NationStates Jolt Archive

MEX. PREZ FEELS HEAT OVER BLACK REMARKS


May 15, 2005 -- Mexican President Vicente Fox came under fire yesterday for saying Mexicans were willing to take jobs "that not even blacks want to do in the United States."

"There's no doubt that the Mexican men and women — full of dignity, willpower and a capacity for work — are doing the work that not even blacks want to do in the United States," Fox told a meeting of the Texas-Mexico Frozen Food Council in Puerto Vallarta on Friday.

Fox's remark came a day after Mexico announced it would formally protest recent U.S. immigration reforms, including the decision to extend walls along the border and make it harder for illegal migrants to get driver's licenses.

While Mexican newspaper Milenio called Fox's comment "racist" in a front-page headline, and the newspaper Reforma called the president's words "controversial," the Rev. Jesse Jackson called them "unwitting, unnecessary and inappropriate."

He said the president "should not confuse the need for sound legal immigration policy between the two countries, which is important, and the border disputes between the two countries, with a spurious comparison."

Mexico's foreign relations secretary, Luis Derbez, said Fox was not motivated by racism, but was emphasizing that "Mexican migrants are making great contributions in the United States and that their role is a positive role."

Linkey (http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/44081.htm)
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You have GOT to be freaking kidding me... :eek: :D

May 15, 2005 -- Mexican President Vicente Fox came under fire yesterday for saying Mexicans were willing to take jobs "that not even blacks want to do in the United States."

While Mexican newspaper Milenio called Fox's comment "racist" in a front-page headline, and the newspaper Reforma called the president's words "controversial," the Rev. Jesse Jackson called them "unwitting, unnecessary and inappropriate."




Wonder what good old Jesse would have said if a Republican had made those comments? Probably be calling for some race riots....well in all all honesty he probably leaves the riot stuff to Sharpton, Jesse has bigger/more lucrative fish to fry.

unfortunate wording. i guess mr fox doesnt understand that "black" isnt a social or economic class in the US. there are no jobs reserved for black people to do.

on the other hand, illegal mexican workers in the US do jobs that not even the most desperate american will do. they work hard, often in brutal condidtions, for low pay. our farmers are facing hard times this year because far fewer migrant workers are available to pick crops. so we pay in higher food prices. but im sure its all worth it.

If they're legal, I'll tolerate them more. If they're illegal, I couldn't care less what craphole job they do. The point is - THEY ARE ILLEGAL. Period. That's it. Illegal means illegal, not "oh well if they work for dirt cheap they're okay." ILLEGAL. Okay? Great.

Fox is such a pathetic dumbass. I'm glad to see him showing his colors in a way Americans can understand. I also liked when he said that Mexican guest workers wouldn't stay in the US because they like tacos too much. Does he know that you can get tacos anywhere in this country and even "real tacos" here in the southwest?

For the record, there certainly are some places in this country where you'll find pretty much all-black workforces doing shitty jobs. And yes, Mexicans will underbid them if they show up. Whatever the case, there are virtually no jobs that at least some Americans won't do, as long as the pay makes it worthwhile.

Of course, there are also lots blacks working big-money jobs who wouldn't dream of plucking chickens for a living. So I guess he's right, a Mexican guest worker would be willing to do all kinds of nasty crap that a black man with a masters degree couldn't get paid enough to do.

What a dumbass.

Poor Poor Vincente... He is right though. But unfortunatly he didn't realize how fresh all the wounds of race issues are up here.

Fox is such a pathetic dumbass. I'm glad to see him showing his colors in a way Americans can understand. I also liked when he said that Mexican guest workers wouldn't stay in the US because they like tacos too much. Does he know that you can get tacos anywhere in this country and even "real tacos" here in the southwest?
.

Oh god, I havent a GOOD taco in so many years. Tacos are crap in NY. I have gotten some great tacos in Texas and in Mexico. Freshly made tortillas(crisp and warm), fresh beef, with the cheese melted right in and the lettuce crisp. Damn, India sucks. Wouldnt even know where to get taco bell quality tacos here, let alone the real stuff.

mexicans do help the US econ along with all other immgrints groups here comes the problems through the real cause of this Illegal Immgrimration is one thing and one thing alone .

THe WELFARE STATE ! americans Used to do these jobs but in the 60s LBJ started the great soicalist socity program . now with low wage jobs having to compete with goverment welfare i creates a huge incentive for all these people not to work .

i'm all for immgrints but first lets kick the bums off welfar and make them pick the fruit wash my car do the laudry and clean hotel rooms .

i think maybe we need like another Ellis Island in the US a way to manage immgration .

"Poor Poor Vincente... He is right though. But unfortunatly he didn't realize how fresh all the wounds of race issues are up here. "

I'm black and i dont give a rats ass . and race wounds that bullshit 95% of the time u here someone whinning about how bad it is to be black its a Rich white libral or a white 60s hippy type . the other 4% OF the time its a race batter like the Rearend Jessie HiJackson the other 1% of the times its the real deal

I'm from Chicago and i swear there are more people here from Poland than anywhere else

I'm from Chicago and i swear there are more people here from Poland than anywhere else

Are you sure? I thought Poland had more people from Poland than anywhere else. :D

Are you sure? I thought Poland had more people from Poland than anywhere else. :D
You clearly haven't been watching the news.

Last I heard, the only city in the world with more Polish than Chicago was Warsaw.

i'm all for immgrints but first lets kick the bums off welfar and make them pick the fruit wash my car do the laudry and clean hotel rooms
I'm all for getting rid of govt welfare (private charity works better IMHO), but remember, it's better if we phase the system out rather than go cold turkey, which could cause a lot of problems.

"Poor Poor Vincente... He is right though. But unfortunatly he didn't realize how fresh all the wounds of race issues are up here. "

I'm black and i dont give a rats ass . and race wounds that bullshit 95% of the time u here someone whinning about how bad it is to be black its a Rich white libral or a white 60s hippy type . the other 4% OF the time its a race batter like the Rearend Jessie HiJackson the other 1% of the times its the real deal

Nicely said.

It seams that racism exists more by people who profit by keeping it alive than anything else. People like Jackson and Sharpton who make tons of money as long as they are championing a cause. Even if they have to artificially keep that cause alive.

"Poor Poor Vincente... He is right though. But unfortunatly he didn't realize how fresh all the wounds of race issues are up here. "

I'm black and i dont give a rats ass . and race wounds that bullshit 95% of the time u here someone whinning about how bad it is to be black its a Rich white libral or a white 60s hippy type . the other 4% OF the time its a race batter like the Rearend Jessie HiJackson the other 1% of the times its the real deal


Iama "rich white liberal" and I don't think it's bad to be black. I have three black friends who are wonderful people and I wouldn't give them up for the world; and they have nice lives with their parents working at respected positions. (I live in Kansas, not to many african americans)

As for Illegals, they're ILLEGAL, syn: NOT ALLOWED, AGAINST THE LAW, WRONGFUL. That means DON'T LET THEM IN, if they want to get here, they can do it legally..

I'm telling you Fox is the worst president Mexico has ever had. He doesn't have an economic policy beyond sending people illegally to the US, he is completely useless as a politician, and a laughing stock as a statesman.

Tony Garza, US Ambassador to Mexico, has also come under heat for declaring something along the lines of "depending on oil exports and money sent from outside the country is not an economic policy." And that's the truth, but Mexicans still think they're living in the 19th Century and foreigners have no right to speak (unless they say something nice).

Now Fox has let his ignorance and prejudices show. Sadly, these vices exist all through the Mexican government and society. A study conducted by a government body on discrimination in Mexico is going to be published on Tuesday, some of the preliminary reports on the findings are truly scary.

Nicely said.

It seams that racism exists more by people who profit by keeping it alive than anything else. People like Jackson and Sharpton who make tons of money as long as they are championing a cause. Even if they have to artificially keep that cause alive.


True. What better way to keep your name in the headlines by crying racism over every little issue and then blowing it out of proportion. Sure there are real cases of racism but I think that most are just made into racist issues like the NBA minimum age limit for example that David Stern wants to get added to the next collective bargaining agreement.

Socialistic Nationals']If they're legal, I'll tolerate them more. If they're illegal, I couldn't care less what craphole job they do. The point is - THEY ARE ILLEGAL. Period. That's it. Illegal means illegal, not "oh well if they work for dirt cheap they're okay." ILLEGAL. Okay? Great.

How can someone be illegal? Someone can do, say, or have something illegal. Someone can be a criminal. But how does a person become illegal? That aside, do you ever berate people for jaywalking? That's illegal activity too, and you seem to have an especially deep concern for the sanctity of law...

Why can't you people just admit that you're xenophobes and you mostly object to them being Mexican at least as much as illegal immigrants. How many white illegal immigrants are there? More than you talk about, that's for sure. You don't seem to care about them, because they don't threaten your racist worldview. Am I right?

Why can't you people just admit that you're xenophobes

I am not afraid of foreigners, however I don't want them here illegally.

I am not afraid of foreigners, however I don't want them here illegally.

Then you would be for legislature that makes it easier and more efficient to immigrate legally to the US from Mexico?

Then you would be for legislature that makes it easier and more efficient to immigrate legally to the US from Mexico?

I'd have to read it over myself, but generally yes, I would support it.

.. you seem to have an especially deep concern for the sanctity of law...
Why can't you people just admit that you're xenophobes.


(xenophobes) r just like this CNN icon..

http://www.americanpolitics.com/WOWloudobbs.jpg

I'd have to read it over myself, but generally yes, I would support it.

OK.

I guess my comments were aimed more at [NS]Socialistic Nationals then you.

Originally Posted by Native Quiggles
Why can't you people just admit that you're xenophobes.

I never said that, I quoted it :K

How can someone be illegal? Someone can do, say, or have something illegal. Someone can be a criminal. But how does a person become illegal? That aside, do you ever berate people for jaywalking? That's illegal activity too, and you seem to have an especially deep concern for the sanctity of law...

Why can't you people just admit that you're xenophobes and you mostly object to them being Mexican at least as much as illegal immigrants. How many white illegal immigrants are there? More than you talk about, that's for sure. You don't seem to care about them, because they don't threaten your racist worldview. Am I right?

No, you are not right.

A person is illegal when they are illegally in a country where they are not allowed to be in. When they use services that they are not entitled to.

Do I think that US immigration policy with regards to Mexico should be reformed...of course I do. I think some sort of program wherein Mexicans can come here and work and go back(or stay) should be instituted. Everybody seems to want it.

But to argue that someone who smuggled him/her self across the border is someow not illegal is a fallacy.

By all means, come here, work, pay taxes, support you family abraod or eventually bring them here. This is what our country was founded on.

Some people follow the rules and others dont, dont put them in the same boat.

Nicely said.

It seams that racism exists more by people who profit by keeping it alive than anything else.
Like generating white noise over one sentence in a speech that makes a sensitive comparison so no one has to face the basic truth of what was being said...

Like generating white noise over one sentence in a speech that makes a sensitive comparison so no one has to face the basic truth of what was being said...

If you had read my posts, you would see that my issues are with Jesse Jackson not President Fox. And even with that, it was only a supposition.

If you had read my posts, you would see that my issues are with Jesse Jackson not President Fox. And even with that, it was only a supposition.
If you understood the notion of media white noise you'd understand why the fact that a thread about the Mexican Presidents speech that contains a discussion of Jesse Jackson is very much a part of it.

Are we discussing the reality of what he said? No. We're discussing the black/white race issue. Why? Because someone, and it's not Jesse Jackson, was profiting on creating that the focus instead of the substance of the speech, thus creating white noise so no one has to think about what was really being said.

In short, that you where discussing Jackson here is white noise.

No, you are not right.

A person is illegal when they are illegally in a country where they are not allowed to be in. When they use services that they are not entitled to.

Do I think that US immigration policy with regards to Mexico should be reformed...of course I do. I think some sort of program wherein Mexicans can come here and work and go back(or stay) should be instituted. Everybody seems to want it.

But to argue that someone who smuggled him/her self across the border is someow not illegal is a fallacy.

By all means, come here, work, pay taxes, support you family abraod or eventually bring them here. This is what our country was founded on.

Some people follow the rules and others dont, dont put them in the same boat.

I guess you took that the wrong way. I was not saying crossing a border illegally is not illegal. I was saying it does not make the person, themselves, illegal. Does jaywalking make you illegal? You people say "illegals" as if thats how to DEFINE these people, that they are somehow not just people who have done something illegally, but illegal people.

Consider.

"Murder is illegal." This means it's illegal to murder. Murder should not be done.

"Stealing a car is illegal." This means theft is illegal. Theft should not be done.

"Joe is illegal." It is illegal to be Joe. Joe should not exist?

By labelling someone as "illegal" for having committed a [pretty minor] crime, you help demonize and dismiss them. And since I've NEVER heard anyone refer to convicted felons as "illegals" for having committed crimes, it's inconsistant with the idea that calling them "illegals" results from them committing crimes.

Stick with "illegal immigrants," which is what they are, and by saying that it makes you sound like less of a xenophobe. And really, is typing "immigrants" such hard work?

The problem we have with immigration is we are doing NOTHING to secure our boarders properly. That and we need to do a series of things culture-wise.

1. Make people realize that ANY honest job is an honorable job.

2. Put kids to work.

3. Put kids to damned work.

4. Start deporting.

5. Force companies to stop outsourcing by taxing them heavily for it.

"Poor Poor Vincente... He is right though. But unfortunatly he didn't realize how fresh all the wounds of race issues are up here. "

I'm black and i dont give a rats ass . and race wounds that bullshit 95% of the time u here someone whinning about how bad it is to be black its a Rich white libral or a white 60s hippy type . the other 4% OF the time its a race batter like the Rearend Jessie HiJackson the other 1% of the times its the real deal
Not exactly nicely said but I agree to a point.

Can you really blame a Mexican guy for having some racist stereotypes of blacks? His only real exposure to them is American TV and Condoleeza Rice; both of which could easily inspire racism.

"Poor Poor Vincente... He is right though. But unfortunatly he didn't realize how fresh all the wounds of race issues are up here. "

I'm black and i dont give a rats ass . and race wounds that bullshit 95% of the time u here someone whinning about how bad it is to be black its a Rich white libral or a white 60s hippy type . the other 4% OF the time its a race batter like the Rearend Jessie HiJackson the other 1% of the times its the real deal


You so very rock.

As for the Polish and such in Chicago, back in the free market days there were huge numbers of people shipped in from places like Poland, Lithuania, et cetera, to fill in the big factory labor positions. Pretty nasty stuff, really. Much nastier than the stuff even most illegals have to put up with, considering the death toll.

bumps it to the top for easy noticing

Can you really blame a Mexican guy for having some racist stereotypes of blacks? His only real exposure to them is American TV and Condoleeza Rice; both of which could easily inspire racism.
I'm Mexican and I know better. The president simply has no excuse, he's either too stupid or too ignorant. Not what you're looking for in a president.

Besides, it's not like there are no black people in Mexico.

Fox is such a pathetic dumbass.

Just to set the record straight:

In the United States, if a man gets elected by the slimest majority in election history, he is granted a "mandate" and we should all get behind him.

In Mexico, when a man gets elected to office by a vast majority of the people, he's a "pathetic dumbass".

Well ok then.

Oh, and guys, it's Vicente, not Vincente.

I'm Mexican and I know better. The president simply has no excuse, he's either too stupid or too ignorant. Not what you're looking for in a president.


Well, fortunately, Presidents only get one term in Mexico. No re-election possible for him next year. :)

Well, fortunately, Presidents only get one term in Mexico. No re-election possible for him next year. :)
Yeah, that's some comfort. It was still better when it was only a 4-year term :(

They changed it to six in 1930.

The problem we have with immigration is we are doing NOTHING to secure our boarders properly. That and we need to do a series of things culture-wise.

1. Make people realize that ANY honest job is an honorable job.

2. Put kids to work.

3. Put kids to damned work.

4. Start deporting.

5. Force companies to stop outsourcing by taxing them heavily for it.
And promptly start a trade war. Do you even think about what stoping outsourcing would do for the literally millions of americans who work in corperations that are based overseas?

I assume that 2 and 3 would be aimed at me and my ilk. Personally, I've got better things to do with my summers then flip burgers, I take courses to further advance my education.

Are you sure? I thought Poland had more people from Poland than anywhere else. :D
Not sure about the Polish in Chicago, but I know there are more Puerto Ricans in New York than in Puerto Rico. So, it could be.

Why can't you people just admit that you're xenophobes and you mostly object to them being Mexican at least as much as illegal immigrants[?]
Why can't you just stop raping farm animals?

I swear those Poles. . .flooding across our borders unchecked. . .filling our college and NFL teams with linebackers and offensive linemen with names we can pronouce! It is appalling!

Just to set the record straight:

In the United States, if a man gets elected by the slimest majority in election history, he is granted a "mandate" and we should all get behind him.

In Mexico, when a man gets elected to office by a vast majority of the people, he's a "pathetic dumbass".

Well ok then.

Oh, and guys, it's Vicente, not Vincente.I NEVER said that President Bush isn't a pathetic dumbass and certainly NEVER EVER claimed that he had any sort of mandate whatsoever.

I NEVER said that President Bush isn't a pathetic dumbass and certainly NEVER EVER claimed that he had any sort of mandate whatsoever.

Oh I know *you* didn't ... that was really just a post to the general audience as a talking point more than anything. Almost all politicians are pathetic dumbasses.

Now ... if we could all go back to living the way they did in, say, the Wyoming territory circa 1860s, then we could see who'd survive true anarchy. :D

Well, we have ~38 milions of Poles here in Poland, whereas there's about a million of us in Chicago. Compare the numbers gentlemen...

Let's look at the situation in the county where I live.

We have a huge Salvadoran population in one sector of the county. If you want a laborer, you can go to one of the street corners in my area and pick up day laborers who will work for 15 dollars an hour. There are always Salvadoran men willing to work - and they sometimes earn more, if they know a trade.

You might think this is exploiting them, but it isn't. They are legal residents or US citizens. Willing to work.

On the other hand, we have a fair number of other people, of many different races (not just black) who are not willing to do day labor for 15 dollars an hour - even if they're capable of doing so. It's much easier to collect welfare than it is to do day labor.

Point of fact - if a lot of the unemployed here were willing to do certain jobs, there would not be a demand for immigrant labor - legal or illegal.

How can someone be illegal? Someone can do, say, or have something illegal. Someone can be a criminal. But how does a person become illegal? That aside, do you ever berate people for jaywalking? That's illegal activity too, and you seem to have an especially deep concern for the sanctity of law...

Why can't you people just admit that you're xenophobes and you mostly object to them being Mexican at least as much as illegal immigrants. How many white illegal immigrants are there? More than you talk about, that's for sure. You don't seem to care about them, because they don't threaten your racist worldview. Am I right?
I'm a xenophobe because I don't believe that anyone should be able to waltz across the border whenever they feel like it? I'm a xenophobe because I believe that if you're caught as an illegal immigrant the government has the right to deport you?
The government policies make provisions for desperate measures. Case in point: Honduras. The Honduras are undergoing a massive political upheaval which has resulted in civil war and fighting in the streets. As a result Honduran immigrants who are here illegally have a little under a year to apply for citizenship or temporary status without the government sending them home.

The undocumented foreign nationals (I hope I got that correct, politically) who stand around the front of the near-empty strip shopping malls in Houston in the early part of the mornings are not there to case the joint in order to burglarize it...they are "day laborers" looking for work so they can send a crapload of money back home to their families in impoverished communities.

Forget how well or how poorly Vicente Fox came across in the language he used, was he basically right or wrong about the willingness of poor Mexicans to come illegally into the US to take jobs that many US citizens won't do?

If the solution to illegal immigration is to clamp down on it effectively, then are you willing to pay so much more for some US citizen to do that job? If not, then quit belly-aching about illegal immigration.

Let's look at the situation in the county where I live.

We have a huge Salvadoran population in one sector of the county. If you want a laborer, you can go to one of the street corners in my area and pick up day laborers who will work for 15 dollars an hour. There are always Salvadoran men willing to work - and they sometimes earn more, if they know a trade.

You might think this is exploiting them, but it isn't. They are legal residents or US citizens. Willing to work.

On the other hand, we have a fair number of other people, of many different races (not just black) who are not willing to do day labor for 15 dollars an hour - even if they're capable of doing so. It's much easier to collect welfare than it is to do day labor.

Point of fact - if a lot of the unemployed here were willing to do certain jobs, there would not be a demand for immigrant labor - legal or illegal.
$15? Thats about £7 right? I earn less than that that

*Blushes to te point of spontaneous cumbustion*
Gods... Fox shames Mexico once again... v-v A joke, our bloody president is a joke.