NationStates Jolt Archive

I am writing to thank Congress for enacting the “Real ID Act” to set the standards for federally acceptable identification. I think that will help in resolving the problem with illegal aliens obtaining drivers licenses. However, I view this as only a first step in doing something about illegal immigration and would like to suggest some other actions I feel Congress should consider.

Recently, Ireland passed a law so someone born in Ireland will not automatically be an Irish citizen. To be a citizen, a child born in Ireland must have at least one parent who is an Irish citizen. If we were to adopt a similar law it might stop some people from coming here illegally and having children who are then eligible for state and or federal aid.

So called “sanctuary cities,” where the city officials will not allow the police to arrest illegal immigrants based only on their immigration status, are a problem. One way to solve this problem would be to cut off federal funds for any state or local government that prevent their police from enforcing federal immigration law.

Illegal immigrants are costing us millions of dollars a year for medical services and public education. Why not pass a law requiring medical facilities and schools to ask for a federally approved form of identification or proof of immigration status. If the medical facility or school did not do so they would loose federal aid. Send the patient or student a bill for the services and if they do not pay, send the bill to the government of their country. If the country does not pay, cut federal aid to that country.

I’m getting a little tired of paying taxes to support someone who is in this country illegally. That money could be better spent on our own citizens and those who have entered the country legally.

Thank you for your time.

Illegal immigrants are costing us millions of dollars a year for medical services and public education.

Who is this "us"? They don't cost me a dime. Have you sat down and calculated just how much they've cost you personally or are you just spouting out the same old talking heads babble?

I'd like to hear a figure of exactly how much money illegal immigrants have cost you in, say, the last 10 years. Money that you would have had anyway, in your bank account. If you do actually come up with a figure and it's less than a couple thousand bucks, quit your whining.

Thank god my country is moving the opposite direction.. :D

One born in our ground, is one of us, so the law states. Hey, so what if Africans are flocking here? We need the workforce, we need the taxes they pay, and we need their hunger for better lives.

Who is this "us"? They don't cost me a dime. Have you sat down and calculated just how much they've cost you personally or are you just spouting out the same old talking heads babble?

I'd like to hear a figure of exactly how much money illegal immigrants have cost you in, say, the last 10 years. Money that you would have had anyway, in your bank account. If you do actually come up with a figure and it's less than a couple thousand bucks, quit your whining.

The us are the citizens of the US. Medical care and education for illegal immigrants costs local, state, and federal government millions of dollars a year. This is money that could be better spent on our own citizens.

Thank god my country is moving the opposite direction.. :D

One born in our ground, is one of us, so the law states. Hey, so what if Africans are flocking here? We need the workforce, we need the taxes they pay, and we need their hunger for better lives.

Are these people entering your country legally or illegaly? There is no problem with legal immigration, the problem is with illegal immigration.

Are these people entering your country legally or illegaly? There is no problem with legal immigration, the problem is with illegal immigration.

They enter illegally, then they are quickly legalized... not that there are any real barriers to stop someone to enter.

The us are the citizens of the US. Medical care and education for illegal immigrants costs local, state, and federal government millions of dollars a year. This is money that could be better spent on our own citizens.

And, yet, I still see no monetary amount that you've lost due to these illegal immigrants. I'm glad to know you have a cause, but at least be able to answer one simple question when posed to you.

As for the rest of it, will you still be thanking your congressmen after the first few cops approach you and say, "Papers, please"?

I, for one, will refuse this gestapo crap. You have fun with it, though.

Face it, the government and business do not want to stem the flow of illegal immigration.

Why? For one thing, because American 'citizens' don't want to do the hard labor that the nation requires. For another thing, it is good for business.

"Marco de la Cruz" comes to the United States to better his life. It takes too long for him to get the proper work visa. His family live in Sacateca, Mexico in what amounts to little more than a cardboard box. He sees his brothers and sisters living in squaller and filth and can only work in his town (if he can find a job) for about $8 a day.

He looks up across the border and sees American 'citizens' bitching about making $10 an hour. He has to work harder then they do for a tenth of the pay. The risk that he must take to come across the border illegally is definitely worth the rewards. So he comes.

Does he take a job from an American 'citizen'? No. He takes a job that you are unwilling to do either because you feel it is beneath you or because you are too lazy to do the hard jobs. It is so much easier for you to go on welfare and sit on your lazy butt, than to go and earn a living and build a better life for yourself.

The agricultural industry alone would come crashing to its knees with out Marco. He is willing to work in the hot sun all day picking cabbage for $8 an hour. He is willing to enter a poultry plant and do whatever job is offered for the same wage as his American counterpart. He is willing to work the long, difficult hours without complaining and goldbricking. His American counterpart spends the same amount of time bitching and moaning about how bad the conditions of work are and how much the company is taking advantage. Remove Marco from the picture, and no one will be left to do the jobs that you refuse to do. Sure, you might be persuaded for more money. POSSIBLY. But even if you did come to the plant or the fields to work, you would soon quit because you are lazy. And, prices at the grocery store would skyrocket. Crops would rot in the fields for lack of someone who is willing to put the effort into doing the hard jobs. Frankly, give me ten Mexican women workers over twenty American men any day. They come to work every day. The don't complain all the time about their jobs. They are more productive and have a better work ethic. They realize how good Americans have it, and want better themselves and their families.

Now, as for Taxes, if you made it this far. Marco has a social security number that he is working under. Most of the time, the Government does not check behind those numbers. Why? Because they don't want to. Law requires that taxes be collected on the pay earned. Most of the employers will take taxes out, and pay their portion. This is free money to the government. Marco cannot file a tax return. And thus, all of the money that is collect, remains collected. It feeds the social security system, the medicare system and the medicaid system, all on a local, State and Federal level. Take that away and see how quickly your taxes get increased. It would happen overnight. Don't kid yourself. Their presence in the workforce is saving you more than their children receiving aid is costing you.

Where did your parents come from? Or grandparents? Or great-grandparents? How would you have liked it if when they came to this country some jackass closed the door and told them to get out and go back where they came from? Hell, they probably did. But, your ancestors persevered and stayed and built a new life for their children and ultimately YOU. Are you willing to renounce your citizenship and go back to where they came from simply because THEY were not born on American soil? Don't come back with, "Well, they had a legal right to be here." The term WOP, for instance, is considered to be a slur against Italians. In fact, however, it was a rubber stamp that was applied at Ellis Island to the top of the processing paperwork for illegal immigrants. It stands for "With Out Papers". These people were not turned away at the border. They were allowed to enter for the same reasons that I stated above. America is based on the ideas of freedom. The idea that the "Poor, huddled masses" have a home, a place where they can come to try to live a dream and be free, a place where their children and their children's children can make a new life and redefine their existance.

Stop being such a selfish bastard.

libertarian cries of alarm aside, the bill sounds fairly reasonable, however I have concerns with how much it would cost to implement. From the Washington Examiner (http://www.dcexaminer.com/articles/2005/04/08//opinion/op-ed/25oped08plummer.txt) :

"Finally, the REAL ID Act imposes extremely costly mandates on strapped state governments. The National Council of State Legislators calls the mandates "impossible," and estimates compliance costs of an initial $500 million to $750 million and ongoing annual costs of $50 million to $75 million. Standardizing everything besides the typeface on state driver's licenses and requiring such a document at every airport is a de facto internal passport. Making the sensitive information on the ID cards available to foreign governments will make Americans less secure while having no effect on border security."

With our current so-so economy, and our horrifying deficit, I do not think that our government is proritizing what should come first: another costly government program, or reducing the deficit in order to further stabalize our economy.

In the end, I again agree with the Washington Examiner (http://www.dcexaminer.com/articles/2005/04/08//opinion/op-ed/25oped08plummer.txt):

"At a minimum, the Senate should hold hearings and open debate on these changes rather than rush to include them in the "emergency" spending bill. If the "deliberative body" of our Congress deliberates responsibly, they will see REAL ID poses a danger to privacy, national security, and sovereignty."

Face it, the government and business do not want to stem the flow of illegal immigration.

Stop being such a selfish bastard.

You have some very good points there, and I can agree with you on some of them. However, your last comment was not called for.

....they will see REAL ID poses a danger to privacy, national security, and sovereignty."[/CENTER]

Why is it European countries that require national identity cards and , whose governments are usually more liberal than ours, don’t see it that way? :confused:

bump

The us are the citizens of the US. Medical care and education for illegal immigrants costs local, state, and federal government millions of dollars a year. This is money that could be better spent on our own citizens.

You do reaslize that some of these people come across with diseases like Whooping Cough and if they weren't given free treatment they could cause a lethal epidemic? I had a math teacher in university who caught pertussis from living in a poor neighborhood with plenty of imigrants when he was a kid. He got nerve damage that paralyzed half his body. He's one of the lucky ones.

Also, because of their lack of education they become a liability on society and could cause a glut in the lower class that could last for generations and cost society dearly in welfare. The only sure for that is free education.

It is cheaper to give them free health and education than not to.

You do reaslize that some of these people come across with diseases like Whooping Cough and if they weren't given free treatment they could cause a lethal epidemic? I had a math teacher in university who caught pertussis from living in a poor neighborhood with plenty of imigrants when he was a kid. He got nerve damage that paralyzed half his body. He's one of the lucky ones.

Also, because of their lack of education they become a liability on society and could cause a glut in the lower class that could last for generations and cost society dearly in welfare. The only sure for that is free education.

It is cheaper to give them free health and education than not to.

I agree with you. I didn't advocate not providing health care and education. What I said is they or their government should reimburse us for the cost of providing those essential services to illegal aliens. Knowing they can not afford it I see nothing wrong with charging their government for those services. Do you?

I agree with you. I didn't advocate not providing health care and education. What I said is they or their government should reimburse us for the cost of providing those essential services to illegal aliens. Knowing they can not afford it I see nothing wrong with charging their government for those services. Do you?

Heh ... then we end up with billions in unpaid bills that we're probably charging interest on. Sounds like a fun idea now, but 20 years down the road it could lead to an economic catastrophy.

Imagine having to sneak across the Canadian border to get a job and send the money back to your family in the States.

A couple of points to consider Celtlund:

1. the Definition of a U.S. Citizen being changed as you suggest (using the Ireland model) would require a Constitutional Amendment. It would be simpler and more efficient to reinstate the practice of Orphanages, and separate the newly-born American from his or her deported parent. "Simpler", but just about as hard to sell to the American People (even on the Right), don't look for traction on this one, you will find none, as Americans generally don't like to Amend Mr. Constitution very often (last one was the 26th Amendment, giving eighteen-year-olds the right to vote.)

2. It would be amusing to see California lose its Federal Funds because of the actions of their legislature in preventing the enforcement of U.S. Immigration law. the savings from that could be turned to increasing funding support to expedite Legal immigration activities. (California is one of those states that relies heavily on Federal Funding to support its economy...)
I expect folks in hell will be wearing woolens before that happens-Calfornia is a massively powerful State, and while automatically-Democrat (and thereby, politically not-in-play), it's got serious influence in Media and other major power-bases. Federal Courts have already ruled that Los Angeles owns the western-slope watershed of the Rocky Mountains in all but name.
The moral: "Fat Chance".

3. Most illegals can't pay their bills-that's why they came to the U.S., you won't collect a whole hell of a lot, and Indentured Servitude has been illegal in the U.S. since 1864 or so. Foreign governments won't pay either. You can submit the bill, and they'll laugh at you.
Going to war over it is out of the question (and quite rightly so).
Make their Employer pay. He can cover it out of what he saves by not hiring people who are here legally and whatnot. You'll actually be able to collect on that, and it will encourage labour outfits to see about getting some kind of health-insurance that covers illegal immigrants.


The biggest problem we have, is that it does take too long to issue legit work-visas, and it takes too long to process prospective new-Citizens. This is not because we want to take so long, it's because there just isn't enough bodies x Hours of the day x Funding to handle the load of people who apply-much less the load of people who've given up on application in favour of the less-aggravating route of sneaking in.
Serious Immigration reform has to address the sheer combination of labour-demands, and weight of applicants. It's one of the few areas I would be comfortable in increasing spending on the Federal Level.

(the other two, in case you were wondering, are National Defense/military, and the Space Programme.)

4. Cutting off Welfare/SSI/Medicaid/etc. to non-citizens is a no-brainer, but one you won't see either. In some places, these people have managed to get the vote-and those places are incredibly politically powerful.
It would be very nice indeed if they would just become Citizens if they're already voting-that would take significant reforms to accomplish as well, and it would also take a climate that allows some guy who's been here three to six years "In Secret" being able to come out and apply.

I am writing to thank Congress for enacting the “Real ID Act” to set the standards for federally acceptable identification. I think that will help in resolving the problem with illegal aliens obtaining drivers licenses. However, I view this as only a first step in doing something about illegal immigration and would like to suggest some other actions I feel Congress should consider.

Recently, Ireland passed a law so someone born in Ireland will not automatically be an Irish citizen. To be a citizen, a child born in Ireland must have at least one parent who is an Irish citizen. If we were to adopt a similar law it might stop some people from coming here illegally and having children who are then eligible for state and or federal aid.

So called “sanctuary cities,” where the city officials will not allow the police to arrest illegal immigrants based only on their immigration status, are a problem. One way to solve this problem would be to cut off federal funds for any state or local government that prevent their police from enforcing federal immigration law.

Illegal immigrants are costing us millions of dollars a year for medical services and public education. Why not pass a law requiring medical facilities and schools to ask for a federally approved form of identification or proof of immigration status. If the medical facility or school did not do so they would loose federal aid. Send the patient or student a bill for the services and if they do not pay, send the bill to the government of their country. If the country does not pay, cut federal aid to that country.

I’m getting a little tired of paying taxes to support someone who is in this country illegally. That money could be better spent on our own citizens and those who have entered the country legally.

Thank you for your time.
was one of your ancestors a native american. if not, then you should be an illegal immigrant.

It is cheaper to give them free health and education than not to.
bingo! its the same logic we use when giving education and healthcare to our own people. why would the logic break down when dealing with immigrants.

I agree with you. I didn't advocate not providing health care and education. What I said is they or their government should reimburse us for the cost of providing those essential services to illegal aliens. Knowing they can not afford it I see nothing wrong with charging their government for those services. Do you?
ok then. tax immigrants the same way americans are taxed. they are willing to pay their share. they still have enough to live off of. under current laws they wont pay taxes because the dont want to get deported. people like you are the only ones stopping them.

The us are the citizens of the US. Medical care and education for illegal immigrants costs local, state, and federal government millions of dollars a year. This is money that could be better spent on our own citizens.
So could the millions of dollars the local, state, and federal government squander recklessly because they have no need for any kind of financial responsibility whatsoever, they can just raise taxes and have more money to squander...

Trust me, if they weren't wasting money on illegal immigrants, they'd just find something else to waste the money on, it's what the government does best.

Actually, most illegals stay away from any building that screams government, like a hospital or welfare office. Yet they need healthcare, because if they get sick, others do too.
I don't know where you guys live, but I used to live in San Diego, where this was a very big issue. Yet people did not complain too much, because they were so vital in many industries, doing unskilled labor. Here in Kansas, where I now live, there aren't anywhere near the same number of brown people, yet people bitch about the problem alot more. I find that a bit ironic.
Should people come here illegally? No, it is against the law. Can I blame them for coming here? After visitng places like Tijuana, no, I can not.
I am glad that you have chosen to become active in the political process, but I do wonder how much this issue has really affected you. Please respond and let me know.

Before you send this letter, I've a couple of completely unsolicited suggestions.


I am writing to thank Congress for enacting the “Real ID Act” to set the standards for federally acceptable identification.
Don't write to congress in general, but write to the people who specifically represent you: the two senators from your state and your representative in the house. Make sure to address them by their title in your letters. Also, find out how they voted on the act, as different phrasing of your letter will be required if they voted against.

I think that will help in resolving the problem with illegal aliens obtaining drivers licenses. However, I view this as only a first step in doing something about illegal immigration and would like to suggest some other actions I feel Congress should consider.
Remove the references to 'I' here. They know it's you talking and your opinion will sound stronger.
i.e.: This act will help in resolving the problem with illegal aliens obtaining drivers licenses. However, this is only a first step ...



Recently, Ireland passed a law so someone born in Ireland will not automatically be an Irish citizen. To be a citizen, a child born in Ireland must have at least one parent who is an Irish citizen. If we were to adopt a similar law it might stop some people from coming here illegally and having children who are then eligible for state and or federal aid.

So called “sanctuary cities,” where the city officials will not allow the police to arrest illegal immigrants based only on their immigration status, are a problem. One way to solve this problem would be to cut off federal funds for any state or local government that prevent their police from enforcing federal immigration law.

I have to tell you flat out, I've never heard of a "sanctuary city" before your letter. Try to cite an example here, but make sure there is evidence to support this claim. The best example, if you are writing to the people I suggested, is to cite a "sanctuary city" in your state.


Illegal immigrants are costing us millions of dollars a year for medical services and public education. Why not pass a law requiring medical facilities and schools to ask for a federally approved form of identification or proof of immigration status. If the medical facility or school did not do so they would loose federal aid. Send the patient or student a bill for the services and if they do not pay, send the bill to the government of their country. If the country does not pay, cut federal aid to that country.


This paragraph has a bad case of the "ifs". Try rewriting a few.

When you write a question ("why not...", make sure that
a) a similarly phrased statement will better support your position.
b) the question is answered immediately
c) that when you must ask a question, use a '?' for punctuation.


I’m getting a little tired of paying taxes to support someone who is in this country illegally. That money could be better spent on our own citizens and those who have entered the country legally.

Thank you for your time.
Try to avoid weak statement. Don't be 'getting' 'a little' tired. Instead: I'm tired of paying taxes to...

I am writing to thank Congress for enacting the “Real ID Act” to set the standards for federally acceptable identification. I think that will help in resolving the problem with illegal aliens obtaining drivers licenses. However, I view this as only a first step in doing something about illegal immigration and would like to suggest some other actions I feel Congress should consider.

Recently, Ireland passed a law so someone born in Ireland will not automatically be an Irish citizen. To be a citizen, a child born in Ireland must have at least one parent who is an Irish citizen. If we were to adopt a similar law it might stop some people from coming here illegally and having children who are then eligible for state and or federal aid.

So called “sanctuary cities,” where the city officials will not allow the police to arrest illegal immigrants based only on their immigration status, are a problem. One way to solve this problem would be to cut off federal funds for any state or local government that prevent their police from enforcing federal immigration law.

Illegal immigrants are costing us millions of dollars a year for medical services and public education. Why not pass a law requiring medical facilities and schools to ask for a federally approved form of identification or proof of immigration status. If the medical facility or school did not do so they would loose federal aid. Send the patient or student a bill for the services and if they do not pay, send the bill to the government of their country. If the country does not pay, cut federal aid to that country.

I’m getting a little tired of paying taxes to support someone who is in this country illegally. That money could be better spent on our own citizens and those who have entered the country legally.

Thank you for your time.

So - your big problem is money?

You resent having to pay for the medical care/education, etc... for those who are not natives to your nation?

So - why are you NOT objecting to the fact that the government KEEPS medical costs ridiculously high? Drugs made IN THIS COUNTRY are sold to Canada at a profit... then re-imported back into the states at a third or half of the price they sell for here.

If you concentrated your efforts on the drug economy in this country, you might actually be able to do something that would reduce costs.

Instituting MORE controls over immigration and border-crossings will only INCREASE the cost to the American tax payer.

So - your big problem is money?

You resent having to pay for the medical care/education, etc... for those who are not natives to your nation?

So - why are you NOT objecting to the fact that the government KEEPS medical costs ridiculously high? Drugs made IN THIS COUNTRY are sold to Canada at a profit... then re-imported back into the states at a third or half of the price they sell for here.

If you concentrated your efforts on the drug economy in this country, you might actually be able to do something that would reduce costs.

Instituting MORE controls over immigration and border-crossings will only INCREASE the cost to the American tax payer.
You're expecting most Americans to be able to think of rational solutions to their problems in this no thought, quick fix, blame someone else society? Of course he's going to praise something that'll only cost him more money as a way to reduce costs, because it lays the blame on Mexicans for the problems and appears to do something about it, and that's all they need to be made happy and oblivious to the fact that it accomplishes nothing but giving them further excuse to steal more money from the tax payers.

You're expecting most Americans to be able to think of rational solutions to their problems in this no thought, quick fix, blame someone else society? Of course he's going to praise something that'll only cost him more money as a way to reduce costs, because it lays the blame on Mexicans for the problems and appears to do something about it, and that's all they need to be made happy and oblivious to the fact that it accomplishes nothing but giving them further excuse to steal more money from the tax payers.

It seems to be the need to be doing 'something'... rather than to be doing the RIGHT thing.

So - if you can't work out how to deal with the costs incurred within (and, in this case, without) a minority... you just attack the minority.

It didn't work in Germany. It won't work here.

A couple of points to consider Celtlund:

Lots of good food for thought there. Maybe you and I should go to Congress. I'm sure we could come up with some reasonable plan to solve the problems of illegal immigration. :)

I am writing to thank Congress for enacting the “Real ID Act” to set the standards for federally acceptable identification. I think that will help in resolving the problem with illegal aliens obtaining drivers licenses. However, I view this as only a first step in doing something about illegal immigration and would like to suggest some other actions I feel Congress should consider.

Recently, Ireland passed a law so someone born in Ireland will not automatically be an Irish citizen. To be a citizen, a child born in Ireland must have at least one parent who is an Irish citizen. If we were to adopt a similar law it might stop some people from coming here illegally and having children who are then eligible for state and or federal aid.

So called “sanctuary cities,” where the city officials will not allow the police to arrest illegal immigrants based only on their immigration status, are a problem. One way to solve this problem would be to cut off federal funds for any state or local government that prevent their police from enforcing federal immigration law.

Illegal immigrants are costing us millions of dollars a year for medical services and public education. Why not pass a law requiring medical facilities and schools to ask for a federally approved form of identification or proof of immigration status. If the medical facility or school did not do so they would loose federal aid. Send the patient or student a bill for the services and if they do not pay, send the bill to the government of their country. If the country does not pay, cut federal aid to that country.

I’m getting a little tired of paying taxes to support someone who is in this country illegally. That money could be better spent on our own citizens and those who have entered the country legally.

Thank you for your time.

Settting aside the many flaws in your irrational hatred of immigrants, there is a slight hitch to your plan: the U.S. Constitution.

14th Amendment:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

And you would hold the US government responsible for every debt incurred by a US national overseas?

Methinks xenophobia has taken over your senses.

Lots of good food for thought there. Maybe you and I should go to Congress. I'm sure we could come up with some reasonable plan to solve the problems of illegal immigration. :)

Which seems like a waste of a Congress visit, when you COULD be coming up with plans to solve REAL problems.

*snip*2. It would be amusing to see California lose its Federal Funds because of the actions of their legislature in preventing the enforcement of U.S. Immigration law. the savings from that could be turned to increasing funding support to expedite Legal immigration activities. (California is one of those states that relies heavily on Federal Funding to support its economy...)
I expect folks in hell will be wearing woolens before that happens-Calfornia is a massively powerful State, and while automatically-Democrat (and thereby, politically not-in-play), it's got serious influence in Media and other major power-bases. Federal Courts have already ruled that Los Angeles owns the western-slope watershed of the Rocky Mountains in all but name.
The moral: "Fat Chance". *snip*


Setting aside the many ridiculous canards above, are you aware that California pays more in federal taxes than it receives in federal funds?

Kind of blows your theory all to hell, doesn't it?

Before you send this letter, I've a couple of completely unsolicited suggestions.

Yes, I do plan on sending it only to Senators Inhoffe, Senator Coburn, and Congressman Sullivan. Thanks for the input on all the other items.

So - your big problem is money?

No, illeagal immigration as clearly stated.

Want to get rid of the illegals? I hope you're ready to pay $8 for an apple.

The simple way to eliminate illegal immigration is to make it all legal.

No, illeagal immigration as clearly stated.

You need to rethink your letter, then.

As it is, you finish it by complaining about how you are tired of taxes - which makes it seem that the focus of your message is financial.

In fact - of a 5 paragraph document... 2 paragraphs are introduction... and the remaining three ALL complain about the 'cost' of immigrants.

You should really think about changing the focus of your missive, if you honestly are not worried about the money.


That assumed: (although I do not actually believe it):

What is 'wrong' with illegal immigration?

Recently, Ireland passed a law so someone born in Ireland will not automatically be an Irish citizen.
I voted against that. :)

ok then. tax immigrants the same way americans are taxed. they are willing to pay their share. they still have enough to live off of. under current laws they wont pay taxes because the dont want to get deported. people like you are the only ones stopping them.

I live in an area where there are a lot of immigrants and if they are legal (meaning they have a SS card, etc.) they are paying taxes on their earnings if they're not legal they risk deportation when caught, which happens more often than one would think.

These people are working the jobs that 70% of the so called "americans" in this area won't work. You know the ones, hard labor low wage, or fastfood.

Some of these people are setting up house not in rentals, but buying houses that used to be rentals, then they fix them up and live there. Neighborhoods are improving, kids are playing outside again. Unlike just a few years ago when the "americans" living in these houses were killing each other over a property line, or whether the dog of one, killed the cat of another.

Some of these people behave better than the so called americans here. I for one am happy to see them come to the United States they at least appreciate what they have here unlike the "americans". :mad:

Oh, and by the way, my familiy came to the US, in the 1890s, from Germany. And even the Native Americans came here through Asia and down the west coast. So anybody who lives in North and South America came here from some other place in the world.

What is 'wrong' with illegal immigration?

1. A country has a right to set it's immigration policy and control the number of people it lets into the country.

2. It is illegal. In other words it is a crime. I do not condone criminal activity.

Who is this "us"? They don't cost me a dime... are you just spouting out the same old talking heads babble?he is watching too much CNN ( racist TVnetwork)
http://www.americanpolitics.com/WOWloudobbs.jpg

You're expecting most Americans to be able to think of rational solutions to their problems in this no thought, quick fix, blame someone else society? Of course he's going to praise something that'll only cost him more money as a way to reduce costs, because it lays the blame on Mexicans for the problems and appears to do something about it, and that's all they need to be made happy and oblivious to the fact that it accomplishes nothing but giving them further excuse to steal more money from the tax payers.

Spot on.

Do I detect just the slightest hint of "fear of the not-quite-so-white man" underlying this whole debate?

I agree that if you today removed ALL illegal immigrants from your country, tomorrow you would wish them back (as long as they don't live in your suburbia).

Why is there such a difference between a European settler/immigrant and a Mexican (who are to a large part of Spanish descent, at least culturally) immigrant/settler. Why does a country need to control how many people immigrate?
Doesn't free market economic theory suggest that it will all balance out eventually, with each country the same (pretty high) standard of living?
And isn't the USA the country that can afford to take in the highest number of immigrants without worrying about overstretching its resources?

Don't build a large laser cannon to shoot down evil russian/chinese(/mexican?) nukes, and you have trillions of dollars to spend on a)integrating all the illegal immigrants there could possibly come or b)giving mexico the help to become a country that people don't want to leave anymore.

And if you want to decrease taxes, it would be far easier to just stop spending on that huge, blown-out bureaucracy called the US Military.

2. It is illegal. In other words it is a crime. I do not condone criminal activity.

So the law is your moral compass?

1. A country has a right to set it's immigration policy and control the number of people it lets into the country.

2. It is illegal. In other words it is a crime. I do not condone criminal activity.

Neatly avoided.

You raised the spectres of legality and nationalism... neither of which actually answers the question.

So... back to the question.

What is 'wrong' with illegal immigration?

The only reason we have so far, is that you don't like paying taxes.

Neatly avoided.

You raised the spectres of legality and nationalism... neither of which actually answers the question.

So... back to the question.

What is 'wrong' with illegal immigration?

The only reason we have so far, is that you don't like paying taxes.

Actually I would count the naive faith in the law as possibly half a reason. The "it's illegal, therefore it's wrong" argument stills gets some play surprisingly enough.

Before you send this letter, I've a couple of completely unsolicited suggestions.
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Don't write to congress in general, but write to the people who specifically represent you: the two senators from your state and your representative in the house. Make sure to address them by their title in your letters. Also, find out how they voted on the act, as different phrasing of your letter will be required if they voted against.
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Remove the references to 'I' here. They know it's you talking and your opinion will sound stronger.
i.e.: This act will help in resolving the problem with illegal aliens obtaining drivers licenses. However, this is only a first step ...

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I have to tell you flat out, I've never heard of a "sanctuary city" before your letter. Try to cite an example here, but make sure there is evidence to support this claim. The best example, if you are writing to the people I suggested, is to cite a "sanctuary city" in your state.
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This paragraph has a bad case of the "ifs". Try rewriting a few.

When you write a question ("why not...", make sure that
a) a similarly phrased statement will better support your position.
b) the question is answered immediately
c) that when you must ask a question, use a '?' for punctuation.
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Try to avoid weak statement. Don't be 'getting' 'a little' tired. Instead: I'm tired of paying taxes to...
hehe

Good stuff

I wouldn't worry about it too much, his congressman and senator will ignore his letter probably. I'm sure they get tons of letters from people completely out of touch with reality and ignore them. They probably have some sort of form letter they send to every one who writes to them. It will make him feel special. ;)

Actually I would count the naive faith in the law as possibly half a reason. The "it's illegal, therefore it's wrong" argument stills gets some play surprisingly enough.

I'd like to be able to believe that... I really would.

And yet, if the government relaxed controls on such immigrants... effectively legalising such immigration, I suspect this issue would still be being debated... because of the taxes (as mentioned) if for no other reason.

I am a little suspicious that the REAL thrust of the attack might actually be just because they are 'foreigners', however.

That's why I wanted a REAL explanation of what is perceived as 'wrong' about illegal immigration.

So the law is your moral compass?

No, my moral compass inclueds respect for the law.

So... back to the question.

What is 'wrong' with illegal immigration?

Again, it is illegal. It is a crime.

No, my moral compass inclueds respect for the law.

It's funny you should say that, because mine doesn't. :D

I am a little suspicious that the REAL thrust of the attack might actually be just because they are 'foreigners', however.

I do not have a problem with immigration. I have no problem with people coming to this country legally be they immigrants, migrant workers, students, or tourists. The problem I have is with all illegal immigrants. If people want to come to this country let them do so legally.

The us are the citizens of the US. Medical care and education for illegal immigrants costs local, state, and federal government millions of dollars a year. This is money that could be better spent on our own citizens.

Problem is, all the people who are against immigration are also against the government spending this money on our own citizens. Corporate subsidies yes, people, no.

I do not have a problem with immigration. I have no problem with people coming to this country legally be they immigrants, migrant workers, students, or tourists. The problem I have is with all illegal immigrants. If people want to come to this country let them do so legally.

If your problem is with the illegality of the action, surely the solution is to make all immigration legal?

Again, it is illegal. It is a crime.

So, anything that is illegal is on your list of 'stuff-to-write-to-the-powers-that-be' for?

So - that North Carolina law that says it's illegal to live in co-habitation... you are no doubt writing to your senator about that, too?

What about tattooing, done by unlicensed persons?

Is that on your hot list, too?

I don't 'buy' illegality as your reasoning.

The whole focus of the first post was about how much illegal immigration COSTS... that seems far more likely as the reason to me... and yet you won't admit it.

I do not have a problem with immigration. I have no problem with people coming to this country legally be they immigrants, migrant workers, students, or tourists. The problem I have is with all illegal immigrants. If people want to come to this country let them do so legally.

How convinient. I think more politicians should take this tack on medical marijuana. "I have no problem with people using marijuana to treat their otherwise untreatable illness, what I do have a problem with is their illegal use of it. If they want to use this illegal drug they should do so legally."

I do not have a problem with immigration. I have no problem with people coming to this country legally be they immigrants, migrant workers, students, or tourists. The problem I have is with all illegal immigrants. If people want to come to this country let them do so legally.

So, provided they come across the border legally, you don't mind your taxes paying for their medical help, education, feeding their children, etc?

It really IS just the illegal immigrants that you begrudge?

I do not have a problem with immigration. I have no problem with people coming to this country legally be they immigrants, migrant workers, students, or tourists. The problem I have is with all illegal immigrants. If people want to come to this country let them do so legally.

How convinient. I think more politicians should take this tack on medical marijuana. "I have no problem with people using marijuana to treat their otherwise untreatable illness, what I do have a problem with is their illegal use of it. If they want to use this illegal drug they should do so legally."

The problem is that legal immigration is not just a matter of standing in the right line and getting a stamp on a form. We have arbitrary quotas limiting how many people from each country may move here, but we have no quote on how quickly we can suck their resources away. It is the ultimate in hypocrisy for a nation built on genocide and expansionism to now claim that people from other countries have no right to live here too.

So, provided they come across the border legally, you don't mind your taxes paying for their medical help, education, feeding their children, etc?

It really IS just the illegal immigrants that you begrudge?

If they come here legally, they will be entitled to those things. They will also be paying taxes themselves. Yes, it really is just the illegals.

It is the ultimate in hypocrisy for a nation built on genocide and expansionism to now claim that people from other countries have no right to live here too.

Sorry, I just had to add this quote:

If we had these immigration controls back when this country was ours, none of y'all would be here to bitch about Mexicans.

Preach on, brah!

If they come here legally, they will be entitled to those things. They will also be paying taxes themselves. Yes, it really is just the illegals.

And your ONLY concern, is that those illegals are here illegally?

One thing for people to think about:

A large percentage of immigrants to California are illegal.

The cost of supporting new immigrants to California, illegal and otherwise, is 3 Billion dollars.

The amount of money that immigrants provide the Californian economy is 100 Billion dollars.

In California alone, immigrants provide 97 billion more dollars to the rest of the state than they cost.

Curbing immigration into the United States would devastate the economy of the American Southwest and likely the country as a whole.

If they come here legally, they will be entitled to those things. They will also be paying taxes themselves. Yes, it really is just the illegals.

So you would advocate the decriminilisation of all immigration?

The us are the citizens of the US. Medical care and education for illegal immigrants costs local, state, and federal government millions of dollars a year. This is money that could be better spent on our own citizens.

ANd save tens of millions per year by providing inexpensive farm labor throughout the U.S. Why do you think Bush likes illegal immigrants so much? They're corporate friendly. :p

It's funny you should say that, because mine doesn't. :D

YAY! :D

One thing for people to think about:

A large percentage of immigrants to California are illegal.

The cost of supporting new immigrants to California, illegal and otherwise, is 3 Billion dollars.

The amount of money that immigrants provide the Californian economy is 100 Billion dollars.

In California alone, immigrants provide 97 billion more dollars to the rest of the state than they cost.

Curbing immigration into the United States would devastate the economy of the American Southwest and likely the country as a whole.
Don't expect him to listen to reason, like most Americans he's willfully oblivious to reality and chooses to live in his own little world where everything is black and white and easily solved. Why do you think Americans elected George Bush twice? Because he lives in his own little world where everything is black and white and easily solved, and they can relate to that.

I’m getting a little tired of paying taxes to support someone who is in this country illegally. That money could be better spent on our own citizens and those who have entered the country legally.

We still have people who think like that here in Germany, and they have some in the UK. They are the ones electing the NPD or the BNP, or other such parties with slightly different names but always that big 'N'. That N stands for "Nationalism", a word that made up part of what was once contracted into... guess what? Nazis.

I hear that many still believe that, out of National Socialism, it was the Socialism bit that caused the whole mess. Frankly, that's bull. We have socialism here now, and it works fine. It's the Nationalism part that was the reason for those atrocities. The same Nationalism that causes old conservatives to use the word "[Insert nationality] Citizen" as if it referred to one chosen by the gods, to say "immigrant" with an inflection that smacks of sub-human, and to mutter crankily about the "good old times" when we didn't have to put up with all these outsider folks.

It's really amazing that you can't see the way your country is going.

So you would advocate the decriminilisation of all immigration?

Am I going to get an answer any time soon?

Am I going to get an answer any time soon?

I suspect not.

If you look at my last few posts, I've got him painted into a corner, where he either has to admit to being motivated by the money, or by nationalist urges...

OR...

He has to admit that decriminalisation answers all the problems he's claimed, at the least cost.

Since your post ALSO forces that admission upon him, I don't think we'll be seeing much in the way of imminent responses.

1 english guinea says he writes and posts the letter anyway.

1 english guinea says he writes and posts the letter anyway.

Oh, indeed.

Never let good sense get in the way of a good rant, I say.

And why spread freedom, when you can spread hate, disharmony and destruction?

It's really amazing that you can't see the way your country is going.
No, really, it's not that amazing, I've lived in America my whole life and I pretty much expect most people in this country to be oblivious to the way the real world works, because they're purposely kept that way and must take steps themselves, steps most are too lazy/don't care to take, to educate themselves in this regard. We're purposely kept ignorant so there's not enough people out there who're smart enough to figure out what's really going on and fight against it and the few who do figure it out are blindly attacked by the ignorant masses because they believe everything they're told to believe and don't like those beliefs to be challenged, because that'd require them to actually think about their beliefs. This applies equally to Americans and Christians, and since most Americans are Christians, they've got two institutions training them to be willfully ignorant and obedient. It's pretty depressing really.

I am writing to thank Congress for enacting the “Real ID Act” to set the standards for federally acceptable identification. I think that will help in resolving the problem with illegal aliens obtaining drivers licenses. However, I view this as only a first step in doing something about illegal immigration and would like to suggest some other actions I feel Congress should consider.

Recently, Ireland passed a law so someone born in Ireland will not automatically be an Irish citizen. To be a citizen, a child born in Ireland must have at least one parent who is an Irish citizen. If we were to adopt a similar law it might stop some people from coming here illegally and having children who are then eligible for state and or federal aid.


Thank you for your time.

Ah my silly Yankee friend, the 'irish citizen' must have lived IRL for 3 years!
Sure why not include that all potential immigrants must be nuetered to ensure they don't become illegal and the bastards reproduce!