NationStates Jolt Archive

This is sort of a take of another poll I saw floating around this forum. Do you think that marijuana is a gateway drug (meaning that it's use will lead to further, more dangerous drug experimentation)? If so, please state why. If not, please state why. Also, I am interested in anyone's opinion on this, whether you have tried marijuana or not.

The marijuana-as-gateway argument relies heavily on flawed reasoning.

The story goes like this: most hard drug users began by taking marijuana, therefore marijuana is a gateway to hard drug use.

Eh, no.

The vast and overwhelming proportion of people who have taken marijuana have never used hard drugs - and never will.

Marijuana is a gateway drug primarily because it's illegal. In order to buy marijuana people must either venture into neighborhoods where drug sales are the main source of employment and run a gauntlet of people offering them crack, cocaine, heroin, and other illegal drugs, or they must purchase their weed from drug dealers who make little money from weed and try to boost their profits with ecstacy, cocaine, methamphetamine, or other drugs.

Either way they're exposed to constant offers to buy more dangerous and addictive drugs in their pursuit of the benign weed.

yes and no. it doesn't directly lead to other drugs (apart from having to buy it from illegal dealers who usually try to get you to buy other drugs - after you get to know them - on wich they make more profit), but marijuana is usually the first drug people try. when they realise that 'using drugs' doesn't instantly make you a fuck-up, destroy your life and turn you into a gibbering wreck and addict, you're kinda tempted to try others... "this one wasn't as bad as people said, i wonder what others will be like..."

if the criminal element of dealers were removed it would stop this effect in its tracks - a la what has happened in Holland; by allowing cannabis to be sold in licenced coffeeshops the link to harder drugs and crime has been totally severed. if you can get weed down the shop but would have to go find an illegal dealer for harder drugs, this curiosity would not have an opportunity to come to fruition. also, currently people who sell weed aren't seen as particularly criminal, so its suprisingly easy to get drawn into what is, ultimatley, a criminal world - and the hard drugs...

For some it is, for others it isn't. I don't think you can generalize like that.

Marijuana is a gateway drug primarily because it's illegal. In order to buy marijuana people must either venture into neighborhoods where drug sales are the main source of employment and run a gauntlet of people offering them crack, cocaine, heroin, and other illegal drugs, or they must purchase their weed from drug dealers who make little money from weed and try to boost their profits with ecstacy, cocaine, methamphetamine, or other drugs.

Either way they're exposed to constant offers to buy more dangerous and addictive drugs in their pursuit of the benign weed.

Leave my neighbourhood alone!

Leave my neighbourhood alone!
If you ain't never been to the ghetto don't ever come to the ghetto. 'Cause you don't belong in the ghetto. Just stay the fuck out the ghetto. -Naughty by Nature, Ghetto Bastard

No.

One: To use marijuana in the first place, if it is illegal, you have to already be in contact with dealers/suppliers/users of illegal substances. Thus how can its use put you in contact with such. There is a causal failing in this reasoning.

Two: It is widely known that there are different levels of addiction risk attached to different narcotics. It is doubtful that marijuana is addictive, but it is certain that crack cocaine is. Those people who wish to experiment, but not put themselves at too much risk are likely to try marijuana and never even consider anything more addictive. Those people who are likely to try something more addictive are likely to do so regardless of marijuana use.

yes and no. it doesn't directly lead to other drugs (apart from having to buy it from illegal dealers who usually try to get you to buy other drugs - after you get to know them - on wich they make more profit), but marijuana is usually the first drug people try. when they realise that 'using drugs' doesn't instantly make you a fuck-up, destroy your life and turn you into a gibbering wreck and addict, you're kinda tempted to try others... "this one wasn't as bad as people said, i wonder what others will be like..."

if the criminal element of dealers were removed it would stop this effect in its tracks - a la what has happened in Holland; by allowing cannabis to be sold in licenced coffeeshops the link to harder drugs and crime has been totally severed. if you can get weed down the shop but would have to go find an illegal dealer for harder drugs, this curiosity would not have an opportunity to come to fruition. also, currently people who sell weed aren't seen as particularly criminal, so its suprisingly easy to get drawn into what is, ultimatley, a criminal world - and the hard drugs...


*claps**
excellent - couldn't have said it better myself :p

Yes, marajuana is a gateway drug to hard drugs. But not as much of a gateway drug as alcohol. Many drug addicts start out as alcoholics. Marajuana is not addictive.

Yes, marajuana is a gateway drug to hard drugs. But not as much of a gateway drug as alcohol. Many drug addicts start out as alcoholics. Marajuana is not addictive.
Dude, don't badmouth alcohol. It's not a drug. It's a way of life.

If you ain't never been to the ghetto don't ever come to the ghetto. 'Cause you don't belong in the ghetto. Just stay the fuck out the ghetto. -Naughty by Nature, Ghetto Bastard


I prefer the Elvis version:

As the snow flies
On a cold and gray chicago mornin’
A poor little baby child is born
In the ghetto
And his mama cries
’cause if there’s one thing that she don’t need
It’s another hungry mouth to feed
In the ghetto

People, don’t you understand
The child needs a helping hand
Or he’ll grow to be an angry young man some day
Take a look at you and me,
Are we too blind to see,
Do we simply turn our heads
And look the other way

Well the world turns
And a hungry little boy with a runny nose
Plays in the street as the cold wind blows
In the ghetto

And his hunger burns
So he starts to roam the streets at night
And he learns how to steal
And he learns how to fight
In the ghetto

Then one night in desperation
A young man breaks away
He buys a gun, steals a car,
Tries to run, but he don’t get far
And his mama cries

As a crowd gathers ’round an angry young man
Face down on the street with a gun in his hand
In the ghetto

As her young man dies,
On a cold and gray chicago mornin’,
Another little baby child is born
In the ghetto

*claps**
excellent - couldn't have said it better myself :p
*dances* :)

Marajuana is not addictive.

Many well qualified, non partisan experts would disagree

Dude, don't badmouth alcohol. It's not a drug. It's a way of life.

And marijuana isn't? ;)

Many well qualified, non partisan experts would disagree

and many well qualified, non partisan experts would agree. So that proves nothing.

I blame peer pressure, and escapism for the use of harder drugs.

I tried harder drugs because mates were doinging it. I tried cannabis because mates were doing it. Ditto alcohol.

However I agree that the illegality of cannabis does cause many people to mix with criminals who want to push as much stuff on the consumer as possible (I've been offered a free gram of coke on at least 3 occasions by cannabis dealers... personally will never touch the stuff so long as it funds war in columbia).

I don't understand what properties of marijuana encourage people to use other drugs.

I have been a habitual marijuana user for two years, and have only used anything harder, 4 or 5 times in that period and have no desire to use them again.

Many well qualified, non partisan experts would disagree
I've tried alot of drugs. Cocaine makes you want to buy another bag as soon as you run out. It's addicitve. I've never done heroin for more than two days straight, but I have a former friend who did get hooked. It's addictive. Marijuanna? No. I've never felt the "need" to smoke. I've quit using it for weeks, months, even years at a time. Now I smoke it on rare occasions. I don't do it because I'll get sick without it. I don't do it because I feel jumpy and uncomfortable without it. I usually smoke because I'm among friends that like it and it's a social thing. It's not addictive.

What is no.

I have smoked marijuana before and I don't plan on moving up to any other "hardcore" drugs. How can it be a gateway drug? The only thing it leads me to is a trip to the nearest 7-11. Plus, the people calling it a gateway drug probably have never tried it before. Also, chances are they have never even been remotely near it.
If anything is a gateway of any sorts, it's breakfast. Why breakfast? Because breakfast leads to eating other meals.

So is tabacco a gateway drug? Or are other drugs gateways to tabacco? That nicotine is dangerous stuff.

If Marijuana is a gateway drug then so is booze because most people who smoke weed started off on drink. Basically marijuana leads onto whatever the individual wants it to, just as smoking fags and drinking Diamond White can. For most people drugs are a phase and if somebody ends up on hard drugs it's because they have a disposition to such. They are minority but this is NOT a case for legalising the waccy baccy.
I guess there is a peak of vunerability when one may be chasing the highs but to say Marijiuana is repsonsible for the taking of harder drugs is a bit like saying that if you drive from London to Bristol on the M5 then it's only a matter of time before you get back in the car and drive on down to Plymouth. You may well do but it's not a given.

The only reason it can ever be considered a gateway drug is due to thw fact that it in many cases it is sold by people who sell other drugs as well. This is only in some instances too. I think if we legalized the stuff & sold it as a regulated substance like alcohol & cigatettes we wouldn't have that problem. Their are many benefits to this besides getting rid of the gateway drug stigma. Such as a more sound & humane treatment for things like Brain Tumors & Anorexia.
Take the drug out of the hands of the criminals & it won't be used to get people hooked on other drugs. Plain & simple.

No more than alcohol. I tried speed once, and I was drunk. If I were high, I probably wouldn't have touched the shit (actually, it's really overrated. If you're thinking about it, don't bother.).

I still smoke marijuana occasionally (last time was over two months ago...), but I probably won't touch anything else.

If anything is a gateway of any sorts, it's breakfast. Why breakfast? Because breakfast leads to eating other meals.

You are on to something there. I find that when I eat breakfast, I end up eating more caloric meals later that day!

You are on to something there. I find that when I eat breakfast, I end up eating more caloric meals later that day!
Yeah soon we will all be like the hobbits. Have to havew 2nd breakfast & elevenzies too.
Stop the madness make food consumption illegal!

Yeah soon we will all be like the hobbits. Have to havew 2nd breakfast & elevenzies too.
Stop the madness make food consumption illegal!

Especially omelettes. :mad:

I think there is a greater psychological addiction than physical, but I've known a good number of people who do little or nothing with their lives because they think smoking it up is an "everyday" thing. Damn shame.

Marijuana is indeed a gateway drug. It can lead to the hard stuff, like potato chips and fizzy beverages. Then it makes you pass out giggling.

Dude, don't badmouth alcohol. It's not a drug. It's a way of life.
Alcohol is a drug, but intense marketing from various alcohol companies (especially beer companies) have transformed it into a way of life.

Marijuana is indeed a gateway drug. It can lead to the hard stuff, like potato chips and fizzy beverages. Then it makes you pass out giggling.
cannabis is evil i tell you! :mad:

Birth is a gateway drug. 100% of all hard drug users started out by being born.

Marijuana is indeed a gateway drug. It can lead to the hard stuff, like potato chips and fizzy beverages. Then it makes you pass out giggling.

Hahahaha!

Oh, don't forget the dreaded dry mouth syndrome.

Marijuana is a gateway drug insofar as it is a rung on the ladder that eventually leads to harder drugs. However, the same logic would apply to cigarettes, alcohol, sneaking out late at night, and skipping school. For the vast majority of marijuana users, smoking grass is the end of the line. Most will never go on to harder drugs. But, I would submit that if you were to conduct a survey of those addicted to "hard" drugs, you would find that a striking majority snuck drinks out of their parents liquor cabinets, skipped school, tried cigarettes, and tried pot before they went on to their eventual drug of choice. The simple fact that hard drug users likely used marijuana before anything else does not establish a causal link. Gateway drug was a term coined by those who have little other ground on which to support the continued persecution of marijuana users. The criminalization of marijuana use in this country is absurd. Thousands (maybe?) die a day from cigarette use. Alcohol is the ONLY drug where severe addicts can suffer heart failure and fatal convulsions during withdrawal (yes, this is worse than those recovering from heroin and crack use). In addition, some of the most powerfully addictive drugs on the planet are regularly perscribed in this country (benzodiazepenes - xanax, valium, etc. and other families of pain killers like oxycotton). The real kicker is that marijuana is a schedule 1 drug! The deffinition of schedule 1 (and don't quote me, I'm somewhat fuzzy on this) is that it has a high potential for abuse and addiction, and that it has no medicinal value. This is from the same branch of government that recognizes a handfull of FEDERAL marijuana patients. These are people that are so violently ill that marijuana is the only drug that allows them to function. I won't begin to argue the medicinal benefits of marijuana, but please note that cocaine is a schedule 2 drug (that's lower on the ladder). Marijuana simply does not cause chemical dependency. To study the history of the illegality of marijuana in this country is to take a look at a history of racial oppression. Opponents of its use have to rely on arguments such as "gateway drug" because nothing else holds water. I don't advocate the use of marijuana (it certainly has its negative side effects such as lethargy and reversable short term memory loss), and I'm not sure that I think it should be sold at convenience stores, but seriously, wake up. Marijuana does not lead to harder drugs anymore than adolescent rebellion does, and the fact that an ex-con could potentially recieve a tremendous prison sentence (three strikes) for posession of a single flake of pot is absurd.

sure,it can be a gateway drug to weak minded people,just as sex can be a gateway to rape.


get real...

A good deal of people will say that marijuana is not a gateway drug. The thing is, though, in my experience it is.

I smoke pot. I would know - I've been deep in the stoner subculture for a fairly long while now. From my experience, I know that pot leads to use of harder drugs. Good friends of mine, who started off just smoking weed every once in a while, eventually turned to acid and shrooms. One girl I know (and practically fell in love with) even went so far as to try cocaine.

This is not always, though. Most of the time it does not lead to harder drug use, but it many cases it does. I've never done anything stronger than pot - I don't even drink - and I don't intend to. But it some cases, marijuana is a gateway drug.

A good deal of people will say that marijuana is not a gateway drug. The thing is, though, in my experience it is.

I smoke pot. I would know - I've been deep in the stoner subculture for a fairly long while now. From my experience, I know that pot leads to use of harder drugs. Good friends of mine, who started off just smoking weed every once in a while, eventually turned to acid and shrooms. One girl I know (and practically fell in love with) even went so far as to try cocaine.

This is not always, though. Most of the time it does not lead to harder drug use, but it many cases it does. I've never done anything stronger than pot - I don't even drink - and I don't intend to. But it some cases, marijuana is a gateway drug.

Pot leads to use of harder drugs? Funny, I thought personal responsibility (or lack thereof) is what leads to one making decisions. Calling it a "gateway drug" is just yet another extension of the cult of victimhood, only it paints users as helpless idiots who are just sucked into doing things they, apparently, had no desire to do. I think that's total bullshit invented by the anti-drug crowd to further dependence on external authority. I may as well say that being Iraqi is a 'gateway' to using chemical weapons and oppressing a nation, since 'some' (the Husseins) Iraqis did in fact do just that. But doing so would take away the fact that everyone, from dictators to drug users, has choice and, more importantly, the responsibility for their own actions.

In my experience, I personally drank then did Special K, then Ecstasy, then marijuana, acid, coke, and etc... I think from my experience and my friends that it doesn't matter what order you decide to do illegal drugs in, it is the decision to do them and which ones. Also it can depend on what you are offered. I have a lot of stoner friends that don't even drink, they just smoke. So it depends. But no it's not a gateway drug, the fact is you decide what you will try and what you won't no matter what. I mean if you wanna do drugs you're gonna hang around people that'll do them with you. And yes in my experience people who call marijuana a gateway drug and link it to other criminal activity usually have no direct personal experience. It's just like 'childhood psychological experts' writing books about parenting when they have no children of their own.

A good deal of people will say that marijuana is not a gateway drug. The thing is, though, in my experience it is.

I smoke pot. I would know - I've been deep in the stoner subculture for a fairly long while now. From my experience, I know that pot leads to use of harder drugs. Good friends of mine, who started off just smoking weed every once in a while, eventually turned to acid and shrooms. One girl I know (and practically fell in love with) even went so far as to try cocaine.

This is not always, though. Most of the time it does not lead to harder drug use, but it many cases it does. I've never done anything stronger than pot - I don't even drink - and I don't intend to. But it some cases, marijuana is a gateway drug.

Would your friends have gone on to try these other drugs had they not used marijuana? The problem is the causal relationship that you are implying between marijuana use and harder drug use. That relationship does not exist. I, like you was fairly heavily involved in the drug sub culture, and also had friends who did move on to heroin, cocaine, opium and crack. However they were people who would have used these harder drugs regardless. Very heavily directed toward the moment, with little or no concern, or hope for the future. (Northen UK during the 1980s, uneducated kids, with unemployed families and no work available in the area).

That some users migrate on to other drugs does not make mj a gateway drug. The same apparent causal relationship could be established for unemployment, or for not having a university degree, or even for having one. There is no causal relationship there. If there were, then you, and I, and almost everyone else who has posted here would be an out and out junkie.

Pot leads to use of harder drugs? Funny, I thought personal responsibility (or lack thereof) is what leads to one making decisions. Calling it a "gateway drug" is just yet another extension of the cult of victimhood, only it paints users as helpless idiots who are just sucked into doing things they, apparently, had no desire to do. I think that's total bullshit invented by the anti-drug crowd to further dependence on external authority. I may as well say that being Iraqi is a 'gateway' to using chemical weapons and oppressing a nation, since 'some' (the Husseins) Iraqis did in fact do just that. But doing so would take away the fact that everyone, from dictators to drug users, has choice and, more importantly, the responsibility for their own actions.
Let me ask you, do you have personal experience with this? Do you know people who have done this? The users, however much I may love them, are helpless idiots. Marijuana use is just a step on the way to harder drugs - and it is in this sense that it is a gateway drug. Nobody I have met who's done harder drugs has done them without having done pot first.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but did you call me part of the anti-drug crowd? Let me quote myself...
I smoke pot. I would know - I've been deep in the stoner subculture for a fairly long while now.
So there. I'm not anti-drug, I'm just telling the truth. Stop speaking in your sense of dignified outrage and look at reality. Don't bark at me for telling my personal experience.

During prohibition using alcohol often led to use of harder drugs, simply because drinking alcohol was illegal and illicit activities are hard to stop once started. Same with Marajuana. Certain people gravitate towards it simply on the basis of its illegality. Such people would also be attracted to ecstacy or acid.

IMO I think Marajuana is much less damaging than nicotine or alcohol simply on the basis of health. You don't get throat cancer or liver failure from taking a hit from a bong. Might get a bit paranoid for a while but paranoia is not a chronic or a fatal condition. Liver failure and lung cancer are.

That said, weed's immediate effects are harder to predict than those of alcohol and nicotine, which is probably why it's not trusted by authorities. That's a shame though, because stoned people are much more pleasant to be around than drunk people.

Would your friends have gone on to try these other drugs had they not used marijuana? The problem is the causal relationship that you are implying between marijuana use and harder drug use. That relationship does not exist. I, like you was fairly heavily involved in the drug sub culture, and also had friends who did move on to heroin, cocaine, opium and crack. However they were people who would have used these harder drugs regardless. Very heavily directed toward the moment, with little or no concern, or hope for the future. (Northen UK during the 1980s, uneducated kids, with unemployed families and no work available in the area).

That some users migrate on to other drugs does not make mj a gateway drug. The same apparent causal relationship could be established for unemployment, or for not having a university degree, or even for having one. There is no causal relationship there. If there were, then you, and I, and almost everyone else who has posted here would be an out and out junkie.
I believe that if they had not done marijuana, they would not have done harder drugs. Chronologically, pot always came first, in every instance I've seen. In my experience, it is a casual relationship - but this is it. Pot use does not necessarily lead to harder drug use, but harder drug use often requires pot use. I don't think I can phrase it differently.

The people I know who've done this aren't exactly prime candidates for drug use, and I feel that if they had never done pot they would never have gotten into the harder drugs. These are upper-middle class kids, from good families with well-paying jobs. Pot functioned as their gateway - but it is far from universal.

Let me ask you, do you have personal experience with this? Do you know people who have done this? The users, however much I may love them, are helpless idiots. Marijuana use is just a step on the way to harder drugs - and it is in this sense that it is a gateway drug. Nobody I have met who's done harder drugs has done them without having done pot first.

Yeah, and no one I've met whose done harder drugs has done them without being born first. Let's just outlaw birth, birth is clearly the cause!

Users are helpless idiots? Wow. Got any statistics on that, or are you just describing people you know and making up generalizations? I bet you tell people you know that they're helpless and idiotic too. Don't you? Do they happen to agree? Does it not matter to you, since you've already completely dismissed their humanity?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but did you call me part of the anti-drug crowd? Let me quote myself...

So there. I'm not anti-drug, I'm just telling the truth. Stop speaking in your sense of dignified outrage and look at reality. Don't bark at me for telling my personal experience.

If you were telling personal experience it wouldn't be a problem. But you're sitting there telling what amounts to outright lies when you say "pot is a gateway drug." You are anti-drug because you are a pawn of anyone who wants to criminalize drugs, repress the freedom of choice, and cast 'users' (and everyone else by extension) as mere automatons with no capacity for self responsibility. You're as bad as Joe the reborn Christian who thinks all atheists are as deluded and stupid as, of course, he once was. And incidentally totally lacking in free will.

In my experience, I personally drank then did Special K, then Ecstasy, then marijuana, acid, coke, and etc... I think from my experience and my friends that it doesn't matter what order you decide to do illegal drugs in, it is the decision to do them and which ones. Also it can depend on what you are offered. I have a lot of stoner friends that don't even drink, they just smoke. So it depends. But no it's not a gateway drug, the fact is you decide what you will try and what you won't no matter what. I mean if you wanna do drugs you're gonna hang around people that'll do them with you. And yes in my experience people who call marijuana a gateway drug and link it to other criminal activity usually have no direct personal experience. It's just like 'childhood psychological experts' writing books about parenting when they have no children of their own.
I guess my presence here is just destroying all those assumptions. :P I don't drink, but I toke. And I call marijuana a gateway drug (at least in some circumstances) and I smoke it on a regular basis.

Yeah, and no one I've met whose done harder drugs has done them without being born first. Let's just outlaw birth, birth is clearly the cause!

Users are helpless idiots? Wow. Got any statistics on that, or are you just describing people you know and making up generalizations? I bet you tell people you know that they're helpless and idiotic too. Don't you? Do they happen to agree? Does it not matter to you, since you've already completely dismissed their humanity?

If you were telling personal experience it wouldn't be a problem. But you're sitting there telling what amounts to outright lies when you say "pot is a gateway drug." You are anti-drug because you are a pawn of anyone who wants to criminalize drugs, repress the freedom of choice, and cast 'users' (and everyone else by extension) as mere automatons with no capacity for self responsibility. You're as bad as Joe the reborn Christian who thinks all atheists are as deluded and stupid as, of course, he once was. And incidentally totally lacking in free will.
It's a matter of opinion. By denying any debate on the issue, you're as bad as the "Joe the reborn Christian" you just described.

I'm just telling my personal experience, and if you want to be a complete dick and start a flamewar over it, that's your choice. All you can respond with is vitriol and sarcasm - why don't you provide those statistics yourself, hmm?

But no matter - I'm getting rid of all posts by you, so I never have to read that kind of drivel ever again. Try debating instead of flaming.

EDIT: In case you didn't know, that means you're on my iggy list. So don't bother responding.

Let me ask you, do you have personal experience with this? Do you know people who have done this? The users, however much I may love them, are helpless idiots. Marijuana use is just a step on the way to harder drugs - and it is in this sense that it is a gateway drug. Nobody I have met who's done harder drugs has done them without having done pot first.

So just because you have not met other people means they don't exist? I mean I just said I did harder drugs before using marijuana. The point is yes people can decide to do some things and not others and the order is irrelevant. Just because your particular circle happened that way doesn't mean everyone's does. Saying marijuana is a gateway drug is over-generalizing. Thats all we're all trying to say, it's a matter of choice. I know a lot of oxy users that moved on to heroin, but it doesn't mean they all will or that all heroin users started by taking oxy's.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but did you call me part of the anti-drug crowd? Let me quote myself...

So there. I'm not anti-drug, I'm just telling the truth. Stop speaking in your sense of dignified outrage and look at reality. Don't bark at me for telling my personal experience.

I'm not trying to insult you, just pointing out that like yours everyone has personal experience, and it can and will differ. Thats way generalizing is unfair.

So just because you have not met other people means they don't exist? I mean I just said I did harder drugs before using marijuana. The point is yes people can decide to do some things and not others and the order is irrelevant. Just because your particular circle happened that way doesn't mean everyone's does. Saying marijuana is a gateway drug is over-generalizing. Thats all we're all trying to say, it's a matter of choice. I know a lot of oxy users that moved on to heroin, but it doesn't mean they all will or that all heroin users started by taking oxy's.

I'm not trying to insult you, just pointing out that like yours everyone has personal experience, and it can and will differ. Thats way generalizing is unfair.
Oh don't worry, that wasn't directed at you ;) I'm aware that others have different experiences, but I'm just telling what I've seen to be my experiences. I realise you have different experiences - they're just the exception to the rule by what I've seen. Keep in mind that I'm not just part of one circle of people, but that I know about 1/3 the people in my high school decently well, so it's not as if this is a limited sample size.

It's a matter of opinion. By denying any debate on the issue, you're as bad as the "Joe the reborn Christian" you just described.

I'm just telling my personal experience, and if you want to be a complete dick and start a flamewar over it, that's your choice. All you can respond with is vitriol and sarcasm - why don't you provide those statistics yourself, hmm?

But no matter - I'm getting rid of all posts by you, so I never have to read that kind of drivel ever again. Try debating instead of flaming.

EDIT: In case you didn't know, that means you're on my iggy list. So don't bother responding.

Actually, I'll bother responding for people who DON'T want to bury their heads in the sand.

Apparently "debating" to this guy means dismissing anyone who uses any drug as being a "helpless idiot." (That includes him, by the way, apparently he forgot he listed himself in the 'user' crowd.)

Oh, as for "denying debate," I wonder what "iggy"ing people explicitly to prevent yourself from hearing the opposition is, hmm?

What's with people today? You all want a piece of SB's ass today, looks like. You're going to have to try harder than this PMS bullshit though, thats for damn sure.

Hmm
Ok I wanna just get people's opinion than. Let's play a game called 'Let's pretend'....Let's pretend marijuana does not exist. <period: No way, no how> Would people still use hard drugs?
I believe the answer is yes. Because it is the reason behind deciding to do any drugs that will influence you either way. If you do marijuana just to try it is different than the young and stupid like myself who do things because I didn't see a reason not to.
But anyway I'm curious, to see what other people think...

I believe that if they had not done marijuana, they would not have done harder drugs. Chronologically, pot always came first, in every instance I've seen. In my experience, it is a casual relationship - but this is it. Pot use does not necessarily lead to harder drug use, but harder drug use often requires pot use. I don't think I can phrase it differently.

The people I know who've done this aren't exactly prime candidates for drug use, and I feel that if they had never done pot they would never have gotten into the harder drugs. These are upper-middle class kids, from good families with well-paying jobs. Pot functioned as their gateway - but it is far from universal.

There are several things I disagree with here.

It may be in your experience that pot always came first, but this is not generalisable. I consider that pot use and hard drug use may both be symptoms of the same cause. This cause being an attitude taken by the user. Pot does not create the attitude pro hard drug use. If the attitude is there, independent of the pot, then the hard drug use will follow anyway, again independent of the pot. If the attitude is not there, then the hard drug use will not follw, regardless of any pot use or not.

The second point is that in general cocaine users tend to be rich uppewr middle class kids with too much money, too little time and too little idea of the consequences of their actions. I know this is generalising, but it is statistically valid. I would guess that the vast majority of hard drug users you know, if they are from this background are on cocaine. Heroin is going through something of a fashion revival, but is still a poor mans drug compared to coke.

I think that generally every drug addict or hard drug user began with substances like cannabis but that defintely does not mean that anyone who ever lit up a spliff is doomed to drug addiction. There are so many factors that lead to a person becoming a junkee that to say that the use of cannabis is a 'gateway' to that sort of life is laughable, no matter the sort of connections cannabis use or dealing may get you or how willing to experiment further it may make you...
Hmm, I think there should have been an 'it depends...but I'll explain anyway' option on this ere poll :cool: ...

Don't be ridiculous. If there really is such a thing as a "Gateway Drug" Television, Shopping, Tobbaco, Coffee and Alcohol are the ones to watch out for. Ganja is just another step on a slippery slope, not the begining of it.

I was strung out on Morphine for 5 years, and the cause of my addiction was ME. I used it to self-medicate, which is quite common among addicts. When I was finaly diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and given proper treatment for it, I no longer needed to get mangled on narcotics to control my malfunctioning and constantly fluctuating moods. Drug abuse and addiction are just symptoms of a problem that begins long before someones first bottle of booze or toke on a joint.

Well you could argue that through a habit of smoking marijuana, you could end up befriending the kind of people that also take other drugs. So yes, Marijuana is a gateway drug.

Having said that, the same could be said for alcohol. In fact the connection between marijuana and hard drugs is probably much weaker than the connection between various other hobbies and hard drugs.

For example, I would argue that if your favourite 'hobbie' is going out and dancing to techno or house music, you are much more likely to become friends with people who do hard drugs than if you're favorite hobbie is staying in and getting stoned.

This is sort of a take of another poll I saw floating around this forum. Do you think that marijuana is a gateway drug (meaning that it's use will lead to further, more dangerous drug experimentation)? If so, please state why. If not, please state why. Also, I am interested in anyone's opinion on this, whether you have tried marijuana or not.
Fuck. Anyone that says doesnt know what theyre talking about.

3% of people that try pot move on to other things and thoes people are falures before they even try pot.

END OF DISCUSSION

Well you could argue that through a habit of smoking marijuana, you could end up befriending the kind of people that also take other drugs. So yes, Marijuana is a gateway drug.


How and where did you get the marijuana? Oh, from these people, so you knew them anyway, before you smoked any mj or did both the people and the mj magically appear with the first toke of the joint you did noit have before you toked on it. No, I think not.

People may be gateways to harder drug use, but marijuana is not.

Well you could argue that through a habit of smoking marijuana, you could end up befriending the kind of people that also take other drugs. So yes, Marijuana is a gateway drug.

Having said that, the same could be said for alcohol. In fact the connection between marijuana and hard drugs is probably much weaker than the connection between various other hobbies and hard drugs.

For example, I would argue that if your favourite 'hobbie' is going out and dancing to techno or house music, you are much more likely to become friends with people who do hard drugs than if you're favorite hobbie is staying in and getting stoned.

See I think that theory falls into another myth. That people selling or doing drugs seek out innocent passers-by, but it is in my experience as actually dealing with and being that person, that it is the opposite. I sought them out. It is free-will. In fact most people who use and especially the ones that sell are extremely secretive about it and you have to find them. Yes of course if you sit in your house you're not gonna encounter these people...Again here is the importance that it's an individual decision, which is why I made the point of asking the question if mj did not exist, would people still use hard drugs? Of course! And not fair to say that everyone I hang around with is more likely to do drugs, most do not even know what I've experimented with and hopefully never will.

3% of people that try pot move on to other things and thoes people are falures before they even try pot.

END OF DISCUSSION


You can't even spell failure properly and you paint everyone who has done hard drugs as failures? Next time you open your mouth, make sure it isn't just to switch feet. Heres a list of people you would dismiss as failures:
Sigmund Freud, Alister Crowley, Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, FRANK SINATRA, Vincent Van Gogh, Matisse, Renoir, Gaugin, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Samuel Jackson, Jim Morrison.. the list goes on and on. Categorizing all hard drug users failures before they even touched a drug is just plain stupidity, but I'm sure we can blame the War On Drugs for brainwashing you. Oh yeah...the War ON Drugs is a failure too.

Many well qualified, non partisan experts would disagree
they like to use the magic words metally addicting not physically addicting. basically it means you like it. it doesnt posess physically addicting qualities that cocaine does. as in your brain doesnt tell you, you need it. it just says you like it. no different than eating ice cream. you like ice cream but your brain doesnt physically change and release chemicals telling you that you need it.

Marijuana is a gateway drug primarily because it's illegal. In order to buy marijuana people must either venture into neighborhoods where drug sales are the main source of employment and run a gauntlet of people offering them crack, cocaine, heroin, and other illegal drugs, or they must purchase their weed from drug dealers who make little money from weed and try to boost their profits with ecstacy, cocaine, methamphetamine, or other drugs.

Either way they're exposed to constant offers to buy more dangerous and addictive drugs in their pursuit of the benign weed.

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I don't agree. I know many individuals who sell marijuana and do not believe in selling other drugs. If I wanted to get some marijuana, I certainly would not have to go into the ghetto to get it, and would never run into a pusher trying to sell me other (hard) drugs. I have very rarely ever been asked to buy hard drugs, and when I have, it was not in the persuit of buying marijuana. The comments made in the above statement reek of inexperience and a lack of knowledge of the drug scene, and how it works. If you have to go to a dealer of hard drugs to get marijuana, it's time to make "new friends".