do you think there might be a universe up my left nostril? And in that universe, a tiny tiny galaxy with one even teensier planet inhabited by strange life forms who worship me?

If so, does that make me all-powerful?

No... It just makes you the biggest booger in the universe.

No... It just makes you the biggest booger in the universe.

That's exactly what I thought.

I can come up with all manner of naughty mental images from this. Make up your own. :p

Actually, do you think there might be a universe up my left nostril? And in that universe, a tiny tiny galaxy with one even teensier planet inhabited by strange life forms who worship me?

If so, does that make me all-powerful?

No, I was waiting for this, no its just snot m8, it doesnt worship you, and when its removed from your nostril it doesnt die and go to some heaven in your body, OK?

Jesus doesn't know me. He's dead. I'm a deist (God) and mixed with somewhat of a Jedi/Sith believer in the whole "the force is everywhere... its an energy field that is in everything... yadda yadda.." So basicly: God=Teh Force for me.
WHICH MEANS JACK SQUAT ABOUT THE NOTION OF JESUS BEING A MESSIAH. Hell, its about as much bull as Mohammad loving me. People can claim it, but its probably unfounded bull in the end.
Anyway, if your wondering why people dislike christians. BAM that is why. Its the crap you guys try to shove down people's throats and the cohersion you do with young people.
I'd bug the atheist. But I've never seen one in person.

Hes not dead, he rose for your sins on the third day, deny it all you want, hes the only religous figure whos done this.
I dont try and shove crap down young peoples throat either, if they want to talk about Jesus. Im all for it, if not then thats cool too.

Hes not dead, he rose for your sins on the third day, deny it all you want, hes the only religous figure whos done this.
I dont try and shove crap down young peoples throat either, if they want to talk about Jesus. Im all for it, if not then thats cool too.

LOL. Crazy talk. Man, though I believe in god, this "dude died for all our sins and rose on the third day" never ceases to make me wonder if this brainwashing has gone out of control.

But when it comes to youngsters, if they are not yours or not part of your congregation, DON'T talk about it. Let them reason for themselves. They will become individuals that need to think for themselves and reason. We have WAY to many crazies nowadays going and idioticly voting for dubbya because of all this brainwashing and cohersion.

Sea Bass, if your little theory is true, then you ought to consider what that means.
If our universe is but one cell in the body of God, then that makes us, as Bill Hicks once said, "Viruses With Shoes."

Just as you are barely aware of, and have no emotional feeling for microscopic organism that live on you, so too must "God."

Such a God doesnt "Love you"...such a being wouldnt care in the slightest who worshipped him, or who believes his "son" "died for our sins,and rose on the third day".

Such a being might not even be bothered to give you a second thought.
Think about how little you care about the average insect, like an ant, that you can actually see.

Now think about the tiny parasites that live in your epidermis, eating dead skin cells.

Thats what such a God would think of you.

Hmmm..on the other hand...maybe were both right.

LOL. Crazy talk. Man, though I believe in god, this "dude died for all our sins and rose on the third day" never ceases to make me wonder if this brainwashing has gone out of control.
But when it comes to youngsters, if they are not yours or not part of your congregation, DON'T talk about it. Let them reason for themselves. They will become individuals that need to think for themselves and reason. We have WAY to many crazies nowadays going and idioticly voting for dubbya because of all this brainwashing and cohersion.

Well theres all kinds of brainwashing, I guess its which one you prefer to believe in, if thats the way you see it, for instance you could be brainwashed by the greens or the socialists to believe that America is the reason all the wars are starting.
Kids do reason for themselves, and if they come along to a Christian church and like what they hear and see, then there hardly being brainwashed.

Sea Bass, if your little theory is true, then you ought to consider what that means.
If our universe is but one cell in the body of God, then that makes us, as Bill Hicks once said, "Viruses With Shoes."
Just as you are barely aware of, and have no emotional feeling for microscopic organism that live on you, so too must "God."
Such a God doesnt "Love you"...such a being wouldnt care in the slightest who worshipped him, or who believes his "son" "died for our sins,and rose on the third day".
Such a being might not even be bothered to give you a second thought.
Think about how little you care about the average insect, like an ant, that you can actually see.
Now think about the tiny parasites that live in your epidermis, eating dead skin cells.
Thats what such a God would think of you.
Hmmm..on the other hand...maybe were both right.

No, I dont think were that insignificant, were human beings not cells, by the cellular example, I only meant as an example in Gods body, and by his body, it could be as he says, his kingdom, to be cast out of it, would be to enter hell, which is to be without God.

No, I dont think were that insignificant, were human beings not cells, by the cellular example, I only meant as an example in Gods body, and by his body, it could be as he says, his kingdom, to be cast out of it, would be to enter hell, which is to be without God.


You dont believe were that insignificant?

Why?

Becuase you cant accept it?

Its a proven fact that mankind will rationalize his way into answering questions like "Why are we here?", or "Where did we come from?"
and yet, no answers are forthcoming.

Maybe, its becuase there arent any to be had, and religion is a quick fix to aleiviate the angst that some people feel when they discover the truth.

Look around you...if Hell exists, then by your definition, Hell is all round you.
God is not here.

Serious question:

If God is everywhere, then - is he in the dump I just took? Would it be wrong to flush it? I need to know asap. Thanks.

Jesus doesn't know me. He's dead. I'm a deist (God) and mixed with somewhat of a Jedi/Sith believer in the whole "the force is everywhere... its an energy field that is in everything... yadda yadda.." So basicly: God=Teh Force for me.

WHICH MEANS JACK SQUAT ABOUT THE NOTION OF JESUS BEING A MESSIAH. Hell, its about as much bull as Mohammad loving me. People can claim it, but its probably unfounded bull in the end.

Anyway, if your wondering why people dislike christians. BAM that is why. Its the crap you guys try to shove down people's throats and the cohersion you do with young people.

I'd bug the atheist. But I've never seen one in person.

Not really man. Star wars 'force' was based heavily on the ideas of gnostic christianity. Anikan can be drawn as another Jesus, one who is both man and the devine. You are also the one to bring jesus into this, which tells me that you just have an ax to grind. Since you dont really develope your arguments but instead just flame on others, I'm willing to bet that you havent really thought through on your religious beliefs and only accept abstracted arguments against the organized religions and try to bluster your way through any conversation on religion with things like "organized religion is brainwashing" (a tried and true, but mostly unsubstantiated argument against christianity; although I will grant that in history there have been cases where isolated parts of christianity HAVE used meathods similaiar to brainwashing it does not mean thet the ENTIRETY of the religion is brainwashing) and other arguments of that ilk.

As far as "why people dislike christians. BAM that is why. Its the crap you guys try to shove down people's throats and the cohersion you do with young people" this is also isolated and fanatical members of the religion, not the entirety who force thier beliefs onto others(as you are a isolated and fanatical opponent of christianity (possibly because that is the popular viewpoint nowadays), in my opinion both sides of this one are idiotic). Eventually my children will ask about religion, what church is and the like. The only solution I can think of is that when that time comes to take them to a church to talk to a priest, to a synagouge to talk to a rabbi, to a temple to talk to a buddist monk and let each one explain thier belief structure and why they believe as they do, because in reality kid, the only way to make a sound judgement is AFTER listening to the other sides argument and giving it a fair assesment (which again, I doubt you do, with "teh force" being your claim to spirituality..oh yeah, and Hegel developes that concept (a 'forcelike one' in a manner which reconciles it with christianity, I forget which book it was but it should be apparent: 'theory on Religion' or something. You can probably nab it from your local library. ;)

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.
God is like VISA - he's everywhere you are.

I love the third poll option, I think I'm going to have to steal it and use it at every opportunity.

As for the topic if God existed he'd probably be something like that.

That poll question is conveying absolutely nothing to me, I have no idea what is being asked. At all.

Serious question:
If God is everywhere, then - is he in the dump I just took? Would it be wrong to flush it? I need to know asap. Thanks.

hmm someones not 18 yet I can see.
Yeah quick, save your dump Gartref, before it disapates. :rolleyes:

God is like VISA - he's everywhere you are.

Sad that you view God as a credit card, are you in love with money?
Do you worship it?

[QUOTE=BackwoodsSquatches]You dont believe were that insignificant?
Why?
Becuase you cant accept it?

Well if you want to think your insignificant, then you have my condolences.



Its a proven fact that mankind will rationalize his way into answering questions like "Why are we here?", or "Where did we come from?"
and yet, no answers are forthcoming.

You obviously havent read the Bible, I dont think something like that would get made up just for the sake of rationalisation.


Maybe, its becuase there arent any to be had, and religion is a quick fix to aleiviate the angst that some people feel when they discover the truth.

And how do you know what the truth is, did you find it in the bottom of your wardrobe one day?
Like most athiests you view Christians as soley believing in God for sad and depressing reasons, like angst for instance, where as Im just happy to believe in God, because it makes me feel good. :)

Look around you...if Hell exists, then by your definition, Hell is all round you.
God is not here.

Prove that, and yes the onus is on you, as you stated it first.

Its so obvious, we are in him.
This universe were in is just one of his bodys molecules.
Thats why he can be everywhere at once.

1. Prove it.

2. As you can't prove it, at least explain what possible evidence and logic would lead to such a bizarre conclusion.

3. I thought you were Catholic. Isn't this heresy?

1. Prove it.

2. As you can't prove it, at least explain what possible evidence and logic would lead to such a bizarre conclusion.

3. I thought you were Catholic. Isn't this heresy?


1. It can be accepted a priori (self evident) as a basis for any argument made. Its like asking someone to prove that they exist, beyond merely pointing at themselves and asking "How can you doubt that I do when we are talking now" there is little else to be said (although epistomoligists seem to say a hell of alot on it...). To ask how everything is a part of God can really only be answered by asking how everything COULD NOT be a part of god? Yes we know of the gravatational constant and how two masses attract and this binds the universe together in some grand scheam and there are plants and animals and all this other wishy washy stuff and it is so much easier to accpet that it is all part of god (and more reasonable) than to say otherwise.

2. see above. Although faith and logic are really rather hard to reconcile. Look at Dunce Scotus if you want a headache reading something for an hour followed by a short laugh when you realize what hes saying.

3. I think this view stopped being heresy to the chatolics sometime in the 15th century (18th? really not sure on the date/century). The Dolorous Passion is one way to look at chatolism (Mel gibsons movie was based off this) and the other one is that of an infinite god which we are all a part of and which by living a pure life your divine soul will rise up to join God.

Q1)Cat tribe: what is it that you believe? why? what proof doy you have?

There are COUNTLESS universal theories that explain the universe, planetary systems, molecules and atoms, energies, from many religions, beliefs... they all can be interpereted to relate to the ALL. God. He "is". What is "is"? "Is" is everything and nothing therefore it just is .If you don't get it, study philosophy, spirituality, as many religious beliefs as you can, and one day, the moments you are enlightened will be great ones.

It's entirely possible. I threw that into several arguments on these boards, but as usual, nobody bothered to respond due to what seems to be the lack of anyone wanting to argue. Anyway.

While it is entirely possible, it doesn't fit Christian doctrine for one good reason: rebirth. A concept of a universal God doesn't provide the notion of spiritual reincarnation because, quite simply, it's impossible for the human spirit to get any closer to him than actually being inside him. If God does not exist independently of our own dimension then our death here is death on God's plane too. The only way to be reborn is to be physically absorbed by the God Biology to be used to create new life, which is in itself part of God.

Therefore, the concept of "Heaven", where the human spirit is "with God", falls down. Furthermore, the example of Jesus who retained his spiritual self would apparently be a counter-example, and if God is everyone, exactly what Jesus's death was supposed to accomplish becomes lost under an immoral suggestion of appeasing sacrifice or attention seeking. Since, arguably, those two aspects are the core of the faith, you're bound to run into more than minor disagreements.

That's not to say there's anything wrong with the theory. It does, of course, destroy the idea of God the Creator, as the only way for parts of a body to develop is through growth, which in turn requires a parent. An organic life form can't just will itself into existence. It's possible, though, that life through its very connectedness forms and sustains God in a similar way that natural Ecosystems seem to be a conscious balance between their inhabitants and that Societies of humans can be seen to act as a single body. Doing so, though, requires a raw, scientific account of the origin of existence through the likes of the big bang, and many Deists wouldn't particularly like that.

So, good idea, though not Christian. Not that that's a problem. ^^