NationStates Jolt Archive

Wow. I'm blown away. Belinda Stronach, daughter of Frank Stronach of Magna Intl, silver-spoon darkhorse contender for last year's new Tory leadership race, has broken ranks and fled Steve Harper's Conservative party for Paul Martin's minority Liberal government.

I am completely blown away by this.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/17/stronach-liberals050517.html

And in other Canadian news,

http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/05/17/dollar-050517.html

The Canadian Dollar began regaining its' value once news of Stronach's "defection" hit the markets. Stevie Harper, take note:

Your time-wasting power games have not been, nor are they now, the things Canada or Canadians have needed. We don't need uncertainty, we don't need a stronger voice for separatism or disunity - and we very clearly don't need a political leader who is, in Belinda's own words, "not sensitive to the needs of all parts of the country, and is jeopardizing national unity by allying himself to the Bloc Québécois".

I never thought that in this lifetime I'd have a smile plastered on my face thanks to the deeds of Ms. Stronach, but here I sit, looking for all the world like a Cheshire cat.

Way to go, Silver Spoons...you did good today.

Bumps for all my fellow Canadians...


Le Bump!

There will be much celebration in Dobbs Town tonight.

Indeed there shall.

Yeah, I just read about this. I don't follow Canadian politics that much, but it's sure getting interesting. What a blow to the conservatives! I think Harper with making a deal with the devil so to speak. The Bloc (people who want to leave Canada) looks like Harper might have just slit his own throat. Yay!

Yeah, I just read about this. I don't follow Canadian politics that much, but it's sure getting interesting. What a blow to the conservatives! I think Harper with making a deal with the devil so to speak. The Bloc (people who want to leave Canada) looks like Harper might have just slit his own throat. Yay!

Well, don't think I don't feel a certain amount of sympathy for traditional Canadian conservatives - their political party, their voice in Canadian politics has been stifled and sent to the back of the bus by a gang of Neo-Con charlatans from the backwoods of Alberta, a crew of social-conservatives who have proven, very publicly, that they are not to be trusted with our collective cookie-jar.

Anyone who makes a deal with Mr. Duceppe and the Bloc should know better. Maybe Mr. Harper has learned his lesson, maybe not. I don't think the majority of Canadians right now are eager to elect him and find out the answer to that question.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/17/harper-stronach050517.html

What a hypocrite.

Catch the bit where he mentions recently telling his wife Stronach's leadership ambitions "would not be realized in this party regardless of whether we won the next election."

Funny, he's saying that Stronach would never have been in a position to gain party leadership - so, considering she was a leadership hopeful last year, what's in it for her to remain as part of his caucus? Free t-shirts?

Steve, you're so out of touch you need your newspapers printed in braille to keep up.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/17/harper-stronach050517.html

What a hypocrite.

Catch the bit where he mentions recently telling his wife Stronach's leadership ambitions "would not be realized in this party regardless of whether we won the next election."

Funny, he's saying that Stronach would never have been in a position to gain party leadership - so, considering she was a leadership hopeful last year, what's in it for her to remain as part of his caucus? Free t-shirts?

Steve, you're so out of touch you need your newspapers printed in braille to keep up.


Sounds like he wants to be in charge all by himself. I guess he got his wish.

Personally I applaud Ms. Stronach. Her move will be a small part of a bigger movement to save this country. Im sorry, but I really believe that if the liberals are defeated in this manner, and the Conservatives take over, with the help of the bloc, there will be another referendum in Quebec within five years and the Canadian federation will die

Sounds like he wants to be in charge all by himself. I guess he got his wish.

He probably didn't like the fact that (so I have read) that her star was shinning much brighter with Canadians than his was, regardless of him winning the leadership race.

From all I have read it seems like Canadians don't want to be conservative. The Liberals there are not the same as the Democrats, it seems they are more of a center party and it's the NDP(?) that are the "liberals" The only place I can really see any real group of conservatives from reading up on it is in Alberta. But they can't win the election. Apparently usually Ontario & Quebec wins all Canadian elections.

Wow. I'm blown away. Belinda Stronach, daughter of Frank Stronach of Magna Intl, silver-spoon darkhorse contender for last year's new Tory leadership race, has broken ranks and fled Steve Harper's Conservative party for Paul Martin's minority Liberal government.

I am completely blown away by this.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/17/stronach-liberals050517.html

And in other Canadian news,

http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/05/17/dollar-050517.html

The Canadian Dollar began regaining its' value once news of Stronach's "defection" hit the markets. Stevie Harper, take note:

Your time-wasting power games have not been, nor are they now, the things Canada or Canadians have needed. We don't need uncertainty, we don't need a stronger voice for separatism or disunity - and we very clearly don't need a political leader who is, in Belinda's own words, "not sensitive to the needs of all parts of the country, and is jeopardizing national unity by allying himself to the Bloc Québécois".

I never thought that in this lifetime I'd have a smile plastered on my face thanks to the deeds of Ms. Stronach, but here I sit, looking for all the world like a Cheshire cat.

Way to go, Silver Spoons...you did good today.
WOW is right!! Although this won't guarantee that the Liberals will win the budget vote on Thursday, it will go a long ways towards helping out. This is a good budget for all of Canada and I am surprised that Harper has even taken the opportunity to risk an election on it. He clearly supported the budget through the first two readings. Talk about a hypocrasy!!

The poll released yesterday also showed a dramatic surge in Liberal support, up to 43% in Ontario, which is a clear sign that the people do NOT want an election at this time.

I think Stronach could see that the best result that Harper could expect was a minority Conservative government, who would NOT be supported by an increased and more determined Bloc Party. Talk about chaos?

WTG Ms. Stronach....yes she did good today!!

Hello to all Canadians,

For some reason (actually due to my job mainly), I have been monitoring the news in Canada regarding your present minority government's problems.

I am shocked at the tone of debate in your Parliament over the last few weeks. Politics seem to be very very confrontational in Canada, I was wondering - obviously this is a heighten scenerio at the moment, but are politics and parliamentarism in Canada generally so confrontational?

Personally I applaud Ms. Stronach. Her move will be a small part of a bigger movement to save this country. Im sorry, but I really believe that if the liberals are defeated in this manner, and the Conservatives take over, with the help of the bloc, there will be another referendum in Quebec within five years and the Canadian federation will die
Personally speaking, I don't see Quebecers voting for separation any time in the near future. Although the Bloc are poised to win more seats in the next federal election, the fact remains that they (Quebecers) gain more by staying within Confederation.

The Canadian Constitution guarantees bi-lingualism, and that alone helps to perserve the French culture within Canada. Quebec is also a net receipient of transfer payments to the tune of billions of dollars. There are many more reasons for Quebec to stay within Canada than for opting out.

but are politics and parliamentarism in Canada generally so confrontational?

Not to the point of fist fights and food fights like in some nations, but mostly jabs at one other when speaking to the house...

From all I have read it seems like Canadians don't want to be conservative. The Liberals there are not the same as the Democrats, it seems they are more of a center party and it's the NDP(?) that are the "liberals" The only place I can really see any real group of conservatives from reading up on it is in Alberta. But they can't win the election. Apparently usually Ontario & Quebec wins all Canadian elections.

Well...it's all slightly different up here, of course...your Democratic party falls somewhere to the right of our Conservative party... the Republicans are so far-right they wouldn't register on Canadian political-radar...

And yes, we have a socialist party, the NDP.

Saying that Ontario & Quebec win all Canadian elections isn't quite accurate anyomre, however; Since the advent of the Bloc Quebecois, the traditional political parties have been vote-starved in Quebec, leaving Ontario as a major battle-ground in recent elections.

The "new" Conservative party has failed, election after election, to make reasonable in-roads, not just in Quebec, but in Ontario - and there should be a clear message in that refusal to elect, in large numbers, "new Tory" MPs in this part of central Canada... traditional, small-'c' conservative voters do not approve of Mr. Harper, as they did not approve of his predecessors, the embarrassingly parochial Stockwell Day and the man behind the Neo-Con revolt on the Prairies, the prim Preston Manning.

The secret to winning gains in Ontario is to demonstrably show to ALL Canadians that the Conservative party of Canada stands for the concerns of conservative Canadians throughout Confederation, not just the mean-spirited, anti-progressive, uber-christian social-conservatives from Alberta.

It's time these so-called "new" Tories wake up and remember why people used to elect Tory governments in this country, and stop bitching that people prefer a supposedly 'corrupt' regime over their 'Republican-lite' approach to the issues facing our nation.

Not to the point of fist fights and food fights like in some nations, but mostly jabs at one other when speaking to the house...

Ah-ha, the dear Italians and Russians, got to love them.

First of all, Harper has made no deal with the Bloc like the Liberals made with the NDP. Its Liberal corruption that is advancing separatism, not just in Quebec, but in Western Canada aswell.

I also think its good that she left the Conservatives. If any of you listened to "Adler" this morning he said that she left to put Harper's leadership in jeparady and give her bed mate, Peter Mackay, more of a chance at a takeover. Probably unlikely since he as leader with this girlfriend as opposition should be somesort of conflict of interest.

are politics and parliamentarism in Canada generally so confrontational?

Not generally, no. Not even in the context of a minority government. But Mr. Harper is, I feel, directly responsible for the confrontational tone emanating from Ottawa these last few months.

Personal power and glory over and above the needs of the nation. This is a palpable low in Canadian politics.

Yeah, I just read about this. I don't follow Canadian politics that much, but it's sure getting interesting. What a blow to the conservatives! I think Harper with making a deal with the devil so to speak. The Bloc (people who want to leave Canada) looks like Harper might have just slit his own throat. Yay!
Heh. Remeber back during the campaign everyone was saying that the liberals were going to have an even smaller majority and were going to have to team up with the bloc and the ndp and Harper was going on about how terrible the liberals were for wanting to have deals with the bloc?

Ah, the irony.

And also, as someone who would rather not have a bigot in charge of the country, I am happy about this whole thing. As a student in need of a quick, well paying temporary job, I am mildly disappointed. Elections Canada is an excellent employer.

First of all, Harper has made no deal with the Bloc like the Liberals made with the NDP. Its Liberal corruption that is advancing separatism, not just in Quebec, but in Western Canada aswell.

I also think its good that she left the Conservatives. If any of you listened to "Adler" this morning he said that she left to put Harper's leadership in jeparady and give her bed mate, Peter Mackay, more of a chance at a takeover. Probably unlikely since he as leader with this girlfriend as opposition should be somesort of conflict of interest.

'Adler'?

Who?

And I'm not gonna touch the subject of Ms. Stronach's or Mr. MacKay's personal lives. That's just not politic.

Charles Adler is a radio host from Winnipeg. He has a national show on the Chorus Radio Network which begins at 2 pm. He also has a Manitoba only show in the morning.

I almost spite my dinner on my screen when I saw that....

Im not to much into the conservative party, but what a political whore! Few years ago she was running for the leadership of the party, and now she betray them...

And what an opportunist Martin is, giving a minister job to an outsider... I wounder how Lucienne Robillard (who was minister) will react? Given she is also a political whore (she went to the PLC after losing here provincial election because she srewed Quebec's school systems).

Speaking of Duceppe and Harper making devil pact, I found this picture just so disturbing: http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/article/article_complet.php?path=/actualites/article/17/1,63,0,052005,1035758.php

Hehe and here we all thought Canada was so boring. ;)

Again, WOW!! Good on Belinda Sronach; she will be a valuable leader in due time.

Hello to all Canadians,

For some reason (actually due to my job mainly), I have been monitoring the news in Canada regarding your present minority government's problems.

I am shocked at the tone of debate in your Parliament over the last few weeks. Politics seem to be very very confrontational in Canada, I was wondering - obviously this is a heighten scenerio at the moment, but are politics and parliamentarism in Canada generally so confrontational?The way debates work in Parlaiment during Question Period is the reason why Canadian politics seem so incredibly low and vulgar these days. Question Period, aimed at making sessions more lively and interestig to watch have degenrated into shouts, sensationalism, and outright mud-slinging. Its a shame, and it should stop. The high-tension situation of a minority government teetering on collapse, and an adversarial leader of the opposition compounds the present lack of restraint and manners.

Hello to all Canadians,

For some reason (actually due to my job mainly), I have been monitoring the news in Canada regarding your present minority government's problems.

I am shocked at the tone of debate in your Parliament over the last few weeks. Politics seem to be very very confrontational in Canada, I was wondering - obviously this is a heighten scenerio at the moment, but are politics and parliamentarism in Canada generally so confrontational?

Here, parlement is by definition a bashing fest

From all I have read it seems like Canadians don't want to be conservative. The Liberals there are not the same as the Democrats, it seems they are more of a center party and it's the NDP(?) that are the "liberals" The only place I can really see any real group of conservatives from reading up on it is in Alberta. But they can't win the election. Apparently usually Ontario & Quebec wins all Canadian elections.
The thing is that the conservatives were alright when they were moderate. The progressive conservative party was alright (yes, this is coming from an NDP supporter) they fucked things up huge in Ontario recently (leaving us with an 8 billion dollar defecit, selling off the pay highway before they'd even covered the expense of building it, royally screwing over our health care and education et c) the liberals aren't doing much better now (their promise not to hike taxes or cut services has kinda fucked them up) and I can't remember a time when the consevatives were in power at the federal level, but the progressive conservatives were never really frightening. The alliance and reform parties were quite freaky. They were about at par with the republicans in the states. They merged with the progressive conservatives, which freaked out a number of progressive conservatives who wanted nothing to do with that shit, the conservatives also put someone who goes on fox news in the states and bad mouths his own country, petitions churches to go against gay marriage et c. in charge...

But yeah, the liberals are centrist, the NDP are liberal, the Bloc are separatist, but pretty liberal (part of why a conservative-bloc deal would never work) the conservatives as they are are scary, if they readopted the progressive aspect then they might be alright.

And of course Quebec and Ontario win elections. You've got 1/4th of the entire population in the country living in between Windsor and Quebec city.

I happy to see the move, and I pray that the Budget vote will go in the Liberals favour. We need a stable working government, and Martin has been trying with the other parties to make this happen. Which is more then I can say about Harper, who seems hell bent on shutting the government down.

I've had a funny feeling the past few months, that Harper gambit to overthrow the liberal party, despite public opinion, has created a rift in the conservative party between the Grass root members of the Alliance and the old conservative party.

Not to mention the fact that Harper has very publicly allied himself with the Bloc. A move that in my observation has angered many Canadian, who this as the ultimate betrayal. To put this in perspective for you Americans out there, it would be like having the Democrats side with Communist in an attempt to overthrow the Republicans.

If the Conservative force Canadians back to the poll before they are ready they will pay the same price that the Liberals paid in the last election. Either way that Canadians vote in a forced election we will have another minority government and we’ll be right back to where we started. However, it has been shown that Harper does not have what it takes to lead a minority government, and the coming budget vote will be the final test to see if Martin has what it takes.

Speaking of Duceppe and Harper making devil pact, I found this picture just so disturbing: http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/article/article_complet.php?path=/actualites/article/17/1,63,0,052005,1035758.php
Hahaha. That is freaky.

I've got to wonder though, wouldn't a deal with the conservatives screw up things with the bloc? I mean, the people of Quebec, from what I heard, are quite adamant in terms of civil rights, the right to choose and the right for homosexuals to marry are in opposition to the conservative party, yet important in Quebec, I thought. So wouldn't the Bloc aligning themselves with the Conservatives kinda screw that up?

That picture was taken at the V E celebrations which Paul Martin was late getting to. It was also front page of the Globe and Mail.

A few of you have called the Duceppe and Harper a "Devils pact" yet Mr. Layton is the one making deals with the devil himself, Dithers. How can Mr. Layton support this kind of corruption? The Liberals should have been out of government a long time ago.

Now here's a picture: https://www240.ssldomain.com/westernstandard/website/graphic/online_store/graphic_libranos_poster.jpg

Even if the budget pass, it will only be a plaster... A party can drive the country if he have to make aliance and concession everytime he need to vote something. Just in the last 3 weeks, Martin as made promise for 18 billions dollars, and all know we dont have that kind of money. When he needed NPD's support, he just added 4 billions in expense he took from no where.

Election are costly, but doing some now or in 1 years is pretty much the thing, exept that Martin wont have time to crash our economy for is one political interest.

Let's just say, I will be giggling well into next week. It's a tremendous plot twist that will change the dynamics of Parliament for awhile...for the dramatic value alone I like it.

From all I have read it seems like Canadians don't want to be conservative. The Liberals there are not the same as the Democrats, it seems they are more of a center party and it's the NDP(?) that are the "liberals"
The Canadian Liberal Party is to the left of the Democrats.

A few of you have called the Duceppe and Harper a "Devils pact" yet Mr. Layton is the one making deals with the devil himself, Dithers. How can Mr. Layton support this kind of corruption? The Liberals should have been out of government a long time ago.
Who the hell is Dithers?

And perhaps if the conservatives didn't put Harper at the riens, they would have gone somewhere. Harper is scarily conservative. Not to mention that he went on fox news to complain about Canada. Nothing says you love your country like bitching about it to your neighbour.

Hello to all Canadians,

For some reason (actually due to my job mainly), I have been monitoring the news in Canada regarding your present minority government's problems.

I am shocked at the tone of debate in your Parliament over the last few weeks. Politics seem to be very very confrontational in Canada, I was wondering - obviously this is a heighten scenerio at the moment, but are politics and parliamentarism in Canada generally so confrontational?

It's more fun that way...

Even if the budget pass, it will only be a plaster... A party can drive the country if he have to make aliance and concession everytime he need to vote something. Just in the last 3 weeks, Martin as made promise for 18 billions dollars, and all know we dont have that kind of money. When he needed NPD's support, he just added 4 billions in expense he took from no where.

Election are costly, but doing some now or in 1 years is pretty much the thing, exept that Martin wont have time to crash our economy for is one political interest.
Well, didn't he say that he'd call an election after the investigation into the scandal was done? I would say it isn't a bad idea to let everyone know exactly what's going on, to have all the facts before going to the polls.

A few of you have called the Duceppe and Harper a "Devils pact" yet Mr. Layton is the one making deals with the devil himself, Dithers. How can Mr. Layton support this kind of corruption? The Liberals should have been out of government a long time ago.

Hey, I'll be among the first to agree the Libs should've been turfed a while back, but Mr. Harper has demonstrated, first in orchestrating the merger between the PCs and the Reform/Alliance, and later, through dealing behind-the-scenes with Duceppe, that he is NOT Prime-Ministerial material. He, and his party, are just as corrupted as the government they vilify.

And in that case, better the devil the electorate knows than the one they don't.

As far as trying to paint the Lib-NDP coalition as equally damnable, well- that's what minority govs do. Look it up. I'll say this much, though - Layton and Martin were totally upfront and very public about their arrangement. Not so for either Harper or Duceppe.

And I find that VERY telling.

I've got to wonder though, wouldn't a deal with the conservatives screw up things with the bloc? I mean, the people of Quebec, from what I heard, are quite adamant in terms of civil rights, the right to choose and the right for homosexuals to marry are in opposition to the conservative party, yet important in Quebec, I thought. So wouldn't the Bloc aligning themselves with the Conservatives kinda screw that up?

Actually, this is wheird...

In a way, yes conservative are not much popular here. So much that many of Quebec circonscription did'nt even had a conservative candidate at last election, wich is kind of bad for a party who want to rule the country.

But in a other way, Harper's view about decentralising Canada is well appreciated in Quebec. We see it that way: A) Harper's decentralise Canada, wich give more power to Quebec, wich is now happy B) Harper's is a fascist beggot imposing rules we dont want, and therefore help the separatist cause

The Canadian Liberal Party is to the left of the Democrats.

C'mon, the Canadian Conservative party falls to the left of the American Democratic party...

Election are costly, but doing some now or in 1 years is pretty much the thing, exept that Martin wont have time to crash our economy for is one political interest.

Riiiiight. Martin? Crash our economy? Martin, who as Finance Minister under Jean Crouton delivered how many? Eight? Eight budget surpluses? During a time when all G-8 nations reported deficits?

Tu reves en couleurs, mon ami.

Our economy, meanwhile, has been sputtering and gasping during this recent period of political uncewrtainty. Like I said before, better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

And I'm not a Liberal. Let me re-iterate: NOT a Liberal.

C'mon, the Canadian Conservative party falls to the left of the American Democratic party...
The progressive conservatives, yes, the current federal conservatives, no.

All of our parties do.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050517.wstrospe0517/BNStory/Front

Article follows for easy perusal. Bolds are mine, for editorial emphasis.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stronach's statement

Tuesday, May 17, 2005 Updated at 11:21 AM EDT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Thank you, Prime Minister.

After difficult reflection, I reached a conclusion. I cannot exaggerate how hard this was for me. The political crisis affecting Canada is too risky and dangerous for blind partisanship. I watch and listen and feel that the interests of individuals or parties are often placed above the national interests. The country must come first.

The current political crisis is too risky to enter into partisan politics. I have observed, I've listened, and I believe that the interests of persons and parties have superseded those of the national interests. Our country must be our priority.

I entered politics in the first place both to be a strong voice for the citizens of New Market and Aurora, and to try to make my country stronger and better. To have healthy politics in Canada, we need the checks and balances of more than one strong and vibrant party.

Over time, the Conservative Party will mature and grow to provide that option. There are many good and talented folks that I have a great deal of respect for in the Conservative Party. But I find myself at a crossroads forced on me by the decision of the leader of the Conservative Party to try to force the defeat of this government this Thursday.

It is now the moment to stand and be counted because the consequences are serious. I've been uncomfortable for some time with the direction the leader of the Conservative Party has been taking.

I tried to the very best of my ability to play a constructive role within the Conservative Party to advance issues that really mattered to Canadians in cities, to women, to young people, to many Ontarians.

But regret to say that I do not believe the party leader's truly sensitive to the needs of each part of the country and how big and complicated Canada really is.

Also, by forcing an election before the Conservative party has grown and established itself in Quebec, the hold over Quebec of the Bloc Québécois can only grow into the vacuum. The result will be to stack the deck in favour of separatism and the possibility of a Conservative government beholden to the separatists.

After agonizing, soul searching, i just cannot support such a large risk with my country. I'm as offended as any Canadian by the arrogance of entitlement at the core of the sponsorship scandal.

Today, the Prime Minister has given me the chance to serve my constituents and my country by making a difference at a critical time.

Among several things, he's asked me to take aggressive action on the lessons that will come from the Gomery inquiry, and to put priority on renewing the Canadian democracy.

Our political structures and institutions need renewal. Canadians are crying for political stability. Only in this way can we direct the focus of government once again to growing a competitive economy that safeguards our quality of life.

Only when the people of Canada have renewed confidence and faith in the systems of government can we return to ethics and civility.

Thank you."

Those a fighting words. *aplause*

On an unrellated note, I just voted for the first time ever!!!

Riiiiight. Martin? Crash our economy? Martin, who as Finance Minister under Jean Crouton delivered how many? Eight? Eight budget surpluses? During a time when all G-8 nations reported deficits?

Tu reves en couleurs, mon ami.

Our economy, meanwhile, has been sputtering and gasping during this recent period of political uncewrtainty. Like I said before, better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

And I'm not a Liberal. Let me re-iterate: NOT a Liberal.

Im saying Martin will crash our economy if he continue to make big gift to everyone so he can stay in power.

I admit he did a pretty good job at redressing our economy in the last years, but 3 thing bother me a lot about him:
1) He made surplus by picking money in the "assurance emploi" program and by simply cutting transfert to province. All province financial minister are actually the ones who had to make the difficult decisions in the last years.
2) Former president of the Steamship transport compagny he never paid a penny in canadian tax while he was minister of finance.
3) Formely finance minister, he claim no responsability in the commandit scandal or even the fire arms legislation that costed 2 billions... When the finance minister job is actually to check how money is spent.

Election are costly, but doing some now or in 1 years is pretty much the thing, exept that Martin wont have time to crash our economy for is one political interest.

Crash your economy? Is it not Martin that gave Canada huge trade surplus and balanced your budget for years now while acting as Finance Minister? I've read up on this quite a lot lately. It seems that the last conservative government in Canada was Brian ? and he put you in so much debt he destroyed his own party in the end. Also from what I understand, these new conservatives are social conservatives and not per se fiscal conservatives. In the States what you guys are calling a scandal is every day business only in the states it's called "pork" seems to me like the Liberal party is doing the best job that can be expected as far as the economy goes.

Wow. I'm blown away. Belinda Stronach, daughter of Frank Stronach of Magna Intl, silver-spoon darkhorse contender for last year's new Tory leadership race, has broken ranks and fled Steve Harper's Conservative party for Paul Martin's minority Liberal government.

I am completely blown away by this.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/05/17/stronach-liberals050517.html

And in other Canadian news,

http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/national/2005/05/17/dollar-050517.html

The Canadian Dollar began regaining its' value once news of Stronach's "defection" hit the markets. Stevie Harper, take note:

Your time-wasting power games have not been, nor are they now, the things Canada or Canadians have needed. We don't need uncertainty, we don't need a stronger voice for separatism or disunity - and we very clearly don't need a political leader who is, in Belinda's own words, "not sensitive to the needs of all parts of the country, and is jeopardizing national unity by allying himself to the Bloc Québécois".

I never thought that in this lifetime I'd have a smile plastered on my face thanks to the deeds of Ms. Stronach, but here I sit, looking for all the world like a Cheshire cat.

Way to go, Silver Spoons...you did good today.


Very cool. She's probably the only member of the Conservatives that had my respect. :)

Thank Christ for small mercies. Belinda did well today.

To put it simply, I'm fed up. I'm not fond of the Liberals; I'm not fond of the NDP; I'm not fond of the Conservatives; but I hate the Bloc Quebecois. To me, when the Conservatives allied themselves with the Bloc instead of looking for the good of Canada as a whole, when they sacrificed the cause of federalism in allying themselves with a seperatist party for short-term political gain, they sacrificed all worth they had.

I agree with the Conservatives on a few issues - same-sex marriage, the military, tax cuts - but by allying with the Bloc, all they did was confirm in my mind that the Liberals, however corrupt and bloated they may be, still deserve to be in power. Paul Martin may not be the most honest bloke around, but he's no seperatist - nor would he aid and abett them.

So much for that election - and good riddance. If only I was one year older; then I'd have my 18th birthday by that time.

Let me say this again, The Conservatives Did Not Make An Alliance With The Bloc.

If the NDP hadn't made a deal with Dithers, they would be onside with the Conseratives and Bloc aswell (That said, the Conservatives would have supported the budget if the NDP hadn't made there deal).

The Dithers Gov't should have resigned long time ago. Right now we have a gov't who refuses to resign even after a majority of our ELECTED M.P.s have voted that they do not have confindence in the liberals. That's over 50% of Canadians who were not heard becasue Dithers decided to ignore them.


Riiiiight. Martin? Crash our economy? Martin, who as Finance Minister under Jean Crouton delivered how many? Eight? Eight budget surpluses? During a time when all G-8 nations reported deficits?

If the Liberals kept every promise they have made in the last few weeks, they will put our country back into deficit.
I read an editorial last week (I think it was in the globe and mail) that said Dithers is expecting the budget to fail in the Commons. That way he can fight an election on "Look at all the money you didn't get because of the Conservatives." He really can't have this budget pass because one of the thing that really set him apart when they made him leader was his abilities as finance minister.

That said, in an interveiw with Reg Alcock (Liberal Minister) on Richard Cloutier Reports, Reg said that Dithers approched Ms. Stronach about crossing the floor (thus the reason why she gained a cabinate position). This would mean he actually does want to stay away from an election.

This would mean he actually does want to stay away from an election.

As do we all, in these here parts. What we want to see are the political parties working co-operatively with, i.e. publicly making deals and coalitions with the seated minority gov in order to have a greater concensus in policy, as well as clear out the backlog of business before the House of Commons. Far too much time has been wasted on intrigue both personal and party-driven, and far too little given over to the greater responsibility of governing the nation.

Gomery will deliver. An election will be called. Why the hurry? Why the need to come to undisclosed, back-room agreements with Separatist interests to unseat the government?

Pure, unbridled Hubris. Stevie Harper is not fit to be Prime Minister, not from where I stand. Plain and simple.

You don't casually make deals with Separatists, Stevie - not ever. Not and expect to get away with it, anyway. And there's a great big fat example as to why you aren't fit to sit behind the desk in the PMO - you don't frickin' even understand Canadian national politics, otherwise you'd have never made that big of an ass of yourself and your party.

Don't forget that there were several hundred thousand Anglophone Quebecers displaced in the "Anglo Exodus" of people and businesses between 1976 and 1984. I'm one of them. And I am shocked to the marrow that any traditional political party in Ottawa would have anything whatsoever to do with the Bloc Quebecois.

Let me say this again, The Conservatives Did Not Make An Alliance With The Bloc.

Yes they did.

Hurray, what great choices we have, the conservatives are in bed with a sepertist party and the corrupt scum bag liberals are in bed with a socialist fruit loop party!

yippee! maybe we will have bullshit like a national day care system, I know i want the state to raise 4 year olds!!!

bye bye to a national army to peace keep, we can jsut give dictators cash straight up, instead of the whole nasty peace keeping with the guns and the killing baddies and all.

Gomery will deliver. An election will be called. Why the hurry? Why the need to come to undisclosed, back-room agreements with Separatist interests to unseat the government?
Chetien is trying to get the Gomery off the commission. This would mean even after a report is published, Dithers won't have to let us vote. He doesn't want a vote because he loses either way. Many have said that if the Liberals make gov't again, that there will be a race between Alberta and Quebec to see who separates first. Klein threatened to separate over Kyoto, how long will he be willing to tag along if this budget passes?

I'm not buying it. Dithers is the one who is not fit to be PM. He avoids the taxes he inflicts by keeping his ships outside of Canadian water.

He struts around V-E Day (which he showed up late to), extolling the virtues of Canada's fighting men and women and suggesting their bravery was what this nation is all about. This from the same man who personally gutted the military when, as finance minister, he cut the defence budget 25% and its personnel levels 25%.

He claims he had no idea about the envelopes stuffed with money that were funnelled from the liberal gov't, through a mofia affiliate, and into the liberal party AND PQ in Quebec. If he didn't know what was going on in his own department (Which testimonies have said is a lie) how can he run our country?

The conservatives got rid of the liar when they had one as their party leader, why won't the liberals do the same?

Hurray, what great choices we have, the conservatives are in bed with a sepertist party and the corrupt scum bag liberals are in bed with a socialist fruit loop party!

yippee! maybe we will have bullshit like a national day care system, I know i want the state to raise 4 year olds!!!

bye bye to a national army to peace keep, we can jsut give dictators cash straight up, instead of the whole nasty peace keeping with the guns and the killing baddies and all.

Ok, let me get this straight, you're more worried about protecting other countries than giving your own people affordable daycare for their children so they can like do things like umm work to pay taxes to put back into your own system? You must not be a parent. In fact I get a feeling from your response you're also not very old. Otherwise you would know the importance of daycare no matter what country you live in.

From what I see there is only one of those 4 parties that are trying to break up Canada and it's not your Liberal government in bed with them. Do the math. You think if the conservatives bring down the Canadian government with the help of the party that wants to break up Canada that if they win and get elected that the people trying to break up your country won't want something in return? Doesn't sound very smart to me. In fact it sounds quite stupid.

Hey jackass, how about having the choice of how where and how to raise 4 year olds and not having the state do it?

If the liberals had some guts and some morals they would resign, as this is a major scandal and let the voters decide, or perhaps you dont believe in democracy.

Hey jackass, how about having the choice of how where and how to raise 4 year olds and not having the state do it?

If the liberals had some guts and some morals they would resign, as this is a major scandal and let the voters decide, or perhaps you dont believe in democracy.

1) Don't flame me again. I'll give you a free pass on this one.

2) So what you're saying is you think that government is where morals should be taught, but should have no part in helping their people get affordable daycare. Do you even know what you're talking about? I don't know what part of Canada you live in, but from what I've read you sound like the fruitloops from Alberta.

we can jsut give dictators cash straight up
We pretty much already do. From: http://www.ncpa.org/pi/internat/pd080699g.html

Canada's Failing Foreign Aid Policy Canadian foreign aid dollars are being directed towards the least economically free countries, says a new report by Canada's Fraser Institute. Aid recipients were ranked using Index of Economic Freedom developed by Fraser and other research organizations. The index looks at items such as the rule of law, access to an impartial judiciary, monetary policy, and taxes.

The report notes that 74.4 percent of Canadian aid has gone to the bottom 40 percent of countries ranked according to the level of economic freedom in that country (see figure).

Indeed, countries that restrict the freedoms of their citizens the most are more likely to have Canadian foreign aid sent directly to the government, rather than non- governmental organizations.

Recent research at the World Bank indicates that aid sent to countries with bad policy environments does little to help growth, whereas aid given to those with better policy environments can be beneficial [...]

Hey jackass, how about having the choice of how where and how to raise 4 year olds and not having the state do it?

If the liberals had some guts and some morals they would resign, as this is a major scandal and let the voters decide, or perhaps you dont believe in democracy.
If the Conservatives had some guts and some morals, they wouldn't make a deal with the Devil (otherwise known as Gilles Duceppe) in order to bring down the government. No one should dispute that the Liberals are corrupt, but the Conservatives are just plain power-hungry, going so far as to risk the very survival of Canadian Confederation by increasing the support for a seperatist party. The Conservatives are playing political Russian Roulette - and I, for one, will not stand by and watch the country let them do it.

I don't know what part of Canada you live in, but from what I've read you sound like the fruitloops from Alberta.
*COUGH*

He is from Alberta...

*COUGH*

He is from Alberta...

OMG! Is he? hahaha, well that does explain a lot then. Thanks! I love it when I'm right. hehe.

OMG! Is he? hahaha, well that does explain a lot then. Thanks! I love it when I'm right. hehe.
Oh don't worry, I think we all love to be right. Except right-wing that is!

...

Sorry, everyone.

Oh don't worry, I think we all love to be right. Except right-wing that is!

...

Sorry, everyone.

Oh trust me, I'm no right-winger, Lets just say I didn't vote for Bush! ;)

That picture was taken at the V E celebrations which Paul Martin was late getting to. It was also front page of the Globe and Mail.

A few of you have called the Duceppe and Harper a "Devils pact" yet Mr. Layton is the one making deals with the devil himself, Dithers. How can Mr. Layton support this kind of corruption? The Liberals should have been out of government a long time ago.

Now here's a picture: https://www240.ssldomain.com/westernstandard/website/graphic/online_store/graphic_libranos_poster.jpg

Oh for goodness sake, Layton's the only one who has been dealing honourably. He requested changes to the budget that the NDP could support AND were good for the entire country, not just special interests. Layton wasn't gaining money for the NDP, or selling himself out -- he was coalition building, which is what must happen for a minority government of any stripe to succeed. Mr. Layton has not forgotten that the majority of Canadian voters -- however slim -- did indeed elect the Liberals to govern us less than a year ago. In the US, a 1% margin is considered 'a mandate', but apparently in Canada, a 7% margin in the popular vote is not. (Note that the last majority Liberal gov't had a 10% margin in the popular vote.)

I find it hilarious (and yet infuriating) that Harper referred to Layton as being the devil the Liberals were dealing with. Meanwhile, the NDP offer to have some of their MPs sit out the budget vote to make up for the ill Conservative MPs who may be unable to make it to the budget vote. Sure, the Libs stepped up and made those deals to -- but it was the NDP who made the offer first. And all Harper was trying to do was make political hay out of his sick MPs. That and joining with the Bloc to shut down the House so that our politicians had an excuse for getting even less done than usual.

Why are people trying to demonize Layton when he and his party are the only ones trying to do their job? Which, by the way, is governing Canada, not trying to bring the government down when 60% of Canadians have indicated that they don't want an election until after the Gomery inquiry is complete.

If the Conservatives had some guts and some morals, they wouldn't make a deal with the Devil (otherwise known as Gilles Duceppe) in order to bring down the government. No one should dispute that the Liberals are corrupt, but the Conservatives are just plain power-hungry, going so far as to risk the very survival of Canadian Confederation by increasing the support for a seperatist party. The Conservatives are playing political Russian Roulette - and I, for one, will not stand by and watch the country let them do it.
Newsflash... every party is in the house to gain power. The liberals have given separatists new footholds with their scandals and are destroying our country to keep themselves in power. They ignored the vote of non-confindence, and ignored Canadians.


Yes they did.

Simply not true. Just becasue two parties vote against the gov't does not mean they have a secret alliance. They are oppostition parties. Why would you think it strange that they oppose the gov'ts budget or call on a corrupt leader to resign?

Newsflash... every party is in the house to gain power. The liberals have given separatists new footholds with their scandals and are destroying our country to keep themselves in power. They ignored the vote of non-confindence, and ignored Canadians.
The Conservatives are only making things worse. We can blame the Conservatives for the rise of the Bloc in the first place, and now their efforts to destroy the only real federalist opposition to the Bloc in Quebec is succeeding pretty well. The Liberals' loss is the Bloc's gain.

As for ignoring the vote of non-confidence, it wasn't one. They scheduled a real one, and as for ignoring Canadians, the country has made it pretty clear they want an election once the Gomery inquiry is finished (polls, mostly). So rather, it's the Conservatives who are going against the wishes of Canadians.

Im pretty sure the liberals did more to advance the seperatist cause than the conservatives voting with the BQ every in a million years would.

The peops in quebec are more pro seperatist because of the scandal you morons, not because the conservatives are trying to take down the liberals.

wtf are you poeples smoking???????

What does it take to vote out the liberals a conversative party with peter mckay leading it?

Do the liberal cronies have to rob a bank? i mean wtf is wrong with people in toronto?

Simply not true. Just becasue two parties vote against the gov't does not mean they have a secret alliance. They are oppostition parties.

You can't really be this naive about politics can you? I don't care what country you're in, it's all the same.

Im pretty sure the liberals did more to advance the seperatist cause than the conservatives voting with the BQ every in a million years would.

The peops in quebec are more pro seperatist because of the scandal you morons, not because the conservatives are trying to take down the liberals.

wtf are you poeples smoking???????
Marijuana, you right wing creep! ;) I kid, I kid.

But seriously, the Liberals made their fair share of screwups, but how would a government formed by the Conservatives with maybe one or two MPs in Quebec fare? How represented would the Quebeckers feel then? How much would that advance the separatist cause?

Im pretty sure the liberals did more to advance the seperatist cause than the conservatives voting with the BQ every in a million years would.

The peops in quebec are more pro seperatist because of the scandal you morons, not because the conservatives are trying to take down the liberals.

wtf are you poeples smoking???????

I was told a few pages back you're from Alberta..from what I've read, you'd say anything true or not to get the Liberals out of power.

From what I understand Alberta is like Texas to Canada nuff said!

I can bet you the BQ will literally sweep the next election in quebec, so dont talk about a "mandate" in quebec for the liberals.

I personally would like to see peter mckay as leader, he was the right choice that should have been made, right wing economics and left wing social policies (gay marriage) is what the majority of canada wants, reguardless of what the fruit loops in the NDP party want.

Im pretty sure the liberals did more to advance the seperatist cause than the conservatives voting with the BQ every in a million years would.

The peops in quebec are more pro seperatist because of the scandal you morons, not because the conservatives are trying to take down the liberals.

wtf are you poeples smoking???????

Very true. You can find a Paul Martin's head in rubber in almost every Quebec petshop for the chewing instinct of your dog.

I can bet you the BQ will literally sweep the next election in quebec, so dont talk about a "mandate" in quebec for the liberals.
Ever thought why that might be? It's not just the Liberals corruption, that's like an open wound for Quebec. But the Conservatives, with their actions in Parliament, are pouring salt on that wound. By allying themselves with the Bloc (don't try and deny it) they've only helped separatism. The federalist parties should be united against the Bloc, not divided.

What does it take to vote out the liberals a conversative party with peter mckay leading it?

Do the liberal cronies have to rob a bank? i mean wtf is wrong with people in toronto?

If Peter McKay were leader, less conservative Canadians might be less prone to believe that the Conservatives have a ‘hidden agenda’. On the other hand, many of us will remember that he signed a written agreement with David Orchard not to join the PC’s with the Alliance if Orchard supported McKay as leader. So, I would suggest that if the Conservatives want more acceptance, they find themselves a popular moderate Ontario leader to head the Conservative party. You know, like Belinda Stronach....whoops. Not that it matters. The Conservative party and their current supporters are unlikely to back a moderate Ontario-ian as a leader, since the Albertans will feel all alienated again.

Too many people choke on the social conservative policies held by many in the Conservative party. The more moderates who leave the party -- for whatever reason -- the harder it will be for the Conservatives to pick up centerist votes.

I was told a few pages back you're from Alberta..from what I've read, you'd say anything true or not to get the Liberals out of power.

From what I understand Alberta is like Texas to Canada nuff said!

If alberta was in the states it would be one of the richest states firstly, and then it would be more of a closely divided battleground state like ohio or something like that, cept with alot more clout and cash...


Alberta is more right wing than toronto true, not even in the same league as texas though.

Its good to note that in the last federal election alberta had the 2nd highest popular vote for the green party.

BTW thanks for being generalist yankee baby killer!

Ever thought why that might be? It's not just the Liberals corruption, that's like an open wound for Quebec. But the Conservatives, with their actions in Parliament, are pouring salt on that wound. By allying themselves with the Bloc (don't try and deny it) they've only helped separatism. The federalist parties should be united against the Bloc, not divided.

or perhaps all the popular support knuckleheads in ontario are giving the liberals after all this crap is like pouring acid on the open wound...

Its good to note that in the last federal election alberta had the 2nd highest popular vote for the green party.


LOL -- I think pretty much everyone has forgotten that the NDP was born in Alberta.

Im pretty sure the liberals did more to advance the seperatist cause than the conservatives voting with the BQ every in a million years would.

The peops in quebec are more pro seperatist because of the scandal you morons, not because the conservatives are trying to take down the liberals.

wtf are you poeples smoking???????

You really don't understand eastern Canada, Jay. Really, really, really. Separatists the least of all.

Steven Harper might as well have had the number '666' tattooed on his forehead the day he bedded The Bloc.

Thanks 'conservatives', try us again after you're done figuring out your next new party name and bumpkin leader.

--snip--
Speaking of Duceppe and Harper making devil pact, I found this picture just so disturbing: http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/article/article_complet.php?path=/actualites/article/17/1,63,0,052005,1035758.php
ROFLMFAO!!
The Zombies of Federal Politics!!

You really don't understand eastern Canada, Jay. Really, really, really. Separatists the least of all.

Steven Harper might as well have had the number '666' tattooed on his forehead the day he bedded The Bloc.

Thanks 'conservatives', try us again after you're done figuring out your next new party name and bumpkin leader.

It's clear you guys wont pardon Harper for having the same position has the Bloc, even if this is not an alliance. Just normal opposion party opposing the governement.

But, if Quebec ever separate, it will be a 100% liberal fault. Mainly because of the commandit scandal and the fact liberals violate many election rules at the last referendum.

Actually, this is wheird...

In a way, yes conservative are not much popular here. So much that many of Quebec circonscription did'nt even had a conservative candidate at last election, wich is kind of bad for a party who want to rule the country.

But in a other way, Harper's view about decentralising Canada is well appreciated in Quebec. We see it that way: A) Harper's decentralise Canada, wich give more power to Quebec, wich is now happy B) Harper's is a fascist beggot imposing rules we dont want, and therefore help the separatist cause
From your post, it appears that you support the "separatist cause"?

If so, what would you expect Quebecers to gain from separation, and what are you willing to give up?

In the event of Quebec seperation, Quebec must have a second vote, county-by-county, on partition. As well, Quebec should only be accorded those areas of modern-day Quebec that were part and parcel of the province's earlier colonial holdings. The north lands, formerly Crown lands, territories administrated by the provincial government of Quebec, should revert to the First Nations whose people still live, work or otherwise make use of those lands.

The James Bay Hydro projects were joint ventures between the Federal and Quebec provincial govts. Quebec doesn't walk away with them. Quebec doesn't walk away with anything. Everything is negotiated. Every last detail.

Labrador is strictly not on the table. Period. Any First Nations people who wish to remain Canadian, remain Canadian. Any county in Quebec that votes for partition remains Canadian. Any people living in Quebec should themselves have the right to be Canadian.

If Quebec wants out, they leave with what they had before our destinies became one.

I'm for separation mostly because having to deal with 2 stages of government is way to complicated. The way powers have been devised is just plain wrong IMO. Province are giving the autonomy to run by themself like a country, but they cant because there is always something they need to refer to Ottawa. Province drive there education and healt system, they can give orientation to there economy, but always have to refer for international trading, for anything touching communication. Buisness have to deal with 2 complex tax systems...

I would'nt be against the "abolition" of province for a more powerfull government in Ottawa. But I think the canadian population is too much diversified to be controled by a central governement. That's why I think it would be better if all province would go appart and we (all province) would just work our way trougth economical and political treaty like a normal federation.

I'm not one of these separatist freak who think Quebec could survive without any form of trading with Canada, we are way to small. But i also laugth at Canadian who think they could also survive without Quebec, there is a lot of trading going for both side (est-west) and we both need it.

For losing/gaining, yes we would have to paid for 25% of the debt, but we also own 25% of canadian possesion. In reallity we wont start to take 25% of canadian real estate and paid 25% of the debt. A division would need to be done, and yes it would be a pain in the ass.

Concerning the territory, modern day border is the only way to go... we could argue for years on history border (1927 before we lost a chunk to newfounland, pre-1867 when quebec included mostly montreal and Quebec city, at this point we could also claim Canada was 100% french before France gave it to UK).

Now partition is the biggest scaring bullshit since 1980 when Brick's (not sure of the name) did a big truck convoys to illustrate how our economy would crash. Quebec is a political entity with some international recognition. Quebec have an historic reason to demand separation. If Ottawa want to give any geographic area the rigth to separate, I shall declare right now my 3 1/2 unilaterally sovereign. You can come anytime you want, all drugs and prostitution are now legal.

Anyway, on practice partition would be unfeasible. Devising Berlin in 2 was one of the biggest joke of history. You are'nt gonna devise Montréal like a suiss cheese putting customs at every street corner and passing a scanner on every one using subway.