NationStates Jolt Archive

Young offenders could be made to wear uniforms while carrying out community service punishments.

The UK Government is considering the plans after coming back from the election pledging to do more about yobbish behaviour and "disrespect".

Home Office minister Hazel Blears told the Observer the uniforms - which the paper compares to US-style chain gangs - would show justice was being done.

A Home Office spokesman said it was an idea, not a firm policy proposal.

Ms Blears told the Observer: "People feel very strongly that they don't often see justice being done."

Ms Blears also said she wanted parents to enforce sensible bedtimes for children and restore "structure" to family life, such as eating meals together. The new legislation would also provide some measures to deal with binge drinking, give schools the right to search pupils for weapons, and propose giving community groups and parish councils the power to apply for Anti-Social Behaviour Orders (Asbos).

How far do you agree, or disagree, with this idea? I'm interested to hear the ideas of those living outside the UK, as well as those who live here.

I think it's fair enough. Give offenders an extra reason to feel stupid.

Heh. "Yobbish." What does that mean? Funny word.

Anyway, I'm a fan of chain gangs, but if you're going to operate one in an urban area, uniforms are key to preventing escape, so absolutely.

In the wake of 15 years or more of rubbish research on boosting self-esteem, only to find that it doesn't really help, the last obstacle to 'shaming' and 'labelling' punishments has been removed.

Why shame and/or label? Because the social fabric is predicated on how we make social contracts as a society. Sometimes, however, it isn't possible to identify who has been in breach of such mores. This makes for imperfect social feedback - which is why people complain that justice hasn't been -seen- to be done.

It would be an oddly civilised society which never identified its criminals and/or social offenders.

Heh. "Yobbish." What does that mean? Funny word.

It means acting like a lout or hooligan

It means acting like a lout or hooligan

Haha, sweet. Kinda like "churlish" then, but funnier.

Sounds like some uber-authoritarian measure right out of 1984.

Sounds like a solid plan. I'm sick and tired of being afraid of getting the shit kicked out of me just walking home from college.

sounds like a good idea to me

Seems sensable to me, it makes them have to acknowledge what they are and allows the public to see justice done more clearly. However it could be counterproductive if the uniform is too overt or embarassing. It may cause resentment and create a cycle of reoffending. I think overall though, that problem is less of a problem than if we were putting them in prison.

This is from the middle of the BBC article:

"Introducing uniforms, caps, badges or naming and shaming offenders is likely to degrade them, make them resentful and not turn up for community punishment.

"This will meant the breach rate will soar and more will end up in prison, which is exactly what has happened in the US.

"Half of all reception into prison or custody in the States are for breaching community punishments."

This has no purpose other than to degrade the individual in question. Considering this is to be used for young offenders doing community service, what sort of impression is that going to give them of the way the system regards them? "You are marked", these uniforms say, "We know who you are, and so does everyone else." Community service punishments are about making the offender useful as well as punishing them; creating added animosity towards the system and probably the locals, who will be that much more resentful because of the "Us and them" mentality it will create, may not be the best way to rehabilitate.

This is from the middle of the BBC article:

"Introducing uniforms, caps, badges or naming and shaming offenders is likely to degrade them, make them resentful and not turn up for community punishment.

"This will meant the breach rate will soar and more will end up in prison, which is exactly what has happened in the US.

"Half of all reception into prison or custody in the States are for breaching community punishments."
i dont think that wearing special uniforms for community service is common in the US. the only time i can think of seeing it is when actual jail inmates wear bright orange uniforms so as to lessen the chances of being hit by a car while picking up trash on the highway. i think that kids dont show up for community service in the US because they dont want to and their parents dont make them. they arent the most law abiding of citizens eh?

Bad idea. It'll detract from the lessons in giving stuff back to the community, serving, and productive use of time, instead exposing the kids to ridicule and possibly abuse from the public. That's hardly going to teach the to be respectful if they themselves are being put up for show like an exhibit.

It'll detract from the lessons in giving stuff back to the community, serving, and productive use of time

These kids probably won't learn those lessons anyway - so why not make it compulsory?

instead exposing the kids to ridicule and possibly abuse from the public. That's hardly going to teach the to be respectful if they themselves are being put up for show like an exhibit.

Wait - these are the same kids that are on ASBOs for giving abuse to the public? So we should protect them from society?

As long as they don't have padding to get in the way of the caning, what's the problem here?

Don't Young Offenders naturally uniform themselves in the like of Burberry and Adidas anyway?

(Sorry! Kidding, peeps! :D)

uniform: http://www.stephenturvey.co.uk/images/news/dec04/chav.jpg

Given that one of the major reasons for young offences and thuggish behaviour is people having a pereception that society does not respect them (therefore why should they respect society), degrading them won't help the situation. In fact it may make it worse.

Plus uniforms make a nice target for vigilantes. And an eye for an eye will make the world go blind.

I say go the whole hog - compulsory boot camps.

Anyone see that program where they put some yobs through old style National Service training? Turned them into the kind of people you wouldn't mind sharing a pavement with.

Don't just give them a uniform and tell them that they're worse. Give them the uniform and tell them they'll end up better, then put them to work living up to their own ideal.

Yes, this is what is needed... Deterence.
Two major motivations in being deterred are fear and shame
Fear - Usually of punishment
Shame - Now they made me look like a dickhead/I look like a dickhead
This solution has both,
I do not want to do this otherwise I have to wear a stupid uniform and people will mock me while I complete my community service

Although what happens if they refuse?

Chavs and 'yobs' should be punished, simple as that.

Ms Blears told the Observer: "People feel very strongly that they don't often see justice being done."


Maybe people should move next to a prison then. We don't see justice being done because it is done behind a locked gate. If you want to see justice in action commit a crime, don't demand that offenders are paraded in public like dancing bears.

Yes, this is what is needed... Deterence.
Two major motivations in being deterred are fear and shame
Fear - Usually of punishment
Shame - Now they made me look like a dickhead/I look like a dickhead
This solution has both,
I do not want to do this otherwise I have to wear a stupid uniform and people will mock me while I complete my community service

I thought the idea of justice was rehabilitation, this just seems like revenge to me. Anyway, ASBOs have shown that naming and shaming doesn't always work and sometimes has the opposite effect.

This new scheme will simply build up resentment and only serve to make a bad situation worse.