NationStates Jolt Archive

Im sure many of you have heard about this. This is absolutely outrageous. I believe the writers of this article should face some type of penalty. Read this and comment.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/index.html

You have to let the press do its job free from fear of retribution whenver it makes a mistake or else the news would get very dull. Plus what makes you so sure it didn't happen? As you may have noticed america's standards when it comes to treating prisoners humanely have dipped someewhat in the last few years.

You can't really blame the writer. His source claimed he knew what he was talking about what he said it. Yes, there was some doubt, but there's always doubt in the pentagon when the pentagon is accused, even if indirectly, of wrong-doing. I'm just glad that the story turned out to be false.

The NY times article about this said

" But Mr. Whitaker said in an interview later: "We're not retracting anything. We don't know for certain what we got wrong."

Newsweek is basicly apologizing for pissing off the pentagon, but not coming out and saying they are completely wrong. Who knows what really happened.

http://nytimes.com/2005/05/16/international/asia/16koran.html?hp&ex=1116302400&en=0c054db012d81289&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Not this again. This was already dealt with in the thread "Paging Liberal Outrage"

I'll reiterate the point I raised on the last thread. It's not the techniques that are used in torture that is causing the outrage. It's the fact that torture is being carried out by the self described "beacon of liberty" that is fuelling the anger.

Funny, I read the story and no one flat out denies any such incidents took place, they only say they are unable to corraborate them.

Seems I heard that line before, when the original stories of abuse at Gitmo were being thrown around, ya know, before those photos surfaced......

We're never gonna know the truth on this one, face it. After the abuse scandal even if it did happen it will be officially buried and a token investigation done. What else would you expect? They've been embarassed enough that their gonna do their best to bury any remaining skeletons in the closet as deep as they can.

I'll close with two things I know. Most myths have their basis in fact. The truth is usually somewhere between the two sides told.

Not this again. This was already dealt with in the thread "Paging Liberal Outrage"

I'll reiterate the point I raised on the last thread. It's not the techniques that are used in torture that is causing the outrage. It's the fact that torture is being carried out by the self described "beacon of liberty" that is fuelling the anger.

I think in this particular case the ourtrage is being sparked by blasphemy. A lot of people there (and too many here for that matter) think that this is a war of Christianity over Islam, and desecration of a holy book would piss them off all on its own, let alone that it's being used to coerce prisoners.

Im sure many of you have heard about this. This is absolutely outrageous. I believe the writers of this article should face some type of penalty. Read this and comment.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/index.html

Are you equally outraged by the irresponsible leadership that decided to detain these prisoners in the first place?

America deserves what it gets for the things that it does.

No free pass for the americans, no muzzling of the press.

Well even if they didn't flush the Koran down the toilet they did a lot of other things designed to 'break' the faith of Muslims held in captivity including sexually oriented torture.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/afghan.detainees/
http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/05/12/afghan.claim/index.html

I think they're only backing down because it's something so incendiary that the Muslim world is literally up in arms. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. I worked in the news media for a while and I know that when your editor says jump, you jump, when he says ditch the story, you ditch it.

His Grace, etc etc, the Lord Chancellor of Cathenia

What's wrong in providing some reading material on the loo?

Should I ask a muslim for permission before I throw my Quran into the trash can - for fear they might start another holy war?


If they want to kill themselves, they shall go ahead. Just like the gun-crazy Americans.


BTW, those people were not killed by western journalists but by muslims.


I'd say we need more of this creative journalism. The Chinese or any nationalists are a good medium too. They go crazy like hell if you harm their "national pride".

Next day just tell them "sorry, didn't mean it - anyway, it's your fault if you read forbidden literature, like western newspapers".

Not this again. This was already dealt with in the thread "Paging Liberal Outrage"

I'll reiterate the point I raised on the last thread. It's not the techniques that are used in torture that is causing the outrage. It's the fact that torture is being carried out by the self described "beacon of liberty" that is fuelling the anger.

Not it's not mate, it is the fact they are desecrating the quran.
About the only thing that would piss them off more is desecrating the shrines in Medina and Jerusulem(?) and that object in Mecca, (can not remember name of object, but it is the big cube that they all face when praying).
It's far worse than bible burning to Christians. In fact, I think the only thing that could compare is performing a abortion in the Vatican.

Im sure many of you have heard about this. This is absolutely outrageous. I believe the writers of this article should face some type of penalty. Read this and comment.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/index.htmlI've got the feeling (and no proof behind it) that what they wrote was honest enough (at least from their perspective, I don't know a thing about whether theri source was right) that they'd prefer to stand by their claims, but that they are pressured, encouraged or even just feel personally obligated (maybe for the right, maybe for the wrong) to make a diplomatic withdrawl in the interests of trying to cool the flames that were stirred up... Sort of tempt the cat half-way back into the bag again, or something...

I make no judgement about the rights or wrongs of the original information, the rights or wrongs of the actual reporting involved or the rights or wrongs of any suggestions (or personal convictions) made that they should withdraw, because it's reached a point whereby there are agendas abounding and even those without ulterior motives are probably unsure as to the accuracy of any reports (1st-, 2nd- or 3rd-hand). There'll be people wishing they'd never gone ahead with their particular involvement and others that would defend their rights to have done/said/not-done/not-said what they did (do/say/not-do/not-say) to the hilt. I'm not expecting a quick settlement into a state where the furore has died down and any wrongs commited have been righted (/corrected/atoned for), not least because I've no idea which thoughts and deeds are covered by that...

Not it's not mate, it is the fact they are desecrating the quran.
About the only thing that would piss them off more is desecrating the shrines in Medina and Jerusulem(?) and that object in Mecca, (can not remember name of object, but it is the big cube that they all face when praying).
It's far worse than bible burning to Christians. In fact, I think the only thing that could compare is performing a abortion in the Vatican.

It's supposed to contain the first muslim shrine, where Mohammed prayed to God.


As for the journalists...I can see no blame on the writers of the article - the press is not supposed to censor itself to keep people happy.

What I find interesting is when American media reports that they have done something bad to Muslims, the Muslims respond by saying, "Evil American Imperialists" :riot:
But when the American media reports that they are trying to bring democracy to the middle east, free the people, basically do something good. The Muslims respond by saying, "Evil American Imperialists" :riot:

Are you equally outraged by the irresponsible leadership that decided to detain these prisoners in the first place?

No not really. War is war. Wasnt to long ago (within the past 50yrs) that this kind of thing wouldnt even get published. It only has been since Vietnam when war became so political and looked at with a microscope. To me thats where this problem with media/citizens overstepping there bounds started. Clearly if any one of you were to have lived prior that time you would realize that the world was a very different place. Although I guess you could blame the rise of the tv. Seems to go hand in hand with turning everything into a political topic.

What I find interesting is when American media reports that they have done something bad to Muslims, the Muslims respond by saying, "Evil American Imperialists" :riot:
But when the American media reports that they are trying to bring democracy to the middle east, free the people, basically do something good. The Muslims respond by saying, "Evil American Imperialists" :riot:


Interesting paradox isnt it.

No not really. War is war. Wasnt to long ago (within the past 50yrs) that this kind of thing wouldnt even get published. It only has been since Vietnam when war became so political and looked at with a microscope. To me thats where this problem with media/citizens overstepping there bounds started. Clearly if any one of you were to have lived prior that time you would realize that the world was a very different place. Although I guess you could blame the rise of the tv. Seems to go hand in hand with turning everything into a political topic.

yes, war is war. And even war has rules ...

Im sure many of you have heard about this. This is absolutely outrageous. I believe the writers of this article should face some type of penalty. Read this and comment.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/index.html

Well I think it's ironic if the USA torture or abuse prisoners, the media can't report it because it will lead to increased anger and hatred in other countries. So USA goverment can basicly do that ever they wan't because if the media report it they are evil-doers that add terrorist. That a wonderful world we live in...

*shrug* lies from the leaders of the US and UK led to the deaths of.. Oh who cares anymore.

America is really popular at the moment, that is a really popular target of abuse.

America is really popular at the moment, that is a really popular target of abuse.


Very true. Just hope we dont hear a bunch of screaming when we turn around and start dishing it out to whom deserve it.

You can't really blame the writer. His source claimed he knew what he was talking about what he said it. Yes, there was some doubt, but there's always doubt in the pentagon when the pentagon is accused, even if indirectly, of wrong-doing. I'm just glad that the story turned out to be false.


kind of like "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction"., huh?

While I agree that the story should have been checked out more carefully before it was printed, the ultimate blame for those deaths lies upon the irresponsible people who rioted and directly caused the deaths.

As a student journalist myself, I am totally sickened by this lack of credibility on part of Newsweek.

Yeah, we sure did go to Iraq solely to liberate the people. Or so Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush tell us right now. Who knows what the story may be next week? As I recall, we invaded ( I can say we because I was with the 1st MEU for that invasion) to secure our place in the world by ousting a dictator who had WMDs and was posing an imminent threat to our security. Funny how the original intent for invasion disappeared after we found no evidence of nuc, chem, or bio weapons.
Is it likely that the Qur'an was misused during interrogations at Guantanamo? Probably. In fact, I would think that it is more likely than not, especially how the 'detainees' (being classified as such means that we do NOT have to follow the Geneva Conventions for POW treatment) have no legal standing. Events at Abu Gharib probably severly checked what was going on there, but who knows? The media has an obligation to report what our government does and inform the people. If they did not do that, then we would hold our government even less accountable than we do now.
And, the 'thing with the black curtain around it' is the Ka'baa.

kind of like "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction"., huh?nope totally different. the information about the WMD's were obtained by documents being sent to Saddam himself. Inother words, Saddam also believed he had WMD's because he was being lied to by his people.

What i wonder is... why were muslims throughout the world so terribly annoyed about this? IMHO, it does take a serious dose of paranoia to actually do that. :eek:

Hello? Brains?

I guess everyone is still stuck in they past on this story.

Last night on PBS. Then again on NBC today show this morning and picked up by multiple papers across the nation. Newsweek Editor Mark Whitaker said

“Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Quran abuse at Guantanamo Bay,”


So it seems that now they know for sure it was false and a lie and are retracting the whole thing. How can you guys not be that up on current news stories.

“Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Quran abuse at Guantanamo Bay,”

So it seems that now they know for sure it was false and a lie and are retracting the whole thing. How can you guys not be that up on current news stories.You'll read an earlier post from me that shows how little credibility I even give my own view on this (because I can never know the truth, and my speculation is easily capable of being way off the mark) but an alternate explanation is that it is based upon the unspoken "we know now [that printing such news, true or otherwise, is bound to inflame the international situation and that], we are retracting original story ".

It could have happened. A lot of things [I]could have happened, and yet it might not have happened. Independantly of this (save for whatever line of events pursuaded Newsweek to publish the story, rooted or not in truth) the article itself has changed the world more than the initial act itself might ever have done and it is that which the Newsweek team regret or wish to mitigate, by whatever means (even abasing themselves and telling necessary half-truths to pull back the possible-truths).

In the days before media (well, organised media, there have always been minstrels or equivalent) interntational situations would go into flames through the physical act of troops crossing borders, these days it is possible for someone to seed rebellion on the other side of the world by a few unwise (or carefully crafted, if they are Machiovellian) words upon a single web-page...



Of course, the people who think that the act was done are going to interpret my above statements to mean that I don't think it was and the ones who think it wasn't are going to interpret them as that I do. Plus the same problem with those who think I lay/don't lay blame on the journal/journalists/sources/original-perpetrators (of crime or lie). It's so hard to balance the line of neutrality I'm trying to stay upon, so believe me that I don't know and I don't even suspect, I'm merely highlighting what I think is a so far missed side-interpretation.

Im sure many of you have heard about this. This is absolutely outrageous. I believe the writers of this article should face some type of penalty. Read this and comment.

Which is why the news media should always continue to employ editors, and newssources that wish to remain credible should have a section for selfreflection and explaining their motivations behind articles. Mistakes will continue to be made - but at least you'd know they try not to.

Too bad more and more people think random websites are superior sources of newsgathering. Wiki's have potential, as do blogs with comment functions - but they're not the holy grail..

*End of babbling*