NationStates Jolt Archive

this guy is wanted in venezuela for the bombing of a cuban airliner. he is wanted in cuba for a series of hotel bombings that killed one person. the miami cuban exile community want him to be given immunity.

do you think we should send him to cuba? send him to venezuela? someplace else? or give him immunity because he was a cia operative?

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- Federal agents arrested notorious Cuban exile leader Luis Posada Carriles near Miami Tuesday afternoon. He is reported to have been planning to leave the country.

Posada was legendary among south Florida's Cuban exile community for his plots to kill Cuban leader Fidel Castro.

He is wanted in Venezuela to face charges that he blew up a Cuban airliner in 1976, killing 73 people.

Castro has called Posada a terrorist and a monster and even staged a rally early Tuesday outside the U.S. Mission in Havana to demand his arrest. (Full story)

Posada, a onetime CIA operative, had been in hiding since he was smuggled into the United States via Mexico.

He had been seeking asylum in the United States, but told CNN earlier Tuesday he might withdraw that request because of the furor surrounding his presence in Miami.

Posada was seized near Miami by agents from the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.

Santiago Alvarez, who had helped pay Posada's legal bills during his bid to remain in the United States, said agents picked up Posada as he was planning to leave the country.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez -- a Castro ally -- has demanded the United States extradite Posada to face charges in the airliner bombing.

Posada adamantly denies any role in the attack. He was jailed for nine years in Venezuela, but he was never convicted and escaped in 1985.

The Associated Press reported he also served as a senior officer of the Venezuelan intelligence service and holds citizenship there.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said Venezuelan authorities had asked the federal government to arrest Posada and the request was referred to the Justice Department.

Posada said he was smuggled over the Mexican border into Texas and came by bus to South Florida.

He said he had been hiding but that in recent weeks people in Miami had begun to recognize him.

Posada's presence in the United States has presented a problem for U.S. officials, who want to support anti-Castro Cubans but are sensitive to terrorist charges against Posada.

Posada said he has not renounced violence, but declared, "I am not a terrorist."

When asked about Havana hotel bombings in 1997 that killed one Italian tourist, however, he refused to take any questions or make any comment.

Now in his late 70s, Posada was convicted in Panama of plotting with three Cuban exiles to kill Castro during a visit to Panama in 2000.

He later received a presidential pardon and has surfaced in Guatemala and Mexico before heading to the United States.

Asked if he would still like to kill Castro, Posada said, "He's rotting away."

The Homeland Security Department issued a statement after Posada's arrest that said the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency has 48 hours to rule on his immigration status.

"As a matter of immigration law and policy, ICE does not generally remove people to Cuba, nor does ICE generally remove people to countries believed to be acting on Cuba's behalf," the statement said.

Posada received CIA training in explosives and sabotage at Fort Benning, Georgia, after helping to organize the failed Bay of Pigs operation to oust Castro in 1961.

He said he stopped working for the CIA in 1968 but in the 1980s helped the U.S.-backed secret Contra supply network in Central America.

A senior official familiar with Posada's career said the CIA considers him "radioactive" and said he is no longer linked to the agency.

Well, I believe he should certainly face trial. If he were a UK resident, then extradition could be denied if he was at risk from the death penalty. However, this isn't the case in the US. I think Venezuela may be the best option, since there's a good chance he won't get a fair trial in Cuba.

Fair trial. Why is there any question? Hell, since his charges are of international terrorism they can fall under the rubric of crimes against humanity and thus be tried by the International Criminal Court.

He should get tried in one place (doesn't matter which) and if convicted, serve his sentence and then go to the other place and be tried and if convicted, serve his sentence there.

the cuban exile community of south florida want him to be given immunity because he is a "freedom fighter". im very concerned that the president might buckleunder to the pressure and let him stay here.

if it was the other way around and he had bombed an american airliner in venezuela and hotels here but was in cuba now, we would insist that they send him to us to prosecute.

the cuban exile community of south florida want him to be given immunity because he is a "freedom fighter". im very concerned that the president might buckleunder to the pressure and let him stay here.

if it was the other way around and he had bombed an american airliner in venezuela and hotels here but was in cuba now, we would insist that they send him to us to prosecute.

It would be horrendously stupid for the Bush regime to refer to a person who attacked a civilian target (an airliner) as a "freedom fighter"

I mean, what would that make the 9/11 hijackers and the suicide bombers in Iraq?

That said, I think the Bush Administration is that stupid. Let's sit back and watch the lunacy ensue.

it probably depends on when jeb is due for re-election. wouldnt want to lose the governorship because his brother was tough on terrorism.

He is a cuban terrorist? The only logical thing to do with him then is imprison him indeffinitely without charges in a US military base in Afghanistan, deny him legal counsel or contact with the outside world and give him a spiffy orange jumpsuit.

no no no he is a terrorist AGAINST the cubans, he hates castro and even in his old age and (prospective) retirement he refuses to renounce violence

so ...... he should be sent to disney world maybe?

The US can't send him to Venezuala because Venezuela would send him to Cuba, and that's a no-no. It would be like a European nation handing over a criminal to a nation with the death penalty.

so ...... he should be sent to disney world maybe?
The most hellish punishment of all. Imprisoned deep within the bowels of space mountain...

The US can't send him to Venezuala because Venezuela would send him to Cuba, and that's a no-no. It would be like a European nation handing over a criminal to a nation with the death penalty.
Cuba renounced the death penalty though.

The US can't send him to Venezuala because Venezuela would send him to Cuba, and that's a no-no. It would be like a European nation handing over a criminal to a nation with the death penalty.
Hint:

The US has a death penalty.


Quite frankly, if the evidence holds that he bombed a civilian airliner, extridite him.

Cuba renounced the death penalty though.
lmao thats a good one.

lmao thats a good one.
From Amensty International:

"Death Sentences and Executions in 2004

During 2004, at least 3,797 people were executed in 25 countries. At least 7,395 people were sentenced to death in 64 countries. These figures include only cases known to Amnesty International; the true figures were certainly higher.

Executions are known to have been carried out in the following countries in 2004:

AFGHANISTAN, BANGLADESH, BELARUS, CHINA, EGYPT, INDIA, INDONESIA, IRAN, JAPAN, JORDAN, KOREA (NORTH), KUWAIT, LEBANON, PAKISTAN, SAUDI ARABIA, SINGAPORE, SOMALIA, SUDAN, SYRIA, TAIWAN, TAJIKISTAN, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN

Death sentences are known to have been imposed in the following countries and territories in 2004:

AFGHANISTAN, ALGERIA, BAHAMAS, BANGLADESH, BARBADOS, BELARUS, BELIZE, BRUNEI DARUSSALAM, BURUNDI, CAMEROON, CHAD, CHINA, CONGO (Democratic Republic), EGYPT, EQUATORIAL GUINEA, ERITREA, ETHIOPIA, GUATEMALA, GUYANA, INDIA, INDONESIA, IRAN, IRAQ, JAMAICA, JAPAN, JORDAN, KENYA, KOREA (NORTH), KOREA (SOUTH), KUWAIT, KYRGYZSTAN, LAOS, LEBANON, LIBYA, MALAYSIA, MOROCCO, NIGERIA, OMAN, PAKISTAN, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, PAPUA NEW GUINEA, PHILIPPINES, QATAR, RWANDA, SAUDI ARABIA, SENEGAL, SIERRA LEONE, SINGAPORE, SOMALIA, SRI LANKA, SUDAN, SYRIA, TAIWAN, TAJIKISTAN, TANZANIA, THAILAND, TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, UGANDA, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, UZBEKISTAN, VIET NAM, YEMEN, ZIMBABWE

As in previous years, the vast majority of executions worldwide were carried out in a tiny handful of countries. In 2004, 97 per cent of all known executions took place in China, Iran, Viet Nam and the USA. In China, limited and incomplete records available to Amnesty International at the end of the year indicated that at least 3,400 people were executed, but the true figure was believed to be much higher. In March 2004 a delegate at the National People's Congress said that "nearly 10,000" people are executed per year in China. Iran executed at least 159 people, and Viet Nam at least 64. There were 59 executions in the USA, down from 65 in 2003."

Cuba ain't on there.

The most hellish punishment of all. Imprisoned deep within the bowels of space mountain...
they could put him in "its a small world" but its banned by the constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishment.

they could put him in "its a small world" but its banned by the constitutional protection against cruel and unusual punishment.
I don't know what that is but if he tries to escape though they should send him to sea world and feed him to shamu.

He committed crimes against the Nation of Cuba. The only reason the question even comes up is because the US detests the form of government in Cuba, and is just stupid enough to set a double standard like this. He either goes to Cuba to be prosecuted for terrorism against that nation, or the International Criminal Court. Come on, he committed terrorism with an airline, thats not something to play politics with. Little cuban boys and the custody rights, thats a different story :rolleyes:

Oh wait, I read further... he worked for the CIA? WTF? Contra supply network? Okay.. that just makes me shake with rage. This guy... this guy tried to topple a government, tried to kill a world leader, committed terrorism, AND worked for those murderous bastards, the Contras... killing civilians for god's sake... well, his latest crime was in Cuba, send him there.

I don't care what he did, the guy is batting over .320 - the Yanks would be crazy to let him go.

Fair trial. Why is there any question? Hell, since his charges are of international terrorism they can fall under the rubric of crimes against humanity and thus be tried by the International Criminal Court.

The US does not acknowledge the ICC and they have been actively seeking to undermine it, so they would not hand him over to it.

Posada Carilles is a mass murderer and a terrorist and if the USA is genuinely committed to the "war against terror" they will certainly send him to a country where he is facing charges. This should be Venezuela as they are the only country seeking his extradition and he was already convicted in Venezuela of bombing a Cuban airliner, killing 73 people, in the 1970's before he managed to escape. In Venezuela he will also be given a fair trial and will not be executed since the death penalty was abolished in 1863.

01. I as a native cuban voted to keep him here, even if he stays in prison it would be like under protective custody.
If handed over to Venezuela under Chavez it would be to hand him over to Chavez and Castro. It would be a big blow and hurt to the cubans in the USA if that were to happen.

02. Some of the early leaders of Israel and many world leaders in history were considered terrorists because they did terrorist actions or fought in wars in nations that were not democratic and went on to become democratic leaders.


03. In the case of Israel I am talking about the fact that they have democratic elections of diffrent political partys and social, economic and political views and economic freedoms, the pros and cons of how they treat the palestinian people is a seperate subject.


Even if you do not agree with me on Luis Posada,
does any one agree with my second statement?

Governor Jeb Bush has been re-elected and is not facing
re-election.

As a native cuban I hope he keeps him hear in Jail and pardons him after he leaves office, by that time who cares.

President Clinton and other presidents have pardoned people who should or should not have been pardoned.

I can understand other persons calling Luis Posada
a terrorist and comparing it to other terrorists actions,
even if I dont agree with them or dismiss it because of
how I feel about Cuba and Castro.

Castro did terrorists actions in dictador Batistas Cuba but in his case he replaced one dictador with another and in my personal view a much worse one.

When I talk about other world leaders that did terrorist actions in wars and went on to become democratic leaders of nations, I mean like in independence and civil wars
etc, etc.

I wish I had more time for more thoughts but its very late
here and I need to sleep a while, good night for now or so.

Venezuela has now promised that they won't ever send him to Cuba (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4560347.stm) so there is absolutely no reason for the USA not to extradite him, although I wouldn't see a problem if he was sent to Cuba due to his involvement in the bombings of hotels in Havana. I strongly disagree with the comments of La Habana Cuba and there is absolutely no justification ever for murdering 73 innocent people. You also can't compare that with the actions of Fidel Castro during the revolution where he was fighting against the security forces of a brutal dictatorship, far worse than the present government, and not against innocent people which is what Posada Carilles was doing.

I have lived in Cuba, I dont want to live there under Castro.

I have lived in Cuba, I dont want to live there under Castro.

And that justifies someone else killing more people. No.

Send him to Venezuela.
1. Venezuela has made a formal exrtradition request to the USA, Cuba, as far as I am aware, does not even have an extradition agreement with the USA

2. Try him for the greater crime first. 73 deaths against one. (I still believe that he should be tried for the 1 as well though)

3. It is politically better for the USA, no disgruntled ex cubans to worry about, and a clean face to show the international community.

"What should be done with Luis Posada?"

The same thing they should do with everyone about whom there are serious doubts: stand 'em against a wall and shoot their asses and let God decide what to do with them later! :rolleyes:

the United States of America is a sovereign Country...

so there is 3 question that need to be answered.

1# has Mr Posada Broken any US Law?
2# is there an extradition treaty with Cuba?
3# is there an extradition treaty with Venezuela?

if the answer is 3 times no...he should be allowed to carry on with his life.
otherwise he should be arrested and charged...or deported.