NationStates Jolt Archive

In a society as barbaric as this one, I am not surprised to have talked to many who have incurred the wrath of thier own parents or of the judiciary and be sentenced to a fate worse than death.

I am very concerned that a friend may be 'talked' into going to one, and I need all the help I can get

Post the horror stories here, or AIM me at [DELETED] if you have any advice on how to get him out of it should it happen.

All I have heard is that the purpose of boot camp is to dehumanize you and strip you of all individuality.

I don't personally think that's a good thing...

He can always say he's gay. Those US military types seem to have the biggest problem with that.

All I have heard is that the purpose of boot camp is to dehumanize you and strip you of all individuality.

I don't personally think that's a good thing...

What you have heard, sadly, is correct. That such a thing is allowed in this country is a testament to the fundamentally barbaic, violent, and REPREHENSABLE nature of this country's culture.

There are better ways to serve your country. Taking the car less frequently is already good.

There are better ways to serve your country. Taking the car less frequently is already good.

The country is not served by teaching violence to the youth by example, you are right.

You migth want to read this tread:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=418100

He can always say he's gay. Those US military types seem to have the biggest problem with that.

Or develop a chronic ailment. That's one reason why I never have to worry about being drafted.

Still have Crohns to worry about though...meh.

Or develop a chronic ailment. That's one reason why I never have to worry about being drafted.

Still have Crohns to worry about though...meh.

Chrons sucks, man. :(

your friends parents want him to join the military?

good idea.

Chrons sucks, man. :(

Ah! I'm on the rebound! Thanks man, but I'm feeling pretty good right now! :D

your friends parents want him to join the military?

good idea.

HOW DARE YOU SPEAK LIGHT OF SUCH A FATE! If he is being pressured into doing something like that against his will, it is my obligation to assist him in getting out of it if he wants me to, which he does. I have read enough boot camp horror stories to know that to be complacent to such a thing would haunt me for the rest of my life. I've already lost one friend to these gun-toting sociopaths, I shall not loose another!

your friends parents want him to join the military?

good idea.

Yeah, I'm not fully certain that's what the man wants to hear right now.

HOW DARE YOU SPEAK LIGHT OF SUCH A FATE! If he is being pressured into doing something like that against his will, it is my obligation to assist him in getting out of it if he wants me to, which he does. I have read enough boot camp horror stories to know that to be complacent to such a thing would haunt me for the rest of my life. I've already lost one friend to these gun-toting sociopaths, I shall not loose another!

If it is against his will, then he can't be forced into it...right? Right????

He can always say he's gay. Those US military types seem to have the biggest problem with that.

The US doesn't use military service as a punishment for crimes. It would be an affront to those who have volunteered and served with valour and dignity.

I think he's talking about prison boot camp. Completely different.

The US doesn't use military service as a punishment for crimes. It would be an affront to those who have volunteered and served with valour and dignity.

Riiight.

I think he's talking about prison boot camp. Completely different.

Well, if he wants a good time, the gay card still remains playable.

If it is against his will, then he can't be forced into it...right? Right????

A military school or boot camp he has no say over since he is below 18. There, he might be persuaded through by no means honest and underhanded methods to join the military. That is why I was looking at getting him an alternate identity.

HOW DARE YOU SPEAK LIGHT OF SUCH A FATE! If he is being pressured into doing something like that against his will, it is my obligation to assist him in getting out of it if he wants me to, which he does. I have read enough boot camp horror stories to know that to be complacent to such a thing would haunt me for the rest of my life. I've already lost one friend to these gun-toting sociopaths, I shall not loose another!

if hes lucky enough to be accepted, it will do him a world of good. millions of americans have served in the military with honor; few regret it.

A military school or boot camp he has no say over since he is below 18. There, he might be persuaded through by no means honest and underhanded methods to join the military. That is why I was looking at getting him an alternate identity.
you are going to suggest that he run away from home??

A military school or boot camp he has no say over since he is below 18. There, he might be persuaded through by no means honest and underhanded methods to join the military. That is why I was looking at getting him an alternate identity.

~? Just insist to his parents that he doesn't want to go (in a nice and peaceful manner). The government certainly can't force him to join - it's his parents, no?

if hes lucky enough to be accepted, it will do him a world of good. millions of americans have served in the military with honor; few regret it.

You fully certain that's what he wants?

You fully certain that's what he wants?
oh if he doesnt want in, they wont take him. all im sure of is that alexonium doesnt want it.

oh if he doesnt want in, they wont take him. all im sure of is that alexonium doesnt want it.

Tell me, have you served?

Riiight.

It's true. We don't. Military service has not been a viable alternative to prison since before WWII. Believe it or not, our military is very selective. Even volunteering is not a guarantee. A criminal record of any kind, drug use, certain types and locations of tattoos, and a host of other things will have the military refuse you or severly limit the opportunities it will present you.

When I joined the Army, I wanted to be a pilot. Know why I couldn't go to flight school? I was too tall, which could have been overlooked, but I bounced a check when I was 17. You honestly think the Army would take a crack dealer who's just trying to get out of going to prison?

Well, if he wants a good time, the gay card still remains playable.

*snicker* :D

Actually, to be honest, military training is not all bad and no good. It teaches you to be independent, determined, analytical and a whole lot of other good qualities that will lead you to success in life (see Kelly Perdew, The Apprentice #2). For example, my cousin survived Singaporean National Service and is fine and well.

Of course, this all depends on the motive of the military training. I wouldn't do it in a million years if I knew was going to be shipped to a warzone to burn, destroy and kill.

Tell me, have you served?
no i havent. but i do know many people who have.

Actually, to be honest, military training is not all bad and no good. It teaches you to be independent, determined, analytical and a whole lot of other good qualities that will lead you to success in life (see Kelly Perdew, The Apprentice #2). For example, my cousin survived Singaporean National Service and is fine and well.

Of course, this all depends on the motive of the military training. I wouldn't do it in a million years if I knew was going to be shipped to a warzone to burn, destroy and kill.

It may also depend on the military itself. You mentioned the Singapore military? That may be very different than military training in the US.

Actually, to be honest, military training is not all bad and no good. It teaches you to be independent, determined, analytical and a whole lot of other good qualities that will lead you to success in life (see Kelly Perdew, The Apprentice #2). For example, my cousin survived Singaporean National Service and is fine and well.

Of course, this all depends on the motive of the military training. I wouldn't do it in a million years if I knew was going to be shipped to a warzone to burn, destroy and kill.

As I have said, I have read enough horror stories about military schools and boot camps to make it my obligation as a friend to assist him if he does not want to. I have spoken to him, he said in no uncertain terms he does not want to go along with this stuff.

As for the school or camp taking him, as far as they are concerned, he is property. The parents sign the papers, the boy belongs to them.

And as I have said, it would be a serious burden on my concience to allow him to be scarred to life in this fate worse than the 9th circle. And I do not know if I could resist dying by my own hand if something was to happen to him.

Men were not made to kill and be killed, the animals do that enough. Or at least that is my take on it.

It may also depend on the military itself. You mentioned the Singapore military? That may be very different than military training in the US.

Perhaps. After all, Singapore's national service is compulsory, unlike the American voluntary system. Plus, the demand for Singaporean military is far less than the American military (to station all over the globe), so their methods should be different. The last time I've heard of the Singaporean military go overseas was the Indonesian earthquakes, and also peacekeeping in East Timor. I might actually consider the National Service if I didn't get the offer to go on to university.

you are going to suggest that he run away from home??

I am suggesting if his father leans twoard sentencing him to such a fate, I get him a second identity. I have enough to take care of both of us should shit hit the fan.

As I have said, I have read enough horror stories about military schools and boot camps to make it my obligation as a friend to assist him if he does not want to. I have spoken to him, he said in no uncertain terms he does not want to go along with this stuff.

As for the school or camp taking him, as far as they are concerned, he is property. The parents sign the papers, the boy belongs to them.

And as I have said, it would be a serious burden on my concience to allow him to be scarred to life in this fate worse than the 9th circle. And I do not know if I could resist dying by my own hand if something was to happen to him.

Men were not made to kill and be killed, the animals do that enough. Or at least that is my take on it.

Your loyalty and compasion towards your friend is to be commended.

EDIT: Thousand posts? Cool.

As I have said, I have read enough horror stories about military schools and boot camps to make it my obligation as a friend to assist him if he does not want to. I have spoken to him, he said in no uncertain terms he does not want to go along with this stuff.

As for the school or camp taking him, as far as they are concerned, he is property. The parents sign the papers, the boy belongs to them.

And as I have said, it would be a serious burden on my concience to allow him to be scarred to life in this fate worse than the 9th circle. And I do not know if I could resist dying by my own hand if something was to happen to him.

Men were not made to kill and be killed, the animals do that enough. Or at least that is my take on it.

How old is your friend? Can he run? I really shouldn't be encouraging anyboby to run away from home, should I? Perhaps he can persuade his parents that he'll study well and get onto college. Parents usually buy that.

It's true. We don't. Military service has not been a viable alternative to prison since before WWII. Believe it or not, our military is very selective. Even volunteering is not a guarantee. A criminal record of any kind, drug use, certain types and locations of tattoos, and a host of other things will have the military refuse you or severly limit the opportunities it will present you.

When I joined the Army, I wanted to be a pilot. Know why I couldn't go to flight school? I was too tall, which could have been overlooked, but I bounced a check when I was 17. You honestly think the Army would take a crack dealer who's just trying to get out of going to prison?

You mean TV and American cinema have lied to me?

*snicker* :D

A snickering sound wasn't exactly what I had in mind. :p

I am suggesting if his father leans twoard sentencing him to such a fate, I get him a second identity. I have enough to take care of both of us should shit hit the fan.
good luck with that

You mean TV and American cinema have lied to me?

Are you surprised? Oh ... also .... nobody ever robbed a train by riding up along side it on a horse and jumping on a moving train. Everybody was armed. The would-be robber would have been riddled with bullets before he made it to the train.

Also, Kate Hudson really can't act.

Oooh ... and Memento is not a true story. Neither is Fargo. Star Wars, however, is.

A snickering sound wasn't exactly what I had in mind. :p

*squish squish*?

You mean TV and American cinema have lied to me?



A snickering sound wasn't exactly what I had in mind. :p

if you think the US military takes criminals, yes you are wrong. we have an all volunteer military and many people are turned down. we have no problem filling all the slots with law abiding highschool graduates. we dont need to take those who would otherwise be sent to prison.

As an American, it is your right to defend your nation. It is his choice to make. The military is not a slave drive. The military wants future leaders; you start at the bottom to learn to follow and work yourself up to be a leader. A good leader is always a good follower first.

I wish him luck in whatever he wants to do. I've been in the military for six years now. I enjoy the work and the people. The people are in fact the best part. I think he would enjoy it if his mind was into it. But he has to want to do it. If he is against war or gay, I am in the military to defend that right. Whatever you beleive of people in the military, most of them fight not for the politician but the idea of right/wrong.

if you think the US military takes criminals, yes you are wrong. we have an all volunteer military and many people are turned down. we have no problem filling all the slots with law abiding highschool graduates. we dont need to take those who would otherwise be sent to prison.
Which happens to be why the US military has missed targets (again).

Are you surprised? Oh ... also .... nobody ever robbed a train by riding up along side it on a horse and jumping on a moving train. Everybody was armed. The would-be robber would have been riddled with bullets before he made it to the train.

Not really. Credibility has not been one of the US's fortes lately.

Also, Kate Hudson really can't act.

Oooh ... and Memento is not a true story. Neither is Fargo.

You liar! You take that back!

Star Wars, however, is.

The thought of a thing like JarJar ever existing IRL is too scary to be a laughing matter.

*squish squish*?

You need to watch more gay porn. We all do.

if you think the US military takes criminals, yes you are wrong. we have an all volunteer military and many people are turned down. we have no problem filling all the slots with law abiding highschool graduates. we dont need to take those who would otherwise be sent to prison.

I read that recruitment goals were not being met, so I take what you say cum grano salis.

Note: Gays should be allowed into the military. Does not matter who you fuck as long as you do your job.

Stop being such a whiny bastard. Boot camp is strict, but it will turn your friend into a physically fit and mentally strong individual. And if he wants to serve in the army, so what? He's fulfilling his patriotic duty. Get of your high horse, and stop treating service like it is hell.

the national guard missed its goal. did the rest of the military?

Not really. Credibility has not been one of the US's fortes lately.

Well, yeah, but don't take it out on our movies. That's like those people who took The Davinci Code out of the *fiction* section of the book store and thought the guy was being serious. Movies aren't supposed to have credibility, they're supposed to entertain. Supposed to, anyway. I prefer Bollywood, myself.

You liar! You take that back!

NEVER!

The thought of a thing like JarJar ever existing IRL is too scary to be a laughing matter.

The truth is an unspeakably ugly thing sometimes. *sage nod*

You need to watch more gay porn. We all do.

It has been a while. Last one I saw had something to do with some guys on bikes and a barn and "needing to take a break".

No, the Marines are on tarket as well as the Air Force and Navy. In fact, the Air Force and Navy are over thier goals. Right now the two forces are doing an operation blue to green. It is a voluntary request for Airman and Sailors to go into the Army.

You need to watch more gay porn. We all do.

And you define "all" as...?

Well, yeah, but don't take it out on our movies. That's like those people who took The Davinci Code out of the *fiction* section of the book store and thought the guy was being serious. Movies aren't supposed to have credibility, they're supposed to entertain. Supposed to, anyway. I prefer Bollywood, myself.

I like the singing and dancing, but all the plot twists and old ladies that die horribly sad death just get to be annoying after a while.

NEVER!

You are a cruel people.

The truth is an unspeakably ugly thing sometimes. *sage nod*

I can take ugly, but I can't take JarJar.

It has been a while. Last one I saw had something to do with some guys on bikes and a barn and "needing to take a break".

It had a plot? It must have been quite a while. You should look into DVD's - it's more bang for your buck.

And you define "all" as...?

Everyone, of course. More gay porn would make the world a much nicer place.

Stop being such a whiny bastard. Boot camp is strict, but it will turn your friend into a physically fit and mentally strong individual. And if he wants to serve in the army, so what? He's fulfilling his patriotic duty. Get of your high horse, and stop treating service like it is hell.

Frankly, he is already mentaly strong. He can out-depate and out-pontificate me on Descartes and Aristotle. He told me he did not want to go to boot camp, as I said earlier.

As for the high horse, hah. Yours is higher still. Probably financed by the CIA too, those sleazebags.

Frankly, he is already mentaly strong. He can out-depate and out-pontificate me on Descartes and Aristotle. He told me he did not want to go to boot camp, as I said earlier.

As for the high horse, hah. Yours is higher still. Probably financed by the CIA too, those sleazebags.
So why should a bit of training him harm? If he is mentally strong, some yelling isn't going to intimidate him?

If he doesn't want to go...Well, life sucks. You can't always get what you want, sometimes you have to bear through these things. Think of it this way...at the very least, he'll be in the best shape of his life.

Ah yes, I'm a spy for the CIA out to corrupt the youth! ^_^ Fear me! Mwa! Ha!

Everyone, of course. More gay porn would make the world a much nicer place.
Personally...Less porn in general would make the world a much nicer place. But that's just the crazy asexual talking, no need to pay attention as you waste away your days in hedonism and orgies...Sigh...(Laments downfall of humanity...)

Personally...Less porn in general would make the world a much nicer place. But that's just the crazy asexual talking, no need to pay attention as you waste away your days in hedonism and orgies...Sigh...(Laments downfall of humanity...)

See, embracing gay porn would make your lament much more enjoyable.

So why should a bit of training him harm? If he is mentally strong, some yelling isn't going to intimidate him?

If he doesn't want to go...Well, life sucks. You can't always get what you want, sometimes you have to bear through these things. Think of it this way...at the very least, he'll be in the best shape of his life.

Ah yes, I'm a spy for the CIA out to corrupt the youth! ^_^ Fear me! Mwa! Ha!

I lost a friend to these little slices of hell on earth. A LITTLE training? A LITTLE yelling? Hah. That does not scratch the surface. He is bullied enough as it is, if he is put in a cage with 19 lions he stands a better change of surviving than if he is put in a room with 19 other 'recruits'.

And if he doesn't want to go, I will bust both my testacles doing everything in my power to ensure that he is not sent there.

As for the best shape of his life? I do not consider permanent emotional scarring to be 'the best shape', thank you very much.

As for the CIA, I happen to be Hezbollah. Try me.

Boot Camp is supposedly the same thing as Basic Training. Personally, I just consider boot camp a place where parents send their trouble teens because they do not know how to properly discipline a child.

Boot camp is good.
Polishing boots is good.
Working hard is good.
Learning to respond to commands without caring about them is good.
Learning to ignore the tone of command while executing it is good.
Learning to execute commands in the cleverest possible way as a reflex is good.
What's not to like about boot camp?
I survived it. Ha.

I lost a friend to these little slices of hell on earth. A LITTLE training? A LITTLE yelling? Hah. That does not scratch the surface. He is bullied enough as it is, if he is put in a cage with 19 lions he stands a better change of surviving than if he is put in a room with 19 other 'recruits'.

And if he doesn't want to go, I will bust both my testacles doing everything in my power to ensure that he is not sent there.

As for the best shape of his life? I do not consider permanent emotional scarring to be 'the best shape', thank you very much.

As for the CIA, I happen to be Hezbollah. Try me.

Hezbollah, what's your address?

Boot camp is good.
Polishing boots is good.
Working hard is good.
Learning to respond to commands without caring about them is good.
Learning to ignore the tone of command while executing it is good.
Learning to execute commands in the cleverest possible way as a reflex is good.
What's not to like about boot camp?
I survived it. Ha.

You have oviously been brainwashed. I suggest you regain your humanity ASAP.

Hezbollah, what's your address?

Like I will tell you...

Boot Camp is supposedly the same thing as Basic Training. Personally, I just consider boot camp a place where parents send their trouble teens because they do not know how to properly discipline a child.

He had a few problems in school earlier, and his father is in every strech of the imagination an asshole. That is what the military does to people...turn them into animals.

I lost a friend to these little slices of hell on earth. A LITTLE training? A LITTLE yelling? Hah. That does not scratch the surface. He is bullied enough as it is, if he is put in a cage with 19 lions he stands a better change of surviving than if he is put in a room with 19 other 'recruits'.

And if he doesn't want to go, I will bust both my testacles doing everything in my power to ensure that he is not sent there.

As for the best shape of his life? I do not consider permanent emotional scarring to be 'the best shape', thank you very much.

As for the CIA, I happen to be Hezbollah. Try me.
Little slices of hell on earth? You my friend, have obviously not seen the hell that can be unleashed on this earth. So what if they yell and train you? Suck it up. It's not like it lasts forever. Mind you, I sympathize with his predicament, but you make too much of a deal out of it.

And I was referring to physical status. Intense training has a lot to do with that. And if he's as mentally strong as you describe, can't he simply endure instead of being emotionally scarred? It's not like he's being sent to Darfur or anything.

He had a few problems in school earlier, and his father is in every strech of the imagination an asshole. That is what the military does to people...turn them into animals.
That's a lie! How dare you? Insult the men and women of the military who place their lives on the line to protect you and your freedom? Considering especially that the overwhelming majority of military vets lead successful family lives afterwards, I wouldn't consider them "animals."

Dude, that's totally unfair. Your allegations that his parents can sell him to the military as long as he is under 18 is pure bullshit and your statement that all the military does is turn people into animals is worse. Three of my great-grandfathers, both of my grandfathers, four of my uncles, and two of my cousins have served or are serving in the military.

It is not the life for everyone, but it teaches skills and values that can be applied to evrything else in life, like honor, courage, mental stability, the ability to function under pressure, the ability and knowledge to stay in shape, and the confidence to do nearly anything.

Your slander is offensive to millions of veterans and active warriors, both in the US Armed Forces and from other services that you include in your broad condemation of services you obviously have next to no understanding about. You should watch your mouth. The only people who ensured that you have the ability to shoot it off were people who served in the Armed Forces.

That's a lie! How dare you? Insult the men and women of the military who place their lives on the line to protect you and your freedom? Considering especially that the overwhelming majority of military vets lead successful family lives afterwards, I wouldn't consider them "animals."

If men are conditioned to become attack dogs, they will act as such. I stand by those words.

If men are conditioned to become attack dogs, they will act as such. I stand by those words.
Attack dogs? ATTACK DOGS?!? So the Minutemen were "attack dogs?" The Greatest Generation was a bunch of "attack dogs"? The liberators of Afghanistan were "attack dogs"?!?

Oh, and it's not generally good idea to retaliate ICly for an OOC dispute. Especially considering my nation is twice your size, has a better economy, and spends more on the military by far.

Well, of course you stand by them. That's because idiots often take long periods of time to realize when they're wrong. Enjoy your free speech, bought and paid for by "attack dogs". I sure hope no one in your family has ever served in a military, because you must really hate them.

Whenever I read things like that insulting the armed forces, I can feel brain cells dying. If you would actually take the time to talk to some people in the military, instead of whatever leftist propaganda you are spoon-fed, you'd learn completely different that the volunteers (there is no draft, so there is no one in against their will) are actually honorable, peaceful, intelligent, and active human beings. Leftists like to villify our service members, why I don't know.
The military does more than 'kill'. After the tsunami in the Indian Ocean, the US AF and Navy provided the largest airlift and sealift operations for supplies in the entire area. There are units still deployed, delivering food and other survival items to isolated villages. If you would take the time to open your mind a little, you'd discover there's more to the world than what you read on the internet.
These are people with families, with lives, human feelings. Saying they are animals who are trained to kill is very very immature.
Basic Military Training was the best six weeks of my life. It taught me dicipline, courage, honor, wellness, teamwork, technical skills, and many other skills I can apply to everyday life. If you can't stand the yelling... well, you've got issues. It's hard, but the only thing in life that's easy is to sit behind a keyboard and complain about things you don't really know about.
I think it's about time that you people try to open your minds (like you tell everyone else) and experiance the world a little more beyond your parent's basement.

- AFC Miller, USAF, Wright-Patt AFB

Umm, I believe I'm what you would apparently call a leftist. I don't vilify the Armed Forces. I think that large sweeping generalizations in either direction are utterly uncalled for. I know several other people who share my political beliefs and my position on the Armed Forces. Maybe you should look at some of your own biased beliefs as well.

Alrighty, I used the word lefist. But you don't really see many right-wingers bashing the military with misinformation, do you?

I see extremeists on both sides of the spectrum. I would prefer not to have this disolve into a debate between extremes. I think it is completely possible to believe in tenets from both sides. In fact, I don't even think any particular side should have "claims" to any one position.

The fact remains that the military and basic training in particular isn't this crazy conspiracy 'steal-your-kids' etc etc etc. I'd like to see where they got that idea from.

Whenever I read things like that insulting the armed forces, I can feel brain cells dying. If you would actually take the time to talk to some people in the military, instead of whatever leftist propaganda you are spoon-fed, you'd learn completely different that the volunteers (there is no draft, so there is no one in against their will) are actually honorable, peaceful, intelligent, and active human beings. Leftists like to villify our service members, why I don't know.
The military does more than 'kill'. After the tsunami in the Indian Ocean, the US AF and Navy provided the largest airlift and sealift operations for supplies in the entire area. There are units still deployed, delivering food and other survival items to isolated villages. If you would take the time to open your mind a little, you'd discover there's more to the world than what you read on the internet.
These are people with families, with lives, human feelings. Saying they are animals who are trained to kill is very very immature.
Basic Military Training was the best six weeks of my life. It taught me dicipline, courage, honor, wellness, teamwork, technical skills, and many other skills I can apply to everyday life. If you can't stand the yelling... well, you've got issues. It's hard, but the only thing in life that's easy is to sit behind a keyboard and complain about things you don't really know about.
I think it's about time that you people try to open your minds (like you tell everyone else) and experiance the world a little more beyond your parent's basement.

- AFC Miller, USAF, Wright-Patt AFB

I admit I should have held my tounge...and should have admitted it earlier before digging myself into a hole justifying it.

When one reads of such abuses and horrific acts that have taken place in Iraq, as well as allegations of sending prisoners overseas to be tortured and the like, one cannot help but to think those things.

And as of late, I have been very distraught about my friend probably being sentenced to some military academy or boot camp. It happened once, and I was powerless to stop it, despite letters recieved that said clearly 'this is hell on earth', or 'send arsenic'.

The two situations are very similar; the first case: his father suddenly turned from a jerk to someone decent [probably finding someone whithin price range to whip him into shape and crush what spirit he has left], and not 1 month passed before he was exiled. Now, the second case: his father is not yelling as much, and has acted a bit more laid back. His father attained the rank of lieutenant, and thinks highly of the military. Things do not change for a reason...

To all who have read this: Sorry. I will try to think before typing in the future. Perhaps those whose imaginations are vivid enough to imagine the pain and plight of others should not be allowed to read.

P.S. PM me for a formal appology if so required.

The fact remains that the military and basic training in particular isn't this crazy conspiracy 'steal-your-kids' etc etc etc. I'd like to see where they got that idea from.

Oh, I completely agree with you. I can't see where anyone could get an idea like that, it's nuts.

The fact remains that the military and basic training in particular isn't this crazy conspiracy 'steal-your-kids' etc etc etc. I'd like to see where they got that idea from.

In all due fairness, we got it from the draft.

I admit I should have held my tounge...and should have admitted it earlier before digging myself into a hole justifying it.

When one reads of such abuses and horrific acts that have taken place in Iraq, as well as allegations of sending prisoners overseas to be tortured and the like, one cannot help but to think those things.
When all one does it recieve information from one source about such things, then one is to blame. But when one activly seeks out the truth from multiple sources and cross-references, then the truth is found. I've talked with friends who are in the Marines over in Afganistan and Iraq, and it's not half as bad as the media makes it out to be
But I agree the torturing of prisoners wasn't right. No POW should be tortured. But, consider this: Did those same prisoners give mercy to people like Daniel Pear, the Jewish journalist who was kidnapped, tortured, and beheaded on camera? Did they show the same mercy to the hundreds of non-combatants they've done similiar things to? While I think that torture isn't right, I don't have much simpathy toward them.

And as of late, I have been very distraught about my friend probably being sentenced to some military academy or boot camp. It happened once, and I was powerless to stop it, despite letters recieved that said clearly 'this is hell on earth', or 'send arsenic'.
You can't get 'sentenced' to the military or BMT. You have to be 18, passed all the stringent requirements, plus you sign the binding contract when you arrive at BMT. Then, and only then are you offically in the military.
I myself wouldn't have minded being 'sentenced' to a military academy. Maybe I could've gotten a commision and better pay :D

The two situations are very similar; the first case: his father suddenly turned from a jerk to someone decent [probably finding someone whithin price range to whip him into shape and crush what spirit he has left], and not 1 month passed before he was exiled. Now, the second case: his father is not yelling as much, and has acted a bit more laid back. His father attained the rank of lieutenant, and thinks highly of the military. Things do not change for a reason...
Not sure exactly what that was about, I'm basicly fed up with everyone downplaying the military, saying it's evil, drafting kids who don't really want to go, etc, etc. You can not be forced into the military against your will. That is unlawful.

To all who have read this: Sorry. I will try to think before typing in the future. Perhaps those whose imaginations are vivid enough to imagine the pain and plight of others should not be allowed to read.

P.S. PM me for a formal appology if so required.
Again, I wasn't directed at you specificly, just those who bash the military without knowing what it's really like.

Was this place your friend went to military or some rehabilitation facility?

In all due fairness, we got it from the draft.
Considering there is no draft since a few decades ago... The US military is an all-volunteer force. Otherwise, it'd be a lot larger than it is, but of lower quality. Thank God they did away with the draft.

Thank God they did away with the draft.
Amen to that. Both for those who serve and those who don't.

Was this place your friend went to military or some rehabilitation facility?

It was several years ago; I remember it was in South Dakora or some place, but what I remember most is what he was like when he returend. It was like seeing a baloon deflate...sometimes he would cry, sometimes he would simply yell in his room, yet be sure not to do so outside of it. Before, he was a bit rambunctious and hard-headed, but I did not know what triggered him to be consigned to such a fate.

But I am serious...I said said things I shoud not have said; normally I would not have said them, but still, the damage is done. What did I do to be such a moron...

There's not military training facility out there, I know that. That right there doesn't sound good at all.

I agree. Sounds more like some crackpot "deprogramming" type thing.

In a society as barbaric as this one, I am not surprised to have talked to many who have incurred the wrath of thier own parents or of the judiciary and be sentenced to a fate worse than death.

I am very concerned that a friend may be 'talked' into going to one, and I need all the help I can get

Post the horror stories here, or AIM me at kisama314159 if you have any advice on how to get him out of it should it happen.

If I understand you correctly, you're talking about this kind of boot camp: http://www.bootcampsforteens.com/ and not actual military service. If so, you may want to clarify that.

If that's what you're talking about, I have to say that when the idea first came out it was prety good and seems to have worked effectively in straightening out screwed up kids. However, since they've become the flavor of the month, it seems to me that lots of people have decided they are a quick fix. I also think they've also beeen copy-catted by people who aren't doing it with a complete understanding of everything that went into the original ones.
The NMHA seems to agree:
http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm

There's not military training facility out there, I know that. That right there doesn't sound good at all.

As I said, it was a few years ago; I think the term was boot camp. Daistallia 2104's post I think explains it. But now is irrelevant. What happened, happened...the fog of past events impede my ability to see clearly.

But seriously, one of these days I will probably get killed if my tounge continues to be this loose. All I can say is that I hope is not painful.

Oh....so it's a teeen problem.....

Muahahahahaha. The solution is not boot camp. The solution is love and understanding. Wouldn't the world be a great place if we used these two qualities to their max potential?

The purpose of boot camp is to "tear down" your psyche and rebuilt it in a disciplined manner. I can't speak for the programs elsewhere, but the Virginia JDOC Boot Camp program is run by former marine drill instructors. The program is only intended for juveniles which are left with some hope of self-correction through discipline. The purpose of the program is to supply discipline to the persons life and psyche, so that they can become functional adults. It is very similar to the past cases where Judges would require juveniles to enter the armed forces, or face extended prison sentences in the future.

The Boot Camp program is usefull. If the juveniles take the instruction, they will be far better off than the life, and their own future, had they not been remanded into the program.

About the onlt way you can consider it "dehumanizing", is if you consider the idea of discipline, instilled responsibility, and self-control "inhuman". Which, judging from many people these days, I find it of no surprise, they do in fact find such "dehumanizing".

The same applied to the adult version as such found in military instruction.

I myself served in the United States Navy from 1991 to 1997. Attended Basic Military Training (Boot Camp) at NTC Orlando, FL. Basic Electricity and Electronics at NTC Orlando, Basic Enlisted Submarine School, FireControl Technician Class 'A' school, Microminerature Soldering and Circuit Board Repair school, FireControl Technician - AN/BSY-1 Maintenance and Repair Class 'C' School, Advanced Submarine Warfare and Tactics Class 'C' School, and DamageControl and Firefighting school in Groton, CT... Then served aboard the USS HAmpton, SSN-767, a flight 4 Los Angeles Class, FastAttack submarine out of NAVSTA Norfolk, VA. from 1993-1997... Boot camps purpose is to take civilians, tear down their psyche, and rebuilt them as functional soldiers. While in the military you're not a person, your part of a unit, the purpose of the program is to create people who think as units (not as individuals)... While your in the military, every action you take effects other members of your unit... You never think what's best for yourself, or even another member of your unit... but of the unit as a whole. If you make a mistake, it can cost others their lives... And that is what boot-camp creates... You're not allowed to error... If you error, everyone pays for it. As a section leader (RPO2) while in my Battalion at Orlando, when one person fucked-up, we all were punished... If someone in my section screwed up, I would receive the same punishment as the offender. Why? Because it ingrains in us the cost of error. All the acts are for "psychological" reasons, FOR A PURPOSE.

Why is all this necessary? Because, in the fleet, I could be called to take action to kill another or others... I could be called to take action to sacrifice myself, to save hundreds of others... Why is all the instruction necessary to achieve this? Because, when I'm in a submarine, in a flooding compartment exercizing damage control; my unit can't afford me to experience fear... I must carry out my job, even in certain death of myself, for the protection and safety of others.... When I am manning the attack center during battle, the unit can't afford me to freeze in fear before incomming weapons, I have to take and recommend all the acts necessary to continue our mission; even in the face of death.

It's a far more demanding life than most civilians can fathom. Boot Camp creates the people who are entering into this life.

The purpose of boot camp is to "tear down" your psyche and rebuilt it in a disciplined manner. I can't speak for the programs elsewhere, but the Virginia JDOC Boot Camp program is run by former marine drill instructors. The program is only intended for juveniles which are left with some hope of self-correction through discipline. The purpose of the program is to supply discipline to the persons life and psyche, so that they can become functional adults. It is very similar to the past cases where Judges would require juveniles to enter the armed forces, or face extended prison sentences in the future.

The Boot Camp program is usefull. If the juveniles take the instruction, they will be far better off than the life, and their own future, had they not been remanded into the program.

About the onlt way you can consider it "dehumanizing", is if you consider the idea of discipline, instilled responsibility, and self-control "inhuman". Which, judging from many people these days, I find it of no surprise, they do in fact find such "dehumanizing".

What happens if you give up a live after they've broken you down? Are you then fucked up forever?

Full Metal Jacket anyone?

What happens if you give up a live after they've broken you down? Are you then fucked up forever?

Full Metal Jacket anyone?

According the the njcrs report, 68% to 87% of juveniles remanded into the program showed improvement in academics, with recidivism rates of approximately 72% (this is in contrast to a 93% recidivism rate in other forms of correctional detention/rehabilitation); so while at no means "perfect" to stop repetitious crime, it is more effective then other forms of rehabilitation and correction for juvenile offenders, and repeat offenders.

The purpose of the program is to instill ideas of self-discipline and team-work amongst people entering the program. Like all other forms of rehabilitation, it requires acts on part of the person in the program. That is, some innate desire to be rehabilitated, and to take instruction, in the first place. No rehabilitative program can be 100% effective. But I would argue that the Juvenile Boot Camp programs found in many states.

Those entering the program are less likely than others of repeating their crimes, or commiting new offenses resulting in further remand into custody. Typically the programs are only open to juveniles with 1 or 2 offenses. After program failure, they are generall remanded into custody for the duration of their juvenile status. Further repetition leads to trial under Adult Corrections.

The program works. At least as good as it can, and shows greater effectiveness then other forms of juvenile correction/detention. It is by no means a "bad program".

Typically the programs are short (between 6 and 9 months), and are combined with subsequent release programs, to ensure certain levels of supervision/probation afterwards by JDOC. And are academic as well as physical in their training.

the criminal boot would be good for someone who cant get their crap together-maybe it will scare the guy into becomming a man.
Military Bootcamp is where the real deal is. If this is about him not wanting to serve his country, then screw the little pissant. Bootcamp molds young boys into strong men.

I wash my hands of this topic. Glorify it all you want; I can no longer bear to read this pile of dertritus.