NationStates Jolt Archive

(AFP)

LAHORE, Pakistan - A Pakistani court in the first verdict of its kind has declared valid the marriage of a 12-year-old girl, a lawyer and court officials said on Friday.

A judge sitting at the High Court in the eastern city of Lahore gave the ruling on the grounds that in Islam a female can marry if she has reached puberty, the officials told AFP.

He accepted a joint petition by the girl, named as Zeenat Bibi, and her 25-year-old husband Babar Javed and dismissed charges of rape which were filed by her father.

“This is the first time that a court has validated marriage of a 12-year-old girl in Pakistan,” her lawyer Azeem Sarwar said. The decision was handed down on Wednesday.

The ruling also overrides the Muslim Family Law under which the marriageable age for girls in Pakistan is 16 years, he added.

Gross, but no less disgusting than in American public schools it's considered normal for 11 year old girls to no longer be virgins. Hell that's being "sexually open-minded," I guess.

Meh ... one judge's decision, even in Pakistan, does not a country make. Just as in the United States, a judgement in Pakistan may be overturned.

If in the end, however, it is decided that 12 is okie dokie for marriage in Pakistan, so be it. It's not my place to tell them how to run their country.

Incidently, in Islam, it is also forbidden to force someone into marriage. The only way that girl got married in the first place is by her agreeing to the marriage. If she'd said no, then there would have been no marriage.

Gross, but no less disgusting than in American public schools it's considered normal for 11 year old girls to no longer be virgins. Hell that's being "sexually open-minded," I guess.

Where do you live that this is considered normal?

Incidently, in Islam, it is also forbidden to force someone into marriage. The only way that girl got married in the first place is by her agreeing to the marriage. If she'd said no, then there would have been no marriage.

Let's be honest here - rape victims in those sorts of countries often don't have much of a choice, what with them bearing the shame and often being punished. Marrying their rapist to preserve honour is often the only "choice" they have.

Quote:Where do you live that this is considered normal?

Umm...just about anywhere this is "normal". Normal does not qualify as "acceptable" to me, by the way. I'm 16 year old male and I really REALLY dislike sexually promiscuous girls...and guys...But sadly, the point of 11 year olds no longer being virgins is quite accurate I'd say. Sad...very sad, but true.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is still possible to get married in the United States at the age of 13, yes?

Meh ... one judge's decision, even in Pakistan, does not a country make. Just as in the United States, a judgement in Pakistan may be overturned.

If in the end, however, it is decided that 12 is okie dokie for marriage in Pakistan, so be it. It's not my place to tell them how to run their country.

Incidently, in Islam, it is also forbidden to force someone into marriage. The only way that girl got married in the first place is by her agreeing to the marriage. If she'd said no, then there would have been no marriage.
Keruvalia, since when do "Muslim" nations follow Muslim principles? You know as well as I do the sham that passes for Islam in much of the Middle East.

Let's be honest here - rape victims in those sorts of countries often don't have much of a choice, what with them bearing the shame and often being punished. Marrying their rapist to preserve honour is often the only "choice" they have.


True ... and I am talking about Islam ... not the way it is perverted by Islamic governments. So noted.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is still possible to get married in the United States at the age of 13, yes?
No! Hell no! Are you kidding me? Where have you been for the last, say, 100 years?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is still possible to get married in the United States at the age of 13, yes?
Umm...extreme circumstances, I believe.

No! Hell no! Are you kidding me? Where have you been for the last, say, 100 years?
No, no...I've heard somewhere that teens can be married in extreme circumstances.

But I always thought it would be a 16, 17 year old kinda thing. Not sure about 13....

No! Hell no! Are you kidding me?

Nope.

Where have you been for the last, say, 100 years?

You're too young to remember Jerry lee Lewis in his prime then?

Umm...just about anywhere this is "normal". Normal does not qualify as "acceptable" to me, by the way. I'm 16 year old male and I really REALLY dislike sexually promiscuous girls...and guys...But sadly, the point of 11 year olds no longer being virgins is quite accurate I'd say. Sad...very sad, but true.

^what he said.

I definitely don't consider it acceptable... hell I thought having 11 year old cheerleaders at public elementary schools was fucking disgusting... they never used to, and I'm pretty sure at one point 11 year old virgins were the overwhelming majority. Now I'm not so sure. :(

It is not 13. Proof? The legal age of consent is 18. For a marriage to be deemed legal, it must be consumated.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is still possible to get married in the United States at the age of 13, yes?

Yes.

In most states it requires parental consent. That is, of course, unless the girl is pregnant, in which case she may not need parental consent.

It is not 13. Proof? The legal age of consent is 18. For a marriage to be deemed legal, it must be consumated.

http://www.nhbar.org/about_text.asp?SectID=6&C=168

"As far as the marriage of children under age is concerned, you should know that the age of majority in New Hampshire is 18. No girl under the age of 13 or boy under the age of 14 may marry and any marriages so performed are absolutely void. Marriages entered into by boys over 13 but under 18 are only valid if parental or court permission has been obtained. If no such permission exists, the marriage is voidable."




Marriageable age

United States: Usually 18. Most states, however, allow marriage at a younger age with parental or judicial consent. Some states allow marriage at a still younger age if the female is pregnant or with child.

California: 18 generally, unlimited with parental consent.
Florida: 18 generally, 16 with parental consent.
Mississippi: 17 for males, 15 for females, unlimited with parental consent.
New York: 18 generally, 16 with parental consent, 14 for males and 13 for females with court permission.
North Carolina: 18 generally, 16 with parental consent, unlimited in case of pregnancy or birth of child with parental consent.
Texas: 18 generally, 14 with parental consent, 13 with court permission.
Utah: 18 generally for first marriage, 14 with previous marriage or with parental consent.

Umm...just about anywhere this is "normal". Normal does not qualify as "acceptable" to me, by the way. I'm 16 year old male and I really REALLY dislike sexually promiscuous girls...and guys...But sadly, the point of 11 year olds no longer being virgins is quite accurate I'd say. Sad...very sad, but true.

It wasn't "normal" where I grew up. It likely isn't normal where you are either. There are probably some girls who are vocal about it and many, many more who just don't tell one way or the other.

It is not 13. Proof? The legal age of consent is 18. For a marriage to be deemed legal, it must be consumated.

First of all, the legal age of consent in nearly every state is under 18. 16 is rather common.

Second of all, that has nothing to do with it. There are separate laws allowing marriage before that age.

and I'm pretty sure at one point 11 year old virgins were the overwhelming majority. Now I'm not so sure. :(have you atended high school lately?

most 12 year-old girls are NOT virgins.

and they dress like they want some...ASAP.

have you atended high school lately?

most 12 year-old girls are NOT virgins.

I'm not that far out. And most 12-year old girls were.

In fact, about half of 16-17 year old girls were.

In fact, about half of 16-17 year old girls were.WOW... when?
when Kennedy was president? :D

thats when Keneddy was president? :D

Clinton, actually.

Gross, but no less disgusting than in American public schools it's considered normal for 11 year old girls to no longer be virgins. Hell that's being "sexually open-minded," I guess.


hey lets note that it's a different culture though it may be said as gross here in american culture but not in theirs :headbang:

Clinton, actually.amazing...and what high school was that?

have you atended high school lately?

most 12 year-old girls are NOT virgins.

That's why I said "at one point," it used to be different. Just like at one point, they didn't used to have elementary school cheerleaders.

Quote:Where do you live that this is considered normal?

Umm...just about anywhere this is "normal". Normal does not qualify as "acceptable" to me, by the way. I'm 16 year old male and I really REALLY dislike sexually promiscuous girls...and guys...But sadly, the point of 11 year olds no longer being virgins is quite accurate I'd say. Sad...very sad, but true.
no its not.

how about you provide one shred of proof that it is "normal" "common" "average" or even "acceptable" for an 11 year old to be sexually active.

amazing...and what high school was that?

A quick scurry across the net gives an average age for losing virginity in the US to be about 15 or 16. Now, it is possible that half the people are losing their virginity at age 11 and the other half are waiting till 20 or so, but I think a distribution somewhat closer to the average is somewhat more likely.

Well in Australia the martial age can be lowered (for females) from 16 to as low as 14, under the order of a Magistrate.

amazing...and what high school was that?

Richmond Hill High School in backwoods, GA.

Of course, those few that were sexually active at a young age also tended to get pregnant. The rest of us did not.

A quick scurry across the net gives an average age for losing virginity in the US to be about 15 or 16.and how can "the Net" know that?...gallup polls? :rolleyes:

I been in high school ...and by the time they are 16...there is almost no virgins left.

A quick scurry across the net gives an average age for losing virginity in the US to be about 15 or 16. Now, it is possible that half the people are losing their virginity at age 11 and the other half are waiting till 20 or so, but I think a distribution somewhat closer to the average is somewhat more likely.
exactly

they never tell you what the standard deviation is but id guess (like guessing does you any good in statistics) is less than 2 years which would make 11 year olds well past 2 standard deviations. which makes it far from normal.

and how can "the Net" know that?...gallup polls? :rolleyes:

I'm claiming no particular authority for the results I got: the fact that I said I only made a quick scurry was intended to suggest that a pinch of salt should be taken with my post.

You lot, as mostly Americans, would be better equipped than I, a foreigner, to identify the more and the less trustwothy or agenda-led organisations which were presenting the results of and carrying out such surveys in the US.


EDIT: forgot to add 'in the US', without which the second paragraph makes little sense.

another stat "the net" usually offers is that at 16 there is more virgin Girls than virgin boys...

but actually its the other way around...

EDIT:me too ... forgot to add 'in the US', :)

another stat "the net" usually offers is that at 16 there is more virgin Girls than virgin boys...

but actually its the other way around...
and what do you base that on?

and what do you base that on?first hand information...direct from the sources.

first hand information...direct from the sources.

And you know all of the male and female teenagers in America?

And you personally saw everyone who claims to have lost their virginity having sex?

My, you are busy.

My, you are busy.LOL...yes I am very busy...Its personally my fault if virginity is going down coast-to-coast :D :eek: :D :D

And you know all of the male and female teenagers in America?

And you personally saw everyone who claims to have lost their virginity having sex?

My, you are busy.

As much as I find myself arguing along your lines, I have to disagree with your implied point. It is indeed, impossible to interview every male and female teenager in America and assess their claims about virginity and sex. But that doesn't mean that until and unless you do that you can make no claims about teenagers having sex in this society.

Earlier someone asked for "evidence." good lord, what kind of 'evidence' would be required? 50 million stained dresses, Lewinsky-style? Sex is one of those things that nearly everyone who does it, has no evidence to show for it. We can't live in a philosophical limbo because of that; evidence is required for legal trials and not much else.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is still possible to get married in the United States at the age of 13, yes?I think 12 or 13 is wrong for both Pakistan and USA...

I think the minimun should be 14 for Pakistan and 18 for USA...

As much as I find myself arguing along your lines, I have to disagree with your implied point. It is indeed, impossible to interview every male and female teenager in America and assess their claims about virginity and sex. But that doesn't mean that until and unless you do that you can make no claims about teenagers having sex in this society.

Earlier someone asked for "evidence." good lord, what kind of 'evidence' would be required? 50 million stained dresses, Lewinsky-style? Sex is one of those things that nearly everyone who does it, has no evidence to show for it. We can't live in a philosophical limbo because of that; evidence is required for legal trials and not much else.

And yet one person posted evidence in the form of a poll.

The other says "Well, I've talked to some people in my home town, and that means everyone across the country is humping like rabbits."

I think the minimun should be 14 for Pakistan and 18 for USA...

Why should Pakistan have a different marriagable age than the US?

Why should Pakistan have a different marriagable age than the US?
IMO...
in the USA it is accepted by society that a younger couple 16-17... become engaged, have sex, or live together before mariage..
Not so in most of Pakistan.

IMO...
in the USA it is accepted by society that a younger couple 16-17... become engaged, have sex, or live together before mariage..
Not so in most of Pakistan.

Either you live in backwoods, nowhere, USA, or you are completely full of it. I have yet to see any area where it is widely accepted for a couple of 16 or 17 year olds to be engaged and live together.

IMO...
in the USA it is accepted by society that a younger couple 16-17... become engaged, have sex, or live together before mariage..
Not so in most of Pakistan.

So, basically you are saying that in order to force people to conform to society's expectations in the USA it is necessary to grant them less rights than they would possess in other countries?

We can't live in a philosophical limbo because of that; evidence is required for legal trials and not much else.

so on what basis do you propose we evaluate competing claims if not by evidence?